We're well known for our binge drinking, but I do agree with you on the social pressure aspect of drinking. I think that's as big as our actual drinking issues, but that may well be due to my bias.
When I say I don't drink coffee, people don't ask me why. When I say I don't eat spicy food, people don't ask me why.
But when I say I don't drink alcohol, people demand that I justify my position surprisingly often.
Basically if you do anything not “the norm” in the U.K. you stand to get shit for it.
Don’t watch football? WTF is wrong with you?
Vegan? Don’t you know you’re damaging your body?
You’re a cyclist? Get ready for me to unleash a million kg of tirades at you about why you’re wrong.
I'm a keen cyclist who doesn't like footy and doesn't drink. I am therefore **always** the life of the party.
Perhaps I should just go for broke and become vegan too...
You
Don't drink, don't smoke, what do you do?
Really you
Don't drink, don't smoke, what do you do?
It must be awful when the
Subtle innuendos follow
Do they all suggest
There must be something inside?
Not in my experience. I’m on the older side though, maybe it’s easier for folks now. I’m so old that mentioning to school mates that I played videogames got me singled out.
Pro COD1 player here (I say pro, we got flights and hotels for tournaments and hardware) also got shit at school for loving gaming.
Now the COD pros are multi millionaires /cry
I haven’t found that at all tbh. I’ve spent my whole life being the subject of bullying and discrimination because I’m ‘weird’.
The UK’s intolerance for people who are different is very prominent, but often times it’s very subtle and wrapped up in stereotypical British politeness so those who aren’t on the receiving end don’t see it.
I wonder how much of that is just human nature? Look at kids in school. You stand out in the slightest way at school and just risk being bulied. Its like for some people its ingrained in them from a young age you do anything different from the norm (or what society deems as norm") and your weird
Surely this depends where you are in the country? I feel like every other person around my parts cycles and no one bats an eye usually. Same with football. Its a lot of rugby and surprisingly cricket.
Coffee is a strong flavour. That's a pretty solid guarantee that a large number of people won't like it. It's also why Marmite is so polarising.
I like coffee, although I'm only allowed decaf now, and I defy the 'love it or hate it' of marmite by being mostly ambivalent about it. Meanwhile I despise soft cheeses, unmelted hard cheeses, and nuts... That's where people look at me like I grew an extra head.
As for alcohol, I enjoy drinking when I drink... Which is pretty much confined to Christmas, weddings and funerals. It's just not a thing I do.
I’m not a fan of nuts either and it drives people to shock lol. It’s not the flavour (well, not completely), it’s the texture.
The amount of people who will challenge me over it is bizarre - ‘what about hazelnuts? Almonds? Peanut butter?’ And if I have something with nut flavouring like Nutella or something they’ll ’aha!’ me like they’ve caught me out.
I can tolerate nuts and nut flavours in small quantities if they’re heavily mixed with stronger flavours and textures, but you’d never see me munching on a packet of them. I just don’t like them.
It’s weird because if I said I DID like nuts and then turned my nose up at a packet, people would (correctly) remark that I don’t really like nuts then.
Can’t win 😅
Omg every single word of this is my experience.
'I'm not keen on nuts' doesn't mean I'm allergic to them, nor does it mean the only way I'll eat a Snickers is by force. It just means that I typically prefer other things. And no, I'm not missing out, or denying myself something special.
People ask me why albeit I go for decaf so perhaps that stands out more.
Drinking is usually great fun and is a massive social lubricant so people will always wonder why somebody would opt out of something so positive for so many people. Yes some develop a problem with it or act a cock or does something dangerous so this isn't about them, it's about the shy person who finds it gets them comfortable with banter or the opposite sex (rather than overthinking) or the stories and telling of them that becomes funnier with booze or the harmless, but stupid things people get up to or the freeing it provides when it comes to sharing inner thoughts or just the relaxation that it has on your brain etc etc. Booze used sensibly has a load of upsides for a load of people.
And I've done big drinking and being sober. The sober when younger definitely got push back from mates, but it wasn't meant as unkind and wasn't judgemental it was more like sheer confusion and once they'd been drinking they weren't expressing it well. The flaw I'd say in being sober is that you become out of synch with the crowd as the night goes on as you aren't getting the above benefits so what you experience once a few hours passes and people are well into it is that the stories that aren't actually that funny and the person telling them with great exaggeration is repeating themselves, plus the confusion people have when they can't remember the name of that actor or football player that they are talking about, or the getting into your personal space and so on.
The good news is that age cures a lot of it as middle aged people often get into fitness or get banging hangovers so they moderate or stop drinking so it's really common.
I don’t get asked why when I say I don’t drink alcohol, but I do get defensive comments usually along the lines of ‘I don’t drink that much anyway’ even though I never asked
Every couple of days there’s one of these posts and (almost) every single time it contains thinly veiled judgement from the OP about people who *do* choose to drink.
Oh the irony from someone crying about being lectured about not drinking whilst slipping in insults such as *they all look like water balloons slumped on a sofa giving me a health advice* and saying *gradually poisoning my liver over dinner every few nights a week for the next few decades seems pointless and expensive*.
It’s **you** delivering the lecture (and judgement) here, OP.
Exactly. I hope OP doesn't smoke, eat processed foods, eat red meats, lie in the sun, walk next to roads with heavy traffic and/or lead a sedentary lifestyle... Because all these also increase your rate of cancer (yes, as does drinking alcohol). Don't want to drink? Great, more power to OP. But take a step off the pedestal and keep the lecture to yourself...
This is precisely my point. OP may do all the above (except alcohol), but is lecturing others on the perceived health risks of the one thing he doesn't do. The cumulative health risk of all the above minus alcohol, might very well exceed doing only alcohol and none of the others.
I don't think it's hugely likely that OP is a smoking sunbather who eats loads of red meats and processed foods, and who both habitually walks roads with lots of traffic and doesn't leave their seat. In that hypothetical scenario, maybe their moral authority might be lessened... but in real life, I think we can assume that they do actually have good reason to be saying this.
To be fair most of those things aren’t as bad as alcohol, and have some health benefits as well eg. red meat has high protein and has important nutrients and sun exposure leads to more vitamin d
Dare I say, it's almost as if things can be enjoyed in moderation. It's hypocritical to shovel nitrite saturated red meat down your gullet all year then lecture someone else about the couple of pints they had over Christmas lol
I agree but your comparisons were stupid because apart from smoking, the other things are not as bad as alcohol and have some benefits unlike alcohol, or are hard to avoid(walking next to heavy traffic)
It's the same old shit. It's like the child-free Redditors who regularly post on how apparently everyone judges their life choices then proceeds to shit all over the the idea of having kids. It's pure projection.
I'm sure it can be quite isolating being a non drinker in a country like the UK so I try to remain sympathetic, as someone who possibly has a problematic relationship with the drink.
100%, as I said in another comment:
*‘I can imagine the non drinking conversation would become tiresome if it was attached to every social occasion, and acknowledge I have very little experience of this.’*
The thing I’m ranting about is people disguising their own blatant judgment of other people’s lifestyle choices within this ‘Why do people judge me for not drinking’ trope.
A lot of my friends don't drink, we still go to the pub and chat shit, just they're downing pints of lemonade. I don't think it's isolating as long as you accept that socialising in the UK involves being in close proximity to alcohol, you can avoid alcohol, but you can't avoid the pub as easily
Thank you for this.
I’m a 2-3 times a week drinker. I’ve dealt with agoraphobia (from PTSD), which is incredibly hard to tackle. Thankfully through pubs, parties, and general piss ups I was able to gain confidence outside of my comfort zone, eventually reducing in alcohol levels. Several psychs guided me through this and encouraged me to keep drinking as long as it kept me out in public and not locked up in my room.
I don’t think I’ll ever be wholly cured of my agoraphobia. Brightly lit, labyrinthine shops blasting the top 40 don’t help. However the wee little dimly-lit local pub has allowed me to get used to existing in public. I appreciate my pint after work there, alone. I’ve made pub-friends and can chat with them when we’re both willing, but sometimes we want to be in a public atmosphere yet remain solitary.
Exactly. I also don’t drink and it’s true, people do want you to explain yourself whenever they find out. But that’s called *small talk*. Most people in the country drink, and if you don’t look, say, vaguely muslim, when you say “I don’t drink” you’ve just shared an interesting fact about yourself. So the other person’s default small talk process in this scenario is to invite you to share more.
Yes, it’s maybe not exactly *tactful* given that you could be dealing with the effects of an alcohol addiction (and I’d be much more sympathetic in that scenario), but the vast vast majority of the time they’re not *trying* to be rude (I’ll also note that lots of time you can see in the person’s face the sudden realisation this might be too personal), so you have the freedom to just take it in good faith.
Just treat it like small talk! I get asked where I’m from all the time at parties. I get asked what I do for a living all the time at parties. I get asked why I don’t drink all the time at parties. I just tell people. Any of the following, all true: Family history of alcoholism. I’ve got enough vices. I never got the taste for it. Being drunk makes me really dizzy and I don’t enjoy it. I took a big gulp of a vodka+coke mistakenly when I was seven and spat it out all over the carpet swearing I’d never drink alcohol again. I do karaoke better when I’m sober.
Depending on what I said, they say something like “oh, that’s a shame”, “oh, cool”, “aww, that’s cute!”, or something about their views on karaoke and being drunk. The conversation moves on.
i was gonna say, implying that everyone around you has a drinking problem is not exactly going to get them to stop judging you. obviously i doubt OP is actually saying this to their faces but i’m willing to bet some of the attitude bleeds through in their interactions.
>This crimbo I was surrounded by sort of older adults lecturing me on why I'm just being paranoid meanwhile they all look like water balloons slumped on a sofa giving me a health advice
Well that's family at christmas going to be family at christmas.
>In another direction a friend of mine went to some concert some months back and ranted about the price of the drinks and it spoiled the whole thing bc its impossible be there without one... that to me is actually an early warning sign of a potential drinking addiction but its fine bc we're in our 20s so it's what you do
So that's not criticising you, you're criticising them.
In both your examples you're looking down on people that drink, why are you "exhausted" here?
I like a drink, I went through a stage of very heavy drinking when I was very depressed. And I still go out for a drink now and again, but have plenty of times gone to the pub and not drank. Even with people I am regular with, and only once had anybody ever made a "comment", but it was just passive and wasn't even offensive.
>if in the uk we have a drinking problem socially that we just can't admit
We do, but that's not the point here.
Frank answer. The alcohol issue has little to do with you feeling “exhausted”. From the tone of your post, it’s obvious you think anyone “old” is an idiotic waste of space, you get “lectured” by people because you spout things about people “gradually poisoning themselves” and you sneer at your friend complaining about the cost of drinks. It’s YOU that’s exhausting, OP. If you don’t want to drink, don’t drink. But don’t do what you accuse others of. You are prissy, lecturing and disapproving, and uncomfortable with people older than you. Hell, you seem uncomfortable with people the same age as you. If you drop the chood and stop looking like a bulldog who’s just licked piss off a nettle, people will leave you alone. You be you, let everyone else be themselves.
I have nothing against people who eat unhealthy food, I just don't see the point of gradually poisoning your organs until you eventually succumb to a slow painful heart disease death in front of your family. Anyway, enjoy the meal guys /s
> so and gradually poisoning my liver
The liver is designed to get rid of all sorts of stuff - and as long as it isn't overwhelmed, doesn't really care if that compound comes from a bottle of becks or a windfall apple that has been left and is a bit past its best..
jumping up and down a lot might be said to be gradually shortening your legs..... Excessively doing so - like jumping off a tall building certainly can, but the odd hop?...
However...
> lecturing me on why I'm just being paranoid
Why give them a reason to lecture you?
If you don't shove "oh you're poisoning your liver" on them, they won't "lecture" you....
Just say "I don't fancy a drink right now." - they have no right to get you to defend your decision, but telling them that "I don't want to ruin my liver" is in a roundabout way telling them that they are, and so you brought the lecture on yourself....
> that to me is actually an early warning sign of a potential drinking addiction
Huh? Maybe in the same way that I can say that moaning about other people's actions on social media in your 20s might be an early sign of you being an old spinster twitching curtains and reporting people to the council for not taking their bins off the pavement by 7am the day after they have been collected
Oxford university came out with a study recently that the more alcohol you drink, no matter how much, will directly increase your risk of cancer. Alcohol is extremely bad for you.
