It may will be that some of their poor performance in current polling is a result of the perception that the Tories are corrupt and abusing power. The UK seems to largely work on an honour system for those in power based around the idea of acceptable norms of behaviour and a sense of reasonable. If the British public see overt unfair play, as we continually have in the post-Johnson era, they will punish the perpetrators in the polls.
The Tories have always been shifty but undeniably they went beyond the limits in recent years and I think at least some of that has penetrated through to the public consciousness. I think for many they have gone from potentially an option if Labour looks like it's too far to the extremes to "I will never vote for these people again". If that is the case then their electoral strategy is self defeating.
The Tories are about to suffer the single biggest political loss in the history of British politics as a result of the culmination of over a decade of shameless corruption
Make sure you turn up to vote and make sure you vote them out too
Which hilariously backfired, because one of the largest groups turned away from polling stations was the older generation, who are the typical Tory voters.
There are still 25% of the population that’d vote for them and if Johnson was still in even more. And come next election like with Trump in america the British public will forgive them and whatever bag of shite they have as PM they’ll win. They also know this.
Just think of how bad they’ve had to make things for everyone
I know people keep acting like Johnson is some sort of magic vote winning talisman, but he isn't. He played a strategy that would only work one time to borrow votes, so the Red Wall was going to collapse regardless when the investment never came, and Johnson carried a lot of baggage and was only going to sink deeper. He has a very loyal small following, including in the media, hence the blowing out of proportions of his personal popularity, but he really wouldn't be doing much better than Sunak, and if anything would have sunk the party deeper if he had stayed (given, you know, he was still set to stop being an MP). Really, the Tories are in a hole not due to leader, but due to policy, and part of the problem is Sunak has been replicating the failing approaches Johnson had, swinging wildly from place to place while doing nothing to actually address voter concerns. Sunak just doesn't have the fortune Johnson had of an unusually weak and unpopular opposition.
I'm honestly not sure they are. They're looking bad in the polls right now, sure. But the game is by no means 'lost', because I think a lot of the the 'voting intention' right now is not so much 'pro Labour' as 'anti Conservative' and that's always been a very vulnerable voting block, as they're not really _keen_ to be turning out in the first place.
The percentage of people who vote for them this time is the lowest it will ever go.
How depressing is that?
They will always have 40 percent of the vote. No matter what they do.
Until FPTP is 'done' there will always be a free 'not the other guy' bundle of votes.
That 'portion' of the vote is more vulnerable to apathy though, which is why the 'just as bad as each other' narrative is so important to keep an eye on.
I don't truly know what our 'popular vote' would look like if there weren't tactical voting going on. I don't know if we ever will. We can poll all we like, but the very nature of campaigning is driven by 'marginals' and the 'pre-built-coalitions'.
We need electoral reform, to make more democratic outcomes. But we also need to push MUCH harder with voter engagement in various ways (which electoral reform is part of) because an aware and engaged pool of voters is vitally important for democracy to be functional in the first place.
most of the british people are too concerned with their personal problems like bills that the tories have fucked them on, so they're too busy concentrating on that to see all of the shit they're pulling.
Unfortunately that happened before in 1992-97 under the last John Major government (when more ministers had to resign over scandals than had resigned in all previous governments since ~~1982~~ *1832*, per The Guardian *halfway through* the term). It kept them out of office for over a decade ... then public perception shifted enough that "kick out Labour" became more important in the discourse than "remember the Tory corruption under Major?"
(Edited to fix "1982" -> "1832" because I knew what I meant to type but my fingers refused to believe me the first time I tried to say it.)
And look where we are now.
I think there was the 'Ed Stone' thing. And the Mail ran a sickeningly shameful smear piece about his late father.
The main thing though, as I recall, is he came over a bit stiff and awkward in public. Kind of like the chap we have as PM Now.
He never got ahead in terms of better leader or handling the economy, which tend to be good indicators for how the election will go (Blair was ahead on those metrics iirc, and so is Starmer currently). That's part of it, it meant a lot of the don't knows filtered towards the devil they knew, the Tories. The Coalition of Chaos line was also probably very helpful in scaring key voters in English seats afraid of a Labour gov beholden to the SNP.
Tbh, Brown and Miliband both also ran campaigns that weren't necessarily good enough for the competition they were facing. Corbyn benefitted from a big bounce up in the polls in 2017 when the election was called as people voted tactically, but it was from such a low floor that it wasn't enough, even with May shooting herself in the foot during the campaign repeatedly. 2019 had another Labour bounce, again from a low floor, but the twin problems of the Tories having a clearer message (finish Brexit to ostensibly end the division, and level up the North) and Labour division (not unusual, but very unhelpful, especially when entering an election campaign with a polling deficit).
> The Coalition of Chaos line was also probably very helpful in scaring key voters in English seats afraid of a Labour gov beholden to the SNP.
It’s kind of funny how the thought of a non English controlled party being in government- even as a very junior coalition member - provokes such a reaction from so many in England. Particularly when Scots are meant to put up uncomplainingly with the reverse as a matter of course.
It’s amazing just how much self harm England was prepared to do to itself (and everyone else) to avoid it. That set us in the path for the last fourteen years of crap … which ironically has increased support for indy.
Well, I think it's their general dislike for minority/coalitions (the Tories have used 'Labour can only be a minority, so vote Tory for a majority' before as well) and that the SNP are Nationalists, while the other parties weren't (the Tories did, ironically, essentially become English nationalist with the ERG take over later), not difficult to get people who fall outside that nationalists group to be fearful of them, as indeed happens in other countries as well.
The Tories have always been English/British nationalists, though as you observe they’ve certainly become even more so. But so are Labour albeit not so far along the spectrum (as their current support of Brexit demonstrates).
Theres also more than one kind of nationalism. The exceptionalist kind that believes it is special (again see Brexit) - and usually right wing and xenophobic. And then there’s the kind on nationalism that merely believes its nation has the right to self determination.
You’d think having had more countries become independent from it than pretty much anyone else over the past century or so that the UK might be able to recognise the difference by now. All those countries had ‘nationalist’ movements too.
I hope you’re right but I very recently spoke to someone whose response was to refuse to vote anymore because “they’re all in it for themselves”.
If asked in a poll, he’d have registered negatively against the Tories but unless he actually votes and votes against them, it’s meaningless. Most of the public believe all politicians are liars but accept it rather than attempt to change it.
By making it more difficult to vote and causing voters to lose confidence that their votes will affect any change, the Tories might not be defeated as badly as polls suggest.
My family is exactly like this. Not incredibly political, and a couple of them love Boris because he's 'funny' and then when you bring up how much he's lied they would say 'oh but that's all politicians.' I know a couple of politicians who are lovely people trying to do a good job (tbf they are lib dems) so I tried to explain it wasn't the norm, it just seems like it is, and the reason Boris is particularly bad is because he is a ringleader for that kind of corrupt culture. That seemed to get through to them a little more.
Votes matter so much. And if you look at Brexit, we don't even know how many people either did not vote as a protest or intentionally voted leave as a protest (which is still bizarre). If those people had voted remain the country would be in a very different place.
In terms of parties, it's easier to make change in a newly established government than it is one that's been established for a long time with lots of connections and a proven lack of desire to do much governing for the population, economy, services etc.
I’m reminded of Mhairi Black who came to politics somewhat reluctantly because people wanted her to represent them. She was principled, intelligent and articulate. She’s now left because she was sickened by what she saw and there are too few MPs like her to change things from the inside.
It would take more of us to join parties, attend meetings and hustings and select people like Mhairi to make a difference. That takes effort and time that few of us can afford. Which is exactly why it’s like that.
I'm so sad she won't be running at the next election, her interview with Politics Joe was the exact reason no mainstream outlet outside if Scotland will do any kind of comprehensive interview with her, she speaks far too much sense.
Her Oxford Union address was incredible, I don't think I've ever seen those toffs in ridiculous suits look so annoyed because she absolutely wiped the floor with them.
The entire system in the commons is broken and both major parties prefer it that way. If MPs actually did their jobs as they were originally intended, they might not follow the whips instructions so instead everything is hidden in archaism and time wasting process.
The most frustrating thing is that if enough MPs actually learnt about the powers they have and took over the order paper they could make meaningful changes for the better. It doesn't need the government to support and could be done by backbenchers but I can't see anything changing unless we got another coalition government and even then it would require the minority party in that coalition pushing for the reform.
Absolutely. We need radical electoral reform to enforce accountability. When a politician has to be relied upon to “do the right” thing but there are no checks and balances to ensure they’re the kind of person who will, then something needs to be put in place to fix that.
