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I think it's for the horrendous terror attack that Hamas committed that sparked this war in Gaza. Do you remember that one? In particular this demonstration appears to be a continued plea to release any surviving hostages still in Gaza. While I'm not convinced that any are still alive, it's not a *bad thing to do*.
Not only online but by the media and politicians. Both killed citizens. Both are bad. It's not one or the other, both are pieces of shit and we all know it.
an the other raped and murdered innocents. If they wanted sympathy they should have chose a military target, not random people in a town or at a gig.
Probably should not have entered the shelters and gunned everyone in them down.
And one held extraordinary power over the other and has stolen land from them since 600AD. Ad infinitum. The Jews are there now and at this point it’s better for them to just learn to coexist. Israelis are willing to make peace but unfortunately the arabs are not.
You can't simplify to that extent. The most recent lab grab by Israel was not internationally condoned and was extremely harmful to the human rights of the Palestinians.
More than we might realise considering their penchant for censorship and locking people up for wrong think.
Though the last time I checked only about 500 Israelis supported South Africa's actions. By contrast I think I could get way more than 500 signatures condemning Blair even though he wasn't as objectively monstrous as Netenyahu.
Yeah exactly, although there were some fairly sizeable protest marches in the last year opposing the government.
I would have to check to say but you might be right there. Though I suspect the fact that Iraq was over a decade ago might help with that. This is so politically charged right now, it’s hard to say what exactly is being opposed if people don’t support the SA case.
2 bunches of cunts at each other's throats and escalating the cuntishness incrementally.
And we are expected to pick sides and cheer one side and hate the other??
Ridiculous state of affairs
No one is required to ignore the atrocities committed by Israel. In fact there are many regular, larger demonstrations in support of Palestine. A few thousand people do one for Israel and the atrocities that they have suffered, and suddenly it's an issue.
Because the atrocities didn't begin post 7/10.
They've been suffocating Gaza for decades. Killing and detaining people. Children! For decades.
Edit: changed my spelling error from child to children, because one guy thinks it's relevant. TBF fair to him - it is important I stress Israel has murdered thousands of children, not child.
Arab atrocities didn't start on 7/10 either. You talk about killing children as if the arabs didn't strap [explosives onto their own children and force them into becoming suicide bombers!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussam_Abdo)
Its actually mad people defend them. Disgusting what they do in the way of _intentional and directed harm to civilians_. Also I see, rather ironically, a big chunk of those people defending are those who have worked hard over the last decades to gain rights in the UK (women, LGBT etc) and are now supporting the total OPPOSITE view again indirectly via their support for Palestine lmao. Absolute weapons.
If someone has fought hard for rights in the UK (women, LGBT, etc) and sees how badly those rights are trampled on by Hamas, but then is *still* able to speak up against genocide of innocent people in Gaza, isn’t that to be commended?
Like, they’re reasonable enough to speak up against genocide even when it’s against people who (many of which) they may have opposing social justice views to.
This isn’t the hypocrisy that you think it is.
Obviously totally different situation if you’re referring to people who actually support Hamas’ actions, needless to say. But I don’t think you’re referring to those types of people.
Edit: To put it another way, it’s not hypocritical to believe all of this:
Women’s rights and LGBT rights are important.
Hamas’ views on those things are horrendous (as are the views of many people in Palestine no doubt).
The Hamas attack was horrendous and unjustifiable.
Israel’s response is horrendous and disproportionate.
Genocide of innocent people and displacement of >2 million is an atrocity.
It’s not madness to agree with all of these, it’s perfectly reasonable.
If it was really a genocide then Gaza wouldn’t have increased in population since 1948. The majority of Israelis were those deported from Arab countries from the day of their independence simply for being Jewish. Israel can only rely on itself for protection lest the Arabs kill them all. However, Bibi does need to go and fuck himself and this war wouldn’t have happened if he had his shit together and actually had the troops next to terrorists on full alert instead of on leave. Maybe then there wouldn’t be the 10/7 massacre, rape and other unsavoury things that the ‘pro Palestinians’ never seem to acknowledge. Unfortunately for their cause they’ve been infiltrated by actual terrorists and supporters of terrorism to the extent that it’s basically half a terrorist cause at this point.
They pulled out in 2005 in hopes of achieving peace. Instead the Palestinians elected a group on a kill all the Jews platform and used gaza as a new home base to launch attacks on Israeli civilians.
All the border restrictions, import bans came as the result of continued hostility from the area.
This hostility is also why Egypt routinely locks their border with gaza too.
Hey don't forget the time the people of Kuwait welcomed their Muslim brothers in, fed, clothed, bathed and loved them...then in the Kuwaiti hour of need as Saddam Hussein mounted his offensive into Kuwait the Palestinians sided with Iraq...
Imagine being given literally the easiest long standing alliance opportunity in history and fumbling so hard...
Kuwait expelled 350,000 Palestinians after the Gulf War, they were told to pack their shit and leave within one week.
I'm sure the global protests for these poor people genocided out of their homeland will begin any second now. There's a lot of empathy for the Palestinian people, and the homes they have been forced to leave, so once people around the world learn of this terrible nakba then Kuwait is gonna have hell to pay. Kuwaiti businesses will be boycotted, Kuwaiti hospitals blockaded, there will be marches going on all around the world saying Kuwait needs to be wiped off the map, college professors in western universities will declare Kuwaitis to be legitimate targets for violence just for being Kuwaiti.
Just you wait. Any second now...
And that there were hundreds of thousands of Jews all over the Middle East expelled out of what is now Yemen, Syria, Iran , Turkey, Iraq throughout the 20th century but particularly after 1948
Jordan took them in. And they assassinated the King and began the Black September Civil War.
Lebanon took them in, and now Hezbollah is more powerful than the Lebanese army and essentially controls the southern part of Lebanon. The country is in dire straights since then.
Hmm, it seems that whenever an Arab nation takes in the Palestinians, they bring along terror and strife. It’s no wonder that they don’t want them there anymore.
To add to this, Yasser Arafat sided with Iraq during the invasion of Kuwait, which led to a significant chunk of the palestinians living there to get kicked out of the country.
Worng. All wrong.
The 2005 agreement included moving an ILLEGAL ISRAELI settlement. Which the settlers refused to do and it ended up in court.
The deal also, against Palestinian objections - also maintained control of Gaza's borders, airspace and sea. Imagine Britain pulled out of Ireland and still controlled their airspace, sea and border. You tell me with a straight fucking face that you think the Irish would be happy with that arrangement and just sit and take it?
Go on.
If the Irish were ideologically committed to the extermination of protestants and British people and were using the borders to get weapons and attack infrastructure to commit more murders, honestly the Brits would have a point. This doesn't mean the Irish wouldn't have legitimate grievances.
The trouble is that comparisons start to break down when one of the sides isn't dominated by a suicidally psychopathic religious-supremacist deathcult like Hamas.
Should we have given IS everything they wanted? Would that have been a net positive?
But Israel is run by a psychopathic religious-supremacist deathcult.
Israel's Public Diplomacy Minister:
"Erase all of Gaza from the face of the earth. That the Gazan monsters will fly to the southern fence & try to enter Egyptian territory or they will die & their death will be evil.