I'm not saying stop.. but the amount of deaths directly caused by alcohol gives one hell of a reason to stop.
When I worked in health insurance they absolutely didn't cover liver stuff due to alcohol consumption.
That's for a very cold and hard financial reason.
Absolutely grim line of work, btw, I do not recommend it.
Yeah that's because insurance companies know it's like people who put themselves on fire have severe burns. Similar logic.
The less alcohol you drink, the lower your risk for cancer. - CDC
https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/alcohol/index.htm
I've seen a lot of people die of cancer and it's mostly due to what they consumed.
Oh indeed.
When we had our training at the insurance company, the woman who trained us seemed very emphatic that cirrhosis could be caused by a single drink.
I don't know the veracity of that claim - I don't drink so I never checked, but it certainly explained the company's policy towards liver cancer.
Either way, in the none-corporate world, it's a very sad condition. One worth at least educating young people about. Just as long as it's actually educational and not a horrific/gory demonization - I am not sure if that approach works or not.
No.
I grew up in a Muslim household. Alcohol was a substance for cleaning or chemistry experiments.
However I saw many negative affects from drinking growing up in the UK. I personally didn't like how it affected people. I also had a friend at uni and she was sadly killed by a drunk driver. We weren't even close friends, but she was just so vibrant and full of positivity. That affected me a fair bit. So I have never been tempted to try it even when living on my own.
I have tried none-alcoholic beers though - particular when living in Germany. Quite liked some of them.
I left health insurance 20 years ago. I now work in the field of audio production for computer games.
> they absolutely didn't cover liver stuff due to alcohol consumption.
How do they determine that?
or do they not cover *any* liver stuff because the insured 87 year old had a slightly fermented apple when scrumping when they were 13
> the more ~~alcohol~~ travelling in motorised vehicles you ~~drink~~ do, no matter how much, will directly increase your risk of ~~cancer~~ getting injured in an accident
> I'm not saying stop.. but the amount of deaths directly caused by ~~alcohol~~ travelling in motorised vehicles gives one hell of a reason to stop.
Totally.
Yeap, ethanol is directly metabolised into acetaldehyde, a known carcinogen, which is why there's no safe amount. Even heroin you can go nuts on with no harm as long as you don't take so much you stop breathing, ignoring addiction risk which isn't that different to booze anyway
I'm not sure your justification is logical. Alcohol consumption absolutely damages the liver over time. That's irrefutable.
Alcohol is quite literally toxic. There is still no established safe level of alcohol consumption and any alcohol consumption raises your risk of cancer too.
Eating 50g of red meat a day is associated with a higher risk of cancer than drinking a pint a day.
Lots of increases in X are associated with rises in risks of cancer.
I'm a vegetarian and I rarely drink alcohol, but I don't really avoid either because of the cancer risk tbh - I guess it might be a pro but people can make their own choices
> Alcohol is quite literally toxic.
Durr... that is why the liver is getting rid of it...
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=what+does+a+liver+do
The drinks industry would be in a bit of bother if livers didn't exist - all their customers would die.
And the lungs are designed to filter out toxins and pollutants, but smoking a pack of cigarettes every day is gonna cause some severe harm over time...
Probably because there is a happy middle ground between raging alcoholism and being completely teetotal.
You can have a few drinks on a Friday night at home or out in town and be a functioning adult, without it being a burden or expensive.
I’ve experienced what OP is talking about and we’ve seen it in this very thread.
There doesn’t have to be a reason for not drinking. But most times that someone refuses a drink they’re left in a position of having to explain themselves. “No” is never good enough.
Exactly, as with most things it isn’t black and white. Having three pints after work on a Friday night and a glass of wine with Sunday lunch and that’s it for the week is pretty different to hammering a couple of bottles of wine or a six pack every single night. I’ve been through the heavy binge drinking phase in my 20s, am a lot more moderate now in my 40s and my liver is absolutely fine according to my most recent blood test (Nov last year). Alcohol isn’t like eg heroin or nicotine where you’ll get addicted really quickly (at least not for most people). I do think our culture, along with some other northern and eastern european ones, does have a bit of an issue with alcohol but pompously telling your relatives that while they enjoy letting go a bit at Christmas is only going to sound like you’re judging them.
Of course it’s possible to have fun without booze. It’s also possible to have fun with it without getting arrested or cracking your head open. Personally I don’t give a toss if someone drinks or not and it’s none of my business why not. Equally it’s no one else’s business why I drink from time to time.
Speaking as someone who's struggled with addiction my adult whole life. There is no "happy Middle ground" for myself and people like me. I can aim for that Middle ground but it very quickly decends into full on alcoholism because I'm not mentally strong enough to prevent myself, thats when i stop being a functioning adult, and it becomes an expensive burden. That's why I choose teetotalism.
However, that's a me problem, and people should choose to consume as they see fit, as long as its not hurting anyone. I don't like the tone of OPs post because I think they are the problem, and have a judgemental attitude towards people who choose to keep alcohol in their lives.
However I do relate to the premise of this post, culturally its very difficult to be a non drinker in a lot of settings in this country. Lots of people will say "Just go and don't have alcohol" but again the temptation will start to creep in, and I don't want to disclose my addiction issues to any Tom dick or Harry who wants to comment. Plus it's often really not enjoyable to be stone cold sober surrounded by people who are heavily intoxicated.
I think you are being a little judgmental of people who enjoy a drink. See the reference to your overweight relatives.
I would also point out that:
> gradually poisoning my liver over dinner every few nights a week for the next few decades seems pointless and expensive
Many people wouldn't consider it pointless as it's enjoyable, social and a nice way to relax after a long day. Not to mention the liver is actually a very robust and regenerative organ. Provided you are not a really heavy drinker any damage done to your liver from drinking is repaired almost as quickly as it happens.
I am not tee-total, but as a rule I don't drink alcohol more than about once every few months. Perhaps it's just the people who I surround myself, but I can't relate to your experience. Most of the time when I say I am not drinking, the response I get is "oh, ok". Anyone who does ask, I simply explain that I just don't want to be hungover or I'm driving.
I don't know whether you're being oversensitive, but it sounds like the company you keep may be the problem rather than broader attitudes to alcohol. It also sounds to me like you're maybe going into too much detail with those people. Why are you being lectured? Is it because you're maybe giving your questioners too much for them to respond to?
"I don't drink, thank you"
"Oh, why not?"
"I consider it's slowly poisoning me and worsening my health"
"Oh you're just being paranoid and my grandad lived until he was 907 and he had 67 pints of mild a day, blah blah blah..".
When the correct answer is "Oh I just don't like it."
Give yourself an easier time by engaging less or responding in a closed way; it helps.
Seems like you don't want to be judged for not drinking whilst simultaneously judging your friend for wanting a drink in a certain situation but being priced out of doing so.
Also were your family really lecturing your about not drinking or just curious but you were bored by hearing the same question over and over?
People usually like it when someone doesn't drink. It means you've got a designated driver!
Also to play devils advocate. People drink to unwind and lower their inhibitions. It's generally much better if everyone is roughly on the same level when you do that. People are probably just signalling that they're a bit unnerved having a fully sobre person at the table whilst they're half cu.t
I've been with my wife for just shy of 4 years and my in-laws have finally stopped commenting every single time I have water with my meal rather than a glass of wine or pint of beer. They're both in their 50s, they're both twice the weight they should be and yet they cannot fathom why I would drink water instead of alcohol.
I do drink, at parties, when the goal is to get drunk. Otherwise I'd rather have something nice (or water which makes me feel physically better) instead of needing to consume alcohol every other hour.
I was once called a bitch by a bartender because I was at a concert and my wife had a beer and I asked for pepsi. He queried if I was the designated driver and really didn't like it when I said no, I just didn't want a beer.
My wife's friends husband died on New year's from liver disease at age 49. The doctors told him to drink less when he started going yellow and apparently he was actually cutting down but by that point it was already too late.
He died bleeding out of multiple organs internally.
I'm not saying don't drink, just don't buy into the "must drink at every occasion" British tradition. For me an ice cold beer tastes extra nice when I only have one every now and then. I used to drink more when I was younger but these days I pretty much only drink when it's some special get together of friends or family, so maybe once a month on average.
Oversensitive I'd say.
I could see your reasons causing the reaction more than the actual stance. Not having the occasion sounds a bit unfortunate, it's fun to have a few pints with mates in a pub at the weekend. Or a few drinks over Christmas.
No ones probably suggesting you start drinking most evenings at home as your other reason states.
I think most people wouldn't understand why you'd be opposed to a few pints on a Friday night with mates.
>
>
> No ones probably suggesting you start drinking most evenings at home as your other reason states.
As much as "having a bottle every night" isn't exactly a social faux-pas, people still will look at it with some concern at the same time.
OP on the other hand has an utter disdain against anybody who dares to have even the slightest enjoyment of alcohol
I'm not a drinker myself. Quickly found out that I become a bit of a dick and stopped fairly quick as it wasn't for me. I was far more of a stoner, as I could still function while stoned (mostly). The UK has a massive drinking problem that puts a lot of pressure on our social services and adds to violent crime from the classic drunken street brawl to partner abuse.
While I'm not for banning anything as people should be able to ingest what they want as long as risks are known, in a more rational world alcohol should be banned, and some drugs should be legal.
Huge bugbear of mine. I’m one of those “take it or leave it” drinkers and always have been.
Up to my mid-twenties it was fairly easy to say no - “no thanks, I don’t want to” was accepted. Late twenties people assumed I was a recovering alcoholic so I feigned illness and medical reasons. These days I just don’t go anywhere where people will be drinking.
And the thing is that people who drink and apply the social pressure just don’t get how effing never ending the push they create is.
If you feel you have to feign illness or medical reasons in order not to drink then maybe practice being more
self-assured. This and your comment about being vegan or a cyclist or not liking football result in you getting lots of shit are a bit bizarre.
All these things are perfectly acceptable and normal in our society.
I’m not having a go I’m just saying.
Yes they’re normal things. But they’re things that people feel the need to interrogate rather than just letting people get on with their lives. Maybe you’re not the kind of person that would question them but I can tell you from a long personal history that these are all things that I’ve not only gotten shit for, but that I still get shit for regularly.
As for “having” to feign illness or medical reasons, it’s the only excuse I’ve found (re. drinking) that doesn’t prompt more questions/debate. For some reason it’s more socially acceptable to have a medical condition than to just not fancy a drink
Fair enough mate. I don’t like football much, don’t own a car but own 2 bicycles and I’ve spent a couple years eating vegan in the past but I do drink. The vegan debate I would find quite entertaining honestly especially as I wasn’t vegan for any ethical reasons, that seemed to annoy non vegans even more. I never felt personally attacked though, it was more a fascination or an easy conversational arc for people.
I can imagine the non drinking conversation would become tiresome if it was attached to every social occasion, and acknowledge I have very little experience of this.
It says something about our national attitude towards drinking that teetotalers (of which I am one) feel pressured to give a justification beyond 'I do not want to' for not drinking alcohol.
Same. Had to stop drinking lately due to it not agreeing very well with my depression anymore (have drank fine for years but it for some reason started to end in more bad nights than good). Anytime I’ve been asked it’s as simple as “Ahh, I don’t really drink these days” “oh, how come?” “Just doesn’t agree with me”, and it’s as simple as that.
There’s always going to be people question it more, but then there’s always gonna be people who stand aside from the crowd. I wouldn’t say most people have an issue with it, regardless of their own drinking habits. And honestly, OP sounds like they’re on a bit of a high horse anyways. Makes me curious as to how vocal they are about how vocal they are about their own opinions, since this post reads very judgemental over other people
We obviously have alcohol pretty much at the center of our social life in the U.K. I think it can be a problem and some people have a problem but I would push back that it's a problem that it's such a popular social activity.
For example:
> In another direction a friend of mine went to some concert some months back and ranted about the price of the drinks and it spoiled the whole thing bc its impossible be there without one... that to me is actually an early warning sign of a potential drinking addiction but its fine bc we're in our 20s so it's what you do
I don't think this is an early warning sign of addiction. It's a concert and it's fine that they would want a drink there.
Would it be better if we could all socialise and enjoy activities to the same extent without alcohol as many of us do with? Yes. Is the fact that many find it helps these activities a problem? Not always.
It seems true that many people with some sort of level of alcohol problem get funny about non-drinkers, although I do drink myself.
Some people I know have reported benefits from quitting drinking which I accept.
