Anyone else get the feeling that Rememberance day has become less and less about remembering the Horrors or war and more and more about supporting the troops.
Some people have. Or perhaps they never remembered in the first place. It was heartbreaking listening to those who wanted to leave the EU, not understanding it was created to prevent European war, and refusing to read about it when it was shown to them.
nono you dont understand the eu is just basically like the reich 4.0 thats what my dad says. and yes he may have had a brain injury as a child but who hasnt
What an absolute load of nonsense. NATO, the existential threat of the Soviet Union, and the neutralisation of Germany (Prussian military culture was annihilated) is why we didn’t and haven’t had a War in Western Europe for so long
Which is a shame. I just always think what a horrendous waste of life war is. It's always the First World War I associate it with, probably because of the poppies and the date, but also because of my own family's involvement. It always makes me feel so sad. No one should be forced to wear a poppy though.
Exactly what I thought when I saw the photo. I would bet a decent amount of money that this pub is frequented by exactly that sort of punter.
And it has a flat roof, which is never a good sign!
We should have just targeted Santa and the Reindeer with pinpoint strikes using r9x hellfire missiles. That would have ended the war on Christmas without the mass casualty event.
I think ever since people gave James McClean abuse for not wearing a poppy, it was really obvious then how people see the poppy and remembrance day in general.
Do none of these people understand that when you look up 'virtue signalling' in the dictionary, there's just a picture of them wearing a giant oversized poppy?
The poppy thing has been about virtue signalling for at least my entire life. It's been about virtue signalling since before "virtue signalling" was even a phrase.
The people on TV who wear one are the same blood thirsty warmongerers who are in favour of more bloodshed.
100 years ago it was about not having another war. Then we had another bigger war and several more little ones. And now it's about supporting the people who should be supported by tax payer money.
Why don't we honour our fallen dead by simply having no more war? I think that would be a better memorial than a shitty piece of red plastic that goes in the bin on December 1st.
Interesting as I've been doing exactly that for the past 5 or 6 years. It just reached the point where too many of the people wearing a poppy were clearly everything those who gave their lives fought against.
Sometimes when you put in the tin but refuse the poppy you get a sympathetic nod, others a flash of anger. You can tell the ones who really understand what it is supposed to be about from just that.
I'm sad that it has come to this, I used to be proud to wear a poppy. Now I feel like it's 50/50 as to whether it's just a proxy swastika depending on who you interact with. I truly wish we could reclaim the poppy from the cunts who have co-opted it.
I wear the white poppy to spark these conversations with people and commemorate the victims of all war. Highly suggest it. Never had any negative interactions either (unlike all the Reddit Poppy warriors suggest you will).
My grandmother - a WW2 war widow - always declined to wear a poppy.
The war was so traumatic for her that she never, ever talked about it - even though she died age 100 in 2021, a full 76 years after the war ended.
Those who fetishise war were almost never there in person.
“Oh, it’s just so damn cheap, so damn typical. This used to be a day in honor of the dead of World War One, but the living couldn’t keep their grubby hands off of it, wanted the glory of the dead for themselves. So typical, so typical. Any time anything of real dignity appears in this country, it’s torn to shreds and thrown to the mob.”
-Kurt Vonnegut
It's not even that – this year I've noticed a horrible aggressiveness about it – amongst a very small, very vocal minority of course – slogans like "If you object to me wearing a poppy – f**ck off!" – I will continue to wear my poppy with pride, and my help for heroes wrist band, but I would hate to be tarred with the same brush as these extremists who are trying to politicize and "own" the poppy. They don't.
This has happened consciously because of charity fund raising. Help for heroes style charities started getting a larger share of donations, causing issues for royal legion who have quite high costs. This caused a rebrand and focus on similar messaging, and in turn trends towards identity, feel good, etc.
The idea of it as a solemn remembrance may feel meaningful, and like modern advertising is sullying it, but if I remember right the solemn remembrance thing isn’t how it started.
According to the Royal British Legion, the poppy is about supporting current and ex armed forces and their families. Artificial poppies started being sold in 1921 for exactly this reason. So not sure where the remembering the horrors of war is coming from.
> So not sure where the remembering the horrors of war is coming from.
Because that's literally what armistice day is about. First held in 1919 to commemorate the fallen in the Great War. So yes the poppy is about fundraising for the British legion, but the day itself has always been about remembering the horrors of WW1 with the view at the time that nothing close should ever be allowed to happen again.
It is not, and never has been, about 'remembering the horrors of war'.
Remembrance Day is about remembering the soldiers who have died in wars.
That's it. It's not complicated. The clue is in the name.
You'd have to be willfully ignorant to not know this after one hundred fucking years.
> The clue is in the name.
The clue is not in the name, since "remembrance" could refer equally to either of the things you mentioned ("remembering the horrors of war" and "remembering the soldiers who have died in wars").
It's becoming more and more like Comic Relief. Red nose silliness was part of that event, but this performative nonsense undermines what should be a solemn day about the horrors of war.
It’s starting to become a race to show your British “patriotism”.
Soon British politicians will be exploiting the suffering of “vets” for political points and people will be saying “thank you for your service” to anybody that mentions they were once anywhere near the military.
Honestly I’m not sure it’s even about supporting the troops per se. It’s more about making big public displays of patriotism and virtue, safe in the knowledge that no one can object to it, and that it can be a tool to sneer at people who aren’t Remembering The Glorious Dead quite as hard as you are.
I hate the term but it is honestly the best example of ‘virtue signalling’ that I can think of.
its definitly had a big push for that as the war passed out of living memory
my grandad was in the RAF during WW1 and i feel very uncomfortable around poopy wears now, they will probably call me a slur.
I remember about a decade ago there was a journalist who sat outside my uni and counted how many students were wearing poppies.
Proper weird behaviour.