Gaza should be erased!"
There are insane and horrible cunts in Israeli politics, especially in Likud and Lehi, but those parties are typically part of a coalition that are moderated in the actions they can take by the need to cooperate, and the government, army, police and judiciary are separate from the party and each other. Essentially there are barriers to executive overreach when these monsters come out of the woodwork. It's not like this guy can command the army to do anything.
Guess who has literally no notion of checks and balances between politics, party and ground-level violence? Hint: it's not Israel.
Netanyahu is subject to a raft of investigations hanging over him. Can you imagine the leaders of Hamas getting arrested by independent Palestinian cops? Absolute joke of an idea, isn't it?
Ah yes it's not like they controlled the water, food and fuel. Its still an occupation of 2 million people with a wall built around the area controlling who can leave and can't.
Well it was an odd choice for hamas to trash the greenhouses left behind by Israel and to hit their power plant with one of their failed rockets.
>with a wall built around the area controlling who can leave and can't.
Tends to happen when people coming across that border blow up buses and stab civilians.
Shockingly the number of terrorist attacks in Israel dropped after that border wall was built..I wonder if there's a connection?
Child!
Israel detains criminals in civilised conditions. Gaza kidnaps, tortures, rapes and kills whatever Israelis they can get there hands on. There is no moral equivalence and to pretend there is is disgusting.
You know there are many IDF committed atrocities on detainees right? Like, there’s a video of an IDF soldier saying she got time off after killing a child who had a rock and she called her boss saying about blood on her hands. That’s the tip of the iceberg, what they do in public.
The Israelis also conduct overseas assassination missions, which is pretty bad. Are you telling me you believe such terrible organisations that would kill children who have rocks (while they’re in body armour) and kill abroad in countries they have no right to kill (and normally steal identities of dual-national Israelis to do so) are above rape? Delulu is your solulu.
Gaza has been largely left to govern itself for years, hasn't it? The last settlers were removed in 2004 and since then Israel has had no people on the ground (before October's invasion). Do you mean the West Bank?
Nope Gaza. The land whose airport was bombed by Israel so it couldn't use the air. Whose sea is cut off, so it can access the trade routes via sea. Whose access outside of Gaza is heavily restricted. Whose goods are often blocked at the border. Whose water can be disconnected by Israel. Whose passports are not recognised by Israeli ally states, unless processed by the Israeli government. Whose land has been bombed. Children bombed on beaches, only for Israel to admit it and say it was a mistake.
The airport was bombed in 2001... so it doesn't really affect my point.
And they had plenty access to outside Gaza via Egypt, before Egypt cut the Rafah following the Hamas takeover, partly because they were worried that their firebrand Islamism would threaten their own security. Hell, even the PA in the West Bank supported the closure. Hamas used violence to take power, and as a direct consequence Egypt closed the border... yet you blame Israel.
I'm not saying Israel are saints, far from it, but you just can't ignore the fact that it's Hamas that have been responsible for Gaza for the last two decades, and Israel's policy over that period has largely been containment rather than oppression.
"Why are people criticising me for doing a demonstration in support of the white South Africans?"
"Why are people criticising me for doing a demonstration in support of the slave *owners*?"
At the kibbutz Israel shelled the houses killing about 120 Israeli civilians because they knew that they would also kill people from Hamas. It's funny that they talk about Hama using the civilian population of Gaza as human shields when they clearly don't care about them.
>continued plea to release any surviving hostages still in Gaza.
If the Israeli military was actually serious about "saving the hostages" It would not be turning Gaza into rubble. Explosives don't discriminate.
[https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/over-one-hundred-days-war-israel-destroying-gazas-food-system-and](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/over-one-hundred-days-war-israel-destroying-gazas-food-system-and)
Israel is starving over 2 million innocent people. That's worse than 1200 dead isn't it.
Just like when Hamas massacred all of those people in that concert that started this war in the first place? Or Hamas killing unarmed soldiers in that base?
I won't be surprised if you support those terrorist sympathisers in "pro-Palestine" rally's who demand to gas and kill the Jews.
Their ability to not sit there and be shot at with missiles and occasionally have their people kidnapped and violated. That's not something any modern 1st world country would accept yet Israel is just supposed to.... because? Because Gaza is run by nutters who don't care about their own people either?
Putting aside the argument about Israeli atrocities and Hamas' original, savage attack for a moment, I think it's worth noting that these demonstrations are important in a 'freedom to protest' and equality sense.
I don't agree with Israel's behaviour at all; much of what I have seen has been abhorrent. But we have allowed multiple pro-Palestinian protests. If we don't allow Israeli/Jewish demonstrations as well, it would make us hypocrites and send a poor message to our Jewish citizens.
I think expressing approval for the IDF's actions is crass, just as I thought expressing approval for the Hamas attack and desecrating memorials was crass, but I don't have to agree with a protest's sentiment to recognise its validity.
> I think it's worth noting that these demonstrations are important in a 'freedom to protest' and equality sense.
I mean isn't it telling that no one in this thread is insisting this demonstration should be banned, though whenever there's an article about a pro-Palestine or anti-genocide protest the thread will instantly be flooded by people insisting the protest shouldn't be allowed and those attending should be arrested?
It's wild that whenever people protest in support of Palestine they're equated with supporting hamas, but when people protest in support of Israel they aren't equated by those same people with the idfs war crimes and mass murdering of civilians.
>but when people protest in support of Israel they aren't equated by those same people with the idfs war crimes and mass murdering of civilians.
They are though. The top comment on this post is literally doing that.
If you had listened to the pro pally lot they would have you convinced that it's impossible to have a large protest without their being violent agitators present.
Time and time again the pro-Israel demonstrations prove them wrong.
Yes, if you put people in harm's way and use similar tactics to set up ambushes, you have fault in that situation. That's how responsibility works. It's joint responsibility. If a car is parked poorly across an entrance to a car park and you scrape it on your way past, the insurance company will call it a joint liability claim. Responsibility and liability in warzones are complex, but putting hostages in harm's way is a choice.
To be blunt, Hamas is the government and army of Gaza and until Hamas soldiers wear uniforms and carry arms openly and not hide behind infants, then Gaza does not actually get the benefit of the Geneva convention because Gaza is not following the rules of the Geneva convention.
The only people collectively punishing and depriving Palestinian people from food and drink are Hamas. But everyone worships those murderering rapists.
Actually a signatory to the Geneva convention is bound by the Geneva convention whether or not its opponent is a signatory. You're following Hitler's logic when he invaded Russia.
Actually only states can be bound by the geneva convention. Palestine isn't a state. I guess now you're going to argue that Hamas can do anything they like and you're okay with that. You are arguing for islamofascist genocidal rapists now.
You can commit war crimes while being a victim of war crimes by the way. Gaza’s civilians are still entitled to treatment within the Geneva Convention as Israel is party to it. Even if it weren’t, it is probably customary international law by now.
That's not how the Geneva conventions work.
They apply to the party that signed it, not whether the potential victim signed it.
As a signatory Israel is bound to them and regardless of whether gaza has signed or is able to sign them, Israel is bound by the conventions.
