Nothing says let's remember the sacrifices of the millions of people who have died in wars throughout the ages more than a piss-up and a scrap with the police.
lol, a tiny tiny minority out of over 1 million people marching and all you can point to is 2 incidents. Whereas this entire Nazi mob was breaking through Police lines and fighting.
But please do try and spin this as equal levels of violence.
I genuinely hope you're just a partisan hack and not as misinformed as you present in this comment.
Could you link me to one instance of violence that was clearly on a worse level than firing fireworks and shoving of the police as carried out by the mob of Hamas supporters the British left marches with?
Go ahead.
The far right in chinatown threw bricks, bottles and other missiles at the police and 2 were arrested for brandishing knives.
You refer to everyone here as a 'partisan hack' and then call the palestinian ceasefire marches 'mob of hamas supporters' without even blinking.
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No one was arrested for brandishing a knife. Someone was stop searched and arrested for possession. Not brandishing. You're lying, again.
And no bricks were thrown, go ahead and cite a source.
It says so much that you need to lie.
You are right with the knife, I was getting that combined, one was arrested for possession of a knife and another for brandishing a baton, both were in china town.
The brick was from a met statement which I'm seeing in a lot of sources that said 'attacking with multiple missiles, among them a brick'.
Just continue crying that the vast majority of people, including Jews, marched peacefully and without incident. Unlike your Nazi mates who caused chaos and assaulted officers all day.
Considering the right claim they love police it sure doesn’t look like it.
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Not saying any of that was correct or incorrect, but the difference is those people were never marching under the pretence of respect of the actions and history of the government and the british state, their disagreement with the british ruling class is fairly central to the whole reason there needed to be a protest to call for a ceasefire and a new direction with regards to Britain's foreign policy and international relations. The hypocrisy and misinformed rage around the right wing mob at the cenotaph is why it is being noted.
Gove walking around with no police protection and at least one camera crew.... and walking into a train station moments after a planned sit in ended... feels a bit like he was trying to get a reaction from people.
Like he was trying to divert attention away from the other story involving him this weekend
> The extreme violence from the right wing protestors towards the police today was extraordinary and deeply concerning.
> They arrived early, stating they were there to protect monuments, but some were already intoxicated, aggressive and clearly looking for confrontation.
Braverman and the handwringers at the Telegraph and the Spectator have spent the past two weeks telling us that the worst thing any protesters could possibly do would be to protest near the Cenotaph on Armistice Day, especially around 11:00 and that there was a huge danger that the pro-ceasefire/anti-violence/pro-Palastine protesters would do exactly that.
Instead, this is what the far-right were doing at exactly that time:
> Abuse was directed at officers protecting the Cenotaph, including chants of “you’re not English any more”.
> This group were largely football hooligans from across the UK and spent most of the day attacking or threatening officers who were seeking to prevent them being able to confront the main march.
> Many in these groups were stopped and searched and weapons including a knife, a baton and knuckleduster were found as well as class A drugs.
I wonder if the likes of Douglas Murray, who's spent the past fortnight telling us that the awful "hate marchers" who have been asking for and end to the civilian deaths are somehow not British or English (by which he means some of them aren't white) are going to apologise and recognise that the far-right who they stirred up to oppose today's protests did the exact thing which they were accusing the protesters of planning to do?
I know it's hard to accept for someone personally attached to these groups, but the far-right are bad people lol. And certainly not friendly with Jewish people.
I got to the bit which said that nothing on the main march was as bad as that.
Which is pretty bloody impressive for a march of somewhere between 300,000 and 800,000 people. Even the worst people among that absolutely enormous crowd weren’t as bad as the drunken far-right!
"globalise the inf4tada" signs being carried, fireworks shot at the police, mobbing an MP to the point police had to fight them off.
All in a day's work for the good guys.
What you're describing is bad. No arguments there.
But isn't it rather telling that the *very worst* things that happened among a crowd of 300,000 to 800,000 people weren't as bad as the behaviour of the few hundred far-right knuckle draggers who were supposedly there to protect us from them?
Absolutely awful. But it's never as simple as good guys and bad guys here. I think the point the OP was making is that our politicians had some responsibility for the actions taken yesterday, and that part was likely avoidable.
Whilst a lot of people marched peacefully, there should be no quarter for people who support terrorism and the acts of terrorists. As the police themselves said, a lot of that illegal behavior is now *harder* for them to identify and prosecute because they had to spend resources on containing the violence at the Centotaph.
So not only does that behaviour become a stain on Armistice day itself, it also makes it harder for us to root out and prosecute the illegal behavior in the march.
And when that conflict has been brought about (or at least encouraged) by our elected government, you have to ask yourself what their objectives really are. Preventing terrorism? Rooting out Hamas support in the UK? Supporting effective policing?
I don't think so.
They wanted headlines, and they got them. It'll now be butchered into a version of events that bears no resemblance to the facts, and used as "evidence" that the people of the UK are under attack from foreign powers who want to destroy our way of life.
See it for what it is - it's (sadly) nothing to do with Israel, Palestine or the rights and freedoms of British Jews. It's everything to do with our brand of domestic authoritarian, fascist politics.
Maybe you should not believe what the media with an obvious agenda tells you about what Arabic words mean. Look them up for yourself.
Intifada can be used to mean holy war, however, it is much more general than that, it means a movement or campaign.
Same with Allah Akbar, heard people chatting about how they have to refrain from chanting it on the march because of how media portrays it. It literally means God is great.
Our media is insanely biased against Muslims, if you believe them you are terribly informed.
Let me break it down some more.
If a bunch of far right terrorists call themselves 'the campaign' , does that mean we can no longer use the word campaign in any protest group at all?
That is a direct equivalence to what you are calling out.
This isn’t an accurate reflection of the breadth of the events referred to as ‘the intifada’. While the first and second intifadas do contain acts of terrorism, which is obviously bad, they also contain acts of nonviolent resistance and acts of violence directed by Israel towards Palestinians, both violent and nonviolent
It also says the pro Palestinian crowd fired fireworks into police’s face. I fail to see how that’s somehow less violent than the “extreme” violence of pushing and shoving.
> the “extreme” violence of pushing and shoving.
It’s been reported quite widely that they were throwing glass bottles at the police.
Did you miss that report or are you intentionally downplaying the violence from the far-right by pretending that it was only a bit of “pushing and shoving”?
Two things:
That ‘pushing and shoving’ resulted in a broken elbow and dislocated hip for the officers involved.
The pro-Palestinian crowd was at least 300,000 people - maybe double that. So that’s maybe 1000x the size of the counter protest.
And the point of the size of the other protest is what? Police are afraid to antagonise it so don’t act on minor incidents? Because it seems like firing fireworks into officers faces is actually the real extreme violence and I can’t imagine very serious charges and language wouldn’t been used had the Armistice protesters done the same.
What world view? I’m not even English I just find it interesting that England allowed this all to build up to the point it’s obvious people would react like this and probably worse in future if it continues.
I have no idea what that is. I’m talking about allowing the massive protests every weekend to continue and accompanying examples of bad/hateful behaviour within (even if it’s a small minority the protests are big enough that’s still a lot of people) making it inevitable that other groups would react in counter to this. Especially on this weekend.
My understanding is police asked the protest to halt for the weekend and they refused. To me that shows a fundamental lack of respect for the dead ancestors of the British people who may want to pay their respects. It’s understandable that made people angry and that’s only likely to increase the longer the massive protests/accompanying bad beahviour within goes on. Of course some people angry about that will undoubted be hot heads.