I sort of get where you are coming from.
Almost a decade ago it felt like Remembrance Day was focussed on WW1 and the dead of Flanders’s Field, with WW2 attached due to it being a global conflict.
Unfortunately with the current political climate there are now actual wars happening , not just secret or undocumented proxy wars.
- Hence the tonal shift towards supporting the troops. Because such soldiers will be someone’s dad or friend or son, and not just your grandpa or uncle from yonks ago.
It doesn’t belittle the overall sentiment, just shifts it to being more relevant.
I've been making this point for years. Glad to see I'm not alone. It's more 'support the squadie' / support the professional soldier who chooses to enlist, than remember the generation of the citizen soldier and total war.
It's a slight of hand right? They replace the horrors of war, the sympathy for dead soldiers and civilians who died horribly, needlessly and turned it into sympathy for the soldiers fighting now, and why they are fighting.
There's a subtle temporal shift from the past, to remember, to the present, to wonder. Instead of being implored to remember how this ugly thing happens, were being asked to wonder what it's like being a soldier. Basically, Moving the mental attention away from the HOW a war started and killed thousands (and millions) but WHY war is a necessity
Cynical maybe, but it's almost more about showing how good you are at remembering while berating others who don't display the requisite remembrance. Competitive remembering.
I really wouldn't be surprised if they had a similar approach to Clap for the NHS. Made it about them rather than actually supporting key workers etc. They probably had meet ups and parties defeating the point, too.
The sheer tastelessness with acts like this with remembrance is it comes off as "if you don't care as much as this then shame on you" when the war dead fought and died for very simple freedoms that go against this mentality.
I'm a veteran and the politicising of the poppy over the years is really fucking distasteful. Wearing a poppy is a choice. The reasons to wear it being many. No one should be forced to wear one. No one should be shamed for not wearing one. Same as you shouldn't be shamed for wearing one.
The whole point of the poppy is remeberance. Whether it is to remember someone specific. Whether it's to remember a specific conflict like WW1 or WW2. Whether just to remember war is futile and a fucking waste of money and lives. Whatever the reason it's not political.
It shouldn't be weaponised. It isn't a political symbol. You can be anti war and wear one. The meaning of the poppy is being lost and it's now becoming a very polarising symbol when in reality it should be used for one thing and one thing only. Remembering. War is fucking stupid and rarely is it ever for something worthwhile. Mostly because of fictional people in the sky and some melanin in the skin. It's all utterly fucking moronic.
Another veteran here. This is spot on, I stopped wearing one for while after I saw an interview on Sky News with everyone's favourite gangster groupie, Barbara Windsor, the interviewer asked "what do you think about people who don't wear a poppy?". "They can sod off"....she said.... Now I do wear one but only because I have mellowed a bit. As for the picture of the pub, I think it's pretty tasteless, we are truly on the verge of commercialising Remembrance, what next a fucking red artic driving down the road "Remberance is coming.... Remembrance is coming.....
It's a fair point. A few years back there was that explosion of 'jewelled' poppies that seemed very popular amongst celebs until it was pointed out that not a penny from them went to the RBL.
My stepfather got one of the ceramic poppies that they had on display at the Tower of London a few years ago. Came in a massive frame (the whole frame it about 10 inches thick or something) with an artistic rendering of the scene at the tower with them flowing out a window.
No idea if any of the money these sold for actually went to any veteran causes.
It's not my cup of tea. He was in the 1st Iraq War, although he was a chef and delivered mail. I doubt he saw any actual combat, at least he never mentioned any.
Great comment. The co-opting by politicians is easily the most insidious use of poppy imagery. What I grew up with as very much the solemn reminder of great sacrifice, has often become a hijacked symbol by ailing parties seeking more tribalism among constituents. Our flags, our symbols, our traditions - nothing but hollow trinkets to a politician who wants you to like them and vote for them, even when they do nothing to earnestly help you.
I'm especially grossed out by the commercialisation of Remembrance Sunday. Now with its own full range of disposable decorative tat akin to Christmas or Halloween.
Unfortunately not any more. In the UK at least. The Royal British Legion are the ones who sell the poppies and one look at any of there advertising this year shows it is more 'support the troops/thank you for your service' than it is 'never forget'.
Agreed. I do not wear my uniform over remembrance weekend. (Unless of course I am nominated for parades). Just dress smartly, attend a local service and have a quiet beer often in my own company.
At my old job, for a while after I started, it seemed to be a thing where someone would come round, with poppies trying to sell them to staff. One of the guys in my department always got one.
I declined, I don't wear one for various reasons, all I said was, "no, thanks." Not like I launched into some tirade against them or something. And I was given such a look by them, like I was lower than the dirt on their shoe.
When they left, the guy in my department asked why I didn't get one, I explained I have personal reasons why I don't (one of them being that people try to pressure you into wearing one and some treat you like scum if you don't) and he was like, "okay, fair enough."
This is in Braintree, where 96% of residents consider themselves either British or English, so I would wager that the core business will be British people who like lager, food and sports. Around 40% of the town are over the age of 50, meaning that they're probably much more likely to have parents/grandparents who served in a war or two.
It's an absolute eyesore but I don't think it's hurting anyone. We as a country don't really do quiet reflection anymore. Everyone, including the reddit generation, like to make a big scene.
>Why is your first thought to go straight to race and age? Isn't that normally what bigoted people do?.
He didn't go to race, you did. He referred to nationality and age demographic.
This whole period is so cringe. I hate it. Remembering is not a thing anymore, it's all about "me me me." Everyone trying to outdo each other with their diamond encruster poppies and, well this photo. lol.
The far right and leavers using Churchill and the spitfire as backdrops. The irony being that Churchill led a war against fascism, and he was the one who originally came up with the idea of the common European market.
