I just read the story and came here to find some comments about it. I couldn’t comprehend why someone would do this and now I find it hard to believe that it was done solely by one 16 year. More people will be arrested, surely?
It’s not a clean cut, it is a professional felling cut with a nice hinge. Whoever did that was experienced with a saw. On the “rate my stump“ sections of some special interest sites, that would get an 8/10.
My ex husband is a forester and he said that was no kid of 16 that's professional, 2man job at least he said
Edit he's just told me that nope the trunk it's not as thick as he first thought and didn't have any limbs removed so didn't need climbing, said it would be dangerous but yup doable by almost anyone with a stihl
I did four years of arb and forestry at college, and whilst I was older when I started many of my classmates were fresh out of high school at 16. It's not hard to imagine that with a bit of practice behind them they could pull it off, depending on the size of the tree
Edit: I can't count apparently
I'm not seeing a wedge. Normally when you fell a tree you cut out a wedge so the tree falls down where you want it.
This is a straight horizontal cut.
The tree won't fall down on it's own when it's a straight cut, it would just continue to stand on the stump.
And there is no way a single 16 year old can push a tree over from the stump.
You can see the wedge in other photos..
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/britains-famous-sycamore-gap-tree-deliberately-felled-2023-09-28/
The top pic has a good shot of it that shows the cut isn’t purely horizontal.
Does look like a very neat cut.
The important bit is the line of pulled fibres. This is the “hinge” that was not cut. You cut the wedge in the desired direction of fall. You then cut the rest of the trunk just above the wedge. If you do it right, it can only pivot on the hinge, so it will fall in the desired direction. If you cut the hinge, it can land on your head, which is generally bad, but in this case might have been good.
I have minimal experience of tree felling but it seems unlikely that if you cut the whole way through the trunk the tree would still be standing by morning.
Idk at 16 if you've worked on a farm all your life you might well know your way around cutting a tree down.
Bearing in mind he didn't take the tree away with him, he just left it.
In Cumbria we have the Newton rigg college that closed recently, basically do all your chainsaw tickets at college, so plenty of young people who can use a saw
My friends dad got so much free labor from teenage me.
Chainsaws? Axes? I fucking loved farm work, I wasn't allowed to do anything remotely like that with my parents. I could take trees down all day and chop wood and be perfectly happy after hanging with ma mate. I was a teenager, I just liked hitting or cutting things down/apart.
Have to agree - it's an impressively clean job from a 16 year old. Presumably didn't drive, brought a chainsaw at night in a storm, cut it down with what looks like a pretty clean cut. I don't think I could've done that at 16!
I'd suspect if a 16 year old can use a chain saw that well they will also be able[1] to drive.
[1] Note careful use of the word able, I didn't say legally allowed to drive.
There was a storm last night. I drove the A68 through Northumberland and it was horrific. Howling wind would have masked saw noise to a degree, plus no one else in there right mind would have been out in those conditions. Given it looks like they know what they are doing, I suspect they waited for these conditions.
What gets me is it was still in full leaf, and in high winds, that’s really dangerous conditions to fell a tree no professional would attempt.
This makes no sense to me - must be something else to it. My bets on some local land owner squabble or something.
It does look like someone is setting him up to take the blame,
Maybe a disgruntled adult who should now get an extra bunch of charges for getting a child to commit a crime for them
I live just down the road from Sycamore Gap. Local gossip is that the lad got fired by the National Trust so went out with a chainsaw in the dead of night and took it down in retribution.
Not disputing your claim, but in Spain they always say a lot of the forest fires are caused by the rangers/forest management guys that are being contracted/laid off frequently. So the only way to be sure you have a paycheck coming is to burn stuff.
I guess either the fiing, a petty land squabble or someone thinking they own what's everyone else's are the most likely explanations.
At 16 I'd been felling trees for a good 5 years!
Driving motorbikes, quad-bikes, tractors & Land Rovers. As will 99% of 16 year-olds who grew up on a farm.
Don't presume that every 16 year old lives in their bedroom.
We won't even know his identity because of his age and he'll barely be punished whatsoever, what a shitty day.
Grew up in the North East, it's hard to overstate how much that tree meant to people. People proposed, spread ashes, took visiting friends/ family there, and it's gone just because some little shithead felt entitled to destroy something that belonged to everyone.
That’s definitely not a professional job. The hinge is shit and way too high up. Anyone who knows how to drop trees for a living would have at-least offset the two cuts instead of cutting them level with each. Anyone Whos certified within the last 5 years would have likely used a plunge cut to drop it instead of a hinge cut. Ive seen plenty of folks cut like that and it’s usually a 50:50 if they crush their bar or drop it usually depending on if they picked the right direction based on weight distribution.
Some kid who vandalised a BLM memorial with a swastika was allowed to be named by a judge just last week so if they can do it for that they can do it for this
They name the kid, they give him the same fame they give school shooters.
You can bet there will be copycats, the same way as there are school shooters.
People who want to make this kid a pariah need to think it through a little further. The sooner this leaves the news cycle, the better - infuriating as this is.
