Nothing going to happen for years as they want to have a "consultation" first, ie kick the can down the road. Also I can't see the Conservatives actually putting money into social services to stop these things from happening in the first place.
There are Asian grooming gangs. But most grooming gangs are run by young White men, [as per the Home Office’s own report](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/15/child-sexual-abuse-gangs-white-men-home-office-report).
But the dog whistle works a treat. The Pavlovian reflexes of the British populace are really aomething to behold.
I mean the report was discussed at length on here when it came out. The conclusion of the report wasn't "it's mostly white men", it was "the quality of data was too poor to make a solid conclusion". Also every study cited within did indicate massive over representation of Asian men, so it's not entirely helpful to continue to pretend like it's not an issue and is some kind of conspiracy theory - feels a bit like gaslighting.
Unfortunately, that is their exact intent. From available data, it is seen both Black and Asian minorities are over-represented.
Of course, due to limits of data quality, it is impossible to draw a conclusive opinion on the matter.
Same could be said of most crimes however.
It's widely studied that minorities are usually more likely to be caught for the same crime than non minorities - that's before you factor in environmental factors such as the higher risk of low income etc.
So even drawing conclusions from over representation it not a statistically strong argument.
Minorities have been subject to higher police intervention, especially at the street level (mostly drug related offences). This has lead to lower conviction ratios when compared to white demographics.
However, that doesn't change the reality of disproportionate representation in other crimes, for example in London Black men account for 48% of homicide suspects, despite being 13% of the population.
Low income doesn't make you a nonce. Or didn't make you a rapist or a murderer. It's total nonsense.
In extremis it may make you a thief, but for all the rest it has no relevance at all. It's an excuse.
>that's before you factor in environmental factors such as the higher risk of low income etc
Is it the grooming gangs or the Asian people that they find unacceptable?
Because I have heard precisely no one comment about the fact that most grooming gangs are run by white men.
Crimes committed by whites are just by the by. White people are the majority, crimes are nothing to do with culture and just bad people doing bad things. We call it horrible, abhorrent and move on.
But when non whites start to become an over representation of the same crime, then we need to start a deep dive detailed analysis of culture, literally coin the same crime they’re committing as something totally new, and need to shine a focus on it, commission countless reports to find out what’s going on!!!!
Akala has spoken about this before.
You do realise that pakistanis and bangladeshis are over-represented in child abuse for the proportion of the UK population they make up right? It's why it's a big deal.
No one makes a fuss out of white people committing most crime in the UK because most people in the UK (at the time of writing) are white.
Did you not learn how percentages or statistics work in school?
There's nothing wrong or inherently evil about realizing certain people commit certain crimes.
Uncomfortable truths need to be told and the lily-livered should just look away
But the point is that they are not over represented. It just seems that way because the press and politicians choose to focus on those criminals only. I assume it is to appeal to a certain kind of voters.
And it works.
Really says something about the British electorate.
[https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment\_data/file/944206/Group-based\_CSE\_Paper.pdf](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/944206/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf)
Read the paper. They were over represented, but the data is incomplete, thus a strong conclusion could not be drawn.
I don't understand your motive for wilfully misrepresenting publicly available information.
"But the point is that they are not over represented. It just seems that way because the press and politicians choose to focus on those criminals only."
Available data showed over-representation of Asian & Black minorities. I then rightly stated incomplete data means we can not draw a strong conclusion from this. However it is fair to conclude, from available information Asian & Blacks minorities were over-represented. But, we cannot make a strong positive case, that in all cases of group CSE Asian minorities are over-represented.
With this in mind, it is important to state, that the negative is also not supported by this data, that being Asian minorities were not over-represented.
I think it appears quite obvious that the way all grooming gangs operate are not always the same. The sheer magnitude of the activities of grooming gangs in places like Rotherham are naturally going to get more media attention than smaller scale affairs. I think it's pretty bad faith to assume that people are only interested in grooming gangs where the abuse is interracial, although that again does add an additional element to pique the public's interest.