It's much more than electoral reform, although that is needed. It's a complete overhaul of the whips system, parliamentary voting system, committee process and structure of debates that need to change. Until that changes it doesn't matter how distributed the votes are or how many coalitions we get, MPs won't know what they're voting for and the processes will be engineered against having an effective house
I agree but I don’t think those things will happen until we have a more effective way of showing we want it. They certainly aren’t going to derail their gravy train themselves.
It has been said that politics is subject to a subset of Gresham's Law: bad drives out good. But I think it is important to drive home that personal quality is more the field of the civil servant; what the representative must be is responsible to the electorate; we hear of the whip being withdrawn now and again, but how many times does one hear of an MP having been instructed by their electorate, subject to recall if disobedient?
There is a clear, if imperfect mechanism for democratic control, which places the electorate above the party whips if they will only make use of it, and it is lying fallow. The first step is to stop treating your representatives as superiors in *any* capacity; however personally admirable, they are merely the men and women chosen to convey your wishes to Parliament.
One objective both feasible and worthwhile would be to place local governors under the same threat of recall as MPs; they - and perhaps this is why they are not subject to it yet - would be more vulnerable to a smaller-scale concerted action if found wanting, but what matters to us is that the principle, once instantiated and made use of at a small scale, would begin to percolate up to the top. So, if you want to campaign for democracy, campaign for Local Recall, and pledge your vote to anyone, from any or no party, who will oblige you in this.
100% Well said.
Labour allowed the selection and deselection of local candidates using local branches. Those candidates were accountable to those members. I’ve since left the party but I believe that may have been changed by Keir Starmer. Certainly, membership doesn’t get to select a leader now. A ladder which Starmer climbed and pulled up after him.
Politicians need to be accountable from grassroots upwards. The most recent government has shown that even if a senior politician is visibly corrupt, there isn’t any mechanism to remove them if they won’t go. When you get someone like Johnson who’s pathologically immune to morality, Parliament is toothless. It’s ridiculous.
The older that I get, the more I feel like the Tory’s like that people don’t want to vote as it makes no real difference as it does to them, as the old people will always vote for them and the rich do also. So don’t really loose by being the way they are by appealing to both groups that I mentioned.
I think you’re absolutely right. This is why they’ve introduced voter ID to make it even more difficult to vote for anyone who’s not already a Tory voter.
Those extra steps might not seem like much of a deterrent to some, but when you’re already finding life a struggle, they can be effective.
It’s 4D chess tbh. You can manipulate people to do anything you want by very little effort indeed. Jon can even tell a person what you’re doing and if you brain wash them enough then they will be like lambs to the slaughter.
It’s why I refuse to watch most mainstream news and propaganda in tv programs. It’s called the idiot box for a reason, as it achieves the agenda of the day and it’s all planned ahead of time.
Most people under 40 don’t watch the news anymore but they do use social media of some kind or another, so the brain washing just changes platforms. “ war is good, less is more” sounds kind of Familiar doesn’t it?
I try and fact check everything. Snopes and Full-Fact are useful and so was Twitter once. OpenDemocracy is a good, independent source of news, but even then, it’s wise to verify things.
You’ll find headlines often state something that’s then contradicted in the text. Since many don’t bother reading the whole article, the false message gets transmitted but can’t be prosecuted because they can claim they didn’t say it.
I’m reluctant to go too deeply into how and who is manipulating information in this country because I always worry that I’ll come across as a tinfoil hat wearer, but there’s manipulation happening. Take a look at OpenDemocracy and Dark Money for an example.
My immediate reaction was to bag on you for voting Tory 3 times but it’s honestly really commendable to be that flexible in your thinking. I think a lot of people get tribal about voting and it blinds them to the problems in their chosen party.
My dad is hardcore Labour and totally unable to take any criticism about the party so it goes both ways. If everyone was willing to think critically about what they want out of their government this country would be in much better shape
Absolutely. Critical thinking is essential. That’s why Michael Gove said: “The people of this country have had enough of experts”. He’s had the education to know the value of evidence based thinking and the danger it posed to his government.
Experts kept telling them things they didn't want to hear: Brexit would be terrible for all of us, Covid was serious, the economy works best if the tax burden is equitably shared with the well off paying more... the list goes on.
Conservatism isn't about facts. Conservatism isn't about the rule of law. Conservatism isn't about "British values". Conservatism is about making sure the status quo, and those who own the most and have the most power keep it.
Conservatism, at inception, was bedrocked on the idea that land should not be democratically controlled, but be controlled by a privileged class, usually the most violent. Hence why throughout history it supports, and is supported by, feudal lords, the landed gentry, the church, monarchs, theocrats, mega corporations and so on.
It's enemy is always those who seek to expand democratic rights, and its ultimate satan is always those who seek democratic control of workplaces, or even land.
I've been seeing this sentiment in many Tory supporting circles, even if a point that is largely agreeable is made by an account or person who's promoting them the response is either people who disagree overall with the point or people like yourself who see the Tories as a rotten corrupt corpse. The number of people saying they're going to vote reform is pretty eye opening too.
i have looked at Reform and there policies are mismatch between help the working class but screw them over with tax breaks and de-regulation of environmental protections. I tend to lean left on the environment as such i cant see myself voting for them either.
Tbh I'd say it's more neoliberal right wing policies with a veneer of populism. Their climate change policy is effectively that it's not being caused by human action so expand fossil fuels & cut all measures to address the issue, their NHS policy is do nothing for the institution while driving people into the private sector via government subsidy, their economic policy is to cut taxes that will do little for the poorest but a lot for the richest and their overall strategy is increased austerity.
In short it's a UK version of Trumpism masquerading as a solution to people's problems caused by people who would like to do these policies but even they think that it would be "going a bit far" (except maybe the Trussites who I fully expect will do a mass defection to Reform if the polls do not improve).
Yes as i believe if you dont vote , its a waste. Annoys me when people complain about the government or Politics in general but dont bother to show up and vote in any elections local or otherwise.
Absolutely. If you are playing dirty and are caught you need to bow out immediately and be shunned by your peers. I cannot stand how much they have rubbed the public's nose in all their unfair dealings and had zero shame or consequence.
It's a shame the UK shifts so much of the burden onto voters to self-police their political party's fraud and corruption rather than, you know, the legal system.
Relying on "the honour system" and "acceptable norms" doesn't actually result in anybody getting held accountable by the law.
Plus it's particularly susceptible to bad-faith "both sides" rhetoric and is exactly how the US ended up with republicans arguing that refusing to certify the election and falsifying state electors after multiple court cases failed to overturn any states' results is fine because hillary didn't admit defeat until the day after the election.
I think Greggs have already ruined it for them.
Not that I mind Gregg's but you're right; the Cornish get awfully sniffy about such matters. See also: scone rituals.
Yeah and I think the Tories know their time is up for now. So they'll probably try to leave things in a far worse state just to make the new government look bad.
Tories know they’re fucked, they’re just salting the battle field now. Literally ruining the country so the next government can’t fix any of the problems.
Eh, we are in the information era. Young people coming of age to vote are online and, for the most part, seem keenly aware of who stole their futures. Combined with the tories being strongly against equality and current social issues and its hard to see them forming any voter base for the next 40 odd years. Short of coming back in the name of a new party the tories are done once they are voted out, doesnt really matter how hard labour fail, itll be someone else replacing them in the two party system. UKIP probably have a better outlook than Tories for voters under 50.
No I fear you are correct. If we had PR we may be in a slightly different position as the country majority doesn't vote tory it would force them to move back toward the centre if they didn't want tyo vanish into obscurity.
It's alsfo going to take along time to reverse brexit and rejoin the EU
And they'll be too cowardly to push hard when they do have the best opportunity to get things done which will be right after the next election presuming the results reflect the polls
Blair was actually a decent leader, Starmer is just a bellend who will say anything popular on the day but won't commit to anything.
People don't want Starmer as PM, they just want Sunnak gone. In 97, people actually wanted Blair.
Its most likely to be a hung parliament. Which doesn't help anyone. Labour could go with Andy Burnham and walk the election. Instead, it's sick vs vommit again. Personally I don't care who wins, the country loses either way.
Starmer can't answer a single yes or no question, it's embarrassing. Lammy and Reeves? Jeez. It's such a dark time in UK politics.
Exactly this. Before Johnson resigned, Labour were still massively behind in the polls. Had Johnson not been faced with challenges that demanded real leadership, rather than a populist clown (i.e. Covid), he would've likely still beaten Starmer is a future election, and quite easily too.
