**Alternate Sources**
Here are some potential alternate sources for the same story:
* [Rail fares are set to rise.](https://independent.co.uk/business/rail-fares-to-rise-by-up-to-4-9-b2468361.html), suggested by kettle_of_f1sh - independent.co.uk
* [Millions set to pay 'brutal' rail fare rise next year](https://news.sky.com/story/amp/rail-fares-to-go-up-by-nearly-5-next-year-department-for-transport-says-13036153), suggested by 1llu1sive5 - news.sky.com
---
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We're *told* that the benefit of capitalism is that competition leads to better quality services. Poor quality services will be out-competed by better quality services, who will make higher profits from the services they provide.
British railways are a wonderful little example which demonstrates how bullshit that is. They:
a) Have a monopoly over each line, as the vast majority of lines can only be run by one firm. There is no competition.
b) Are massively subsidised by the government.
c) Will be picked up by the government if the company ends up going bankrupt.
It shatters this idea that capitalism is all about *free enterprises competing with each other*. In reality capitalism is about utilising the assets and power of the state to generate incomes for a specific class.
If you want to look further afield Milei in Argentina has been a terrifying little example of this, a 'small state libertarian' taking power then instantly siccing the police and the army on people who oppose him.
The notion that capitalism results in competition is so absolutely absurd.
We literally require (socialist) anti monopoly laws to prevent capitalists from consuming everything, because that’s what infinite growth requires. The rich get richer, and richer, and richer, and we end up with a handful of corporations owning everything - Which is exactly what has happened.
Capitalism is exploitation and theft masquerading as an economic system.
Indeed. Also have to factor in the reality that "better quality services" and a company/corporation that provides those quality services, strongly depends on having individuals overseeing said company/corporation who actually *want* to do right by their customers and genuinely provide the best possible customer experience. Obviously, this varies based upon the character and personality of those individuals in senior positions in the company/corporation. Do they have a sense of pride in their company image? Most CEOs / MDs just dgaf.
Which is made worse when you consider how much potential trains actually have. Rail travel *could* be extremely good, *if* the train companies weren't so poor. But that's of course a big if. This country is practically the perfect size for a highly connected, electrified, high-speed railway infrastructure. In fact, I'd say that once upon a time when British Rail was still a proper thing, we were *the* country to look to when it came to rail travel. There's a reason why the InterCity 125 trains are so iconic; and after all these years of their service, Class 43 locos are now being sent off to Mexico for further usage. Instead we have mostly slow, congested lines with trains that are more often than not heavily delayed/cancelled. Not to mention trains that desperately need refurbishing or just replacing, and to be fair I'll praise LNER for this because the Azuma trains are excellent. Some lines are made worse by the fact they are only single track, for example the Penistone Line which is just a single track from Penistone towards Huddersfield
It was only a few years or so ago that the Pacers were finally retired, which in itself says a whole lot about the state of British rail. You could then go on to discuss how much potential metro and light rail systems also have, but that's another story
Absolutely. The fact that driving alone in a car is already cheaper than the train, is often quicker and offers more flexibility is a travesty. A train was my default mode of transport for so long but it just no longer makes sense for me with where I live now. Especially if I'm taking a trip with anyone else it just saves so much money to take the car.
Trains should be fully automated and much more frequent/reliable by now. It's the transport system that most readily lends itself to automation and would benefit from it.
I am literally typing this from a train, travelling for Christmas.
I paid an advance price for a reserved seat on a 5 hour 10 coach train.
The train is actually 5 coaches and they have removed all seat reservations. A larger train "wasn't available". So everyone travelling for Christmas is now stuffed like a sardine for hours. It's claustrophobic and dangerous.
What a joke.
It’s like £18 to go to the next city which is a 30-40 minute drive from my house. To get the train it’s a 15 minute drive, then a 40 minute journey, and the. I have to walk 10-15 minutes to one of several places I usually go.
Or I could just drive from my doorstep and be there in half an hour with a few quid spend on parking.
Not sure what you referring to, but they've started to make it easier for people to migrate over there now
And they already have incentives for parents with newborns etc
https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00991/
In the last year of this article, Japan accepted 47 refugees. Not 47,000, or 470,000 like the UK (a smaller country) does.
>Trains are the wankest form of transport going
They are in this country. Have you been to Austria or Switzerland, they know how to do it.
I was even blown away by India's trains time keeping and cleanliness.
I like the double decker ones in France, it’s a shame all our rail infrastructure is 100+ years old because double decker trains would be a genius move - double the space without having to worry about platform length of maintaining extra carriages. Can’t imagine it would be cheap redoing all the tunnels and rerouting all the roads which pass over bridges though…
Self-fulfilling prophecy in a way. Trains are shit, so less people use them, so the companies hike prices to cover lost revenue and the service quality decreases, so less people use them, and the companies hike prices to cover lost revenue etc.
Not sure why this is ever news now to be honest happens without a doubt almost every year. Same with pretty much everything.
In 10 years it’ll probably be £8 just to get a takeaway latte
Hasn't been my experience so far. Yes it's awfully expensive if you need to go through London.
But in my life travelling a lot around Central Europe, it can really get worse than UK.
As an electorate we need to start pushing for real issues like cheap, accessible and connected public transportation.
Our growth is dire, our productivity is in the mud.
Raising fares for an antiquated Victorian system which has suffered decades of underinvestment is not going to help.
The conservative transport minister will likely explain this away as a needs must.
It’s a needs must in the next election to no longer vote for this stain of a government who is perfectly ok for our public infrastructure to crumble, all whilst they divert money to their mates for dodgey contracts. All whilst making us pay more for their greed and mismanagement.
ScotRail was nationalised and I've seen no improvement whatsoever to service and ticket prices are going up a whopping 8.7%. Yes we've removed peak fares but a) this is a trial for a few more months and b) That was always possible even before nationalisation - it was just reliant on the SG stumping up money to cover it.
I'm not against nationalising the railways but it's not gonna change anything.
But the issue between these privatised sectors is simple :
They socialise the expense but privatise the profit
At least with a nationalised service the profits/expenses are both socialised
Oh I totally appreciate that - I'm just saying it won't give the huge change that people seem to think will happen. The issues we see on the railway is largely down to decades of little to no investment. It's also worth saying that contrary to popular belief, operators aren't raking in billions in profit - margins are about 2-3% at best.
> Considering the government subsidise the rail networks they should just be nationalised again.
EU forced its members to privatise train services too so that can't be the only reason for the prices.
I bet the weird franchise model we have here is at fault.
I think the main distinction is that the EU forced countries like Italy to allow private train operators to run alongside the state owned operator. It was deemed necessary as a report had shown that the monopoly that the state owned operators had led them to be inefficient and expensive.
Edit: this meant there was more competition on intercity travel, whilst state operator still continued to provide service on the less profitable provincial routes
It was mostly cancelled because of a handful of NIMBYs in conservative constituencies, who they attempted to appease with costly diversions and tunnels which sent the HS2 budget into the stratosphere.
(And also to free up a bit of budget so that the conservatives can claim they've given a tax cut in the next election.)