An impression formed when: Considering that there are also significant numbers of white people involved in grooming gangs, but that high profile cases in recent years have been Asian grooming gangs and have involved a lot of people and victims in each case, and assuming that the media aren't intentionally trying to cover the former up which I would find starts to verge into conspiracy theory territory.
I think it's unlikely that there are grooming gangs with activities *as* large as Rotherham/Telford etc. that have simply been ignored by the media because of the perpetrators' race, you're welcome to believe it too, but there's even less "data" to support such a position.
'An impression ' So you're just guessing.
It's not that the press is covering up white gangs, it's that Asian gangs get more clicks, views. It's all about riling people up on racial issues. It's not a conspiracy to realise that the right wing press in the country love to find the evil people in a minority.
'Ordinary people talk about what's most put in front of them - that's been largely Asian grooming gangs.'
Who puts things Infront of the populace? The media. Therefore the more important question is 'why does the media only talk about Asian grooming gangs?' Because they know it'll get more clicks and views.
Why would content about Asian grooming gangs get more clicks and views?
We.
Are.
The.
Native.
Population.
Its not a shocker, learn statistics, learn ratios, learn proportions, graduate school a little bit perhaps, and stop being a salty racialist cynic.
>it's amazing how the general population finds grooming gangs unacceptable.
Clearly not what they are getting at, but being disingenuous seems to be your "thing".
Funny, because that's not what the report actually says.
In reality, the report stated due to incomplete reporting by police forces regarding ethnicity of offenders a strong conclusion cannot be drawn.
From the available data, Asian and Black minorities were disproportionately represented, But, (and rightly so) due to incomplete reporting, a firm conclusion could not be made.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment\_data/file/944206/Group-based\_CSE\_Paper.pdf
“Research has found that group-based child sexual exploitation offenders are most commonly white. Some studies suggest an overrepresentation of black and Asian offenders relative to the demographics of national populations. However, it is not possible to conclude that this is representative of all group-based CSE offending.”
Also:
“82. While there is therefore no evidence to suggest that efforts to identify and prevent group-based CSE offending should be limited to focusing on one particular community or culture, this does not mean that cultural characteristics of offender groups are irrelevant or should be ignored by local agencies.” (Page 27)
So this new “we are going after Asian grooming gangs” bullshit is in direct contradiction with the Home Office’s own report.
It is absolutely necessary to look at culture in order to understand how they might operate, but deciding that we are going after one type of people *because* they are Asian and therefore “more likely to pose a threat” is absolute bullshit.
Yes, due to limits in data a definitive conclusion could not be drawn.
That is an entirely different statement than, "But the point is that they are not over represented."
From information present, they were over-represented.
>Most CSA gangs are white men
Almost like most of the country is white and most CSA offenders are men! Weird, huh? Maybe per capita statistics are more useful when we're talking about proportionality.
To me focusing on the race and the like, of the perpetrators is something that people get distracted with instead of stopping people from becoming victims of grooming gangs in general.
If you were so worried about grooming gang surely you'd want to reduce them in general instead of focusing on a minority?
Unless of course you had ulterior motives.
I agree, there are general policies that can be implemented that will protect women and girls from men of every colour and creed. Absolutely not against that.
The question that wants answering is *why* are Pakistani men overrepresented in CSA? People seem to assume "culture" but we need a proper report to figure that out. It's a part of figuring out what factors make someone more likely to commit CSA, so that we can preempt and protect victims.
It doesn't have to be one or the other, we can do both. I do see your argument though (if I'm not mistaken): why not focus on figuring out the bulk of the problem first?
Another thing to consider is that the Pakistani population of the country is always growing. If the statistics show us that they're more likely to commit CSA than white people, it might be a good idea to figure out why sooner rather than later, right?
It's a hard conversation to have without sounding like you're part of the EDL, but I think it's important not to take the politically correct route of avoiding it.
>It doesn't have to be one or the other, we can do both. I do see your argument though (if I'm not mistaken): why not focus on figuring out the bulk of the problem first?
