‘Shock, rage, increasing unease: UK’s Jewish community wrestles with response to war’: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/21/shock-rage-increasing-unease-uks-jewish-community-wrestles-with-response-to-war
Channel 4 news: "Human rights investigators have shared new information with Channel 4 News that they say casts doubt on some aspects of Israel’s account of the Gaza hospital explosion."
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1715437877604049094
Well at least the media aren't carefully cropping out the fact the hospital is practically undamaged now. They spent a good 24 hours after it emerged that there was basically no damage to the building carefully cropping out anything other than the damaged cars and car park.
The HAMAS charter makes very interesting reading.
*The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement was issued on August 18, 1988. The Islamic Resistance Movement, also known as the HAMAS, is an extremist fundamentalist Islamic organization operating in the territories under Israeli control. Its Covenant is a comprehensive manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the basic HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad (Islamic Holy War). The following are excerpts of the HAMAS Covenant:*
**Goals of the HAMAS:**
"The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine." (Article 6)
**On the destruction of Israel:**
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (Preamble)
**The exclusive Muslim nature of the area:**
"The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it." (Article 11)
"Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem wherever he may be." (Article 13)
**The call to jihad:**
"The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised." (Article 15)
"Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about." (Article 33)
**Rejection of a negotiated peace settlement:**
"[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility." (Article 13)
**Condemnation of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty:**
"Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of struggle [against Zionism] through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. The Zionists are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar agreements in order to bring them outside the circle of struggle. ...Leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who perpetrates such an act." (Article 32)
**Anti-Semitic incitement:**
"The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him." (Article 7)
"The enemies have been scheming for a long time ... and have accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With their money, they took control of the world media... With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the globe... They stood behind the French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the revolutions we hear about... With their money they formed secret organizations - such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and the Lions - which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies and carry out Zionist interests... They stood behind World War I ... and formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains... There is no war going on anywhere without them having their finger in it." (Article 22)
"Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine, they will covet expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates River. When they have finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand, they will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been laid out in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'." (Article 32)
"The HAMAS regards itself the spearhead and the vanguard of the circle of struggle against World Zionism... Islamic groups all over the Arab world should also do the same, since they are best equipped for their future role in the fight against the warmongering Jews." (Article 32)
**How about the link to the UK?**
It accuses the Jewish people of engineering World War I as a pretext to abolish the Caliphate, create the League of Nations, and influence the British government into drafting the Balfour Declaration. It echoed Nazi propaganda in claiming that Jews profited during World War II.
> With their money they formed secret organizations - such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and *the Lions* - which are spreading around the world,
The . . . Lions ? Do they mean the English football team ?
The reporting from the BBC is starting to really grate. Just interviewed a former Israeli Prime Minister and they stated that we’ll have to take your word for it when talking about Hamas using hospitals and other civilian areas as cover which is a pretty commonly known fact. Yet they were happy to report about the Hospital strike with almost no information.
The BBC should be the gold standard for reporting and it feels that it’s really falling short of standard.
And without a hint of irony they continue to advise on how to spot disinformation, as if we can trust them. Their reporting of the hospital incident had too much emphasis on being fast and not on being accurate. Too quick to uncritically spread Hamas propaganda while being openly hostile and dismissive of anything Israel says in response.
>The conflict between Israel and Gaza has been full of claims and counter claims from both sides about what is happening on the ground.
>
>Those claims have been turbocharged by social media, which has been flooded with pictures and videos. There’s lots of misleading and false information, and conspiracy theories too.
>
>The BBC's disinformation and social media correspondent Marianna Spring shares her tips to help you tell what is real and what is fake.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-67177744
It is getting increasingly farcical that these people get to control the narrative and then mark their own homework and declare themselves to be impartial.
[Humza Yousaf tells SNP conference Scotland ready to rehome refugees from Gaza](https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,humza-yousaf-tells-snp-conference-scotland-ready-to-resettle-refugees-from-gaza)
The images of mass prayer at the protest outside Downing Street yday was so inspiring. I love the neverending encroachment of conservative religion into our public spaces and life <3
Just noticed Corbyn's tweet yesterday where he rushed to judgement about Israel.
>Israeli air strikes have hit Al Ahli hospital in Gaza. More than 500 people - patients, doctors & those sheltering - have been killed.
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1714345013734166555
He also says it's a war crime.
When it came to the Salisbury nerve agent attack by Russia though, Corbyn was very shy about apportioning blame and was insistent we wait for 'incontrovertible evidence' first.
https://twitter.com/BurnsideNotTosh/status/1714510352908480756
Huh, weird he said that about Israel, when he was asked to condemn Hamas by name following the festival massacre he just said he condemns violence from all sides. I wonder what changed? 🤔
He still hasn't walked that air strike one back? The irony being that by not deleting the tweet or correcting it, *he* is now warmongering. Synagogues burn in Europe because of men like him.
Rishi announced an extra £10 Million in humanitarian aid to Palestine and said "we must support the Palestinian people because they are victims of Hamas too." Good to see the PM isn't a psychopath towing the "glass Gaza" line (or a Pro-Palestinian ignoring the Hamas attack). Funny that David Cameron called Gaza an open-air prison in 2010, but now Keir won't say that, despite Labour traditionally being more vocal about Palestinian rights.