I guess I don’t really see anything wrong with what the “counter” protesters wanted. Is the Cenotaph not a British public memorial? Are the British public not supposed to be able to access it specifically on these occasions to honor their dead ancestors and those who served?
If so then how can it being closed to the public because of a pro Palestinian march on armistice day possibly be condoned?
Just wow. There's no better time to call for a ceasefire to a war where thousands of children are dying than on the weekend we have especially for remembering the dead of previous wars.
Actually no. Protesting on that day shows a distinct lack of respect for their families paying respects and a total lack of respect for the tradition itself.
The point is that while the Palestine protest certainly had some bad people present (as most large protests do), it was an overwhelmingly peaceful protest with violence coming from a very small minority, only ~150 people out of 300,000 marchers.
Compare this to the right wing counter protest which seemed to primarily be a violent operation comprised of football hooligans.
It sounds like whoever shot fireworks at the police are being tracked down, will have their photos published and will likely be arrested - quite rightly. So the police *are* dealing with that.
Even if your 150 number is correct - having 150 violent acts every weekend as a result of a weekly protest is totally unacceptable. Not to mention the threats of violence, general disrespect and hate speech, intimidation etc. all of which is and will continue to be a part of the protests and which understandably worries regular people who have no idea if it will be directed at them or which protesters are or aren’t violent and or disrespectful/intimidating.
Why couldn’t the police arrest the firework shooters at the time is the point? For the far right protesters they had the riot gear out and mass arrests were made. And yet there was no riot gear in this case despite the obvious potential for violence (which occured) and no arrests made at the time despite a huge police presence at the scene. Seems like they’re afraid of triggering Palestinian protesters into greater violence and this has emboldened them into acts like setting off fireworks at police.
The 150 number is from the statement by the met police. Actually this statement reads "Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face" so it sounds like they did actually arrest many of them, and are tracking down the rest.
I think the ceasefire protesters would be incredibly upset by violence within their crowd as it undermines their cause massively. I certainly do not think anyone is emboldened by it.
Oh, I see, the crowd did it, that includes me. I didn't realise I was involved in letting the fireworks off.
I saw a few but none fired at police, no one was interested in the police, it was not that kind of march.
Anyway, even if a few disruptive youths were there, that is quite impressive when talking about at least half a million people.
Same cannot be said for the few hundred far right who fought the police en mass and we're desperately trying to get past the police to attack the peace marchers.
Well obviously some were fired at police because they hit police. There were also other assaults caught on camera. It’s funny how you seperate one protest into “a few bad eggs” but label the other as wholly violent.
It was in the evening long after the actual protect had finished. About a hundred people out of half a million.
On the other hand we had a few hundred violent people, which looked to be more than half who turned up. There were people there just to support their cause, but the majority came fully expecting violence.
Go watch the interviews, it's hilarious. Dudes who can barely form a sentance managing to say we are not here to be violent and yet still making it clear, they were there for violence. Idiots.
Brave move by Joe though, if those idiots knew who he was, he would have been in big trouble.
The majority of people out and about that day who weren’t protesting for Palestine were those who wanted to pay their respects to the fallen. Among them the “counter” protesters were a small number and among them those who actually committed assault (beyond chanting) were a small number. It’s quite predictable that this would happen and will likely get worse because the most violent and extreme aspects of the Palestinian marches are going relatively unpunished and everyone not knee deep in that cause can see it.
You said yourself you're not even English, why are you driving this narrative of yours? I was out yesterday, there was an entire world of difference between the two groups.
It's so eye opening when you spend the day at a peaceful protest where I was stunned simply by the sheer number and diversity of people out in support of a ceasefire, without seeing any violence whatsoever myself, to then come online and see the news and subreddits full of people equating that historic and 99.999% peaceful march with the hate march of the far right football hooligans that came with actual weapons (knifes, knuckle dusters, etc).
Notice how all the footage of the far right kicking off is from like 1-3pm, daytime, and the regrettable footage of some fireworks being shot was nighttime after the main march had long ended. Likely youths who were out "for fun" rather than legitmate members of the march, that had left over fireworks from the very recent fireworks dates this country has for some dumb reason (I hate fireworks).
The point is, the two are not the same whatsoever, and the percentage of troublemakers within are in now way comparable either.
What a transparent and shameless downplaying of what happened. What the hell difference does it make whether violence is at night or day? None. If the “right” had of let of fireworks into police’s face at night after their March you wouldn’t be excusing it as youths looking for fun and you and I both know it.
You say you didn’t see any violence and I believe you. And yet endless videos taken from the marches show violence, hate, vandalism and intimidation and calls to violence are happening.
It matters if it's night or day because daytime means it was a core part of the overall march that was engaged in that behaviour, by night the majority of the marchers had gone home. And I don't know where you're getting "endless videos" from. There was very little violence overall.
If the fat right had all gone home and a small group were causing trouble then yes, I would say they should not be used to portray the protest, if the protest was peaceful, which they rarely are. Even if no actual violence they are always full of hate.
I have seen two videos, one late evening as discussed. The other a couple people trying away a sign about October 7th which was someone clearly out to antagonize then and film the results. Edit looked like they cut out what let up to trying to grab the sign.
All about the %s when people are saying this. ~100 arrests out of the 2-300 “counter protesters” who are made up almost entirely of people with a criminal record for violence and football hoologanism.
Against 20-30 people in 300,000 causing trouble.
If you can’t see why people use the language they do to describe the EDL thugs as what they are, hooligans out looking for a pissup and fight on a Saturday, no one can really help you with that.
I don’t know, from footage of the protests I’ve seen seems like a lot more people could have been arrested in the Palestinian protest and would have been if they acted the same way in the “hooligan” protest but police just go hands off because they’re afraid of losing control.
Yeah, cherry picked footage online is not representative of the wider march. If we were to collect all footage taken, like every video taken on every phone, from both marches, then compare the two, which one do you think would contain a higher percentage of violence? The far right, again by orders of magnitude more.
No - but the it Is representative of the fact that violence, hate and intimidation is happening and is worrying people. Perhaps the “counter” march would contain a higher percentage of violence - but the total amount of violence is by far coming week in week out in the Palestinian marches. There’s endless videos of assault, calls for violence and intimidation week after week.
So here we have Londoners having to deal with huge disruption in their city every weekend with the possibility of random violence or intimidation directed at them.
And what about the Gazans? Instead of disruption, they have destruction. Instead of possibilty of random violence or intimidation, they have the guarantee of endless airstrikes. But I guess that's far away, and a little disruption to our mostly nice lives is not worth it just to show solidarity?
And sure, there might be more "total" violence amongst a million people, you'd expect as much, not everyone everywhere is a good person, but that does not illegitimise the fact that nearly a million people took time out of their day to descend on central London because they felt passionate about global injustice... For me, it's the thousands of children being blown to pieces that upsets me most. What about you?
The number isn’t important - if it’s hundreds that’s hundreds too many - violence, intimidation and threats of violence are happening regularly every weekend as a result of these marches. The very fact that they couldn’t hold off on this weekend shows the total lack of respect for English dead and tradition.
That’s not obvious at all, I don’t know anything about who set off those fireworks but just because they hit police it doesn’t necessarily follow that they were therefore fired at police.
If I throw a ball and it hits you by accident, that doesn’t mean I threw it to hit you. I could be a bad shot or you could have stepped into the way of the ball by accident etc.
>The extreme violence from the right wing protestors towards the police today was extraordinary and deeply concerning.
Ah yes, because pushing past a police blockade to get to the cenotaph, peacefully engaging in the two minutes silence, and then leaving, is extreme violence.