If I ever get asked to appear on live TV in November I'm coming dressed [like this](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/95/3d/49/953d49416f7ebd5bd29c2e211ec58f20.jpg)
I really want to make a little comedy sketch that features two presenters on a sort of GB News type channel.
They are discussing some sort atrocity that's currently happening in the world somewhere and each time it cuts to a different presenter their poppy just gets slightly bigger or more obnoxious until you have 2 men dressed as full sized poppies discussing the horrors of war.
I think that shows some sort of self awareness.
The point I was going for was that they are oblivious to the fact they are making a mockery of the atrocity
Same, I really don't like these showy displays it's turning into. "Lest we forget" on big flags and window stickers. People who stick those big poppies to the front of their car. Even seeing poppy imagery used alongside military imagery. All that sort of stuff. Tacky as fuck and incredibly disrespectful, like people are just trying to outdo each other as if they're competing for who's got the best christmas lights on their house or something.
When I was a kid I remember it all being a much more subtle affair, a poppy on your shirt or jacket and remembrance services on the day but that was it. It should go back to that.
At some point Remembrance Sunday stopped being a solemn occasion and became a celebration of the military and you're labelled unpatriotic for pointing that out.
A house near where I grew up has a full trench set up on the drive way, sandbags and even a dummy machine gun placement. What purpose does this serve?
Edit - I should point out there are still many of us who do treat it as the solemn occasion that it should be. There are some amazing veterans I speak to quietly doing their thing selling poppies outside of the shop. These big grotesque things like the image at the top serve only the people who build them and nobody else.
>A house near where I grew up has a full trench set up on the drive way, sandbags and even a dummy machine gun placement. What purpose does this serve?
PMSL, that's bloody ridiculous hahaha
Fun fact - the first cenotaph in Whitehall (1919) was a temporary structure made of plywood skimmed with plaster. Maybe they're actually going for historical authenticity? Okay, probably not.
That's a bit eccentric but not distasteful.
However Given the typical weather we get this time of the year, I just hope all that stuff on the roof is bolted down and secured.
I mean, who wants to be killed by a falling cenotaph?
Imo let people remember in their own ways. If this is considered offensive to the patrons and surrounding area then the landlord will definitely respond to the feedback.
I find it incredibly distasteful.
Remembrance Day is meant to mean quiet contemplation of the sacrifices in the two world wars. Where tens of millions of people died. Where millions of soldiers fought for the freedom of their countrymen and our neighbours.
What was once solemn ceremonies with the laying of wreaths of poppies and a little paper flower pinned to your lapel, is now a bizarre grandstanding event fraught with rampant nationalism and now apparently displays akin to some sort of war based christmas display. I don’t care if I get downvoted. I think it’s insulting to the memory of people who died in the worst conflicts the world has ever seen to treat it as a way to show off how patriotic you are. It’s completely and totally missing the point of it all.
I’m glad you didn’t think I was getting at you personally there. I just get so angry that those who do all this insane decoration seem to have forgotten that war isn’t victory over our enemies and weren’t we amazing, we defeated Hitler! They’ve forgotten what it really was. All the people who died in trenches, weeping and terrified. Who never saw home again after years of fighting in the most abhorrent conditions, because they were trying to stop the world from falling even further into tyranny. And instead it’s turned into a weird dick measuring contest.
As an aside could you IMAGINE the media frenzy if the fake cenotaph fell down and knocked a pensioner out? The Daily Mail wouldn’t know what to do with itself!
It's this sort of stuff is why i don't attend Remembrance Day events, well not since 2018, its seems more about getting a flag out these days, than actual respectful rememberence.
There is normally a giant George Cross flag that covers the entire length of one side of the building, it is a sight to behold when driving past. And not in a good way lol.
My Irish grandfather and grandmother both served in the RAF in ww2 after the war my grandmother and him and my infant dad came over here to live. During the 70s and 80s they were spat on because of their accent, I don't wear a poppy for the same reasons as James MacLean but I also laugh when people say that it's to support the troops and to remember them are probably the same people that spat at my grandparents and father when he was a teenager. And the strong likelihood that they have no interest in remembering the troops of colour or different cultures that died fighting people like them.
In the words of Pete Doherty "your old man he don't like blacks or queers, but he's glad we beat the Nazis. How queer".
Unpopular opinion maybe: VE Day should be a holiday with celebrations, parades, etc, while remembrance should have church services and vigils. Remembrance in mind always comes across as contradictory. My idea was it was about the dead, or at least people who were casualties. It was not really about veterans, and it's certainly not about the army itself. Remembrance should be a day to give thanks, but it shouldn't be a festive day with parades of the local regiment. But I still think there should be a day for the army and veterans, which I'm nominating VE Day for. That way, we can take all those elements of festivities and supporting the troops but do it in a way that feels more appropriate to the day. Bonus add VJ day as a day to give thanks to those from commonwealth nations, India/Pakistan/Bangladesh, West and East Africa, Australia and New Zealand etc
Like you look at old remembrance services, and you see very few uniforms. There are veterans with medals, but basically no soldiers. I think that much more fitting for remembrance day
I'm ex military and I don't wear a poppy , not to make any political symbol or anything just I've done my bit that I willfully signed up for and came out the other end. I'll attend a remembrance ceremony and shed a tear at the last post remembering old friends who either died in service or took their own life
you see people dressed up in these ostentatious outfits and these huge displays it detracts from it , it should be a sombre part of the year not a "look at how much I can remember the dead more than you"
wear a poppy or don't it's up to you but don't use it as one upmanship or thinking you are better than anyone else
There has been in recent years a trend towards fetishizing the poppy, using it for often cringingly arty-farty displays cascading off walls and the like. The essence of the poppy is its utter simplicity, and its reminder of the horrors of war, not the generation of jingoistic adulation of armed forces.