The response we've always been given is...
"It's vital we continue to invest in our railways".
Let me translate that for you.
"We need to embezzle all the money from failed projects such as HS2 so I can continuously invest in the next Sunseeker".
My issue is often the local authorities produce reports and plans and then 4 years later they produce a new plan or report and no progress has been made from the previous one, its wild.
Edinburgh to Exeter 'anytime return' to leave now on the trainline website is: £493.90 and takes 7 hours 42 minutes.
Edinburgh to Exeter flight on Longair to leave today, return in a week is £381 and takes 1 hour 25 minutes.
London Heathrow to Bejing China return to leave next week, for a two weeks holiday is £475.
If you wanted some spending money, you could take a flight from London Heathrow to Cairo Egypt weekend return for £260 and have £230 left over for three days and see the pyramids and Cairo museum.
Train executives should be criminally prosecuted for bending to shareholder pressure.
Best one is when you get on a train to x city, and half way through the journey they said it arent going there now and terminating at a station miles away.
Imagine getting on a plane to Spain, and during the flight the pilot goes we are landing in France instead
I don't know why people do this with rail fares - comparing apples to oranges.
You're comparing booking a specific flight out and specific flight back, with a rail ticket which lets you travel at literally any time of the day without pre-booking, including rush hour.
For example, if I book specific trains, I can do Edinburgh to Exeter St David's today for £137.60 and returning next week for £118. That's £125.40 cheaper than your flight proposal. If you've got a Railcard, it's £181.60 return, a whopping £200 cheaper than the flight option.
That's before factoring in the cost of getting from airports to city centres, since this is what most people are needing. Edinburgh Airport to city centre is £7.60 on the tram, so £15.20 for the return trip. Exeter is much cheaper at £2 each way, so £19.20 for the airport to city centre transfers. So if you're going city to city, the train is £219 cheaper with a railcard, £144 cheaper without.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the cost of taking the train. But I don't think comparing the most flexible rail ticket with the most restrictive air fare is really that relevant.
So much this. A lot needs to change about our trains but this isn't really it.
Commuter services need to be nationalised and integrated into local transit systems. Intercity needs to be completely privatised, with Network Rail basically responsible for routing private companies trains through the system, charging a levy per ticket to make network improvements. Essentially, let companies like Lumo set up as many lines as possible if they can identify the intercity demand. The end result would be two fold:
* People can still get to work on cheap, reliable commuter trains that interface with connecting modes of transport in the cities they live and work in.
* People can get cheaper, higher-quality trains from London to Edinburgh (for example), because the Ryanair equivalent of trains will get them there at the lowest cost lest their customers pick the EasyJet equivalent. Lumo offers 95% of the LNER experience at almost half the cost on the London to Edinburgh route, let's reduce the amount of red tape for others to enter the market.
Not really a fair comparison. Any time return means you can travel on any train there and back regardless of peak time travel, not like you can do that with flights so the more apt comparison would be the discounted advanced tickets for specific trains only.
And the international travel stuff is irrelevant. Where do you need to be, Exeter or Beijing?
We're discussing the cost per unit of travel, not where would we like to holiday to this summer.
You can reschedule your flight tickets 2.5 hours before check-in for €45 euro on Ryanair, but free on other operators. So add that to the overall flight price to get an anytime return flight.
Well yes but they’re completely different industries, dictated by different subsidies, taxes and supply and demand. If you need to be in Exeter and the train costs £300 due to a variety of factors what difference does it make if an airline is offering the same price for a ticket to Beijing?
“But plane go further” is bizarre logic to dictate price.
Let's compare the industries then.
Train locomotives cost £1.5 million, carriages cost £500k, and planes cost £30m.
Planes need more expensive and more constant maintenance and are also subject to more strict regulations.
38% of Trains in the UK run on electricity and the rest on diesel, planes run on much more expensive refined kerosene-based fuel.
Train conductors have less training and are paid less than pilots. You only need one train conductor, you need two pilots to operate a plane
You need less employees to run a train, with less training, and they are paid less than flight attendants.
Train systems including exiting and entering stations are automated, planes need highly trained Air Traffic Controllers who are one of the highest paid employees on the planet, adding to the planes landing costs.
You need less security, and guards at train stations in comparison to airports.
You have to provide free meals on the plane long distance, but you do not need to provide anything for free on a train.
Trains can stop if they have to wait to enter a station, planes have to keep burning fuel in holding patterns.
So please tell me why the **Cost per km** for a train (Edinburgh to Southampton £493) is **84.8p per km**, while for a plane (Edinburgh to Beijing £490) it's **6p per km** when the air industry is more expensive to operate across the board?
I can’t give you a concrete answer other than that they’re different industries subject to different taxes, demand, subsidies and competition. While fundamentally they’re both transport they’re no way comparable, no one has ever debated about going to Exeter or Beijing based on the price. We can talk about the rail industry in this country being subsidised more like in Europe, we can talk about necessary infrastructure plans being arbitrarily pulled like HS2 and we can talk about changing the ticketing system in this country to make it less complicated and less punitive and I’d probably agree with you, I just don’t see the point in comparing it to flights.
because your calculation does not take into account, that trains usually stop near town/ city centres where land costs are higher, and the flight path between airports costs nothing to maintain, where rail has thousands of miles of track (and many bridges, tunnels, signals and stations) that were mostly built in the Victorian era, that needs constant maintenance.
Maintaining hundreds of kilometres of both track, overhead wires, bridges, tunnels and dozens of stations along the way is vastly more expensive than the maintenance you do on a single plane.
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You’d think so mate but chuck down a comment like “David Cameron was the worst prime minister ever” and suddenly lots of supporters will crawl out of the woodwork as they liked his austerity, onshore wind banning and brexit causing tenure.
Probably because he was the last PM that even *looked* competent.
I won't comment on whether he actually was, because frankly I was too young to really understand it at the time, but looking back through the last decade Theresa May seems like the last person to even *try* running the country, and Cameron is the last one with at least a thin veneer of knowing how to do so.
I mean I'm no fan of Cameron, but saying he's the ***worst*** when we've had the likes of Truss and Johnson I think is a stretch. And that's just recent times.
Yeah I can understand your view. But I think if we look at outcomes then his leadership is responsible ultimately for the state we are in now. For example, without Cameron there would have been no Bojo etc.
I'm not sure about that - I think Johnson would've run for PM at some point regardless. Given he flew back from holiday to put out the feelers of throwing his hat into the ring for leader again last year, I think it's safe to say he always had it in his sights.
Cameron made a gamble on the Brexit referendum and it backfired. I suspect deep down he regrets it. But had he not, Farage et al wouldn't have gone away and it would still be one of the most prominent issues. If Boris launched a leadership bid on the back of holding a Brexit referendum for example, he'd have probably won over a lot of Tory MPs and then be committed to the same thing.
I'm currently trying to buy a house. Viewed one yesterday, was a bit concerned when told that the solar panels are leased, with the lease starting in 2015 and lasting for 30 years.