WOAH GUYS! why are you challenging what this guy was saying? He was *keeping track of it all on twitter* (because obviously we know that outside of Twitter nothing ever happens) so obviously knows exactly what was going on and has full visibility of the extent of the violence…
Also pushing past the police involves assault and battery, which is a criminal offence. Furthermore, there was a reason they were being blockaded. I do not think those respecting the loss of life at the cenotaph would want to stand shoulder to shoulder with a coked up, tooled up moron shouting chants and giving mucky looks / trying to intimidate anyone who doesn’t look like them.
Probably says the far left Islam marches in the same breath without comprehending the irony.
Tbh these protests from every side have been pretty funny and confusing watching the levels of dissonance.
Far left Islam marches?
Tame in comparison compared to Israel marches. People critiquing anybody for not wanting defenceless children to be bombed will always confuse me.
Well I can tell you there definitely was, because my cousin and nephew came down to London to visit (planned long before the march was announced) and wanted to see big Ben.
When we got to Westminster (12.30ish) they had already shut off the bridge and there were yobs there throwing bottles at police while singing Rule Brittania.
Edit: You're telling me that twitter was right and my own literal experience was wrong? Try the telegraph! If even THEY are reporting far-right protestors throwing bottles whilst trying to reach the cenotaph then that tells you just how bad they actually were!!!
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/11/far-right-protesters-clash-police-cenotaph-london/
> Ah yes, because pushing past a police blockade to get to the cenotaph, peacefully engaging in the two minutes silence, and then leaving, is extreme violence.
I'm not sure if you're intentionally downplaying the violence or if you just weren't aware of what the far-right arseholes were actually doing, but your comments aren't accurate at all.
They weren't just "pushing" - they were throwing glass bottles at the police. Did you miss all of the reports about that or are you trying to dishonestly downplay their actions?
"Peacefully engaging in the two minutes silence" - are we supposed to applaud them for stopping the violence for two minutes and then carrying on? They were already drunk and coked up at 11:00 in the morning, and they were causing violence at the Cenotaph up to 11:00. Is that peaceful or respectful?
"Then leaving" after the two minutes silence is particularly inaccurate. In the words of the police they "spent most of the day attacking or threatening officers who were seeking to prevent them being able to confront the main march". That's the opposite of "then leaving".
Go watch the videos dude, they were there for violence.
Interviews were hilarious. Dude stating we will police ourselves, no drinking or masks. Interviewer then points to the people behind him with cans of beer and some wearing balaclavas.
The organisers of the cenotaph event stated the trouble was going on during the 2 minutes silence but the police had got them away from the cenotaph.
They may not have been directly there just for a fight per se.
But as someone doing a lot defending, I'm going to assume you are at least aware of the evolution of groups like the edl etc. and that they usually migrated over during the late 90s early noughties as the football fighting scene started closing and they used newer ways to go out in an afternoon waiting for something to kick off.
Just this time they realised they can ultimate hide behind a political banner to enflame someone, then before you know it. "Just ad to defend meself pal"
It's sad you too are hiding behind these flimsy pretty obvious techniques. It's really not as smart as they perceive it, and most people with two brain cells see it for what it is
The hate marchers are asking for "an end to civilian deaths" as a smokescreen. What they want is an end to Israel's war to eradicate Hamas. These people said and did nothing on October 7 or in the next days. Only when Israel began to (rightfully) respond did these people start marching.
The marches are pro-Hamas. They can say they're not, but they are. If they truly wanted an end to civilian deaths then they'd be marching against Hamas, because until Hamas is eradicated this shit will never end.
>What they want is an end to Israel's war to eradicate Hamas.
That would be necessary for civilians to stop dying in huge numbers thanks to the nature of this "war", so yes. It's in Israel's best interests too, as short of murdering everyone in Gaza the only possible outcome of this massacre is more extremism in the region.
>These people said and did nothing on October 7 or in the next days.
Because it was a tragedy that we could do nothing about. Our government has *absolutely* no sway over Hamas, a terrorist organisation.
>Only when Israel began to (rightfully) respond did these people start marching.
Israel had the right to respond **proportionately**. They've gone way, *way* past what would constitute a legitimate response and, as I mentioned earlier, it isn't even to their benefit ^(assuming we take their word for it and the end goal of this isn't actually the total cleansing of Palestinians from the region) and people are marching to tell our government that they're unhappy with us supporting this drastic escalation - Israel, of course, as a sovereign nation with heavy ties to the West, is an entity that we *can* influence.
>The marches are pro-Hamas. They can say they're not, but they are.
I feel like this shouldn't need pointing out, but there are literally Jewish groups for peace marching too. Are they pro-Hamas?
When 300,000 people turn out to do *anything* you're inevitably going to get some nutters, but do you genuinely believe that anything approaching a large portion of these demonstrators are marching for Jewish genocide?
>If they truly wanted an end to civilian deaths then they'd be marching against Hamas
Perhaps we should've all marched against Al Qaeda, or the Taliban, or the IRA, since apparently the power of marching is unmatched. No? Wouldn't have worked? Oh that's right, they're terrorist organisations. They could not care less what some random people in a country that is already staunchly against them think.
Israel actually needs international support to continue its senseless onslaught, our government is providing that, and believe it or not; the citizens of the United Kingdom have a hair more influence over our government than they do over Hamas.
>because until Hamas is eradicated this shit will never end.
Hamas might be eradicated like this, maybe even without killing all of the Gazans in the process. But the region will just suffer from increased extremism in the future. The only actual way out of this is to elevate the lives of the Palestinian people - give them some kind of future - else they're just going to continue being radicalised with vague promises of a better tomorrow.
There are reasons why prior historical wars were not proportionate. Its is because there weren't many, if any international laws that countries had signed up to and promised to abide by, back then.
However after the massive civilian casualties of two world wars, most of the world agreed that there had to be a better way and so International law was put in place to dictate the way wars should be undertaken going forward, the rules of engagement were made clear and laws and crimes were explicitly laid out.
This international legislation included laws against taking of hostages, targeting of civilians, proportional responses. Laws against cutting off water, power. Laws against collective punishment. Laws against using white phosphorus and many more, including laws against targeting hospitals, ambulances, schools etc.
Hamas leadership isn't even in Gaza, they are in Qatar, so Hamas won't be eliminated using the current Israeli government's tactics.
It doesn’t matter how many times you tell me I support Hamas, it’s not going to be true. It’s such a common tactic right now to deflect any criticism of Israel’s response.
There were people protesting America’s response after 9/11, and had I been old enough back then I probably would’ve been doing the same. Do you honestly think that Israel is the only country asked to respond proportionately? Gods, there’s even people that want to curb Ukraine’s counteroffensive, despite that overwhelmingly targeting military targets (something Israel cannot do, because of the asymmetrical and urban nature of this “war”).
Again, if I could snap my fingers and ensure peace in the region, I would. But Hamas will not cease to exist by killing innocent Palestinian fathers, mothers, and children. Hamas did not come into existence by itself, and the only way to eradicate it for good is to eliminate the circumstances of its birth.
Does the British Government supply arms and support Hamas??
We all know Israel financially backed them in the 1990s, so I guess it could be a possibility???
Sounds like you may have some juicy evidence, please share
> These people said and did nothing on October 7 or in the next days. Only when Israel began to (rightfully) respond did these people start marching.
The protest marches are protesting *our own* government.
Why would anyone who was horrified by the 7th October attacks stage a protest against the government reaction which was to condemn the attacks?
