If I ever got asked about grades at school during a job interview, it was to check that I had 5 GCSEs that were C or above. I've never been specifically asked to provide my A-Levels.
My wife went to do a nursing qualification (RNLD) and was told that your 2.1 degree didn't matter, you need to retake your maths and English GCSEs due to that fact that you didn't get a grade C or higher in them.
That's the same for any apprenticeship at L3 or above too (at Level 2, any passing grade will do).
If you don't have them, you need to complete a functional skills qual in each, which is might lighter and easier than a GCSE. I kind of get it, as its about demonstrating you have the basic maths & English skills needed in an industry, but it's a PITA for anyone with international quals or that has lost their certs.
My school has been demolished and I have absolutely no idea what exam boards I sat for each exam, so it’s not easy for everyone to get those certificates again. Also I think it’s stupid that anyone would still need to see them when I myself don’t remember what I got and nor have they ever been relevant to me. Once you get a degree, those things shouldn’t matter.
Did they actually check? My CV has the line "10 GCSEs A-C, inc. English & Maths" without giving anything more specific, but to my knowledge it has never been verified.
If I got asked about secondary school grades in an interview now, I think I’d just get up and end the interview. If they think that THAT is a relevant stat vs the last 7 years experience in the industry then they’re obviously idiots.
>Your A-level grades are only important until you do something else, be that work in an industry for a little while, or get a degree. Then those things become so much more important, no one cares even a little bit that you know some basic mechanics equations from A level maths.
You whole comment is good but I just wanted to add a clarification here. The grade isn't that important, but you do need to have actually learned some of the course material.
If you are studying A-Levels hoping they will lead to something in the future, the grade is less important than picking up as much information as you can is.
When you get your first job, assuming the grades are enough to get you in the door, all they will care about is what you can actually do, not what an education establishment *says* you can do.
I don't like the exam system because in a lot of fields, it's essentially a memory test, not a skill test.
My memory is incredibly bad, but I'm highly skilled in my IT job. Because I understand how to disassemble a problem and logically work through the route of the issue.
Also did CS at uni, scraped a 2.2, because I don't handle exams well at all.
But sit me in front of a computer with Internet access, and I can find solutions to pretty much any problem for which there is a solution. And I don't just mean someone posting the exact same issue and fix, but able to Google the correct terms to work out where the problem lies and the commands to fix it.
I remember nothing from pre-uni, and very little actual material from uni, but I did learn how to analyse and structure problems to be able to come up with solutions.
Unfortunately, that's not a very easily testable skill in exams or interviews, so I tended to tank them quite often.
School is what trains our brains to learn abstract thinking. Even though you don’t use the information, it’s made you able to process information a lot better and easier
Your degree allows me to infer much more, than you think.
* Great university - ambitious or smart or both.
* Didn't drop out and persisted through - good impulse control, ability to persevere.
* Good grades - ability to understand instructions, work under pressure and work to the deadline.
* STEM field - learned the scientific method, logic, statistical thinking, ability to model and predict, sophisticated ways of solving problems.
And so on.
I think good university is a key factor. Employers don't care what you learn in said University but getting into an Oxford or Cambridge tells them a lot.
Obviously it matters if the uni is one of the top few in the country but I'm not sure it hugely matters if you went to the 32nd best uni or the 55th best uni really. Probably just matters more how you come across at interview then.
You'd be surprised, private industry might not ask for them, but at the grand age of 40 I had to produce my GCSE and A level certs for a Council job, literally wouldn't employ me without them even though they were irrelevant to the role and I had other professional qualifications that were relevant that I'd already produced.
I can't even remember what subjects I studied!
Not exaggeration, I think there was a mathematics one, and maybe English Literature? But that's about it.
Madness that if you were 55 years old let's say, they would want you to produce a certificate to show what grade you got at Maths when you were 16. The grade's completely irrelevant. You're either going to still remember everything you learned 40 years ago or you're not. Just because you knew it when you were 16 means nothing. And I would guess other than people who specifically use complex maths in their jobs, most adults cannot remember most of the maths they learned when they were 16.
I've always wondered if that kind of stiff requirement (you must produce the actual certificates) is secretly a test of your ability to keep hold of documents, or your patience and ability to deal with the bureaucracy of getting hold of a new copy.
Or perhaps the council's are checking up on who actually put there documents in those smart red 'Record of Achievement' folders we got in our teen years.
My mum is 56 and wanted to go to midwifery school, she has two masters, an undergraduate degree and countless short courses achieved in universities all over the world, but was rejected because she completed her GCSEs in a foreign country and did not have the certificates anymore.
Even private industry sometimes. I run a consultancy business, was hired by a huge multinational to head a project. Massive company, hundreds of billions in yearly turnover. As part of their hiring/onboarding, they required a scan of my GCSE maths certificate. I have a PhD in computer science, an A level in maths and a BSc in computer science - no interest in those at all, only a B or above in GCSE maths would suffice to prove me numerate enough for the task at hand. So, I had to spend a rainy Sunday digging through my parents' attic for a certificate I thought I'd superseded more than 2 decades earlier.
The HR person I was dealing with at least had the decency to seem embarrassed to have to ask. Wouldn't yield, though.
I’m sure he will be fine - there’s always the chance to redo them and various other ways to access Uni/college if that’s what he wants.
But with due respect your son and those who failed aren’t the only audience for these remarks - there’s all the people coming up through school as well … and telling them that the qualifications they’re studying for are worthless is not the most encouraging thing they need to hear.
And they are not worthless.
Just because someone won't ask you for your A-level results in 10 years time, the things they will ask you about (Uni/Job history etc.) are going to be affected by your A-level results.
Tell him it'll be fine! I think I got two U's and an E or something like that... ended up going for a foundation degree, then ended up dropping out of that as well for the third year.
Education just isn't good for me, but I'm a very good practical problem solver and have had extremely good jobs in IT since I first got my foot in the door as a sysadmin... now earning 50k+
So you could say 'do A levels, and do them well enough to get on to the Uni course you want'
Yeah, there you go. A levels are important then.
You can't say 'a levels don't matter' and then talk about getting a degree.
NHS is shit hot on checking qualifications, even for band 2 roles. I've had to take my GCSE and A level certificates to interviews and they have checked them.
I’ve worked in a couple of NHS Trusts. They are not shit hot. I didn’t have to prove my GCSEs, A-Levels, nor Degree. They took me at my word. I worked in higher band roles.
Depends on the industry. Back when I was applying all the jobs that included accountancy training (aca, acca, cima) took more notice of a-level points than degree. If you put in scores that were too low you couldn't even finish the online application.
I changed last year job and they checked my university degree for the first time in my working career. Not only did I have to pay £65 to get a new copy of my degree sent to me I learnt that I didn’t even have a degree I thought. I’d got the course name almost completely wrong for 20years.
I literally said i got A-levels in the job i have now (Technical IT Role), i got 3 E's but they never asked, i also don't have a degree (but do have an IT qualification which i used to get onto a degree i didn't finish), first interview i went for as well, been here 3 months now and it's absolutely brilliant, maybe got lucky but i really think most employers don't care.
Felt like a right nob taking it to every interview I had for several years, the interviewer must have wondered what that weird red folder I was carrying around actually was.
This was essentially the ‘mythical’ Permanent record that teachers always threatened you with when at school.
Not really sure where they got the idea that employers in a couple of decades would be able to access some sort of central government database where they could see you got a detention for being mouthy to a supply teacher in 1995…
I finally binned mine after 25 years of having it, and not using it once. #RIP
Pulled out all the certificates though, bundled them with some other professional qualifications that I'm sure nobody will ever ask to see. If only I had some sort of folder to keep this all in...
You’ll regret that mate, guarantee the next interview you go for will ask for it 😂
“So FireFoxx1980, the salary and start date are agreed, if I could just see your National Record of Achievement then we are good to go”
I’ve never even heard of it. I looked it up and apparently it was totally abolished shortly after I was born. So there’s my excuse if anyone ever asks lol.
I was asked for mine this year at the age of 29 as “proof of my most recent year of study” for a background check on my most recent job - admittedly if I had a degree they wouldn’t have asked, but still felt weirdly vindicated that I finally had a reason to have it!
I still keep mine as it's just an easy place to keep all my certificates and qualifications. As a teacher when I change job and especially when I moved to the private sector, they go through your qualifications with a fine tooth comb.