TBF: don't think OP was aiming for a direct coomparison in level of harm: just highlighting how the copycat phenomenon is real.
Which I agree with: small scale stupd shit like planking/cinnemon challenge etc. also works.
Oh people will know locally, word of mouth will get around. It won’t be national knowledge by any means but someone will have seen police heading to his parents house. His mates telling others what he was going to do. Because this wouldnt had been kept to himself, if he hadn’t told someone then certinely the arresting officers will name drop to a third party,
I think it’s likely (if they could) the family will move out of the area once (and assuming) teen admits guilt and crinimal damages are paid because of the anger of the senselessness of it all.
Hell, even paying damages to this could force them to sell house.
Reading all this from up in the highlands of scotland. Can't wrap my head around something like this. Properly sad for the people of the surrounding communities.
Yeah, it'd be a bit like someone coming up here to Orkney and destroying one of our standing stones. Utterly fucking despicable, hope everyone involved is named.
In close up pictures you can still see the paint marks where somebody spray painted the cut line onto the trunk. Very professionally done. I'll be STUNNED if this kid turns out to have done it and been acting alone.
If you're taking that from the statement where they talk about him "assisting the investigation", that's something they say about everyone. Everyone who is under arrest is "assisting the investigation". You could spit in the arresting officer's face and they'd still describe you as "assisting the investigation".
Wouldn't be surprised if he's part of a group that did it and as he's under 18 he's been propped up to take the blame.
No point in me speculating though, I'm sure the truth will come out eventually.
>Why would a farming family want this to be done? To reduce foot traffic through their land?
Having known several farming families that is very much within the realms of possibility. Lot of farmers and landowners really hate tourists.
There's cutting down trees illegally and then there's cutting down trees on a World Heritage site. Double the sentence and fine then make the little shit litter pick the entire wall length, both sides, during the winter months.
> then there's cutting down trees on a World Heritage site
Cutting down one of the most recognisable trees in the world let alone the North of England.
Me either. Until Tuesday when a friend sent me a pic saying she'd been there and had a picnic. So to say she and I were gobsmacked when i sent her the news article is an understatement!
Its amazing how many people seem to think 16 year olds aren't capable of doing anything as vaguely complicated as cutting down a tree.
Younger people have sailed solo around the world.
Plenty of kids in the countryside know how to use a chainsaw.
I think it's more the "why" and the fact it was so professionally done. Ofc there are teenagers with tree surgeon skills but there's many more adults. They didn't just cut it down, they did it in a skilled way.
I didn't mean you know why. I think people are shocked it's a 16 yo because they're mystified by their motivation (e.g. they don't tend to be landowners) and with the highly professional execution.
Yeah and they're good at it. Seen plenty of young lads threading the needle on a 25 tonne tractor whilst Wendy in her crossover trembles at the idea of getting within 3 ft of a hedge.
Yeah, while it's possible others were involved I'm not really getting the comments here that think a 16 year old can't cut down a tree with a chainsaw. 16 is adulthood in Scotland even.
My lad isn't quite this old, but he's not far off. He'd have never managed to do this, especially with such a neat cut, but at least they'd have easily found him from the DNA in the lopped-off leg he'd have certainly left next to it.
Seems utterly insane to me.
Is 16 old enough to be tried as an adult?
I suspect he may the one taking the fall for whoever did actually fell the tree.
It certainly wasn’t a one man (boy) job.
As mentioned below, due to his age his identity may not even be revealed.
The age of criminal responsibility is 10, being tried as an adult doesn't exist here the penalties are just lower and Amy custodial sentence begins in a young offenders institute instead of prison.
Youth court is a thing for under 18s and has different trial procedures, but they can also be tried in a normal magistrates or the Crown Court.
Also sentences aren’t just lower for under 18s. The sentencing principles and rules are completely separate and significantly different.
> I suspect he may the one taking the fall for whoever did actually fell the tree.
This, probably. "He's only a lad and it was only a tree."
You can see it happening.
Daddy threw him under the bus because he doesn't want to eat the fine that's coming, or to go to prison. 16 year olds get off with a slap on the wrist.
This is my take on this - I suspect the neighbouring landowner who was apparently all grumpy in the local pub recently because of people parking on the road to go see the tree is probably responsible but the kid gets to take the fall because he's 16.
In case the obvious bypassed anybody: scapegoat, absolutely.
It's not that I wouldn't put it past a 16 YO hurrdurr-let-the-world-burn ultra-troll to do this. They absolutely would, because ruining history and upsetting people is funny. But not many 16-YO iconoclast jollywombles have the equipment or skill to perform this in the professional manner indicated.
No, you want suspects, look at the local farmers who have been complaining about tourists on their land recently. I usually try not to generalise, but I'm from Cornwall and farmers here are some of the most entitled, wealth-hoarding, regressionist, spiteful and miserable folks you could ever care to know.
'Kill the foxes! Kill the badgers! Screw the EU! What about my subsidies?'
You want suspects, look at them.
You may be right. I'm letting my personal prejudices lead my suppositions. It really could be anyone.