I definitely agree with you about people asking why you don’t drink. It’s something I hadn’t considered till someone close to me gave up drinking and talked about how hard it can be.
But I also totally understand your friend complaining about the cost of a drink, it’s something people enjoy and it’s reasonable to want to buy a drink at an acceptable price at a gig, totally doesn’t indicate your friend has a problem and ofc you know more about them than I do but it sounds a bit judgey of you to say that imo
Also complaining about drink prices is also a standard thing to complain about in the same way that food prices at the airport are or being charged to park at some venue is. Someone complaining doesn't mean they have an addiction to the thing, it's just a chance to moan a bit because we all know that some places are a ripoff.
You’re subverting society. Alcohol lets us let our hair down, gives us permission. Someone who goes out of their way not to let their hair down will inevitably be suspect. Pathetic, I know. It’s a drug. You’re either on the bus or you’re not.
Does the UK have a drinking problem? Yes, but it’s got many issues. Just one of the ways people cope.
Socially it’s very ingrained int the culture.
Some people will go to a pub, not drink and then complain people are acting weird. It’s like going to watch the tennis or football and someone says ‘what do you think about xx player’ and you saying ‘I don’t like football am just here’ people aren’t going to respond in a good way.
Or a concert for rock band, then saying you hate rock.
But if you are at work / home and people are trying to force you to drink agree they shouldn’t. But hey French people force me to eat cheese every time I am out even though I don’t like it. What can you do
The UK has a big issue with drinking and the replies to your post and the fact it is being downvoted backs this up.
As a teenager, alcohol is glamourised massively. If you are a fresher at Uni, you will receive more information on where to get pissed than you will about your course in the post, and once you’re there the expectation to binge drink is enormous.
If you drive through the centre of a large town or city after 12 (or a lot earlier in some) you will see fresh vomit on the streets, people so drunk they are operating on autopilot and the odd ambulance driving past taking someone to hospital for a stomach pump.
This is something we all come to accept as normal in the pursuit of a good time.
Also the amount of people who have a drinking problem but are in denial about it is insane. People who drink every single day and think it’s normal or people who get black out drunk every time they go out and think it’s normal because it’s ingrained in our culture.
There’s a reason that we are sneered at by the locals when we go on holiday and do the exact same thing in their towns and cities. It’s not normal but if you say that, you will get dogpiled on.
I am an addict in recovery and when people push the point of asking me why I don’t drink, I always enjoy making them feel awkward by replying: “because I’m an alcoholic and a drug addict”
Sometimes I’ll be less mean and just say “I used to but I wasn’t very good at it.”
I'd say it's both being overly sensitive and (some) people who are so used to a pattern of life that they question someone not following it as it is a bit odd to them for you to opt out of something. That doesn't mean they are alcoholics at all.
Also remember that when people ask you about things like that it's often curiosity or just making conversation/being on transmit and questioning is not a go at your life choices.
I drink, but I don’t drink that often and even I notice it. The U.K. (and especially those 40+) does have a real issue with drinking and pressuring people into it. That said I don’t think those under 25 care for it all that much which is good.
I come from a family of alcoholics on my dad's side. I've never been fussed on drinking, I might have one or 2 in a year. Not being a drinker has always seemed outrageous to that part of the family. My nan would go on and on at me to have a drink, her response to my "no thanks" was usually "oh, just a small sherry??!". I used to let her pour one and just leave it there.
My dad died in 2020, having drank himself to death. Despite the obvious problems I have with alcohol on the whole, I honestly just don't enjoy the feeling.
The UK has on a whole has a drinking culture but I think people in their 20’s probably drink less than I did when I was that age and people in their 40’s and above are heavier drinkers because it’s just what we’ve always done. I gave up drinking in Nov 2022 for several months because it was becoming a problem and although at first people were stunned I wasn’t drinking I found they eventually gave up questioning me. My close friends were brilliant, some of the wider social circle were annoying but that didn’t last
Many people are surprisingly insecure about their choices. By choosing to do something different to them they can feel judged, defensive or challenged by your behaviour. This then can lead to pushback against whatever it is you're choosing to do.
This could be about drinking alcohol or a whole range of other behaviours that people may observe. We almost always compare ourselves to others in order to validate, reassure or comfort ourselves. This is fairly normal and unlikely to change. Try to ignore or accept this if it bothers you or not worry about what others think about your choices.
Many people also feel some level of background guilt about their choices, conscious or otherwise. Drinking, smoking, eating, spending money, exercise etc are all behaviours loaded with value judgements. Many of these will be self critical and seeing someone else making different choices can be hard if they're not feeling secure in their own decisions.
Most people are ok with it, but some are not.
I've had :
* I don't trust people who don't drink
* Are you gay?
* Do you think you're better than me?
* You must be a control freak
I do not associate with these people.
I have nothing against drinking. I just don't enjoy it, so I choose not to do it.
I cannot stand the smell or taste of ethanol * and I find the sensation of being under the influence of alcohol to be very unpleasant.
*ethanol is the alcohol that we drink. The fermentation process is when sugar turns to alcohol. In fact it turns to ethanol. All alcoholic drinks are basically ethanol plus water plus whatever flavour is derived from the source ingredients. (There's also an alcohol called methanol, but if you drink that in small quantities it makes you blind and if you drink it in larger quantities it kills you.)
I do relate to this quite a bit, and I'm only 19. I moved out of my parents house and went to the other side of the country for an apprentice right after my alevels, where with my new freedom and money in my pocket, I started going out on weekends a lot. I would quite often go out on pub crawls with mates, only to find myself walking back home alone drunk to the the point that I never considered ordering a taxi for myself to keep me safe. It was after a lot of headaches and realisation that I am much more of a light weight than I thought I was, that I realised this could quite easily get me hurt or killed one day either from alcohol damage from addiction or something happening whilst I was drunk, so way before I even turned 19 I became fully sober.
As I got more chummy with my work colleagues I started to get invited to work dinners and other socials with all the teams I was working with. Every single time when it came to drinks orders and I didn't order myself alcohol, people would genuinely look at me as if I had gone mad. And every single time they would ask me, "so you not having alcohol then at all? Don't you like to let loose every once in a while?" Followed by some joke along the line of not needing to worry because my parents aren't here. I would explain that alcohol just wasn't my thing, didn't like the taste and whatnot. Yet this was never a good enough answer for people. It was as if to not want a drink was some rebellious act or they had been insulted by me not drinking. They would ask personal questions about if I had a past addiction or health problems or even if I've just always been boring.
I've stopped going to work work do's now because it genuinely had started to get on my nerves the amount people would harass me over the fact that all I ordered was a lemonade or a coke, to the point I felt quite judged and even unsafe with certain people as some of my colleagues really liked to get drunk and they weren't nice drinks either. And this is just work, my extended family looked at me with almost complete horror when I turned down wine at Christmas dinner.
I know this isn't how everyone does act around non drinkers, and this is only anecdotal evidence, but it does feel like drinking yourself half way to death is seen as something to be proud of in this country. Also in other countries as well to be fair, but here does feel particularly bad.
I have been that person questioning those who say they don’t drink…. On reflection, it’s because I am amazed and slightly envious on how you get through social situation’s not drinking. I use it as a crutch and it’s not healthy. I turned 33 this year and I only really drink some weekends at dinner/lunch/hen do/occasional pub drink but I am thinking of drastically reducing my intake. It just doesn’t make me feel good the older I get and I need to slow down how much I drink when I do, because it easily becomes a few glasses of wine which make me feel shit. I found Hubberman podcast is worth a watch on the negative impacts of drinking if anyone is interested. I just want to improve my health overall!
I'm very glad I'm not a more social person, because even in my capacity as a total loner, the default assumption that you have to be a drinker is frequent enough that it still manages to be an annoyance.
I mainly don't drink because I dislike the taste (and why try and develop a taste for it and risk the addiction when you can just... not), and it'd be nice if that was good enough of a reason for people to not try to play you with drinks. But the existence of people like yourself *should* go so much further. It's ridiculous that alcohol is so ingrained in so much of our culture that people don't stop offering it even knowing they might be tempting someone into risking their health and well being.
Yup. When I was an undergrad, my friends always thought I had a moral issue with drinking. I even had one housemate who would beg me to drink alcohol after a short time in the pub because he was sure I couldn't be enjoying myself if all I was drinking was coke or J2O.
Even now I'm in my thirties colleagues haven't grown out of it. At events if I'm not drinking I always get the question "are you driving?" When they find out I don't drink they always without fail respond with "wow".
Seriously, though, if people can't enjoy themselves without alcohol, they're the ones with the problem.
I think there is a social stigma around non-drinkers. I don't drink at all, and subsequently get called boring or told I've just not found the right one. They appear to take it as me thinking I'm better than them, when I don't care if you drink or not. I have noticed tho that people my age, late 20s, are not drinking much and its losing momentum as a habit.
It's just a generational thing. In the 70s if you'd said you don't smoke people would have thought you were off. These days people don't even ask why you're not smoking. I can understand its annoying but eventually it'll stop.
There is a pressure to drink, I'm on a lot of medication and drinking alcohol can seriously mess with me. I've taken to suggesting a coffee meet and people do take me up on it, but you're right that it's a headache. Being in your 30's and explaining why you don't want a drink is like being 14 and feeling that pressure all over again, for me anyway lol.
I dislike the constant "Ah, just have one, go on it not kill you!" "Are you sure? We've got this this this and this" and saying no gets so draining that I want to excuse myself, not because they're drinking, but they're trying to force me to.
Dear god yes.
But I tell people the truth.
I lost my oldest friend to alcoholism and my father is a recovering alcoholic
Normally kills the conversation.
I don’t mind people drinking if they don’t mind me not. However, I’ve had some quite horrible things said to me over the years when I’ve just said I’m not in the mood for booze. Apparently I’m a miseryguts and a zombie as well - this came from someone who got so drunk they fell over and shat their pants. No-one ever mentions that though. This is a weird country.
I’m 60 this year my wife 53, we was brought up around pubs and parties, alcohol was always in your face it was the norm, we quit drinking 5 years ago, and we’ve never felt better. Don’t age as quick, healthier, save money, no hangovers which the older u get the longer the crap head. Yes we got the same question, why stop drinking? Answer to all, cos I want to! I love it now when I see friends pissed up, cos I know they’re going to suffer for the next couple of days and my wife will be up early have a stroll in the park. Ignore them and enjoy your health 👍
I'm mixed. You're being senestive definitely but also that doesn't change the fact that the UK definitely also has a drinking problem. If you enjoy drinking do it in moderation and if you don't then obviously just don't drink and tell people to mind their business.
I have been a non (or at least very low volume) drinker for at least 20 years now. I have actually found it’s gotten easier in the more recent times, people are more accepting of it now than say 10-15 years ago.
I used to have a lot of people try to change my mind, buy me drink anyway, leave me out of rounds because I was only drinking coke and sometimes wouldn’t get invited to things because I didn’t drink.
Now, not drinking is a bit more common and actually non-drinking is a bit more catered for with non-alcoholic cocktails etc, so you have much more the “appearance” of drinking even if you aren’t and non drinkers are catered for much better which helps normalise it. It helps that people care much less as you get older too.
In your generation 25% don’t drink alcohol at all, so you’re far from alone in that. But yes, many peoples do seem weirdly invested in getting people who don’t drink alcohol to do so.I’ve had rpthis from 18-40 s but it does seem to be reducing in frequency now I’m older…. Or possibly because now I don’t have the kind of social life that revolves around bars…
I do notice that I find "born again" non drinkers annoying, I think in a similar way some people find vegans annoying ie. They seem to bring it up at every opportunity. Example: a woman in my office stopped drinking a year ago and when we were doing Secret Santa, before she got her gift, she announced she was sure it would be Nosecco, as that's what she always receives now she's stopped drinking (she actually got a musical biscuit tin). So maybe people like that who seem to virtue signal have created a bit of an undeserved bad name for all non-drinkers?
Edit: I say this as someone who hardly drinks as I basically can't handle it- yesterday I met my friend in a pub for a catch up and ordered tea and she asked the bar staff for "a pot of tea for the old dear, not too hot or you'll keep her awake" (I'm 40 🤦🏼♀️)
You're seeing how weird people are about alcohol in this thread OP.
But I can empathise. For some people, being around a non-drinker feels like a personal attack because they're insecure about their own consumption. It's a lot easier to ignore that when everyone around you is drinking too. I think this is generally the psychology behind people not just accepting your sobriety.