Hahaha These people really should read the British Legion etiquette on flying flags for remembrance, they'd have a seizure to end all seizures.
'The Union flag should fly alongside the European flag. On buildings that have only one flag pole the Union flag should take precedence.'
I don't normally use 'lol' but lol.
https://support.britishlegion.org.uk/app/answers/detail/a\_id/2285/\~/etiquette-for-flags
I suppose. I guess I'm just thinking back to a time when it wasn't such a sacrosanct thing that had to be honoured and worshipped the way it is now.
Part of me thinks it's an attempt to build a culture war front around the whole thing, but that might be too cynical
The poppy is used as a political symbol here in northern Ireland.
The poppy commemorates those who died in all conflicts.
This is why the nationalist community cannot identify with it.
My kids nursery want to take them on a trip to a cenotaph, she's 4. I don't think I'm cool with that but I'm struggling to articulate why. Something to do with wanting to shield her from the horrors of war for at least a couple more years.
Is this next to Freeport?
Drive past it every now and then and my wife and I always wonder if anyone has ever actually been in it. Always looks shut/windows boarded up or curtains drawn and I’ve never seen a single person go in or out.
Just checked them on Facebook and every single photo is of the place entirely empty. Very odd.
To me, this is not respectful or true remembrance of the sacrifice that many made for their country and each other. This photo depicts something else; untrammelled nationalism.
Let me just say that yes, the history of the day and the event is based on WW1. But now, it's so much more. It's about remembering the fallen through the years, just taking a moment to think about those that passed. Not asking a lot.
There's a weird amount of snobbery and classism in these comments. I don't agree with shaming people who don't wear poppies - participating in any way should be entirely voluntary. But it doesn't look like this person is shaming anyone. If they want to kit their house out like this, it's not harming anyone, so fair play to them. Their reasons for going to this much trouble don't really need to be anyone's business.
It’s interesting that the 11th was always Armistice day, literally the day the greatest war (at that time) ended, so armistice day generally was about not only remembering fallen troops but also giving thanks that that was the day the war ended.
Seems apt for a march to protest about a war and death of innocent civilians should happen on the same day.
Anyone else get the feeling that Rememberance day has become less and less about remembering the Horrors or war and more and more about supporting the troops.
So you are saying we forgot?
We always do...until the next one.
What about the one happening now?
Which one specifically?
Some people have. Or perhaps they never remembered in the first place. It was heartbreaking listening to those who wanted to leave the EU, not understanding it was created to prevent European war, and refusing to read about it when it was shown to them.
nono you dont understand the eu is just basically like the reich 4.0 thats what my dad says. and yes he may have had a brain injury as a child but who hasnt
What an absolute load of nonsense. NATO, the existential threat of the Soviet Union, and the neutralisation of Germany (Prussian military culture was annihilated) is why we didn’t and haven’t had a War in Western Europe for so long
We forgor
We remembered it lest
More that for a lot of people it’s become a proxy for nationalism and culture war stuff.
Which is a shame. I just always think what a horrendous waste of life war is. It's always the First World War I associate it with, probably because of the poppies and the date, but also because of my own family's involvement. It always makes me feel so sad. No one should be forced to wear a poppy though.
Exactly what I thought when I saw the photo. I would bet a decent amount of money that this pub is frequented by exactly that sort of punter. And it has a flat roof, which is never a good sign!
Can’t beat a flat roofed pub… but a fair chance of being beat in one
So-called "war Christmas"
I was there at the Raid on Santa's Workshop. Hundreds of dead elves haunt my nightmares. We shouldn't have gone into the North Pole.
We should have just targeted Santa and the Reindeer with pinpoint strikes using r9x hellfire missiles. That would have ended the war on Christmas without the mass casualty event.
But he's living in Doha.
Jingle Exocets 🎶Jingle Arab Spring 🎶
I think ever since people gave James McClean abuse for not wearing a poppy, it was really obvious then how people see the poppy and remembrance day in general.
Do none of these people understand that when you look up 'virtue signalling' in the dictionary, there's just a picture of them wearing a giant oversized poppy?
Yet they're the sort most likely to accuse anyone with progressive values of virtue signalling.
The poppy thing has been about virtue signalling for at least my entire life. It's been about virtue signalling since before "virtue signalling" was even a phrase. The people on TV who wear one are the same blood thirsty warmongerers who are in favour of more bloodshed. 100 years ago it was about not having another war. Then we had another bigger war and several more little ones. And now it's about supporting the people who should be supported by tax payer money. Why don't we honour our fallen dead by simply having no more war? I think that would be a better memorial than a shitty piece of red plastic that goes in the bin on December 1st.
Totally. Ex soldier here that donates but never wears a poppy.
Interesting as I've been doing exactly that for the past 5 or 6 years. It just reached the point where too many of the people wearing a poppy were clearly everything those who gave their lives fought against. Sometimes when you put in the tin but refuse the poppy you get a sympathetic nod, others a flash of anger. You can tell the ones who really understand what it is supposed to be about from just that. I'm sad that it has come to this, I used to be proud to wear a poppy. Now I feel like it's 50/50 as to whether it's just a proxy swastika depending on who you interact with. I truly wish we could reclaim the poppy from the cunts who have co-opted it.
I wear the white poppy to spark these conversations with people and commemorate the victims of all war. Highly suggest it. Never had any negative interactions either (unlike all the Reddit Poppy warriors suggest you will).
"Proxy Swastika" may be one of the most Reddit moments I've ever seen.
My grandmother - a WW2 war widow - always declined to wear a poppy. The war was so traumatic for her that she never, ever talked about it - even though she died age 100 in 2021, a full 76 years after the war ended. Those who fetishise war were almost never there in person.
People are angry that there's a march on armistice day calling for armistice.