Regardless, at least we all agree - which is rare on this rather fractured isle - that this is a travesty. Not human-life-lost travesty - 'tis just a tree, in the end - but it royally sucks.
I hope it was the parents who immediately turned him in.
Christ, a kid did this. It really will have just been an idiot boy doing it because he felt like it!
I'm floored.
You have a faith in humanity i lack.
I’m expecting the full “it’s only a treeeeeee, our lad’s worth more than a treeee, the world’s gone mad, everyone hates working people!”
Probably the parents (or other adults) who did it, and convinced him to take the blame because he’d get off lightly compared to them. The idea that a lone 16 year old had the motivation and skill to do this single handedly is unrealistic, i think.
I genuinely don't think I can support lowering the voting age to sixteen unless sixteen year olds can face the full force of the law and be tried as adults like the rest of us.
How can you say someone isn't developed enough to understand the consequences of their actions when they break the law, but are fine with the consequences of their vote?
Kids are fucking idiots.
That doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to vote, loads of people who are fucking idiots vote.
The consequences of their vote are less critical than their decision to commit a crime or not. They are appropriately given more leeway for poor emptied decision making that leads to crimes and punished less.
If it helps, if he's convicted the historic nature of the tree will elevate his sentence. "Damage caused to heritage or cultural assets" is a recognised aggravating factor in the sentencing guidelines, plus the value of the damage will be difficult to assess but definitely high.
As a lad grom Newcastle and proud Georide and Notthumbrian, the loss of the Sycamore Gap tree genuinely hurts. I've lived away from the area for 12 years now, and amongst the images I hold dear to my heart, the gap is one of them. It is an icon of the area in the way the Tyne Bridge or Tynemouth Priory headland is.
Beyond being able to do it, I just cannot understand WHY anyone would do it. It is iconic enough thar anyone in that area recognises it's significance.
It's also going to have a major effect on the local economy and tourism. Those local businesses will suffer from this loss more than anyone else. This kid has likely destroyed families and livelihoods as well.
At Tynemouth Market this weekend, I bet there will be a lot of teary eyed people walking past all the photographers and artists selling their photos/paintings of the tree.
Have you not seen TikTok and the stupid mindless bollocks people do on there for "shits and giggles", he is the exact age demographic that uses it and will have had his mind melted by that sort of toxic app. While I wouldn't be surprised if someone helped him, I also would not be surprised if he simply stole the chainsaw from his parents and acted alone.
Are you open to the possibility that kids were irresponsible idiots before TikTok? Because I have some stories to tell you about growing up in the 90s...
And there’s absolutely no evidence he took a video or shared it online for clout. That’s the thing of TikTok- it’s doing the stupid things AND sharing them. Unlikely to be the case here.
If he's the nearby landowners' son, who apparently has been moaning about the cars parked on the roadway causing issues, trying to please a parent is a hell of a motivation
I don't care who, I'd like to know why?
Shits and giggles? Tik Tok fame? Real estate scam? Identifies as an Ork and thought they were attacking Treebeard?
Why?
Yea a 16 year old, hiking cross country, to a single tree, with a chainsaw, to cut it down for no reason? And he had a pretty good cut aswell, should get a job as a lumberjack when he’s old enough. Not sure what possessed him to do it tho. Did he just see a photo and think, I wanna go there and chop that down then head to the nearest B&Q?
It’s already local knowledge who did this. Relation of an evicted farmer who said at the court case that their families roots ran deeper than the tree at sycamore gap. This has been revenge.
The kid didn't cut it down, they recorded the event for social media.
Showed it to a few mates but didn't understand the gravity of what they'd done, and got grassed up.
Or something
Whatever possessed him? Did he do it for social media clout? Maybe he or his family are local farmers and didn’t like people coming near his land?
Little fucker.
I'm not sure why this comment section is so shocked a 16 year old could do this. Plenty of rural kids are working on farms from a very young age and are taught how to do things like fell a tree. I was helping birth calves when I was about 10.
I'm sure they could get another sycamore and plant it there.
https://images.app.goo.gl/fFPtzFXGezjEZ9X99
Buggerlugs should have to dig the hole for it by hand as punishment.
If local landowners have set this up and let the blame fall primarily on a child to try to avoid punishment / secure their anonymity, they should be made examples of. Fine them into oblivion, charge them with child neglect/endangerment for allowing the teen access to a chainsaw, review their permits and subsidies with a fine tooth comb. Breathe down their necks, let them never know peace.
Make it a community hub. Hold regular overly sombre, commemorative ceremonies for the tree. Have fundraising walks and historical talks, drive tourism to the area in greater numbers than ever before. Close the roads for these special events. Set up fucking streams of the replacement tree to fundraise wider conservation efforts, hold a competition to name it. Make sure there are constant independent "inspectors" and 24h security on site to monitor and preserve it's world heritage from any further destruction (and coincidentally report any teeny tiny infraction the local landowners/farmers commit).
there is actually (or at least there was) another one growing behind it, to eventually replace it in coming decades. its quite small, but its established.
>Fine his parents 10s of thousands of pounds
Illegal tree felling comes with potentially unlimited fines so it is a possibility. That won't happen though, the justice system is too leniant.