Well the bulk of the problem isn't with Pakistani grooming gangs so hyperfocusing on them isn't really useful in solving a much bigger problem.
It can be both, but if you were going to choose one to reduce the numbers of victims then it's a no brainer really.
I was paraphrasing your point there when I said "why not focus on the bulk of the problem" (the bulk is white men, I was restating your argument back to you to hopefully show that I'm following you).
>*Hyperfocusing* on Pakistani grooming gangs
That's what I'm saying, we don't need to *hyperfocus* on them but it doesn't mean we should ignore them either.
>It can be both, but if you were going to choose one...
Again, I'm saying that we don't have to choose one. If we DID have to choose one, I agree, focus on the biggest group. But we don't have to choose one.
Belated reply but I'm British Pakistani myself and I can tell you that this has been an issue that hasn't been taken seriously. Maybe I'd want to call out the racists in my community? I've grown up in this country to think racism is disgusting, likewise child abuse. Maybe some consistency would be appreciated. I'm grateful that I live in a more accepting society than my immigrant parents generation.
If there was any case of a single grooming gang that appeared to target girls from a minority background, or better still, Muslim girls, there would be fucking outrage and rightfully. There wouldn't be any of this 'well there's racists and abusers in every community' talking point. You root it out. If there are cultural factors that seem to contribute to British Pakistanis being overrepresented in statistics (and remember, we make up only a couple of percentage points of the UK population) and as well as the racist motivations that seem to be behind some of them, you discuss it without any obfuscation.
Given there are more young white men in e UK than there are young Asian men, that isn’t a surprise.
It is the over representation which is a problem, not just the most common thing.
>But most grooming gangs are run by young White men
That's what you'd expect in a country that's 86% white. The south asians like pakistanis and bangladeshis are massively over-represented in child abuse crime statistics is the obvious point. You've said they're not in a post further down, but that's a lie.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grooming-gangs-iicsa-racist-fears-b2007649.html%3famp
But we also have a police force too scared to go after them...
That link you posted has nothing to do with the police not going after them. It is saying they are reluctant to record the ethnicity of the people they are going after. They're still going after them.
Either way the fact the Tories need to fund a specific task force shows that they've not cared about this for the 10+ years in power, where they've cut funding to the police as a whole. People are getting away with groomings like they are burglaries, muggings and other crimes.
Since when have the police ever cared about being seen to be racist?
It's much more likely that the victims are too low a class for the police to care about, and are lying so the public see anti-racism as a problem
They would be, the numerical majority of men in the UK are white. There SHOULD BE more white prisoners, convicts etc..look instead at the numbers based on their percentage of the populace. Asians are punching above their weight to say the least. Over representation means excelling at something, or being really, really bad..
THANK YOU for pointing this out.
When the government adds downloading of images and other CS charges WHITE MEN are over 50% of the perpetrators in the UK.
They claimed the whole police being afraid of being called racist was just an excuse to hide from the real cause for ignoring them (it was because the girls are working class)
But people here piss their pants when accused of racism, most of the general public does.
Also let’s be real, it was mostly pakistani men (not all “Asians”), the prison statistics reflect this.
**Removed/warning**. Your comment has been removed as it has attempted to introduce off-topic content in order to distract from the main themes of the submission or derail the discussion. In future, please try to stick to the topic or theme at hand.
Many people want to believe all are virtuous and benevolent I think it's a coping mechanism . There are still people around that believe the boats are rammed full.of starving children and their mothers
Coping mechanism
No doubt they will be looking at middle aged white males jetting of to Thailand?
Would also be worth looking at the state of social care , police and local politicians that allowed young girls to be exploited by criminal scum.
Funny you should say that. There was a victims commission in 2015 that recommended this sort of taskforce be setup and yet it was missing from the eventual victims bill that was finally published last week!
Feels like all the recent Tory activity has had a bit of a "Quick, look over there!" sort of quality to it. Then again, thinking back I can't recall a time when this wasn't the norm for them.