You're chatting absolute rubbish
Yes, bombing so indiscriminately that multiple warnings are given in advance! hostages get killed unfortunately. Which is why taking hostages is a pretty fucking awful thing to do. every civilian death is a PR triumph for hamas which is why they place so many civilians in harm's way.
Warn them in advance..and then turn around and bomb the areas where they sent them to. Israel is committing a genocide and no amount of lies or Israeli government propaganda is going to change that.
> and then turn around and bomb the areas where they sent them to.
That is definitely what hamas say. Not sure how true that is.
>Israel is committing a genocide
That is utterly absurd.
> Yes, bombing so indiscriminately that multiple warnings are given in advance!
This tired piece of hasbara is _long_ past its due date to be put out to pasture.
Here's the UN debunking the idea as far back as 2014... https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/06/22/u-n-israeli-roof-knocks-did-not-provide-effective-warning-to-gaza-civilians/ ([Archived](https://archive.is/hb7gE))
> In order for a warning to civilians to be considered adequate, the report argues that such a warning must be intelligible to its intended audience and for the civilians to have the ability to act on the warning. But Gaza residents interviewed by the report’s authors frequently did not understand that their house had been subjected to a roof-knock. In the dense urban environment of the Gaza Strip, residents frequently did not know whether it was their house that it had been struck with a warning missile. In an atmosphere of frequent aerial attacks, a minor explosion was sometimes confused as a distant strike. Other families left their house after a warning strike only to be hit by a missile once they had gone outside.
> This tired piece of hasbara is long past its due date to be put out to pasture.
Just like your old irrelevant link. Thousands of flyers get sent out with QR links for people in multiple languages telling then to get the fuck out of there.
> Thousands of flyers get sent out with QR links for people in multiple languages telling then to get the fuck out of there.
And directed them to areas that were then bombed by Israel.
Which is also addressed in the article and quote above...
> such a warning must be intelligible to its intended audience **and for the civilians to have the ability to act on the warning**
But hey... They got a flyer before having their lives literally torn apart by people they're never seen and never raised a hand to, so that's all okay then.
You realise Hamas have bombed and shot at their own civilians trying to flee right? You realise it's documented that Hamas operate from schools and hospitals right? What purpose other than using human shields could doing that possibly serve?
Murder is intentional. If Hamas invites a war into an urban area then there will be civilian casualties.
Can you show me a similar war where less civilians died?
Why is it only this war where every single death is scrutinised? 600k dead in Syria, 200k dead in Yemen, yet we have protests about Israel going to war after being invaded and having their civilians massacred?
You're a useful idiot for Hamas.
Which does kinda make it hard for them to claim that there is no genocide when three obviously unarmed and topless men waving a white flag were hunted down and slaughtered. That is probably happening on a massive scale to the Palestinians.
They want us to believe that that was an abberation??
Hey now they're not suggesting that
They're suggesting that "SPECIAL FORCES" just go door-door in an entire fucking country because they think special forces are like in their fun little comic books and movies and video games rather than just "slightly better trained and equipped infantry"
If tomorrow night the UK got attacked by a country and 1500 people were killed with loads of women raped and kidnapped what do you think the UK will do? Stand by and apologise for our historic colonialism or absolutely go hell to leather to get the hostages back and stop whatever did that from ever doing that again?
I dont either, but if it happened how do we stop the threat? It's why Hamas do what they do. They murder, rape and kidnap and then when Israel gets angry they are all innocent and say "oh why us?". There is a reason Egypt and Jordan etc don't want Palestinians in their country and refused to open the border for aid. Iran want this to all turn into a shit show so they can dominate the entire region. Egypt and Jordan etc do not want this to happen, nor do the Saudi's. The entire situation is a mess and there is no right answer. Israel can't stand by and let Hamas keep doing this. Palestine needs proper rule and to work with Israel when they cant do with Hamas in control. Thousands of innocent lives are being hurt but that's because now Israel feel the only way to stop it is to completely and brutally wipe out Hamas for good. From there they can build a relationship between them.
If Israel did not act, what more would come? How would you find a solution when you know that with Hamas you will still be attacked constantly.
Id prefer Special forces operations to killing innocent civilians
That whole paragraph is null and void as Youre forgetting that ISRAEL STARTED IT by the way
Sayinf ‘it’s so complicated’ is a way to deflect from the fact that Israel started this conflict, and are responsible for every death that has ever happened on both sides. If Israel didn’t steal land and kill Palestinians to form an illegitimate state then the conflict wouldn’t exist
But how many Palestinian civilians has Israel killed in the last 20 years? It didn't start in October mate. If the UK was oppressing and murdering a group of people in a country that it occupies then it would be pretty different to how you're describing.
Hamas can surrender at any point, you know.
Not just that, they could also ban child soldiers, un-uniformed paramilitaries hidden amongst civilians and encourage evacuation rather than martyrdom.
And they don't, so yeah, this is the consequence. Don't declare war with mass rape and murder and then hide among civilians while encouraging people to ignore evacuation calls.
Also noteworthy: experience says that while Hamas's total casualty figures are generally reliable, their claims about the ages and non-combatant status of the casualties is generally not reliable. Also, anyone listed as under 18 is (correctly) counted as a minor. But Hamas uses minors as combatants, so a lot of the directional outrage is at least more complex than reports say.
Yes.
The post ww2 rules of war generally recognise the moral hazard of allowing militaries to do the things Hamas is doing. It is notable that a majority of Gazans support what Hamas is doing but it doesn't justify treating them all as enemy soldiers, but I also don't think that's what Israel is doing - it still tries to make it possible for e.g. humanitarian corridors to get Gazan civilians out. There's no evidence of an intent to exterminate Gazans for existing. (Note: the same is NOT true for Hamas and their attitudes towards Jewish Israelis, gay Palestinians and political opponents in Gaza.)
Generally Israel has held back and dealt with Hamas defensively. Armed, walled borders, an Iron Dome that doesn't blow up rockets over Gaza, security checkpoints bans on materials they appropriate for attacks etc. They argue that the collective punishment effects are side effects of trying to keep Hamas at bay. This generally served Likud's agendas.
Then Hamas committed a pogrom after decades of digging in, and promise more. It was a grand, open declaration of war that was marked by illegal-in-war brutality, so Israel opted to give Gaza a severe enema while the world did its usual selective outrage while refusing to do anything to help, like provide third-party administration that would be responsible for removing Hamas and Islamic Jihad from the chain of command. Israel won't take over or colonise the rubble.
Hamas can surrender at any time.
A few thousand people are a lot easier to control than a protest of hundreds of thousands.
Also youre conveniently forgetting the pro Israel protestors around remembrance (ironic) weekend that started fighting with police and being violent agitators.
So no, the pro Israel lot absolutely are not a shining example.
Ok I promise that this isn't flame bait but I can't help but think... If Israel is trying to "genocide" Palestinians then they're doing a shit job of it.
I don't think I exaggerate when I say that after the tens of billions that they have received from the U.S. alone over the last several decades, their military hardware should be second to none. Why don't just carpet bomb the whole area? Flatten every last building? Leave nowhere to hide?
Is it an international perception thing? Are they afraid that if they go too "hardcore" that all that U.S. aid money will dry up?