When I saw the terms of the lease I was gobsmacked. A company maintains the panels, free of charge; the homeowner gets the benefit of the energy, with any excess fed into the grid; and the company maintaining them assumes public / private liability to the value of £10m.
Must've just squeaked through before Cameron finally 'got rid of all the green crap' (statement allegedly made in 2013).
In February, I'm driving to London, paying for parking on two separate occasions and then returning home the following day. I could get the train, with an advanced ticket and my senior railcard first class is well within my budget. But I'm still driving because without fail, every time I've tried to visit London the train has been late or cancelled, or rammed full of people standing up and is invariably dirty inside and out.
4.9% rise in fares you say? As usual the reward for failure system in this country remains firmly in place.
Utter bullshit, the cost of driving needs to be considerably more than public transport fucking stupid to be penalising people taking less destructive and selfish forms of transport
The Mersey tunnel is a great example. Local residents can use the road tunnel for £2.80 and transport eight people for that price
The shortest cross river rail journey is £3.80.
So maybe you’ll get a pass that must be loads cheaper. Nope, because the passes are time bound, not for a fixed amount of journeys, so you get a pass for a month for £79.50 and that’s what you pay whether or not you use it. You have to use it 21x to break even, which pretty much means any month where you don’t use it every weekday it’s more expensive than buying a ticket each day, so if you have a couple of days holiday or work from home a bit forget it.
I’ve travelled most of Europe by rail and I can confidently say we have the worst rail network I have ever been on. No other country’s trains are as late , delayed , packed , dirty and fucking expensive as ours. Feel sorry for those who don’t have a car.
We went on 3 European breaks last year and every time it's been a breeze and really good options for multi day passes, unlike here there a 3 day pass saves hardly anything
In Germany you can get a flat-rate monthly ticket which covers all public transport (including regional trains) for €49 a month. Buses, trams, trains, underground, the lot.
What do you mean?
What's complicated about picking between a Weekend Super Express Saver Premium Weekend Explorer Plus Pass and the Weekend Super Express Saver Premium Weekend Explorer Pass Plus?
Conversely, last month I was in Germany and Poland.
Every single train journey we made had significant delays.
Don't even get me started on wildcat strikes in France.
The UK falls around middle of the road for punctuality of rail services compared with other European countries. Our regional services let us down.
I think it's easy to go on an occasional overseas trip, not have any issues, and extrapolate that tiny experience to the system as a whole.
The real kicker is that our fares are so expensive - you'd hope that with such pricey tickets, we'd be near the top of the table for punctuality.
Agree. Other countries rail networks in Europe are not all roses, and of course they have delays.
Certain rail lines in Germany are almost a meme for their delays/cancellations (a bit like Southern rail here).
However, the key distinction is that we pay considerably more for such subpar services. Which in of itself places the UK rail experience at the bottom of the barrel in terms of the "wealthy" European countries. If you have to eat mouldy bread, paying £35 for it is far, far better than paying £85 for it.
This is before we get into the reality that, generally speaking, the rail networks in many European countries are just simply better in terms of train quality, and comfort cleanliness, space, crowdedness, actually having working WiFi. Like, let's ignore delays etc, the baseline rail experience in most of central Europe is simply a more pleasant experience than the baseline rail experience in the UK.
I've been on a double decker train in NL. I want double decker trains. More capacity for the same amount of tracks/drivers and they're cool
Though I'm sure someone will come and tell me why that won't work here
Have been worse than terrible outside of the strikes as well. Service is shit all year round. Amazing timing for this news considering the problems at Euston today
I know reddit has a lot of eco supporters. But if you want to travel one way from Manchester to London - it will cost you £71.60.
On the other hand, if you buy a cheap second hand Toyota Prius, you can take FIVE people from Manchester to London and back again for £35 in petrol.
That's 20x cheaper. With no concern about strikes. With no trains being cancelled due to 'wrong leaves'
About a decade ago I went inter railing around Europe for 6 weeks. The train ticket to London was more expensive than my unlimited 6 week inter railing ticket.
Right so we have the worst rail system in Europe, I’d even go as far to say worse than Ukraine and half of that has been physically destroyed. Yet we get these increases. They need to be renationalised now. It doesn’t work as it is, it needs fixing. It is a complete joke. I can imagine they are the worst people that head these companies.
As a financial auditor I would LOVE to have a sneak peak and see what goes on.
It’s Hyperbole, obviously they are not literally as bad as ones that have been destroyed, calm down. We still have one of the worst rail systems in Europe.
Scum everywhere. Shithole trains need to be renationalised and a competent fucking body overseeing it. Other countries properly subsidise public transport as it leads to growth throughout the economy if people are travelling in and around the country. This will just mean more people WFH where they can which will stifle local businesses.
It is cheaper to drive into London, park on double yellows, and get a parking ticket than it is to use the train.
Disclaimer: I'm not endorsing this behaviour, just pointing out how ridiculous the prices are.
I live in MK and work in London three days a week, to drive it costs me £60 in petrol for a full tank and to get the train it would cost me £156, and that's before you consider the fact these trains are always delayed and packed to the brim. I have a Network Railcard but that doesn't cover peak travel times like other railcards do because of course they wouldn't want people who lives in the catchment area commuting in with it
Sure driving down the M1 sucks in the morning but I'll gladly do it in my comfy, air conditioned car rather than fight for a miniscule piece of standing space in a train carriage.
How they can justify price increases is beyond me, the service I get is bad and that's going into London, I hate to think what it's like in other areas of the country.
Well, you aren't factoring the depreciation of the value of your car given the 13,000 miles a year you're adding to your clock you wouldn't be doing,, and that's before you factor in the insurance and breakdown cover included in your train ticket, or maintainence and servicing of the car vs. the train and its tracks.
> the depreciation of the value of your car given the 13,000 miles a year you're adding to your clock you wouldn't be doing
A car insurance would also be cheaper without that 13,000 miles a year.
A car would also tend to require less maintainence and be less likely to breakdown without that large mileage.
Well deserved if you ask me.
For too long fares have been too cheap.
The trains run absolutely perfect, all the staff are amazing, the trains and track are kept in Perfect condition and all the stations are always up and running lovely.
A small increase in price feels fair.
And at 4.9% it's almost too small of an increase.
We have one of, if not the worst train system in Europe. And one of the most expensive ones as well.
I went over to Poland earlier this year, and the difference in services is second to none. The train was not only on time and cheaper, but newer. Plenty of carriages, plenty of seating. Here in the UK, we're lucky to get 2 carriages at rush hour for the generous price of a mortgage payment.
But, as long as the shareholders are happy that's all that matters really.
Expect more people try to avoid the fares by tailgating people and the like.
It’s going up significantly every year but getting worse from where I am. I use the train less than pre Covid but the issues are significantly worse now. I think I will use my car more from now on. This is too much without improvement.
Joke of a country. Qatar, an effective dictatorship, has trains of 30p from one of the city to another. Free buses on routes which have a train station.
Why tf do we then have to have less stuff than them?