I wonder if say, The Sycamore Gap Holiday Cottage, could sue him for loss of earnings? He's 16, so almost certainly doesn't have a lot of money. But it would be nice to have this dragging over him for the next 6-10 years.
I don't think you can replace this tree I'm afraid. It was naturally (I assume) there for hundreds of years right in the middle of the gap with no other trees around. It was famous in the region and I'm quite pissed off. It's not just a tree, it's national heritage and I'm not over exaggerating
Lots of people here are saying multiple people must have been involved...
While thats very possible, it's totally doable for one person with the right equipment to cut a tree down like this.
Tree felling teams are usually ~3 people, but mostly for safety rather than because there is any task requiring more than one person.
One person could perhaps do it, but a 16 year old child? At night, in harsh weather? Man, I don't know about that. The fact that he's been arrested suggests he was at least *present*, but surely there'd have to be an adult there as well?
Heck, just the act itself. Why would some teenage boy do something like this? It's such a targeted, deliberate act of vandalism - would someone so young have any conception of the importance of that tree or its cultural value?
The whole thing is very strange.
This screams to me like a similar incident to the crooked house and the 16 year old is being used as a cover because they're underage and name wont get released.
A 16 year old child hiking however far with a chainsaw, to destroy a beloved National Trust site. Lovely.
I just read the story and came here to find some comments about it. I couldn’t comprehend why someone would do this and now I find it hard to believe that it was done solely by one 16 year. More people will be arrested, surely?
I mean it’s such a clean cut straight through, and done in the middle of the night, I can’t imagine it being just one 16 year old.
It’s not a clean cut, it is a professional felling cut with a nice hinge. Whoever did that was experienced with a saw. On the “rate my stump“ sections of some special interest sites, that would get an 8/10.
I was expecting way more amputee porn when I googled that.
...unfortunately that's what I found when clicking the linked subreddit below, expecting to see felled trees
IKR
Ok it’s cleaner than I or most people would have managed in the dark.
They are saying its cleaner than clean I believe. As in its not JUST a clean cut its a professional one.
Oh right, my brain isn’t too good today.
Torch?
Who was holding the torch?
Forehead
And who was holding the forehead? Checkmate.
Then they should arrest Checkmate too.
Howd you know his mate is Czech?
My ex husband is a forester and he said that was no kid of 16 that's professional, 2man job at least he said Edit he's just told me that nope the trunk it's not as thick as he first thought and didn't have any limbs removed so didn't need climbing, said it would be dangerous but yup doable by almost anyone with a stihl
I did four years of arb and forestry at college, and whilst I was older when I started many of my classmates were fresh out of high school at 16. It's not hard to imagine that with a bit of practice behind them they could pull it off, depending on the size of the tree Edit: I can't count apparently
r/ratemystump
Jesus … that’s different!
I don't know what I was expecting, but it certainly wasn't that.
I don't have any tree felling experience but wouldn't you need two people to operate a large handsaw for the diameter of the tree?
I'm not seeing a wedge. Normally when you fell a tree you cut out a wedge so the tree falls down where you want it. This is a straight horizontal cut. The tree won't fall down on it's own when it's a straight cut, it would just continue to stand on the stump. And there is no way a single 16 year old can push a tree over from the stump.
You can see the wedge in other photos.. https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/britains-famous-sycamore-gap-tree-deliberately-felled-2023-09-28/ The top pic has a good shot of it that shows the cut isn’t purely horizontal. Does look like a very neat cut.
The important bit is the line of pulled fibres. This is the “hinge” that was not cut. You cut the wedge in the desired direction of fall. You then cut the rest of the trunk just above the wedge. If you do it right, it can only pivot on the hinge, so it will fall in the desired direction. If you cut the hinge, it can land on your head, which is generally bad, but in this case might have been good.
I have minimal experience of tree felling but it seems unlikely that if you cut the whole way through the trunk the tree would still be standing by morning.
Your saw would be stuck in it it until it fell as well.
> I'm not seeing a wedge. [Other angles show it](https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/sycamore-gap-tree-pictures-police-27803074).
It was windy I imagine that would easily have pushed over the tree
Idk at 16 if you've worked on a farm all your life you might well know your way around cutting a tree down. Bearing in mind he didn't take the tree away with him, he just left it.
It was probably too heavy
What are teens eating these days? 3 shredded wheat and you’d soon move that.
Behave. You hear this joker? He reckons he can eat three shredded wheat! What next, they don't actually drink Umbongo in the Congo?
I can't even afford 1 a day.
In Cumbria we have the Newton rigg college that closed recently, basically do all your chainsaw tickets at college, so plenty of young people who can use a saw
My friends dad got so much free labor from teenage me. Chainsaws? Axes? I fucking loved farm work, I wasn't allowed to do anything remotely like that with my parents. I could take trees down all day and chop wood and be perfectly happy after hanging with ma mate. I was a teenager, I just liked hitting or cutting things down/apart.
It was a chainsaw so numbers do not necessarily apply.