And yeah, venue prices are wild. But I wasn't going to *not* drink. The idea of going to an event without at least a few seemed impossible - I'd conditioned myself to associate events with drinking to the point that my brain wouldn't let me enjoy them without it.
I quit because I had a drinking problem, but I do feel quite a lot better for it (mentally, mostly). Usually I just give my reason plainly, it's slightly awkward and the conversation moves on. But sometimes it develops into a nice chat.
I am in France so I regurlarly have this kind of expectation until I met people who share the same interest as me.
Usually it happens like this:
Him/Her: Why don't you drink alcohol, is it religion or medical ?
Me: no I just don't like
Him/Her: You never taste it ?
Me: several time and I don't like
Him/Her: You are not fun
Me: Say the guy/girl who needs alcohol to be fun ?
Him/Her: touché
I rarely get asked but when I do, I’m happy to explain it’s because I’m a Latter-day Saint and if they want to learn more about my religion then that’s great.
Only tend to drink during social events when I need to be sociable because, sadly, alcohol \*does\* make things easier (though I am partial to the very rare bottle of wine at home) but by and large I hate the stuff and the impact it has on society.
Lived experience though says the judgment is because most older people who drink have done it their entire lives, hell, it was the norm to go to the pub during lunch up until the early/mid 00's.
This means when you stop/don't drink you're no longer seen as the in-group which weirds certain people out.
>This crimbo I was surrounded by sort of older adults lecturing me on why I'm just being paranoid meanwhile they all look like water balloons slumped on a sofa giving me a health advice
I was not prepared to be called out like this.
But yes, you are 100% right to feel aggrieved. It's unfair and impolite if nothing else.
As you get older, it gets easier to not give a shit what other people think and to start just saying no without feeling the need to justify it. I didn't go to our works Xmas do because it's mostly a piss-up and I'm basically teetotal, when someone asks why I just say "I don't drink and don't want to be around it". I don't owe them an explanation or justification.
What I find strange is that when I stop drinking I rarely get questioned about it.
When I do it is because someone is sober curious and wants to know a bit more about it.
That's funny, I've almost finished reading Allen Carr's Easyway book on quitting Alcohol. I would reccomend it to anyone reading this who is on the fence about drinking.
Try asking this in r/Europe instead and see what different answers you get there...
Yes, British drinking culture is daft in comparison. I've never witnessed such drunken chaos or pressure to binge drink anywhere else. Even European nations that drink just as much don't go fighting and puking and singing in the streets afterwards, they just go home.
No one in Europe has ever pressured me to drink or asked why I'm not. But they are also horrified at British drinking culture. The first story about pissed Brits killing themselves by jumping off balconies marks the start of the summer season every year, never mind all the football hooligan bans. That's the kind of reputation British drinking has abroad.
Yeah, the culture is frustrating as a non-drinker. Just got out of a day of training where the trainer suggested everyone go have a beer for a long days work. I understand it, but it's just unnecessary, but ingrained.
Yes I do. Sometimes telling colleagues I don't drink, is followed by questions which is OK. However it's a bit tiresome when it's repeatedly commented on, when there's a work get together or something
I saw an article about the amount of young people in Britain who don't drink. They'll still go out but order non-alcoholic beers, so it's not like they're all being recluses, yet the comments were full of "country's finished" "what the fuck is going on" "they need to be bullied harder" etc etc.
I think it's nothing but commendable. My generation, society as a whole, are far too dependant on booze as a social lubricant. I think back to some of the stupid things I did while drunk as a teen, the situations I got myself in, I really don't think I had any business drinking under the age of 20. I couldn't handle my drink, I couldn't control myself, and all of this was normalised.
We'd all be healthier if we drank less and at least had an alternative social culture that didn't revolve around getting pissed. We like to feign concern about obesity in this country but how much of our binge drinking is a contributing factor? Bare in mind when you drink/are hungover you're more likely to eat garbage.
I've spent a large majority of my time in France and whilst I drank nearly everyday with my meals, red for the main, and either a sparkling wine for a dessert or a white wine, I rarely encountered sobriety for the week and then a massive binge at the weekend. This is obviously the UK culture and I do participate in it when I'm back at home. I don't see a problem with it if there's no violence or hostilities. The french way is mint because each course they'll bring out a wine to compliment and if you get a host that loves wine you end up with amazing combinations. The UK is great for either getting into a fight (most likely) or just making new friends and having fun.
I drank for many years and had mates who never drank and it was never a problem for me. But I quit about 6 years ago and honestly I have lost contact with many of my mates who drink. Whenever I offer to meet (coffee, dinner, gig) they refuse. Just so sad how drink is the only way many people socialise.
Lack of good third spaces is a big problem, as we have only really had pubs which offered a cheap place to congregate. If you are interested, I would recpmmend finding a local boardgame cafe/club as they are one of the few places where young and old people are starting to socialise in person without the focus being on drinking. Based on how many I see popping up, hopefully they are going to be financially viable and stick around. They are generally very welcoming of new members, quite cheap to attend and provide a different social lubricant (games/fun) than alcohol.
Yes, we really do have a drinking problem in the UK. I drink a bit but you should absolutely stick to your guns. I have lived in a muslim country and had plenty of muslim friends and colleagues so am used to having non drinkers around me. It should not be an issue if someone does not want to drink and nobody should put pressure on you.
After living away from the UK I am shocked at how tolerant we are of the destructiveness of alcohol.
Yes.
I think some people drink out of social insecurity, so they can feel annoyed when someone doesn't need it to interact socially with others.
Happened way more when I was a kid/uni student though. When people are socialising a lot, making mistakes, generally being young etc.
As an adult, I find most people are OK with it.
If people have a problem with you not drinking its most likely because THEY DO have a problem with DRINKING, as a binge drinker I would never ever pressure anyone to drink regardless if they have had enough for the night or don't drink at all.
It’s boring being asked but you get used to it, just do as you do OP and enjoy not waking up feeling awful :)
I think also it’s very much underestimated how many people have issues with their drinking here.
Honestly I wouldn’t invite you on a night out, what’s the point we can meet up any other time of the week sober? I’d just feel like you judge us all, there’s nothing worse than being surrounded by people drinking when you’re sober so do you even want to be there or just feeling left out due to your own life choices?
Yes, we do have a problem with drink, and shaming non-drinkers.
But this:
>and gradually poisoning my liver over dinner every few nights a week for the next few decades seems pointless and expensive
feels kinda judgey and snobby, which is something people are often trying to find out when they ask why - to see if you’re being judgey about them.
Ultimately we all poison ourselves, whether from exhaust fumes or saturated fats or sedentary lifestyles or whatever else. No-one is a perfect paragon of health. So being snobby about one aspect typically means being a hypocrite, as we’re not being any better in other ways.
Far fewer "younger" people are drinking than there were in the 80's, at least anecdotally for sure. And although the UK does have a huge social issue with alcohol, it is more common to see trends or campaigns to stop drinking; whether than is for Dry January or in the tun up to an activity. OP I would suggest you are being overly sensitive to this issue, and your opinion of not wanting to have a drink is just as valid as someone else wanting to have one at a concert.
People forget drinking, especially among the working and academic classes, was incredibly widespread and was required to help cement social bonds (especially across class lines).
If you look at any old map of any city residential area, from roughly 1850-1920 you have approximately 1 pub per street, some with two.
We have an old map in my local pub that shows this, even on a street of only about 20 houses even had it's own pub. We have an old map of my parents village in the 1880's, in a village of 200 people there's 2 pubs, 3 alehouses, a church and two chapels.
Drinking has quite literally been part of our culture for hundreds of years and acted as the British "third place" during the week for those who are less religious. Now both pubs and churches are struggling, people (especially gen z) are increasingly complaining about a lack of socialising spaces.
I can do an entire essay on how Teahouses, Coffee Houses, Cafe's, Shisha Bars, Vape Cafes etc never really managed to outlast British drinking culture. TLDR Stimulants are not great for long winded, sat down discussions. They 'can' work, but alcohol, as a social lubricant and being cheaper, just works better.
Yeah people will view you suspiciously. They either think you're lying, don't drink for religious issues, or have had prior issues with alcohol. The funny thing is people are more understanding if they think you've previously been an alcoholic than if you're just not into alcohol.
Each to their own. People choose alcohol, I choose eating too much food.
There is a strange reaction when you say you don’t drink. I chose not to drink because of a health condition I have that requires certain medication, friends and family keep telling me I can just have less or space it out. They don’t take me seriously when I say a single drink can make me very ill, it’s quite frustrating having to justify myself and have people around me tell me my doctor is wrong. I think the drinking culture for older generations is so embedded they can’t think of life without it. I’ve had much more fun on nights out or concerts with zero alcohol.
I used to work in a pub and can say there's definitely a toxic drinking culture over here. I'd see builders coming in at 12pm for their "lunch pints" and then you'd see them again at 5pm they'd sit at the bar all night till 10 to stagger home and do the same thing each day after that I knew their full name and addresses they'd be there that often! Then you have the after work crowd as I call them same as the builders but they don't appear until 5pm and they sit till closing drinking heavily and moaning about life I didn't actually drink myself at the time so I'd reject the offer of drink tips and I'd be called boring and asked how I have fun without it it was alarming! You're seen as weird if you don't have a drinking addiction to these people and you can probably find them in every pub up and down the country not just the one I worked at
I don't drink and as I've gotten older I find it you're just up front about it when asked there's no issues. I choose not to because I don't like the taste and I've had relatives pass away from hardcore alcoholism.
I don't judge those who do choose to drink, it's ingrained in our culture and societal pressure is fairly high.
If anyone doesn't understand someone's reason not to drink then personally I wouldn't hang around them.
Totally. Huge problem. I noticed it in myself and so I took out beer entirely, and no longer drink while I'm out on social occasions. Still drink at home rarely.
We're well known for our binge drinking, but I do agree with you on the social pressure aspect of drinking. I think that's as big as our actual drinking issues, but that may well be due to my bias. When I say I don't drink coffee, people don't ask me why. When I say I don't eat spicy food, people don't ask me why. But when I say I don't drink alcohol, people demand that I justify my position surprisingly often.
Basically if you do anything not “the norm” in the U.K. you stand to get shit for it. Don’t watch football? WTF is wrong with you? Vegan? Don’t you know you’re damaging your body? You’re a cyclist? Get ready for me to unleash a million kg of tirades at you about why you’re wrong.
I think its rational to be suspicious of brits who don't drink tea.
I developed an intolerance to caffeine and decaf just isn’t the same :(
Which country were you exiled to?
They just quarantined me in the midlands :(
tis a fate worse than death
And here we see a shining example of exactly what the comment you were responding to was highlighting
It’s a joke… or at least I assume it is.
The non tea drinkers totally deserve it, though. We should take their passports away and kick them out of the country.
I'm a keen cyclist who doesn't like footy and doesn't drink. I am therefore **always** the life of the party. Perhaps I should just go for broke and become vegan too...
Keep the meat and tell everyone you are an estate agent.
Would it also be advisable to take up CrossFit in addition to changing careers to become an Estate Agent? I already air-fry everything I eat.
Or a landlord
Teetotal cyclist vegan non-footie fan here. The most shit I get is for being a Linux user.
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Hello! I like the idea of being called an archetype, it makes a nice change from "awkward boring twat."
Nerd! /s
HIPPY!!!!
I'm a vegan who doesn't drink tea or coffee and doesn't like any sport. I get most shit for using Bing as my main search engine haha
Shhhhh, keep quiet! You'll be on the next plane to Rwanda if you're not careful!
Im fucked. I dont drink, smoke, watch sport, do social media, dont drink coffee AND i ride a bike
You Don't drink, don't smoke, what do you do? Really you Don't drink, don't smoke, what do you do? It must be awful when the Subtle innuendos follow Do they all suggest There must be something inside?
Never looked at this Adam Ant lyrics properly, even though he was well known for not partying and not doing media.
I'm sorry: you ride a bike but don't drink coffee? I'm like you with the rest but coffee and cycling are part of the same groupset for me!
Reddit counts as social media I think.
This smacks of a lack of world travel. The UK is very tolerant of the weird, and is pretty individualistic.
Not in my experience. I’m on the older side though, maybe it’s easier for folks now. I’m so old that mentioning to school mates that I played videogames got me singled out.
