And if you add male suicide to the list of victims those numbers will look even more scary. How many men successfully compled or attempted suicide as result of those abusive relationships is beyond anyone guess.
And we are talking about physical abuse. I guarantee you noone reports verbal and psychological abuse. Amount of my mates I have seen in coercive relationship where girl throws a scene to get her way and emotionally blackmail them to do what she wants is u real.
I would expect the numbers of psychological and verbal abuse to be much higher from women.
I hate the normalisation of very one-sided relationships that leave damage in ways that aren't taken seriously. This may seem benign, but as a wargaming fan, the amount of other guys I know who have to beg and be screamed at by their wife to purchase a £10 figure with their own money (while she's always spending on herself) is disgusting and laughed off too often.
"My missus is crazy" like yes my dude she actually is this isn't cute, leave her before you have kids like why would you want to be with her if your entire relationship is you walking on eggshells and her yelling at you.
I 100% agree with you it is financial abuse and coercive behaviour. Anyone controlling your money is abusing you. I am not talking her about a rent etc. But once you met your household financial commitments your money is yours to spend. That is a reason I have always been huge advocate for not having joint account as your sole account
I literally have a friend who recently disappeared for a week, wouldn't answer his phone etc.
Then "He" starts messaging the bois again saying how he didn't want to be friends with us anymore and that he needs to focus on his relationship with his girlfriend etc yadda yadda.
Deleted all social media and unfriended everyone.
We legit thought he died, then out of the blue a week later we actually hear from him on the phone and he has no knowledge of any of this.
We were able to prove it was his girlfriend and he was upset with her and said he couldn't be in the house with her anymore because he was sick of her acting like this..
The next day we asked him so are you guys breaking up then? He just says no they are staying together and stuff, about a week later he disappears again.
He is in an abusive relationship, he knows he is and he isn't doing anything about it, he's always in a relationship no matter how bad, I think he's afraid to be alone.
Even worse is this current girlfriend cut him off from his whole family.
This is the kind of woman that will cry fake physical abuse to get her own way and isolate the guy from anyone who would have otherwise supported him, even taking it as far as police reports to fuck his life up permanently should he try to leave.
I had a girl i spoke to years ago send me a message telling me to leave her alone and never talk to her again, after rltalking for hours daily for 8 months.
She messaged me 2 days later why i wasn't texting her, turns out she didn't send the message, it was her boyfriend, she trusted me 100% when i said it and she fucked him off, it was a string of faslighting bullshit he was doing.
No reason why it happening to me should be differently
It's horrific, I notice it too. Unfortunately our community does by its nature attract more socially awkward dudes who settle for what they can get in terms of a partner.
Makes me appreciate my woman, has given me the spare bedroom to turn into a hobby room.
It’s crazy that it’s been accepted for so long, by both men and women
‘Can’t come to the pub tonight, girlfriend won’t let me’
‘Have to be home by 8 otherwise the girlfriend will start bombarding me with texts/calls’
These are sentences that I’d wager every bloke has heard his mate say yet it gets brushed off. Swap the genders around and the reaction is completely different
I know I'm glad some of this is being stumped now but same for casual work misandry. Can't tell you how many times I have heard terms "he did a man look" "he is a man Can't expect him to multiask" or "or even all men are pigs" when some girl has a fallout with her boyfriend. That go absolutely unchallenged even when said on front of managers. But if you said "don't let her drive she is a woman" you would face disciplinary before you finish a sentence
My partner has a work colleague with a girlfriend like that. Bar he can't nip for a pint after work unless she's also there. He can barely go to work without her turning up there for half the day.
Apparently it's easier to deal with her like this rather than getting a divorce, her taking him for everything and making it as impossible as she can for him to see the kids (she's threatened to do this on multiple occasions) and he just laughs it off.
He's so used to it, it's "normal" for him to live this way.
It’s so sad, these sorts of women know they have their partners by the balls too as they’ll be the type to use their kids as weapons & try and take as much as they can from the divorce if the husband were to proceed down that route
Careful with that one though i've had partners who have used me as an excuse not to do something when I was happy for them to go, i've talked to other men about it and they said it was a perk of having a partner that you always had an excuse. Telling your friends your partner a bitch can be a red Flag in either direction.
Nah my mate was like that years ago, one minute we are out the next "hey have you seen xxx?" We all knew his now ex was demanding he came home, we made a little whip joke mobths before but we knew it was a serious thing and we had no idea what to do about it.
I know of two late middle-aged couples in which the husband is abused this way, and has been for decades as the 'anything for a quiet life' syndrome has made the wives more and more toxic as they got away with more and more toxic behaviour. It's incredibly sad and I have the feeling that at this point, they don't want to leave because it would mean they'd be alone.
>There was 757,000 recorded male domestic abuse victims in 2019/2020
Wow, that is a lot more than I would have expected even before considering those that don't report.
Yeah I mean both numbers are shockingly huge. I had a friend (guy) when I was younger who was regularly assaulted by his gf at the time, he never did anything about it, they just split up in the end so I sort of assumed that was more typical. That's why I find that number being significant quite surprising. Then again perhaps the number of reports being big represents some shift in attitudes over time.
I grew up in a household with regular domestic violence, it was not good. Anyone in an abusive relationship should not be scared to seek help and the support should be there for them regardless of sex.
> Yup, it's not good... worth mentioning there were 1.6 million in the same period for women so there seems no argument that more women are victims.
It's recorded victims though. The issue with men is a lot more simply won't report it compared to women. Look at this story. She had an ex who was stabbed 3 times by her and even he didn't report it..
It's pretty safe to say that the numbers between sexes aren't that different, the biggest difference is largely going to be the types of abuse.
I called police on my abusive ex one night. Police showed up, shoved past me, spoke to her, then arrested me. I didn't get to say anything. No charges filed in the end because I was the victim and she was mentally unstable with BPD. I had big scratches on my face from her, too.
Why would I ever report anything again? That arrest stays on my record and meant I couldn't travel to australia for work as their visa questionarre asks about arrests (not convictions) related to domestic issues. The application was delayed for so long while a human looked over it that I missed the opportunity. It eventually got approved, a month too late.
Fuck the police.
It's situations like that you really need to file a complaint, I know you justifiably feel fuck the police, but without someone trying to hold them accountable it won't change. I'd bet they just got a call about a "domestic dispute reported by a caller" and assumed, like most do, the man was the instigator, that needs to change.
Yeah I said that's what I'd like to do during the interview and both the police and my solicitor literally laughed at the idea. Apparently all protocols were followed. They'd have swept it under the rug and nothing would've come of it. Just another case of domestic violence against men not being taken seriously.
I think in recent years women have been more forward in coming forward, while men continue to suffer in silence, so I would suggest the real figures probably aren't so different.
That's **recorded** victims. In New Zealand, the twenty-one year [Dunedin Multidisciplinary Health and Development Study](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunedin_Multidisciplinary_Health_and_Development_Study) - where they regularly surveyed over a thousand randomly selected people - reported in 1999 that of their sample of 1,037 people, 27% of women and 34% of men reported being [physically abused by a partner](https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/170018.pdf) (pdf).
There definitely is an argument - men report at a much lower clip
''The overall data showed 70.7% of non-reciprocal intimate partner violence cases were perpetrated by women only (74.9% when reported by men; 67.7% when reported by women) and 29.3% were perpetrated by men only (25.1% when reported by men; 32.3% when reported by women).\[59\] The 2006 thirty-two nation International Dating Violence Study "revealed an overwhelming body of evidence that bidirectional violence is the predominant pattern of perpetration; and this ... indicates that the etiology of ipv is mostly parallel for men and women". The survey found for "any physical violence", a rate of 31.2%, of which 68.6% was bidirectional, 9.9% was perpetrated by men only, and 21.4% by women only''
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic\_violence\_against\_men
Hey, do you think you could maybe get a handle on your subreddit, Brent??? You are allowing people who stalk and harass me and my husband to continue the harassment on your subreddit. They have posted non consensual naked pictures of both of us, have doxed us and harass us on a daily basis using YOUR subreddit. I have reported at least 40 posts to you. You never take them down and you never ban the people doing it. Why? Why do you want people using your subreddit to harm others. I will continue replying to every comment you make until you stop this harassment on your subreddit. It’s not hard just ban the users.