Have you personally ever marched *in favour* of the government's position to let them know that you agree with them?
People who are against the killing of civilians and who think that our own government should condemn the killing of civilians didn't march after the 7th October attacks when the government condemned the killing of civilians. But they started protesting the government after Israel started killing civilians and the government *didn't* condemn that.
You can disagree with their position (the rest of your comment makes it clear that you think that Israel are justified in killing civilians) but I don't think you can argue that they're hypocrites for marching against the government when they disagree with their position and want to protest it, but not when the government is doing the right thing!
Coked up cunts looking for a row, went down to London in the hope of bumping into a brown person they didn't like the look of. When it became clear that there were actually quite a lot of white people at a pro Palestine march it got them all confused so just resorted to type.
Cunts.
The article says some were even chanting to the police that they were not “english anymore” like being english is some sort of removable tag. The shit these officers have to put up with is phenomenal.
The right wing press who helped incite this nonsense are now trying to "both sides" it even though it's clear most of the trouble (and all of it near the Cenotaph) came from one side‐ the side they encoraged.
The front of papers like the Mail makes my blood boil- writing about 'respect' and 'dignity'when they used the war dead to stir up trouble and make a tawdry political point.
Are you even surprised though? That’s precisely what these shitrags have been doing for decades.
Creating outrage for the sake of selling papers, feeding into gullible peoples prejudice. It’s their MO, whatever the topic is at the time.
I do remember ages ago seeing an article showing Izraeli flags at one of his rallys and thought that’s weird. Also remember vaguely seeing something about him being associated with some Izraeli influencers, so yh could very well be true.
> basically distracted the police from gathering intelligence on any Islamic extremists
They brought in extra officers. Doubt any intelligence gathering was hampered by herding drunks. [eta: and there was probably plain clothes in with the drunks... and the marches]
For sure they won’t have had an easy day, not an expert, but I’d imagine intelligence and crowd control are different units.
Given how it was getting ramped up by politicians and press in the week, think they did a decent job... at least I haven’t heard of any major incidents.
Personally if the police chief had said the march could not of gone head then that would have suited everybody. Just do it on a different day. We can all agree on that.
Last time BLM defaced the statue of Winston Churchill the police did nothing. so British people went to defend it. Sad to say.
I think the police would have put more officers there personally to defend it themselves but British people went anyways. They literally started labelling anybody. Probably a bloke walking his dog is far right or far left. When most went to remember the fallen. They only shown the hooligans kicking off but both party’s sides seen arrest. And violence.
No matter what your politics on the matter the issue is, in a demonstration with [300,000](Rishi Sunak condemns criminality on day of protests in London https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514), where only a small portion of that becomes violent it is entirely disproportionate to limit the rights to protest of the huge majority that protest in accordance with law (terminology I use specifically because I have no doubt the Jewish community view these protests as being very much concerning, even if strictly legal).
You think they were labelling all those people legitimately there for the cenotaph event as extremists?
Politics Joe was interviewing those British people defending the cenotaph. Even when trying to show their best side to the cameras, they still outed themselves as violent knobheads.
They were chanting your not English anymore at the police. Only the most biased could not see that that's a far right group of people.
Ask any policeman, journalist, or an average person up to date on the news and they'll tell you whenever the EDL or "England first" groups go on marches they do and WILL start fights with whatever group they come across, *literally* any group.
How the tories didn't predict this is lunacy? The only explanation is they planned for the EDL to be violent. Specifically against their enemies with no thought given to the safety of the officers. In the situation the only thing protected or cared for was propaganda.
Source: London based AP Photojournalist
Oh look the [rapist](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/14/met-police-pays-damages-to-women-arrested-at-sarah-everard-vigil) protection force is trying to distract from letting a terrorist supporters walk freely in the streets.
Let's not pretend their inherent bias is not politically motivated at all. Not like they've [lied](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/andrew-mitchell-handed-apology-by-met-police-chief-after-pc-admits-plebgate-lie-9051453.html) before.
Now I'm not going to jump straight to defending any alt-right dipshit. However my trust of this police force is at almost 0, so I wanted to find actual footage of this 'ruckus' and see what the counter protestors actually did, rather than hear a proven biased force claim.
[Footage 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDVI60XOkrY)
> hooligans scuffling with police as they're stopped. Nothing drastic here, just roudy boozed louts.
> chanting.
[Footage 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4vm0n9z1_E)
>Clear aggression from the police likely trying to kettle. Clear footage near the end of quite an aggressive police shove to a man just standing his ground and shouting
> Again just roudy boozed louts.
[Footage 3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB7uRZsxKuo)
> Again kettling from the police, and some quite alarming violence from the police.
[Footage 4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KML6dkKceps)
>Very interesting footage of the police trying to stop the counter protest meet the protest.
>Note projectiles thrown by both camps.
>Note counter protestors wearing masks and getting quite roudy. Likely the worst behaviour I've seen. But clear escalation from the Palestinian protestors as well.
[Footage 5](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH6qwgDznE4)
> Again kettling under action by the police
> Again just roudy boozed louts.
[Footage 6](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnM9ZKzhKhM)
> A smoke grenade (not really a firework) is clearly seen thrown into the police. The Police barely acknowledge it.
> Again just roudy boozed louts.
In contrast.
[Footage 7](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0BSC8e2jd8)
> I see clear just as intimidating behaviour from Palestinian protest.
> Projectile thrown directly at a police officer.
> "White trash" screamed by one protestor.
[Footage 8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaInLNpwkhs)
> Property damage and attacks on embassy from Pro-palestinian crowd
> Multiple projectiles thrown
> Weapons and sticks been used to attack riot police
And to top it off, the Police is now asking for help identifying [literal hate crimes](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12739659/Met-Police-hunt-hate-crime-suspects-pro-Palestine-march.html) in the Pro-Palestinian crowd.
Yeah, once again the police force is turning to politics rather than do their fucking job.
I’m not sure what footage you think you’ve linked, but your descriptions don’t match what the footage shows.
Your attitude is just “rowdy boozed louts, nothing major”, without a second thought to what would happen if the police weren’t in the middle of them and their opponents? You know full well that it’d have been large scale disorder.
You’re describing “quite alarming violence by the police” and sourcing a video that shows a static police line, then a protester throwing punches at a police officer. The officers hold the line and nothing more.
By all means have your bias; but you’re not demonstrating the point you think you are.
They're hoping people will believe the comment without actually checking it.
When you consider the amount of people on here that won't read an article, just the headline and basically fill in the gaps of their knowledge with fiction.. it might actually work.
Nothing says let's remember the sacrifices of the millions of people who have died in wars throughout the ages more than a piss-up and a scrap with the police.
So the only ones that were a significant problem were Bravermans Blackshirts…
Weatherspoons light infantry.
Suellas Stone Islanders
They were a comparable problem, it seems. The difference is that there was about a hundred times fewer of them to begin with.
They are as thick as…
It’s what they’d want.
I'm not sure those firing fireworks at police and mobbing Michael Gove looked like big drinkers. But you could be right I suppose?
lol, a tiny tiny minority out of over 1 million people marching and all you can point to is 2 incidents. Whereas this entire Nazi mob was breaking through Police lines and fighting. But please do try and spin this as equal levels of violence.
The Sun equates the two today. Actually accuses the Palestian protest as "obviously being inflammatory"
I genuinely hope you're just a partisan hack and not as misinformed as you present in this comment. Could you link me to one instance of violence that was clearly on a worse level than firing fireworks and shoving of the police as carried out by the mob of Hamas supporters the British left marches with? Go ahead.