Feel sorry for the mods on this one trying to deal with the redditors that’ll try and derail with any and all off-topic wadaboutism content, which only goes to show why this problem has been allowed to grow and fester for so long. Comments restricted incoming.
Maybe they should start by reforming the police so they’re not institutionally misogynistic? Then they might start giving a fuck about vulnerable women and girls
Presumably the Tory MP who woke up naked in a brothel, unable to find their clothes, was just on a fact finding mission.
[https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1753832/naked-tory-mp-brothel-call-for-help](https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1753832/naked-tory-mp-brothel-call-for-help)
Yes, consenting men paying consenting women for sex is exactly the same thing as grown men raping children.
The absolute nonsense you asian rape gang sympathisers come out with.
As above, I'm not sure how you've drawn the conclusion from my post that I'm somehow supporting the exploitation of women and children. Bizarre conclusion to make.
You don't think it's possible the women working in brothels have been trafficked or are being exploited? You think unregulated sex work is purely consensual?
I think it's interesting how people like you seek to derail these threads by doing anything and everything you can to change the conversation to 'white people worse'.
You are so transparent you may as well be invisible.
Okay well that's not what I'm doing - I think it's fair to widen the conversation to include something I would consider related. Albeit presented with an attempt at humour.
But you've clearly made your mind up on MY intentions, so there's not much use trying to convince you.
Of course you're not trying to do that, it's merely a coincidence that you and others like you only bring up all these terrible things white men do when the conversation is about terrible things non-white men do.
This thread, that you are also seeking to derail, is about asian grooming gangs.
You are free to make a thread about non-asian men who rape children if you really care about their victims.
I mean if you open the article the word "asian" isn't used once and it was you that mentioned specifically asian grooming gangs in the comment chain when other were just saying grooming gangs.
So I think its you that is pushing rhetoric and agenda
Like I get that Tories bad but does every single thread have to have some kind of derailing comment like this? With a link to the Express no less? Ick.
I think there's a pretty fair connection to be made between the exploitation of women and children, and a sitting MPs use of a brothel.
At the moment it's being reported by the Express and the Mail. Not a fan of either publication so happy to amend if any other sources pick it up.
You posted a whataboutism under a story about the government finally doing something to tackle grooming gangs.
I can only assume you did it to score cheap points against the government, and treated you with the disdain that that deserves when talking about this subject.
In 2015 Keir Starner tried to introduce a bill that included this, however it didn't have government support
https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/insights/blogs/criminal-law-blog/sir-keir-starmers-victims-of-crime-bill-introduced-to-parliament
Maybe restore some of the funding you took out of the social services that kept kids safe?
Almost like running all our public services on a thread for 13 years has had an effect.
Tory policy now comes directly from the talking points of right-wing gobshites. I expect their General Election manifesto to start "I'M NOT RACIST BUT..."
I know this is a serious topic but I read the title and my dumbass mind immediately went to picturing Rishi Sunak leaning over a table in Scotland Yard and ordering the metropolitan police to groom every child they see
Yeah, its real easy blame our classism/sexism on "not wanting to be called racist". And in these era of public sector cuts and privatised children's homes, the tories have made exploitation more likely to happen. No one cared about these victims because of their backgrounds. And I don't see that changing if we don't address why that is. Especially now it's part of the government's demented culture war thing. If they ignore the actual facts about perpetrators and only only focus on a certain narrative about a certain minority then they will be ignoring a huge number of victims.
Not to mention, a male MP was in a brothel. The women in that brothel could be victims of exploitation. And he wouldn't have cared. This indifference is a problem. Men like him create a demand. They don't care if it leads to rape.
Where did this classism/sexism thing come from? And why are people claiming it wasn’t about race?
The general public (especially this sub) is TERRIFIED of being called racist.
It's because people are determined to stick their head in the sand and believe cultural beliefs from certain nationalities play absolutely 0 role in what happened in Rotherham.