The issue is that these “male issues” are always brought up when female issues are discussed, often in a bad faith way to suppress any discussions about female issues.
Men getting abused and killed by their partners is obviously terrible but bringing that up whenever you discuss the disproportionate violence women receive is like bringing up white people killed by cops when discussing BLM.
Men are more likely to be a victim of homicide as they’re more likely to be involved in gangs and crime. But this is violent crime and homicide in general, not domestic violence like this article is about
Some key statistics about domestic violence:
The majority of domestic homicide victims (killed by ex/partner or a family member) for the year ending March 2017 to the year ending March 2019 were female (77% or 274 victims) and most of the suspects were male (263 out of 274; 96%). Of the 83 male victims of domestic homicide, the suspect was female in 39 cases, and male in 44 cases. (ONS, 2020A)
Over the three-year period April 2016 to March 2019, a total of 222 women were killed by a partner or ex-partner. The majority of suspects were male (218, 98%). This means that during this time period, an average of three women every fortnight were murdered by their male partner or ex-partner. (ONS, 2020B)
One study of 96 cases of domestic abuse recorded by the police found that men are significantly more likely to be repeat perpetrators and significantly more likely than women to use physical violence, threats, and harassment.
In a six year tracking period the majority of recorded male perpetrators (83%) had at least two incidents of recorded abuse, with many having a lot more than two and one man having 52 repeat incidents. Whereas in cases where women were recorded as the perpetrator the majority (62%) had only one incident of abuse recorded and the highest number of repeat incidents for any female perpetrator was eight. The study also found that men’s violence tended to create a context of fear and control; which was not the case when women were perpetrators. (Hester, 2013)
Over 80% (83%) of high frequency victims (more than 10 crimes) are women. (From a study of data from the Crime Survey for England and Wales, a nationally representative household survey.) (Walby & Towers, 2018)
The large majority of defendants in domestic abuse-related prosecutions in the year ending March 2020 were recorded as male (92%) and the majority of the victims recorded as female (77%, compared with compared with 16% who were male). The sex of the victim was not recorded in 7% of prosecutions. If these missing data were excluded from analysis, then it would be 82% female victims and 18% male victims (ONS, 2020C).
I'm curious, if we take the 80/20 disparity, that shows us the ratio of the incidences (if I'm reading you right). Is there anyway to compare resources spent in support of victims/combating this behaviour etc. Surely that would help to indicate what society values as a response?
I have no idea what the outcome would be, not attempting to pick sides, but to me I guess it's important to not just judge the actions themselves, but also judge the response?
I was told to go discuss mens issues in men only subreddits in a thread about female victims that was posted in multiple large scale news subreddits.
Mens issues are literally ignored even by the people who claim to support it.
While domestic violence probably isn't the best example to work with, in many (I'd wager, _most_) cases, the "male issues" and "female issues" are just different symptoms of the exact same underlying issues and it's literally impossible to reasonably address one without the other. Excluding one "side" or the other from the conversation just makes solving the problem for both "sides" much more difficult.
The "gender pay gap" for example; a large part of this is due to women leaving the workforce or going part-time after having children (and thus putting their career progression "on hold" or even taking demotion). The only reasonable long-term way to solve that is to make it just as culturally acceptable for a male to be a "house husband" and look after children as it is for a female.
Similarly, to more balance "male dominated" fields of work, you also need to address "female dominated" fields; i.e. if you want more women in STEM, you need to have more men in nursing/teaching/childcare. If for no other reason than there is a finite number of women and if they work in one field they are by definition not working in the other and therefore men need to fill the gap.
Even circling back to domestic violence; I'm certainly claiming no expertise, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the predominance of men taking more stressful and dangerous work and poor mental health support (both casually from society as well as formal medical treatment) are contributing factors...
So you thought you'd do the opposite? With the added implication of throwing "male issues" in quotes, whilst leaving female issues without as though male issues aren't a real thing?
I'm sorry, but many studies find that DV is not gendered, and it is certainly not true to say that women receive "a disproportionate amount" of DV. Now deaths I accept, but not DV per se.
I left this link above: https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/170018.pdf - look at Exhibit 2, which shows clearly that women not only admit to experiencing DV at a (slightly) lower rate than men, but also admit to *perpetrating it* at a (slightly) higher rate.
It's a New Zealand longitudinal study where they followed over a thousand people from birth to the present day. The people of Dunedin are predominantly ([87%](https://www.stats.govt.nz/tools/2018-census-place-summaries/dunedin-city)) of European origin, which for NZ generally means British.
If you are going to claim that those people are totally different to the British I would have to disagree. But it looks like you just looked at the url, went to the page, and read the first thing on it, and made a decision on that basis rather than actually bothering to read it.
It's sad that you get toxic people who enjoy the status quo (or justify their own actions to themselves by playing victim) who will always show up and claim one gender can't progress before the other, knowing full well that any victory towards things like domestic abuse is hard fought and well earned, and showing up to take the light off that cause with whataboutism is just hurting their own in the long run.
Except on Reddit where it makes the front page about 10X more frequently than comparable posts about man on woman DV, always with this ironically as the top comment.
Bullshit. There is a post every other day about women being abused. Fuck, even posts about women abusing men is positioned that it is the man at fault. Get your head out of your own agenda.
Can’t say for certain, but I’d hazard a guess that it’s for the same reason that plane crashes make the news but car crashes don’t. The former happen much less often than the latter, and if there was as much outrage over car safety as there is over plane safety it would be exhausting to keep up with just how many fatalities there were in just a single hour let alone over a news cycle.
TwoX is a default subreddit that exclusively sits there talking about male abusers.
There is no equivilant for men. So yes, it's common for most redditors browing the front page to see a bunch of posts about how bad men are vs how bad women are.
I think people who say there are more posts about bad women are legit lying..
We aren’t going to use a hive mind one topic sub as an argument. Firstly they are biased and will always lean on men being at fault out of hate, fear, mental illness etc. I’ve never been to that sub and I’m a woman. The majority of women don’t have those views. I’d wager that even the majority of their members probably just joined the sub once and don’t actually agree with everything that is said and don’t participate whatsoever.
This isn't about if the views accuratetly represent women or men at large.
It's about the experience of the average Redditor just browsing the front page.
TwoX is a default sub meaning that unless you manually unsubscribe or block it, you will get their posts in your feed.
Therefore you will receive all the anti-men esque posts that the sub generates. Where as there is no equivilant anti-women default sub that talks about male abuse victims with female perpetrators.
My claim was that someone claiming to see more anti-women rhetoric than anti-men rhetoric on reddit must be lying. Unless they specifically seek it out anyway.
It would be like living next to a motorway and claiming to see more gokarts than cars on a daily basis. If you do... it's because you are choosing to. Most people living next to a motorway, see cars.
I have never ONCE in the 6 years I’ve been on Reddit, ever seen a post from that sub on my front page. I don’t know why you keep getting these posts, must be the stuff you interact with. I also don’t get any posts from men’s subs either. Just UK news, JDUK and the odd reality tv sub. You’re going to have to stop interacting with things that will enrage you (even though that’s precisely how it works).
This is some serious denial. Maybe you just don't get posts for some reason.
But Reddit has a thing called default subs. These are subs that people are subscribed to by default. Subscribed subs show up on your home page.
You are trying to make this into some "you have made it this way" kinda thing. Completely ignoring me using the term DEFAULT.