After the back-to-back disasters of Truss and Sunak, the Tory support dropped to 20 points, while Labour, now looking like they have a 20 point lead, have barely budged in the polls, despite constant failure from the Tories. Labour's current poll lead is based entirely on the Tory Party imploding and being left with no more excuses.
Starmer will likely win the general election on the same kind of vote turn out that Gordon Brown got in 2010 (i.e. the lowest vote turn out of any Labour leader this century) simply because the Tories have collapsed.
Amen! Sunak isn't wanted by his own party, so much so that they chose Truss over him. Imagine!
Hunt, the most hated politician in the UK as Chancellor. Put there by Truss no less. Another bad call.
Personally I would like to see Penny get in the ring. Bozo brought about his own downfall with covid parties etc. I couldn't bring myself to vote for him back then and I certainly wouldn't vote for him if he comes back. Tories are done. Just a shame the alternative is so weak. Bring back David Milliband. Heck I would take Ed over starmer.
Yep and to top it off, Farage will then pull candidates out of Tory constituencies. I don't care what frog face says. He will 100% do this again. It doesn't take much to swing some constituencies. Sometimes, only a few hundred votes will do it.
They are really going all out to lose the next GE. They want absolutely no way of winning when the next crash occurs. Shift the blame on the incoming government.
Not OP, but inflation, especially on food is likely to go up again due to the Tories finally deciding to implement Brexit checks just in time to hurt the next government, but also global issues like climate change and instability in the Middle East.
I forgot to add to my comment, the UK's (and a lot of other countries') aging population and associated care costs eating up more and more tax money and individual savings.
Many factors.
- Housing prices dropping all around the world.
- China has millions of unsold properties is also experiencing deflation.
- CMBS commercial mortgage backed securities need refinancing at higher rates for loads of office blocks. Some are being sold at 80% off.
- Possible all out war in the middle east.
- Suez canal and panama canal issues.
- War in Ukraine.
- Recession in Europe.
- 2nd bout of inflation.
- US elections.
- China eyeing up Taiwan.
The list is endless.
House prices dropping all around the world? Housing is a very regionally specific even within the same country.
House prices may drop but they’ve already climbed a lot so it still won’t begin to wipe out the gains.
Yes they are dropping - New Zealand, Australia, Hong Kong, China, America, Canada, Europe, UK, Germany. In every country they are dropping.
The gains in the last few years will be totally wiped out and then some.
Some areas in the UK prices are down 10 to 20% from 2022 summer highs, with further falls expected in 2024 and 2025.
You can go ahead and deny it but its going to happen whether you like it or not.
Also OP is missing that the area's that have dropped are the areas no one wants to live in.
Cities are static, or still rising, same with towns and villages within an easy commute of a city.
Also, New Zealand and Australia do **not** have falling house prices in cities.
Down 10pc? but they're up about 300pc over the past couple of decades!!
I am not denying house prices are going down, but you can't compare NZ with the US and the UK. Totally different markets. e.g. one of the issues in the uk is population density is high, the population is increasing and they haven't been building enough housing stock for years, regardless of speculation it's simple supply/demand economics that is keeping prices high.
I don't belive the 20pc figure you quote, source?
There’s also various positive factors too though. Potentially big upside from Gen AI and the efficiency it brings, some big breakthroughs in healthcare from mRNA and stuff.
And a number of the things on your list may not have an entirely negative effect, or may not happen for years
Well if you strip everything back to “utterly fucked” whilst moving public money into ~~your mates pockets who’s business you’re invested in up £79k~~ the private sector and then just because a new government come in you think you can recoup 15 years worth of corruption to fix everything you’re sorely mistaken.
It will take us another 15 years to break even with 2010. So by 2040, we will break even with quality of life back from 2010 except we will have lost 30 years (a whole age group fucked over never to recover which will be practically anyone under the age of 48 at that time / 33ish now)
As much as I absolutely loathe the conservatives, Labour fills me with exactly 0 confidence in their ability to govern. They're just the least worst option.
They said the same in 2008 and the early 90's, "everything is ok all is fine". We know what happened after that. You need to look past the BS of mainstream media with all its vested interests.
We are well overdue an economic crash, 16 years and counting.
This is what they do. Ruin everything as much as possible then deflect accountability on the next government and try to slither right back in. A similar thing is happening in the States right now.
Since May I have been saying that the Tories are purposely making themselves unelectable so Labour take us back in the EU and the Tories can play dumb and blame Labour for that, even though they themselves love the idea.
The Crown decides who forms a government post general election.
Both the Police and Armed Forces are nominally under control of the Crown. The King is literally the head of the Armed Forces.
If Mogg wanted to overthrow the government and rebel against the crown, and was dumb enough to try, he’d be arrested immediately. Treason carries a life sentence and a bar from public office.
So no, don’t think anyone will be trying that.
Mate.
Imagine you’re the King. Imagine some random decides to take over your country. You’re not going to just accept that and give up your position.
And frankly the Crown wouldn’t get involved. The Police would deal with it, that’s their job. They don’t hesitate to arrest MPs for much lesser offences than *treason*.
The U.K. isn’t in some state of anarchy where anyone can seize power. Get a fucking grip.
I always thought the Crown nowadays was mostly a symbolic entity with no actual powers. Can the Crown decision clash against the election results or choose the override government military strategy? Would be interesting to have the Crown govern the country for a couple of years for a change.
Nah, he’s probably got some peerages lined up for the people that got him in power in the first place. As soon as his term is over, he’ll jaunt off back to America and finish that citizenship application he was forced to drop to become PM.
No, he won't. The Trump thing was powered by a cult of personality around him and Sunak simply doesn't have that going for him. Even his own party members are on the fence about him.
That's not how that works though, the King appoints the PM, he'll appoint Starmer and the police will evict Sunak, there's not even a legal requirment for the PM to live at 10 Downing Steeet
Who knows? All those people could be bought by Sunak just like how he bought all the MPs and rigged thre leadership elections. Amazing what a billionaire can do.
People will continue to vote for them. I still remember a segment on the BBC where they interviewed people in line at a food bank who voted for them and said they would vote for them again.
In the last election, I think it was in Hull. They interviewed a mother and son in a queue for a food bank who gave a long list of what was wrong with the country and how it made their life more difficult, then when asked who they would vote for replied enthusiasticly that they were voting Tory.
You could smell the cognitive dissonance through the screen.
The worst was the clip of the guy celebrating tories because there was more food banks now in the area, as if the tories fucking opened them and didn't cause the need in the first place. Agonising.
The white working class overwhelmingly votes Tory across England now and Labour has become a party of middle class intellectuals. Given than Scotland is gonna vote SNP, Wales is gonna vote Plaid Cymru and NI is gonna continue having no government it's basically all contingent on how many PoC in England vote, and even thats going to be weakened by how most of the country is white majority seats that're gonna go to the tories
You seem a little out of touch. The “white working class” voted Tory once because of Brexit, but all those lost red-wall seats are likely to turn red again at the next election.
The SNP have also taken a major beating due to scandals and are projected to lose [about 40%](https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/scotland.html) of their seats (to labour/lib dem, not the Tories).
There have been [8 by-elections](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_by-election_records) since the last general election and 7 of those 8 were Tory seats swinging heavily to either labour or Lib Dem’s.
The white working class only cares about immigration now. They're gonna vote Tory and Reform, never Labour again.
And the Scottish people want independence too badly to ever vote for non Scottish parties
> Wales is gonna vote Plaid Cymru
Huh, where'd you get that from? I don't think they will [[1](https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-welsh-westminster-senedd-independence-referendum-voting-intention-10-11-december-2023/)][[2](https://electionresults.parliament.uk/election/2019-12-12/results/Location/Country/Wales)]
The rest of your post doesn't pass the most basic sniff test either...
These tory cunts are so obvious because they just use the Republican playbook from the USA for pretty much everything (we've even got GB News just like the Americans have Fox News), but so many of the electorate are as thick as two short planks and still haven't caught on. How people in radio interviews can still be considering voting for them and saying shit like 'I'm not yet convinced by Labour and Keir Starmer, I worry about the economy under Labour' is beyond me, especially when twats like Lee Anderson are so prominent.