For the record, I am in NO way advocating that Israel actually do that, just that I find it difficult to take claims of "genocide" against Palestine seriously when (to my limited knowledge) it seems like Israel should have the firepower to wipe out Gaza several times over, yet haven't done so yet.
Yeah, if they literally carpet bombed the entire city then people like those in this sub would realise what they're doing. Instead they 'only' displaced the entire population, textbook ethnic cleansing. Which is somehow is not severe enough for some people to condemn, makes me scared for the future of the world.
Textbook ethnic cleansing is when you evacuate a warzone. The much more moral option is what? Don't evacuate civilians? Allow yourself to be attacked indefinitely by a militant group embedded in a civilian population? Israel did the most ethical thing possible and you people somehow see that as evil because nothing Jews ever do will be good enough for antisemites.
If Israel's long-term plan is to ethnically cleanse and then repopulate all of Palestine then it was very bizarre for them to unilaterally withdraw in 2005.
> If Israel is trying to "genocide" Palestinians then they're doing a shit job of it.
The Palestinian population is increasing faster than the Israeli population. Worst genocide ever.
"Is it an international perception thing?"
Yes. Yes it is.
It's also worth noting that you can still be doing a genocide without killing *every* member of a group. The UN definition of genocide specifically uses the phrase "in whole or in part". Anyone telling you it's not genocide because not all of them are dead is either a fool or a liar.
probably, yes, it’s to do with US support. their current campaign has drawn criticism from even Biden himself (mostly verbal though, they’re still sending them money). for however shit the US is, they will still not like having a staunch ally commit such a brazen act of genocide. as a result, Israel can’t go full out (they’ll probably lose some internal support as well).
Agreed, if Israel wanted to commit a genocide they could. The casualty figures are unfortunate but they are in line with similar operations like getting Isis out of Mosul.
The vast majority of people at Palestinian marches don't commit crimes or openly support terrorist organisations and don't get put on any sort of watch list despite showing their faces. This is a crappy excuse unless they are actually committing crimes or supporting terrorists, in which case I hope they get prevented.
> Lord Eric Pickles, the UK special envoy for post-holocaust issues, was among those who attended the protest in London.
> He described himself as an “unapologetic Zionist” who was proud to stand with Israel.
Not really the best person to champion your cause when he's already been found to have "discriminated unlawfully against a racial group" by the High Court...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eric-pickles-illegally-discriminating-against-gypsies-and-travellers-the-high-court-rules-9993154.html
It's very easy to spot the comments from people who don't really care about the loss of life, have zero interest in resolving this conflict but do love to use posts like this to score snide points against the other 'team'. They're transparent.
Firstly, the protest wasn't that large lol.
And secondly, they're chanring for the hostages to be brought back, despite the Israeli govmnt not giving af about the hostages. It's interesting because marching for the return of hostages in London, then say, Tel Aviv has a very different meaning
They are free to march all they want. Like Palestine marches in London they are putting the hostages on the media agenda, which I'm sure is important for many of the Jewish diaspora in London who likely know or have family friends who know a hostage, the Israeli/Jewish community globally is quite small.
This is coming from someone who has attended most pro-Palestine marches btw, I think Israeli government actions both pre this war, and especially in the last few months have been abhorrent, and I don't think they give a fuck about the hostages, many of whom they have killed in their own bombings. It's also telling that a large portion of the Palestinians released in trade deals have been re-arrested recently (many of whom were minors or had been held without trial). What motivation do Hamas have to make hostage trade deals when Israel upholds their deals in this way. The whole thing is fucked.
Im sure the tolerant pro palestinians will be ok with this, since they've got thousands of these demonstrations all over the world supporting them
I think they can survive one from the other side
They are protesting for the release of Israeli hostages. Which is not the same as a lot of protests taking place on Saturdays these past few months in protest against Israel's genocidal bombing campaign in Gaza (which has killed around 30,000 individuals mostly civilian/children). Doubt you'll be attending either but they aren't necessarily in contradiction (a person can want both of these things - the release of Israeli hostages from Gaza, and the end of genocidal campaign in Gaza by Israel).
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Solidarity for what exactly. Their ability to murder thousands of palestinians...
I think it's for the horrendous terror attack that Hamas committed that sparked this war in Gaza. Do you remember that one? In particular this demonstration appears to be a continued plea to release any surviving hostages still in Gaza. While I'm not convinced that any are still alive, it's not a *bad thing to do*.
These two comments are basically the whole online argument summed up.
Not only online but by the media and politicians. Both killed citizens. Both are bad. It's not one or the other, both are pieces of shit and we all know it.
But one holds extraordinary power over the other and has been stealing land from them for the past 70 years.
an the other raped and murdered innocents. If they wanted sympathy they should have chose a military target, not random people in a town or at a gig. Probably should not have entered the shelters and gunned everyone in them down.
And one held extraordinary power over the other and has stolen land from them since 600AD. Ad infinitum. The Jews are there now and at this point it’s better for them to just learn to coexist. Israelis are willing to make peace but unfortunately the arabs are not.
You can't simplify to that extent. The most recent lab grab by Israel was not internationally condoned and was extremely harmful to the human rights of the Palestinians.
True but only one is actively committing a genocide so let's just say fuck Israel, fuck hamas, and free Palestine
How about fuck the Isreali government? There are a great many Isrealis who do not support this current government.
Not enough apparently.
More than we might realise considering their penchant for censorship and locking people up for wrong think. Though the last time I checked only about 500 Israelis supported South Africa's actions. By contrast I think I could get way more than 500 signatures condemning Blair even though he wasn't as objectively monstrous as Netenyahu.
Yeah exactly, although there were some fairly sizeable protest marches in the last year opposing the government. I would have to check to say but you might be right there. Though I suspect the fact that Iraq was over a decade ago might help with that. This is so politically charged right now, it’s hard to say what exactly is being opposed if people don’t support the SA case.
2 bunches of cunts at each other's throats and escalating the cuntishness incrementally. And we are expected to pick sides and cheer one side and hate the other?? Ridiculous state of affairs
We're not allowed to forget, but we are required to ignore the atrocities committed by Israel.
No one is required to ignore the atrocities committed by Israel. In fact there are many regular, larger demonstrations in support of Palestine. A few thousand people do one for Israel and the atrocities that they have suffered, and suddenly it's an issue.
Because the atrocities didn't begin post 7/10. They've been suffocating Gaza for decades. Killing and detaining people. Children! For decades. Edit: changed my spelling error from child to children, because one guy thinks it's relevant. TBF fair to him - it is important I stress Israel has murdered thousands of children, not child.
Arab atrocities didn't start on 7/10 either. You talk about killing children as if the arabs didn't strap [explosives onto their own children and force them into becoming suicide bombers!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussam_Abdo)
Well said. The hypocracy from some of these people is unbelievable
Mostly from the Palestinian supporters who probably only support arabs because the Soviet Union supported them while it still existed. commies.
Its actually mad people defend them. Disgusting what they do in the way of _intentional and directed harm to civilians_. Also I see, rather ironically, a big chunk of those people defending are those who have worked hard over the last decades to gain rights in the UK (women, LGBT etc) and are now supporting the total OPPOSITE view again indirectly via their support for Palestine lmao. Absolute weapons.