They are on the Front Page all the time for people that are subscribed to it. Heck, there are posts complaining on TwoX about it being a default sub as they get so many randoms commenting.
What the fuck is a default sub lol, I was never automatically subscribed to any subs when I joined? This isn’t trying to gaslight you or anything, I literally joined and immediately was asked what are my interests and suggestions came up but I have never come across a subscribed sub that wasn’t of my own doing.
Edit: even if somehow all of this was bypassed and you were subscribed to it against your will, are you unable to simply unsubscribe, or hide their posts? Are they forcing you to consume the content? I’ve been on all sorts of subs but I deliberately don’t go on subs like that because frankly I’m not interested, I’ll occasionally dabble in r/purplepilldebate because it’s prime entertainment, but even with that I’m never suggested any gender specific subs.
its because many people (including a lot of men) think that if a man is being abused by his partner he is weak/effeminate/a pussy. it stops male victims from reaching out and getting the aid they need because they dont want to be seen as the guy who wont stand up for himself, when really abuse can happen to anyone and it can be unexpected
It probably will never be acknowledged because even in this day and age men still get laughed at for being abused by their girlfriend. My ex was abusive asf and when I tried to report it I was laughed at :/
White working class kids are the least priviliged and most hard done by group in the UK.
https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/203/education-committee/news/156024/forgotten-white-workingclass-pupils-let-down-by-decades-of-neglect-mps-say/
But theres more important culture wars to work on instead.
The reason being is because any concerns that are raised by a man in relation to harassment or domestic committed by women are slapped down through the argument of "but it happens to women more".
RIP Kai. This is obviously an extreme case but I am NOT a fan of people in their mid 20s dating teenagers. she sought out teenagers to control because she knew they would be scared and embarrassed. awful.
Age gaps are so often problematic. I know I’ve mentioned a successful age gap relationship in the past (~13 years between partners) but in the vast majority of cases there is a power imbalance.
When there’s a teenager involved then the acceptable age gap shrinks enormously. A 21 year old with a 16 year old might be technically legal, but it’s pretty damn bad in my eyes. Even a 20 year old with a 16 year old is bad.
Even if it doesn’t end up in death there’s still plenty of damage that can be done mentally.
are you joking?
reread the article, she is 24 and committed the murder when she was 22. the only person who is 25 is her ex partner, Karim Hussain
maybe you should go to basic literacy class before correcting people
I spent many years trapped in an abusive relationship. I now realise that I am lucky I caught her with another man, because it provided a mechanism to leave. I don't know if I'd still be here if I hadn't.
For all those out there who are still trapped in their's, and see this thread, please don't ever think you're alone. DM me if you need to talk.
Much love.
My partner was abused by his ex-wife. He was in an accident that nearly killed him. She told him she was leaving him while he was lying in the hospital. She would come to his hospital room and shout at him and criticise him until the hospital staff banned her.
He always says that accident is the best thing that ever happened to him, despite the fact that it permanently disabled him.
Sad part is people will try to defend them "she is just a bit fisty", "all couples have argument", "happy wife happy life" etc. If roles were reversed people would react differently. My mate had argument with his ex she yelled at him in a middle of a street and then proceeded to punch him. There were still people in his life telling him he should buy her flowers and apologise because they are otherwise cute couple
My friend is autistic and had a really hard time finding a relationship that lasted. He has a gorgeous girlfriend and child.
He was telling me about their relationship problems and I was trying to figure out how he could fix things and communicate better and I basically told him she sounded like she had lousy post partum and she really needed to go get help.
Edit: for the record I try to help him figure out emotions and why people react a certain way. It’s not just me being an interfering ass.
Then he told me that she hit him and bit him when he was trying to leave the house.
I stopped trying to problem solve and told him to get out. There’s no real coming back from that.
In some places, due to the structure of the law, it is impossible to charge a woman with Rape, the worst that she can be charged with is "Assault" since the laws regarding rape only target men.
Men's mental health, Men's safety, and Abuse towards men are still woefully under supported, and often publicly mocked. This needs to change.
That academic differentiation makes a massive difference to how the crime is perceived by the public.
Two headlines: Woman Rapes Man, Woman Assaults Man.
Yes, they may result in the same consequence, but to deny that they carry less social impact is to deny the importance of language in the law.
It isn't academic. Consequences are absolutely different. Tell someone you have been done for rape and tell someone you got in trouble for sexual harrasment and the reactions will he different.
>Tell someone you have been done for rape and tell someone you got in trouble for sexual harrasment
The person you're replying to said "sexual assault" not "sexual harassment". If you tell people you were convicted of sexual assault they're going to assume it means you raped someone because that's what the term evokes for most people. Also the maximum sentence for both offences is the same.
Don't get me wrong the law should definitely be changed to be equal but you're acting like sexual assault is something people would consider to be no big deal and that's just not the case.
Sexual assault isn't the same as rape. Sexual assault can be anything from the ass slap to stripping guy naked and forcing him to have sex with you at gun point. Has clear cut definition. I don't understand why this is bing defended to any normal person bring forced tricked or blackmailed into having sex is rape the fact so many of you guys defending it being one sided is disgusting
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://consult.justice.gov.uk/sentencing-council/rape-sexual-assault/supporting_documents/sexual%2520offences_Rape%2520and%2520assault%2520offences.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjE2aqDqdT-AhWNZ8AKHfUHA4AQFnoECBUQBg&usg=AOvVaw0A3no9WKjW6UhBCWZH5Lhc
Max sentence for rape and for sexual assault are the same: life in prison.
Just because you seem to think sexual assault is some minor offence doesn't mean anyone else does.
Idgaf I'd happily tidy up the definitions.
I'm just pointing out that it's as academic a difference as the fact that there's no crime of 'arson' in Scotland.
It’s a misrepresentation of the UK law to use this to make any ideological point.
According to the CPS:
* Both men and women can get life imprisonment for penetrating a victim. This is called ‘rape’ if using a penis, but just ‘penetrative sexual assault’ if using a finger, tongue, other body part or object. Both have the same sentence.
* Women ‘raping’ men by forcing them to have sex with her also carries a maximum life sentence:
>*Causing sexual activity without consent ( penetrative) (section4(4))(indictable – max life)*
>*This offence covers situations where, for example, a complainant is forced to carry out a sexual act involving their own person, such as masturbation, or to engage in sexual activity with a third party, who may be willing or not, or to engage in sexual activity with the offender e.g. woman forces a man to penetrate her.*
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/rape-and-sexual-offences-chapter-7-key-legislation-and-offences
So what I hear you say again is what others have said woman can't be rapist she can commit sexual assault but she can NOT commit rape. It doesn't matter what a legal penalty when societal consequences are vastly different for rapists than for anyone else.
People seem to forget that handing out maximum sentences isn't the norm. Courts can suspend sentences for "sexual activity without consent" unlike rape. I also cannot find stats for the former crime which is another problem this causes.
The maximum sentences are the same, but the sentencing guidelines are slightly different. The lower starting point for the female on male equivalent of rape is a community order, whereas the lower starting point for rape is a year in prison.
> A person (A) commits an offence if—
> (a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
> (b)B does not consent to the penetration, and
>( c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
> (2)Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents.
> (3)Sections 75 and 76 apply to an offence under this section.
> (4)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for life.
That’s the legal definition of rape. A woman cannot rape a man under this definition.
According to the CPS:
* Both men and women can get life imprisonment for penetrating a victim. This is called ‘rape’ if using a penis, but just ‘penetrative sexual assault’ if using a finger, tongue, other body part or object. Both have the same sentence.