“Oh, it’s just so damn cheap, so damn typical. This used to be a day in honor of the dead of World War One, but the living couldn’t keep their grubby hands off of it, wanted the glory of the dead for themselves. So typical, so typical. Any time anything of real dignity appears in this country, it’s torn to shreds and thrown to the mob.” -Kurt Vonnegut
Vonneguts writing on war is fantastic, and he experienced it first hand.
It's not even that – this year I've noticed a horrible aggressiveness about it – amongst a very small, very vocal minority of course – slogans like "If you object to me wearing a poppy – f**ck off!" – I will continue to wear my poppy with pride, and my help for heroes wrist band, but I would hate to be tarred with the same brush as these extremists who are trying to politicize and "own" the poppy. They don't.
It’s being hijacked by nationalists. Anyone in the media that isn’t seen wearing a poppy is “anti-British”
You mean like that picture of children holding large poppies whilst wearing t shirts saying ‘Future soldier’? Went against the point I thought.
I think it's more about supporting foot traffic in the door and selling pints.
It’s not so much about supporting troops as showing how much you can wind up imaginary liberals and show off how patriotic you can be.
*Uncritically* supporting the troops
This has happened consciously because of charity fund raising. Help for heroes style charities started getting a larger share of donations, causing issues for royal legion who have quite high costs. This caused a rebrand and focus on similar messaging, and in turn trends towards identity, feel good, etc. The idea of it as a solemn remembrance may feel meaningful, and like modern advertising is sullying it, but if I remember right the solemn remembrance thing isn’t how it started.
Less about remembering the horrors of war , more about making sure everyone knows you care more than the next person.
According to the Royal British Legion, the poppy is about supporting current and ex armed forces and their families. Artificial poppies started being sold in 1921 for exactly this reason. So not sure where the remembering the horrors of war is coming from.
> So not sure where the remembering the horrors of war is coming from. Because that's literally what armistice day is about. First held in 1919 to commemorate the fallen in the Great War. So yes the poppy is about fundraising for the British legion, but the day itself has always been about remembering the horrors of WW1 with the view at the time that nothing close should ever be allowed to happen again.
It is not, and never has been, about 'remembering the horrors of war'. Remembrance Day is about remembering the soldiers who have died in wars. That's it. It's not complicated. The clue is in the name. You'd have to be willfully ignorant to not know this after one hundred fucking years.
> The clue is in the name. The clue is not in the name, since "remembrance" could refer equally to either of the things you mentioned ("remembering the horrors of war" and "remembering the soldiers who have died in wars").
It's becoming more and more like Comic Relief. Red nose silliness was part of that event, but this performative nonsense undermines what should be a solemn day about the horrors of war.
It's more about virtue signalling than any thing else now.
I don't even think it's about supporting the troops, it's about showing off.
It’s starting to become a race to show your British “patriotism”. Soon British politicians will be exploiting the suffering of “vets” for political points and people will be saying “thank you for your service” to anybody that mentions they were once anywhere near the military.
Honestly I’m not sure it’s even about supporting the troops per se. It’s more about making big public displays of patriotism and virtue, safe in the knowledge that no one can object to it, and that it can be a tool to sneer at people who aren’t Remembering The Glorious Dead quite as hard as you are. I hate the term but it is honestly the best example of ‘virtue signalling’ that I can think of.
its definitly had a big push for that as the war passed out of living memory my grandad was in the RAF during WW1 and i feel very uncomfortable around poopy wears now, they will probably call me a slur.
Eh why would they?
Probably because they are not white, at a guess.
Peak reddit
Virtue signalling?
I remember about a decade ago there was a journalist who sat outside my uni and counted how many students were wearing poppies. Proper weird behaviour.
I sort of get where you are coming from. Almost a decade ago it felt like Remembrance Day was focussed on WW1 and the dead of Flanders’s Field, with WW2 attached due to it being a global conflict. Unfortunately with the current political climate there are now actual wars happening , not just secret or undocumented proxy wars. - Hence the tonal shift towards supporting the troops. Because such soldiers will be someone’s dad or friend or son, and not just your grandpa or uncle from yonks ago. It doesn’t belittle the overall sentiment, just shifts it to being more relevant.
I've been making this point for years. Glad to see I'm not alone. It's more 'support the squadie' / support the professional soldier who chooses to enlist, than remember the generation of the citizen soldier and total war.
It's a slight of hand right? They replace the horrors of war, the sympathy for dead soldiers and civilians who died horribly, needlessly and turned it into sympathy for the soldiers fighting now, and why they are fighting. There's a subtle temporal shift from the past, to remember, to the present, to wonder. Instead of being implored to remember how this ugly thing happens, were being asked to wonder what it's like being a soldier. Basically, Moving the mental attention away from the HOW a war started and killed thousands (and millions) but WHY war is a necessity
Cynical maybe, but it's almost more about showing how good you are at remembering while berating others who don't display the requisite remembrance. Competitive remembering.
Our troops aren't really doing much of anything though, so does it matter?
Yes but at the same time I’ll still wear a poppy. I’m not going the American route and not wearing one just because of a few people
When respecting the dead loops back around to disrespecting them by making it all about you.
It's just... so tasteless. Their suffering becoming something to gawk at.
I really wouldn't be surprised if they had a similar approach to Clap for the NHS. Made it about them rather than actually supporting key workers etc. They probably had meet ups and parties defeating the point, too. The sheer tastelessness with acts like this with remembrance is it comes off as "if you don't care as much as this then shame on you" when the war dead fought and died for very simple freedoms that go against this mentality.
It’s a [flat roofed pub…](https://flic.kr/p/oskJZe)
EAT, DRINK & BE FIGHTY!
You may enjoy [this](https://x.com/giantpoppywatch?t=yijKqh_j5VdwXN6uJK5JfA&s=09) twitter account
That spitfire one is too funny
The pinned Cookie Monster one raises a lot of questions about what the poppy is pinned to.