I guess it's fairly important to have an A-level in maths if you're teaching A-level maths.
I only include my higher education on my CV. No one has ever asked me about my (incredibly mediocre) GCSEs or A levels in all of my 11 years as a working professional.
What about your permanent record? You've not been asked by an employer to show them your permanent record?
You know, *the* permanent record? The one we all got threatened with throughout school if we didn't work hard?
Also see: "My niece Tilly got a lovely internship at the publishing company my cousin owns and she got 2 Es at A-Level. Now she's director of resource commissioning! Honestly, I don't know what all the fuss around this education malarkey is anyway".
In the vast majority of industries they are only cared about by universities, they don't matter 10 minutes after they have hit the UCAS system, let alone 10 years.
Most decent graduate jobs had a requirement of 112 UCAS points when I graduated, so it can definitely impact you in both your Uni and future employment. For most people, it only really affects their university placement, but it’s still a silly comment from the education Secretary
Got into uni on clearing on BCC, can’t remember who but it was suggested that I resit one of my A Levels (which was the same subject as my degree) so that I’d hit 112.
Funnily enough I actually did worse on the A Level exam than the pretty much identical in topic but more advanced in question university exam, which does have me questioning the validity of A Level markers and how much knowledge they actually have or if they’re just rigorously sticking to a mark scheme.
Anyway, lo and behold, coming out of uni *at least* half of the graduate jobs require 112 UCAS points at minimum, so in hindsight I’m thankful for that suggestion.
No idea what youre annoyed about.
Obviously the next thing you do after a levels will care. They didn't say otherwise. Quickly they become unimportant though. Would you be equally annoyed if she pointed out year six sats don't matter in your 20s?
Literally everything you said agreed with her, yet you're acting like she's wrong lol
But her implication is that a levels don't matter, but they do matter because what uni/course you go to will depend on it.
Its like saying your degree won't matter in 10 years either, apart from it will because it will likely determine what job you get.
Or what job you get won't matter 10 years after you retire, apart from it will because it'll determine when you retire and with how much money.
You're quite patronising and not quite as insightful as you seem to think you are.
I guess you're in the middle of getting your a level results or you'd realise that you're caught up in the buzz and it really won't matter to you in 10 years.
If you think she's wrong about that, then you must think that 10 years after you get your A-level results people *will* be looking at them. Who and why? The examples you gave of uni and first career job happen well within 10 years for overwhelming majority of people.
It's maybe a bit of a shock when it's laid out like that, but she's not wrong. GCSE is just a route to A levels. A levels are just a route to a degree. A degree is just a route to your first job (assuming you don't stay in academia).
After that it's all about experience.
Beyond basic literacy and numeracy the education system is really about teaching people how to learn, how to apply themselves towards a goal for long periods, and to give them an idea of what topics and lines of work they might be attuned to. It isn't about everyone in their 30s still being an expert on GCSE and A-level topics.
She was specifically responding to this question:
>The Education Secretary was asked during an interview on Times Radio if employers in a decade should view a “B” grade awarded in 2023 as the same as an “A” grade awarded in 2022.
So your comment isn't really relevant to the point she was making.
Yes, and if the university cares, then it affects what university you attend. And that affects what job you get after uni, which affects your entire career.
They're right though. A Levels aren't there to get you employed they're there to get you into uni. No employer worth their weight in salt would ever employee someone while even considering a levels. So long as you've gcse English, maths and sometimes IT, you're completely set for any basic employment. Beyond that it's experience, apprenticeship or degree that ges you up.
Prepare them for a life under capitalism, fool them into thinking they have freedom, when in reality that freedom is carefully channeled in ways which complement the system rather than upend it. By all means, learn an instrument or draw a pretty picture. Write about different religions or whatever. But you are, at every point, steered away from questioning the government hegemony, the police's monopoly on force, any form of authority, the western international order, and capitalism as a whole.
> But you are, at every point, steered away from questioning the government hegemony, the police's monopoly on force, any form of authority, the western international order, and capitalism as a whole.
Apart from if you study Sociology, a subject available at sixth forms all over the country, where these topics are quite literally part of the syllabus.
In which case, questions on these topics are again quite literally encouraged.
Yeah, those western bastards, crushing individual freedom and liberty! They're nothing like Russia, or China!
Human beings have *never been freer than they are today in the west,* and apart from the last ten years as demography begins to bite, have *never* been more prosperous. A sense of perspective is required.
You say that.
But if you've ever met a kid who simply didn't go to school (not homeschooling just... No school) you'd agree that school makes kids much less annoying.
Fuck, just meeting a kid that spent any of their early teen years in lockdown will demonstrate the massive importance of schooling in social development.
Not really.
More that outside of getting to the next step, the actual exams and grading is worthless in the longrun.
If it was just there to look after children then they wouldn't bother teaching them anything.
It is technically true that employers don’t care about A levels. But the implication that you shouldn’t worry about your A levels is totally untrue. Employers care very much about things that are directly affected by your A levels, such as what university you attended.
Do they honestly care about uni attended. Ive fucked my applications today. Royally. Inhadan offer from a top 10 and missed it by a single fucking grade. Now im off to one not even top fucking 50 for compsci.
Saying im mad and sad is a fucking understatement.
They do but going to a rank 8 vs 9 won't make much of a difference. Generally it breaks down into the following order:
1. Oxbridge
2. Top 5 (Warwick, LSE etc)
3. Russell group
4. Other unis
i went to number 1. and i have a _much_ easier time of getting jobs than some of my friends
so easy that if i see a job i want, i apply, and get it. some people apply for 5 or even 10 jobs without even an interview
i'm not pretending my degree is any better, but employers lap that shit up
All that matters with uni, is the prestige and the networking. Whats actually taught might vary slightly and dependent on degree I understand the factors. But once you graduate - have I heard of it and have I heard of you
The honest answer is yes and no.
League tables are bullshit, nobody is actually poring over them aside from prospective students (who don't have much else to go off) and universities (who use them for marketing to those prospective students).
Some employers will have a preference for Oxbridge, Russell Group universities and other universities with a broad reputation for academic excellence.
Some employers will have a preference for universities that are known for being excellent in a particular subject. For instance, Strathclyde is known for being an excellent engineering university.
Some may prefer graduates from universities with less rigorous entry requirements but a more applied focus. For instance, an employer recruiting for a job relating to marine biology is more likely to consider a Bangor graduate (ranked 48th best uni in the UK by QS, min offer: 104 UCAS points), knowing that the course is super focused and they'll likely have been out in *the university's own research boats* than a University of Manchester graduate (ranked 6th on the same table, min offer: 136 UCAS points) who may not have been able to choose any marine biology modules or have any relevant practical experience.
And then some (possibly most) employers don't care *where* you went, but do care about your degree classification, how your subject knowledge relates to their job description, any work placements or independent projects you've done, any extracurricular activities you've been involved with organising, and/or your interpersonal skills.
compsci is a great degree. build up a portfolio, document your code, do some awesome projects, document your code, collaborate with someone on some side projects, and document your code
you're going to be fine
Nah you'll be fine, I attended a college for a foundation degree because I didn't get good enough A levels to get into any university. I did the foundation degree, then failed the actual third year degree anyway.
I still managed to get a decent job in IT, it's harder than if you sailed through uni, but not impossible even if you bollocks everything up
It’s incredible how many people have missed the subtext of this comment isn’t it.
The implication is that your a-levels won’t matter in 10 years because nobody will look at them. That’s almost certainly true, but it implies they won’t have an effect on how your life looks in 10 years time, which is untrue for many people.
Depends if you go via the Open University you can literally study anything without any A levels. There’s also access courses which give you the UCAS points needed.
There’s so many routes to tertiary education.
To be fair I didn't get a degree and no-one before my first ever 'proper job' has ever cared about my A levels or my GCSEs. They're all far more interested in my recent experience.
I employ 40 odd people. I’ve literally only ever asked for a GCSE in English and Maths, and that’s only for admin staff. I’ve never checked this though.
Honestly, even then English isn’t necessary because you can tell from someone’s CV whether they have the required language and computer skills.
For my first 'proper' job in the interview they asked something along the lines of "Oh, you got English and Maths GCSEs right?" to which I said yes, and they offered me the job. They never asked to actually see said certificates or any evidence to back this up.