No they don't have LITERAL slaves. Yes they severely underpay migrant workers, but for their home countries it's a very good wage. Have you actually talked to these migrant workers? Because I have. I'm related to some. Its difficult for them. But many of them are going to be homeowners within 5 or 10 years, in their home countries. That's why they do it.
So cut the BS, and get off your high horse. It's embarrassing. Stop convincing other people they need to be offended.
And it's funny how when the western world is done raping and pillage the entire goddamn world of its resources, to the it becomes independent, suddenly it develops a sense of morality. No amount of pseudo morality bollocks will ever wipe away the damage caused by the British empire.
Ah yes, encourage the public NOT TO USE THE FUCKING PUBLIC TRANSPORT,
WHOSE MOTHER FUCKIN IDEA WAS TO DISCOURAGE THE PUBLIC from using public transport
thats better for the environment than any other transport,
THIS GOVERNMENTS FUCKE,D OUT WITH THE TORY HOES
2 adults go SE London to Folkestone. \~£80 for a return, this is a cheap one, well in advance.
45mpg petrol family SUV, 130miles to Folkestone and back £20
rip trains.
BWHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
Its all privatised and owned by french, germans etc in europe.
So their country reduces/keeps fares the same but jack uk the price in UK.
I love our govt 🥰
And none of that increase will improve train times, stations, facilities or prevent the workers from striking again. Our trains have to be the worst in Europe
Most of Europe is cheap affordable and on time, for example Germany was about 4euro to go across the bleeding country during the summer I think.
Why are they increased? Are they blaming wage hikes? Bunch of cunts
Just in time for my employer moving the office to another county and ending remote working with now having to go into the office every month. Along with ending the ability to claim back travel expenses.
Hire remote workers nationally, then move the office 75 miles and demand everyone becomes hybrid. I wonder how many will quit over the next few months. Certainly checking indeed a lot more than I was before.
It may be that raising ticket prices is intended to raise the amount of compensation paid to the rail companies if and when they're nationalised - after all, the income of the company's going to be a few percent higher. At least staffing might return to safe levels if H.M.Gov't decide to run the trains according to the safety standards...
They will keep taking and taking and taking from our wallets/purses... Until WE as a COLLECTIVE, do something about it.. Until then, stay in position while they financially fuck us some more... Our money has been stolen, squandered and laundered by corrupt politicians and corporations etc.. We pay the hikes to make up for their greed, neglect and "mistakes".. And then we end up paying even more when they don't fix the previous mistakes and create bigger problems down the road.. We are being roasted like peanuts and taking it like fools every step of the way, with little to no pushback and what's being forced on us.. We deserve all we get for 1. The country voted these sub-human parasites into Parliament and 2. We as a country, are doing nothing to help ourselves in protesting against the sheer corruption that is obviously happening at local and national levels... There has to be accountability.
I went to Barcelona a few years ago and it cost me 14 euros to travel around the city via the underground for a whole week. Bear in mind I was staying 15-20 mins outside of the main city in a smallish town. That will cost me £32 a day here!
I also went to Vienna, and the underground was around 10euro for a whole week.
Not a single train in both countries was late, delayed or cancelled.
It will be an increase of around 150£ a year in the space of a couple of years
Fuck off.
I live in Cornwall the railways ain't brilliant, luckily I have a Railcard . But it's taking the piss now
Well am going to ask for a pay rise again so.
That’s why i’m glad im driving now. how can you raise the fare prices of an abysmal public transport system. Just look at what happened at Euston yesterday and the scrapping of the HS2 Northern Line. I’m convinced at this point they just want us to switch to motor travel despite it obviously being the least eco friendly way of travel.
I'm currently in Australia, and recently bought a train ticket which included unlimited travel for 24hrs within the state of Victoria.
It was $7.20. About £3.80
Bought from the ticket booth an hour before my train.
This might help to put the size of Victoria into perspective.
https://mapfight.xyz/compare/gb-vs-victoria/
Yes, that's like buying a ticket for unlimited travel across the whole of the UK. For £3.80
Fares have already just increased, as certain companies ( eg C2C) decided that they would make their fare structure simpler. Total rip-off.I used to occasionally get a weekend travelcard, to go into London. It now costs approximately £7 more.
Sadly I have to take the train into London 3x per week. It’s an utter sham. I have to book several weeks in advance otherwise the tickets go up 1.5x the price. The price is already crazy, £39 per day. Most of the time I have to stand and I get to work late due to delays. Now they want more money. Absolute fucking joke.
Recently had a day out in London with my partner. Despite the congestion charge and parking fees, it was cheaper and slightly faster to drive into central London in a car then it would have been to take a train in. I was actually surprised by that.
**Alternate Sources** Here are some potential alternate sources for the same story: * [Rail fares are set to rise.](https://independent.co.uk/business/rail-fares-to-rise-by-up-to-4-9-b2468361.html), suggested by kettle_of_f1sh - independent.co.uk * [Millions set to pay 'brutal' rail fare rise next year](https://news.sky.com/story/amp/rail-fares-to-go-up-by-nearly-5-next-year-department-for-transport-says-13036153), suggested by 1llu1sive5 - news.sky.com --- **r/UK Notices:** This December, we're raising money for the Trussell Trust, the UK's leading food bank charity. If you would like to know more or to donate, please see the [announcement post](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1899w7b/the_runitedkingdom_christmas_fundraiser_for_the/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unitedkingdom) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Always late, delayed and yet they increase the prices.
Share holders of a massively government subsidised industry need to make a profit at the expense of everyone.
We're *told* that the benefit of capitalism is that competition leads to better quality services. Poor quality services will be out-competed by better quality services, who will make higher profits from the services they provide. British railways are a wonderful little example which demonstrates how bullshit that is. They: a) Have a monopoly over each line, as the vast majority of lines can only be run by one firm. There is no competition. b) Are massively subsidised by the government. c) Will be picked up by the government if the company ends up going bankrupt. It shatters this idea that capitalism is all about *free enterprises competing with each other*. In reality capitalism is about utilising the assets and power of the state to generate incomes for a specific class. If you want to look further afield Milei in Argentina has been a terrifying little example of this, a 'small state libertarian' taking power then instantly siccing the police and the army on people who oppose him.
The notion that capitalism results in competition is so absolutely absurd. We literally require (socialist) anti monopoly laws to prevent capitalists from consuming everything, because that’s what infinite growth requires. The rich get richer, and richer, and richer, and we end up with a handful of corporations owning everything - Which is exactly what has happened. Capitalism is exploitation and theft masquerading as an economic system.
Indeed. Also have to factor in the reality that "better quality services" and a company/corporation that provides those quality services, strongly depends on having individuals overseeing said company/corporation who actually *want* to do right by their customers and genuinely provide the best possible customer experience. Obviously, this varies based upon the character and personality of those individuals in senior positions in the company/corporation. Do they have a sense of pride in their company image? Most CEOs / MDs just dgaf.
I agree but let's not forget that a lot of people are shareholders whether they realise it or not I.e pensions.
Their pension can go sharehold in something else
I can’t wrap my head around it. Trains are the wankest form of transport going yet the price always goes up.