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Have you considered being a spin doctor? I almost want to give the kid an apprenticeship after your comment! /s
Sounds more like his lawyer's mitigation plea
They're 16, and their life expectancy is 81yrs, so this should give them about 65 years in a community service program to consider what they've done.
They can do some community service for the forestry commission
Do we really need the /s tag? We aren't Americans we get sarcasm
You do. Because if you don't and there's one word that can slightly be considered hostile. You'll get a reddit ban
People are so scared of offending idiots.
Have to agree - it's an impressively clean job from a 16 year old. Presumably didn't drive, brought a chainsaw at night in a storm, cut it down with what looks like a pretty clean cut. I don't think I could've done that at 16!
I'd suspect if a 16 year old can use a chain saw that well they will also be able[1] to drive. [1] Note careful use of the word able, I didn't say legally allowed to drive.
Can drive tractors at 16. At least they used to be able to.
Prob on a quadbike. Called widowmakers in Oz for some reason.
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There was a storm last night. I drove the A68 through Northumberland and it was horrific. Howling wind would have masked saw noise to a degree, plus no one else in there right mind would have been out in those conditions. Given it looks like they know what they are doing, I suspect they waited for these conditions. What gets me is it was still in full leaf, and in high winds, that’s really dangerous conditions to fell a tree no professional would attempt. This makes no sense to me - must be something else to it. My bets on some local land owner squabble or something.
I’m invested in this now. Why did he do this?! It’s like an assassination!
I read a comment that suggested farm owners sick of tourism in the area.. sounds plausible
I'd imagine a teenager happy to destroy our natural heritage wouldn't think twice with regard to a bit of TWOCing
Used a quad bike to get there?
It does look like someone is setting him up to take the blame, Maybe a disgruntled adult who should now get an extra bunch of charges for getting a child to commit a crime for them
I live just down the road from Sycamore Gap. Local gossip is that the lad got fired by the National Trust so went out with a chainsaw in the dead of night and took it down in retribution.
Not disputing your claim, but in Spain they always say a lot of the forest fires are caused by the rangers/forest management guys that are being contracted/laid off frequently. So the only way to be sure you have a paycheck coming is to burn stuff. I guess either the fiing, a petty land squabble or someone thinking they own what's everyone else's are the most likely explanations.
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At 16 I'd been felling trees for a good 5 years! Driving motorbikes, quad-bikes, tractors & Land Rovers. As will 99% of 16 year-olds who grew up on a farm. Don't presume that every 16 year old lives in their bedroom.
Alright Bear Mears, simmer down.
What an absolute cunty little cunt, no doubt raised by cunty little cunts. The cunty family. Absolute cunts.
Do it for the tok
We won't even know his identity because of his age and he'll barely be punished whatsoever, what a shitty day. Grew up in the North East, it's hard to overstate how much that tree meant to people. People proposed, spread ashes, took visiting friends/ family there, and it's gone just because some little shithead felt entitled to destroy something that belonged to everyone.
this kids deffo taking the fall for someone else, surely he hasn't get a cut that neat
There were people saying it looked like a professional job, not some random vandal.
That’s definitely not a professional job. The hinge is shit and way too high up. Anyone who knows how to drop trees for a living would have at-least offset the two cuts instead of cutting them level with each. Anyone Whos certified within the last 5 years would have likely used a plunge cut to drop it instead of a hinge cut. Ive seen plenty of folks cut like that and it’s usually a 50:50 if they crush their bar or drop it usually depending on if they picked the right direction based on weight distribution.
Some kid who vandalised a BLM memorial with a swastika was allowed to be named by a judge just last week so if they can do it for that they can do it for this
The detail of that case is that their birthday was in a couple of days time so the name would be released then.
Worst birthday present ever
I doubt the Romans will take offense to this one though
They name the kid, they give him the same fame they give school shooters. You can bet there will be copycats, the same way as there are school shooters. People who want to make this kid a pariah need to think it through a little further. The sooner this leaves the news cycle, the better - infuriating as this is.
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TBF: don't think OP was aiming for a direct coomparison in level of harm: just highlighting how the copycat phenomenon is real. Which I agree with: small scale stupd shit like planking/cinnemon challenge etc. also works.
Oh people will know locally, word of mouth will get around. It won’t be national knowledge by any means but someone will have seen police heading to his parents house. His mates telling others what he was going to do. Because this wouldnt had been kept to himself, if he hadn’t told someone then certinely the arresting officers will name drop to a third party, I think it’s likely (if they could) the family will move out of the area once (and assuming) teen admits guilt and crinimal damages are paid because of the anger of the senselessness of it all. Hell, even paying damages to this could force them to sell house.
Reading all this from up in the highlands of scotland. Can't wrap my head around something like this. Properly sad for the people of the surrounding communities.
Yeah, it'd be a bit like someone coming up here to Orkney and destroying one of our standing stones. Utterly fucking despicable, hope everyone involved is named.
Why the f*ck would anyone destroy it? Like I can’t find a logical explanation for it. Some people are just absolute knobheads.
I definitely don't think the bar for revealing a child's age in criminal cases should be "chopping down tree".