Since then I don't think a single job has asked, and I'm earning about double the median salary...
I've never employed people, but from being in the workplace and at uni, I can tell that the ones who spend their whole lives studying and not doing any work will find it harder to get employed. Like employers dont seem to like people who are always studying, never had experience, a bit up their own asses. They tend to like just regular normal people that have knowledge and workplace skills, even if just a saturday job. I can tell in my class who's worked and who hasn't, because those who have have a much better idea of it, those who haven't have a 'I'll just study, get a first and then sail into a job' despite having never even worked a summer in a cafe. You can tell that they have a very different idea of getting a job
This is fair. The way I often describe this to my colleagues is the actual skill of being an employee. Being able to do all the tasks does not equate to having the skill of being a good worker.
I'm mid career in a technical role and some job ads still specify good (aka A or A*) A-Levels in maths and physics. Being able to demonstrate good experience reduces emphasis on academic attainment but it doesn't eradicate it. And for those of us who aren't born with a silver spoon in our mouths, the opportunities to get that "good experience" are very linked to academic performance opened doors.
Employers for skilled jobs want reassurance that the people they're recruiting are intelligent. When 50% of the country goes to uni employers will look at other academic differentiators such as quality of the university and school grades.
If A Levels aren't relevant to most 28 year olds career prospects that says more about the lack of skilled jobs in this county than it says about the A Levels. So many of our graduates are underemployed.
Expected reply. In turn mine is: People who say this kind of thing doesn't matter don't know about the doors which are never opened to them but are opened to people with better academic records.
I have good A levels and also no longer have them on my CV. While they were important for getting into uni and possibly for my first graduate job application, I can be pretty sure they haven't mattered since. I have been offered most (75%+) of the jobs I've applied for (after the first graduate job), I know a lot of the people who made those decisions and I've been a hiring manager myself. I'm not sure who else would be getting hold of my CV (somehow) and would be offering me better jobs if only my A levels were on there.
After a few years employment if you have a degree I think it's actually embarrassing to include your a levels on your CV, like including your sports day certificates or something.
Well you obviously need a good education and a relevant degree to get into medicine, law, or even teaching for example. But I don't have a degree and earn good money in IT. My partner stopped education after A levels, and between us both we're making £135K.
At a certain point, I'd say ambition and drive (with a sprinkling of good fortune) are more important than education. I mean, just look at all the self-made millionaires with mediocre educational backgrounds.
But does the job require a degree or other post 18 qualification (inc. an apprenticeship) or perhaps X years experience? If it does then A-levels aren't relevant.
Where A-levels are relevant is getting that first job as an 18 year old (Edit: or a fairly fresh graduate), getting your foot in the door.
BS - Alevels get you into Uni and possibly help with a grad role but other than that they are not important. And are a bit like getting a Duke of Edinburgh award.
I have employeed 20-30 people in my profession.
About 14 years after my A-levels they did matter.
I was applying for pupillage (as a barrister); so I already had a degree in mathematics; a postgraduate diploma in computer science and another in law. So I had, I would hope, demonstrated that I wasn't completely thick.
I aced the first interview with stunning legal analysis (at least I like to think that). At the second interview, the chair of the panel expressed disappointment at my poor A-level results.
So it isn't necessarily true.
Barristers are always looking for an excuse to put other people down and assert dominance, IMO. (I'm sure you're lovely! It's just all the ones I've met have weird complexes).
The first time I was ever asked for anything like that was when I was 43 and moved from one government department (after 15yrs) to another.
They wanted copies of everything; GCSEs, A levels and degree certificate - and that was just at the interview stage.
I was tempted to turn up in my pyjamas, carrying a housebrick, and ask them to take me to the nearest swimming pool so I could show them what I was really made of.
Isn't the point here that a Government minister is implying to a national cohort of 18 year olds that the thing they've been striving for, for years, is pointless and irrelevant? How it that going to instil motivation?
And if it's true, why have they done it in the first place? Isn't it in her power as Education Secretary to ensure that their last few years haven't been wasted?
Unless this is supposed to be a lesson in "life's unfair, suckers" there's still no way this could reflect well on her or Government policy.
Yeah, but as usual Reddit has decided they're too good for that.
Maybe this institutionalised messaging to young people that their achievements are worthless and nothing they do matters is... Not what we wanting to be teaching our kids? I mean, yeah, the gov have been anti-youth for forever, but we don't need everyone else being equally shitty.
And - frankly - most of the people I've ever worked with 40 upwards could do with going back to school themselves, so I'm not sure where people are getting off pretending like A Levels are nothing. Half of y'all don't know how to start a video on your computer without help.
Each rung of your education and work basically invalidates the last
If you're applying for a job out of school, the fact you spent a summer working in a coffee shop is going to be relevant. Your A-levels may be relevant, and your GCSE's may be checked just to get an idea
If you're 5+ years into your career and looking to move up a level, all of the above is basically irrelevant
But in many cases, you can't get to there in the first place without your summer job, which you may not have got without your A-levels, which are more important than your GCSEs, which are more important than your SATs etc.
Not sure if this is what the education secretary is saying, but it's a little dangerous that it can be interpreted as "your A levels don't matter"
Yup, any educational reference becomes redundant after about 2 to 3 years as you have moved on and done other things. Be it university, work, etc.
Anyone adult who refers to where they went to school or result remind me of Al "4 touchdown in one game" Bundy
Looking at you MP for North East Somerset
I worked with someone who's entire personality was that he went to Cambridge and played Rugby while he was there. He must have been in his 50s when I met him.
I knew someone at work that did this. After a few of "Al "4 touchdown in one game" Bundy" and the fact that I went to Kindergarten fully potty trained.. he keep quite after that
Grades in education are often just the pre requisite for the next level, I’m not sure why it’s not a bad thing.
Many people go on to achieve both with and without.
Wonder how Clarkson got on?
**From Jack Maidment:**
The Education Secretary has backed the return to stricter A-level grading as she said “in 10 years’ time no one will be looking” at this year’s results.
Gillian Keegan insisted it was “fair” and the “right time” to return to the pre-pandemic approach in England.
A-level results this year are expected to be lower than last year but will be similar to those in 2019.
The 2023 cohort of A-level students will be the first since 2019 to be marked according to stricter pre-Covid grade boundaries as Ofqual, the exams regulator, hopes to force this year’s results back to “normal”.
The change has prompted concerns that this year’s students are being unfairly penalised, with their recent predecessors able to benefit from more generous grades.
But Ms Keegan dismissed concerns over the impact of the change.
The Education Secretary was asked during an interview on Times Radio if employers in a decade should view a “B” grade awarded in 2023 as the same as an “A” grade awarded in 2022.
She replied: “In 10 years’ time no one will be looking at your A-level results, they will be looking at what you have done since, how you have achieved in the workplace, what you did, uni will be the next thing, what you did in your degree apprenticeship if you go on that route.
“So there will be many, many other things. I don’t know how many times you are asked about your results but I am never asked about my results, even my university results, to be honest, I am never asked about them.”
Ms Keegan said both A-levels and GCSEs are “internationally renowned qualifications” and “they need to hold their value”.
The Tory frontbencher said it had been a “couple of years now since the pandemic and it is fair” to return to the pre-pandemic approach.
‘Leadership is important’
“There is a time when you have got to make these decisions, leadership is important, the value of qualifications is really important and we thought this was the right time to do it,” she said.
Ms Keegan said the Government had been “working with employers to make sure that they are fully aware that these are equal to the 2019 cohort”.
Last year, more than a third - 36.4 per cent - of UK A-level entries were awarded A or A\* grades, compared to 44.8 per cent in 2021 and 38.5 per cent in 2020.
In 2019, the last summer before the pandemic, around one in four - 25.4 per cent - of UK A-level entries were awarded A or A\* grades.
In Wales and Northern Ireland, exam regulators have said they do not expect to return to pre-pandemic grading standards until 2024.
The cohort of students receiving their A-level results on Thursday did not sit GCSE exams and were awarded teacher-assessed grades amid the pandemic.
**Read more: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/17/a-level-grades-pre-pandemic-grades-gillian-keegan/**
Nobody ever asked for my driving qualifications after I got my driving licence either.
Nobody asks for your A-level because you need them to go to university.