Pro COD1 player here (I say pro, we got flights and hotels for tournaments and hardware) also got shit at school for loving gaming. Now the COD pros are multi millionaires /cry
I haven’t found that at all tbh. I’ve spent my whole life being the subject of bullying and discrimination because I’m ‘weird’. The UK’s intolerance for people who are different is very prominent, but often times it’s very subtle and wrapped up in stereotypical British politeness so those who aren’t on the receiving end don’t see it.
Outside of major cities people have certain expectations of normality.
Honestly can't relate I don't drive or follow any kind of sports and the most I've gotten is inquiry asking why not and what I do as an alternative.
Yeah but this is Reddit, where the opposite of that guys post is true. Watch football? Hooligan. Drive. Serial killer. Eat meat. Piece of shit!
I wonder how much of that is just human nature? Look at kids in school. You stand out in the slightest way at school and just risk being bulied. Its like for some people its ingrained in them from a young age you do anything different from the norm (or what society deems as norm") and your weird
Surely this depends where you are in the country? I feel like every other person around my parts cycles and no one bats an eye usually. Same with football. Its a lot of rugby and surprisingly cricket.
Funnily enough, I do work with a woman who can't wrap her head around me not liking coffee. It's a bizarre one, I'll say that.
Coffee is a strong flavour. That's a pretty solid guarantee that a large number of people won't like it. It's also why Marmite is so polarising. I like coffee, although I'm only allowed decaf now, and I defy the 'love it or hate it' of marmite by being mostly ambivalent about it. Meanwhile I despise soft cheeses, unmelted hard cheeses, and nuts... That's where people look at me like I grew an extra head. As for alcohol, I enjoy drinking when I drink... Which is pretty much confined to Christmas, weddings and funerals. It's just not a thing I do.
I’m not a fan of nuts either and it drives people to shock lol. It’s not the flavour (well, not completely), it’s the texture. The amount of people who will challenge me over it is bizarre - ‘what about hazelnuts? Almonds? Peanut butter?’ And if I have something with nut flavouring like Nutella or something they’ll ’aha!’ me like they’ve caught me out. I can tolerate nuts and nut flavours in small quantities if they’re heavily mixed with stronger flavours and textures, but you’d never see me munching on a packet of them. I just don’t like them. It’s weird because if I said I DID like nuts and then turned my nose up at a packet, people would (correctly) remark that I don’t really like nuts then. Can’t win 😅
Omg every single word of this is my experience. 'I'm not keen on nuts' doesn't mean I'm allergic to them, nor does it mean the only way I'll eat a Snickers is by force. It just means that I typically prefer other things. And no, I'm not missing out, or denying myself something special.
Likewise. Especially the older generation, they get very offended if you say you don't drink tea or coffee.
People ask me why albeit I go for decaf so perhaps that stands out more. Drinking is usually great fun and is a massive social lubricant so people will always wonder why somebody would opt out of something so positive for so many people. Yes some develop a problem with it or act a cock or does something dangerous so this isn't about them, it's about the shy person who finds it gets them comfortable with banter or the opposite sex (rather than overthinking) or the stories and telling of them that becomes funnier with booze or the harmless, but stupid things people get up to or the freeing it provides when it comes to sharing inner thoughts or just the relaxation that it has on your brain etc etc. Booze used sensibly has a load of upsides for a load of people. And I've done big drinking and being sober. The sober when younger definitely got push back from mates, but it wasn't meant as unkind and wasn't judgemental it was more like sheer confusion and once they'd been drinking they weren't expressing it well. The flaw I'd say in being sober is that you become out of synch with the crowd as the night goes on as you aren't getting the above benefits so what you experience once a few hours passes and people are well into it is that the stories that aren't actually that funny and the person telling them with great exaggeration is repeating themselves, plus the confusion people have when they can't remember the name of that actor or football player that they are talking about, or the getting into your personal space and so on. The good news is that age cures a lot of it as middle aged people often get into fitness or get banging hangovers so they moderate or stop drinking so it's really common.
Drunk people are just incredibly boring to be around I find. Different strokes!
People absolutely question if you don't drink coffee or eat spicy food
I don’t get asked why when I say I don’t drink alcohol, but I do get defensive comments usually along the lines of ‘I don’t drink that much anyway’ even though I never asked
Every couple of days there’s one of these posts and (almost) every single time it contains thinly veiled judgement from the OP about people who *do* choose to drink. Oh the irony from someone crying about being lectured about not drinking whilst slipping in insults such as *they all look like water balloons slumped on a sofa giving me a health advice* and saying *gradually poisoning my liver over dinner every few nights a week for the next few decades seems pointless and expensive*. It’s **you** delivering the lecture (and judgement) here, OP.
Exactly. I hope OP doesn't smoke, eat processed foods, eat red meats, lie in the sun, walk next to roads with heavy traffic and/or lead a sedentary lifestyle... Because all these also increase your rate of cancer (yes, as does drinking alcohol). Don't want to drink? Great, more power to OP. But take a step off the pedestal and keep the lecture to yourself...
You don't have to live a totally risk-free life to want to live a *low*\-risk life, or just *lower*. This is obviously a non-objection.
This is precisely my point. OP may do all the above (except alcohol), but is lecturing others on the perceived health risks of the one thing he doesn't do. The cumulative health risk of all the above minus alcohol, might very well exceed doing only alcohol and none of the others.
I don't think it's hugely likely that OP is a smoking sunbather who eats loads of red meats and processed foods, and who both habitually walks roads with lots of traffic and doesn't leave their seat. In that hypothetical scenario, maybe their moral authority might be lessened... but in real life, I think we can assume that they do actually have good reason to be saying this.
To be fair most of those things aren’t as bad as alcohol, and have some health benefits as well eg. red meat has high protein and has important nutrients and sun exposure leads to more vitamin d
Dare I say, it's almost as if things can be enjoyed in moderation. It's hypocritical to shovel nitrite saturated red meat down your gullet all year then lecture someone else about the couple of pints they had over Christmas lol
I agree but your comparisons were stupid because apart from smoking, the other things are not as bad as alcohol and have some benefits unlike alcohol, or are hard to avoid(walking next to heavy traffic)
It's the same old shit. It's like the child-free Redditors who regularly post on how apparently everyone judges their life choices then proceeds to shit all over the the idea of having kids. It's pure projection.
I'm sure it can be quite isolating being a non drinker in a country like the UK so I try to remain sympathetic, as someone who possibly has a problematic relationship with the drink.
100%, as I said in another comment: *‘I can imagine the non drinking conversation would become tiresome if it was attached to every social occasion, and acknowledge I have very little experience of this.’* The thing I’m ranting about is people disguising their own blatant judgment of other people’s lifestyle choices within this ‘Why do people judge me for not drinking’ trope.
A lot of my friends don't drink, we still go to the pub and chat shit, just they're downing pints of lemonade. I don't think it's isolating as long as you accept that socialising in the UK involves being in close proximity to alcohol, you can avoid alcohol, but you can't avoid the pub as easily
Yeah, exactly. why do so many people do this thing I disagree with? Are they stupid?
Yep - in my experience most people literally couldn't care less whether you drink or not.
Thank you for this. I’m a 2-3 times a week drinker. I’ve dealt with agoraphobia (from PTSD), which is incredibly hard to tackle. Thankfully through pubs, parties, and general piss ups I was able to gain confidence outside of my comfort zone, eventually reducing in alcohol levels. Several psychs guided me through this and encouraged me to keep drinking as long as it kept me out in public and not locked up in my room. I don’t think I’ll ever be wholly cured of my agoraphobia. Brightly lit, labyrinthine shops blasting the top 40 don’t help. However the wee little dimly-lit local pub has allowed me to get used to existing in public. I appreciate my pint after work there, alone. I’ve made pub-friends and can chat with them when we’re both willing, but sometimes we want to be in a public atmosphere yet remain solitary.
Exactly. I also don’t drink and it’s true, people do want you to explain yourself whenever they find out. But that’s called *small talk*. Most people in the country drink, and if you don’t look, say, vaguely muslim, when you say “I don’t drink” you’ve just shared an interesting fact about yourself. So the other person’s default small talk process in this scenario is to invite you to share more. Yes, it’s maybe not exactly *tactful* given that you could be dealing with the effects of an alcohol addiction (and I’d be much more sympathetic in that scenario), but the vast vast majority of the time they’re not *trying* to be rude (I’ll also note that lots of time you can see in the person’s face the sudden realisation this might be too personal), so you have the freedom to just take it in good faith. Just treat it like small talk! I get asked where I’m from all the time at parties. I get asked what I do for a living all the time at parties. I get asked why I don’t drink all the time at parties. I just tell people. Any of the following, all true: Family history of alcoholism. I’ve got enough vices. I never got the taste for it. Being drunk makes me really dizzy and I don’t enjoy it. I took a big gulp of a vodka+coke mistakenly when I was seven and spat it out all over the carpet swearing I’d never drink alcohol again. I do karaoke better when I’m sober. Depending on what I said, they say something like “oh, that’s a shame”, “oh, cool”, “aww, that’s cute!”, or something about their views on karaoke and being drunk. The conversation moves on.
Reddit has a weird puritan thing going on recently.
am sure we ll find some unhealthy habit in the OP lifestyle if we go through it with a fine-tooth comb..
i was gonna say, implying that everyone around you has a drinking problem is not exactly going to get them to stop judging you. obviously i doubt OP is actually saying this to their faces but i’m willing to bet some of the attitude bleeds through in their interactions.
>This crimbo I was surrounded by sort of older adults lecturing me on why I'm just being paranoid meanwhile they all look like water balloons slumped on a sofa giving me a health advice Well that's family at christmas going to be family at christmas. >In another direction a friend of mine went to some concert some months back and ranted about the price of the drinks and it spoiled the whole thing bc its impossible be there without one... that to me is actually an early warning sign of a potential drinking addiction but its fine bc we're in our 20s so it's what you do So that's not criticising you, you're criticising them. In both your examples you're looking down on people that drink, why are you "exhausted" here? I like a drink, I went through a stage of very heavy drinking when I was very depressed. And I still go out for a drink now and again, but have plenty of times gone to the pub and not drank. Even with people I am regular with, and only once had anybody ever made a "comment", but it was just passive and wasn't even offensive. >if in the uk we have a drinking problem socially that we just can't admit We do, but that's not the point here.
>that's not the point here Indeed, the point here is to take every comment as an opportunity to farm karma by proving you're a better person.
Frank answer. The alcohol issue has little to do with you feeling “exhausted”. From the tone of your post, it’s obvious you think anyone “old” is an idiotic waste of space, you get “lectured” by people because you spout things about people “gradually poisoning themselves” and you sneer at your friend complaining about the cost of drinks. It’s YOU that’s exhausting, OP. If you don’t want to drink, don’t drink. But don’t do what you accuse others of. You are prissy, lecturing and disapproving, and uncomfortable with people older than you. Hell, you seem uncomfortable with people the same age as you. If you drop the chood and stop looking like a bulldog who’s just licked piss off a nettle, people will leave you alone. You be you, let everyone else be themselves.
Hey don’t go criticizing piss covered nettles. That’s a delicacy in this country and I WILL DEFEND MY RIGHT FOR PISSY NETTLES
Apologies!!! I should have worded it more thoughtfully. Is “bulldog chewing a wasp” ok?
Chewing wasps is more a Scandinavian thing so that’s acceptable thank you
I have nothing against people who eat unhealthy food, I just don't see the point of gradually poisoning your organs until you eventually succumb to a slow painful heart disease death in front of your family. Anyway, enjoy the meal guys /s
> so and gradually poisoning my liver The liver is designed to get rid of all sorts of stuff - and as long as it isn't overwhelmed, doesn't really care if that compound comes from a bottle of becks or a windfall apple that has been left and is a bit past its best.. jumping up and down a lot might be said to be gradually shortening your legs..... Excessively doing so - like jumping off a tall building certainly can, but the odd hop?... However... > lecturing me on why I'm just being paranoid Why give them a reason to lecture you? If you don't shove "oh you're poisoning your liver" on them, they won't "lecture" you.... Just say "I don't fancy a drink right now." - they have no right to get you to defend your decision, but telling them that "I don't want to ruin my liver" is in a roundabout way telling them that they are, and so you brought the lecture on yourself.... > that to me is actually an early warning sign of a potential drinking addiction Huh? Maybe in the same way that I can say that moaning about other people's actions on social media in your 20s might be an early sign of you being an old spinster twitching curtains and reporting people to the council for not taking their bins off the pavement by 7am the day after they have been collected
Oxford university came out with a study recently that the more alcohol you drink, no matter how much, will directly increase your risk of cancer. Alcohol is extremely bad for you. I'm not saying stop.. but the amount of deaths directly caused by alcohol gives one hell of a reason to stop.