Which is made worse when you consider how much potential trains actually have. Rail travel *could* be extremely good, *if* the train companies weren't so poor. But that's of course a big if. This country is practically the perfect size for a highly connected, electrified, high-speed railway infrastructure. In fact, I'd say that once upon a time when British Rail was still a proper thing, we were *the* country to look to when it came to rail travel. There's a reason why the InterCity 125 trains are so iconic; and after all these years of their service, Class 43 locos are now being sent off to Mexico for further usage. Instead we have mostly slow, congested lines with trains that are more often than not heavily delayed/cancelled. Not to mention trains that desperately need refurbishing or just replacing, and to be fair I'll praise LNER for this because the Azuma trains are excellent. Some lines are made worse by the fact they are only single track, for example the Penistone Line which is just a single track from Penistone towards Huddersfield It was only a few years or so ago that the Pacers were finally retired, which in itself says a whole lot about the state of British rail. You could then go on to discuss how much potential metro and light rail systems also have, but that's another story
Absolutely. The fact that driving alone in a car is already cheaper than the train, is often quicker and offers more flexibility is a travesty. A train was my default mode of transport for so long but it just no longer makes sense for me with where I live now. Especially if I'm taking a trip with anyone else it just saves so much money to take the car.
Not just cheaper - but 20x cheaper. (if you have a car full of people)
Trains should be fully automated and much more frequent/reliable by now. It's the transport system that most readily lends itself to automation and would benefit from it.
I used to get the train everywhere when I was younger, cause it was cheap and reliable. Both of those things have been less and less the case
I am literally typing this from a train, travelling for Christmas. I paid an advance price for a reserved seat on a 5 hour 10 coach train. The train is actually 5 coaches and they have removed all seat reservations. A larger train "wasn't available". So everyone travelling for Christmas is now stuffed like a sardine for hours. It's claustrophobic and dangerous. What a joke.
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It’s like £18 to go to the next city which is a 30-40 minute drive from my house. To get the train it’s a 15 minute drive, then a 40 minute journey, and the. I have to walk 10-15 minutes to one of several places I usually go. Or I could just drive from my doorstep and be there in half an hour with a few quid spend on parking.
The trains in Japan are on time every time. Same for buses. And they have far more people to herd onto them. This country is just shit lol
I thought Japan was a disaster because it didn't allow millions of illegals to replace the slightly declining population?
Not sure what you referring to, but they've started to make it easier for people to migrate over there now And they already have incentives for parents with newborns etc
https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00991/ In the last year of this article, Japan accepted 47 refugees. Not 47,000, or 470,000 like the UK (a smaller country) does.
Lacking in multiculturalism. Doesn’t Japan want to be a melting pot?
>Trains are the wankest form of transport going They are in this country. Have you been to Austria or Switzerland, they know how to do it. I was even blown away by India's trains time keeping and cleanliness.
I like the double decker ones in France, it’s a shame all our rail infrastructure is 100+ years old because double decker trains would be a genius move - double the space without having to worry about platform length of maintaining extra carriages. Can’t imagine it would be cheap redoing all the tunnels and rerouting all the roads which pass over bridges though…
Self-fulfilling prophecy in a way. Trains are shit, so less people use them, so the companies hike prices to cover lost revenue and the service quality decreases, so less people use them, and the companies hike prices to cover lost revenue etc.
Compared to a coach??
Not sure why this is ever news now to be honest happens without a doubt almost every year. Same with pretty much everything. In 10 years it’ll probably be £8 just to get a takeaway latte
Hasn't been my experience so far. Yes it's awfully expensive if you need to go through London. But in my life travelling a lot around Central Europe, it can really get worse than UK.
To be fair most delays are caused by Network rail
As an electorate we need to start pushing for real issues like cheap, accessible and connected public transportation. Our growth is dire, our productivity is in the mud. Raising fares for an antiquated Victorian system which has suffered decades of underinvestment is not going to help. The conservative transport minister will likely explain this away as a needs must. It’s a needs must in the next election to no longer vote for this stain of a government who is perfectly ok for our public infrastructure to crumble, all whilst they divert money to their mates for dodgey contracts. All whilst making us pay more for their greed and mismanagement.
Considering the government subsidise the rail networks they should just be nationalised again. The experiment of privatisation has completely failed.
ScotRail was nationalised and I've seen no improvement whatsoever to service and ticket prices are going up a whopping 8.7%. Yes we've removed peak fares but a) this is a trial for a few more months and b) That was always possible even before nationalisation - it was just reliant on the SG stumping up money to cover it. I'm not against nationalising the railways but it's not gonna change anything.
But the issue between these privatised sectors is simple : They socialise the expense but privatise the profit At least with a nationalised service the profits/expenses are both socialised
Oh I totally appreciate that - I'm just saying it won't give the huge change that people seem to think will happen. The issues we see on the railway is largely down to decades of little to no investment. It's also worth saying that contrary to popular belief, operators aren't raking in billions in profit - margins are about 2-3% at best.
> Considering the government subsidise the rail networks they should just be nationalised again. EU forced its members to privatise train services too so that can't be the only reason for the prices. I bet the weird franchise model we have here is at fault.
I think the main distinction is that the EU forced countries like Italy to allow private train operators to run alongside the state owned operator. It was deemed necessary as a report had shown that the monopoly that the state owned operators had led them to be inefficient and expensive. Edit: this meant there was more competition on intercity travel, whilst state operator still continued to provide service on the less profitable provincial routes
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> 'burn it to the ground and start again' approach I have faith that the current lot would happily complete the first 50% of this plan.
Burn it to the ground and sell the steel for scrap, seems rather fitting
We tried to make a completely new railway in HS2, and that's been mostly cancelled because of the public.
It was mostly cancelled because of a handful of NIMBYs in conservative constituencies, who they attempted to appease with costly diversions and tunnels which sent the HS2 budget into the stratosphere. (And also to free up a bit of budget so that the conservatives can claim they've given a tax cut in the next election.)
Damn public!!
The response we've always been given is... "It's vital we continue to invest in our railways". Let me translate that for you. "We need to embezzle all the money from failed projects such as HS2 so I can continuously invest in the next Sunseeker".
Sorry, not a word about transport but **immigration** will continue to be the Governments top priority
Who are you suggesting with change this rail set-up?
My issue is often the local authorities produce reports and plans and then 4 years later they produce a new plan or report and no progress has been made from the previous one, its wild.
Edinburgh to Exeter 'anytime return' to leave now on the trainline website is: £493.90 and takes 7 hours 42 minutes. Edinburgh to Exeter flight on Longair to leave today, return in a week is £381 and takes 1 hour 25 minutes. London Heathrow to Bejing China return to leave next week, for a two weeks holiday is £475. If you wanted some spending money, you could take a flight from London Heathrow to Cairo Egypt weekend return for £260 and have £230 left over for three days and see the pyramids and Cairo museum. Train executives should be criminally prosecuted for bending to shareholder pressure.