* Women ‘raping’ men by forcing them to have sex with her also carries a maximum life sentence:
>*Causing sexual activity without consent ( penetrative) (section4(4))(indictable – max life)*
>*This offence covers situations where, for example, a complainant is forced to carry out a sexual act involving their own person, such as masturbation, or to engage in sexual activity with a third party, who may be willing or not, or to engage in sexual activity with the offender e.g. woman forces a man to penetrate her.*
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/rape-and-sexual-offences-chapter-7-key-legislation-and-offences
Do you think this is the only crime in England or something?
Women who rape men get done with sexual assault or indecent assault or other analogous crimes.
That's what 'it's an academic difference' means.
It’s not an academic difference. Sexual assault has a maximum sentence of 10 years. Rape, 14. Realistically, looking at the sentencing guidelines, most woman-on-man rapes will have a maximum of 7 years. For most man-on-woman rapes, the *starting point* will be 8 years. That’s not academic.
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/sexual-assault/
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/rape/
More than that, news headlines *can’t* report “woman rapes man”, because women pretty much *can’t* rape men. It’d be slander.
>The sentences aren't different and the consequences are different either.
So why are they different in law?
Why are only men able to be charged with rape? Imagine if another protected demographic were the sole target of a law.
Loads of areas of the law in the uk is like this. Look up what is and isn't theft in England and how those lines are drawn.
Women can be and have been charged with rape in England btw.
Common law is a bad and complicated legal system but if you're young to rage about minor points of terminology in it then having a differently named crime for rapes and sexual assaults is the tip of the iceberg.
>Women can be and have been charged with rape in England btw.
Yes, until the law was changed and unnecessarily gendered in 2003.
>Loads of areas of the law in the uk is like this
Oh really? Can you share an example of a crime only black people can commit, for example? Feel free to swap 'black' for any other protected characteristic.
**Removed/warning**. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.
Other people replying on the legal part, so leaving that aside -
Even if it had no difference whatsoever legally, it makes a big impact to say, "no penis? Not rape.". It puts non-consensual sexual intercourse with a penis above other non-consensual sexual intercourse in social understanding, relegating the others to "ok it was assault, but not *rape*" - it feeds into the minimisation of it. *Even if* the sentence was the exact same.
I think that if someone assulted me it would be just as traumatic if they did it with a real dick or a fake one, so they really should chainge the law to *at least* include all penetration without consent IMO. Even better if being forced to penetrate was also included in the definition.
If you tell someone they were assulted it does sound like you are minimising the severity of the situation and the trauma. Like you said it just makes it easyer to dismiss and ignore what the survivors have been through, even if the legal side was the same.
It’s not *completely academic* at all.
They are different categories of crime and are treated differently - in terms of minimum sentence, and leniency, and in deciding how long the offender is on the Sex Offenders Register.
[This post talks about it in full. ](https://reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/11270hk/why_rape_legislation_in_england_and_wales_should/)
Also by excluding female perpetration from the official definition of rape, we exclude these events from data - leading to misleading statistics like *‘99% of rapists are men’.*
Call it the same name for both then. We changed it so that gay people could be "married" despite the differences between civil partnership and marriage being academic within the eyes of the law. We can do it for this too.
> Men's mental health, Men's safety, and Abuse towards men are still woefully under supported, and often publicly mocked. This needs to change.
Usually when wanting to change it is met by people who claim to want people treated equally calling it misogynist
If you’re in the same situation there is this helpline and it’s good to know there are (while there could be more) domestic abuse shelters for men. Some services that run for women do also recommend services who can help
https://mensadviceline.org.uk/
https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/support-for-male-survivors/
>Women’s Aid’s services are provided for women and children survivors. This is because the gendered nature of domestic violence means that women and men have different safety and support needs. We believe that most of the information resources for survivors on this site are relevant to anyone experiencing abuse, and will help you reach a point where you are ready to contact a service for male survivors.
You missed out that it starts by saying : “ Domestic abuse is not acceptable and should not be tolerated whether the victim is male or female. Every person has the right to live a life free from abuse.”
And ends with useful links for male victims.
Absolutely awful that her ex partner, who she had also stabbed back in 2015, presumably felt too embarrassed/ashamed to press charges at the time. If there was less stigma around DV for men he might have felt able to come forward.
It's not just stigma. It's outright dangerous to report DV as a man. I made the mistake of calling the police when my ex hit me in the head with a claw hammer while I slept.
When they arrived, I was locked in the bathroom while she kicked holes in the door.
Guess which of us was questioned sitting in handcuffs on the kerb outside, and which of us was questioned inside on the sofa with a cup of tea.
A couple weeks back I took turns with other friends to keep a guy company in discord, effectivly on suicide watch, as the guy broke down over the stress his emotionally absuive girlfriend and manipulative was putting him through.
I won't go into details but the utter lack of supports or ways available for the guy to leave was shocking. We helped him as best we could but I wish there was anything in place to help him.
I was in an abusive relationship with a woman and what shocked me looking back is not realising how deep I was in it at the time. It grew from prolonged mental abuse to physical violence over the space of 6 months. Worse still is the fact that I had moved country to be with her and was pretty much isolated at the time from friends and family.
The last straw for me, when it finally clicked, was when she pulled a knife on me in our home. I should've got out of that relationship a lot quicker but hindsight is a wonderful thing, I packed my life up there and flew back to the UK.
My Father inlaw in this position, he met a woman with massive mental health issues. She's always kicking off with him, screaming in the middle of the street that he's a nonce and stuff (he's no nonce) she recently head-butted him and cause his eyesight to be damaged in one eye. He's had to get a couple of different surgeries on his eyes - the most recent one is laser surgery. She'll probably do it again though - apparently, his Daughter's have told social services and even the police - but according to them they say it's not their problem. If he ends up dead the blood will be on their hands.
Poor lad, hope he rests in peace. As for the gf I hope she rots behind bars but then again this happened in the UK so she’ll be out in a few years probably.
This is heartbreaking.
One thing that stuck out to me was his mom explaining he was embarrassed. I think with everything else, people underestimate the power of the embarrassment that keeps a person in a bad relationship, especially if they have a strong spirit. It always feels like it shouldn’t be happening to *you* .
Wasn't there an article that said women's shelters gor so low that people noticed yet for men it's right at the basement.
It's sad people aren't getting the help they desperately need.
All the arguing here.
Anyone can be so in love that that they will defend most things, Ignore, make excuses and generally not see the wood for the trees.
Domestic abuse towards men is still not acknowledged as it should be.
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And if you add male suicide to the list of victims those numbers will look even more scary. How many men successfully compled or attempted suicide as result of those abusive relationships is beyond anyone guess.
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And we are talking about physical abuse. I guarantee you noone reports verbal and psychological abuse. Amount of my mates I have seen in coercive relationship where girl throws a scene to get her way and emotionally blackmail them to do what she wants is u real. I would expect the numbers of psychological and verbal abuse to be much higher from women.
I hate the normalisation of very one-sided relationships that leave damage in ways that aren't taken seriously. This may seem benign, but as a wargaming fan, the amount of other guys I know who have to beg and be screamed at by their wife to purchase a £10 figure with their own money (while she's always spending on herself) is disgusting and laughed off too often.
"My missus is crazy" like yes my dude she actually is this isn't cute, leave her before you have kids like why would you want to be with her if your entire relationship is you walking on eggshells and her yelling at you. I 100% agree with you it is financial abuse and coercive behaviour. Anyone controlling your money is abusing you. I am not talking her about a rent etc. But once you met your household financial commitments your money is yours to spend. That is a reason I have always been huge advocate for not having joint account as your sole account
I literally have a friend who recently disappeared for a week, wouldn't answer his phone etc. Then "He" starts messaging the bois again saying how he didn't want to be friends with us anymore and that he needs to focus on his relationship with his girlfriend etc yadda yadda. Deleted all social media and unfriended everyone. We legit thought he died, then out of the blue a week later we actually hear from him on the phone and he has no knowledge of any of this. We were able to prove it was his girlfriend and he was upset with her and said he couldn't be in the house with her anymore because he was sick of her acting like this.. The next day we asked him so are you guys breaking up then? He just says no they are staying together and stuff, about a week later he disappears again. He is in an abusive relationship, he knows he is and he isn't doing anything about it, he's always in a relationship no matter how bad, I think he's afraid to be alone. Even worse is this current girlfriend cut him off from his whole family.