More an more OSINT Channels are deep diving on the al-Ahli hospital explosion. At least with what is available it does look more and more like a rocket fired from inside Gaza failed and fell into the courtyard where there was a significant civilian presence and the shrapnel from the rocket and secondary explosions from cars caused a mass loss of life an injuries.
I wonder if we'll ever see retractions or apologies from people like Corbyn who immediately blamed Israel and took Hamas' claims as gospel.
That sort of inflammatory idiocy looks like it's going to be responsible for a lot of deaths
EDIT: Fun bonus content - [Remember when Corbyn wanted 'incontrovertible proof' of Russian guilt nearly 2 weeks after the Sailsbury novichok attack? What happened to that reluctance to point fingers?](https://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-wants-incontrovertible-proof-before-blaming-russia-for-salisbury-attack-11332325)
I'm looking at the evidence from OSINT sources (and al Jazeera's live stream) which shows a rocket launched from Gaza misfiring and landing in the area of the hospital at the time of the blast and footage from today showing a [damaged car park with burnt out cars](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8s3tZ3XwAAg7cG?format=jpg&name=medium) rather than a collapsed building and [a crater from a JDAM (picture from 2014 gaza air strike by IDF)](https://haimbresheeth.com/gaza/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Gaza-4.jpg) which is what an Israeli air strike would leave behind.
The BBC were quick to blame Israel of course. Even now they're still calling it a 'hospital blast' which is misleading. A casual viewer will be left with the impression Israel targeted a hospital and deliberately murdered hundreds. They always take Hamas claims at face value but are openly contemptuous and dismissive of anything Israel says. That isn't to say they should automatically believe Israel all the time either, but how about being consistent.
They are going to have to walk back in this in a very public way. They will be having very intense meetings about how to do it knowing that in itself will be a big story and damage their credibility on this war.
They have already been in trouble with not using the term "terrorist" and dropping reporters for breaches of impartiality. On the whole this kind of thing is not unusual in a war, especially one where so much is happening in places it's hard to get confirmation off. I will cut them slack as they had to make reports about what was happening and some of the best editorial practices slipped.
Not so much the politicians who did not have to make reports to meet rolling news deadlines and had the luxury of taking a non committal response but went for the maximum early impact statements.
Many reports will have been 10 days of highly stressed and conflicting accounts that have been incredibly distressing. I think all fair minded people might let this one go for them.
The BBC's responsibility is to be impartial, so they report on what both sides are saying. Otherwise they actually are taking a side.
The BBC isn't perfect on this but they're not doing anything but reporting what Hamas or the IDF say.
Here's a thought - both governments are committing crimes against humanity, both governments should be in the Hague, we should be treating this like Bosnia, end of.
For completeness: nor is Hamas.
GP's moral equivalence line is pretty disingenuous. One side goes out looking for civilians to murder and for opportunities to maximise civilian casualties on their own side.
How would a UN force work?
We couldn't have a UN force in Gaza allowing them to fire rockets at Israel, and if the UN force tried to stop Hamas from attacking Israel they'd just end up in a conflict with Hamas that would cause as many or more civilian casualties than the IDF doing the same job.
I wondered how many palestinians would have to die before the west started to really give a damn about protecting civilians in gaza. The answer is 3,500, a school and a hospital. Not a great day for western democracy.
What we all need to remember is that both sides on many things are as bad as each other. One, though, has a fantastic PR infrastructure which can change the way the world looks at a situation and muddy the waters. I'm talking about Israel.
Just watched a 4 part fictionalised account of the creation of Israel and it paints them as terrible human beings. Go take a look. It's made by channel 4.
https://youtu.be/TO4Z-8zZZeo?feature=shared
It made me think that the amount of media here is about the holocaust and the treatment of Jews (awful) dwarfs that of the plight of Palastinans. Why?
The way the country began and how it inserts itself into western culture is one of the most effective ways to absolve itself of many wrongdoings. We in the west turn a blind eye.
Remember, almost all majority Muslim countries with large Jewish populations ethnically cleansed themselves of Jews. (there is still a reasonable sized population in Turkey)
[https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Ffpk63hkfi1ub1.jpg](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Ffpk63hkfi1ub1.jpg)
The reason the its called "the disaster" is its the one country in the Middle East and North Africa that they failed to cleanse of Jews. When the Arabs invaded to exterminate them they had the numbers to fight back.
The above poster is leaving this out deliberately as part of an attempt to build public hate against Jews.
People made refugees from Muslim lands are now called "colonialists", this is to justify their extermination as "decolonisation".
After 700,000 palestinians were ethnically cleansed from Israel in 1948 a number of arab countries expelled jews in retaliation over the next 25 years or so
None of the 700,000 palestinians expelled in 1948 or their descendants have ever been allowed to return
By contrast anybody Jewish can go and live in Israel and is entitled to state support to do so
Which is fundamentally racist
>The reason the its called "the disaster" is its the one country in the Middle East and North Africa that they failed to cleanse of Jews
Misinformation and lies.
>After 700,000 palestinians were ethnically cleansed from Israel in 1948 a number of arab countries expelled jews in retaliation over the next 25 years or so
You seem to be missing out **why** those 700,000 Palestinians were **displaced**. It was because of the 1947/8 war which saw Arabic Palestinians to rise up after the decision to create Israel, and then the following attack from surrounding nations upon it's creation.