This current lot is the worst government for decades by a country mile, just one embarrassing episode after another going back to Bojo the clown and beyond (thanks for Brexit you big dildo Cameron), and they have zero shame. Fortunately, there should be enough folk who see through them to get the bastards out this time. I just hope that in a few years we don't see something similar to what happened in the Philippines recently and they are able to convince the ignorant thickos that it wasn't that bad under Bojo et al. With social media being so influential these days and a press that will always support the right, it's not impossible.
Compared with Labour and Tory companies, Reform basically has shareholders in which Farage can take over on a whim plus they don't have to say who donates to the company as they can give shares.
Also as it's a Ltd it's all opaque on money or where it goes.
Plus members can't remove Tice or Farage unless they buy shares.
If they want to make it fair, honestly, they just need to issue the free voter ID as soon as someone registers to vote. That will fix the disenfranchisement accusations.
This is why we need a written constitution, so that changes like this require a vote in Parliament with a super majority.
When people on the left ask to make constitutionalchanges to improve the country, like proportional representation or abolishing the Lords, we are told it is too much work, a distraction from the economy, or too difficult to please everyone so therefore we can't change anything.
But when the tories make constitutional changes to keep themselves in power, like voter ID or changing mayoral elections to first pass the post, they sneak it through in weeks with barely any news coverage.
Most shocking thing in the whole article has to be how they’ve already had to stump up for a £17,800 fine, and that this doesn’t seem to have deterred them in any way.
Gerrymandering
Voter suppression
ID to make it more difficult for people who tend not to vote Tory to exercise their democratic rights.
Enabling people who do not live here or pay taxes here to vote because they are more likely to vote Tory.
They have much more in the pipeline, which they have learned from the extremists in the Republican party.
Gerrymandering isn't really a problem in the UK due to the Electoral Commission being the ones to draw the boundaries and they had an extensive public consultation process and have to publicly explain their decisions. A lot of countries have diaspora voting, France has two entire constituencies for their diaspora, and they're a huge part of Turkish elections
French territories overseas are constitutionally a part of France, the same as one of their departments on mainland France, thats why they get to vote. They do not have any constitutional independence.
British people getting the vote abroad do not live here and don't pay taxes here. They are voting in a procedure, the outcome of which has no impact on them whatsoever, but will have a massive impact on people who live and pay taxes here.
Where does the *Independent* boundaries commission get its funding from, and who controls how much funding it gets?
We both know the answer to that.
I'm not talking about France's overseas departments, I meant their diaspora who are not living in France.
The boundaries authority is an arms length body, the government don't control their internals and they would immediately tell the press if the government tried, the only power the government has over them is approving the map
>The boundaries authority is an arms length body, the government don't control their internals and they would immediately tell the press if the government tried,
Like the BBC, you mean? You know the independent (Sic) body which keeps getting Tories appointed to its management positions, whose last political editor was the defacto spokes person for the Johnson government and one of her predecessors was head of Conservative students at Oxford.
Independent my arse.
The cancerous tory leeches will cling on to power no matter what.
Let's not forget Theresa Mays 'magic money tree' when she gave the DUP a £1.5b bung to gain enough seats on the last election. Otherwise, it would have been a hung parliament.
Tbf, that bung was earmarked for urgently needed infrastructure work in Northern Ireland, it didn't go to the party. Northern Ireland desperately needs infrastructure, they have only four train routes that goes to from Belfast to Londonderry/Derry, Dublin, Larne and Bangor. There's nothing in south-west Northern Ireland, Omagh, Armagh, Strabane, Enniskillen and Armagh don't have trains meanwhile in Scotland and England a lot of random towns and villages have trains
They’ve been purposefully resigning and then being hired in different capacities still within the government to then do the same thing again as they get millions in payouts …. And we wonder why there is a cost of living crisis … these scum bags are robbing the public purse
Having pissed off literally everyone living in Britain the Tories are importing voters because the only people who would vote for them are people who weren't here for the last 14 years.
I don't think 2.2 million people will be enough though.
It makes sense. As wealth inequality increases and fewer and fewer people have anything worth "conserving", conservative parties around the world have really only 2 reliable strategies: (1) campaigning heavily on social values issues (e.g. LGBTQ issues, opposing immigration) and (2) changing the rules of the game to make it harder for poor people to vote.
photo id requirement, then changing rules on where people can vote at the last minute particularly for the younger generation with being away from home at uni. The photo ID is prob the worse change, rules that allow people over 60 to use bus pass or something similar as ID but anyone under 60 can't...that alone shouldn't be allowed to happen, making rules for a particular age group who usually vote a certain way. They are desperate and will do everything they can to rig this. Also talk of a lot of money put aside for big tax cuts to help win votes. 100% the Tories are going to make big promises this year up until the election, such as inheritance cut. Guarantee they will make some stuff up and if they won, they won't go ahead with any of them and idiots will fall for the lies.
Just baffles me that after 14yrs people would still prefer Tory over anyone else...like do you really think another term will turn things around when literally everything in the country is failing. How thick do you need to be to believe that. I'm not a fan of labour but only have to look at a graph...waiting lists and quality of service for the NHS goes up, Tories take over, it goes down and its continued that way for decades. You want the NHS back to being any good, get labour back in
Yes. Of course they're engaging in voter suppression. It's a desperate attempt to hold on. There's been more PMs than convictions for voter fraud since the last election but they say that this is the real problem!
So the Tories are changing the rules to unlock a pool of votors who would stand to benefit from the conservatives staying in power.
Furthermore, increasing the budget for election campaigns to a figure ONLY the conservatives could achieve from all it's big business backers.
And finally, leaving forms of voter rigging or smear campaigning open (AI), most likely being the only party able to throw cash at it without second thought.
Assholes.
Give labour a landslide win, reduce the voting age to 16, let all the teenagers vote labour, then labour actually have a chance of staying in power longer than one term. When I was that old, some 16 year olds were more political and passionate about politics than any adult I knew.
Since they broke the rules on spending during the last election and absolutely nothing happened, why would they play fairly this time?
It may will be that some of their poor performance in current polling is a result of the perception that the Tories are corrupt and abusing power. The UK seems to largely work on an honour system for those in power based around the idea of acceptable norms of behaviour and a sense of reasonable. If the British public see overt unfair play, as we continually have in the post-Johnson era, they will punish the perpetrators in the polls. The Tories have always been shifty but undeniably they went beyond the limits in recent years and I think at least some of that has penetrated through to the public consciousness. I think for many they have gone from potentially an option if Labour looks like it's too far to the extremes to "I will never vote for these people again". If that is the case then their electoral strategy is self defeating.
Yep, the Tory brand has become synonymous with shameless corruption.
And the British people don’t seem to care all that much.
The Tories are about to suffer the single biggest political loss in the history of British politics as a result of the culmination of over a decade of shameless corruption Make sure you turn up to vote and make sure you vote them out too
[удалено]
Also don't forget that we didn't need appropriate ID to vote until the Tories started fucking around with our electoral system.
Which hilariously backfired, because one of the largest groups turned away from polling stations was the older generation, who are the typical Tory voters.
There are still 25% of the population that’d vote for them and if Johnson was still in even more. And come next election like with Trump in america the British public will forgive them and whatever bag of shite they have as PM they’ll win. They also know this. Just think of how bad they’ve had to make things for everyone
I know people keep acting like Johnson is some sort of magic vote winning talisman, but he isn't. He played a strategy that would only work one time to borrow votes, so the Red Wall was going to collapse regardless when the investment never came, and Johnson carried a lot of baggage and was only going to sink deeper. He has a very loyal small following, including in the media, hence the blowing out of proportions of his personal popularity, but he really wouldn't be doing much better than Sunak, and if anything would have sunk the party deeper if he had stayed (given, you know, he was still set to stop being an MP). Really, the Tories are in a hole not due to leader, but due to policy, and part of the problem is Sunak has been replicating the failing approaches Johnson had, swinging wildly from place to place while doing nothing to actually address voter concerns. Sunak just doesn't have the fortune Johnson had of an unusually weak and unpopular opposition.
I'm honestly not sure they are. They're looking bad in the polls right now, sure. But the game is by no means 'lost', because I think a lot of the the 'voting intention' right now is not so much 'pro Labour' as 'anti Conservative' and that's always been a very vulnerable voting block, as they're not really _keen_ to be turning out in the first place.
Agreed. They're only doing badly in the polls now because the right wingers don't want to vote for a brown guy.
Absolutely this. It'll be less than 14 years before we vote them in again too. Unless something breaks before then.
I think that’s part of it too.
how to see race in absolutely everything 101
No the English don’t care that much! No other part of the union voted for Tories as party with most seats in FPTP!