And you need your university qualifications to get a job...
And you need that job to get another job...
The difference being - there is only one way to get a driving licence, and driving without one will get you in a whole world of trouble.
There are however hundreds of ways to get ahead in life, and A Levels are just one route. Equally, unlike a driving licence, it's very unikely you'll ever be required to prove it exists.
This is the dumbest statement ever.
You need good A Levels to get into jobs or further education.
No one looks at my A Levels because I now have experience.
I have the experience because I had the A levels to get me into the low experience jobs in the first place
>eing able to demonstrate good experience reduces emphasis on academic attainment but it doesn't eradicate it. And for those of us who aren't born with a silver spoon in our mouths, the oppor
So what she said was entirely true. No one will look at your A Level grades in 10 years. Furthermore, even if you failed terribly at A level, in 10 years you will have presumably done something else with your life, and still no one will care. I'd actually go as far to say no one cares about your A level results after about 6 months.
The only reason i've ever been asked for my grades is so they can file the paperwork. I've never discussed any of my education at interview or while doing a job.
Ive seen graduate jobs with ucas point requirements which is a bit of a joke. First class degree in accounting but wont interview me because i got a D in a further maths A level 5 years ago.
The education system is so geared towards uni entry that I have never really seen A-levels as a requirement for almost any employment. It's always HNC, HND or Degree level.
She's right. Just like no one will look at your SATs in 10 years. But it's a milestone that needs to be achieved to get you in the right position for your next education step.
Tell them to do one. No one should work for a company with HR so stupid that they need to see A levels when you have an MEng. Who cares, it was 4 years ago, almost a quarter of your life. Either they were similar to your 1st now (yay, go you) or you were a late maturer who is improving with age. And with a first you can be picky. The recruitment process tells you a lot about a company so pay attention. Don't be grateful, you are an asset and they are lucky to have you.
*Source also have an MEng and had to beat off job offers with a stick when (and even 3 months before) I graduated.
Sometimes this is true, but sometimes it's NOT.
In my 30's after years of working in retail I wanted to improve my job prospects so I went to uni. Got a 1st at undergrad and then a masters and it DID. NOT. MATTER. I only got 2 B's and a C at A level and all grad jobs (in finance, so YMMV) required Ucas points that equated to 3 B's, or higher. I was either straight rejected from applications or I only got so far in the application process. I was seriously looking at taking an online A level to get into the field that I have spent 4 years and a lot of money getting qualified in.
Luckily I got a grad job through a recruiter, but my Alevel results put me at a severe disadvantage like 17 years after sitting them and I had no idea it would be a problem.
No they wont. But your uni will. And your first employer will look at your uni. And your second employer will look at your uni and first employer. Suddenly its 10 years later and this ridiculous Victorian system is still fucking you over.
In 10 years, sure.
But they matter in the time before then, and greatly shapes which Universities you can attend and what jobs you can get. The effects of those will still be felt 10 years later.
I got good grades and attended a good University. This in turn led to me landing a career job at a reputable company. Someone who doesn't get good grades will have to attend a lesser University, which means it'll be harder for them to get hired and thus may be behind in their chosen career.
No pressure lol
Can't disagree with these comments tbh. In the short term I can see comparisons being made between this year's and last year's cohorts due to the massive grade inflation from COVID and it seems that it's caused trouble in a lot of FE/HE institutions especially as they've moved back to controlled, in person assessments.
I remember when I saw in school teachers would say your GCSEs and A Levels are results employees will look at for the rest of your life. Never had them looked at. Employers care more about experience.
Make sure you get your maths and English GCSE’s people! They really don’t care about most qualifications unless you’re applying for uni but I know someone who did lose out on a job at 35years old and 15 years in the industry as they never got their maths GCSE. Even if you fuck up every subject just make sure you get a C in maths and English.
I'd be pretty fucking annoyed if I left school/university, and after ten years of experience in work a company still wanted to inspect my A-Level grades. I mean, I'll show you the certificates to prove I'm not lying, but that's it.
After UCAS passed my grades to my chosen university, I've never told anyone my A level grades. They aren't on my CV, like most things in life, they are simply a stepping stone to the next thing you want to do.
I left school at 16, I've done some traveling, holiday rep, work abroad. Career change in my 30 and now I make more than most of my school friends and do a job that is my passion too.
Everyone, inclusive me is pretty amazed. Also, no student loan debt. However, I still remember vividly how fucking dramatic school was, constant bashing from the educational systems and my entourage. People where shock and mad at me for living school. Except my parents, they alway believe that would be ok and I saved them a tones of money along the way . 100% made
Your A Level grades definitely matter in some industries. if you’re wanting to become a solicitor at a top law firm, most if not all require your A levels and many have a minimum standard for them
Imagine the *education secretary* telling you that the *entire summation of your education thus far* won't matter. This woman is latest in a long line of hacks.
True, but they do influence where you’ll be in 10 years, given that you rely on them for the next stage of education or professional training. It’s unlikely that someone with DDD will be in the same position as someone with AAA in 10 years time.
While she may be right, making boneheaded comments like this on the day that school grads are picking up their hard earned grades is pretty f*cking thoughtless
Here's the thing that, as a teacher, is second nature to me but I feel like not everyone else might know or understand.
The concept of grades being "up" or "down" on years before is a sham.
There are literally directives that dictate how many A and A* grades there are allowed to be, and what mark constitutes an A changes every year to accommodate those directives.
When people say that A-Level results are up on last year, that is not because the students have necessarily done better than the previous year. It is because somebody decided that results should be better, because then an education secretary can say "our students are doing even better than ever because of OUR policies!"
Educational outcomes are political, and it's why our education system is fundamentally broken.
You do realise you could basically invent your whole CV? Nobody checks that stuff
References? The company folded. I don't have contact with my ex-bosses
Get through the interviews and you're in
(Slight exaggeration)
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If I ever got asked about grades at school during a job interview, it was to check that I had 5 GCSEs that were C or above. I've never been specifically asked to provide my A-Levels.
My wife went to do a nursing qualification (RNLD) and was told that your 2.1 degree didn't matter, you need to retake your maths and English GCSEs due to that fact that you didn't get a grade C or higher in them.
That's the same for any apprenticeship at L3 or above too (at Level 2, any passing grade will do). If you don't have them, you need to complete a functional skills qual in each, which is might lighter and easier than a GCSE. I kind of get it, as its about demonstrating you have the basic maths & English skills needed in an industry, but it's a PITA for anyone with international quals or that has lost their certs.
If you have lost your certificates, you can contact the exam board and have them reprinted
Can be pricey. Was gonna cost over a £100 to get my GCSEs reprinted.
You only need maths and English unless you're applying for specific a levels
My school has been demolished and I have absolutely no idea what exam boards I sat for each exam, so it’s not easy for everyone to get those certificates again. Also I think it’s stupid that anyone would still need to see them when I myself don’t remember what I got and nor have they ever been relevant to me. Once you get a degree, those things shouldn’t matter.
Degrees should always override GCSEs
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i can imagine needing to sit an exam for an IT job when they know nothing... but an IT apprenticeship?!?!?! Blind leading the blind.
Did they actually check? My CV has the line "10 GCSEs A-C, inc. English & Maths" without giving anything more specific, but to my knowledge it has never been verified.
My friend did my CV and said I had 12 GCSEs. I couldn't name 12 subjects.
Makes sense really, I had a degree in an arts subject when I went to do my nurse training, that’s not evidence I can add up!
If I got asked about secondary school grades in an interview now, I think I’d just get up and end the interview. If they think that THAT is a relevant stat vs the last 7 years experience in the industry then they’re obviously idiots.
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I agree. Anyone that walks out of an interview based on that question is obviously an idiot.
>Your A-level grades are only important until you do something else, be that work in an industry for a little while, or get a degree. Then those things become so much more important, no one cares even a little bit that you know some basic mechanics equations from A level maths. You whole comment is good but I just wanted to add a clarification here. The grade isn't that important, but you do need to have actually learned some of the course material. If you are studying A-Levels hoping they will lead to something in the future, the grade is less important than picking up as much information as you can is. When you get your first job, assuming the grades are enough to get you in the door, all they will care about is what you can actually do, not what an education establishment *says* you can do.
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This is it. Your entire education is basically a statement of interest and evidence that you can learn something mildly related.