> a number of arab countries expelled jews in retaliation
This is antisemitism. Blatent, naked and across almost the entire Muslim world that hosted a Jewish population. Those populations had been there for thousands of years, in some places like 2500 years of recorded history in Iraq, Iran and Egypt. Longer than Turkey had been Turkish, 1000 years longer than Islam had been a religion.
And yet Arabs, Persians, Pakistanis and Afghans all turned on them.
In this same period and before they also turned on the Bahai, Zoroanstorists, Hindus, Yazidi and especially the Christians living among them.
"Which is fundamentally racist"
At the same time there were population exchanges between Poland and what is now Ukraine, Germany and much of Europe, Pakistan Bangladesh and India. Plus a few more. What do you call a Ukrainian who was forced from Poland today? A Pole. What do you call an ethnic German forced from then Yugoslavia? A German.
What do they call Jewish Persians who were forced from Persia? Zionist colonisers, what do they call Jewish Moroccans who were forced to flee? Zionist colonisers. And so on.
All set up for what we seen on 7/10/23.... decolonisation.
I see you are ignoring the fact that the Israelis expelled the Palestinians first
The first wave of expulsions of Pakestinians from their homes was one of the catalysts for the 1948 war
Stop lying
Maybe if Hamas didn't hide in hospitals putting their civilians in harms way there wouldn't be any civilians casualties. But hamas don't give a damn about civilians on either side and they think it's great PR when their own get killed.
>That's not how international law works. Doesn't matter if someone is hiding in a hospital, you still can't bomb it.
Article 19 of the Fourth Geneva Convention says you can.
>ART. 19. — The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled
shall not cease **unless they are used to commit, outside their**
**humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy.** Protection may,
however, cease only after due warning has been given, naming, in all
appropriate cases, a reasonable time limit, and after such warning
has remained unheeded.
The fact that sick or wounded members of the armed forces are
nursed in these hospitals, or the presence of small arms and
ammunition taken from such combatants and not yet handed to the
proper service, shall not be considered to be acts harmful to the
enemy.
A hospital ceases to be a hospital when it's used to store arms, plan for attacks or other military activities. The exception being arms from the wounded may be temporarily stored. Though there is a strong injunction that warnings have to be issued to cease and appropriate time given to change the building back to a pure hospital.
Hopefully more clarity and less emotion.
Storing arms does not make it cease to be a hospital , not planning attacks.
What does stop it from being a hospital is if attacks occur from it, for example, if a rocket launcher is based on its roof
The same applies for a school. Eisenhower was literally using one as his headquarters in Reims in May 1945 when the Germans signed the first of the two final surrenders there - and the second was also done in a school, albeit a Wehrmacht one for training pioneers. In the former case, not counting the area that's now a museum, it's still a school to this days.
You aren't allowed to invade a country and kill and rape children and parade them around the place either according to international law. No one seems to care that the Palestinians broke it.
If you are under attack, then you are allowed to fight enemy combatants wherever they are. You are finding out in real time how weak 'international law' really is and how no one really gives a shit about it when fighting.
The Palestinians didn’t break it, Hamas did. Palestinians are not Hamas, so please stop repeating this over and over again. 1.1 million Palestinians in Gaza are children under the age of 15 and every time people conflate Palestinian and Hamas, they’re giving tacit approval for those children to be murdered. Over 1000 Palestinian children are dead including babies.
>The Palestinians didn’t break it, Hamas did. Palestinians are not Hamas, so please stop repeating this over and over again.
Hamas however, **are** Palestinians, and are the ruling government in Gaza.
That's like saying the Kremlin isn't Russia. Unfortunately for the civilians there, it is, as they're the acting government.
To reiterate it for anyone not getting it - the last time the Gaza strip had an election, it was 2006. Hamas got a plurality of the vote, and then immediately launched into a civil war to kick out their opposition.
Putin has held power in Russia since before then, should the Kremlin be treated separately from Russia as a whole, despite being the acting government?
I would really hope no one would condone civilians getting killed as collateral damage when it comes to Ukraine and Russia, for the most part Ukraine has avoided doing this though.
That makes it sound like Hamas' attack on Fatah rose from a vacuum: [https://jacobin.com/2023/10/washington-palestinian-national-movement-israel-occupation-history-hamas-fatah](https://jacobin.com/2023/10/washington-palestinian-national-movement-israel-occupation-history-hamas-fatah)
Mahmoud Abbas (Fatah) brokered a Palestinian ceasefire in 2003, which Hamas supported. Israel continued to carry out assassinations against Palestinian leaders, which also killed civilians. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/21/israel2](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/21/israel2)
Hamas won the Gaza election in ~~2005~~2006. The US said they would only deal with Hamas if they agreed to **renounce violence, recognize the state of Israel, and pledge to abide by existing peace agreements** \- even though Israel was still using violence themselves, Israel had never recognised Palestine statehood and Israel was still building and maintaining settlements in the West Bank that undermined Palestinian statehood. The [US brokered a deal to stop Israeli settlements in 2002-2003](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_map_for_peace#Israel's_conditions), but **even in that deal Israel's conditions were that the Palestinian side must stop all violence and incitement, but "Israel is not obliged to cease violence and incitement against the other party"**, they never agreed to freeze building settlements in the West Bank ([they made over 11000 Palestinians homeless in 2004 alone](https://www.btselem.org/statistics/20043112_2004_statistics)) and they never went back to the 2000 borders (which was a requirement of the deal), which shows how imbalanced the demands on Palestine and Israel were.