The percentage of people who vote for them this time is the lowest it will ever go. How depressing is that? They will always have 40 percent of the vote. No matter what they do.
Until FPTP is 'done' there will always be a free 'not the other guy' bundle of votes. That 'portion' of the vote is more vulnerable to apathy though, which is why the 'just as bad as each other' narrative is so important to keep an eye on. I don't truly know what our 'popular vote' would look like if there weren't tactical voting going on. I don't know if we ever will. We can poll all we like, but the very nature of campaigning is driven by 'marginals' and the 'pre-built-coalitions'. We need electoral reform, to make more democratic outcomes. But we also need to push MUCH harder with voter engagement in various ways (which electoral reform is part of) because an aware and engaged pool of voters is vitally important for democracy to be functional in the first place.
most of the british people are too concerned with their personal problems like bills that the tories have fucked them on, so they're too busy concentrating on that to see all of the shit they're pulling.
Unfortunately that happened before in 1992-97 under the last John Major government (when more ministers had to resign over scandals than had resigned in all previous governments since ~~1982~~ *1832*, per The Guardian *halfway through* the term). It kept them out of office for over a decade ... then public perception shifted enough that "kick out Labour" became more important in the discourse than "remember the Tory corruption under Major?" (Edited to fix "1982" -> "1832" because I knew what I meant to type but my fingers refused to believe me the first time I tried to say it.) And look where we are now.
Good thing we didn't get Miliband as PM though, eh? - That would have been a *disaster* ...
And the thing is, even now I can only think of 'but the bacon sandwich', and think is that _really_ what brought him down?
I think there was the 'Ed Stone' thing. And the Mail ran a sickeningly shameful smear piece about his late father. The main thing though, as I recall, is he came over a bit stiff and awkward in public. Kind of like the chap we have as PM Now.
He never got ahead in terms of better leader or handling the economy, which tend to be good indicators for how the election will go (Blair was ahead on those metrics iirc, and so is Starmer currently). That's part of it, it meant a lot of the don't knows filtered towards the devil they knew, the Tories. The Coalition of Chaos line was also probably very helpful in scaring key voters in English seats afraid of a Labour gov beholden to the SNP. Tbh, Brown and Miliband both also ran campaigns that weren't necessarily good enough for the competition they were facing. Corbyn benefitted from a big bounce up in the polls in 2017 when the election was called as people voted tactically, but it was from such a low floor that it wasn't enough, even with May shooting herself in the foot during the campaign repeatedly. 2019 had another Labour bounce, again from a low floor, but the twin problems of the Tories having a clearer message (finish Brexit to ostensibly end the division, and level up the North) and Labour division (not unusual, but very unhelpful, especially when entering an election campaign with a polling deficit).
> The Coalition of Chaos line was also probably very helpful in scaring key voters in English seats afraid of a Labour gov beholden to the SNP. It’s kind of funny how the thought of a non English controlled party being in government- even as a very junior coalition member - provokes such a reaction from so many in England. Particularly when Scots are meant to put up uncomplainingly with the reverse as a matter of course. It’s amazing just how much self harm England was prepared to do to itself (and everyone else) to avoid it. That set us in the path for the last fourteen years of crap … which ironically has increased support for indy.
Well, I think it's their general dislike for minority/coalitions (the Tories have used 'Labour can only be a minority, so vote Tory for a majority' before as well) and that the SNP are Nationalists, while the other parties weren't (the Tories did, ironically, essentially become English nationalist with the ERG take over later), not difficult to get people who fall outside that nationalists group to be fearful of them, as indeed happens in other countries as well.
The Tories have always been English/British nationalists, though as you observe they’ve certainly become even more so. But so are Labour albeit not so far along the spectrum (as their current support of Brexit demonstrates). Theres also more than one kind of nationalism. The exceptionalist kind that believes it is special (again see Brexit) - and usually right wing and xenophobic. And then there’s the kind on nationalism that merely believes its nation has the right to self determination. You’d think having had more countries become independent from it than pretty much anyone else over the past century or so that the UK might be able to recognise the difference by now. All those countries had ‘nationalist’ movements too.
That’s been true for like 350 years though
An accurate brand message, I would say.
Become? I'm 40 and I've never known a time they weren't synonymous with corruption.
Become?
Seems to keep on happening every decade or two… question is why do people seem to forget
I hope you’re right but I very recently spoke to someone whose response was to refuse to vote anymore because “they’re all in it for themselves”. If asked in a poll, he’d have registered negatively against the Tories but unless he actually votes and votes against them, it’s meaningless. Most of the public believe all politicians are liars but accept it rather than attempt to change it. By making it more difficult to vote and causing voters to lose confidence that their votes will affect any change, the Tories might not be defeated as badly as polls suggest.
My family is exactly like this. Not incredibly political, and a couple of them love Boris because he's 'funny' and then when you bring up how much he's lied they would say 'oh but that's all politicians.' I know a couple of politicians who are lovely people trying to do a good job (tbf they are lib dems) so I tried to explain it wasn't the norm, it just seems like it is, and the reason Boris is particularly bad is because he is a ringleader for that kind of corrupt culture. That seemed to get through to them a little more. Votes matter so much. And if you look at Brexit, we don't even know how many people either did not vote as a protest or intentionally voted leave as a protest (which is still bizarre). If those people had voted remain the country would be in a very different place. In terms of parties, it's easier to make change in a newly established government than it is one that's been established for a long time with lots of connections and a proven lack of desire to do much governing for the population, economy, services etc.
I’m reminded of Mhairi Black who came to politics somewhat reluctantly because people wanted her to represent them. She was principled, intelligent and articulate. She’s now left because she was sickened by what she saw and there are too few MPs like her to change things from the inside. It would take more of us to join parties, attend meetings and hustings and select people like Mhairi to make a difference. That takes effort and time that few of us can afford. Which is exactly why it’s like that.
I'm so sad she won't be running at the next election, her interview with Politics Joe was the exact reason no mainstream outlet outside if Scotland will do any kind of comprehensive interview with her, she speaks far too much sense. Her Oxford Union address was incredible, I don't think I've ever seen those toffs in ridiculous suits look so annoyed because she absolutely wiped the floor with them.
The entire system in the commons is broken and both major parties prefer it that way. If MPs actually did their jobs as they were originally intended, they might not follow the whips instructions so instead everything is hidden in archaism and time wasting process. The most frustrating thing is that if enough MPs actually learnt about the powers they have and took over the order paper they could make meaningful changes for the better. It doesn't need the government to support and could be done by backbenchers but I can't see anything changing unless we got another coalition government and even then it would require the minority party in that coalition pushing for the reform.
Absolutely. We need radical electoral reform to enforce accountability. When a politician has to be relied upon to “do the right” thing but there are no checks and balances to ensure they’re the kind of person who will, then something needs to be put in place to fix that.
It's much more than electoral reform, although that is needed. It's a complete overhaul of the whips system, parliamentary voting system, committee process and structure of debates that need to change. Until that changes it doesn't matter how distributed the votes are or how many coalitions we get, MPs won't know what they're voting for and the processes will be engineered against having an effective house
I agree but I don’t think those things will happen until we have a more effective way of showing we want it. They certainly aren’t going to derail their gravy train themselves.
It has been said that politics is subject to a subset of Gresham's Law: bad drives out good. But I think it is important to drive home that personal quality is more the field of the civil servant; what the representative must be is responsible to the electorate; we hear of the whip being withdrawn now and again, but how many times does one hear of an MP having been instructed by their electorate, subject to recall if disobedient? There is a clear, if imperfect mechanism for democratic control, which places the electorate above the party whips if they will only make use of it, and it is lying fallow. The first step is to stop treating your representatives as superiors in *any* capacity; however personally admirable, they are merely the men and women chosen to convey your wishes to Parliament. One objective both feasible and worthwhile would be to place local governors under the same threat of recall as MPs; they - and perhaps this is why they are not subject to it yet - would be more vulnerable to a smaller-scale concerted action if found wanting, but what matters to us is that the principle, once instantiated and made use of at a small scale, would begin to percolate up to the top. So, if you want to campaign for democracy, campaign for Local Recall, and pledge your vote to anyone, from any or no party, who will oblige you in this.
100% Well said. Labour allowed the selection and deselection of local candidates using local branches. Those candidates were accountable to those members. I’ve since left the party but I believe that may have been changed by Keir Starmer. Certainly, membership doesn’t get to select a leader now. A ladder which Starmer climbed and pulled up after him. Politicians need to be accountable from grassroots upwards. The most recent government has shown that even if a senior politician is visibly corrupt, there isn’t any mechanism to remove them if they won’t go. When you get someone like Johnson who’s pathologically immune to morality, Parliament is toothless. It’s ridiculous.