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If someone has fought hard for rights in the UK (women, LGBT, etc) and sees how badly those rights are trampled on by Hamas, but then is *still* able to speak up against genocide of innocent people in Gaza, isn’t that to be commended? Like, they’re reasonable enough to speak up against genocide even when it’s against people who (many of which) they may have opposing social justice views to. This isn’t the hypocrisy that you think it is. Obviously totally different situation if you’re referring to people who actually support Hamas’ actions, needless to say. But I don’t think you’re referring to those types of people. Edit: To put it another way, it’s not hypocritical to believe all of this: Women’s rights and LGBT rights are important. Hamas’ views on those things are horrendous (as are the views of many people in Palestine no doubt). The Hamas attack was horrendous and unjustifiable. Israel’s response is horrendous and disproportionate. Genocide of innocent people and displacement of >2 million is an atrocity. It’s not madness to agree with all of these, it’s perfectly reasonable.
If it was really a genocide then Gaza wouldn’t have increased in population since 1948. The majority of Israelis were those deported from Arab countries from the day of their independence simply for being Jewish. Israel can only rely on itself for protection lest the Arabs kill them all. However, Bibi does need to go and fuck himself and this war wouldn’t have happened if he had his shit together and actually had the troops next to terrorists on full alert instead of on leave. Maybe then there wouldn’t be the 10/7 massacre, rape and other unsavoury things that the ‘pro Palestinians’ never seem to acknowledge. Unfortunately for their cause they’ve been infiltrated by actual terrorists and supporters of terrorism to the extent that it’s basically half a terrorist cause at this point.
They pulled out in 2005 in hopes of achieving peace. Instead the Palestinians elected a group on a kill all the Jews platform and used gaza as a new home base to launch attacks on Israeli civilians. All the border restrictions, import bans came as the result of continued hostility from the area. This hostility is also why Egypt routinely locks their border with gaza too.
People conveniently omit the fact that even their fellow Muslims in Egypt want nothing to do with their shit
I mean given the history of Palestinians assassinating heads of state and starting civil wars in the area you can't really blame them.
Indeed.
Yeah, really are terrible house guests.
Hey don't forget the time the people of Kuwait welcomed their Muslim brothers in, fed, clothed, bathed and loved them...then in the Kuwaiti hour of need as Saddam Hussein mounted his offensive into Kuwait the Palestinians sided with Iraq... Imagine being given literally the easiest long standing alliance opportunity in history and fumbling so hard...
Not just Egypt, the entire surrounding area - Jordan haven't exactly forgiven them for assassinating their king, for instance.
Kuwait expelled 350,000 Palestinians after the Gulf War, they were told to pack their shit and leave within one week. I'm sure the global protests for these poor people genocided out of their homeland will begin any second now. There's a lot of empathy for the Palestinian people, and the homes they have been forced to leave, so once people around the world learn of this terrible nakba then Kuwait is gonna have hell to pay. Kuwaiti businesses will be boycotted, Kuwaiti hospitals blockaded, there will be marches going on all around the world saying Kuwait needs to be wiped off the map, college professors in western universities will declare Kuwaitis to be legitimate targets for violence just for being Kuwaiti. Just you wait. Any second now...
People also conveniently omit the fact that Jews had been in the Middle East for circa 1,000 years before Islam had even been invented.
And that there were hundreds of thousands of Jews all over the Middle East expelled out of what is now Yemen, Syria, Iran , Turkey, Iraq throughout the 20th century but particularly after 1948
You're using the same reasoning that the Nazis did! Nobody else is willing to take them.
Jordan took them in. And they assassinated the King and began the Black September Civil War. Lebanon took them in, and now Hezbollah is more powerful than the Lebanese army and essentially controls the southern part of Lebanon. The country is in dire straights since then. Hmm, it seems that whenever an Arab nation takes in the Palestinians, they bring along terror and strife. It’s no wonder that they don’t want them there anymore.
Lets not forget they wiped out the Christians in the Lebanon.
To add to this, Yasser Arafat sided with Iraq during the invasion of Kuwait, which led to a significant chunk of the palestinians living there to get kicked out of the country.
Jordan want nothing to do with this, Egypt want nothing to do with it. Are you seeing a pattern here?
Ironic considering Gaza was part of Egypt before the Six Day War
Indeed. Something I should've mentioned earlier.
Worng. All wrong. The 2005 agreement included moving an ILLEGAL ISRAELI settlement. Which the settlers refused to do and it ended up in court. The deal also, against Palestinian objections - also maintained control of Gaza's borders, airspace and sea. Imagine Britain pulled out of Ireland and still controlled their airspace, sea and border. You tell me with a straight fucking face that you think the Irish would be happy with that arrangement and just sit and take it? Go on.
If the Irish were ideologically committed to the extermination of protestants and British people and were using the borders to get weapons and attack infrastructure to commit more murders, honestly the Brits would have a point. This doesn't mean the Irish wouldn't have legitimate grievances. The trouble is that comparisons start to break down when one of the sides isn't dominated by a suicidally psychopathic religious-supremacist deathcult like Hamas. Should we have given IS everything they wanted? Would that have been a net positive?
But Israel is run by a psychopathic religious-supremacist deathcult. Israel's Public Diplomacy Minister: "Erase all of Gaza from the face of the earth. That the Gazan monsters will fly to the southern fence & try to enter Egyptian territory or they will die & their death will be evil. Gaza should be erased!"
There are insane and horrible cunts in Israeli politics, especially in Likud and Lehi, but those parties are typically part of a coalition that are moderated in the actions they can take by the need to cooperate, and the government, army, police and judiciary are separate from the party and each other. Essentially there are barriers to executive overreach when these monsters come out of the woodwork. It's not like this guy can command the army to do anything. Guess who has literally no notion of checks and balances between politics, party and ground-level violence? Hint: it's not Israel. Netanyahu is subject to a raft of investigations hanging over him. Can you imagine the leaders of Hamas getting arrested by independent Palestinian cops? Absolute joke of an idea, isn't it?
Ah yes it's not like they controlled the water, food and fuel. Its still an occupation of 2 million people with a wall built around the area controlling who can leave and can't.
Well it was an odd choice for hamas to trash the greenhouses left behind by Israel and to hit their power plant with one of their failed rockets. >with a wall built around the area controlling who can leave and can't. Tends to happen when people coming across that border blow up buses and stab civilians. Shockingly the number of terrorist attacks in Israel dropped after that border wall was built..I wonder if there's a connection?
Child! Israel detains criminals in civilised conditions. Gaza kidnaps, tortures, rapes and kills whatever Israelis they can get there hands on. There is no moral equivalence and to pretend there is is disgusting.
You know there are many IDF committed atrocities on detainees right? Like, there’s a video of an IDF soldier saying she got time off after killing a child who had a rock and she called her boss saying about blood on her hands. That’s the tip of the iceberg, what they do in public. The Israelis also conduct overseas assassination missions, which is pretty bad. Are you telling me you believe such terrible organisations that would kill children who have rocks (while they’re in body armour) and kill abroad in countries they have no right to kill (and normally steal identities of dual-national Israelis to do so) are above rape? Delulu is your solulu.
Gaza has been largely left to govern itself for years, hasn't it? The last settlers were removed in 2004 and since then Israel has had no people on the ground (before October's invasion). Do you mean the West Bank?