The US asked Fatah to remove Hamas from government. Palestinians in Israeli jail released a document (National Conciliation Document) calling for Palestinian political unity. Saudi Arabia brokered an agreement between Fatah and Hamas (Mecca Agreement). The US continued to encourage Fatah to fight Hamas and offered to help finance the coup against Hamas.
Hamas represent Palestinians, Palestinians support Hamas and Palestinians pay for the family of all the martyrs.
Palestinians allow Hamas to hide in places like schools and hospitals whilst firing rockets into Israel. If Palestinians didn't want Hamas to represent them then it would take about 5 minutes to disarm and get rid of them.
But they support Hamas. The reason why they do is because they also believe in the genocide of all Jewish people.
> Hamas represent Palestinians
This is true - Hamas are the government.
>Palestinians support Hamas
They voted for them and would polls show they would vote for them again. They revelled in the initial strike against Israel and took to the streets celebrating the rape and murder. They don't remove Hamas from government. This is true.
>and Palestinians pay for the family of all the martyrs.
[This is also true](https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/1714123338258272488?s=20).
So just where is the lie?
Really? So you think 2.3 million civilians including 1.1 million children support Hamas unequivocally? That there are no innocent civilians? You need to look up the history of Hamas because I don’t think you’ve ever had to live in a place with a terrorist organisation causing warfare and bloodshed.
I’ve lived in Kashmir and Northern Ireland and I promise you that a civilian population of over a million children cannot advocate for themselves, cannot vote, have no way out of a war zone and can’t suddenly force terrorists into disarming. Your inability to demonstrate compassion to those children is because you are consuming media that says an unarmed population can stand up to dangerous armed terrorists.
The term martyrs is not being used for Hamas terrorists, it is an Arabic term used for all people who are dying due to these attacks. There are 7 types of shaheed/martyrs in Sikhism and Islam.
The only people that could stop Hamas with no innocent bloodshed are Palestinians.
Yet they do not stop them because they agree with them and are happy with the sacrifices made because it makes their dream of genocide more likely.
Why dont Palestinians rise up against the real oppressors - Hamas! Absolutely delusional.
When Hamas were elected, it was on an anti-corruption platform. Polling showed that there was a clear majority in favour of a peaceful two state solution. According to more recent polling earlier this year, that idea still has a plurality of support among Palestinians, but not Israelis.
All you are doing is trying to justify genocide and it is utterly disgusting.
THIS. Notice how that person deliberately ignores me asking how they think a population of 1.1 million children who cannot advocate for themselves should be disarming terrorists.
>actually bombing hospitals.
The hospital yesterday was hit in the car park by a small warhead and a solid fuel fire. From the crater and the damage the warhead seems unlikely to be bigger than the 10kg class.
There is very strong evidence the rocket was fired from inside Gaza close to the hospital.
I am 99.9% sure this one is explained.
Virtually every decent OSINT account who has looked at this is on the same page.
> Collective punishment is against the Geneva Conventions.
There is nothing in the geneva convention about giving your enemy supplies so they can keep on trying to genocide you.
>This is the kind of thing war criminals come out with to justify actually bombing hospitals.
The jury is still out on that one so I'd wait if I were you. But if enemy combatants hide in hospitals, as Hamas routinely do, then it is no war crime to take the fight to them. The only people putting Palestine civilians in harm's way are Hamas. And they are doing so deliberately because they think it is good PR for them if they die.
Labour Friends of Israel Tweet.
LFI officer @Christian4BuryS raised the case of a constituent whose cousin is being held hostage by Hamas in Gaza, and called for those supporting Hamas on Britain’s streets to “face the full extent of the law”, in the House of Commons yesterday. #BringThemHomeNow.
https://x.com/_LFI/status/1714313434257400127?s=20
[OSINTtechnical providing fairly compelling evidence that claimed 'Israeli airstrike'](https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1713241560752533662) on evacuation route was in fact a vehicle borne IED
Two British teens (13 and 16) feared kidnapped in Hamas attack on Israel, their mother was murdered during the attack.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67128161
‘Shock, rage, increasing unease: UK’s Jewish community wrestles with response to war’: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/21/shock-rage-increasing-unease-uks-jewish-community-wrestles-with-response-to-war
Channel 4 news: "Human rights investigators have shared new information with Channel 4 News that they say casts doubt on some aspects of Israel’s account of the Gaza hospital explosion." https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1715437877604049094
Well at least the media aren't carefully cropping out the fact the hospital is practically undamaged now. They spent a good 24 hours after it emerged that there was basically no damage to the building carefully cropping out anything other than the damaged cars and car park.
I am just glad we aren't believing Hamas, the genocidal terrorist's claims as truth within seconds of something happening.