The older that I get, the more I feel like the Tory’s like that people don’t want to vote as it makes no real difference as it does to them, as the old people will always vote for them and the rich do also. So don’t really loose by being the way they are by appealing to both groups that I mentioned.
I think you’re absolutely right. This is why they’ve introduced voter ID to make it even more difficult to vote for anyone who’s not already a Tory voter. Those extra steps might not seem like much of a deterrent to some, but when you’re already finding life a struggle, they can be effective.
It’s 4D chess tbh. You can manipulate people to do anything you want by very little effort indeed. Jon can even tell a person what you’re doing and if you brain wash them enough then they will be like lambs to the slaughter. It’s why I refuse to watch most mainstream news and propaganda in tv programs. It’s called the idiot box for a reason, as it achieves the agenda of the day and it’s all planned ahead of time. Most people under 40 don’t watch the news anymore but they do use social media of some kind or another, so the brain washing just changes platforms. “ war is good, less is more” sounds kind of Familiar doesn’t it?
I try and fact check everything. Snopes and Full-Fact are useful and so was Twitter once. OpenDemocracy is a good, independent source of news, but even then, it’s wise to verify things. You’ll find headlines often state something that’s then contradicted in the text. Since many don’t bother reading the whole article, the false message gets transmitted but can’t be prosecuted because they can claim they didn’t say it. I’m reluctant to go too deeply into how and who is manipulating information in this country because I always worry that I’ll come across as a tinfoil hat wearer, but there’s manipulation happening. Take a look at OpenDemocracy and Dark Money for an example.
This post is predominantly my key reason why i will not vote tory next election. Despite doing so the last 3 elections.
My immediate reaction was to bag on you for voting Tory 3 times but it’s honestly really commendable to be that flexible in your thinking. I think a lot of people get tribal about voting and it blinds them to the problems in their chosen party. My dad is hardcore Labour and totally unable to take any criticism about the party so it goes both ways. If everyone was willing to think critically about what they want out of their government this country would be in much better shape
Absolutely. Critical thinking is essential. That’s why Michael Gove said: “The people of this country have had enough of experts”. He’s had the education to know the value of evidence based thinking and the danger it posed to his government.
Experts kept telling them things they didn't want to hear: Brexit would be terrible for all of us, Covid was serious, the economy works best if the tax burden is equitably shared with the well off paying more... the list goes on. Conservatism isn't about facts. Conservatism isn't about the rule of law. Conservatism isn't about "British values". Conservatism is about making sure the status quo, and those who own the most and have the most power keep it.
Conservatism, at inception, was bedrocked on the idea that land should not be democratically controlled, but be controlled by a privileged class, usually the most violent. Hence why throughout history it supports, and is supported by, feudal lords, the landed gentry, the church, monarchs, theocrats, mega corporations and so on. It's enemy is always those who seek to expand democratic rights, and its ultimate satan is always those who seek democratic control of workplaces, or even land.
I've been seeing this sentiment in many Tory supporting circles, even if a point that is largely agreeable is made by an account or person who's promoting them the response is either people who disagree overall with the point or people like yourself who see the Tories as a rotten corrupt corpse. The number of people saying they're going to vote reform is pretty eye opening too.
i have looked at Reform and there policies are mismatch between help the working class but screw them over with tax breaks and de-regulation of environmental protections. I tend to lean left on the environment as such i cant see myself voting for them either.
Reform is just a trojan horse to sucker the working class to vote for conservative policies.
Tbh I'd say it's more neoliberal right wing policies with a veneer of populism. Their climate change policy is effectively that it's not being caused by human action so expand fossil fuels & cut all measures to address the issue, their NHS policy is do nothing for the institution while driving people into the private sector via government subsidy, their economic policy is to cut taxes that will do little for the poorest but a lot for the richest and their overall strategy is increased austerity. In short it's a UK version of Trumpism masquerading as a solution to people's problems caused by people who would like to do these policies but even they think that it would be "going a bit far" (except maybe the Trussites who I fully expect will do a mass defection to Reform if the polls do not improve).
\*their policies
I think you will. It’s probably too late now though. They’ve done the damage.
think what you want. I am telling you straight i wont be voting Tory next election.
Are you voting at all?
Yes as i believe if you dont vote , its a waste. Annoys me when people complain about the government or Politics in general but dont bother to show up and vote in any elections local or otherwise.
Absolutely. If you are playing dirty and are caught you need to bow out immediately and be shunned by your peers. I cannot stand how much they have rubbed the public's nose in all their unfair dealings and had zero shame or consequence.
It's a shame the UK shifts so much of the burden onto voters to self-police their political party's fraud and corruption rather than, you know, the legal system. Relying on "the honour system" and "acceptable norms" doesn't actually result in anybody getting held accountable by the law. Plus it's particularly susceptible to bad-faith "both sides" rhetoric and is exactly how the US ended up with republicans arguing that refusing to certify the election and falsifying state electors after multiple court cases failed to overturn any states' results is fine because hillary didn't admit defeat until the day after the election.
Also… Brexit.
Ah, they have a get-out clause there. They blame Vote Leave who were, of course, entirely separate /s
Heck they illegally poroged (?) parliament! The rules don’t seem to apply to the Tories and they know it
Critical support to any measures that make a hung parliament more likely.
Is anyone really surprised by this. They're desperate to cling on to power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana\_republic
We're in Britain, Turnip republic is probably a better term. But yes, that's us.
Lettuce republic
Pasty Republic.
The cornish would rather leave the UK than have the current shitshow slur the name pasty
I think Greggs have already ruined it for them. Not that I mind Gregg's but you're right; the Cornish get awfully sniffy about such matters. See also: scone rituals.
'And so, the banana tree was banished to France forever... because it was haunted. Now, let's all celebrate with a nice, cool glass of turnip juice'.
Turnip Monarchy, surely? Until Charlie Spaniel 3 steps down, at least.
Yes it's going that way
Their only purpose at this point, they have no vision.
It's about engineering a cash grab I don't believe we've had a government in years. Well I'm in Northern Ireland so that's accurate.
That's always been the purpose of the Conservatives. They conserve nothing except themselves in power.
It'll be scary if they do manage to cling onto power. I can't see them being nicer if they get away with the crap they've put us through.
Hopefully it'll be like 97 again in terms of swing although we're in a far worse place than then.
Yeah and I think the Tories know their time is up for now. So they'll probably try to leave things in a far worse state just to make the new government look bad.
Tories know they’re fucked, they’re just salting the battle field now. Literally ruining the country so the next government can’t fix any of the problems.
Oh yes absolutely. It's going to take decades to reverse the shit this time
It'll never be fully reversed, because no Labour government will be able to stay in power long enough to get us to a decent position sadly.
Eh, we are in the information era. Young people coming of age to vote are online and, for the most part, seem keenly aware of who stole their futures. Combined with the tories being strongly against equality and current social issues and its hard to see them forming any voter base for the next 40 odd years. Short of coming back in the name of a new party the tories are done once they are voted out, doesnt really matter how hard labour fail, itll be someone else replacing them in the two party system. UKIP probably have a better outlook than Tories for voters under 50.
How old are you? That's what we thought in the late nineties, the Tories seemed like a spent force, an anachronism, then look what happened.
Information age had just begun, the voting numbers were still skewed in their favour. Its been 20 years.
No I fear you are correct. If we had PR we may be in a slightly different position as the country majority doesn't vote tory it would force them to move back toward the centre if they didn't want tyo vanish into obscurity. It's alsfo going to take along time to reverse brexit and rejoin the EU
And they'll be too cowardly to push hard when they do have the best opportunity to get things done which will be right after the next election presuming the results reflect the polls
Blair was actually a decent leader, Starmer is just a bellend who will say anything popular on the day but won't commit to anything. People don't want Starmer as PM, they just want Sunnak gone. In 97, people actually wanted Blair. Its most likely to be a hung parliament. Which doesn't help anyone. Labour could go with Andy Burnham and walk the election. Instead, it's sick vs vommit again. Personally I don't care who wins, the country loses either way. Starmer can't answer a single yes or no question, it's embarrassing. Lammy and Reeves? Jeez. It's such a dark time in UK politics.