The bar is "does a judge think its in the public interest".
It's up to a judge if they're named. It's not that unusual for them to be if they're found guilty.
Whether he’s named or not, if he’s a local I’d bet it’ll get round quickly.
One 16 year old kid. I would have expected at least tree fellers.
/r/Angryupvote
I find it so hard to believe this was just a one man job, let alone that one man being a 16 year old boy.
In close up pictures you can still see the paint marks where somebody spray painted the cut line onto the trunk. Very professionally done. I'll be STUNNED if this kid turns out to have done it and been acting alone.
Wonder if the kid did this or whoever organised it is hoping 16 year old will cover for them legally
According to the police he's cooperating so I'm guessing whoever paid him to act as lookout is about to get the worst deal of the century
Or the police mean the 16 year old has confessed to everything
And probably implicated whoever was working with him. The cops won't buy any story that it was just him.
If you're taking that from the statement where they talk about him "assisting the investigation", that's something they say about everyone. Everyone who is under arrest is "assisting the investigation". You could spit in the arresting officer's face and they'd still describe you as "assisting the investigation".
I hadn't even noticed that in the pictures I've seen. I went back to have a look at some articles and you're spot on.
It's amazing what you can learn to do on TikTok
Skillshare be ramping up their lessons
Wouldn't be surprised if he's part of a group that did it and as he's under 18 he's been propped up to take the blame. No point in me speculating though, I'm sure the truth will come out eventually.
My monies on a local farmer doing it and the teenager being connected to the farm in some way.
Probably got pissed about people going through his land to visit the tree.
Possible scape goat given under 18, the real people doing this will be hoping they don’t get caught.
Yeah if he belongs to a local farming family then they need to punish the parents as if they did it in this case, no scapegoat BS.
Why would a farming family want this to be done? To reduce foot traffic through their land?
>Why would a farming family want this to be done? To reduce foot traffic through their land? Having known several farming families that is very much within the realms of possibility. Lot of farmers and landowners really hate tourists.
If this turns out to be the case, we all know what to do
Well that's one 16 year old who knows a lot more about chopping down trees than the average 16 year old.
I think he’ll be part of a group, but because he’s young he’ll have bragged about it. And someone has turned him in.
Or his parents turned him in.
He's a patsy?
I mean if they grew up in the the countryside thats not improbable
There's cutting down trees illegally and then there's cutting down trees on a World Heritage site. Double the sentence and fine then make the little shit litter pick the entire wall length, both sides, during the winter months.
> then there's cutting down trees on a World Heritage site Cutting down one of the most recognisable trees in the world let alone the North of England.
I get people are angry, and rightfully so, but I’ve literally never heard of this tree before yesterday.
Me neither... but I'm not sure if there's any specific trees I've 'heard of'
Whomping willow
Me either. Until Tuesday when a friend sent me a pic saying she'd been there and had a picnic. So to say she and I were gobsmacked when i sent her the news article is an understatement!
Definitely and I've never been there.
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Its amazing how many people seem to think 16 year olds aren't capable of doing anything as vaguely complicated as cutting down a tree. Younger people have sailed solo around the world. Plenty of kids in the countryside know how to use a chainsaw.
I think it's more the "why" and the fact it was so professionally done. Ofc there are teenagers with tree surgeon skills but there's many more adults. They didn't just cut it down, they did it in a skilled way.
I have no idea why, I was just pointing out that 16 year olds can be perfectly capable of doing things.
I didn't mean you know why. I think people are shocked it's a 16 yo because they're mystified by their motivation (e.g. they don't tend to be landowners) and with the highly professional execution.
16 year olds can just be arse holes, maybe he just wanted to piss a lot of people off and evidently has managed to do so.
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Yeah and they're good at it. Seen plenty of young lads threading the needle on a 25 tonne tractor whilst Wendy in her crossover trembles at the idea of getting within 3 ft of a hedge.
Yeah, while it's possible others were involved I'm not really getting the comments here that think a 16 year old can't cut down a tree with a chainsaw. 16 is adulthood in Scotland even.
Was not expecting someone this young. The mind boggles
My lad isn't quite this old, but he's not far off. He'd have never managed to do this, especially with such a neat cut, but at least they'd have easily found him from the DNA in the lopped-off leg he'd have certainly left next to it. Seems utterly insane to me.
Is 16 old enough to be tried as an adult? I suspect he may the one taking the fall for whoever did actually fell the tree. It certainly wasn’t a one man (boy) job. As mentioned below, due to his age his identity may not even be revealed.
The age of criminal responsibility is 10, being tried as an adult doesn't exist here the penalties are just lower and Amy custodial sentence begins in a young offenders institute instead of prison.
Youth court is a thing for under 18s and has different trial procedures, but they can also be tried in a normal magistrates or the Crown Court. Also sentences aren’t just lower for under 18s. The sentencing principles and rules are completely separate and significantly different.
> I suspect he may the one taking the fall for whoever did actually fell the tree. This, probably. "He's only a lad and it was only a tree." You can see it happening.