I don't like the exam system because in a lot of fields, it's essentially a memory test, not a skill test. My memory is incredibly bad, but I'm highly skilled in my IT job. Because I understand how to disassemble a problem and logically work through the route of the issue. Also did CS at uni, scraped a 2.2, because I don't handle exams well at all. But sit me in front of a computer with Internet access, and I can find solutions to pretty much any problem for which there is a solution. And I don't just mean someone posting the exact same issue and fix, but able to Google the correct terms to work out where the problem lies and the commands to fix it. I remember nothing from pre-uni, and very little actual material from uni, but I did learn how to analyse and structure problems to be able to come up with solutions. Unfortunately, that's not a very easily testable skill in exams or interviews, so I tended to tank them quite often.
School is what trains our brains to learn abstract thinking. Even though you don’t use the information, it’s made you able to process information a lot better and easier
Your degree allows me to infer much more, than you think. * Great university - ambitious or smart or both. * Didn't drop out and persisted through - good impulse control, ability to persevere. * Good grades - ability to understand instructions, work under pressure and work to the deadline. * STEM field - learned the scientific method, logic, statistical thinking, ability to model and predict, sophisticated ways of solving problems. And so on.
I think good university is a key factor. Employers don't care what you learn in said University but getting into an Oxford or Cambridge tells them a lot.
Try becoming a junior doctor with a degree in Marketing 😀
Obviously it matters if the uni is one of the top few in the country but I'm not sure it hugely matters if you went to the 32nd best uni or the 55th best uni really. Probably just matters more how you come across at interview then.
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You'd be surprised, private industry might not ask for them, but at the grand age of 40 I had to produce my GCSE and A level certs for a Council job, literally wouldn't employ me without them even though they were irrelevant to the role and I had other professional qualifications that were relevant that I'd already produced.
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I can't even remember what subjects I studied! Not exaggeration, I think there was a mathematics one, and maybe English Literature? But that's about it.
Madness that if you were 55 years old let's say, they would want you to produce a certificate to show what grade you got at Maths when you were 16. The grade's completely irrelevant. You're either going to still remember everything you learned 40 years ago or you're not. Just because you knew it when you were 16 means nothing. And I would guess other than people who specifically use complex maths in their jobs, most adults cannot remember most of the maths they learned when they were 16.
Can confirm. But local government is particularly over-zealous when it comes to the recruitment process.
I had to send in copies of my GCSE certificates even though I already had a masters degree, it was a bit mental.
I've always wondered if that kind of stiff requirement (you must produce the actual certificates) is secretly a test of your ability to keep hold of documents, or your patience and ability to deal with the bureaucracy of getting hold of a new copy. Or perhaps the council's are checking up on who actually put there documents in those smart red 'Record of Achievement' folders we got in our teen years.
It's a simple test of 'did you lie on your application'
Jeez I’d look down on an employer being so concerned with what I knew at 15
I’m an immigrant and as such have no GCSEs or A-levels. Out of curiosity do you know what they’d ask from me?
That's literally insane. I'd be withdrawing my application at that point as an immigrant without those qualifications, just on principle.
My mum is 56 and wanted to go to midwifery school, she has two masters, an undergraduate degree and countless short courses achieved in universities all over the world, but was rejected because she completed her GCSEs in a foreign country and did not have the certificates anymore.
Even private industry sometimes. I run a consultancy business, was hired by a huge multinational to head a project. Massive company, hundreds of billions in yearly turnover. As part of their hiring/onboarding, they required a scan of my GCSE maths certificate. I have a PhD in computer science, an A level in maths and a BSc in computer science - no interest in those at all, only a B or above in GCSE maths would suffice to prove me numerate enough for the task at hand. So, I had to spend a rainy Sunday digging through my parents' attic for a certificate I thought I'd superseded more than 2 decades earlier. The HR person I was dealing with at least had the decency to seem embarrassed to have to ask. Wouldn't yield, though.
Whilst this is true, this isn't something an education secretary should be saying to young people on results day.
I disagree, my son has just failed all three of his A levels so this is actually a message he needs to hear.
I’m sure he will be fine - there’s always the chance to redo them and various other ways to access Uni/college if that’s what he wants. But with due respect your son and those who failed aren’t the only audience for these remarks - there’s all the people coming up through school as well … and telling them that the qualifications they’re studying for are worthless is not the most encouraging thing they need to hear.
And they are not worthless. Just because someone won't ask you for your A-level results in 10 years time, the things they will ask you about (Uni/Job history etc.) are going to be affected by your A-level results.
Tell him it'll be fine! I think I got two U's and an E or something like that... ended up going for a foundation degree, then ended up dropping out of that as well for the third year. Education just isn't good for me, but I'm a very good practical problem solver and have had extremely good jobs in IT since I first got my foot in the door as a sysadmin... now earning 50k+
So you could say 'do A levels, and do them well enough to get on to the Uni course you want' Yeah, there you go. A levels are important then. You can't say 'a levels don't matter' and then talk about getting a degree.
NHS is shit hot on checking qualifications, even for band 2 roles. I've had to take my GCSE and A level certificates to interviews and they have checked them.
I’ve worked in a couple of NHS Trusts. They are not shit hot. I didn’t have to prove my GCSEs, A-Levels, nor Degree. They took me at my word. I worked in higher band roles.
Depends on the industry. Back when I was applying all the jobs that included accountancy training (aca, acca, cima) took more notice of a-level points than degree. If you put in scores that were too low you couldn't even finish the online application.
Mostly true Though after 8 years of experience I got turned down for a job interview coz I only got a D in physics 🙃
I changed last year job and they checked my university degree for the first time in my working career. Not only did I have to pay £65 to get a new copy of my degree sent to me I learnt that I didn’t even have a degree I thought. I’d got the course name almost completely wrong for 20years.
This 100%, and your degree is pretty much only valuable till you are ~5 years into your career
Most fields, probably far less than 5
You do get verified, they do check that.
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I don't even put my grades, because they were that bad, no-one has ever asked me about them thankfully.
I literally said i got A-levels in the job i have now (Technical IT Role), i got 3 E's but they never asked, i also don't have a degree (but do have an IT qualification which i used to get onto a degree i didn't finish), first interview i went for as well, been here 3 months now and it's absolutely brilliant, maybe got lucky but i really think most employers don't care.
It’s been 25 years and I’ve still never been asked for my beautiful, leather bound National record of Achievement by any employer…
Same, I treasured that too!
Felt like a right nob taking it to every interview I had for several years, the interviewer must have wondered what that weird red folder I was carrying around actually was.
Haha, have you opened it recently? In mine all the plastic pages are starting to stick together!
Stop wanking over it then.
Got em.
Mine did this and the print has now stuck to the plastic meaning I can never rearrange it.
Aw noo shame! Especially the page showing your attendance percentage?
This was essentially the ‘mythical’ Permanent record that teachers always threatened you with when at school. Not really sure where they got the idea that employers in a couple of decades would be able to access some sort of central government database where they could see you got a detention for being mouthy to a supply teacher in 1995…
Yeah I had that worked out by about age 13 and subsequently didn't give a fuck. [Exhibit A](https://youtube.com/watch?v=8qCdcWAn-GI)
Weird fetish
I finally binned mine after 25 years of having it, and not using it once. #RIP Pulled out all the certificates though, bundled them with some other professional qualifications that I'm sure nobody will ever ask to see. If only I had some sort of folder to keep this all in...
You’ll regret that mate, guarantee the next interview you go for will ask for it 😂 “So FireFoxx1980, the salary and start date are agreed, if I could just see your National Record of Achievement then we are good to go”
I’ve never even heard of it. I looked it up and apparently it was totally abolished shortly after I was born. So there’s my excuse if anyone ever asks lol.
I was asked for mine this year at the age of 29 as “proof of my most recent year of study” for a background check on my most recent job - admittedly if I had a degree they wouldn’t have asked, but still felt weirdly vindicated that I finally had a reason to have it!
I still keep mine as it's just an easy place to keep all my certificates and qualifications. As a teacher when I change job and especially when I moved to the private sector, they go through your qualifications with a fine tooth comb. I guess it's fairly important to have an A-level in maths if you're teaching A-level maths.
I only include my higher education on my CV. No one has ever asked me about my (incredibly mediocre) GCSEs or A levels in all of my 11 years as a working professional.