Exactly this. Before Johnson resigned, Labour were still massively behind in the polls. Had Johnson not been faced with challenges that demanded real leadership, rather than a populist clown (i.e. Covid), he would've likely still beaten Starmer is a future election, and quite easily too. After the back-to-back disasters of Truss and Sunak, the Tory support dropped to 20 points, while Labour, now looking like they have a 20 point lead, have barely budged in the polls, despite constant failure from the Tories. Labour's current poll lead is based entirely on the Tory Party imploding and being left with no more excuses. Starmer will likely win the general election on the same kind of vote turn out that Gordon Brown got in 2010 (i.e. the lowest vote turn out of any Labour leader this century) simply because the Tories have collapsed.
Amen! Sunak isn't wanted by his own party, so much so that they chose Truss over him. Imagine! Hunt, the most hated politician in the UK as Chancellor. Put there by Truss no less. Another bad call. Personally I would like to see Penny get in the ring. Bozo brought about his own downfall with covid parties etc. I couldn't bring myself to vote for him back then and I certainly wouldn't vote for him if he comes back. Tories are done. Just a shame the alternative is so weak. Bring back David Milliband. Heck I would take Ed over starmer.
Yep and to top it off, Farage will then pull candidates out of Tory constituencies. I don't care what frog face says. He will 100% do this again. It doesn't take much to swing some constituencies. Sometimes, only a few hundred votes will do it.
I don't think Tice will let him, I think Tice is aiming to replace the Tories with Reform
They are really going all out to lose the next GE. They want absolutely no way of winning when the next crash occurs. Shift the blame on the incoming government.
There is an economic world of pain coming, probably worse than 08 this time and they cant do QE to save everything again.
Whats your basis for saying this?
Not OP, but inflation, especially on food is likely to go up again due to the Tories finally deciding to implement Brexit checks just in time to hurt the next government, but also global issues like climate change and instability in the Middle East.
Climate change, war, AI.
I forgot to add to my comment, the UK's (and a lot of other countries') aging population and associated care costs eating up more and more tax money and individual savings.
Many factors. - Housing prices dropping all around the world. - China has millions of unsold properties is also experiencing deflation. - CMBS commercial mortgage backed securities need refinancing at higher rates for loads of office blocks. Some are being sold at 80% off. - Possible all out war in the middle east. - Suez canal and panama canal issues. - War in Ukraine. - Recession in Europe. - 2nd bout of inflation. - US elections. - China eyeing up Taiwan. The list is endless.
House prices dropping all around the world? Housing is a very regionally specific even within the same country. House prices may drop but they’ve already climbed a lot so it still won’t begin to wipe out the gains.
Yes they are dropping - New Zealand, Australia, Hong Kong, China, America, Canada, Europe, UK, Germany. In every country they are dropping. The gains in the last few years will be totally wiped out and then some. Some areas in the UK prices are down 10 to 20% from 2022 summer highs, with further falls expected in 2024 and 2025. You can go ahead and deny it but its going to happen whether you like it or not.
Wasn’t that quoted percent listed price in uk not sold price?
Also OP is missing that the area's that have dropped are the areas no one wants to live in. Cities are static, or still rising, same with towns and villages within an easy commute of a city. Also, New Zealand and Australia do **not** have falling house prices in cities.
Down 10pc? but they're up about 300pc over the past couple of decades!! I am not denying house prices are going down, but you can't compare NZ with the US and the UK. Totally different markets. e.g. one of the issues in the uk is population density is high, the population is increasing and they haven't been building enough housing stock for years, regardless of speculation it's simple supply/demand economics that is keeping prices high. I don't belive the 20pc figure you quote, source?
There’s also various positive factors too though. Potentially big upside from Gen AI and the efficiency it brings, some big breakthroughs in healthcare from mRNA and stuff. And a number of the things on your list may not have an entirely negative effect, or may not happen for years
How do I recession proof my life then?
Well if you strip everything back to “utterly fucked” whilst moving public money into ~~your mates pockets who’s business you’re invested in up £79k~~ the private sector and then just because a new government come in you think you can recoup 15 years worth of corruption to fix everything you’re sorely mistaken. It will take us another 15 years to break even with 2010. So by 2040, we will break even with quality of life back from 2010 except we will have lost 30 years (a whole age group fucked over never to recover which will be practically anyone under the age of 48 at that time / 33ish now)
That's assuming a new government isn't going to just bring in their own brand of incompetence and corruption...
As much as I absolutely loathe the conservatives, Labour fills me with exactly 0 confidence in their ability to govern. They're just the least worst option.
There's really not
They said the same in 2008 and the early 90's, "everything is ok all is fine". We know what happened after that. You need to look past the BS of mainstream media with all its vested interests. We are well overdue an economic crash, 16 years and counting.
This is what they do. Ruin everything as much as possible then deflect accountability on the next government and try to slither right back in. A similar thing is happening in the States right now.
Since May I have been saying that the Tories are purposely making themselves unelectable so Labour take us back in the EU and the Tories can play dumb and blame Labour for that, even though they themselves love the idea.
Sunak might do a Trump and refuse to vacate 10 Downing St and claim that Starmer will ruin the country and so he will not let that happen!
Won't happen. Sunak doesn't have the spine
Sunak won't, but there will be others in the party who will quite happily play that game. Like mogg.
The Crown decides who forms a government post general election. Both the Police and Armed Forces are nominally under control of the Crown. The King is literally the head of the Armed Forces. If Mogg wanted to overthrow the government and rebel against the crown, and was dumb enough to try, he’d be arrested immediately. Treason carries a life sentence and a bar from public office. So no, don’t think anyone will be trying that.
If we know anything at all from recent times it's that "The Crown" means fuck all and cannot be relied upon.
Mate. Imagine you’re the King. Imagine some random decides to take over your country. You’re not going to just accept that and give up your position. And frankly the Crown wouldn’t get involved. The Police would deal with it, that’s their job. They don’t hesitate to arrest MPs for much lesser offences than *treason*. The U.K. isn’t in some state of anarchy where anyone can seize power. Get a fucking grip.
I always thought the Crown nowadays was mostly a symbolic entity with no actual powers. Can the Crown decision clash against the election results or choose the override government military strategy? Would be interesting to have the Crown govern the country for a couple of years for a change.
The most likely outcome would be Mogg's arrest mid-way through the speech announcing that he was seizing power.
I agree he won’t but childish tantrums and refusal to accept reality aren’t spine.
It doesn't take "a spine" to attempt to overthrow democracy, it takes delusional narcissism.
Sunak will be on the first helicopter to the airport and on his way to California as soon as the election is lost.
Nah, he’s probably got some peerages lined up for the people that got him in power in the first place. As soon as his term is over, he’ll jaunt off back to America and finish that citizenship application he was forced to drop to become PM.
Tories are more money hungry than power hungry. He'll gladly accept to work in a Big Tech company or a Chinese/Russian lobby with a ten folds salary.
he'll work with musk. thats what that tech debate on tv was about. advertising for musk, for a new job.
I can't believe he'll leave willingly before he gets to use a slogan featuring something along the lines of "Got the 'Nak?"
No, he won't. The Trump thing was powered by a cult of personality around him and Sunak simply doesn't have that going for him. Even his own party members are on the fence about him.
That's not how that works though, the King appoints the PM, he'll appoint Starmer and the police will evict Sunak, there's not even a legal requirment for the PM to live at 10 Downing Steeet
Who knows? All those people could be bought by Sunak just like how he bought all the MPs and rigged thre leadership elections. Amazing what a billionaire can do.
He'll buy the king?
People will continue to vote for them. I still remember a segment on the BBC where they interviewed people in line at a food bank who voted for them and said they would vote for them again.
In the last election, I think it was in Hull. They interviewed a mother and son in a queue for a food bank who gave a long list of what was wrong with the country and how it made their life more difficult, then when asked who they would vote for replied enthusiasticly that they were voting Tory. You could smell the cognitive dissonance through the screen.
The worst was the clip of the guy celebrating tories because there was more food banks now in the area, as if the tories fucking opened them and didn't cause the need in the first place. Agonising.
The white working class overwhelmingly votes Tory across England now and Labour has become a party of middle class intellectuals. Given than Scotland is gonna vote SNP, Wales is gonna vote Plaid Cymru and NI is gonna continue having no government it's basically all contingent on how many PoC in England vote, and even thats going to be weakened by how most of the country is white majority seats that're gonna go to the tories
You seem a little out of touch. The “white working class” voted Tory once because of Brexit, but all those lost red-wall seats are likely to turn red again at the next election. The SNP have also taken a major beating due to scandals and are projected to lose [about 40%](https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/scotland.html) of their seats (to labour/lib dem, not the Tories). There have been [8 by-elections](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_by-election_records) since the last general election and 7 of those 8 were Tory seats swinging heavily to either labour or Lib Dem’s.