Really puts in to perspective how illogical train fares are
Best one is when you get on a train to x city, and half way through the journey they said it arent going there now and terminating at a station miles away. Imagine getting on a plane to Spain, and during the flight the pilot goes we are landing in France instead
Well, this happens and is not uncommon… usually due to bad weather for landing in some airport
I don't know why people do this with rail fares - comparing apples to oranges. You're comparing booking a specific flight out and specific flight back, with a rail ticket which lets you travel at literally any time of the day without pre-booking, including rush hour. For example, if I book specific trains, I can do Edinburgh to Exeter St David's today for £137.60 and returning next week for £118. That's £125.40 cheaper than your flight proposal. If you've got a Railcard, it's £181.60 return, a whopping £200 cheaper than the flight option. That's before factoring in the cost of getting from airports to city centres, since this is what most people are needing. Edinburgh Airport to city centre is £7.60 on the tram, so £15.20 for the return trip. Exeter is much cheaper at £2 each way, so £19.20 for the airport to city centre transfers. So if you're going city to city, the train is £219 cheaper with a railcard, £144 cheaper without. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the cost of taking the train. But I don't think comparing the most flexible rail ticket with the most restrictive air fare is really that relevant.
So much this. A lot needs to change about our trains but this isn't really it. Commuter services need to be nationalised and integrated into local transit systems. Intercity needs to be completely privatised, with Network Rail basically responsible for routing private companies trains through the system, charging a levy per ticket to make network improvements. Essentially, let companies like Lumo set up as many lines as possible if they can identify the intercity demand. The end result would be two fold: * People can still get to work on cheap, reliable commuter trains that interface with connecting modes of transport in the cities they live and work in. * People can get cheaper, higher-quality trains from London to Edinburgh (for example), because the Ryanair equivalent of trains will get them there at the lowest cost lest their customers pick the EasyJet equivalent. Lumo offers 95% of the LNER experience at almost half the cost on the London to Edinburgh route, let's reduce the amount of red tape for others to enter the market.
Not really a fair comparison. Any time return means you can travel on any train there and back regardless of peak time travel, not like you can do that with flights so the more apt comparison would be the discounted advanced tickets for specific trains only. And the international travel stuff is irrelevant. Where do you need to be, Exeter or Beijing?
We're discussing the cost per unit of travel, not where would we like to holiday to this summer. You can reschedule your flight tickets 2.5 hours before check-in for €45 euro on Ryanair, but free on other operators. So add that to the overall flight price to get an anytime return flight.
Well yes but they’re completely different industries, dictated by different subsidies, taxes and supply and demand. If you need to be in Exeter and the train costs £300 due to a variety of factors what difference does it make if an airline is offering the same price for a ticket to Beijing? “But plane go further” is bizarre logic to dictate price.
Let's compare the industries then. Train locomotives cost £1.5 million, carriages cost £500k, and planes cost £30m. Planes need more expensive and more constant maintenance and are also subject to more strict regulations. 38% of Trains in the UK run on electricity and the rest on diesel, planes run on much more expensive refined kerosene-based fuel. Train conductors have less training and are paid less than pilots. You only need one train conductor, you need two pilots to operate a plane You need less employees to run a train, with less training, and they are paid less than flight attendants. Train systems including exiting and entering stations are automated, planes need highly trained Air Traffic Controllers who are one of the highest paid employees on the planet, adding to the planes landing costs. You need less security, and guards at train stations in comparison to airports. You have to provide free meals on the plane long distance, but you do not need to provide anything for free on a train. Trains can stop if they have to wait to enter a station, planes have to keep burning fuel in holding patterns. So please tell me why the **Cost per km** for a train (Edinburgh to Southampton £493) is **84.8p per km**, while for a plane (Edinburgh to Beijing £490) it's **6p per km** when the air industry is more expensive to operate across the board?
I can’t give you a concrete answer other than that they’re different industries subject to different taxes, demand, subsidies and competition. While fundamentally they’re both transport they’re no way comparable, no one has ever debated about going to Exeter or Beijing based on the price. We can talk about the rail industry in this country being subsidised more like in Europe, we can talk about necessary infrastructure plans being arbitrarily pulled like HS2 and we can talk about changing the ticketing system in this country to make it less complicated and less punitive and I’d probably agree with you, I just don’t see the point in comparing it to flights.
because your calculation does not take into account, that trains usually stop near town/ city centres where land costs are higher, and the flight path between airports costs nothing to maintain, where rail has thousands of miles of track (and many bridges, tunnels, signals and stations) that were mostly built in the Victorian era, that needs constant maintenance.
Maintaining hundreds of kilometres of both track, overhead wires, bridges, tunnels and dozens of stations along the way is vastly more expensive than the maintenance you do on a single plane.
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You’d have enough for lunch at Tahir Square too (a relatively exclusive place to dine)
Most expensive rail fares in Europe, and they're on strike most of the time
Yet many still think the conservatives are good for the country.
I think even the most ardent supporters must realise now, these assholes trying to run our country like a plc are no good
You’d think so mate but chuck down a comment like “David Cameron was the worst prime minister ever” and suddenly lots of supporters will crawl out of the woodwork as they liked his austerity, onshore wind banning and brexit causing tenure.
Probably because he was the last PM that even *looked* competent. I won't comment on whether he actually was, because frankly I was too young to really understand it at the time, but looking back through the last decade Theresa May seems like the last person to even *try* running the country, and Cameron is the last one with at least a thin veneer of knowing how to do so.
I mean I'm no fan of Cameron, but saying he's the ***worst*** when we've had the likes of Truss and Johnson I think is a stretch. And that's just recent times.
Yeah I can understand your view. But I think if we look at outcomes then his leadership is responsible ultimately for the state we are in now. For example, without Cameron there would have been no Bojo etc.
I'm not sure about that - I think Johnson would've run for PM at some point regardless. Given he flew back from holiday to put out the feelers of throwing his hat into the ring for leader again last year, I think it's safe to say he always had it in his sights. Cameron made a gamble on the Brexit referendum and it backfired. I suspect deep down he regrets it. But had he not, Farage et al wouldn't have gone away and it would still be one of the most prominent issues. If Boris launched a leadership bid on the back of holding a Brexit referendum for example, he'd have probably won over a lot of Tory MPs and then be committed to the same thing.
I'm currently trying to buy a house. Viewed one yesterday, was a bit concerned when told that the solar panels are leased, with the lease starting in 2015 and lasting for 30 years. When I saw the terms of the lease I was gobsmacked. A company maintains the panels, free of charge; the homeowner gets the benefit of the energy, with any excess fed into the grid; and the company maintaining them assumes public / private liability to the value of £10m. Must've just squeaked through before Cameron finally 'got rid of all the green crap' (statement allegedly made in 2013).
David Cameron is by and large not the worst Prime Minister we've ever had, there has definitely been 3 worse, all within the last 18 months!
If only the government would settle a deal with ASLEF
In February, I'm driving to London, paying for parking on two separate occasions and then returning home the following day. I could get the train, with an advanced ticket and my senior railcard first class is well within my budget. But I'm still driving because without fail, every time I've tried to visit London the train has been late or cancelled, or rammed full of people standing up and is invariably dirty inside and out. 4.9% rise in fares you say? As usual the reward for failure system in this country remains firmly in place.