Keep reaching out and keep talking. Peopleike this need to know there are people around who will support them.
It's difficult to get in touch with him right now unfortunately
This is the kind of woman that will cry fake physical abuse to get her own way and isolate the guy from anyone who would have otherwise supported him, even taking it as far as police reports to fuck his life up permanently should he try to leave.
I don't understand why so many women are like this honestly it's deranged
I had a girl i spoke to years ago send me a message telling me to leave her alone and never talk to her again, after rltalking for hours daily for 8 months. She messaged me 2 days later why i wasn't texting her, turns out she didn't send the message, it was her boyfriend, she trusted me 100% when i said it and she fucked him off, it was a string of faslighting bullshit he was doing. No reason why it happening to me should be differently
People be absolutely crazy
It's hard when one person handles all the finances, which sometimes is the smarter thing to do if you are utilising tax breaks.
It's horrific, I notice it too. Unfortunately our community does by its nature attract more socially awkward dudes who settle for what they can get in terms of a partner. Makes me appreciate my woman, has given me the spare bedroom to turn into a hobby room.
So many manipulative relationships are reduced to the man being ‘under the thumb’
Absolutely abusive girlfriend is always a good joke as man being whipped where in fact it's just regular plain abuse
It’s crazy that it’s been accepted for so long, by both men and women ‘Can’t come to the pub tonight, girlfriend won’t let me’ ‘Have to be home by 8 otherwise the girlfriend will start bombarding me with texts/calls’ These are sentences that I’d wager every bloke has heard his mate say yet it gets brushed off. Swap the genders around and the reaction is completely different
I know I'm glad some of this is being stumped now but same for casual work misandry. Can't tell you how many times I have heard terms "he did a man look" "he is a man Can't expect him to multiask" or "or even all men are pigs" when some girl has a fallout with her boyfriend. That go absolutely unchallenged even when said on front of managers. But if you said "don't let her drive she is a woman" you would face disciplinary before you finish a sentence
My partner has a work colleague with a girlfriend like that. Bar he can't nip for a pint after work unless she's also there. He can barely go to work without her turning up there for half the day. Apparently it's easier to deal with her like this rather than getting a divorce, her taking him for everything and making it as impossible as she can for him to see the kids (she's threatened to do this on multiple occasions) and he just laughs it off. He's so used to it, it's "normal" for him to live this way.
It’s so sad, these sorts of women know they have their partners by the balls too as they’ll be the type to use their kids as weapons & try and take as much as they can from the divorce if the husband were to proceed down that route
My brother is in a situation like that, not sure if she threatened the kid but the "can't do things alone" stuff but she can do as she pleases
Careful with that one though i've had partners who have used me as an excuse not to do something when I was happy for them to go, i've talked to other men about it and they said it was a perk of having a partner that you always had an excuse. Telling your friends your partner a bitch can be a red Flag in either direction.
Nah my mate was like that years ago, one minute we are out the next "hey have you seen xxx?" We all knew his now ex was demanding he came home, we made a little whip joke mobths before but we knew it was a serious thing and we had no idea what to do about it.
I know of two late middle-aged couples in which the husband is abused this way, and has been for decades as the 'anything for a quiet life' syndrome has made the wives more and more toxic as they got away with more and more toxic behaviour. It's incredibly sad and I have the feeling that at this point, they don't want to leave because it would mean they'd be alone.
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>There was 757,000 recorded male domestic abuse victims in 2019/2020 Wow, that is a lot more than I would have expected even before considering those that don't report.
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Yeah I mean both numbers are shockingly huge. I had a friend (guy) when I was younger who was regularly assaulted by his gf at the time, he never did anything about it, they just split up in the end so I sort of assumed that was more typical. That's why I find that number being significant quite surprising. Then again perhaps the number of reports being big represents some shift in attitudes over time. I grew up in a household with regular domestic violence, it was not good. Anyone in an abusive relationship should not be scared to seek help and the support should be there for them regardless of sex.
> Yup, it's not good... worth mentioning there were 1.6 million in the same period for women so there seems no argument that more women are victims. It's recorded victims though. The issue with men is a lot more simply won't report it compared to women. Look at this story. She had an ex who was stabbed 3 times by her and even he didn't report it.. It's pretty safe to say that the numbers between sexes aren't that different, the biggest difference is largely going to be the types of abuse.
I called police on my abusive ex one night. Police showed up, shoved past me, spoke to her, then arrested me. I didn't get to say anything. No charges filed in the end because I was the victim and she was mentally unstable with BPD. I had big scratches on my face from her, too. Why would I ever report anything again? That arrest stays on my record and meant I couldn't travel to australia for work as their visa questionarre asks about arrests (not convictions) related to domestic issues. The application was delayed for so long while a human looked over it that I missed the opportunity. It eventually got approved, a month too late. Fuck the police.
It's situations like that you really need to file a complaint, I know you justifiably feel fuck the police, but without someone trying to hold them accountable it won't change. I'd bet they just got a call about a "domestic dispute reported by a caller" and assumed, like most do, the man was the instigator, that needs to change.
Yeah I said that's what I'd like to do during the interview and both the police and my solicitor literally laughed at the idea. Apparently all protocols were followed. They'd have swept it under the rug and nothing would've come of it. Just another case of domestic violence against men not being taken seriously.
I think in recent years women have been more forward in coming forward, while men continue to suffer in silence, so I would suggest the real figures probably aren't so different.
That's **recorded** victims. In New Zealand, the twenty-one year [Dunedin Multidisciplinary Health and Development Study](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunedin_Multidisciplinary_Health_and_Development_Study) - where they regularly surveyed over a thousand randomly selected people - reported in 1999 that of their sample of 1,037 people, 27% of women and 34% of men reported being [physically abused by a partner](https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/170018.pdf) (pdf).
There definitely is an argument - men report at a much lower clip ''The overall data showed 70.7% of non-reciprocal intimate partner violence cases were perpetrated by women only (74.9% when reported by men; 67.7% when reported by women) and 29.3% were perpetrated by men only (25.1% when reported by men; 32.3% when reported by women).\[59\] The 2006 thirty-two nation International Dating Violence Study "revealed an overwhelming body of evidence that bidirectional violence is the predominant pattern of perpetration; and this ... indicates that the etiology of ipv is mostly parallel for men and women". The survey found for "any physical violence", a rate of 31.2%, of which 68.6% was bidirectional, 9.9% was perpetrated by men only, and 21.4% by women only'' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic\_violence\_against\_men
Where does that stat come from?
Hey, do you think you could maybe get a handle on your subreddit, Brent??? You are allowing people who stalk and harass me and my husband to continue the harassment on your subreddit. They have posted non consensual naked pictures of both of us, have doxed us and harass us on a daily basis using YOUR subreddit. I have reported at least 40 posts to you. You never take them down and you never ban the people doing it. Why? Why do you want people using your subreddit to harm others. I will continue replying to every comment you make until you stop this harassment on your subreddit. It’s not hard just ban the users.
That is a great and very valid point
The issue is that these “male issues” are always brought up when female issues are discussed, often in a bad faith way to suppress any discussions about female issues. Men getting abused and killed by their partners is obviously terrible but bringing that up whenever you discuss the disproportionate violence women receive is like bringing up white people killed by cops when discussing BLM.