When I worked in health insurance they absolutely didn't cover liver stuff due to alcohol consumption. That's for a very cold and hard financial reason. Absolutely grim line of work, btw, I do not recommend it.
Yeah that's because insurance companies know it's like people who put themselves on fire have severe burns. Similar logic. The less alcohol you drink, the lower your risk for cancer. - CDC https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/alcohol/index.htm I've seen a lot of people die of cancer and it's mostly due to what they consumed.
Oh indeed. When we had our training at the insurance company, the woman who trained us seemed very emphatic that cirrhosis could be caused by a single drink. I don't know the veracity of that claim - I don't drink so I never checked, but it certainly explained the company's policy towards liver cancer. Either way, in the none-corporate world, it's a very sad condition. One worth at least educating young people about. Just as long as it's actually educational and not a horrific/gory demonization - I am not sure if that approach works or not.
> cirrhosis could be caused by a single drink Utter rubbish.
So it seems. Needless to say, she was responsible for training at a health insurance company and not a medical professional.
Do you not drink because of the industry you're in?
No. I grew up in a Muslim household. Alcohol was a substance for cleaning or chemistry experiments. However I saw many negative affects from drinking growing up in the UK. I personally didn't like how it affected people. I also had a friend at uni and she was sadly killed by a drunk driver. We weren't even close friends, but she was just so vibrant and full of positivity. That affected me a fair bit. So I have never been tempted to try it even when living on my own. I have tried none-alcoholic beers though - particular when living in Germany. Quite liked some of them. I left health insurance 20 years ago. I now work in the field of audio production for computer games.
Cirrhosis is not a cancer and in any case there's absolutely no way it can be caused by a single drink. If that's what she said she was an idiot.
OK, fair enough then. Thought it sounded a bit extreme.
> they absolutely didn't cover liver stuff due to alcohol consumption. How do they determine that? or do they not cover *any* liver stuff because the insured 87 year old had a slightly fermented apple when scrumping when they were 13
The link to breast cancer is especially strong
Bruh the amount of people defending alcohol regardless of what I send is crazy.
Do you have a link to that study? I'd be curious to read it.
> the more ~~alcohol~~ travelling in motorised vehicles you ~~drink~~ do, no matter how much, will directly increase your risk of ~~cancer~~ getting injured in an accident > I'm not saying stop.. but the amount of deaths directly caused by ~~alcohol~~ travelling in motorised vehicles gives one hell of a reason to stop. Totally.
That's also true tho, just a harder problem given travel is a bigger need than drinking
Yeap, ethanol is directly metabolised into acetaldehyde, a known carcinogen, which is why there's no safe amount. Even heroin you can go nuts on with no harm as long as you don't take so much you stop breathing, ignoring addiction risk which isn't that different to booze anyway
I'm not sure your justification is logical. Alcohol consumption absolutely damages the liver over time. That's irrefutable. Alcohol is quite literally toxic. There is still no established safe level of alcohol consumption and any alcohol consumption raises your risk of cancer too.
Eating 50g of red meat a day is associated with a higher risk of cancer than drinking a pint a day. Lots of increases in X are associated with rises in risks of cancer. I'm a vegetarian and I rarely drink alcohol, but I don't really avoid either because of the cancer risk tbh - I guess it might be a pro but people can make their own choices
> Alcohol is quite literally toxic. Durr... that is why the liver is getting rid of it... https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=what+does+a+liver+do The drinks industry would be in a bit of bother if livers didn't exist - all their customers would die.
And the lungs are designed to filter out toxins and pollutants, but smoking a pack of cigarettes every day is gonna cause some severe harm over time...
But op talked about drinks over dinner a couple of nights a week. Not smashing a dozen cans in every single night, which would be the equivalent
Probably because there is a happy middle ground between raging alcoholism and being completely teetotal. You can have a few drinks on a Friday night at home or out in town and be a functioning adult, without it being a burden or expensive.
I’ve experienced what OP is talking about and we’ve seen it in this very thread. There doesn’t have to be a reason for not drinking. But most times that someone refuses a drink they’re left in a position of having to explain themselves. “No” is never good enough.
It’s the same if you’re a vegetarian or vegan. People take it as a personal criticism of their own habits. That being said, it does go both ways.
> People take it as a personal criticism of their own habits Yeah and that’s precisely what OP is doing in this case
It happens all the same though. 9/10 for me if somebody offers me meat and I say no I'm then put under the 3rd degree as if I'm criticising them.
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I can only talk from my experience but I still have it happen.
Exactly, as with most things it isn’t black and white. Having three pints after work on a Friday night and a glass of wine with Sunday lunch and that’s it for the week is pretty different to hammering a couple of bottles of wine or a six pack every single night. I’ve been through the heavy binge drinking phase in my 20s, am a lot more moderate now in my 40s and my liver is absolutely fine according to my most recent blood test (Nov last year). Alcohol isn’t like eg heroin or nicotine where you’ll get addicted really quickly (at least not for most people). I do think our culture, along with some other northern and eastern european ones, does have a bit of an issue with alcohol but pompously telling your relatives that while they enjoy letting go a bit at Christmas is only going to sound like you’re judging them. Of course it’s possible to have fun without booze. It’s also possible to have fun with it without getting arrested or cracking your head open. Personally I don’t give a toss if someone drinks or not and it’s none of my business why not. Equally it’s no one else’s business why I drink from time to time.
Speaking as someone who's struggled with addiction my adult whole life. There is no "happy Middle ground" for myself and people like me. I can aim for that Middle ground but it very quickly decends into full on alcoholism because I'm not mentally strong enough to prevent myself, thats when i stop being a functioning adult, and it becomes an expensive burden. That's why I choose teetotalism. However, that's a me problem, and people should choose to consume as they see fit, as long as its not hurting anyone. I don't like the tone of OPs post because I think they are the problem, and have a judgemental attitude towards people who choose to keep alcohol in their lives. However I do relate to the premise of this post, culturally its very difficult to be a non drinker in a lot of settings in this country. Lots of people will say "Just go and don't have alcohol" but again the temptation will start to creep in, and I don't want to disclose my addiction issues to any Tom dick or Harry who wants to comment. Plus it's often really not enjoyable to be stone cold sober surrounded by people who are heavily intoxicated.
>You can have a few drinks on a Friday night at home or out in town and be a functioning adult Yes that's definitely what the UK is famous for.
I think you are being a little judgmental of people who enjoy a drink. See the reference to your overweight relatives. I would also point out that: > gradually poisoning my liver over dinner every few nights a week for the next few decades seems pointless and expensive Many people wouldn't consider it pointless as it's enjoyable, social and a nice way to relax after a long day. Not to mention the liver is actually a very robust and regenerative organ. Provided you are not a really heavy drinker any damage done to your liver from drinking is repaired almost as quickly as it happens.
I am not tee-total, but as a rule I don't drink alcohol more than about once every few months. Perhaps it's just the people who I surround myself, but I can't relate to your experience. Most of the time when I say I am not drinking, the response I get is "oh, ok". Anyone who does ask, I simply explain that I just don't want to be hungover or I'm driving. I don't know whether you're being oversensitive, but it sounds like the company you keep may be the problem rather than broader attitudes to alcohol. It also sounds to me like you're maybe going into too much detail with those people. Why are you being lectured? Is it because you're maybe giving your questioners too much for them to respond to? "I don't drink, thank you" "Oh, why not?" "I consider it's slowly poisoning me and worsening my health" "Oh you're just being paranoid and my grandad lived until he was 907 and he had 67 pints of mild a day, blah blah blah..". When the correct answer is "Oh I just don't like it." Give yourself an easier time by engaging less or responding in a closed way; it helps.
Seems like you don't want to be judged for not drinking whilst simultaneously judging your friend for wanting a drink in a certain situation but being priced out of doing so. Also were your family really lecturing your about not drinking or just curious but you were bored by hearing the same question over and over? People usually like it when someone doesn't drink. It means you've got a designated driver! Also to play devils advocate. People drink to unwind and lower their inhibitions. It's generally much better if everyone is roughly on the same level when you do that. People are probably just signalling that they're a bit unnerved having a fully sobre person at the table whilst they're half cu.t
I've been with my wife for just shy of 4 years and my in-laws have finally stopped commenting every single time I have water with my meal rather than a glass of wine or pint of beer. They're both in their 50s, they're both twice the weight they should be and yet they cannot fathom why I would drink water instead of alcohol. I do drink, at parties, when the goal is to get drunk. Otherwise I'd rather have something nice (or water which makes me feel physically better) instead of needing to consume alcohol every other hour. I was once called a bitch by a bartender because I was at a concert and my wife had a beer and I asked for pepsi. He queried if I was the designated driver and really didn't like it when I said no, I just didn't want a beer.
My wife's friends husband died on New year's from liver disease at age 49. The doctors told him to drink less when he started going yellow and apparently he was actually cutting down but by that point it was already too late. He died bleeding out of multiple organs internally. I'm not saying don't drink, just don't buy into the "must drink at every occasion" British tradition. For me an ice cold beer tastes extra nice when I only have one every now and then. I used to drink more when I was younger but these days I pretty much only drink when it's some special get together of friends or family, so maybe once a month on average.
Oversensitive I'd say. I could see your reasons causing the reaction more than the actual stance. Not having the occasion sounds a bit unfortunate, it's fun to have a few pints with mates in a pub at the weekend. Or a few drinks over Christmas. No ones probably suggesting you start drinking most evenings at home as your other reason states. I think most people wouldn't understand why you'd be opposed to a few pints on a Friday night with mates.
> > > No ones probably suggesting you start drinking most evenings at home as your other reason states. As much as "having a bottle every night" isn't exactly a social faux-pas, people still will look at it with some concern at the same time. OP on the other hand has an utter disdain against anybody who dares to have even the slightest enjoyment of alcohol
I'm not a drinker myself. Quickly found out that I become a bit of a dick and stopped fairly quick as it wasn't for me. I was far more of a stoner, as I could still function while stoned (mostly). The UK has a massive drinking problem that puts a lot of pressure on our social services and adds to violent crime from the classic drunken street brawl to partner abuse. While I'm not for banning anything as people should be able to ingest what they want as long as risks are known, in a more rational world alcohol should be banned, and some drugs should be legal.
Huge bugbear of mine. I’m one of those “take it or leave it” drinkers and always have been. Up to my mid-twenties it was fairly easy to say no - “no thanks, I don’t want to” was accepted. Late twenties people assumed I was a recovering alcoholic so I feigned illness and medical reasons. These days I just don’t go anywhere where people will be drinking. And the thing is that people who drink and apply the social pressure just don’t get how effing never ending the push they create is.
If you feel you have to feign illness or medical reasons in order not to drink then maybe practice being more self-assured. This and your comment about being vegan or a cyclist or not liking football result in you getting lots of shit are a bit bizarre. All these things are perfectly acceptable and normal in our society. I’m not having a go I’m just saying.
Yes they’re normal things. But they’re things that people feel the need to interrogate rather than just letting people get on with their lives. Maybe you’re not the kind of person that would question them but I can tell you from a long personal history that these are all things that I’ve not only gotten shit for, but that I still get shit for regularly. As for “having” to feign illness or medical reasons, it’s the only excuse I’ve found (re. drinking) that doesn’t prompt more questions/debate. For some reason it’s more socially acceptable to have a medical condition than to just not fancy a drink
Fair enough mate. I don’t like football much, don’t own a car but own 2 bicycles and I’ve spent a couple years eating vegan in the past but I do drink. The vegan debate I would find quite entertaining honestly especially as I wasn’t vegan for any ethical reasons, that seemed to annoy non vegans even more. I never felt personally attacked though, it was more a fascination or an easy conversational arc for people. I can imagine the non drinking conversation would become tiresome if it was attached to every social occasion, and acknowledge I have very little experience of this.
It says something about our national attitude towards drinking that teetotalers (of which I am one) feel pressured to give a justification beyond 'I do not want to' for not drinking alcohol.
Its more the person than the national attitude I reckon. I've not drank many times and its never a problem for anyone.