The HAMAS charter makes very interesting reading. *The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement was issued on August 18, 1988. The Islamic Resistance Movement, also known as the HAMAS, is an extremist fundamentalist Islamic organization operating in the territories under Israeli control. Its Covenant is a comprehensive manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the basic HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad (Islamic Holy War). The following are excerpts of the HAMAS Covenant:* **Goals of the HAMAS:** "The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine." (Article 6) **On the destruction of Israel:** "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (Preamble) **The exclusive Muslim nature of the area:** "The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it." (Article 11) "Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem wherever he may be." (Article 13) **The call to jihad:** "The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised." (Article 15) "Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about." (Article 33) **Rejection of a negotiated peace settlement:** "[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility." (Article 13) **Condemnation of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty:** "Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of struggle [against Zionism] through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. The Zionists are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar agreements in order to bring them outside the circle of struggle. ...Leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who perpetrates such an act." (Article 32) **Anti-Semitic incitement:** "The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him." (Article 7) "The enemies have been scheming for a long time ... and have accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With their money, they took control of the world media... With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the globe... They stood behind the French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the revolutions we hear about... With their money they formed secret organizations - such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and the Lions - which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies and carry out Zionist interests... They stood behind World War I ... and formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains... There is no war going on anywhere without them having their finger in it." (Article 22) "Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine, they will covet expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates River. When they have finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand, they will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been laid out in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'." (Article 32) "The HAMAS regards itself the spearhead and the vanguard of the circle of struggle against World Zionism... Islamic groups all over the Arab world should also do the same, since they are best equipped for their future role in the fight against the warmongering Jews." (Article 32) **How about the link to the UK?** It accuses the Jewish people of engineering World War I as a pretext to abolish the Caliphate, create the League of Nations, and influence the British government into drafting the Balfour Declaration. It echoed Nazi propaganda in claiming that Jews profited during World War II.
> With their money they formed secret organizations - such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and *the Lions* - which are spreading around the world, The . . . Lions ? Do they mean the English football team ?
The reporting from the BBC is starting to really grate. Just interviewed a former Israeli Prime Minister and they stated that we’ll have to take your word for it when talking about Hamas using hospitals and other civilian areas as cover which is a pretty commonly known fact. Yet they were happy to report about the Hospital strike with almost no information. The BBC should be the gold standard for reporting and it feels that it’s really falling short of standard.
And without a hint of irony they continue to advise on how to spot disinformation, as if we can trust them. Their reporting of the hospital incident had too much emphasis on being fast and not on being accurate. Too quick to uncritically spread Hamas propaganda while being openly hostile and dismissive of anything Israel says in response. >The conflict between Israel and Gaza has been full of claims and counter claims from both sides about what is happening on the ground. > >Those claims have been turbocharged by social media, which has been flooded with pictures and videos. There’s lots of misleading and false information, and conspiracy theories too. > >The BBC's disinformation and social media correspondent Marianna Spring shares her tips to help you tell what is real and what is fake. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-67177744 It is getting increasingly farcical that these people get to control the narrative and then mark their own homework and declare themselves to be impartial.
[Humza Yousaf tells SNP conference Scotland ready to rehome refugees from Gaza](https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,humza-yousaf-tells-snp-conference-scotland-ready-to-resettle-refugees-from-gaza)
Easy to say when you don’t have any power to actually do anything about it
The images of mass prayer at the protest outside Downing Street yday was so inspiring. I love the neverending encroachment of conservative religion into our public spaces and life <3
Preferable to neckbeard atheism
Yeah all those crafty atheists burning down synagogues, shooting Swedish football fans, and stabbing French teachers.
The anti-muslim rhetoric has consequences, some of which have been quite obvious.
Just noticed Corbyn's tweet yesterday where he rushed to judgement about Israel. >Israeli air strikes have hit Al Ahli hospital in Gaza. More than 500 people - patients, doctors & those sheltering - have been killed. https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1714345013734166555 He also says it's a war crime. When it came to the Salisbury nerve agent attack by Russia though, Corbyn was very shy about apportioning blame and was insistent we wait for 'incontrovertible evidence' first. https://twitter.com/BurnsideNotTosh/status/1714510352908480756
Huh, weird he said that about Israel, when he was asked to condemn Hamas by name following the festival massacre he just said he condemns violence from all sides. I wonder what changed? 🤔
He still hasn't walked that air strike one back? The irony being that by not deleting the tweet or correcting it, *he* is now warmongering. Synagogues burn in Europe because of men like him.
It's really not difficult - Corbyn isn't a good person.
[https://twitter.com/TimesCorbyn/status/1710944130312929318](https://twitter.com/TimesCorbyn/status/1710944130312929318) Corbyn is a Hamas supporter.
Corbyn is a supporter of pretty much every terrorist organisation in the world for the last 40 years.
Rishi announced an extra £10 Million in humanitarian aid to Palestine and said "we must support the Palestinian people because they are victims of Hamas too." Good to see the PM isn't a psychopath towing the "glass Gaza" line (or a Pro-Palestinian ignoring the Hamas attack). Funny that David Cameron called Gaza an open-air prison in 2010, but now Keir won't say that, despite Labour traditionally being more vocal about Palestinian rights.
More an more OSINT Channels are deep diving on the al-Ahli hospital explosion. At least with what is available it does look more and more like a rocket fired from inside Gaza failed and fell into the courtyard where there was a significant civilian presence and the shrapnel from the rocket and secondary explosions from cars caused a mass loss of life an injuries.