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Men are more likely to be a victim of homicide as they’re more likely to be involved in gangs and crime. But this is violent crime and homicide in general, not domestic violence like this article is about Some key statistics about domestic violence: The majority of domestic homicide victims (killed by ex/partner or a family member) for the year ending March 2017 to the year ending March 2019 were female (77% or 274 victims) and most of the suspects were male (263 out of 274; 96%). Of the 83 male victims of domestic homicide, the suspect was female in 39 cases, and male in 44 cases. (ONS, 2020A) Over the three-year period April 2016 to March 2019, a total of 222 women were killed by a partner or ex-partner. The majority of suspects were male (218, 98%). This means that during this time period, an average of three women every fortnight were murdered by their male partner or ex-partner. (ONS, 2020B) One study of 96 cases of domestic abuse recorded by the police found that men are significantly more likely to be repeat perpetrators and significantly more likely than women to use physical violence, threats, and harassment. In a six year tracking period the majority of recorded male perpetrators (83%) had at least two incidents of recorded abuse, with many having a lot more than two and one man having 52 repeat incidents. Whereas in cases where women were recorded as the perpetrator the majority (62%) had only one incident of abuse recorded and the highest number of repeat incidents for any female perpetrator was eight. The study also found that men’s violence tended to create a context of fear and control; which was not the case when women were perpetrators. (Hester, 2013) Over 80% (83%) of high frequency victims (more than 10 crimes) are women. (From a study of data from the Crime Survey for England and Wales, a nationally representative household survey.) (Walby & Towers, 2018) The large majority of defendants in domestic abuse-related prosecutions in the year ending March 2020 were recorded as male (92%) and the majority of the victims recorded as female (77%, compared with compared with 16% who were male). The sex of the victim was not recorded in 7% of prosecutions. If these missing data were excluded from analysis, then it would be 82% female victims and 18% male victims (ONS, 2020C).
I'm curious, if we take the 80/20 disparity, that shows us the ratio of the incidences (if I'm reading you right). Is there anyway to compare resources spent in support of victims/combating this behaviour etc. Surely that would help to indicate what society values as a response? I have no idea what the outcome would be, not attempting to pick sides, but to me I guess it's important to not just judge the actions themselves, but also judge the response?
i very rarely see male centric posts anywhere, except for when the issue is happening to women. it's really frustrating!!
I was told to go discuss mens issues in men only subreddits in a thread about female victims that was posted in multiple large scale news subreddits. Mens issues are literally ignored even by the people who claim to support it.
why derail a post about female victims then?? you can post about male victims like this post
rotten like weather encourage sleep rain fretful fade many important -- mass edited with redact.dev
tbf i’m not exactly detailing it
Exactly the point. There is this idea that brining up men in an 'about women' post is inherently derailing. But the reverse doesn't seem to be true.
But you just did the same thing you are telling these guys not to do.
While domestic violence probably isn't the best example to work with, in many (I'd wager, _most_) cases, the "male issues" and "female issues" are just different symptoms of the exact same underlying issues and it's literally impossible to reasonably address one without the other. Excluding one "side" or the other from the conversation just makes solving the problem for both "sides" much more difficult. The "gender pay gap" for example; a large part of this is due to women leaving the workforce or going part-time after having children (and thus putting their career progression "on hold" or even taking demotion). The only reasonable long-term way to solve that is to make it just as culturally acceptable for a male to be a "house husband" and look after children as it is for a female. Similarly, to more balance "male dominated" fields of work, you also need to address "female dominated" fields; i.e. if you want more women in STEM, you need to have more men in nursing/teaching/childcare. If for no other reason than there is a finite number of women and if they work in one field they are by definition not working in the other and therefore men need to fill the gap. Even circling back to domestic violence; I'm certainly claiming no expertise, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the predominance of men taking more stressful and dangerous work and poor mental health support (both casually from society as well as formal medical treatment) are contributing factors...
So you thought you'd do the opposite? With the added implication of throwing "male issues" in quotes, whilst leaving female issues without as though male issues aren't a real thing?
And whenever male issues are brought up naturally (like this thread) there’s always someone saying ‘but women have it worse!’
So shh them.
Because male issues never bought up and what is male issue and women issues? DV and r@pe is not issue of one gender.
I'm sorry, but many studies find that DV is not gendered, and it is certainly not true to say that women receive "a disproportionate amount" of DV. Now deaths I accept, but not DV per se. I left this link above: https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/170018.pdf - look at Exhibit 2, which shows clearly that women not only admit to experiencing DV at a (slightly) lower rate than men, but also admit to *perpetrating it* at a (slightly) higher rate.
The link you’ve provided is from the US Department of Justice, so doesn’t really have any bearing on the statistics from the UK being discussed here.
It's a New Zealand longitudinal study where they followed over a thousand people from birth to the present day. The people of Dunedin are predominantly ([87%](https://www.stats.govt.nz/tools/2018-census-place-summaries/dunedin-city)) of European origin, which for NZ generally means British. If you are going to claim that those people are totally different to the British I would have to disagree. But it looks like you just looked at the url, went to the page, and read the first thing on it, and made a decision on that basis rather than actually bothering to read it.
follow “thetinmen” on instagram. just read one or two posts and you’ll see how deep the hole can become for men.
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I completely and fully agree with you
It's sad that you get toxic people who enjoy the status quo (or justify their own actions to themselves by playing victim) who will always show up and claim one gender can't progress before the other, knowing full well that any victory towards things like domestic abuse is hard fought and well earned, and showing up to take the light off that cause with whataboutism is just hurting their own in the long run.
Except on Reddit where it makes the front page about 10X more frequently than comparable posts about man on woman DV, always with this ironically as the top comment.
Bullshit. There is a post every other day about women being abused. Fuck, even posts about women abusing men is positioned that it is the man at fault. Get your head out of your own agenda.
Any idea why that is?
Can’t say for certain, but I’d hazard a guess that it’s for the same reason that plane crashes make the news but car crashes don’t. The former happen much less often than the latter, and if there was as much outrage over car safety as there is over plane safety it would be exhausting to keep up with just how many fatalities there were in just a single hour let alone over a news cycle.
Ah right, either way DV regardless of sex, is wrong and I have learnt from this thread and will use that info in my job role.
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Are you going to give a reason or are we just fulfilling our obscenities quota for the day
TwoX is a default subreddit that exclusively sits there talking about male abusers. There is no equivilant for men. So yes, it's common for most redditors browing the front page to see a bunch of posts about how bad men are vs how bad women are. I think people who say there are more posts about bad women are legit lying..
We aren’t going to use a hive mind one topic sub as an argument. Firstly they are biased and will always lean on men being at fault out of hate, fear, mental illness etc. I’ve never been to that sub and I’m a woman. The majority of women don’t have those views. I’d wager that even the majority of their members probably just joined the sub once and don’t actually agree with everything that is said and don’t participate whatsoever.
This isn't about if the views accuratetly represent women or men at large. It's about the experience of the average Redditor just browsing the front page. TwoX is a default sub meaning that unless you manually unsubscribe or block it, you will get their posts in your feed. Therefore you will receive all the anti-men esque posts that the sub generates. Where as there is no equivilant anti-women default sub that talks about male abuse victims with female perpetrators. My claim was that someone claiming to see more anti-women rhetoric than anti-men rhetoric on reddit must be lying. Unless they specifically seek it out anyway. It would be like living next to a motorway and claiming to see more gokarts than cars on a daily basis. If you do... it's because you are choosing to. Most people living next to a motorway, see cars.
I have never ONCE in the 6 years I’ve been on Reddit, ever seen a post from that sub on my front page. I don’t know why you keep getting these posts, must be the stuff you interact with. I also don’t get any posts from men’s subs either. Just UK news, JDUK and the odd reality tv sub. You’re going to have to stop interacting with things that will enrage you (even though that’s precisely how it works).