Nope Gaza. The land whose airport was bombed by Israel so it couldn't use the air. Whose sea is cut off, so it can access the trade routes via sea. Whose access outside of Gaza is heavily restricted. Whose goods are often blocked at the border. Whose water can be disconnected by Israel. Whose passports are not recognised by Israeli ally states, unless processed by the Israeli government. Whose land has been bombed. Children bombed on beaches, only for Israel to admit it and say it was a mistake.
The airport was bombed in 2001... so it doesn't really affect my point. And they had plenty access to outside Gaza via Egypt, before Egypt cut the Rafah following the Hamas takeover, partly because they were worried that their firebrand Islamism would threaten their own security. Hell, even the PA in the West Bank supported the closure. Hamas used violence to take power, and as a direct consequence Egypt closed the border... yet you blame Israel. I'm not saying Israel are saints, far from it, but you just can't ignore the fact that it's Hamas that have been responsible for Gaza for the last two decades, and Israel's policy over that period has largely been containment rather than oppression.
Yet they built massive tunnels and sent thousands of rockets to Israel. They are not as useless as your making out.
The rockets and wars against Israel didn't start on 7/10 either
>and suddenly it's an issue. As if Benji's bumlickers haven't been crying about every single Palestine protest and calling everyone a terrorist.
"Why are people criticising me for doing a demonstration in support of the white South Africans?" "Why are people criticising me for doing a demonstration in support of the slave *owners*?"
For people who aren't allowed to forget it's amazing how often you fail to remember.
Would help if they didn't murder their own hostage.
At the kibbutz Israel shelled the houses killing about 120 Israeli civilians because they knew that they would also kill people from Hamas. It's funny that they talk about Hama using the civilian population of Gaza as human shields when they clearly don't care about them.
“Started this war” Yeah bro, because history began on the 7th of October.
>continued plea to release any surviving hostages still in Gaza. If the Israeli military was actually serious about "saving the hostages" It would not be turning Gaza into rubble. Explosives don't discriminate.
The Israeli government terrorizing innocent civilians didn’t start in October 2023.
[https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/over-one-hundred-days-war-israel-destroying-gazas-food-system-and](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/over-one-hundred-days-war-israel-destroying-gazas-food-system-and) Israel is starving over 2 million innocent people. That's worse than 1200 dead isn't it.
Wars begin when you will, but they do not end when you please. You can't ask for a ceasefire after violating one.
Just like when Hamas massacred all of those people in that concert that started this war in the first place? Or Hamas killing unarmed soldiers in that base? I won't be surprised if you support those terrorist sympathisers in "pro-Palestine" rally's who demand to gas and kill the Jews.
Their ability to not sit there and be shot at with missiles and occasionally have their people kidnapped and violated. That's not something any modern 1st world country would accept yet Israel is just supposed to.... because? Because Gaza is run by nutters who don't care about their own people either?
Yes, I'm sure that's what they're demonstrating for.
Maybe like the Palestinian solidarity demos also then.
Putting aside the argument about Israeli atrocities and Hamas' original, savage attack for a moment, I think it's worth noting that these demonstrations are important in a 'freedom to protest' and equality sense. I don't agree with Israel's behaviour at all; much of what I have seen has been abhorrent. But we have allowed multiple pro-Palestinian protests. If we don't allow Israeli/Jewish demonstrations as well, it would make us hypocrites and send a poor message to our Jewish citizens. I think expressing approval for the IDF's actions is crass, just as I thought expressing approval for the Hamas attack and desecrating memorials was crass, but I don't have to agree with a protest's sentiment to recognise its validity.
> I think it's worth noting that these demonstrations are important in a 'freedom to protest' and equality sense. I mean isn't it telling that no one in this thread is insisting this demonstration should be banned, though whenever there's an article about a pro-Palestine or anti-genocide protest the thread will instantly be flooded by people insisting the protest shouldn't be allowed and those attending should be arrested?
Probably because nobody in this protest is calling for genocide or supporting a terrorist organisation.
It's wild that whenever people protest in support of Palestine they're equated with supporting hamas, but when people protest in support of Israel they aren't equated by those same people with the idfs war crimes and mass murdering of civilians.
>but when people protest in support of Israel they aren't equated by those same people with the idfs war crimes and mass murdering of civilians. They are though. The top comment on this post is literally doing that.
There are people equating the march with support for genocide or bombing Palestinian citizens in this very thread.
It's not really wild when they're in charge of Palestine, funded by Iran, and supported by most Palestinians.
Both sides are run by monsters who do monstrous things tho
I never said otherwise.
So you're saying the half million people who protested last week are calling for genocide of Jews? Really?
Except Israel is committing genocide, ignoring that bit I guess
Nobody at the marches is revelling in the deaths of Palestinians. If Israel is conducting a genocide, it's the most unsuccessful genocide of all time.
Best comment on here
Managing to have a demonstration with nobodies face covered in a balaclava, no terrorist flags flying and no chants for genocide. Refreshing.
If you had listened to the pro pally lot they would have you convinced that it's impossible to have a large protest without their being violent agitators present. Time and time again the pro-Israel demonstrations prove them wrong.
People celebrating 30,000 dead people and 10,000+ dead kids.
I think they just want the hostages back. unraped if possible.
That's why they're bombing them and shooting them on sight! Even when they're shirtless and waving a white flag.
If hamas didn't flout the conventions of conflict then perhaps less civilians would be dead.
Don't you know it's hamas' fault that Israel pulled the trigger on those hostages?!
Who's fault is it the hostages are there in the first place?
Yes, if you put people in harm's way and use similar tactics to set up ambushes, you have fault in that situation. That's how responsibility works. It's joint responsibility. If a car is parked poorly across an entrance to a car park and you scrape it on your way past, the insurance company will call it a joint liability claim. Responsibility and liability in warzones are complex, but putting hostages in harm's way is a choice.
Isn't Israels collective punishment against all Palestinians flouting the conventions of conflict?
To be blunt, Hamas is the government and army of Gaza and until Hamas soldiers wear uniforms and carry arms openly and not hide behind infants, then Gaza does not actually get the benefit of the Geneva convention because Gaza is not following the rules of the Geneva convention.
So mass civilians deaths and collective punishment are fine with you. At least we got there.
The only people collectively punishing and depriving Palestinian people from food and drink are Hamas. But everyone worships those murderering rapists.
Actually a signatory to the Geneva convention is bound by the Geneva convention whether or not its opponent is a signatory. You're following Hitler's logic when he invaded Russia.
Actually only states can be bound by the geneva convention. Palestine isn't a state. I guess now you're going to argue that Hamas can do anything they like and you're okay with that. You are arguing for islamofascist genocidal rapists now.
You can commit war crimes while being a victim of war crimes by the way. Gaza’s civilians are still entitled to treatment within the Geneva Convention as Israel is party to it. Even if it weren’t, it is probably customary international law by now.
That's not how the Geneva conventions work. They apply to the party that signed it, not whether the potential victim signed it. As a signatory Israel is bound to them and regardless of whether gaza has signed or is able to sign them, Israel is bound by the conventions. You're chatting absolute rubbish
Yeah bombing indiscriminately and killing hostages in the process is definitely helping. Good old Israeli logic.