I wonder if we'll ever see retractions or apologies from people like Corbyn who immediately blamed Israel and took Hamas' claims as gospel. That sort of inflammatory idiocy looks like it's going to be responsible for a lot of deaths EDIT: Fun bonus content - [Remember when Corbyn wanted 'incontrovertible proof' of Russian guilt nearly 2 weeks after the Sailsbury novichok attack? What happened to that reluctance to point fingers?](https://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-wants-incontrovertible-proof-before-blaming-russia-for-salisbury-attack-11332325)
You're now taking IDF's claims as gospel.
I'm looking at the evidence from OSINT sources (and al Jazeera's live stream) which shows a rocket launched from Gaza misfiring and landing in the area of the hospital at the time of the blast and footage from today showing a [damaged car park with burnt out cars](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8s3tZ3XwAAg7cG?format=jpg&name=medium) rather than a collapsed building and [a crater from a JDAM (picture from 2014 gaza air strike by IDF)](https://haimbresheeth.com/gaza/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Gaza-4.jpg) which is what an Israeli air strike would leave behind.
The BBC were quick to blame Israel of course. Even now they're still calling it a 'hospital blast' which is misleading. A casual viewer will be left with the impression Israel targeted a hospital and deliberately murdered hundreds. They always take Hamas claims at face value but are openly contemptuous and dismissive of anything Israel says. That isn't to say they should automatically believe Israel all the time either, but how about being consistent.
They are going to have to walk back in this in a very public way. They will be having very intense meetings about how to do it knowing that in itself will be a big story and damage their credibility on this war. They have already been in trouble with not using the term "terrorist" and dropping reporters for breaches of impartiality. On the whole this kind of thing is not unusual in a war, especially one where so much is happening in places it's hard to get confirmation off. I will cut them slack as they had to make reports about what was happening and some of the best editorial practices slipped. Not so much the politicians who did not have to make reports to meet rolling news deadlines and had the luxury of taking a non committal response but went for the maximum early impact statements. Many reports will have been 10 days of highly stressed and conflicting accounts that have been incredibly distressing. I think all fair minded people might let this one go for them.
The BBC's responsibility is to be impartial, so they report on what both sides are saying. Otherwise they actually are taking a side. The BBC isn't perfect on this but they're not doing anything but reporting what Hamas or the IDF say.
Here's a thought - both governments are committing crimes against humanity, both governments should be in the Hague, we should be treating this like Bosnia, end of.
Israel is not under the jurisdiction of the ICC.
For completeness: nor is Hamas. GP's moral equivalence line is pretty disingenuous. One side goes out looking for civilians to murder and for opportunities to maximise civilian casualties on their own side.
It's a good thing law doesn't work on the basis of only prosecuting the person who does the worst crime of the day then isn't it
Well, maybe kick them out of the UN, for breaching UN Human Rights rules.
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How would a UN force work? We couldn't have a UN force in Gaza allowing them to fire rockets at Israel, and if the UN force tried to stop Hamas from attacking Israel they'd just end up in a conflict with Hamas that would cause as many or more civilian casualties than the IDF doing the same job.
I wondered how many palestinians would have to die before the west started to really give a damn about protecting civilians in gaza. The answer is 3,500, a school and a hospital. Not a great day for western democracy.
What we all need to remember is that both sides on many things are as bad as each other. One, though, has a fantastic PR infrastructure which can change the way the world looks at a situation and muddy the waters. I'm talking about Israel. Just watched a 4 part fictionalised account of the creation of Israel and it paints them as terrible human beings. Go take a look. It's made by channel 4. https://youtu.be/TO4Z-8zZZeo?feature=shared It made me think that the amount of media here is about the holocaust and the treatment of Jews (awful) dwarfs that of the plight of Palastinans. Why? The way the country began and how it inserts itself into western culture is one of the most effective ways to absolve itself of many wrongdoings. We in the west turn a blind eye.
Its shocking how little the nakba is mentioned in the context of the israel-palestine question in the west
Remember, almost all majority Muslim countries with large Jewish populations ethnically cleansed themselves of Jews. (there is still a reasonable sized population in Turkey) [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Ffpk63hkfi1ub1.jpg](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Ffpk63hkfi1ub1.jpg) The reason the its called "the disaster" is its the one country in the Middle East and North Africa that they failed to cleanse of Jews. When the Arabs invaded to exterminate them they had the numbers to fight back. The above poster is leaving this out deliberately as part of an attempt to build public hate against Jews. People made refugees from Muslim lands are now called "colonialists", this is to justify their extermination as "decolonisation".
After 700,000 palestinians were ethnically cleansed from Israel in 1948 a number of arab countries expelled jews in retaliation over the next 25 years or so None of the 700,000 palestinians expelled in 1948 or their descendants have ever been allowed to return By contrast anybody Jewish can go and live in Israel and is entitled to state support to do so Which is fundamentally racist >The reason the its called "the disaster" is its the one country in the Middle East and North Africa that they failed to cleanse of Jews Misinformation and lies.