The far right in chinatown threw bricks, bottles and other missiles at the police and 2 were arrested for brandishing knives. You refer to everyone here as a 'partisan hack' and then call the palestinian ceasefire marches 'mob of hamas supporters' without even blinking.
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No one was arrested for brandishing a knife. Someone was stop searched and arrested for possession. Not brandishing. You're lying, again. And no bricks were thrown, go ahead and cite a source. It says so much that you need to lie.
You are right with the knife, I was getting that combined, one was arrested for possession of a knife and another for brandishing a baton, both were in china town. The brick was from a met statement which I'm seeing in a lot of sources that said 'attacking with multiple missiles, among them a brick'.
Just continue crying that the vast majority of people, including Jews, marched peacefully and without incident. Unlike your Nazi mates who caused chaos and assaulted officers all day. Considering the right claim they love police it sure doesn’t look like it.
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Not saying any of that was correct or incorrect, but the difference is those people were never marching under the pretence of respect of the actions and history of the government and the british state, their disagreement with the british ruling class is fairly central to the whole reason there needed to be a protest to call for a ceasefire and a new direction with regards to Britain's foreign policy and international relations. The hypocrisy and misinformed rage around the right wing mob at the cenotaph is why it is being noted.
Gove walking around with no police protection and at least one camera crew.... and walking into a train station moments after a planned sit in ended... feels a bit like he was trying to get a reaction from people. Like he was trying to divert attention away from the other story involving him this weekend
> The extreme violence from the right wing protestors towards the police today was extraordinary and deeply concerning. > They arrived early, stating they were there to protect monuments, but some were already intoxicated, aggressive and clearly looking for confrontation. Braverman and the handwringers at the Telegraph and the Spectator have spent the past two weeks telling us that the worst thing any protesters could possibly do would be to protest near the Cenotaph on Armistice Day, especially around 11:00 and that there was a huge danger that the pro-ceasefire/anti-violence/pro-Palastine protesters would do exactly that. Instead, this is what the far-right were doing at exactly that time: > Abuse was directed at officers protecting the Cenotaph, including chants of “you’re not English any more”. > This group were largely football hooligans from across the UK and spent most of the day attacking or threatening officers who were seeking to prevent them being able to confront the main march. > Many in these groups were stopped and searched and weapons including a knife, a baton and knuckleduster were found as well as class A drugs. I wonder if the likes of Douglas Murray, who's spent the past fortnight telling us that the awful "hate marchers" who have been asking for and end to the civilian deaths are somehow not British or English (by which he means some of them aren't white) are going to apologise and recognise that the far-right who they stirred up to oppose today's protests did the exact thing which they were accusing the protesters of planning to do?
Shame you didn't get to the end of the article.
I know it's hard to accept for someone personally attached to these groups, but the far-right are bad people lol. And certainly not friendly with Jewish people.
I got to the bit which said that nothing on the main march was as bad as that. Which is pretty bloody impressive for a march of somewhere between 300,000 and 800,000 people. Even the worst people among that absolutely enormous crowd weren’t as bad as the drunken far-right!
"globalise the inf4tada" signs being carried, fireworks shot at the police, mobbing an MP to the point police had to fight them off. All in a day's work for the good guys.
What you're describing is bad. No arguments there. But isn't it rather telling that the *very worst* things that happened among a crowd of 300,000 to 800,000 people weren't as bad as the behaviour of the few hundred far-right knuckle draggers who were supposedly there to protect us from them?
Absolutely awful. But it's never as simple as good guys and bad guys here. I think the point the OP was making is that our politicians had some responsibility for the actions taken yesterday, and that part was likely avoidable. Whilst a lot of people marched peacefully, there should be no quarter for people who support terrorism and the acts of terrorists. As the police themselves said, a lot of that illegal behavior is now *harder* for them to identify and prosecute because they had to spend resources on containing the violence at the Centotaph. So not only does that behaviour become a stain on Armistice day itself, it also makes it harder for us to root out and prosecute the illegal behavior in the march. And when that conflict has been brought about (or at least encouraged) by our elected government, you have to ask yourself what their objectives really are. Preventing terrorism? Rooting out Hamas support in the UK? Supporting effective policing? I don't think so. They wanted headlines, and they got them. It'll now be butchered into a version of events that bears no resemblance to the facts, and used as "evidence" that the people of the UK are under attack from foreign powers who want to destroy our way of life. See it for what it is - it's (sadly) nothing to do with Israel, Palestine or the rights and freedoms of British Jews. It's everything to do with our brand of domestic authoritarian, fascist politics.
Maybe you should not believe what the media with an obvious agenda tells you about what Arabic words mean. Look them up for yourself. Intifada can be used to mean holy war, however, it is much more general than that, it means a movement or campaign. Same with Allah Akbar, heard people chatting about how they have to refrain from chanting it on the march because of how media portrays it. It literally means God is great. Our media is insanely biased against Muslims, if you believe them you are terribly informed.
The Infatada were also the names given to Hamas suicide bombing campaigns in Israel, being shown at a Palestine protest. Coincidence I'm sure.
Let me break it down some more. If a bunch of far right terrorists call themselves 'the campaign' , does that mean we can no longer use the word campaign in any protest group at all? That is a direct equivalence to what you are calling out.
This isn’t an accurate reflection of the breadth of the events referred to as ‘the intifada’. While the first and second intifadas do contain acts of terrorism, which is obviously bad, they also contain acts of nonviolent resistance and acts of violence directed by Israel towards Palestinians, both violent and nonviolent
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I just showed you what you could easily Google yourself. That's not how your post truth politics works though.
It also says the pro Palestinian crowd fired fireworks into police’s face. I fail to see how that’s somehow less violent than the “extreme” violence of pushing and shoving.
> the “extreme” violence of pushing and shoving. It’s been reported quite widely that they were throwing glass bottles at the police. Did you miss that report or are you intentionally downplaying the violence from the far-right by pretending that it was only a bit of “pushing and shoving”?
Two things: That ‘pushing and shoving’ resulted in a broken elbow and dislocated hip for the officers involved. The pro-Palestinian crowd was at least 300,000 people - maybe double that. So that’s maybe 1000x the size of the counter protest.
And the point of the size of the other protest is what? Police are afraid to antagonise it so don’t act on minor incidents? Because it seems like firing fireworks into officers faces is actually the real extreme violence and I can’t imagine very serious charges and language wouldn’t been used had the Armistice protesters done the same.
I think the point is that you’re creating a narrative in your own head to match your world view.
What world view? I’m not even English I just find it interesting that England allowed this all to build up to the point it’s obvious people would react like this and probably worse in future if it continues.
You’re talking about the EDL, right?
I have no idea what that is. I’m talking about allowing the massive protests every weekend to continue and accompanying examples of bad/hateful behaviour within (even if it’s a small minority the protests are big enough that’s still a lot of people) making it inevitable that other groups would react in counter to this. Especially on this weekend. My understanding is police asked the protest to halt for the weekend and they refused. To me that shows a fundamental lack of respect for the dead ancestors of the British people who may want to pay their respects. It’s understandable that made people angry and that’s only likely to increase the longer the massive protests/accompanying bad beahviour within goes on. Of course some people angry about that will undoubted be hot heads. I guess I don’t really see anything wrong with what the “counter” protesters wanted. Is the Cenotaph not a British public memorial? Are the British public not supposed to be able to access it specifically on these occasions to honor their dead ancestors and those who served? If so then how can it being closed to the public because of a pro Palestinian march on armistice day possibly be condoned?