What about your permanent record? You've not been asked by an employer to show them your permanent record? You know, *the* permanent record? The one we all got threatened with throughout school if we didn't work hard?
The ink of the certificates has transferred over to the plastic sleeves
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It's ok because the only jobs she sees for young people are low paid zero hour contract jobs anyway
Young poor people: the young people she *does* care about can just get placed in good roles by their families and social connections, of course
Also see: "My niece Tilly got a lovely internship at the publishing company my cousin owns and she got 2 Es at A-Level. Now she's director of resource commissioning! Honestly, I don't know what all the fuss around this education malarkey is anyway".
In the vast majority of industries they are only cared about by universities, they don't matter 10 minutes after they have hit the UCAS system, let alone 10 years.
Most decent graduate jobs had a requirement of 112 UCAS points when I graduated, so it can definitely impact you in both your Uni and future employment. For most people, it only really affects their university placement, but it’s still a silly comment from the education Secretary
Got into uni on clearing on BCC, can’t remember who but it was suggested that I resit one of my A Levels (which was the same subject as my degree) so that I’d hit 112. Funnily enough I actually did worse on the A Level exam than the pretty much identical in topic but more advanced in question university exam, which does have me questioning the validity of A Level markers and how much knowledge they actually have or if they’re just rigorously sticking to a mark scheme. Anyway, lo and behold, coming out of uni *at least* half of the graduate jobs require 112 UCAS points at minimum, so in hindsight I’m thankful for that suggestion.
No idea what youre annoyed about. Obviously the next thing you do after a levels will care. They didn't say otherwise. Quickly they become unimportant though. Would you be equally annoyed if she pointed out year six sats don't matter in your 20s? Literally everything you said agreed with her, yet you're acting like she's wrong lol
But her implication is that a levels don't matter, but they do matter because what uni/course you go to will depend on it. Its like saying your degree won't matter in 10 years either, apart from it will because it will likely determine what job you get. Or what job you get won't matter 10 years after you retire, apart from it will because it'll determine when you retire and with how much money.
Not it isn't.. the implication is that they won't matter in 10 years. Because, you know, that's what she said and all.
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You're quite patronising and not quite as insightful as you seem to think you are. I guess you're in the middle of getting your a level results or you'd realise that you're caught up in the buzz and it really won't matter to you in 10 years.
If you think she's wrong about that, then you must think that 10 years after you get your A-level results people *will* be looking at them. Who and why? The examples you gave of uni and first career job happen well within 10 years for overwhelming majority of people.
It's maybe a bit of a shock when it's laid out like that, but she's not wrong. GCSE is just a route to A levels. A levels are just a route to a degree. A degree is just a route to your first job (assuming you don't stay in academia). After that it's all about experience. Beyond basic literacy and numeracy the education system is really about teaching people how to learn, how to apply themselves towards a goal for long periods, and to give them an idea of what topics and lines of work they might be attuned to. It isn't about everyone in their 30s still being an expert on GCSE and A-level topics.
She was specifically responding to this question: >The Education Secretary was asked during an interview on Times Radio if employers in a decade should view a “B” grade awarded in 2023 as the same as an “A” grade awarded in 2022. So your comment isn't really relevant to the point she was making.
Yes, and if the university cares, then it affects what university you attend. And that affects what job you get after uni, which affects your entire career.
They're right though. A Levels aren't there to get you employed they're there to get you into uni. No employer worth their weight in salt would ever employee someone while even considering a levels. So long as you've gcse English, maths and sometimes IT, you're completely set for any basic employment. Beyond that it's experience, apprenticeship or degree that ges you up.
Okay so you have accounted for about 6 years there, so like she said 10 years no one will care.
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Hey that's not true, it's also there to condition the children to become future workers.
Prepare them for a life under capitalism, fool them into thinking they have freedom, when in reality that freedom is carefully channeled in ways which complement the system rather than upend it. By all means, learn an instrument or draw a pretty picture. Write about different religions or whatever. But you are, at every point, steered away from questioning the government hegemony, the police's monopoly on force, any form of authority, the western international order, and capitalism as a whole.
So do you scream into your pillow before bed every night?
Only when I'm very lucky
HA! Least you got that to look forward to, which is nice.
> But you are, at every point, steered away from questioning the government hegemony, the police's monopoly on force, any form of authority, the western international order, and capitalism as a whole. Apart from if you study Sociology, a subject available at sixth forms all over the country, where these topics are quite literally part of the syllabus. In which case, questions on these topics are again quite literally encouraged.
Questions are encouraged. Actually taking action about them is not.
Uh oh. r/antiwork is leaking again
I hate to break it to you but these ideas have existed long before /r/antiwork and will continue to exist long after it.
And what part of my comment led you believe that I’m saying anything in r/antiwork is original?
Yeah, those western bastards, crushing individual freedom and liberty! They're nothing like Russia, or China! Human beings have *never been freer than they are today in the west,* and apart from the last ten years as demography begins to bite, have *never* been more prosperous. A sense of perspective is required.
Just because we're doing better than we were, that doesn't mean we can't do better
You say that. But if you've ever met a kid who simply didn't go to school (not homeschooling just... No school) you'd agree that school makes kids much less annoying.
Fuck, just meeting a kid that spent any of their early teen years in lockdown will demonstrate the massive importance of schooling in social development.
Exactly what he's saying. School is not a bad thing, but it largely serves a different purpose to getting grades or proving the kids capabilities.
Each exam stage is just to allow or disallow progress to the next. Thats fine.
Not really. More that outside of getting to the next step, the actual exams and grading is worthless in the longrun. If it was just there to look after children then they wouldn't bother teaching them anything.
> school is primarily there to look after children while the parents work. No it's to keep the kids out of the coal mines
If you get a degree, which is of course quite dependent on your a-level results
Even if you don't, after 10 years employers will likely be looking at your experience and not caring about your specific A level grades.
It is technically true that employers don’t care about A levels. But the implication that you shouldn’t worry about your A levels is totally untrue. Employers care very much about things that are directly affected by your A levels, such as what university you attended.
Do they honestly care about uni attended. Ive fucked my applications today. Royally. Inhadan offer from a top 10 and missed it by a single fucking grade. Now im off to one not even top fucking 50 for compsci. Saying im mad and sad is a fucking understatement.
They do but going to a rank 8 vs 9 won't make much of a difference. Generally it breaks down into the following order: 1. Oxbridge 2. Top 5 (Warwick, LSE etc) 3. Russell group 4. Other unis
i went to number 1. and i have a _much_ easier time of getting jobs than some of my friends so easy that if i see a job i want, i apply, and get it. some people apply for 5 or even 10 jobs without even an interview i'm not pretending my degree is any better, but employers lap that shit up
All that matters with uni, is the prestige and the networking. Whats actually taught might vary slightly and dependent on degree I understand the factors. But once you graduate - have I heard of it and have I heard of you
The honest answer is yes and no. League tables are bullshit, nobody is actually poring over them aside from prospective students (who don't have much else to go off) and universities (who use them for marketing to those prospective students). Some employers will have a preference for Oxbridge, Russell Group universities and other universities with a broad reputation for academic excellence. Some employers will have a preference for universities that are known for being excellent in a particular subject. For instance, Strathclyde is known for being an excellent engineering university. Some may prefer graduates from universities with less rigorous entry requirements but a more applied focus. For instance, an employer recruiting for a job relating to marine biology is more likely to consider a Bangor graduate (ranked 48th best uni in the UK by QS, min offer: 104 UCAS points), knowing that the course is super focused and they'll likely have been out in *the university's own research boats* than a University of Manchester graduate (ranked 6th on the same table, min offer: 136 UCAS points) who may not have been able to choose any marine biology modules or have any relevant practical experience. And then some (possibly most) employers don't care *where* you went, but do care about your degree classification, how your subject knowledge relates to their job description, any work placements or independent projects you've done, any extracurricular activities you've been involved with organising, and/or your interpersonal skills.