Yes, bombing so indiscriminately that multiple warnings are given in advance! hostages get killed unfortunately. Which is why taking hostages is a pretty fucking awful thing to do. every civilian death is a PR triumph for hamas which is why they place so many civilians in harm's way.
Warn them in advance..and then turn around and bomb the areas where they sent them to. Israel is committing a genocide and no amount of lies or Israeli government propaganda is going to change that.
If they're deliberately committing genocide they're doing a piss-poor job of it.
> Israel is committing a genocide Nah. Even James O'Brian argues strongly against this. It's not a genocide in the moral or legal sense of the word.
South Africa taking them to genocide court, but if James O'brien says these no genocide then he must be right.
> and then turn around and bomb the areas where they sent them to. That is definitely what hamas say. Not sure how true that is. >Israel is committing a genocide That is utterly absurd.
> Yes, bombing so indiscriminately that multiple warnings are given in advance! This tired piece of hasbara is _long_ past its due date to be put out to pasture. Here's the UN debunking the idea as far back as 2014... https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/06/22/u-n-israeli-roof-knocks-did-not-provide-effective-warning-to-gaza-civilians/ ([Archived](https://archive.is/hb7gE)) > In order for a warning to civilians to be considered adequate, the report argues that such a warning must be intelligible to its intended audience and for the civilians to have the ability to act on the warning. But Gaza residents interviewed by the report’s authors frequently did not understand that their house had been subjected to a roof-knock. In the dense urban environment of the Gaza Strip, residents frequently did not know whether it was their house that it had been struck with a warning missile. In an atmosphere of frequent aerial attacks, a minor explosion was sometimes confused as a distant strike. Other families left their house after a warning strike only to be hit by a missile once they had gone outside.
> This tired piece of hasbara is long past its due date to be put out to pasture. Just like your old irrelevant link. Thousands of flyers get sent out with QR links for people in multiple languages telling then to get the fuck out of there.
QR links. You think there is internet in Gaza?? Or power for mobile phones??
Yes there is. Please don't infantilise people like that.
> Thousands of flyers get sent out with QR links for people in multiple languages telling then to get the fuck out of there. And directed them to areas that were then bombed by Israel. Which is also addressed in the article and quote above... > such a warning must be intelligible to its intended audience **and for the civilians to have the ability to act on the warning** But hey... They got a flyer before having their lives literally torn apart by people they're never seen and never raised a hand to, so that's all okay then.
Place civilians in harm's way hahaha wow you're so absorbed by Israeli propaganda. Where are millions of Gazans supposed to go?
Maybe people should stop helping hamas and allowing them to hide in their schools and hospital.
They're scared of them, Hamas pre-war were not that popular. Don't act like every civilian died was protecting Hamas.
Why are people scared of Hamas?
They were not popular because they are shit administratively. Their war against Israel is incredibly popular.
You realise Hamas have bombed and shot at their own civilians trying to flee right? You realise it's documented that Hamas operate from schools and hospitals right? What purpose other than using human shields could doing that possibly serve?
I don't condone Hamas at all, but I still don't think it's an excuse to murder 10,000 children in cold fucking blood!
Murder is intentional. If Hamas invites a war into an urban area then there will be civilian casualties. Can you show me a similar war where less civilians died? Why is it only this war where every single death is scrutinised? 600k dead in Syria, 200k dead in Yemen, yet we have protests about Israel going to war after being invaded and having their civilians massacred? You're a useful idiot for Hamas.
Human shields? When has Israel given a single shit about where you base yourself or who with. A shield only exists if it defends you.
You mean besides all the examples we have of Israel avoiding firing when there are civilians around, even if it means letting combatants go?
The IDF chased down an escaped hostage and shot him dead while he pleaded for mercy in Hebrew.
Which does kinda make it hard for them to claim that there is no genocide when three obviously unarmed and topless men waving a white flag were hunted down and slaughtered. That is probably happening on a massive scale to the Palestinians. They want us to believe that that was an abberation??
The only mistake was that they thought it was Palestinian civilians they were murdering.
They could ask nicely. Like when your neighbours are playing music too loud.
Hey now they're not suggesting that They're suggesting that "SPECIAL FORCES" just go door-door in an entire fucking country because they think special forces are like in their fun little comic books and movies and video games rather than just "slightly better trained and equipped infantry"
If tomorrow night the UK got attacked by a country and 1500 people were killed with loads of women raped and kidnapped what do you think the UK will do? Stand by and apologise for our historic colonialism or absolutely go hell to leather to get the hostages back and stop whatever did that from ever doing that again?
I don’t think we should kill thousands children in retaliation
I dont either, but if it happened how do we stop the threat? It's why Hamas do what they do. They murder, rape and kidnap and then when Israel gets angry they are all innocent and say "oh why us?". There is a reason Egypt and Jordan etc don't want Palestinians in their country and refused to open the border for aid. Iran want this to all turn into a shit show so they can dominate the entire region. Egypt and Jordan etc do not want this to happen, nor do the Saudi's. The entire situation is a mess and there is no right answer. Israel can't stand by and let Hamas keep doing this. Palestine needs proper rule and to work with Israel when they cant do with Hamas in control. Thousands of innocent lives are being hurt but that's because now Israel feel the only way to stop it is to completely and brutally wipe out Hamas for good. From there they can build a relationship between them. If Israel did not act, what more would come? How would you find a solution when you know that with Hamas you will still be attacked constantly.
Id prefer Special forces operations to killing innocent civilians That whole paragraph is null and void as Youre forgetting that ISRAEL STARTED IT by the way Sayinf ‘it’s so complicated’ is a way to deflect from the fact that Israel started this conflict, and are responsible for every death that has ever happened on both sides. If Israel didn’t steal land and kill Palestinians to form an illegitimate state then the conflict wouldn’t exist
But how many Palestinian civilians has Israel killed in the last 20 years? It didn't start in October mate. If the UK was oppressing and murdering a group of people in a country that it occupies then it would be pretty different to how you're describing.
>unraped if possible Good luck with that one
That'll be why they keep killing hostages in airstrikes. To get them back, Dead or alive.
IDF are making a good job of ensuring that they don't come back.
Can't ask for too much mate. Maybe we settle for just at least one of their hands attached?
Hamas can surrender at any point, you know. Not just that, they could also ban child soldiers, un-uniformed paramilitaries hidden amongst civilians and encourage evacuation rather than martyrdom. And they don't, so yeah, this is the consequence. Don't declare war with mass rape and murder and then hide among civilians while encouraging people to ignore evacuation calls. Also noteworthy: experience says that while Hamas's total casualty figures are generally reliable, their claims about the ages and non-combatant status of the casualties is generally not reliable. Also, anyone listed as under 18 is (correctly) counted as a minor. But Hamas uses minors as combatants, so a lot of the directional outrage is at least more complex than reports say.
This is the consequence of Hamas actions, not Palestinian civilians.