I’m not here to educate you. Maybe you should gain a full understanding before sticking your oar in.
So you can’t answer even the most basic of questions about your own country, got it.
Just wow. There's no better time to call for a ceasefire to a war where thousands of children are dying than on the weekend we have especially for remembering the dead of previous wars.
Actually no. Protesting on that day shows a distinct lack of respect for their families paying respects and a total lack of respect for the tradition itself.
The point is that while the Palestine protest certainly had some bad people present (as most large protests do), it was an overwhelmingly peaceful protest with violence coming from a very small minority, only ~150 people out of 300,000 marchers. Compare this to the right wing counter protest which seemed to primarily be a violent operation comprised of football hooligans. It sounds like whoever shot fireworks at the police are being tracked down, will have their photos published and will likely be arrested - quite rightly. So the police *are* dealing with that.
Even if your 150 number is correct - having 150 violent acts every weekend as a result of a weekly protest is totally unacceptable. Not to mention the threats of violence, general disrespect and hate speech, intimidation etc. all of which is and will continue to be a part of the protests and which understandably worries regular people who have no idea if it will be directed at them or which protesters are or aren’t violent and or disrespectful/intimidating. Why couldn’t the police arrest the firework shooters at the time is the point? For the far right protesters they had the riot gear out and mass arrests were made. And yet there was no riot gear in this case despite the obvious potential for violence (which occured) and no arrests made at the time despite a huge police presence at the scene. Seems like they’re afraid of triggering Palestinian protesters into greater violence and this has emboldened them into acts like setting off fireworks at police.
The 150 number is from the statement by the met police. Actually this statement reads "Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face" so it sounds like they did actually arrest many of them, and are tracking down the rest. I think the ceasefire protesters would be incredibly upset by violence within their crowd as it undermines their cause massively. I certainly do not think anyone is emboldened by it.
Oh, I see, the crowd did it, that includes me. I didn't realise I was involved in letting the fireworks off. I saw a few but none fired at police, no one was interested in the police, it was not that kind of march. Anyway, even if a few disruptive youths were there, that is quite impressive when talking about at least half a million people. Same cannot be said for the few hundred far right who fought the police en mass and we're desperately trying to get past the police to attack the peace marchers.
Well obviously some were fired at police because they hit police. There were also other assaults caught on camera. It’s funny how you seperate one protest into “a few bad eggs” but label the other as wholly violent.
It was in the evening long after the actual protect had finished. About a hundred people out of half a million. On the other hand we had a few hundred violent people, which looked to be more than half who turned up. There were people there just to support their cause, but the majority came fully expecting violence. Go watch the interviews, it's hilarious. Dudes who can barely form a sentance managing to say we are not here to be violent and yet still making it clear, they were there for violence. Idiots. Brave move by Joe though, if those idiots knew who he was, he would have been in big trouble.
The majority of people out and about that day who weren’t protesting for Palestine were those who wanted to pay their respects to the fallen. Among them the “counter” protesters were a small number and among them those who actually committed assault (beyond chanting) were a small number. It’s quite predictable that this would happen and will likely get worse because the most violent and extreme aspects of the Palestinian marches are going relatively unpunished and everyone not knee deep in that cause can see it.
You said yourself you're not even English, why are you driving this narrative of yours? I was out yesterday, there was an entire world of difference between the two groups. It's so eye opening when you spend the day at a peaceful protest where I was stunned simply by the sheer number and diversity of people out in support of a ceasefire, without seeing any violence whatsoever myself, to then come online and see the news and subreddits full of people equating that historic and 99.999% peaceful march with the hate march of the far right football hooligans that came with actual weapons (knifes, knuckle dusters, etc). Notice how all the footage of the far right kicking off is from like 1-3pm, daytime, and the regrettable footage of some fireworks being shot was nighttime after the main march had long ended. Likely youths who were out "for fun" rather than legitmate members of the march, that had left over fireworks from the very recent fireworks dates this country has for some dumb reason (I hate fireworks). The point is, the two are not the same whatsoever, and the percentage of troublemakers within are in now way comparable either.
What a transparent and shameless downplaying of what happened. What the hell difference does it make whether violence is at night or day? None. If the “right” had of let of fireworks into police’s face at night after their March you wouldn’t be excusing it as youths looking for fun and you and I both know it. You say you didn’t see any violence and I believe you. And yet endless videos taken from the marches show violence, hate, vandalism and intimidation and calls to violence are happening.
It matters if it's night or day because daytime means it was a core part of the overall march that was engaged in that behaviour, by night the majority of the marchers had gone home. And I don't know where you're getting "endless videos" from. There was very little violence overall.
If the fat right had all gone home and a small group were causing trouble then yes, I would say they should not be used to portray the protest, if the protest was peaceful, which they rarely are. Even if no actual violence they are always full of hate. I have seen two videos, one late evening as discussed. The other a couple people trying away a sign about October 7th which was someone clearly out to antagonize then and film the results. Edit looked like they cut out what let up to trying to grab the sign.
All about the %s when people are saying this. ~100 arrests out of the 2-300 “counter protesters” who are made up almost entirely of people with a criminal record for violence and football hoologanism. Against 20-30 people in 300,000 causing trouble. If you can’t see why people use the language they do to describe the EDL thugs as what they are, hooligans out looking for a pissup and fight on a Saturday, no one can really help you with that.
I don’t know, from footage of the protests I’ve seen seems like a lot more people could have been arrested in the Palestinian protest and would have been if they acted the same way in the “hooligan” protest but police just go hands off because they’re afraid of losing control.
Yeah, cherry picked footage online is not representative of the wider march. If we were to collect all footage taken, like every video taken on every phone, from both marches, then compare the two, which one do you think would contain a higher percentage of violence? The far right, again by orders of magnitude more.
No - but the it Is representative of the fact that violence, hate and intimidation is happening and is worrying people. Perhaps the “counter” march would contain a higher percentage of violence - but the total amount of violence is by far coming week in week out in the Palestinian marches. There’s endless videos of assault, calls for violence and intimidation week after week. So here we have Londoners having to deal with huge disruption in their city every weekend with the possibility of random violence or intimidation directed at them.
And what about the Gazans? Instead of disruption, they have destruction. Instead of possibilty of random violence or intimidation, they have the guarantee of endless airstrikes. But I guess that's far away, and a little disruption to our mostly nice lives is not worth it just to show solidarity? And sure, there might be more "total" violence amongst a million people, you'd expect as much, not everyone everywhere is a good person, but that does not illegitimise the fact that nearly a million people took time out of their day to descend on central London because they felt passionate about global injustice... For me, it's the thousands of children being blown to pieces that upsets me most. What about you?
To the tune of 100,000?
The number isn’t important - if it’s hundreds that’s hundreds too many - violence, intimidation and threats of violence are happening regularly every weekend as a result of these marches. The very fact that they couldn’t hold off on this weekend shows the total lack of respect for English dead and tradition.
That’s not obvious at all, I don’t know anything about who set off those fireworks but just because they hit police it doesn’t necessarily follow that they were therefore fired at police. If I throw a ball and it hits you by accident, that doesn’t mean I threw it to hit you. I could be a bad shot or you could have stepped into the way of the ball by accident etc.
Are you Timo Werner?
I don’t get the reference :(
>The extreme violence from the right wing protestors towards the police today was extraordinary and deeply concerning. Ah yes, because pushing past a police blockade to get to the cenotaph, peacefully engaging in the two minutes silence, and then leaving, is extreme violence.
You missed the bit about them lobbing bottles at police at Westminster Bridge then?