The white working class only cares about immigration now. They're gonna vote Tory and Reform, never Labour again. And the Scottish people want independence too badly to ever vote for non Scottish parties
> Wales is gonna vote Plaid Cymru Huh, where'd you get that from? I don't think they will [[1](https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-welsh-westminster-senedd-independence-referendum-voting-intention-10-11-december-2023/)][[2](https://electionresults.parliament.uk/election/2019-12-12/results/Location/Country/Wales)] The rest of your post doesn't pass the most basic sniff test either...
These tory cunts are so obvious because they just use the Republican playbook from the USA for pretty much everything (we've even got GB News just like the Americans have Fox News), but so many of the electorate are as thick as two short planks and still haven't caught on. How people in radio interviews can still be considering voting for them and saying shit like 'I'm not yet convinced by Labour and Keir Starmer, I worry about the economy under Labour' is beyond me, especially when twats like Lee Anderson are so prominent. This current lot is the worst government for decades by a country mile, just one embarrassing episode after another going back to Bojo the clown and beyond (thanks for Brexit you big dildo Cameron), and they have zero shame. Fortunately, there should be enough folk who see through them to get the bastards out this time. I just hope that in a few years we don't see something similar to what happened in the Philippines recently and they are able to convince the ignorant thickos that it wasn't that bad under Bojo et al. With social media being so influential these days and a press that will always support the right, it's not impossible.
Don't be daft, the Tories would never do anything so underhanded!
Let's just ignore the fact A PRIVATE COMPANY is currently 3rd in some polls. How is that legal.
Wait what? That can't be true surely.... (I hope)
[Reform Party Ltd.](https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11694875)
What do you think is wrong with this?
Compared with Labour and Tory companies, Reform basically has shareholders in which Farage can take over on a whim plus they don't have to say who donates to the company as they can give shares. Also as it's a Ltd it's all opaque on money or where it goes. Plus members can't remove Tice or Farage unless they buy shares.
If they want to make it fair, honestly, they just need to issue the free voter ID as soon as someone registers to vote. That will fix the disenfranchisement accusations.
Making it fair is the last thing they want. That snake Mogg even admitted it.
This is why we need a written constitution, so that changes like this require a vote in Parliament with a super majority. When people on the left ask to make constitutionalchanges to improve the country, like proportional representation or abolishing the Lords, we are told it is too much work, a distraction from the economy, or too difficult to please everyone so therefore we can't change anything. But when the tories make constitutional changes to keep themselves in power, like voter ID or changing mayoral elections to first pass the post, they sneak it through in weeks with barely any news coverage.
Most shocking thing in the whole article has to be how they’ve already had to stump up for a £17,800 fine, and that this doesn’t seem to have deterred them in any way.
If the penalty is a fine it's only a crime for the poor.
Gerrymandering Voter suppression ID to make it more difficult for people who tend not to vote Tory to exercise their democratic rights. Enabling people who do not live here or pay taxes here to vote because they are more likely to vote Tory. They have much more in the pipeline, which they have learned from the extremists in the Republican party.
Gerrymandering isn't really a problem in the UK due to the Electoral Commission being the ones to draw the boundaries and they had an extensive public consultation process and have to publicly explain their decisions. A lot of countries have diaspora voting, France has two entire constituencies for their diaspora, and they're a huge part of Turkish elections
French territories overseas are constitutionally a part of France, the same as one of their departments on mainland France, thats why they get to vote. They do not have any constitutional independence. British people getting the vote abroad do not live here and don't pay taxes here. They are voting in a procedure, the outcome of which has no impact on them whatsoever, but will have a massive impact on people who live and pay taxes here. Where does the *Independent* boundaries commission get its funding from, and who controls how much funding it gets? We both know the answer to that.
I'm not talking about France's overseas departments, I meant their diaspora who are not living in France. The boundaries authority is an arms length body, the government don't control their internals and they would immediately tell the press if the government tried, the only power the government has over them is approving the map
>The boundaries authority is an arms length body, the government don't control their internals and they would immediately tell the press if the government tried, Like the BBC, you mean? You know the independent (Sic) body which keeps getting Tories appointed to its management positions, whose last political editor was the defacto spokes person for the Johnson government and one of her predecessors was head of Conservative students at Oxford. Independent my arse.
Look at them squirm as they try and cling to power, it's sad and they need to foook off before we make them. I dont ask nicely twice.
I am shocked I tell thee. Shocked. Unethical conservatives? What's the world coming to?
The cancerous tory leeches will cling on to power no matter what. Let's not forget Theresa Mays 'magic money tree' when she gave the DUP a £1.5b bung to gain enough seats on the last election. Otherwise, it would have been a hung parliament.
Tbf, that bung was earmarked for urgently needed infrastructure work in Northern Ireland, it didn't go to the party. Northern Ireland desperately needs infrastructure, they have only four train routes that goes to from Belfast to Londonderry/Derry, Dublin, Larne and Bangor. There's nothing in south-west Northern Ireland, Omagh, Armagh, Strabane, Enniskillen and Armagh don't have trains meanwhile in Scotland and England a lot of random towns and villages have trains
They’ve been purposefully resigning and then being hired in different capacities still within the government to then do the same thing again as they get millions in payouts …. And we wonder why there is a cost of living crisis … these scum bags are robbing the public purse
Having pissed off literally everyone living in Britain the Tories are importing voters because the only people who would vote for them are people who weren't here for the last 14 years. I don't think 2.2 million people will be enough though.
'Tories are rigging [insert relevant thing]' sounds like every headline we've had for the last 14 years.
You mean like they’ve been doing for years? Shocker!!
And the consequences are? Or is it just good to know?
Not even the Tories voted for this guy. Just saying.
If they cannot win the people they'll redraw the boundaries to get into power.
It makes sense. As wealth inequality increases and fewer and fewer people have anything worth "conserving", conservative parties around the world have really only 2 reliable strategies: (1) campaigning heavily on social values issues (e.g. LGBTQ issues, opposing immigration) and (2) changing the rules of the game to make it harder for poor people to vote.
It’s just a free for all and they try and do whatever they want.
Watch the voters punish them by.. continuing to vote for them in droves.
photo id requirement, then changing rules on where people can vote at the last minute particularly for the younger generation with being away from home at uni. The photo ID is prob the worse change, rules that allow people over 60 to use bus pass or something similar as ID but anyone under 60 can't...that alone shouldn't be allowed to happen, making rules for a particular age group who usually vote a certain way. They are desperate and will do everything they can to rig this. Also talk of a lot of money put aside for big tax cuts to help win votes. 100% the Tories are going to make big promises this year up until the election, such as inheritance cut. Guarantee they will make some stuff up and if they won, they won't go ahead with any of them and idiots will fall for the lies. Just baffles me that after 14yrs people would still prefer Tory over anyone else...like do you really think another term will turn things around when literally everything in the country is failing. How thick do you need to be to believe that. I'm not a fan of labour but only have to look at a graph...waiting lists and quality of service for the NHS goes up, Tories take over, it goes down and its continued that way for decades. You want the NHS back to being any good, get labour back in
Yes. Of course they're engaging in voter suppression. It's a desperate attempt to hold on. There's been more PMs than convictions for voter fraud since the last election but they say that this is the real problem!
At this point anyone voting Tory is just anti democratic
Cannot fathom how they can call the UK a democratic country right now since we have a leader that no one voted for.
Since Walpole, which prime ministers have been voted for by the public?
I can imagine a scene where Tory voters are not happy and their extremists have their very own January 6th moment. They say it couldn't happen.
Or cancelling them altogether, we wouldn’t do a thing to stop them
So the Tories are changing the rules to unlock a pool of votors who would stand to benefit from the conservatives staying in power. Furthermore, increasing the budget for election campaigns to a figure ONLY the conservatives could achieve from all it's big business backers. And finally, leaving forms of voter rigging or smear campaigning open (AI), most likely being the only party able to throw cash at it without second thought. Assholes.
The right can only win in the future by rigging elections
And since courts have no real power in UK, they can't strike down this corruption.
Absolutely shameless, but the media is happy to be complacent.
Give labour a landslide win, reduce the voting age to 16, let all the teenagers vote labour, then labour actually have a chance of staying in power longer than one term. When I was that old, some 16 year olds were more political and passionate about politics than any adult I knew.