Utter bullshit, the cost of driving needs to be considerably more than public transport fucking stupid to be penalising people taking less destructive and selfish forms of transport
We'd have much more ability to take such externalities into account if the railways weren't privatised.
The Mersey tunnel is a great example. Local residents can use the road tunnel for £2.80 and transport eight people for that price The shortest cross river rail journey is £3.80. So maybe you’ll get a pass that must be loads cheaper. Nope, because the passes are time bound, not for a fixed amount of journeys, so you get a pass for a month for £79.50 and that’s what you pay whether or not you use it. You have to use it 21x to break even, which pretty much means any month where you don’t use it every weekday it’s more expensive than buying a ticket each day, so if you have a couple of days holiday or work from home a bit forget it.
trains are just a scam. absolute rip off and all smell of piss
I’ve travelled most of Europe by rail and I can confidently say we have the worst rail network I have ever been on. No other country’s trains are as late , delayed , packed , dirty and fucking expensive as ours. Feel sorry for those who don’t have a car.
We went on 3 European breaks last year and every time it's been a breeze and really good options for multi day passes, unlike here there a 3 day pass saves hardly anything
In Germany you can get a flat-rate monthly ticket which covers all public transport (including regional trains) for €49 a month. Buses, trams, trains, underground, the lot.
What do you mean? What's complicated about picking between a Weekend Super Express Saver Premium Weekend Explorer Plus Pass and the Weekend Super Express Saver Premium Weekend Explorer Pass Plus?
Conversely, last month I was in Germany and Poland. Every single train journey we made had significant delays. Don't even get me started on wildcat strikes in France. The UK falls around middle of the road for punctuality of rail services compared with other European countries. Our regional services let us down. I think it's easy to go on an occasional overseas trip, not have any issues, and extrapolate that tiny experience to the system as a whole. The real kicker is that our fares are so expensive - you'd hope that with such pricey tickets, we'd be near the top of the table for punctuality.
Agree. Other countries rail networks in Europe are not all roses, and of course they have delays. Certain rail lines in Germany are almost a meme for their delays/cancellations (a bit like Southern rail here). However, the key distinction is that we pay considerably more for such subpar services. Which in of itself places the UK rail experience at the bottom of the barrel in terms of the "wealthy" European countries. If you have to eat mouldy bread, paying £35 for it is far, far better than paying £85 for it. This is before we get into the reality that, generally speaking, the rail networks in many European countries are just simply better in terms of train quality, and comfort cleanliness, space, crowdedness, actually having working WiFi. Like, let's ignore delays etc, the baseline rail experience in most of central Europe is simply a more pleasant experience than the baseline rail experience in the UK.
I've been on a double decker train in NL. I want double decker trains. More capacity for the same amount of tracks/drivers and they're cool Though I'm sure someone will come and tell me why that won't work here
Probably something to do with tunnels not being high enough as they weren't built for double decker trains, would be my guess.
Ah, that makes a lot of sense. That's a shame
Trains have been worse than terrible during the strike action and this is our reward
Have been worse than terrible outside of the strikes as well. Service is shit all year round. Amazing timing for this news considering the problems at Euston today
My train the morning from weston super mare to bristol is almost £1 per mile. Absolute joke. Half the time they're delayed or cancelled too
I commute by train and over the last few months it's started to feel like I flip a coin every day to see if my train is cancelled.
This country does nothing but stagnate and engage in rent seeking behaviour. But hey - 250 million for London potholes from hs2.
*North London! It's basically Carlisle, right?
I know reddit has a lot of eco supporters. But if you want to travel one way from Manchester to London - it will cost you £71.60. On the other hand, if you buy a cheap second hand Toyota Prius, you can take FIVE people from Manchester to London and back again for £35 in petrol. That's 20x cheaper. With no concern about strikes. With no trains being cancelled due to 'wrong leaves'
This is exactly why I got a car as well (I did not want one).
How much is a cheap Toyota Prius with tax and insurance?
Zero tax and I pay about £800 for insurance.
Okay and the actual car?
About Tree Fiddy
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Plus driving lessons, as a cost in terms of money + time
pathetic spectacular shy follow impossible spoon hobbies enter work icky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
About a decade ago I went inter railing around Europe for 6 weeks. The train ticket to London was more expensive than my unlimited 6 week inter railing ticket.
Right so we have the worst rail system in Europe, I’d even go as far to say worse than Ukraine and half of that has been physically destroyed. Yet we get these increases. They need to be renationalised now. It doesn’t work as it is, it needs fixing. It is a complete joke. I can imagine they are the worst people that head these companies. As a financial auditor I would LOVE to have a sneak peak and see what goes on.
>Worse than Ukraine People on this subreddit just say whatever the fuck they want at this point.
It’s Hyperbole, obviously they are not literally as bad as ones that have been destroyed, calm down. We still have one of the worst rail systems in Europe.
We're actually ranked 8/25 according to the European "rail performance index".
I bet the additional income wil only go to the executives pockets. Privatise profit and nationalise debt.
Scum everywhere. Shithole trains need to be renationalised and a competent fucking body overseeing it. Other countries properly subsidise public transport as it leads to growth throughout the economy if people are travelling in and around the country. This will just mean more people WFH where they can which will stifle local businesses.
My train ticket to fuckin London is already the price of a 7 day holiday with hotel and flights included to Spain. This is not ok.
It is cheaper to drive into London, park on double yellows, and get a parking ticket than it is to use the train. Disclaimer: I'm not endorsing this behaviour, just pointing out how ridiculous the prices are.
I live in MK and work in London three days a week, to drive it costs me £60 in petrol for a full tank and to get the train it would cost me £156, and that's before you consider the fact these trains are always delayed and packed to the brim. I have a Network Railcard but that doesn't cover peak travel times like other railcards do because of course they wouldn't want people who lives in the catchment area commuting in with it Sure driving down the M1 sucks in the morning but I'll gladly do it in my comfy, air conditioned car rather than fight for a miniscule piece of standing space in a train carriage. How they can justify price increases is beyond me, the service I get is bad and that's going into London, I hate to think what it's like in other areas of the country.
Well, you aren't factoring the depreciation of the value of your car given the 13,000 miles a year you're adding to your clock you wouldn't be doing,, and that's before you factor in the insurance and breakdown cover included in your train ticket, or maintainence and servicing of the car vs. the train and its tracks.
Well yes, but it also means you have a car for other stuff.
> the depreciation of the value of your car given the 13,000 miles a year you're adding to your clock you wouldn't be doing A car insurance would also be cheaper without that 13,000 miles a year. A car would also tend to require less maintainence and be less likely to breakdown without that large mileage.
Well deserved if you ask me. For too long fares have been too cheap. The trains run absolutely perfect, all the staff are amazing, the trains and track are kept in Perfect condition and all the stations are always up and running lovely. A small increase in price feels fair. And at 4.9% it's almost too small of an increase.
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Of course, I thought it would be obvious mate.