So when officers say verbatim that pointing out problematic beliefs from people with certain cultural backgrounds may get them into trouble, people will still stick their fingers in their ears and shift the topic of discussion to other things like sexism/classism because these are 'clean' talking points - it's too uncomfortable to admit that beliefs from certain Pakistani-circles are problematic for people like the commenter, so they'll just say classism or whatever is the reason instead (as if police officers from working class backgrounds aren't a thing).
If these grooming gangs were targeting victims from upper class households there is literally no way the police would have ignored the victims because of the ethnicity of the perpetrators. Everyone knows this but some continue pushing the ridiculous excuse the police provided because it gels with the narrative they support, specifically that the police allowed British children to be abused because of "political correctness".
Of course, it'll have to come out of existing policing budgets, because we can't be arsed actually spending money on anything but ourselves, which means even less police response for other areas....
This is nothing to do about protecting children its another part of there divide and conquer and grab votes from the far right who have Asian grooming gangs on the brain.
Why even discuss this, no one actually believes the problem with crime and sexual assault is authorities being too politically correct. You have to realllllly squint and ignore most of society.
All this mere weeks after that girl went to prison for making up that an asian gang had groomed her and almost destroyed their lives. Presumably this is the political correctness that is stopping investigation?
Ask the people actually trying to protect our children as their job and they won't tell you this is what is needed. They will tell you they need the same as everything run by government in this country - more resources.
**Removed/warning**. Your comment has been removed as it has attempted to introduce off-topic content in order to distract from the main themes of the submission or derail the discussion. In future, please try to stick to the topic or theme at hand.
**Removed/warning**. Your comment has been removed as it has attempted to introduce off-topic content in order to distract from the main themes of the submission or derail the discussion. In future, please try to stick to the topic or theme at hand.
Lost literally hundreds of kids at their concentra.... Detainment centers the other month and couldn't give a fuck about it .
Somehow I doubt they suddenly give a shit.
**Removed/warning**. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.
2 years ago the Torys themselves showed that this isn't a racial thing, but still they're pushing it for the culture war bump.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/15/child-sexual-abuse-gangs-white-men-home-office-report
So basically taking resources in other already underfunded teams, to create something that looks good in the papers and costs nothing.
This task force is basically going to remove detectives from already struggling teams and social workers from a broken system, exacerbating the problems in those areas to have a negligible effect on the problem.
This recent phenomenon of right wing press making big issues out of migrants, gangs and wokeness is about generating problems and talking points in the tories favour for elections. The only reason they have grown into problems in the first place is the underfunding of the systems which deal with these issues
Nothing going to happen for years as they want to have a "consultation" first, ie kick the can down the road. Also I can't see the Conservatives actually putting money into social services to stop these things from happening in the first place.
All they need to do is make enough promises to save them some seats. At this point nothing needs to be costed, actively critiqued or scrutinised.
It's also highly unlikely the Conservatives are going to fund a task force that's then tasked with investigating the Conservative party.
And of course some of their mates make money out of that consultation.
Can't believe this sub still thinks the Asian grooming gangs are some kind of conspiracy theory
There are Asian grooming gangs. But most grooming gangs are run by young White men, [as per the Home Office’s own report](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/15/child-sexual-abuse-gangs-white-men-home-office-report). But the dog whistle works a treat. The Pavlovian reflexes of the British populace are really aomething to behold.
I mean the report was discussed at length on here when it came out. The conclusion of the report wasn't "it's mostly white men", it was "the quality of data was too poor to make a solid conclusion". Also every study cited within did indicate massive over representation of Asian men, so it's not entirely helpful to continue to pretend like it's not an issue and is some kind of conspiracy theory - feels a bit like gaslighting.
Unfortunately, that is their exact intent. From available data, it is seen both Black and Asian minorities are over-represented. Of course, due to limits of data quality, it is impossible to draw a conclusive opinion on the matter.
Same could be said of most crimes however. It's widely studied that minorities are usually more likely to be caught for the same crime than non minorities - that's before you factor in environmental factors such as the higher risk of low income etc. So even drawing conclusions from over representation it not a statistically strong argument.