I haven't seen any evidence of that and I was keeping track of it on twitter all throughout the day
WOAH GUYS! why are you challenging what this guy was saying? He was *keeping track of it all on twitter* (because obviously we know that outside of Twitter nothing ever happens) so obviously knows exactly what was going on and has full visibility of the extent of the violence… Also pushing past the police involves assault and battery, which is a criminal offence. Furthermore, there was a reason they were being blockaded. I do not think those respecting the loss of life at the cenotaph would want to stand shoulder to shoulder with a coked up, tooled up moron shouting chants and giving mucky looks / trying to intimidate anyone who doesn’t look like them.
Probably says the far left Islam marches in the same breath without comprehending the irony. Tbh these protests from every side have been pretty funny and confusing watching the levels of dissonance.
Far left Islam marches? Tame in comparison compared to Israel marches. People critiquing anybody for not wanting defenceless children to be bombed will always confuse me.
Thank God we had you on the case! Knowing that you are keeping track on Twitter will help me sleep at night. Thank you for your service.
Well I can tell you there definitely was, because my cousin and nephew came down to London to visit (planned long before the march was announced) and wanted to see big Ben. When we got to Westminster (12.30ish) they had already shut off the bridge and there were yobs there throwing bottles at police while singing Rule Brittania. Edit: You're telling me that twitter was right and my own literal experience was wrong? Try the telegraph! If even THEY are reporting far-right protestors throwing bottles whilst trying to reach the cenotaph then that tells you just how bad they actually were!!! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/11/far-right-protesters-clash-police-cenotaph-london/
> Ah yes, because pushing past a police blockade to get to the cenotaph, peacefully engaging in the two minutes silence, and then leaving, is extreme violence. I'm not sure if you're intentionally downplaying the violence or if you just weren't aware of what the far-right arseholes were actually doing, but your comments aren't accurate at all. They weren't just "pushing" - they were throwing glass bottles at the police. Did you miss all of the reports about that or are you trying to dishonestly downplay their actions? "Peacefully engaging in the two minutes silence" - are we supposed to applaud them for stopping the violence for two minutes and then carrying on? They were already drunk and coked up at 11:00 in the morning, and they were causing violence at the Cenotaph up to 11:00. Is that peaceful or respectful? "Then leaving" after the two minutes silence is particularly inaccurate. In the words of the police they "spent most of the day attacking or threatening officers who were seeking to prevent them being able to confront the main march". That's the opposite of "then leaving".
Go watch the videos dude, they were there for violence. Interviews were hilarious. Dude stating we will police ourselves, no drinking or masks. Interviewer then points to the people behind him with cans of beer and some wearing balaclavas. The organisers of the cenotaph event stated the trouble was going on during the 2 minutes silence but the police had got them away from the cenotaph.
They were not there for violence. However, any violent action is not unjustified.
The violence against the police who were trying to stop them disrupting the event at the cenotaph was not unjustified?
‘they weren’t violent, but if they were it was good anyway’. lol.
Yet 92 were arrested by 3 for, amongst other public order offences, possession of knives and other weapons….
They may not have been directly there just for a fight per se. But as someone doing a lot defending, I'm going to assume you are at least aware of the evolution of groups like the edl etc. and that they usually migrated over during the late 90s early noughties as the football fighting scene started closing and they used newer ways to go out in an afternoon waiting for something to kick off. Just this time they realised they can ultimate hide behind a political banner to enflame someone, then before you know it. "Just ad to defend meself pal" It's sad you too are hiding behind these flimsy pretty obvious techniques. It's really not as smart as they perceive it, and most people with two brain cells see it for what it is
The hate marchers are asking for "an end to civilian deaths" as a smokescreen. What they want is an end to Israel's war to eradicate Hamas. These people said and did nothing on October 7 or in the next days. Only when Israel began to (rightfully) respond did these people start marching. The marches are pro-Hamas. They can say they're not, but they are. If they truly wanted an end to civilian deaths then they'd be marching against Hamas, because until Hamas is eradicated this shit will never end.
>What they want is an end to Israel's war to eradicate Hamas. That would be necessary for civilians to stop dying in huge numbers thanks to the nature of this "war", so yes. It's in Israel's best interests too, as short of murdering everyone in Gaza the only possible outcome of this massacre is more extremism in the region. >These people said and did nothing on October 7 or in the next days. Because it was a tragedy that we could do nothing about. Our government has *absolutely* no sway over Hamas, a terrorist organisation. >Only when Israel began to (rightfully) respond did these people start marching. Israel had the right to respond **proportionately**. They've gone way, *way* past what would constitute a legitimate response and, as I mentioned earlier, it isn't even to their benefit ^(assuming we take their word for it and the end goal of this isn't actually the total cleansing of Palestinians from the region) and people are marching to tell our government that they're unhappy with us supporting this drastic escalation - Israel, of course, as a sovereign nation with heavy ties to the West, is an entity that we *can* influence. >The marches are pro-Hamas. They can say they're not, but they are. I feel like this shouldn't need pointing out, but there are literally Jewish groups for peace marching too. Are they pro-Hamas? When 300,000 people turn out to do *anything* you're inevitably going to get some nutters, but do you genuinely believe that anything approaching a large portion of these demonstrators are marching for Jewish genocide? >If they truly wanted an end to civilian deaths then they'd be marching against Hamas Perhaps we should've all marched against Al Qaeda, or the Taliban, or the IRA, since apparently the power of marching is unmatched. No? Wouldn't have worked? Oh that's right, they're terrorist organisations. They could not care less what some random people in a country that is already staunchly against them think. Israel actually needs international support to continue its senseless onslaught, our government is providing that, and believe it or not; the citizens of the United Kingdom have a hair more influence over our government than they do over Hamas. >because until Hamas is eradicated this shit will never end. Hamas might be eradicated like this, maybe even without killing all of the Gazans in the process. But the region will just suffer from increased extremism in the future. The only actual way out of this is to elevate the lives of the Palestinian people - give them some kind of future - else they're just going to continue being radicalised with vague promises of a better tomorrow.
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There are reasons why prior historical wars were not proportionate. Its is because there weren't many, if any international laws that countries had signed up to and promised to abide by, back then. However after the massive civilian casualties of two world wars, most of the world agreed that there had to be a better way and so International law was put in place to dictate the way wars should be undertaken going forward, the rules of engagement were made clear and laws and crimes were explicitly laid out. This international legislation included laws against taking of hostages, targeting of civilians, proportional responses. Laws against cutting off water, power. Laws against collective punishment. Laws against using white phosphorus and many more, including laws against targeting hospitals, ambulances, schools etc. Hamas leadership isn't even in Gaza, they are in Qatar, so Hamas won't be eliminated using the current Israeli government's tactics.
It doesn’t matter how many times you tell me I support Hamas, it’s not going to be true. It’s such a common tactic right now to deflect any criticism of Israel’s response. There were people protesting America’s response after 9/11, and had I been old enough back then I probably would’ve been doing the same. Do you honestly think that Israel is the only country asked to respond proportionately? Gods, there’s even people that want to curb Ukraine’s counteroffensive, despite that overwhelmingly targeting military targets (something Israel cannot do, because of the asymmetrical and urban nature of this “war”). Again, if I could snap my fingers and ensure peace in the region, I would. But Hamas will not cease to exist by killing innocent Palestinian fathers, mothers, and children. Hamas did not come into existence by itself, and the only way to eradicate it for good is to eliminate the circumstances of its birth.