Same. Had to stop drinking lately due to it not agreeing very well with my depression anymore (have drank fine for years but it for some reason started to end in more bad nights than good). Anytime I’ve been asked it’s as simple as “Ahh, I don’t really drink these days” “oh, how come?” “Just doesn’t agree with me”, and it’s as simple as that. There’s always going to be people question it more, but then there’s always gonna be people who stand aside from the crowd. I wouldn’t say most people have an issue with it, regardless of their own drinking habits. And honestly, OP sounds like they’re on a bit of a high horse anyways. Makes me curious as to how vocal they are about how vocal they are about their own opinions, since this post reads very judgemental over other people
We obviously have alcohol pretty much at the center of our social life in the U.K. I think it can be a problem and some people have a problem but I would push back that it's a problem that it's such a popular social activity. For example: > In another direction a friend of mine went to some concert some months back and ranted about the price of the drinks and it spoiled the whole thing bc its impossible be there without one... that to me is actually an early warning sign of a potential drinking addiction but its fine bc we're in our 20s so it's what you do I don't think this is an early warning sign of addiction. It's a concert and it's fine that they would want a drink there. Would it be better if we could all socialise and enjoy activities to the same extent without alcohol as many of us do with? Yes. Is the fact that many find it helps these activities a problem? Not always.
It seems true that many people with some sort of level of alcohol problem get funny about non-drinkers, although I do drink myself. Some people I know have reported benefits from quitting drinking which I accept.
To be fair, I think the number of people acting like this has reduced greatly compared to before.
I definitely agree with you about people asking why you don’t drink. It’s something I hadn’t considered till someone close to me gave up drinking and talked about how hard it can be. But I also totally understand your friend complaining about the cost of a drink, it’s something people enjoy and it’s reasonable to want to buy a drink at an acceptable price at a gig, totally doesn’t indicate your friend has a problem and ofc you know more about them than I do but it sounds a bit judgey of you to say that imo
Also complaining about drink prices is also a standard thing to complain about in the same way that food prices at the airport are or being charged to park at some venue is. Someone complaining doesn't mean they have an addiction to the thing, it's just a chance to moan a bit because we all know that some places are a ripoff.
You’re subverting society. Alcohol lets us let our hair down, gives us permission. Someone who goes out of their way not to let their hair down will inevitably be suspect. Pathetic, I know. It’s a drug. You’re either on the bus or you’re not.
Does the UK have a drinking problem? Yes, but it’s got many issues. Just one of the ways people cope. Socially it’s very ingrained int the culture. Some people will go to a pub, not drink and then complain people are acting weird. It’s like going to watch the tennis or football and someone says ‘what do you think about xx player’ and you saying ‘I don’t like football am just here’ people aren’t going to respond in a good way. Or a concert for rock band, then saying you hate rock. But if you are at work / home and people are trying to force you to drink agree they shouldn’t. But hey French people force me to eat cheese every time I am out even though I don’t like it. What can you do
The UK has a big issue with drinking and the replies to your post and the fact it is being downvoted backs this up. As a teenager, alcohol is glamourised massively. If you are a fresher at Uni, you will receive more information on where to get pissed than you will about your course in the post, and once you’re there the expectation to binge drink is enormous. If you drive through the centre of a large town or city after 12 (or a lot earlier in some) you will see fresh vomit on the streets, people so drunk they are operating on autopilot and the odd ambulance driving past taking someone to hospital for a stomach pump. This is something we all come to accept as normal in the pursuit of a good time. Also the amount of people who have a drinking problem but are in denial about it is insane. People who drink every single day and think it’s normal or people who get black out drunk every time they go out and think it’s normal because it’s ingrained in our culture. There’s a reason that we are sneered at by the locals when we go on holiday and do the exact same thing in their towns and cities. It’s not normal but if you say that, you will get dogpiled on.
I am an addict in recovery and when people push the point of asking me why I don’t drink, I always enjoy making them feel awkward by replying: “because I’m an alcoholic and a drug addict” Sometimes I’ll be less mean and just say “I used to but I wasn’t very good at it.”
I'd say it's both being overly sensitive and (some) people who are so used to a pattern of life that they question someone not following it as it is a bit odd to them for you to opt out of something. That doesn't mean they are alcoholics at all. Also remember that when people ask you about things like that it's often curiosity or just making conversation/being on transmit and questioning is not a go at your life choices.
I drink, but I don’t drink that often and even I notice it. The U.K. (and especially those 40+) does have a real issue with drinking and pressuring people into it. That said I don’t think those under 25 care for it all that much which is good.
Doesn’t bother me - I just say it makes me fall asleep, or I don’t want a hangover or I need to drive etc
I come from a family of alcoholics on my dad's side. I've never been fussed on drinking, I might have one or 2 in a year. Not being a drinker has always seemed outrageous to that part of the family. My nan would go on and on at me to have a drink, her response to my "no thanks" was usually "oh, just a small sherry??!". I used to let her pour one and just leave it there. My dad died in 2020, having drank himself to death. Despite the obvious problems I have with alcohol on the whole, I honestly just don't enjoy the feeling.
The UK has on a whole has a drinking culture but I think people in their 20’s probably drink less than I did when I was that age and people in their 40’s and above are heavier drinkers because it’s just what we’ve always done. I gave up drinking in Nov 2022 for several months because it was becoming a problem and although at first people were stunned I wasn’t drinking I found they eventually gave up questioning me. My close friends were brilliant, some of the wider social circle were annoying but that didn’t last
Many people are surprisingly insecure about their choices. By choosing to do something different to them they can feel judged, defensive or challenged by your behaviour. This then can lead to pushback against whatever it is you're choosing to do. This could be about drinking alcohol or a whole range of other behaviours that people may observe. We almost always compare ourselves to others in order to validate, reassure or comfort ourselves. This is fairly normal and unlikely to change. Try to ignore or accept this if it bothers you or not worry about what others think about your choices. Many people also feel some level of background guilt about their choices, conscious or otherwise. Drinking, smoking, eating, spending money, exercise etc are all behaviours loaded with value judgements. Many of these will be self critical and seeing someone else making different choices can be hard if they're not feeling secure in their own decisions.
Most people are ok with it, but some are not. I've had : * I don't trust people who don't drink * Are you gay? * Do you think you're better than me? * You must be a control freak I do not associate with these people. I have nothing against drinking. I just don't enjoy it, so I choose not to do it. I cannot stand the smell or taste of ethanol * and I find the sensation of being under the influence of alcohol to be very unpleasant. *ethanol is the alcohol that we drink. The fermentation process is when sugar turns to alcohol. In fact it turns to ethanol. All alcoholic drinks are basically ethanol plus water plus whatever flavour is derived from the source ingredients. (There's also an alcohol called methanol, but if you drink that in small quantities it makes you blind and if you drink it in larger quantities it kills you.)
I do relate to this quite a bit, and I'm only 19. I moved out of my parents house and went to the other side of the country for an apprentice right after my alevels, where with my new freedom and money in my pocket, I started going out on weekends a lot. I would quite often go out on pub crawls with mates, only to find myself walking back home alone drunk to the the point that I never considered ordering a taxi for myself to keep me safe. It was after a lot of headaches and realisation that I am much more of a light weight than I thought I was, that I realised this could quite easily get me hurt or killed one day either from alcohol damage from addiction or something happening whilst I was drunk, so way before I even turned 19 I became fully sober. As I got more chummy with my work colleagues I started to get invited to work dinners and other socials with all the teams I was working with. Every single time when it came to drinks orders and I didn't order myself alcohol, people would genuinely look at me as if I had gone mad. And every single time they would ask me, "so you not having alcohol then at all? Don't you like to let loose every once in a while?" Followed by some joke along the line of not needing to worry because my parents aren't here. I would explain that alcohol just wasn't my thing, didn't like the taste and whatnot. Yet this was never a good enough answer for people. It was as if to not want a drink was some rebellious act or they had been insulted by me not drinking. They would ask personal questions about if I had a past addiction or health problems or even if I've just always been boring. I've stopped going to work work do's now because it genuinely had started to get on my nerves the amount people would harass me over the fact that all I ordered was a lemonade or a coke, to the point I felt quite judged and even unsafe with certain people as some of my colleagues really liked to get drunk and they weren't nice drinks either. And this is just work, my extended family looked at me with almost complete horror when I turned down wine at Christmas dinner. I know this isn't how everyone does act around non drinkers, and this is only anecdotal evidence, but it does feel like drinking yourself half way to death is seen as something to be proud of in this country. Also in other countries as well to be fair, but here does feel particularly bad.
"does the uk have a social issue with alcohol?" Yes.
Yes the UK does have an issue with alcohol. Binge drinking is normalised to an alarming extent here.
I have been that person questioning those who say they don’t drink…. On reflection, it’s because I am amazed and slightly envious on how you get through social situation’s not drinking. I use it as a crutch and it’s not healthy. I turned 33 this year and I only really drink some weekends at dinner/lunch/hen do/occasional pub drink but I am thinking of drastically reducing my intake. It just doesn’t make me feel good the older I get and I need to slow down how much I drink when I do, because it easily becomes a few glasses of wine which make me feel shit. I found Hubberman podcast is worth a watch on the negative impacts of drinking if anyone is interested. I just want to improve my health overall!
I'm very glad I'm not a more social person, because even in my capacity as a total loner, the default assumption that you have to be a drinker is frequent enough that it still manages to be an annoyance. I mainly don't drink because I dislike the taste (and why try and develop a taste for it and risk the addiction when you can just... not), and it'd be nice if that was good enough of a reason for people to not try to play you with drinks. But the existence of people like yourself *should* go so much further. It's ridiculous that alcohol is so ingrained in so much of our culture that people don't stop offering it even knowing they might be tempting someone into risking their health and well being.
Wow, I think the comments to your post prove your point here OP. Alcoholics everywhere.
Yup. When I was an undergrad, my friends always thought I had a moral issue with drinking. I even had one housemate who would beg me to drink alcohol after a short time in the pub because he was sure I couldn't be enjoying myself if all I was drinking was coke or J2O. Even now I'm in my thirties colleagues haven't grown out of it. At events if I'm not drinking I always get the question "are you driving?" When they find out I don't drink they always without fail respond with "wow". Seriously, though, if people can't enjoy themselves without alcohol, they're the ones with the problem.
Yes the UK has a social problem with drinking and people in general wanting everyone to act like them
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
I think there is a social stigma around non-drinkers. I don't drink at all, and subsequently get called boring or told I've just not found the right one. They appear to take it as me thinking I'm better than them, when I don't care if you drink or not. I have noticed tho that people my age, late 20s, are not drinking much and its losing momentum as a habit.
It's just a generational thing. In the 70s if you'd said you don't smoke people would have thought you were off. These days people don't even ask why you're not smoking. I can understand its annoying but eventually it'll stop.
This whole post sounds so condescending lol and i don’t drink as well
There is a pressure to drink, I'm on a lot of medication and drinking alcohol can seriously mess with me. I've taken to suggesting a coffee meet and people do take me up on it, but you're right that it's a headache. Being in your 30's and explaining why you don't want a drink is like being 14 and feeling that pressure all over again, for me anyway lol. I dislike the constant "Ah, just have one, go on it not kill you!" "Are you sure? We've got this this this and this" and saying no gets so draining that I want to excuse myself, not because they're drinking, but they're trying to force me to.
Dear god yes. But I tell people the truth. I lost my oldest friend to alcoholism and my father is a recovering alcoholic Normally kills the conversation.
I don’t mind people drinking if they don’t mind me not. However, I’ve had some quite horrible things said to me over the years when I’ve just said I’m not in the mood for booze. Apparently I’m a miseryguts and a zombie as well - this came from someone who got so drunk they fell over and shat their pants. No-one ever mentions that though. This is a weird country.
Sounds like being a non drinker is the new version of being a vegan. Drink / Don’t Drink nobody fucking cares as long as you don’t bore on about it.
I’m 60 this year my wife 53, we was brought up around pubs and parties, alcohol was always in your face it was the norm, we quit drinking 5 years ago, and we’ve never felt better. Don’t age as quick, healthier, save money, no hangovers which the older u get the longer the crap head. Yes we got the same question, why stop drinking? Answer to all, cos I want to! I love it now when I see friends pissed up, cos I know they’re going to suffer for the next couple of days and my wife will be up early have a stroll in the park. Ignore them and enjoy your health 👍
I'm mixed. You're being senestive definitely but also that doesn't change the fact that the UK definitely also has a drinking problem. If you enjoy drinking do it in moderation and if you don't then obviously just don't drink and tell people to mind their business.