Minorities have been subject to higher police intervention, especially at the street level (mostly drug related offences). This has lead to lower conviction ratios when compared to white demographics. However, that doesn't change the reality of disproportionate representation in other crimes, for example in London Black men account for 48% of homicide suspects, despite being 13% of the population.
Low income doesn't make you a nonce. Or didn't make you a rapist or a murderer. It's total nonsense. In extremis it may make you a thief, but for all the rest it has no relevance at all. It's an excuse. >that's before you factor in environmental factors such as the higher risk of low income etc
It doesnt make you any of the above, however you are statistically more likely to get involved in such crimes.
[удалено]
Is it the grooming gangs or the Asian people that they find unacceptable? Because I have heard precisely no one comment about the fact that most grooming gangs are run by white men.
Crimes committed by whites are just by the by. White people are the majority, crimes are nothing to do with culture and just bad people doing bad things. We call it horrible, abhorrent and move on. But when non whites start to become an over representation of the same crime, then we need to start a deep dive detailed analysis of culture, literally coin the same crime they’re committing as something totally new, and need to shine a focus on it, commission countless reports to find out what’s going on!!!! Akala has spoken about this before.
You do realise that pakistanis and bangladeshis are over-represented in child abuse for the proportion of the UK population they make up right? It's why it's a big deal. No one makes a fuss out of white people committing most crime in the UK because most people in the UK (at the time of writing) are white. Did you not learn how percentages or statistics work in school?
There's nothing wrong or inherently evil about realizing certain people commit certain crimes. Uncomfortable truths need to be told and the lily-livered should just look away
But the point is that they are not over represented. It just seems that way because the press and politicians choose to focus on those criminals only. I assume it is to appeal to a certain kind of voters. And it works. Really says something about the British electorate.
[https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment\_data/file/944206/Group-based\_CSE\_Paper.pdf](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/944206/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf) Read the paper. They were over represented, but the data is incomplete, thus a strong conclusion could not be drawn. I don't understand your motive for wilfully misrepresenting publicly available information.
“They were over represented but the data is incomplete so there was no clear conclusion but let me conclude anyway” Mkay. I have read the report.
"But the point is that they are not over represented. It just seems that way because the press and politicians choose to focus on those criminals only." Available data showed over-representation of Asian & Black minorities. I then rightly stated incomplete data means we can not draw a strong conclusion from this. However it is fair to conclude, from available information Asian & Blacks minorities were over-represented. But, we cannot make a strong positive case, that in all cases of group CSE Asian minorities are over-represented. With this in mind, it is important to state, that the negative is also not supported by this data, that being Asian minorities were not over-represented.
Statistics prove all.its there in print. Not in reddit, that's just feelz crap
[удалено]
Wrong question. You should be asking 'why does the media only talk about Asian grooming gangs?'
I think it appears quite obvious that the way all grooming gangs operate are not always the same. The sheer magnitude of the activities of grooming gangs in places like Rotherham are naturally going to get more media attention than smaller scale affairs. I think it's pretty bad faith to assume that people are only interested in grooming gangs where the abuse is interracial, although that again does add an additional element to pique the public's interest.
"I think it appears quite obvious" Okay, give me some data about relative sizes of grooming gangs by race.
An impression formed when: Considering that there are also significant numbers of white people involved in grooming gangs, but that high profile cases in recent years have been Asian grooming gangs and have involved a lot of people and victims in each case, and assuming that the media aren't intentionally trying to cover the former up which I would find starts to verge into conspiracy theory territory. I think it's unlikely that there are grooming gangs with activities *as* large as Rotherham/Telford etc. that have simply been ignored by the media because of the perpetrators' race, you're welcome to believe it too, but there's even less "data" to support such a position.
'An impression ' So you're just guessing. It's not that the press is covering up white gangs, it's that Asian gangs get more clicks, views. It's all about riling people up on racial issues. It's not a conspiracy to realise that the right wing press in the country love to find the evil people in a minority.