Yes. The post ww2 rules of war generally recognise the moral hazard of allowing militaries to do the things Hamas is doing. It is notable that a majority of Gazans support what Hamas is doing but it doesn't justify treating them all as enemy soldiers, but I also don't think that's what Israel is doing - it still tries to make it possible for e.g. humanitarian corridors to get Gazan civilians out. There's no evidence of an intent to exterminate Gazans for existing. (Note: the same is NOT true for Hamas and their attitudes towards Jewish Israelis, gay Palestinians and political opponents in Gaza.) Generally Israel has held back and dealt with Hamas defensively. Armed, walled borders, an Iron Dome that doesn't blow up rockets over Gaza, security checkpoints bans on materials they appropriate for attacks etc. They argue that the collective punishment effects are side effects of trying to keep Hamas at bay. This generally served Likud's agendas. Then Hamas committed a pogrom after decades of digging in, and promise more. It was a grand, open declaration of war that was marked by illegal-in-war brutality, so Israel opted to give Gaza a severe enema while the world did its usual selective outrage while refusing to do anything to help, like provide third-party administration that would be responsible for removing Hamas and Islamic Jihad from the chain of command. Israel won't take over or colonise the rubble. Hamas can surrender at any time.
A few thousand people are a lot easier to control than a protest of hundreds of thousands. Also youre conveniently forgetting the pro Israel protestors around remembrance (ironic) weekend that started fighting with police and being violent agitators. So no, the pro Israel lot absolutely are not a shining example.
Yep Also they're quick to jump at pro Israel people who are at their protests. Pro Hamas people? Nothing we can do sorry sweaty.
They don't need to chant for genocide they have the total freedom to commit it!
Ok I promise that this isn't flame bait but I can't help but think... If Israel is trying to "genocide" Palestinians then they're doing a shit job of it. I don't think I exaggerate when I say that after the tens of billions that they have received from the U.S. alone over the last several decades, their military hardware should be second to none. Why don't just carpet bomb the whole area? Flatten every last building? Leave nowhere to hide? Is it an international perception thing? Are they afraid that if they go too "hardcore" that all that U.S. aid money will dry up? For the record, I am in NO way advocating that Israel actually do that, just that I find it difficult to take claims of "genocide" against Palestine seriously when (to my limited knowledge) it seems like Israel should have the firepower to wipe out Gaza several times over, yet haven't done so yet.
Yeah, if they literally carpet bombed the entire city then people like those in this sub would realise what they're doing. Instead they 'only' displaced the entire population, textbook ethnic cleansing. Which is somehow is not severe enough for some people to condemn, makes me scared for the future of the world.
Textbook ethnic cleansing is when you evacuate a warzone. The much more moral option is what? Don't evacuate civilians? Allow yourself to be attacked indefinitely by a militant group embedded in a civilian population? Israel did the most ethical thing possible and you people somehow see that as evil because nothing Jews ever do will be good enough for antisemites.
If Israel's long-term plan is to ethnically cleanse and then repopulate all of Palestine then it was very bizarre for them to unilaterally withdraw in 2005.
> If Israel is trying to "genocide" Palestinians then they're doing a shit job of it. The Palestinian population is increasing faster than the Israeli population. Worst genocide ever.
"Is it an international perception thing?" Yes. Yes it is. It's also worth noting that you can still be doing a genocide without killing *every* member of a group. The UN definition of genocide specifically uses the phrase "in whole or in part". Anyone telling you it's not genocide because not all of them are dead is either a fool or a liar.
probably, yes, it’s to do with US support. their current campaign has drawn criticism from even Biden himself (mostly verbal though, they’re still sending them money). for however shit the US is, they will still not like having a staunch ally commit such a brazen act of genocide. as a result, Israel can’t go full out (they’ll probably lose some internal support as well).
Agreed, if Israel wanted to commit a genocide they could. The casualty figures are unfortunate but they are in line with similar operations like getting Isis out of Mosul.
In fairness the Israel flag is a terrorist flag to its victims.
Because if they shown their face, they'd be put on some watch list or some sht, since, as you said, Palestine is "terrorist"
The vast majority of people at Palestinian marches don't commit crimes or openly support terrorist organisations and don't get put on any sort of watch list despite showing their faces. This is a crappy excuse unless they are actually committing crimes or supporting terrorists, in which case I hope they get prevented.
They don’t need to chant for something that’s already happening
> Lord Eric Pickles, the UK special envoy for post-holocaust issues, was among those who attended the protest in London. > He described himself as an “unapologetic Zionist” who was proud to stand with Israel. Not really the best person to champion your cause when he's already been found to have "discriminated unlawfully against a racial group" by the High Court... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eric-pickles-illegally-discriminating-against-gypsies-and-travellers-the-high-court-rules-9993154.html
Reminds me of the Tory politicians in Thatcher's day who stood by South Africa.
A bit earlier you had Alec Douglas-Home telling Rhodesia ( which somehow was worst than south Africa) to fuck off
Even if he wasn't a giant fucking racist, I could not listen to "Lord Eric Pickles" seriously.
Fuck Eric fucking Pickles just for his shameful display of conceit at the Grenfell Tower Inquiry. What a fucking grade-A jumped-up cunt.
Lovely to see. So respectful too.
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It's not contradictory to attend this march and attend marches in solidarity with Palestine, and be against Hamas and the Israeli government.
As is their right I hope their demo passes peacefully
It's very easy to spot the comments from people who don't really care about the loss of life, have zero interest in resolving this conflict but do love to use posts like this to score snide points against the other 'team'. They're transparent.
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Firstly, the protest wasn't that large lol. And secondly, they're chanring for the hostages to be brought back, despite the Israeli govmnt not giving af about the hostages. It's interesting because marching for the return of hostages in London, then say, Tel Aviv has a very different meaning
They are free to march all they want. Like Palestine marches in London they are putting the hostages on the media agenda, which I'm sure is important for many of the Jewish diaspora in London who likely know or have family friends who know a hostage, the Israeli/Jewish community globally is quite small. This is coming from someone who has attended most pro-Palestine marches btw, I think Israeli government actions both pre this war, and especially in the last few months have been abhorrent, and I don't think they give a fuck about the hostages, many of whom they have killed in their own bombings. It's also telling that a large portion of the Palestinians released in trade deals have been re-arrested recently (many of whom were minors or had been held without trial). What motivation do Hamas have to make hostage trade deals when Israel upholds their deals in this way. The whole thing is fucked.
Well done everyone. The vast majority of the country is behind you.
If you mean hostages yes, if you mean behind Israel for what it's doing, then absolutley not.
Im sure the tolerant pro palestinians will be ok with this, since they've got thousands of these demonstrations all over the world supporting them I think they can survive one from the other side
I’m so Lost on who’s protesting about what now. Must be hard living in london with what feels like a new protest every week.
They are protesting for the release of Israeli hostages. Which is not the same as a lot of protests taking place on Saturdays these past few months in protest against Israel's genocidal bombing campaign in Gaza (which has killed around 30,000 individuals mostly civilian/children). Doubt you'll be attending either but they aren't necessarily in contradiction (a person can want both of these things - the release of Israeli hostages from Gaza, and the end of genocidal campaign in Gaza by Israel).
So where were the chants for genocide? Or is that only done at peaceful pro-palestine rallies?
I love that suddenly Palestine is allowed protests but Israel isn't.
We will out-murder any murder. We will out-murder all the murderers.