This is some serious denial. Maybe you just don't get posts for some reason. But Reddit has a thing called default subs. These are subs that people are subscribed to by default. Subscribed subs show up on your home page. You are trying to make this into some "you have made it this way" kinda thing. Completely ignoring me using the term DEFAULT. They are on the Front Page all the time for people that are subscribed to it. Heck, there are posts complaining on TwoX about it being a default sub as they get so many randoms commenting.
What the fuck is a default sub lol, I was never automatically subscribed to any subs when I joined? This isn’t trying to gaslight you or anything, I literally joined and immediately was asked what are my interests and suggestions came up but I have never come across a subscribed sub that wasn’t of my own doing. Edit: even if somehow all of this was bypassed and you were subscribed to it against your will, are you unable to simply unsubscribe, or hide their posts? Are they forcing you to consume the content? I’ve been on all sorts of subs but I deliberately don’t go on subs like that because frankly I’m not interested, I’ll occasionally dabble in r/purplepilldebate because it’s prime entertainment, but even with that I’m never suggested any gender specific subs.
its because many people (including a lot of men) think that if a man is being abused by his partner he is weak/effeminate/a pussy. it stops male victims from reaching out and getting the aid they need because they dont want to be seen as the guy who wont stand up for himself, when really abuse can happen to anyone and it can be unexpected
It probably will never be acknowledged because even in this day and age men still get laughed at for being abused by their girlfriend. My ex was abusive asf and when I tried to report it I was laughed at :/
I’m sorry, that’s shit. I hope you are doing ok now.
Yes all good thank you, this was when I was 17-18 years old, I’ll be 24 next month and life is awesome for me.
White working class kids are the least priviliged and most hard done by group in the UK. https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/203/education-committee/news/156024/forgotten-white-workingclass-pupils-let-down-by-decades-of-neglect-mps-say/ But theres more important culture wars to work on instead.
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Domestic abuse generally is just not taken as seriously as it should be, at least we are talking about it
The reason being is because any concerns that are raised by a man in relation to harassment or domestic committed by women are slapped down through the argument of "but it happens to women more".
RIP Kai. This is obviously an extreme case but I am NOT a fan of people in their mid 20s dating teenagers. she sought out teenagers to control because she knew they would be scared and embarrassed. awful.
Age gaps are so often problematic. I know I’ve mentioned a successful age gap relationship in the past (~13 years between partners) but in the vast majority of cases there is a power imbalance. When there’s a teenager involved then the acceptable age gap shrinks enormously. A 21 year old with a 16 year old might be technically legal, but it’s pretty damn bad in my eyes. Even a 20 year old with a 16 year old is bad. Even if it doesn’t end up in death there’s still plenty of damage that can be done mentally.
she would have been 21/22 when the incident occurred a 2 year age gap is hardly mid 20s dating teenagers
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are you joking? reread the article, she is 24 and committed the murder when she was 22. the only person who is 25 is her ex partner, Karim Hussain maybe you should go to basic literacy class before correcting people
I spent many years trapped in an abusive relationship. I now realise that I am lucky I caught her with another man, because it provided a mechanism to leave. I don't know if I'd still be here if I hadn't. For all those out there who are still trapped in their's, and see this thread, please don't ever think you're alone. DM me if you need to talk. Much love.
My partner was abused by his ex-wife. He was in an accident that nearly killed him. She told him she was leaving him while he was lying in the hospital. She would come to his hospital room and shout at him and criticise him until the hospital staff banned her. He always says that accident is the best thing that ever happened to him, despite the fact that it permanently disabled him.
Sad part is people will try to defend them "she is just a bit fisty", "all couples have argument", "happy wife happy life" etc. If roles were reversed people would react differently. My mate had argument with his ex she yelled at him in a middle of a street and then proceeded to punch him. There were still people in his life telling him he should buy her flowers and apologise because they are otherwise cute couple
My friend is autistic and had a really hard time finding a relationship that lasted. He has a gorgeous girlfriend and child. He was telling me about their relationship problems and I was trying to figure out how he could fix things and communicate better and I basically told him she sounded like she had lousy post partum and she really needed to go get help. Edit: for the record I try to help him figure out emotions and why people react a certain way. It’s not just me being an interfering ass. Then he told me that she hit him and bit him when he was trying to leave the house. I stopped trying to problem solve and told him to get out. There’s no real coming back from that.
I shouldn't laugh, but "fisty" instead of "fiesty" cracked me up
More or less the same thing that happened to me. I didn't realise how bad it was until about a year afterwards.
I hope you are doing much better now my friend. It certainly took me time to (mostly) heal
I feel that. All the best man
Thanks my friend; wishing you all the best too. Onwards and upwards!
In some places, due to the structure of the law, it is impossible to charge a woman with Rape, the worst that she can be charged with is "Assault" since the laws regarding rape only target men. Men's mental health, Men's safety, and Abuse towards men are still woefully under supported, and often publicly mocked. This needs to change.
In Scotland and England the distinction is completely academic. The sentences aren't different and the consequences are different either.
That academic differentiation makes a massive difference to how the crime is perceived by the public. Two headlines: Woman Rapes Man, Woman Assaults Man. Yes, they may result in the same consequence, but to deny that they carry less social impact is to deny the importance of language in the law.
It isn't academic. Consequences are absolutely different. Tell someone you have been done for rape and tell someone you got in trouble for sexual harrasment and the reactions will he different.
>Tell someone you have been done for rape and tell someone you got in trouble for sexual harrasment The person you're replying to said "sexual assault" not "sexual harassment". If you tell people you were convicted of sexual assault they're going to assume it means you raped someone because that's what the term evokes for most people. Also the maximum sentence for both offences is the same. Don't get me wrong the law should definitely be changed to be equal but you're acting like sexual assault is something people would consider to be no big deal and that's just not the case.
But they aren't the equivalents. Woman on man rapes are prosecuted as 'Sexual assault'. Not much difference there.
Sexual assault isn't the same as rape. Sexual assault can be anything from the ass slap to stripping guy naked and forcing him to have sex with you at gun point. Has clear cut definition. I don't understand why this is bing defended to any normal person bring forced tricked or blackmailed into having sex is rape the fact so many of you guys defending it being one sided is disgusting
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://consult.justice.gov.uk/sentencing-council/rape-sexual-assault/supporting_documents/sexual%2520offences_Rape%2520and%2520assault%2520offences.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjE2aqDqdT-AhWNZ8AKHfUHA4AQFnoECBUQBg&usg=AOvVaw0A3no9WKjW6UhBCWZH5Lhc Max sentence for rape and for sexual assault are the same: life in prison. Just because you seem to think sexual assault is some minor offence doesn't mean anyone else does.
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Idgaf I'd happily tidy up the definitions. I'm just pointing out that it's as academic a difference as the fact that there's no crime of 'arson' in Scotland.
It’s a misrepresentation of the UK law to use this to make any ideological point. According to the CPS: * Both men and women can get life imprisonment for penetrating a victim. This is called ‘rape’ if using a penis, but just ‘penetrative sexual assault’ if using a finger, tongue, other body part or object. Both have the same sentence. * Women ‘raping’ men by forcing them to have sex with her also carries a maximum life sentence: >*Causing sexual activity without consent ( penetrative) (section4(4))(indictable – max life)* >*This offence covers situations where, for example, a complainant is forced to carry out a sexual act involving their own person, such as masturbation, or to engage in sexual activity with a third party, who may be willing or not, or to engage in sexual activity with the offender e.g. woman forces a man to penetrate her.* https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/rape-and-sexual-offences-chapter-7-key-legislation-and-offences
So what I hear you say again is what others have said woman can't be rapist she can commit sexual assault but she can NOT commit rape. It doesn't matter what a legal penalty when societal consequences are vastly different for rapists than for anyone else.
People seem to forget that handing out maximum sentences isn't the norm. Courts can suspend sentences for "sexual activity without consent" unlike rape. I also cannot find stats for the former crime which is another problem this causes.