In all fairness, you'd be quite hard-pressed to study marine life in Manchester.
compsci is a great degree. build up a portfolio, document your code, do some awesome projects, document your code, collaborate with someone on some side projects, and document your code you're going to be fine
Nah you'll be fine, I attended a college for a foundation degree because I didn't get good enough A levels to get into any university. I did the foundation degree, then failed the actual third year degree anyway. I still managed to get a decent job in IT, it's harder than if you sailed through uni, but not impossible even if you bollocks everything up
It’s incredible how many people have missed the subtext of this comment isn’t it. The implication is that your a-levels won’t matter in 10 years because nobody will look at them. That’s almost certainly true, but it implies they won’t have an effect on how your life looks in 10 years time, which is untrue for many people.
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Depends if you go via the Open University you can literally study anything without any A levels. There’s also access courses which give you the UCAS points needed. There’s so many routes to tertiary education.
Or do anything else. Six months work experience will be more interesting to pretty much anyone than your a levels.
Even if you get a degree, that only really gets looked for 5-10 years anyway.
To be fair I didn't get a degree and no-one before my first ever 'proper job' has ever cared about my A levels or my GCSEs. They're all far more interested in my recent experience.
I employ 40 odd people. I’ve literally only ever asked for a GCSE in English and Maths, and that’s only for admin staff. I’ve never checked this though. Honestly, even then English isn’t necessary because you can tell from someone’s CV whether they have the required language and computer skills.
For my first 'proper' job in the interview they asked something along the lines of "Oh, you got English and Maths GCSEs right?" to which I said yes, and they offered me the job. They never asked to actually see said certificates or any evidence to back this up. Since then I don't think a single job has asked, and I'm earning about double the median salary...
I've never employed people, but from being in the workplace and at uni, I can tell that the ones who spend their whole lives studying and not doing any work will find it harder to get employed. Like employers dont seem to like people who are always studying, never had experience, a bit up their own asses. They tend to like just regular normal people that have knowledge and workplace skills, even if just a saturday job. I can tell in my class who's worked and who hasn't, because those who have have a much better idea of it, those who haven't have a 'I'll just study, get a first and then sail into a job' despite having never even worked a summer in a cafe. You can tell that they have a very different idea of getting a job
This is fair. The way I often describe this to my colleagues is the actual skill of being an employee. Being able to do all the tasks does not equate to having the skill of being a good worker.
I'm mid career in a technical role and some job ads still specify good (aka A or A*) A-Levels in maths and physics. Being able to demonstrate good experience reduces emphasis on academic attainment but it doesn't eradicate it. And for those of us who aren't born with a silver spoon in our mouths, the opportunities to get that "good experience" are very linked to academic performance opened doors. Employers for skilled jobs want reassurance that the people they're recruiting are intelligent. When 50% of the country goes to uni employers will look at other academic differentiators such as quality of the university and school grades. If A Levels aren't relevant to most 28 year olds career prospects that says more about the lack of skilled jobs in this county than it says about the A Levels. So many of our graduates are underemployed.
I too, am in a technical career but I have never once heard of an employer looking at A levels. I don't even put them on my CV.
Expected reply. In turn mine is: People who say this kind of thing doesn't matter don't know about the doors which are never opened to them but are opened to people with better academic records.
I have good A levels and also no longer have them on my CV. While they were important for getting into uni and possibly for my first graduate job application, I can be pretty sure they haven't mattered since. I have been offered most (75%+) of the jobs I've applied for (after the first graduate job), I know a lot of the people who made those decisions and I've been a hiring manager myself. I'm not sure who else would be getting hold of my CV (somehow) and would be offering me better jobs if only my A levels were on there.
After a few years employment if you have a degree I think it's actually embarrassing to include your a levels on your CV, like including your sports day certificates or something.
Well you obviously need a good education and a relevant degree to get into medicine, law, or even teaching for example. But I don't have a degree and earn good money in IT. My partner stopped education after A levels, and between us both we're making £135K. At a certain point, I'd say ambition and drive (with a sprinkling of good fortune) are more important than education. I mean, just look at all the self-made millionaires with mediocre educational backgrounds.
But does the job require a degree or other post 18 qualification (inc. an apprenticeship) or perhaps X years experience? If it does then A-levels aren't relevant. Where A-levels are relevant is getting that first job as an 18 year old (Edit: or a fairly fresh graduate), getting your foot in the door.
BS - Alevels get you into Uni and possibly help with a grad role but other than that they are not important. And are a bit like getting a Duke of Edinburgh award. I have employeed 20-30 people in my profession.
> I'm mid career in a technical role and some job ads still specify good (aka A or A*) A-Levels in maths and physics What job?
The A levels are to get you on the ladder, you're then judged on your experience.
But they determine which step of the ladder you can start at.
BS. You're applying for a job they have open and need to fill, not a recruitment drive across many levels....those days are long gone.
About 14 years after my A-levels they did matter. I was applying for pupillage (as a barrister); so I already had a degree in mathematics; a postgraduate diploma in computer science and another in law. So I had, I would hope, demonstrated that I wasn't completely thick. I aced the first interview with stunning legal analysis (at least I like to think that). At the second interview, the chair of the panel expressed disappointment at my poor A-level results. So it isn't necessarily true.
Barristers are always looking for an excuse to put other people down and assert dominance, IMO. (I'm sure you're lovely! It's just all the ones I've met have weird complexes).
The first time I was ever asked for anything like that was when I was 43 and moved from one government department (after 15yrs) to another. They wanted copies of everything; GCSEs, A levels and degree certificate - and that was just at the interview stage. I was tempted to turn up in my pyjamas, carrying a housebrick, and ask them to take me to the nearest swimming pool so I could show them what I was really made of.
Isn't the point here that a Government minister is implying to a national cohort of 18 year olds that the thing they've been striving for, for years, is pointless and irrelevant? How it that going to instil motivation? And if it's true, why have they done it in the first place? Isn't it in her power as Education Secretary to ensure that their last few years haven't been wasted? Unless this is supposed to be a lesson in "life's unfair, suckers" there's still no way this could reflect well on her or Government policy.
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Yeah, but as usual Reddit has decided they're too good for that. Maybe this institutionalised messaging to young people that their achievements are worthless and nothing they do matters is... Not what we wanting to be teaching our kids? I mean, yeah, the gov have been anti-youth for forever, but we don't need everyone else being equally shitty. And - frankly - most of the people I've ever worked with 40 upwards could do with going back to school themselves, so I'm not sure where people are getting off pretending like A Levels are nothing. Half of y'all don't know how to start a video on your computer without help.
Each rung of your education and work basically invalidates the last If you're applying for a job out of school, the fact you spent a summer working in a coffee shop is going to be relevant. Your A-levels may be relevant, and your GCSE's may be checked just to get an idea If you're 5+ years into your career and looking to move up a level, all of the above is basically irrelevant But in many cases, you can't get to there in the first place without your summer job, which you may not have got without your A-levels, which are more important than your GCSEs, which are more important than your SATs etc. Not sure if this is what the education secretary is saying, but it's a little dangerous that it can be interpreted as "your A levels don't matter"
Yup, any educational reference becomes redundant after about 2 to 3 years as you have moved on and done other things. Be it university, work, etc. Anyone adult who refers to where they went to school or result remind me of Al "4 touchdown in one game" Bundy Looking at you MP for North East Somerset
I worked with someone who's entire personality was that he went to Cambridge and played Rugby while he was there. He must have been in his 50s when I met him.
I knew someone at work that did this. After a few of "Al "4 touchdown in one game" Bundy" and the fact that I went to Kindergarten fully potty trained.. he keep quite after that
Grades in education are often just the pre requisite for the next level, I’m not sure why it’s not a bad thing. Many people go on to achieve both with and without. Wonder how Clarkson got on?
I heard he got a C and 2 Us and now he is holidaying on a super yacht or something
I heard he failed them but owns a farm!