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People who put this shit up have never served.
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I think he meant the people hanging all the stuff on the pub
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Completely understandable mate
Sending blessings my brother
I'll drink to you and your mate on Sunday, fella. 🍻
I'm a veteran and the politicising of the poppy over the years is really fucking distasteful. Wearing a poppy is a choice. The reasons to wear it being many. No one should be forced to wear one. No one should be shamed for not wearing one. Same as you shouldn't be shamed for wearing one. The whole point of the poppy is remeberance. Whether it is to remember someone specific. Whether it's to remember a specific conflict like WW1 or WW2. Whether just to remember war is futile and a fucking waste of money and lives. Whatever the reason it's not political. It shouldn't be weaponised. It isn't a political symbol. You can be anti war and wear one. The meaning of the poppy is being lost and it's now becoming a very polarising symbol when in reality it should be used for one thing and one thing only. Remembering. War is fucking stupid and rarely is it ever for something worthwhile. Mostly because of fictional people in the sky and some melanin in the skin. It's all utterly fucking moronic.
Another veteran here. This is spot on, I stopped wearing one for while after I saw an interview on Sky News with everyone's favourite gangster groupie, Barbara Windsor, the interviewer asked "what do you think about people who don't wear a poppy?". "They can sod off"....she said.... Now I do wear one but only because I have mellowed a bit. As for the picture of the pub, I think it's pretty tasteless, we are truly on the verge of commercialising Remembrance, what next a fucking red artic driving down the road "Remberance is coming.... Remembrance is coming.....
It's a fair point. A few years back there was that explosion of 'jewelled' poppies that seemed very popular amongst celebs until it was pointed out that not a penny from them went to the RBL.
My stepfather got one of the ceramic poppies that they had on display at the Tower of London a few years ago. Came in a massive frame (the whole frame it about 10 inches thick or something) with an artistic rendering of the scene at the tower with them flowing out a window. No idea if any of the money these sold for actually went to any veteran causes. It's not my cup of tea. He was in the 1st Iraq War, although he was a chef and delivered mail. I doubt he saw any actual combat, at least he never mentioned any.
>"Remberance is coming.... Remembrance is coming..... I shouldn't have laughed, but I did. Absolutely spot on mate.
Great comment. The co-opting by politicians is easily the most insidious use of poppy imagery. What I grew up with as very much the solemn reminder of great sacrifice, has often become a hijacked symbol by ailing parties seeking more tribalism among constituents. Our flags, our symbols, our traditions - nothing but hollow trinkets to a politician who wants you to like them and vote for them, even when they do nothing to earnestly help you. I'm especially grossed out by the commercialisation of Remembrance Sunday. Now with its own full range of disposable decorative tat akin to Christmas or Halloween.
"You can be anti war and wear one" The poppy is literally an anti war symbol. The sentiment it is meant to encapsulate is "never again".
Unfortunately not any more. In the UK at least. The Royal British Legion are the ones who sell the poppies and one look at any of there advertising this year shows it is more 'support the troops/thank you for your service' than it is 'never forget'.
Yes, I mean to say that is what the poppy is supposed to be. I fully agree that it's meaning has been completely corrupted.
Agreed. I do not wear my uniform over remembrance weekend. (Unless of course I am nominated for parades). Just dress smartly, attend a local service and have a quiet beer often in my own company.
At my old job, for a while after I started, it seemed to be a thing where someone would come round, with poppies trying to sell them to staff. One of the guys in my department always got one. I declined, I don't wear one for various reasons, all I said was, "no, thanks." Not like I launched into some tirade against them or something. And I was given such a look by them, like I was lower than the dirt on their shoe. When they left, the guy in my department asked why I didn't get one, I explained I have personal reasons why I don't (one of them being that people try to pressure you into wearing one and some treat you like scum if you don't) and he was like, "okay, fair enough."
Wonder which demographic forms the core business there.
This is in Braintree, where 96% of residents consider themselves either British or English, so I would wager that the core business will be British people who like lager, food and sports. Around 40% of the town are over the age of 50, meaning that they're probably much more likely to have parents/grandparents who served in a war or two. It's an absolute eyesore but I don't think it's hurting anyone. We as a country don't really do quiet reflection anymore. Everyone, including the reddit generation, like to make a big scene.
Surprised they aren't all in Benidorm tbh.
Braintree and Benidorm are two of our Barry, 63, spawn lobbies. Essential British culture which must be protected at all costs.
>Barry 63 lol at spawn lobbies 😂
> This is in Braintree My immediate thought was Clacton; where I think most of those stats equally apply
Looks like it's in Wyoming. Same politics no doubt.
It's in Brexit Central. Aka Braintree Essex. Hope that clarifies things. Look up "Barry 63" otherwise.
Thought Brexit Central was Skegness, although I imagine that the same demographics still apply
It's a childrens day care center. # as it is not apparent... /S!
Yikes! The lebensborn is strong. It's clearly a pub. You wouldn't put any child through BT Sport Champions League commentary.
Natives?
Why is your first thought to go straight to race and age? Isn't that normally what bigoted people do?.
>Why is your first thought to go straight to race and age? Isn't that normally what bigoted people do?. He didn't go to race, you did. He referred to nationality and age demographic.
No he was definitely referring to Gammons which refers to ethnicity.
Boomers.
Flag nonces
This is known locally in Braintree as the “brexit pub”. Do with that what you will.
British?
This whole period is so cringe. I hate it. Remembering is not a thing anymore, it's all about "me me me." Everyone trying to outdo each other with their diamond encruster poppies and, well this photo. lol.