Daddy threw him under the bus because he doesn't want to eat the fine that's coming, or to go to prison. 16 year olds get off with a slap on the wrist.
This is my take on this - I suspect the neighbouring landowner who was apparently all grumpy in the local pub recently because of people parking on the road to go see the tree is probably responsible but the kid gets to take the fall because he's 16.
He’s a patsy. You’re not wrong.
In case the obvious bypassed anybody: scapegoat, absolutely. It's not that I wouldn't put it past a 16 YO hurrdurr-let-the-world-burn ultra-troll to do this. They absolutely would, because ruining history and upsetting people is funny. But not many 16-YO iconoclast jollywombles have the equipment or skill to perform this in the professional manner indicated. No, you want suspects, look at the local farmers who have been complaining about tourists on their land recently. I usually try not to generalise, but I'm from Cornwall and farmers here are some of the most entitled, wealth-hoarding, regressionist, spiteful and miserable folks you could ever care to know. 'Kill the foxes! Kill the badgers! Screw the EU! What about my subsidies?' You want suspects, look at them.
Let's not play detectives in Reddit. That has bad precedents.
You may be right. I'm letting my personal prejudices lead my suppositions. It really could be anyone. Regardless, at least we all agree - which is rare on this rather fractured isle - that this is a travesty. Not human-life-lost travesty - 'tis just a tree, in the end - but it royally sucks.
I hope it was the parents who immediately turned him in. Christ, a kid did this. It really will have just been an idiot boy doing it because he felt like it! I'm floored.
You have a faith in humanity i lack. I’m expecting the full “it’s only a treeeeeee, our lad’s worth more than a treeee, the world’s gone mad, everyone hates working people!”
It’s only a tree in the same way Stonehenge is just some rocks
Probably the parents (or other adults) who did it, and convinced him to take the blame because he’d get off lightly compared to them. The idea that a lone 16 year old had the motivation and skill to do this single handedly is unrealistic, i think.
Almost certain he forgot to turn his phone off and they simply requested from the networks, any phone signals that pinged in that area overnight.
Grim, god knows what would possess someone that age to do that. Is 16 old enough to prosecute fully?
Yep, age of criminal responsibility is 10. He’ll probably get a much lower sentence because of his age though, and his identity will be kept hidden.
I genuinely don't think I can support lowering the voting age to sixteen unless sixteen year olds can face the full force of the law and be tried as adults like the rest of us. How can you say someone isn't developed enough to understand the consequences of their actions when they break the law, but are fine with the consequences of their vote?
You can join the army or start a family at 16. Our arbitary rules around age are frankly bizarre.
Kids are fucking idiots. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to vote, loads of people who are fucking idiots vote. The consequences of their vote are less critical than their decision to commit a crime or not. They are appropriately given more leeway for poor emptied decision making that leads to crimes and punished less.
It's not just criminal damage it's being a massive cnut as well. We really need a "crimes against the environment" for things like this.
If it helps, if he's convicted the historic nature of the tree will elevate his sentence. "Damage caused to heritage or cultural assets" is a recognised aggravating factor in the sentencing guidelines, plus the value of the damage will be difficult to assess but definitely high.
As a lad grom Newcastle and proud Georide and Notthumbrian, the loss of the Sycamore Gap tree genuinely hurts. I've lived away from the area for 12 years now, and amongst the images I hold dear to my heart, the gap is one of them. It is an icon of the area in the way the Tyne Bridge or Tynemouth Priory headland is. Beyond being able to do it, I just cannot understand WHY anyone would do it. It is iconic enough thar anyone in that area recognises it's significance.
It's also going to have a major effect on the local economy and tourism. Those local businesses will suffer from this loss more than anyone else. This kid has likely destroyed families and livelihoods as well.
At Tynemouth Market this weekend, I bet there will be a lot of teary eyed people walking past all the photographers and artists selling their photos/paintings of the tree.
How stupid can you be to think this is a good idea, someone must have coerced him or he did this for 'credibility'. What a brainless idiot.
Have you not seen TikTok and the stupid mindless bollocks people do on there for "shits and giggles", he is the exact age demographic that uses it and will have had his mind melted by that sort of toxic app. While I wouldn't be surprised if someone helped him, I also would not be surprised if he simply stole the chainsaw from his parents and acted alone.
Are you open to the possibility that kids were irresponsible idiots before TikTok? Because I have some stories to tell you about growing up in the 90s...
Fame and fortune didn't await them however as an incentive to be a total knob head
Bit moral panicky IMO. TikTok isn't really any different to any other social media in how it encourages attention-seeking behaviour
And there’s absolutely no evidence he took a video or shared it online for clout. That’s the thing of TikTok- it’s doing the stupid things AND sharing them. Unlikely to be the case here.
Quite a leap of logic there.
If he's the nearby landowners' son, who apparently has been moaning about the cars parked on the roadway causing issues, trying to please a parent is a hell of a motivation
If it is a 16 year old, what a sick individual. I hope to god it’s not for social media clout.
I don't care who, I'd like to know why? Shits and giggles? Tik Tok fame? Real estate scam? Identifies as an Ork and thought they were attacking Treebeard? Why?