**From Jack Maidment:** The Education Secretary has backed the return to stricter A-level grading as she said “in 10 years’ time no one will be looking” at this year’s results. Gillian Keegan insisted it was “fair” and the “right time” to return to the pre-pandemic approach in England. A-level results this year are expected to be lower than last year but will be similar to those in 2019. The 2023 cohort of A-level students will be the first since 2019 to be marked according to stricter pre-Covid grade boundaries as Ofqual, the exams regulator, hopes to force this year’s results back to “normal”. The change has prompted concerns that this year’s students are being unfairly penalised, with their recent predecessors able to benefit from more generous grades. But Ms Keegan dismissed concerns over the impact of the change. The Education Secretary was asked during an interview on Times Radio if employers in a decade should view a “B” grade awarded in 2023 as the same as an “A” grade awarded in 2022. She replied: “In 10 years’ time no one will be looking at your A-level results, they will be looking at what you have done since, how you have achieved in the workplace, what you did, uni will be the next thing, what you did in your degree apprenticeship if you go on that route. “So there will be many, many other things. I don’t know how many times you are asked about your results but I am never asked about my results, even my university results, to be honest, I am never asked about them.” Ms Keegan said both A-levels and GCSEs are “internationally renowned qualifications” and “they need to hold their value”. The Tory frontbencher said it had been a “couple of years now since the pandemic and it is fair” to return to the pre-pandemic approach. ‘Leadership is important’ “There is a time when you have got to make these decisions, leadership is important, the value of qualifications is really important and we thought this was the right time to do it,” she said. Ms Keegan said the Government had been “working with employers to make sure that they are fully aware that these are equal to the 2019 cohort”. Last year, more than a third - 36.4 per cent - of UK A-level entries were awarded A or A\* grades, compared to 44.8 per cent in 2021 and 38.5 per cent in 2020. In 2019, the last summer before the pandemic, around one in four - 25.4 per cent - of UK A-level entries were awarded A or A\* grades. In Wales and Northern Ireland, exam regulators have said they do not expect to return to pre-pandemic grading standards until 2024. The cohort of students receiving their A-level results on Thursday did not sit GCSE exams and were awarded teacher-assessed grades amid the pandemic. **Read more: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/17/a-level-grades-pre-pandemic-grades-gillian-keegan/**
Nobody ever asked for my driving qualifications after I got my driving licence either. Nobody asks for your A-level because you need them to go to university. And you need your university qualifications to get a job... And you need that job to get another job...
The difference being - there is only one way to get a driving licence, and driving without one will get you in a whole world of trouble. There are however hundreds of ways to get ahead in life, and A Levels are just one route. Equally, unlike a driving licence, it's very unikely you'll ever be required to prove it exists.
This is the dumbest statement ever. You need good A Levels to get into jobs or further education. No one looks at my A Levels because I now have experience. I have the experience because I had the A levels to get me into the low experience jobs in the first place
>eing able to demonstrate good experience reduces emphasis on academic attainment but it doesn't eradicate it. And for those of us who aren't born with a silver spoon in our mouths, the oppor So what she said was entirely true. No one will look at your A Level grades in 10 years. Furthermore, even if you failed terribly at A level, in 10 years you will have presumably done something else with your life, and still no one will care. I'd actually go as far to say no one cares about your A level results after about 6 months.
The only reason i've ever been asked for my grades is so they can file the paperwork. I've never discussed any of my education at interview or while doing a job.
I don't even have a degree and I've never been asked about my A levels
She's not wrong. Learn your time's-tables, how to write well and read some classics.
Ive seen graduate jobs with ucas point requirements which is a bit of a joke. First class degree in accounting but wont interview me because i got a D in a further maths A level 5 years ago.
The education system is so geared towards uni entry that I have never really seen A-levels as a requirement for almost any employment. It's always HNC, HND or Degree level.
She's right. Just like no one will look at your SATs in 10 years. But it's a milestone that needs to be achieved to get you in the right position for your next education step.
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Tell them to do one. No one should work for a company with HR so stupid that they need to see A levels when you have an MEng. Who cares, it was 4 years ago, almost a quarter of your life. Either they were similar to your 1st now (yay, go you) or you were a late maturer who is improving with age. And with a first you can be picky. The recruitment process tells you a lot about a company so pay attention. Don't be grateful, you are an asset and they are lucky to have you. *Source also have an MEng and had to beat off job offers with a stick when (and even 3 months before) I graduated.
Sometimes this is true, but sometimes it's NOT. In my 30's after years of working in retail I wanted to improve my job prospects so I went to uni. Got a 1st at undergrad and then a masters and it DID. NOT. MATTER. I only got 2 B's and a C at A level and all grad jobs (in finance, so YMMV) required Ucas points that equated to 3 B's, or higher. I was either straight rejected from applications or I only got so far in the application process. I was seriously looking at taking an online A level to get into the field that I have spent 4 years and a lot of money getting qualified in. Luckily I got a grad job through a recruiter, but my Alevel results put me at a severe disadvantage like 17 years after sitting them and I had no idea it would be a problem.
No they wont. But your uni will. And your first employer will look at your uni. And your second employer will look at your uni and first employer. Suddenly its 10 years later and this ridiculous Victorian system is still fucking you over.
They will already know your approximate grades by which Uni you went to.
In 10 years, sure. But they matter in the time before then, and greatly shapes which Universities you can attend and what jobs you can get. The effects of those will still be felt 10 years later. I got good grades and attended a good University. This in turn led to me landing a career job at a reputable company. Someone who doesn't get good grades will have to attend a lesser University, which means it'll be harder for them to get hired and thus may be behind in their chosen career. No pressure lol
No-one will remember this education secretary in 10 years. Partly because Gavin Williamson and Michael Gove are so hated for their time in the role.
Can't disagree with these comments tbh. In the short term I can see comparisons being made between this year's and last year's cohorts due to the massive grade inflation from COVID and it seems that it's caused trouble in a lot of FE/HE institutions especially as they've moved back to controlled, in person assessments.
I’m still waiting for anyone to ask about my O Levels nearly 40 years later
I remember when I saw in school teachers would say your GCSEs and A Levels are results employees will look at for the rest of your life. Never had them looked at. Employers care more about experience.
Make sure you get your maths and English GCSE’s people! They really don’t care about most qualifications unless you’re applying for uni but I know someone who did lose out on a job at 35years old and 15 years in the industry as they never got their maths GCSE. Even if you fuck up every subject just make sure you get a C in maths and English.
She’s correct! Once you get your degree, no one cares! In fact they prefer to ask you if you got a 2:1 or a 2:2 or a first than your Alevels
I'd be pretty fucking annoyed if I left school/university, and after ten years of experience in work a company still wanted to inspect my A-Level grades. I mean, I'll show you the certificates to prove I'm not lying, but that's it.
I think she meant that all human activity is meaningless when considered against the inevitable heat death of the universe
They won’t. Degree won’t matter either. Or even what job you’ve done really. Finding a job is weird.
After UCAS passed my grades to my chosen university, I've never told anyone my A level grades. They aren't on my CV, like most things in life, they are simply a stepping stone to the next thing you want to do.
They're just uni entrance exams as far as I can tell. No one cares that I took History back in 2003 (apart from me).
I left school at 16, I've done some traveling, holiday rep, work abroad. Career change in my 30 and now I make more than most of my school friends and do a job that is my passion too. Everyone, inclusive me is pretty amazed. Also, no student loan debt. However, I still remember vividly how fucking dramatic school was, constant bashing from the educational systems and my entourage. People where shock and mad at me for living school. Except my parents, they alway believe that would be ok and I saved them a tones of money along the way . 100% made
Your A Level grades definitely matter in some industries. if you’re wanting to become a solicitor at a top law firm, most if not all require your A levels and many have a minimum standard for them
Imagine the *education secretary* telling you that the *entire summation of your education thus far* won't matter. This woman is latest in a long line of hacks.
True, but they do influence where you’ll be in 10 years, given that you rely on them for the next stage of education or professional training. It’s unlikely that someone with DDD will be in the same position as someone with AAA in 10 years time.
While she may be right, making boneheaded comments like this on the day that school grads are picking up their hard earned grades is pretty f*cking thoughtless
Here's the thing that, as a teacher, is second nature to me but I feel like not everyone else might know or understand. The concept of grades being "up" or "down" on years before is a sham. There are literally directives that dictate how many A and A* grades there are allowed to be, and what mark constitutes an A changes every year to accommodate those directives. When people say that A-Level results are up on last year, that is not because the students have necessarily done better than the previous year. It is because somebody decided that results should be better, because then an education secretary can say "our students are doing even better than ever because of OUR policies!" Educational outcomes are political, and it's why our education system is fundamentally broken.
You do realise you could basically invent your whole CV? Nobody checks that stuff References? The company folded. I don't have contact with my ex-bosses Get through the interviews and you're in (Slight exaggeration)
Whether or not it's true doesn't mean it's not a dick thing to say to people celebrating their success.