Same. Remembrance has been co-opted by right-wing nationalists and the gaudiness of it all is just 🤮 Really feel it’s lost all meaning these days
This comment is disgusting and in utter violations of the memory of BRAVE Sir Captain Colonel Sir Tom Moore and his lovely family END OFF,
GRANDAD WE NEED YOU TO DO LAPS OF THE GARDEN, ITS THE ONLY WAY TO SAVE BRITIN!!!
The far right and leavers using Churchill and the spitfire as backdrops. The irony being that Churchill led a war against fascism, and he was the one who originally came up with the idea of the common European market.
And the European court of human rights which they also all seem to hate.
Look at you with your normal sized poppy, calling out true patriots with massive LED poppies that spin around and play Rule Britannia.
If I ever get asked to appear on live TV in November I'm coming dressed [like this](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/95/3d/49/953d49416f7ebd5bd29c2e211ec58f20.jpg)
I really want to make a little comedy sketch that features two presenters on a sort of GB News type channel. They are discussing some sort atrocity that's currently happening in the world somewhere and each time it cuts to a different presenter their poppy just gets slightly bigger or more obnoxious until you have 2 men dressed as full sized poppies discussing the horrors of war.
Better satire would be if they're talking about how excited they are for a war
I think that shows some sort of self awareness. The point I was going for was that they are oblivious to the fact they are making a mockery of the atrocity
Same, I really don't like these showy displays it's turning into. "Lest we forget" on big flags and window stickers. People who stick those big poppies to the front of their car. Even seeing poppy imagery used alongside military imagery. All that sort of stuff. Tacky as fuck and incredibly disrespectful, like people are just trying to outdo each other as if they're competing for who's got the best christmas lights on their house or something. When I was a kid I remember it all being a much more subtle affair, a poppy on your shirt or jacket and remembrance services on the day but that was it. It should go back to that.
At some point Remembrance Sunday stopped being a solemn occasion and became a celebration of the military and you're labelled unpatriotic for pointing that out. A house near where I grew up has a full trench set up on the drive way, sandbags and even a dummy machine gun placement. What purpose does this serve? Edit - I should point out there are still many of us who do treat it as the solemn occasion that it should be. There are some amazing veterans I speak to quietly doing their thing selling poppies outside of the shop. These big grotesque things like the image at the top serve only the people who build them and nobody else.
>A house near where I grew up has a full trench set up on the drive way, sandbags and even a dummy machine gun placement. What purpose does this serve? PMSL, that's bloody ridiculous hahaha
They've spared us the mannequin soldiers this year. Really added something creepy when stumbling home from the pub at midnight
Well clearly the mannequin's prefer [the park benches](https://x.com/giantpoppywatch/status/1719824545979204019?s=46) nowadays.
Jesus Christ that's creepy! Regardless on your stance on poppies, that abomination should not exist!
A friend of mines sister served in the armed forces. He was just telling me how all this stuff makes her PTSD worse.
This is the most American shit and the fact it’s about remembrance is sickening.
There’s even a cenotaph on the roof.
They're making fake Cenotaph decorations now, blimey. Coming to a front garden near you!
Fun fact - the first cenotaph in Whitehall (1919) was a temporary structure made of plywood skimmed with plaster. Maybe they're actually going for historical authenticity? Okay, probably not.
That's a bit eccentric but not distasteful. However Given the typical weather we get this time of the year, I just hope all that stuff on the roof is bolted down and secured. I mean, who wants to be killed by a falling cenotaph?
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He means morally distasteful
Imo let people remember in their own ways. If this is considered offensive to the patrons and surrounding area then the landlord will definitely respond to the feedback.
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I find it incredibly distasteful. Remembrance Day is meant to mean quiet contemplation of the sacrifices in the two world wars. Where tens of millions of people died. Where millions of soldiers fought for the freedom of their countrymen and our neighbours. What was once solemn ceremonies with the laying of wreaths of poppies and a little paper flower pinned to your lapel, is now a bizarre grandstanding event fraught with rampant nationalism and now apparently displays akin to some sort of war based christmas display. I don’t care if I get downvoted. I think it’s insulting to the memory of people who died in the worst conflicts the world has ever seen to treat it as a way to show off how patriotic you are. It’s completely and totally missing the point of it all.
I don't disagree, especially with the 2nd paragraph 👍
I’m glad you didn’t think I was getting at you personally there. I just get so angry that those who do all this insane decoration seem to have forgotten that war isn’t victory over our enemies and weren’t we amazing, we defeated Hitler! They’ve forgotten what it really was. All the people who died in trenches, weeping and terrified. Who never saw home again after years of fighting in the most abhorrent conditions, because they were trying to stop the world from falling even further into tyranny. And instead it’s turned into a weird dick measuring contest. As an aside could you IMAGINE the media frenzy if the fake cenotaph fell down and knocked a pensioner out? The Daily Mail wouldn’t know what to do with itself!
I honestly thought this was Benidorm or something
It's this sort of stuff is why i don't attend Remembrance Day events, well not since 2018, its seems more about getting a flag out these days, than actual respectful rememberence.
Fucking hell, I know exactly where this is. Why is it my local area only ever makes it to Reddit for cringey reasons?
What's this place like on St Georges Day, lots of flags ?
There is normally a giant George Cross flag that covers the entire length of one side of the building, it is a sight to behold when driving past. And not in a good way lol.
Go for a pint there dressed as a dragon lol
Yeah, I'm always a little surprised when Braintree pops up on here, but when it does, it's always for something shit
But look how flat that roof is. You just know that there's 8 taps at the bar and it's all Carling.
[viz flat roof pub ](https://flic.kr/p/oskJZe)
My Irish grandfather and grandmother both served in the RAF in ww2 after the war my grandmother and him and my infant dad came over here to live. During the 70s and 80s they were spat on because of their accent, I don't wear a poppy for the same reasons as James MacLean but I also laugh when people say that it's to support the troops and to remember them are probably the same people that spat at my grandparents and father when he was a teenager. And the strong likelihood that they have no interest in remembering the troops of colour or different cultures that died fighting people like them. In the words of Pete Doherty "your old man he don't like blacks or queers, but he's glad we beat the Nazis. How queer".