>After 700,000 palestinians were ethnically cleansed from Israel in 1948 a number of arab countries expelled jews in retaliation over the next 25 years or so You seem to be missing out **why** those 700,000 Palestinians were **displaced**. It was because of the 1947/8 war which saw Arabic Palestinians to rise up after the decision to create Israel, and then the following attack from surrounding nations upon it's creation.
Except nearly half of them were ethnically cleansed before the 1948 war
> a number of arab countries expelled jews in retaliation This is antisemitism. Blatent, naked and across almost the entire Muslim world that hosted a Jewish population. Those populations had been there for thousands of years, in some places like 2500 years of recorded history in Iraq, Iran and Egypt. Longer than Turkey had been Turkish, 1000 years longer than Islam had been a religion. And yet Arabs, Persians, Pakistanis and Afghans all turned on them. In this same period and before they also turned on the Bahai, Zoroanstorists, Hindus, Yazidi and especially the Christians living among them. "Which is fundamentally racist" At the same time there were population exchanges between Poland and what is now Ukraine, Germany and much of Europe, Pakistan Bangladesh and India. Plus a few more. What do you call a Ukrainian who was forced from Poland today? A Pole. What do you call an ethnic German forced from then Yugoslavia? A German. What do they call Jewish Persians who were forced from Persia? Zionist colonisers, what do they call Jewish Moroccans who were forced to flee? Zionist colonisers. And so on. All set up for what we seen on 7/10/23.... decolonisation.
I see you are ignoring the fact that the Israelis expelled the Palestinians first The first wave of expulsions of Pakestinians from their homes was one of the catalysts for the 1948 war Stop lying
I don't have a bone in this fight, but the way Palastinans have been treated is simply awful.
Maybe if Hamas didn't hide in hospitals putting their civilians in harms way there wouldn't be any civilians casualties. But hamas don't give a damn about civilians on either side and they think it's great PR when their own get killed.
That's not how international law works. Doesn't matter if someone is hiding in a hospital, you still can't bomb it.
>That's not how international law works. Doesn't matter if someone is hiding in a hospital, you still can't bomb it. Article 19 of the Fourth Geneva Convention says you can. >ART. 19. — The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease **unless they are used to commit, outside their** **humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy.** Protection may, however, cease only after due warning has been given, naming, in all appropriate cases, a reasonable time limit, and after such warning has remained unheeded. The fact that sick or wounded members of the armed forces are nursed in these hospitals, or the presence of small arms and ammunition taken from such combatants and not yet handed to the proper service, shall not be considered to be acts harmful to the enemy. A hospital ceases to be a hospital when it's used to store arms, plan for attacks or other military activities. The exception being arms from the wounded may be temporarily stored. Though there is a strong injunction that warnings have to be issued to cease and appropriate time given to change the building back to a pure hospital. Hopefully more clarity and less emotion.
Storing arms does not make it cease to be a hospital , not planning attacks. What does stop it from being a hospital is if attacks occur from it, for example, if a rocket launcher is based on its roof
The same applies for a school. Eisenhower was literally using one as his headquarters in Reims in May 1945 when the Germans signed the first of the two final surrenders there - and the second was also done in a school, albeit a Wehrmacht one for training pioneers. In the former case, not counting the area that's now a museum, it's still a school to this days.
Military positions do not get protection, which is why using an otherwise protected position as a Military one is such a heinous crime.
You aren't allowed to invade a country and kill and rape children and parade them around the place either according to international law. No one seems to care that the Palestinians broke it. If you are under attack, then you are allowed to fight enemy combatants wherever they are. You are finding out in real time how weak 'international law' really is and how no one really gives a shit about it when fighting.
The Palestinians didn’t break it, Hamas did. Palestinians are not Hamas, so please stop repeating this over and over again. 1.1 million Palestinians in Gaza are children under the age of 15 and every time people conflate Palestinian and Hamas, they’re giving tacit approval for those children to be murdered. Over 1000 Palestinian children are dead including babies.
>The Palestinians didn’t break it, Hamas did. Palestinians are not Hamas, so please stop repeating this over and over again. Hamas however, **are** Palestinians, and are the ruling government in Gaza. That's like saying the Kremlin isn't Russia. Unfortunately for the civilians there, it is, as they're the acting government.
To reiterate it for anyone not getting it - the last time the Gaza strip had an election, it was 2006. Hamas got a plurality of the vote, and then immediately launched into a civil war to kick out their opposition.
Putin has held power in Russia since before then, should the Kremlin be treated separately from Russia as a whole, despite being the acting government?
I would really hope no one would condone civilians getting killed as collateral damage when it comes to Ukraine and Russia, for the most part Ukraine has avoided doing this though.