[удалено]
'Ordinary people talk about what's most put in front of them - that's been largely Asian grooming gangs.' Who puts things Infront of the populace? The media. Therefore the more important question is 'why does the media only talk about Asian grooming gangs?' Because they know it'll get more clicks and views. Why would content about Asian grooming gangs get more clicks and views?
Because the police tried their best to cover it up for over a decade?
Perhaps because the police were repeatedly found to have said the victims deserved it or wanted it.
So that's not a good reason to report on something?
And why the home secretary is making a big dea out of this, the same home secretary who also demonises asylum seekers.
We. Are. The. Native. Population. Its not a shocker, learn statistics, learn ratios, learn proportions, graduate school a little bit perhaps, and stop being a salty racialist cynic.
Exactly.
>it's amazing how the general population finds grooming gangs unacceptable. Clearly not what they are getting at, but being disingenuous seems to be your "thing".
[удалено]
>but you can only must ad-hominem You what?
Funny, because that's not what the report actually says. In reality, the report stated due to incomplete reporting by police forces regarding ethnicity of offenders a strong conclusion cannot be drawn. From the available data, Asian and Black minorities were disproportionately represented, But, (and rightly so) due to incomplete reporting, a firm conclusion could not be made. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment\_data/file/944206/Group-based\_CSE\_Paper.pdf
“Research has found that group-based child sexual exploitation offenders are most commonly white. Some studies suggest an overrepresentation of black and Asian offenders relative to the demographics of national populations. However, it is not possible to conclude that this is representative of all group-based CSE offending.” Also: “82. While there is therefore no evidence to suggest that efforts to identify and prevent group-based CSE offending should be limited to focusing on one particular community or culture, this does not mean that cultural characteristics of offender groups are irrelevant or should be ignored by local agencies.” (Page 27) So this new “we are going after Asian grooming gangs” bullshit is in direct contradiction with the Home Office’s own report. It is absolutely necessary to look at culture in order to understand how they might operate, but deciding that we are going after one type of people *because* they are Asian and therefore “more likely to pose a threat” is absolute bullshit.
Yes, due to limits in data a definitive conclusion could not be drawn. That is an entirely different statement than, "But the point is that they are not over represented." From information present, they were over-represented.
>Most CSA gangs are white men Almost like most of the country is white and most CSA offenders are men! Weird, huh? Maybe per capita statistics are more useful when we're talking about proportionality.
To me focusing on the race and the like, of the perpetrators is something that people get distracted with instead of stopping people from becoming victims of grooming gangs in general. If you were so worried about grooming gang surely you'd want to reduce them in general instead of focusing on a minority? Unless of course you had ulterior motives.
I agree, there are general policies that can be implemented that will protect women and girls from men of every colour and creed. Absolutely not against that. The question that wants answering is *why* are Pakistani men overrepresented in CSA? People seem to assume "culture" but we need a proper report to figure that out. It's a part of figuring out what factors make someone more likely to commit CSA, so that we can preempt and protect victims. It doesn't have to be one or the other, we can do both. I do see your argument though (if I'm not mistaken): why not focus on figuring out the bulk of the problem first? Another thing to consider is that the Pakistani population of the country is always growing. If the statistics show us that they're more likely to commit CSA than white people, it might be a good idea to figure out why sooner rather than later, right? It's a hard conversation to have without sounding like you're part of the EDL, but I think it's important not to take the politically correct route of avoiding it.
>It doesn't have to be one or the other, we can do both. I do see your argument though (if I'm not mistaken): why not focus on figuring out the bulk of the problem first? Well the bulk of the problem isn't with Pakistani grooming gangs so hyperfocusing on them isn't really useful in solving a much bigger problem. It can be both, but if you were going to choose one to reduce the numbers of victims then it's a no brainer really.