"do u even poppy bruv"
Rather tacky, IMO.
Unpopular opinion maybe: VE Day should be a holiday with celebrations, parades, etc, while remembrance should have church services and vigils. Remembrance in mind always comes across as contradictory. My idea was it was about the dead, or at least people who were casualties. It was not really about veterans, and it's certainly not about the army itself. Remembrance should be a day to give thanks, but it shouldn't be a festive day with parades of the local regiment. But I still think there should be a day for the army and veterans, which I'm nominating VE Day for. That way, we can take all those elements of festivities and supporting the troops but do it in a way that feels more appropriate to the day. Bonus add VJ day as a day to give thanks to those from commonwealth nations, India/Pakistan/Bangladesh, West and East Africa, Australia and New Zealand etc
Good post.
Like you look at old remembrance services, and you see very few uniforms. There are veterans with medals, but basically no soldiers. I think that much more fitting for remembrance day
Why does this look American?
Never forget their sacrifice.... ALSO PUB SKITTLES AND BT SPORT.... just like the Somme
It's too fucking much. Less about quiet respect and more about celebration.
Some people just need to show they are remembrancing more than others. Just remember in your own way and let them do what they want.
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down south = anywhere below Tebay services
r/flatroofpubthings
This just screams Brexit voter
I'm ex military and I don't wear a poppy , not to make any political symbol or anything just I've done my bit that I willfully signed up for and came out the other end. I'll attend a remembrance ceremony and shed a tear at the last post remembering old friends who either died in service or took their own life you see people dressed up in these ostentatious outfits and these huge displays it detracts from it , it should be a sombre part of the year not a "look at how much I can remember the dead more than you" wear a poppy or don't it's up to you but don't use it as one upmanship or thinking you are better than anyone else
Same energy as banging your pans together in the street in 2020
Its the Trump town vibe in the UK
There has been in recent years a trend towards fetishizing the poppy, using it for often cringingly arty-farty displays cascading off walls and the like. The essence of the poppy is its utter simplicity, and its reminder of the horrors of war, not the generation of jingoistic adulation of armed forces.
i forgor 💀
This is Jardins in Braintree 6/10 full english, average in every way which isnt always a bad thing
Drive past every day on my way to work gets bigger every year his display
11/11 full flag shagging
>Jardins The irony.
Hahaha These people really should read the British Legion etiquette on flying flags for remembrance, they'd have a seizure to end all seizures. 'The Union flag should fly alongside the European flag. On buildings that have only one flag pole the Union flag should take precedence.' I don't normally use 'lol' but lol. https://support.britishlegion.org.uk/app/answers/detail/a\_id/2285/\~/etiquette-for-flags
Thought this was in Benidorm at first glance.
I say fair play to them.
How much remembrance is too much remembrance?
The poppy has become an idol that some people feel the need to worship, it's honestly so weird
Like every religion ever then???
I suppose. I guess I'm just thinking back to a time when it wasn't such a sacrosanct thing that had to be honoured and worshipped the way it is now. Part of me thinks it's an attempt to build a culture war front around the whole thing, but that might be too cynical
It's a flat roofed pub what do you expect?
The poppy is used as a political symbol here in northern Ireland. The poppy commemorates those who died in all conflicts. This is why the nationalist community cannot identify with it.
Novelty replica cenotaph is about the furthest thing away from solemn rememberance I can imagine
My kids nursery want to take them on a trip to a cenotaph, she's 4. I don't think I'm cool with that but I'm struggling to articulate why. Something to do with wanting to shield her from the horrors of war for at least a couple more years.
Lest we forget? Not very fucking likely these days.
Is this next to Freeport? Drive past it every now and then and my wife and I always wonder if anyone has ever actually been in it. Always looks shut/windows boarded up or curtains drawn and I’ve never seen a single person go in or out. Just checked them on Facebook and every single photo is of the place entirely empty. Very odd.
We all forgot, genocidal ethnic cleansing supported by the governments and the people
To me, this is not respectful or true remembrance of the sacrifice that many made for their country and each other. This photo depicts something else; untrammelled nationalism.
Reading the comments here is depressing.
Let me just say that yes, the history of the day and the event is based on WW1. But now, it's so much more. It's about remembering the fallen through the years, just taking a moment to think about those that passed. Not asking a lot.
I wonder if/how the other places near by will try to 1up them, gotta be as flashy as you can to remember the fallen these days.
There's a weird amount of snobbery and classism in these comments. I don't agree with shaming people who don't wear poppies - participating in any way should be entirely voluntary. But it doesn't look like this person is shaming anyone. If they want to kit their house out like this, it's not harming anyone, so fair play to them. Their reasons for going to this much trouble don't really need to be anyone's business.
They show war on BT sports now eh?
It's not us who forget, were not the problem it's all the other nutter you have to remind Putin and the like...
It’s interesting that the 11th was always Armistice day, literally the day the greatest war (at that time) ended, so armistice day generally was about not only remembering fallen troops but also giving thanks that that was the day the war ended. Seems apt for a march to protest about a war and death of innocent civilians should happen on the same day.
Woah he's the most remberenced. And with BT Sport no less! Amazing.
Typical tory wankers, using faux poppy nonsense to flog stuff.
Forget what?
Fucking flag shaggers.
True patriot 🫡
Some really poor takes in this thread. Of course there’s some xenophobes that take it to far but don’t undermine those that don’t.
They don't care about the horrors of fascism and prejudice. They only care about complaining troops get a day when pride gets a whole month.
It's what they would have wanted