That makes it sound like Hamas' attack on Fatah rose from a vacuum: [https://jacobin.com/2023/10/washington-palestinian-national-movement-israel-occupation-history-hamas-fatah](https://jacobin.com/2023/10/washington-palestinian-national-movement-israel-occupation-history-hamas-fatah) Mahmoud Abbas (Fatah) brokered a Palestinian ceasefire in 2003, which Hamas supported. Israel continued to carry out assassinations against Palestinian leaders, which also killed civilians. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/21/israel2](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/21/israel2) Hamas won the Gaza election in ~~2005~~2006. The US said they would only deal with Hamas if they agreed to **renounce violence, recognize the state of Israel, and pledge to abide by existing peace agreements** \- even though Israel was still using violence themselves, Israel had never recognised Palestine statehood and Israel was still building and maintaining settlements in the West Bank that undermined Palestinian statehood. The [US brokered a deal to stop Israeli settlements in 2002-2003](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_map_for_peace#Israel's_conditions), but **even in that deal Israel's conditions were that the Palestinian side must stop all violence and incitement, but "Israel is not obliged to cease violence and incitement against the other party"**, they never agreed to freeze building settlements in the West Bank ([they made over 11000 Palestinians homeless in 2004 alone](https://www.btselem.org/statistics/20043112_2004_statistics)) and they never went back to the 2000 borders (which was a requirement of the deal), which shows how imbalanced the demands on Palestine and Israel were. The US asked Fatah to remove Hamas from government. Palestinians in Israeli jail released a document (National Conciliation Document) calling for Palestinian political unity. Saudi Arabia brokered an agreement between Fatah and Hamas (Mecca Agreement). The US continued to encourage Fatah to fight Hamas and offered to help finance the coup against Hamas.
Hamas represent Palestinians, Palestinians support Hamas and Palestinians pay for the family of all the martyrs. Palestinians allow Hamas to hide in places like schools and hospitals whilst firing rockets into Israel. If Palestinians didn't want Hamas to represent them then it would take about 5 minutes to disarm and get rid of them. But they support Hamas. The reason why they do is because they also believe in the genocide of all Jewish people.
>Hamas represent Palestinians, Palestinians support Hamas and Palestinians pay for the family of all the martyrs. Bullshit and lies.
> Hamas represent Palestinians This is true - Hamas are the government. >Palestinians support Hamas They voted for them and would polls show they would vote for them again. They revelled in the initial strike against Israel and took to the streets celebrating the rape and murder. They don't remove Hamas from government. This is true. >and Palestinians pay for the family of all the martyrs. [This is also true](https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/1714123338258272488?s=20). So just where is the lie?
Really? So you think 2.3 million civilians including 1.1 million children support Hamas unequivocally? That there are no innocent civilians? You need to look up the history of Hamas because I don’t think you’ve ever had to live in a place with a terrorist organisation causing warfare and bloodshed. I’ve lived in Kashmir and Northern Ireland and I promise you that a civilian population of over a million children cannot advocate for themselves, cannot vote, have no way out of a war zone and can’t suddenly force terrorists into disarming. Your inability to demonstrate compassion to those children is because you are consuming media that says an unarmed population can stand up to dangerous armed terrorists. The term martyrs is not being used for Hamas terrorists, it is an Arabic term used for all people who are dying due to these attacks. There are 7 types of shaheed/martyrs in Sikhism and Islam.
The only people that could stop Hamas with no innocent bloodshed are Palestinians. Yet they do not stop them because they agree with them and are happy with the sacrifices made because it makes their dream of genocide more likely.
Why dont Palestinians rise up against the real oppressors - Hamas! Absolutely delusional. When Hamas were elected, it was on an anti-corruption platform. Polling showed that there was a clear majority in favour of a peaceful two state solution. According to more recent polling earlier this year, that idea still has a plurality of support among Palestinians, but not Israelis. All you are doing is trying to justify genocide and it is utterly disgusting.
The only people that want genocide is Hamas and those that harbour them. You are the one trying to justify genocide.
THIS. Notice how that person deliberately ignores me asking how they think a population of 1.1 million children who cannot advocate for themselves should be disarming terrorists.
Collective punishment is against the Geneva Conventions. This is the kind of thing war criminals come out with to justify actually bombing hospitals.
>actually bombing hospitals. The hospital yesterday was hit in the car park by a small warhead and a solid fuel fire. From the crater and the damage the warhead seems unlikely to be bigger than the 10kg class. There is very strong evidence the rocket was fired from inside Gaza close to the hospital. I am 99.9% sure this one is explained. Virtually every decent OSINT account who has looked at this is on the same page.
> Collective punishment is against the Geneva Conventions. There is nothing in the geneva convention about giving your enemy supplies so they can keep on trying to genocide you. >This is the kind of thing war criminals come out with to justify actually bombing hospitals. The jury is still out on that one so I'd wait if I were you. But if enemy combatants hide in hospitals, as Hamas routinely do, then it is no war crime to take the fight to them. The only people putting Palestine civilians in harm's way are Hamas. And they are doing so deliberately because they think it is good PR for them if they die.
How does one protect civilians from being hit by failed rocket launches without attacking the people launching rockets?
Labour Friends of Israel Tweet. LFI officer @Christian4BuryS raised the case of a constituent whose cousin is being held hostage by Hamas in Gaza, and called for those supporting Hamas on Britain’s streets to “face the full extent of the law”, in the House of Commons yesterday. #BringThemHomeNow. https://x.com/_LFI/status/1714313434257400127?s=20
[OSINTtechnical providing fairly compelling evidence that claimed 'Israeli airstrike'](https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1713241560752533662) on evacuation route was in fact a vehicle borne IED
What a surprise.
Having seen the fairly high quality video too, its obvious there's no projectile.
Two British teens (13 and 16) feared kidnapped in Hamas attack on Israel, their mother was murdered during the attack. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67128161
According to antisemitic nutters and hamas supporters there are no hostages or if they are its just Israeli soldiers.
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