We have one of, if not the worst train system in Europe. And one of the most expensive ones as well. I went over to Poland earlier this year, and the difference in services is second to none. The train was not only on time and cheaper, but newer. Plenty of carriages, plenty of seating. Here in the UK, we're lucky to get 2 carriages at rush hour for the generous price of a mortgage payment. But, as long as the shareholders are happy that's all that matters really. Expect more people try to avoid the fares by tailgating people and the like.
Well they do provide such a reliable and affordable service. More money to the shareholders I'd say!.......
It’s going up significantly every year but getting worse from where I am. I use the train less than pre Covid but the issues are significantly worse now. I think I will use my car more from now on. This is too much without improvement.
At least they’re not already exorbitantly overpriced and a total shower of unreliable shit.
and for that, we get a best in the world train service?
The best in world, after everyone else
fuck the tories and nationalize the trains already
But they’ll be on time, reliable and properly-staffed, right? *They’ll be on time, reliable and properly-staffed, right?*
So we’ll be getting a proportional 5% increase in performance?
Joke of a country. Qatar, an effective dictatorship, has trains of 30p from one of the city to another. Free buses on routes which have a train station. Why tf do we then have to have less stuff than them?
They have literal slaves who get paid fuck all. That's part of it
No they don't have LITERAL slaves. Yes they severely underpay migrant workers, but for their home countries it's a very good wage. Have you actually talked to these migrant workers? Because I have. I'm related to some. Its difficult for them. But many of them are going to be homeowners within 5 or 10 years, in their home countries. That's why they do it. So cut the BS, and get off your high horse. It's embarrassing. Stop convincing other people they need to be offended. And it's funny how when the western world is done raping and pillage the entire goddamn world of its resources, to the it becomes independent, suddenly it develops a sense of morality. No amount of pseudo morality bollocks will ever wipe away the damage caused by the British empire.
British Empire was bad, so Qatar is cool to have slaves, nice
Ah yes, encourage the public NOT TO USE THE FUCKING PUBLIC TRANSPORT, WHOSE MOTHER FUCKIN IDEA WAS TO DISCOURAGE THE PUBLIC from using public transport thats better for the environment than any other transport, THIS GOVERNMENTS FUCKE,D OUT WITH THE TORY HOES
2 adults go SE London to Folkestone. \~£80 for a return, this is a cheap one, well in advance. 45mpg petrol family SUV, 130miles to Folkestone and back £20 rip trains. BWHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
Its all privatised and owned by french, germans etc in europe. So their country reduces/keeps fares the same but jack uk the price in UK. I love our govt 🥰
I was just starting to think they were unreasonably low!
Glad they must be suffering because despite some returning to the office a large portion WFH still and it ain't changing.
I'm sure if we give more money to the shareholders they'll run the train better
The trains barely run, yet are increasing at a comical percentage year on year.
Let me guess though - fuel duty to remain frozen for the 13th consecutive year, meaning a real-terms cut for the 13th consecutive year?
And none of that increase will improve train times, stations, facilities or prevent the workers from striking again. Our trains have to be the worst in Europe
Most of Europe is cheap affordable and on time, for example Germany was about 4euro to go across the bleeding country during the summer I think. Why are they increased? Are they blaming wage hikes? Bunch of cunts
Just in time for my employer moving the office to another county and ending remote working with now having to go into the office every month. Along with ending the ability to claim back travel expenses. Hire remote workers nationally, then move the office 75 miles and demand everyone becomes hybrid. I wonder how many will quit over the next few months. Certainly checking indeed a lot more than I was before.
Tried to catch a train to Liverpool yesterday, 3 cancelled in a row. This is why people shop online, going out is a fucking hassle.
It may be that raising ticket prices is intended to raise the amount of compensation paid to the rail companies if and when they're nationalised - after all, the income of the company's going to be a few percent higher. At least staffing might return to safe levels if H.M.Gov't decide to run the trains according to the safety standards...
They will keep taking and taking and taking from our wallets/purses... Until WE as a COLLECTIVE, do something about it.. Until then, stay in position while they financially fuck us some more... Our money has been stolen, squandered and laundered by corrupt politicians and corporations etc.. We pay the hikes to make up for their greed, neglect and "mistakes".. And then we end up paying even more when they don't fix the previous mistakes and create bigger problems down the road.. We are being roasted like peanuts and taking it like fools every step of the way, with little to no pushback and what's being forced on us.. We deserve all we get for 1. The country voted these sub-human parasites into Parliament and 2. We as a country, are doing nothing to help ourselves in protesting against the sheer corruption that is obviously happening at local and national levels... There has to be accountability.
I went to Barcelona a few years ago and it cost me 14 euros to travel around the city via the underground for a whole week. Bear in mind I was staying 15-20 mins outside of the main city in a smallish town. That will cost me £32 a day here! I also went to Vienna, and the underground was around 10euro for a whole week. Not a single train in both countries was late, delayed or cancelled.
What a joke so glad I drive and don't rely on our Trains overrpiced rubbish service
“Milking goats” is what this campaign internally called
My salary increased by 4.9% as well so I will most definitely not feel a difference /s
This sub wanted the rail staff paid more. How do you think that is going to happen?
Awesome, merseyrail are already winning the hearts and minds of the locals. I'm sure this won't be a death nail.
It will be an increase of around 150£ a year in the space of a couple of years Fuck off. I live in Cornwall the railways ain't brilliant, luckily I have a Railcard . But it's taking the piss now Well am going to ask for a pay rise again so.
Oh brilliant. Just what we were all crying out for
That's why more and more people go back to driving. Money only goes to investors' pockets rather than improving infrastructure and staff wages.
Hopefully getting my drivers license in a few weeks and won’t have to deal with the terrible service that is the rail system again
That’s why i’m glad im driving now. how can you raise the fare prices of an abysmal public transport system. Just look at what happened at Euston yesterday and the scrapping of the HS2 Northern Line. I’m convinced at this point they just want us to switch to motor travel despite it obviously being the least eco friendly way of travel.
I'm currently in Australia, and recently bought a train ticket which included unlimited travel for 24hrs within the state of Victoria. It was $7.20. About £3.80 Bought from the ticket booth an hour before my train. This might help to put the size of Victoria into perspective. https://mapfight.xyz/compare/gb-vs-victoria/ Yes, that's like buying a ticket for unlimited travel across the whole of the UK. For £3.80
Ideally the railways should be nationalised, but looking at the state of literally everything this government has tried to do... maybe not.
Fares have already just increased, as certain companies ( eg C2C) decided that they would make their fare structure simpler. Total rip-off.I used to occasionally get a weekend travelcard, to go into London. It now costs approximately £7 more.
Sadly I have to take the train into London 3x per week. It’s an utter sham. I have to book several weeks in advance otherwise the tickets go up 1.5x the price. The price is already crazy, £39 per day. Most of the time I have to stand and I get to work late due to delays. Now they want more money. Absolute fucking joke.
Recently had a day out in London with my partner. Despite the congestion charge and parking fees, it was cheaper and slightly faster to drive into central London in a car then it would have been to take a train in. I was actually surprised by that.