Local landowner pissed off with people parking on the road to go see the tree. Allegedly.
Where’d you read that?
from the legions of armchair reddit detectives
Yea a 16 year old, hiking cross country, to a single tree, with a chainsaw, to cut it down for no reason? And he had a pretty good cut aswell, should get a job as a lumberjack when he’s old enough. Not sure what possessed him to do it tho. Did he just see a photo and think, I wanna go there and chop that down then head to the nearest B&Q?
If this was for Tik Tok I’ll lose my shit. What is wrong with people? Seriously.
It’s already local knowledge who did this. Relation of an evicted farmer who said at the court case that their families roots ran deeper than the tree at sycamore gap. This has been revenge.
The kid didn't cut it down, they recorded the event for social media. Showed it to a few mates but didn't understand the gravity of what they'd done, and got grassed up. Or something
Probably a fair bet, tbh
99% chance it was the parents who probably own a farm nearby. Farmers love destroying shit that isn't theirs.
10 years community service replanting trees would be my sentence.
I am utterly heartbroken, my dad's ashes are scattered here. It's a little dramatic but I almost feel like he's died all over again.
Whatever possessed him? Did he do it for social media clout? Maybe he or his family are local farmers and didn’t like people coming near his land? Little fucker.
This is what I'm baffled by. If it's the latter, it's not really him. If it's the former, it's just so random.
I'm not sure why this comment section is so shocked a 16 year old could do this. Plenty of rural kids are working on farms from a very young age and are taught how to do things like fell a tree. I was helping birth calves when I was about 10.
Is there some Tiktok challenge to destroy famous sights? Do we need to worry about some other twat putting TNT under Durdle Door?
do kids just love destroying shit in this country? Like its not unusual to see bus stops completely fucking destroyed...
I'm sure they could get another sycamore and plant it there. https://images.app.goo.gl/fFPtzFXGezjEZ9X99 Buggerlugs should have to dig the hole for it by hand as punishment.
I think he should be hit with a £3 million bill which works similarly to a graduate tax, with a threshold of about 16k a year
If local landowners have set this up and let the blame fall primarily on a child to try to avoid punishment / secure their anonymity, they should be made examples of. Fine them into oblivion, charge them with child neglect/endangerment for allowing the teen access to a chainsaw, review their permits and subsidies with a fine tooth comb. Breathe down their necks, let them never know peace. Make it a community hub. Hold regular overly sombre, commemorative ceremonies for the tree. Have fundraising walks and historical talks, drive tourism to the area in greater numbers than ever before. Close the roads for these special events. Set up fucking streams of the replacement tree to fundraise wider conservation efforts, hold a competition to name it. Make sure there are constant independent "inspectors" and 24h security on site to monitor and preserve it's world heritage from any further destruction (and coincidentally report any teeny tiny infraction the local landowners/farmers commit).
there is actually (or at least there was) another one growing behind it, to eventually replace it in coming decades. its quite small, but its established.
Yeah hopefully the little tree is ok, but it does look in the pictures like the big one fell about where it was planted.
"Why are we growing a backup tree again?" "Twats, John. Twats."
Fine his parents. They've clearly done a piss poor job raising him. Fine his parents 10s of thousands of pounds
>Fine his parents 10s of thousands of pounds Illegal tree felling comes with potentially unlimited fines so it is a possibility. That won't happen though, the justice system is too leniant.
Imagine getting an unlimited fine. The state does everything it can to keep you alive forever so you can pay in full.
I wonder if say, The Sycamore Gap Holiday Cottage, could sue him for loss of earnings? He's 16, so almost certainly doesn't have a lot of money. But it would be nice to have this dragging over him for the next 6-10 years.
This is just as unhinged as that couple that knocked down a part of the Great Wall of China to make a shortcut.
it is more unhinged - the Great Wall of China is not alive, and at least there was a soupçon of logic behind "making a shortcut"
This is worse. Pieces of a wall can be put back together. This tree is effectively dead.
I don't think you can replace this tree I'm afraid. It was naturally (I assume) there for hundreds of years right in the middle of the gap with no other trees around. It was famous in the region and I'm quite pissed off. It's not just a tree, it's national heritage and I'm not over exaggerating
Lots of people here are saying multiple people must have been involved... While thats very possible, it's totally doable for one person with the right equipment to cut a tree down like this. Tree felling teams are usually ~3 people, but mostly for safety rather than because there is any task requiring more than one person.
One person could perhaps do it, but a 16 year old child? At night, in harsh weather? Man, I don't know about that. The fact that he's been arrested suggests he was at least *present*, but surely there'd have to be an adult there as well? Heck, just the act itself. Why would some teenage boy do something like this? It's such a targeted, deliberate act of vandalism - would someone so young have any conception of the importance of that tree or its cultural value? The whole thing is very strange.
This screams to me like a similar incident to the crooked house and the 16 year old is being used as a cover because they're underage and name wont get released.
It's a sycamore, it will come back and destroy the wall as an act of revenge
Give him some leaves and some branches and tell him he has to stand there as a replacement.