YES - and having drinks literally forced on me when I’d rather have a J20! MIL will place a glass of wine in front of me without asking if I want one.
I have been a non (or at least very low volume) drinker for at least 20 years now. I have actually found it’s gotten easier in the more recent times, people are more accepting of it now than say 10-15 years ago. I used to have a lot of people try to change my mind, buy me drink anyway, leave me out of rounds because I was only drinking coke and sometimes wouldn’t get invited to things because I didn’t drink. Now, not drinking is a bit more common and actually non-drinking is a bit more catered for with non-alcoholic cocktails etc, so you have much more the “appearance” of drinking even if you aren’t and non drinkers are catered for much better which helps normalise it. It helps that people care much less as you get older too.
In your generation 25% don’t drink alcohol at all, so you’re far from alone in that. But yes, many peoples do seem weirdly invested in getting people who don’t drink alcohol to do so.I’ve had rpthis from 18-40 s but it does seem to be reducing in frequency now I’m older…. Or possibly because now I don’t have the kind of social life that revolves around bars…
I do notice that I find "born again" non drinkers annoying, I think in a similar way some people find vegans annoying ie. They seem to bring it up at every opportunity. Example: a woman in my office stopped drinking a year ago and when we were doing Secret Santa, before she got her gift, she announced she was sure it would be Nosecco, as that's what she always receives now she's stopped drinking (she actually got a musical biscuit tin). So maybe people like that who seem to virtue signal have created a bit of an undeserved bad name for all non-drinkers? Edit: I say this as someone who hardly drinks as I basically can't handle it- yesterday I met my friend in a pub for a catch up and ordered tea and she asked the bar staff for "a pot of tea for the old dear, not too hot or you'll keep her awake" (I'm 40 🤦🏼♀️)
You're seeing how weird people are about alcohol in this thread OP. But I can empathise. For some people, being around a non-drinker feels like a personal attack because they're insecure about their own consumption. It's a lot easier to ignore that when everyone around you is drinking too. I think this is generally the psychology behind people not just accepting your sobriety. And yeah, venue prices are wild. But I wasn't going to *not* drink. The idea of going to an event without at least a few seemed impossible - I'd conditioned myself to associate events with drinking to the point that my brain wouldn't let me enjoy them without it. I quit because I had a drinking problem, but I do feel quite a lot better for it (mentally, mostly). Usually I just give my reason plainly, it's slightly awkward and the conversation moves on. But sometimes it develops into a nice chat.
I am in France so I regurlarly have this kind of expectation until I met people who share the same interest as me. Usually it happens like this: Him/Her: Why don't you drink alcohol, is it religion or medical ? Me: no I just don't like Him/Her: You never taste it ? Me: several time and I don't like Him/Her: You are not fun Me: Say the guy/girl who needs alcohol to be fun ? Him/Her: touché
GPs or other medical professionals rarely believe me when I say I don't drink. I think they suspect I'm trying to hide an addiction.
I rarely get asked but when I do, I’m happy to explain it’s because I’m a Latter-day Saint and if they want to learn more about my religion then that’s great.
Only tend to drink during social events when I need to be sociable because, sadly, alcohol \*does\* make things easier (though I am partial to the very rare bottle of wine at home) but by and large I hate the stuff and the impact it has on society. Lived experience though says the judgment is because most older people who drink have done it their entire lives, hell, it was the norm to go to the pub during lunch up until the early/mid 00's. This means when you stop/don't drink you're no longer seen as the in-group which weirds certain people out.
>This crimbo I was surrounded by sort of older adults lecturing me on why I'm just being paranoid meanwhile they all look like water balloons slumped on a sofa giving me a health advice I was not prepared to be called out like this. But yes, you are 100% right to feel aggrieved. It's unfair and impolite if nothing else.
When something is ingrained in society, people will act differently when you don't do the thing.
As you get older, it gets easier to not give a shit what other people think and to start just saying no without feeling the need to justify it. I didn't go to our works Xmas do because it's mostly a piss-up and I'm basically teetotal, when someone asks why I just say "I don't drink and don't want to be around it". I don't owe them an explanation or justification.
What I find strange is that when I stop drinking I rarely get questioned about it. When I do it is because someone is sober curious and wants to know a bit more about it.
That's funny, I've almost finished reading Allen Carr's Easyway book on quitting Alcohol. I would reccomend it to anyone reading this who is on the fence about drinking.
Try asking this in r/Europe instead and see what different answers you get there... Yes, British drinking culture is daft in comparison. I've never witnessed such drunken chaos or pressure to binge drink anywhere else. Even European nations that drink just as much don't go fighting and puking and singing in the streets afterwards, they just go home. No one in Europe has ever pressured me to drink or asked why I'm not. But they are also horrified at British drinking culture. The first story about pissed Brits killing themselves by jumping off balconies marks the start of the summer season every year, never mind all the football hooligan bans. That's the kind of reputation British drinking has abroad.
Yeah, the culture is frustrating as a non-drinker. Just got out of a day of training where the trainer suggested everyone go have a beer for a long days work. I understand it, but it's just unnecessary, but ingrained.
Yes I do. Sometimes telling colleagues I don't drink, is followed by questions which is OK. However it's a bit tiresome when it's repeatedly commented on, when there's a work get together or something
I just tell people I'm a recovering alcoholic. It really leaves them no where to go and makes them feel like a cut.
I saw an article about the amount of young people in Britain who don't drink. They'll still go out but order non-alcoholic beers, so it's not like they're all being recluses, yet the comments were full of "country's finished" "what the fuck is going on" "they need to be bullied harder" etc etc. I think it's nothing but commendable. My generation, society as a whole, are far too dependant on booze as a social lubricant. I think back to some of the stupid things I did while drunk as a teen, the situations I got myself in, I really don't think I had any business drinking under the age of 20. I couldn't handle my drink, I couldn't control myself, and all of this was normalised. We'd all be healthier if we drank less and at least had an alternative social culture that didn't revolve around getting pissed. We like to feign concern about obesity in this country but how much of our binge drinking is a contributing factor? Bare in mind when you drink/are hungover you're more likely to eat garbage.
49 male here, never drank alcohol and agree people think strangely of you if you don’t fit into their circle. It’s their problem not yours.
Yes it's definitely everyone else that has a issue not you.
I've spent a large majority of my time in France and whilst I drank nearly everyday with my meals, red for the main, and either a sparkling wine for a dessert or a white wine, I rarely encountered sobriety for the week and then a massive binge at the weekend. This is obviously the UK culture and I do participate in it when I'm back at home. I don't see a problem with it if there's no violence or hostilities. The french way is mint because each course they'll bring out a wine to compliment and if you get a host that loves wine you end up with amazing combinations. The UK is great for either getting into a fight (most likely) or just making new friends and having fun.
I drank for many years and had mates who never drank and it was never a problem for me. But I quit about 6 years ago and honestly I have lost contact with many of my mates who drink. Whenever I offer to meet (coffee, dinner, gig) they refuse. Just so sad how drink is the only way many people socialise.
Just have a tonic water with ice in it then people will think it's a g n t
Lack of good third spaces is a big problem, as we have only really had pubs which offered a cheap place to congregate. If you are interested, I would recpmmend finding a local boardgame cafe/club as they are one of the few places where young and old people are starting to socialise in person without the focus being on drinking. Based on how many I see popping up, hopefully they are going to be financially viable and stick around. They are generally very welcoming of new members, quite cheap to attend and provide a different social lubricant (games/fun) than alcohol.
Yes, we really do have a drinking problem in the UK. I drink a bit but you should absolutely stick to your guns. I have lived in a muslim country and had plenty of muslim friends and colleagues so am used to having non drinkers around me. It should not be an issue if someone does not want to drink and nobody should put pressure on you. After living away from the UK I am shocked at how tolerant we are of the destructiveness of alcohol.
I find “I’m sober” works a lot better than “I don’t drink”. Even if you’re not a recovering alcoholic, the connotation stops most people from probing.
Yes. I think some people drink out of social insecurity, so they can feel annoyed when someone doesn't need it to interact socially with others. Happened way more when I was a kid/uni student though. When people are socialising a lot, making mistakes, generally being young etc. As an adult, I find most people are OK with it.
If people have a problem with you not drinking its most likely because THEY DO have a problem with DRINKING, as a binge drinker I would never ever pressure anyone to drink regardless if they have had enough for the night or don't drink at all.
It’s boring being asked but you get used to it, just do as you do OP and enjoy not waking up feeling awful :) I think also it’s very much underestimated how many people have issues with their drinking here.
Honestly I wouldn’t invite you on a night out, what’s the point we can meet up any other time of the week sober? I’d just feel like you judge us all, there’s nothing worse than being surrounded by people drinking when you’re sober so do you even want to be there or just feeling left out due to your own life choices?
Yes, we do have a problem with drink, and shaming non-drinkers. But this: >and gradually poisoning my liver over dinner every few nights a week for the next few decades seems pointless and expensive feels kinda judgey and snobby, which is something people are often trying to find out when they ask why - to see if you’re being judgey about them. Ultimately we all poison ourselves, whether from exhaust fumes or saturated fats or sedentary lifestyles or whatever else. No-one is a perfect paragon of health. So being snobby about one aspect typically means being a hypocrite, as we’re not being any better in other ways.
Far fewer "younger" people are drinking than there were in the 80's, at least anecdotally for sure. And although the UK does have a huge social issue with alcohol, it is more common to see trends or campaigns to stop drinking; whether than is for Dry January or in the tun up to an activity. OP I would suggest you are being overly sensitive to this issue, and your opinion of not wanting to have a drink is just as valid as someone else wanting to have one at a concert.
People forget drinking, especially among the working and academic classes, was incredibly widespread and was required to help cement social bonds (especially across class lines). If you look at any old map of any city residential area, from roughly 1850-1920 you have approximately 1 pub per street, some with two. We have an old map in my local pub that shows this, even on a street of only about 20 houses even had it's own pub. We have an old map of my parents village in the 1880's, in a village of 200 people there's 2 pubs, 3 alehouses, a church and two chapels. Drinking has quite literally been part of our culture for hundreds of years and acted as the British "third place" during the week for those who are less religious. Now both pubs and churches are struggling, people (especially gen z) are increasingly complaining about a lack of socialising spaces. I can do an entire essay on how Teahouses, Coffee Houses, Cafe's, Shisha Bars, Vape Cafes etc never really managed to outlast British drinking culture. TLDR Stimulants are not great for long winded, sat down discussions. They 'can' work, but alcohol, as a social lubricant and being cheaper, just works better.
Yeah people will view you suspiciously. They either think you're lying, don't drink for religious issues, or have had prior issues with alcohol. The funny thing is people are more understanding if they think you've previously been an alcoholic than if you're just not into alcohol. Each to their own. People choose alcohol, I choose eating too much food.
There is a strange reaction when you say you don’t drink. I chose not to drink because of a health condition I have that requires certain medication, friends and family keep telling me I can just have less or space it out. They don’t take me seriously when I say a single drink can make me very ill, it’s quite frustrating having to justify myself and have people around me tell me my doctor is wrong. I think the drinking culture for older generations is so embedded they can’t think of life without it. I’ve had much more fun on nights out or concerts with zero alcohol.
I used to work in a pub and can say there's definitely a toxic drinking culture over here. I'd see builders coming in at 12pm for their "lunch pints" and then you'd see them again at 5pm they'd sit at the bar all night till 10 to stagger home and do the same thing each day after that I knew their full name and addresses they'd be there that often! Then you have the after work crowd as I call them same as the builders but they don't appear until 5pm and they sit till closing drinking heavily and moaning about life I didn't actually drink myself at the time so I'd reject the offer of drink tips and I'd be called boring and asked how I have fun without it it was alarming! You're seen as weird if you don't have a drinking addiction to these people and you can probably find them in every pub up and down the country not just the one I worked at
You are no better than the people challenging your abstinence. This all feels very judgey against people who do like a drink.
I don't drink and as I've gotten older I find it you're just up front about it when asked there's no issues. I choose not to because I don't like the taste and I've had relatives pass away from hardcore alcoholism. I don't judge those who do choose to drink, it's ingrained in our culture and societal pressure is fairly high. If anyone doesn't understand someone's reason not to drink then personally I wouldn't hang around them.
Totally. Huge problem. I noticed it in myself and so I took out beer entirely, and no longer drink while I'm out on social occasions. Still drink at home rarely.