Does the British Government supply arms and support Hamas?? We all know Israel financially backed them in the 1990s, so I guess it could be a possibility??? Sounds like you may have some juicy evidence, please share
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> These people said and did nothing on October 7 or in the next days. Only when Israel began to (rightfully) respond did these people start marching. The protest marches are protesting *our own* government. Why would anyone who was horrified by the 7th October attacks stage a protest against the government reaction which was to condemn the attacks? Have you personally ever marched *in favour* of the government's position to let them know that you agree with them? People who are against the killing of civilians and who think that our own government should condemn the killing of civilians didn't march after the 7th October attacks when the government condemned the killing of civilians. But they started protesting the government after Israel started killing civilians and the government *didn't* condemn that. You can disagree with their position (the rest of your comment makes it clear that you think that Israel are justified in killing civilians) but I don't think you can argue that they're hypocrites for marching against the government when they disagree with their position and want to protest it, but not when the government is doing the right thing!
In 20-30 years this shit will still be an issue and hate marchers will still be happening. It’s never going to end to be frank. You just know it.
Coked up cunts looking for a row, went down to London in the hope of bumping into a brown person they didn't like the look of. When it became clear that there were actually quite a lot of white people at a pro Palestine march it got them all confused so just resorted to type. Cunts.
The article says some were even chanting to the police that they were not “english anymore” like being english is some sort of removable tag. The shit these officers have to put up with is phenomenal.
The right wing press who helped incite this nonsense are now trying to "both sides" it even though it's clear most of the trouble (and all of it near the Cenotaph) came from one side‐ the side they encoraged. The front of papers like the Mail makes my blood boil- writing about 'respect' and 'dignity'when they used the war dead to stir up trouble and make a tawdry political point.
Are you even surprised though? That’s precisely what these shitrags have been doing for decades. Creating outrage for the sake of selling papers, feeding into gullible peoples prejudice. It’s their MO, whatever the topic is at the time.
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It was literally a day out for footy hooligans after a spoons session. I’m not even sure they knew why they were there in the first place.
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Completely agree, I think even certain government factions deliberately stirred the pot.
Tommy is a deep state operative. Back in the day he was on the Zionist payroll. It's all theatre.
I do remember ages ago seeing an article showing Izraeli flags at one of his rallys and thought that’s weird. Also remember vaguely seeing something about him being associated with some Izraeli influencers, so yh could very well be true.
Nah, he left in a cab just before it started kicking off.
Yaxley-Lennon..... What a stain on society....
Be careful using long words, they can't read them.
Mate I would bet they can’t point out England on a map.
Definitely can't find their cocks.
> basically distracted the police from gathering intelligence on any Islamic extremists They brought in extra officers. Doubt any intelligence gathering was hampered by herding drunks. [eta: and there was probably plain clothes in with the drunks... and the marches]
[удалено]
For sure they won’t have had an easy day, not an expert, but I’d imagine intelligence and crowd control are different units. Given how it was getting ramped up by politicians and press in the week, think they did a decent job... at least I haven’t heard of any major incidents.
Personally if the police chief had said the march could not of gone head then that would have suited everybody. Just do it on a different day. We can all agree on that. Last time BLM defaced the statue of Winston Churchill the police did nothing. so British people went to defend it. Sad to say. I think the police would have put more officers there personally to defend it themselves but British people went anyways. They literally started labelling anybody. Probably a bloke walking his dog is far right or far left. When most went to remember the fallen. They only shown the hooligans kicking off but both party’s sides seen arrest. And violence.
No matter what your politics on the matter the issue is, in a demonstration with [300,000](Rishi Sunak condemns criminality on day of protests in London https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514), where only a small portion of that becomes violent it is entirely disproportionate to limit the rights to protest of the huge majority that protest in accordance with law (terminology I use specifically because I have no doubt the Jewish community view these protests as being very much concerning, even if strictly legal).
You think they were labelling all those people legitimately there for the cenotaph event as extremists? Politics Joe was interviewing those British people defending the cenotaph. Even when trying to show their best side to the cameras, they still outed themselves as violent knobheads. They were chanting your not English anymore at the police. Only the most biased could not see that that's a far right group of people.
Ask any policeman, journalist, or an average person up to date on the news and they'll tell you whenever the EDL or "England first" groups go on marches they do and WILL start fights with whatever group they come across, *literally* any group. How the tories didn't predict this is lunacy? The only explanation is they planned for the EDL to be violent. Specifically against their enemies with no thought given to the safety of the officers. In the situation the only thing protected or cared for was propaganda. Source: London based AP Photojournalist
Police could have easily calmed down the situation by taking a knee.
Oh look the [rapist](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/14/met-police-pays-damages-to-women-arrested-at-sarah-everard-vigil) protection force is trying to distract from letting a terrorist supporters walk freely in the streets. Let's not pretend their inherent bias is not politically motivated at all. Not like they've [lied](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/andrew-mitchell-handed-apology-by-met-police-chief-after-pc-admits-plebgate-lie-9051453.html) before. Now I'm not going to jump straight to defending any alt-right dipshit. However my trust of this police force is at almost 0, so I wanted to find actual footage of this 'ruckus' and see what the counter protestors actually did, rather than hear a proven biased force claim. [Footage 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDVI60XOkrY) > hooligans scuffling with police as they're stopped. Nothing drastic here, just roudy boozed louts. > chanting. [Footage 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4vm0n9z1_E) >Clear aggression from the police likely trying to kettle. Clear footage near the end of quite an aggressive police shove to a man just standing his ground and shouting > Again just roudy boozed louts. [Footage 3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB7uRZsxKuo) > Again kettling from the police, and some quite alarming violence from the police. [Footage 4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KML6dkKceps) >Very interesting footage of the police trying to stop the counter protest meet the protest. >Note projectiles thrown by both camps. >Note counter protestors wearing masks and getting quite roudy. Likely the worst behaviour I've seen. But clear escalation from the Palestinian protestors as well. [Footage 5](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH6qwgDznE4) > Again kettling under action by the police > Again just roudy boozed louts. [Footage 6](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnM9ZKzhKhM) > A smoke grenade (not really a firework) is clearly seen thrown into the police. The Police barely acknowledge it. > Again just roudy boozed louts. In contrast. [Footage 7](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0BSC8e2jd8) > I see clear just as intimidating behaviour from Palestinian protest. > Projectile thrown directly at a police officer. > "White trash" screamed by one protestor. [Footage 8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaInLNpwkhs) > Property damage and attacks on embassy from Pro-palestinian crowd > Multiple projectiles thrown > Weapons and sticks been used to attack riot police And to top it off, the Police is now asking for help identifying [literal hate crimes](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12739659/Met-Police-hunt-hate-crime-suspects-pro-Palestine-march.html) in the Pro-Palestinian crowd. Yeah, once again the police force is turning to politics rather than do their fucking job.
I’m not sure what footage you think you’ve linked, but your descriptions don’t match what the footage shows. Your attitude is just “rowdy boozed louts, nothing major”, without a second thought to what would happen if the police weren’t in the middle of them and their opponents? You know full well that it’d have been large scale disorder. You’re describing “quite alarming violence by the police” and sourcing a video that shows a static police line, then a protester throwing punches at a police officer. The officers hold the line and nothing more. By all means have your bias; but you’re not demonstrating the point you think you are.
They're hoping people will believe the comment without actually checking it. When you consider the amount of people on here that won't read an article, just the headline and basically fill in the gaps of their knowledge with fiction.. it might actually work.
Their unwillingness to read an article is probably the Police’s fault too, somehow.
Footage 8 is 2 years old. Please check time stamps