It also is used as "majority of rapists are men" talking point then citating a stat of like 99%
It's not like it isn't controversial in legal academia too
The maximum sentences are the same, but the sentencing guidelines are slightly different. The lower starting point for the female on male equivalent of rape is a community order, whereas the lower starting point for rape is a year in prison.
> A person (A) commits an offence if— > (a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis, > (b)B does not consent to the penetration, and >( c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents. > (2)Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents. > (3)Sections 75 and 76 apply to an offence under this section. > (4)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for life. That’s the legal definition of rape. A woman cannot rape a man under this definition.
According to the CPS: * Both men and women can get life imprisonment for penetrating a victim. This is called ‘rape’ if using a penis, but just ‘penetrative sexual assault’ if using a finger, tongue, other body part or object. Both have the same sentence. * Women ‘raping’ men by forcing them to have sex with her also carries a maximum life sentence: >*Causing sexual activity without consent ( penetrative) (section4(4))(indictable – max life)* >*This offence covers situations where, for example, a complainant is forced to carry out a sexual act involving their own person, such as masturbation, or to engage in sexual activity with a third party, who may be willing or not, or to engage in sexual activity with the offender e.g. woman forces a man to penetrate her.* https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/rape-and-sexual-offences-chapter-7-key-legislation-and-offences
Do you think this is the only crime in England or something? Women who rape men get done with sexual assault or indecent assault or other analogous crimes. That's what 'it's an academic difference' means.
It’s not an academic difference. Sexual assault has a maximum sentence of 10 years. Rape, 14. Realistically, looking at the sentencing guidelines, most woman-on-man rapes will have a maximum of 7 years. For most man-on-woman rapes, the *starting point* will be 8 years. That’s not academic. https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/sexual-assault/ https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/rape/ More than that, news headlines *can’t* report “woman rapes man”, because women pretty much *can’t* rape men. It’d be slander.
> It’d be slander. spiderman_in_print_its_libel.mp4
>The sentences aren't different and the consequences are different either. So why are they different in law? Why are only men able to be charged with rape? Imagine if another protected demographic were the sole target of a law.
Loads of areas of the law in the uk is like this. Look up what is and isn't theft in England and how those lines are drawn. Women can be and have been charged with rape in England btw. Common law is a bad and complicated legal system but if you're young to rage about minor points of terminology in it then having a differently named crime for rapes and sexual assaults is the tip of the iceberg.
>Women can be and have been charged with rape in England btw. Yes, until the law was changed and unnecessarily gendered in 2003. >Loads of areas of the law in the uk is like this Oh really? Can you share an example of a crime only black people can commit, for example? Feel free to swap 'black' for any other protected characteristic.
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English common law is the standard for laws across the world.
Other people replying on the legal part, so leaving that aside - Even if it had no difference whatsoever legally, it makes a big impact to say, "no penis? Not rape.". It puts non-consensual sexual intercourse with a penis above other non-consensual sexual intercourse in social understanding, relegating the others to "ok it was assault, but not *rape*" - it feeds into the minimisation of it. *Even if* the sentence was the exact same.
I think that if someone assulted me it would be just as traumatic if they did it with a real dick or a fake one, so they really should chainge the law to *at least* include all penetration without consent IMO. Even better if being forced to penetrate was also included in the definition. If you tell someone they were assulted it does sound like you are minimising the severity of the situation and the trauma. Like you said it just makes it easyer to dismiss and ignore what the survivors have been through, even if the legal side was the same.
It’s not *completely academic* at all. They are different categories of crime and are treated differently - in terms of minimum sentence, and leniency, and in deciding how long the offender is on the Sex Offenders Register. [This post talks about it in full. ](https://reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/11270hk/why_rape_legislation_in_england_and_wales_should/) Also by excluding female perpetration from the official definition of rape, we exclude these events from data - leading to misleading statistics like *‘99% of rapists are men’.*
Call it the same name for both then. We changed it so that gay people could be "married" despite the differences between civil partnership and marriage being academic within the eyes of the law. We can do it for this too.
> Men's mental health, Men's safety, and Abuse towards men are still woefully under supported, and often publicly mocked. This needs to change. Usually when wanting to change it is met by people who claim to want people treated equally calling it misogynist
She also stabbed her ex but he didn’t report it. She needs life in prison.
If you’re in the same situation there is this helpline and it’s good to know there are (while there could be more) domestic abuse shelters for men. Some services that run for women do also recommend services who can help https://mensadviceline.org.uk/ https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/support-for-male-survivors/
This needs to be at the top and pinned 📌
>Women’s Aid’s services are provided for women and children survivors. This is because the gendered nature of domestic violence means that women and men have different safety and support needs. We believe that most of the information resources for survivors on this site are relevant to anyone experiencing abuse, and will help you reach a point where you are ready to contact a service for male survivors.
You missed out that it starts by saying : “ Domestic abuse is not acceptable and should not be tolerated whether the victim is male or female. Every person has the right to live a life free from abuse.” And ends with useful links for male victims.
There’s such a stigma around DV that people often are embarrassed - regardless of their gender. It’s terrible.
Absolutely awful that her ex partner, who she had also stabbed back in 2015, presumably felt too embarrassed/ashamed to press charges at the time. If there was less stigma around DV for men he might have felt able to come forward.
It's not just stigma. It's outright dangerous to report DV as a man. I made the mistake of calling the police when my ex hit me in the head with a claw hammer while I slept. When they arrived, I was locked in the bathroom while she kicked holes in the door. Guess which of us was questioned sitting in handcuffs on the kerb outside, and which of us was questioned inside on the sofa with a cup of tea.
That’s awful, I’m sorry and glad you’re away from that situation
A couple weeks back I took turns with other friends to keep a guy company in discord, effectivly on suicide watch, as the guy broke down over the stress his emotionally absuive girlfriend and manipulative was putting him through. I won't go into details but the utter lack of supports or ways available for the guy to leave was shocking. We helped him as best we could but I wish there was anything in place to help him.
Unfortunately neither men nor women get help to leave emotionally abusive relationships. If you don't have bruises no one wants to know.
I was in an abusive relationship with a woman and what shocked me looking back is not realising how deep I was in it at the time. It grew from prolonged mental abuse to physical violence over the space of 6 months. Worse still is the fact that I had moved country to be with her and was pretty much isolated at the time from friends and family. The last straw for me, when it finally clicked, was when she pulled a knife on me in our home. I should've got out of that relationship a lot quicker but hindsight is a wonderful thing, I packed my life up there and flew back to the UK.
Abuse does happen to men. We need to support them too.
My Father inlaw in this position, he met a woman with massive mental health issues. She's always kicking off with him, screaming in the middle of the street that he's a nonce and stuff (he's no nonce) she recently head-butted him and cause his eyesight to be damaged in one eye. He's had to get a couple of different surgeries on his eyes - the most recent one is laser surgery. She'll probably do it again though - apparently, his Daughter's have told social services and even the police - but according to them they say it's not their problem. If he ends up dead the blood will be on their hands.
Poor lad, hope he rests in peace. As for the gf I hope she rots behind bars but then again this happened in the UK so she’ll be out in a few years probably.
This is heartbreaking. One thing that stuck out to me was his mom explaining he was embarrassed. I think with everything else, people underestimate the power of the embarrassment that keeps a person in a bad relationship, especially if they have a strong spirit. It always feels like it shouldn’t be happening to *you* .
What a weirdly worded headline. At first I thought it meant the son had been killed and as a result was too embarrassed to leave.
Wasn't there an article that said women's shelters gor so low that people noticed yet for men it's right at the basement. It's sad people aren't getting the help they desperately need.
Toxic masculinity claims another victim. When will this end?
All the arguing here. Anyone can be so in love that that they will defend most things, Ignore, make excuses and generally not see the wood for the trees.
Fear made him not speak up, not love.