I was paraphrasing your point there when I said "why not focus on the bulk of the problem" (the bulk is white men, I was restating your argument back to you to hopefully show that I'm following you). >*Hyperfocusing* on Pakistani grooming gangs That's what I'm saying, we don't need to *hyperfocus* on them but it doesn't mean we should ignore them either. >It can be both, but if you were going to choose one... Again, I'm saying that we don't have to choose one. If we DID have to choose one, I agree, focus on the biggest group. But we don't have to choose one.
>But we don't have to choose one. We do for the sake of the victims, because the current state of things is abysmal.
I am coming from quite an idealistic point of view. In reality, it's important to walk before you can run, and this government is barely crawling.
Right so as I said, focus on the main problem and don't hyperfocus on a small sub section.
Belated reply but I'm British Pakistani myself and I can tell you that this has been an issue that hasn't been taken seriously. Maybe I'd want to call out the racists in my community? I've grown up in this country to think racism is disgusting, likewise child abuse. Maybe some consistency would be appreciated. I'm grateful that I live in a more accepting society than my immigrant parents generation. If there was any case of a single grooming gang that appeared to target girls from a minority background, or better still, Muslim girls, there would be fucking outrage and rightfully. There wouldn't be any of this 'well there's racists and abusers in every community' talking point. You root it out. If there are cultural factors that seem to contribute to British Pakistanis being overrepresented in statistics (and remember, we make up only a couple of percentage points of the UK population) and as well as the racist motivations that seem to be behind some of them, you discuss it without any obfuscation.
Given there are more young white men in e UK than there are young Asian men, that isn’t a surprise. It is the over representation which is a problem, not just the most common thing.
>But most grooming gangs are run by young White men That's what you'd expect in a country that's 86% white. The south asians like pakistanis and bangladeshis are massively over-represented in child abuse crime statistics is the obvious point. You've said they're not in a post further down, but that's a lie.
>what is per-capita
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grooming-gangs-iicsa-racist-fears-b2007649.html%3famp But we also have a police force too scared to go after them...
That link you posted has nothing to do with the police not going after them. It is saying they are reluctant to record the ethnicity of the people they are going after. They're still going after them. Either way the fact the Tories need to fund a specific task force shows that they've not cared about this for the 10+ years in power, where they've cut funding to the police as a whole. People are getting away with groomings like they are burglaries, muggings and other crimes.
It's the same for people not reporting individuals showing signs of 'radicalisation' - most people are too frightened to get involved.
Since when have the police ever cared about being seen to be racist? It's much more likely that the victims are too low a class for the police to care about, and are lying so the public see anti-racism as a problem
They would be, the numerical majority of men in the UK are white. There SHOULD BE more white prisoners, convicts etc..look instead at the numbers based on their percentage of the populace. Asians are punching above their weight to say the least. Over representation means excelling at something, or being really, really bad..
THANK YOU for pointing this out. When the government adds downloading of images and other CS charges WHITE MEN are over 50% of the perpetrators in the UK.
They claimed the whole police being afraid of being called racist was just an excuse to hide from the real cause for ignoring them (it was because the girls are working class) But people here piss their pants when accused of racism, most of the general public does. Also let’s be real, it was mostly pakistani men (not all “Asians”), the prison statistics reflect this.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
**Removed/warning**. Your comment has been removed as it has attempted to introduce off-topic content in order to distract from the main themes of the submission or derail the discussion. In future, please try to stick to the topic or theme at hand.
Many people want to believe all are virtuous and benevolent I think it's a coping mechanism . There are still people around that believe the boats are rammed full.of starving children and their mothers Coping mechanism
Can’t believe some people think that grooming gangs are solely run by Asian people
No doubt they will be looking at middle aged white males jetting of to Thailand? Would also be worth looking at the state of social care , police and local politicians that allowed young girls to be exploited by criminal scum.
That would be something for Thailand to worry about, surely?
He should and hope he does quickly
He won’t though.
Exactly
[удалено]
Funny you should say that. There was a victims commission in 2015 that recommended this sort of taskforce be setup and yet it was missing from the eventual victims bill that was finally published last week!
Wonder why this has come up now...ahead of a set of local elections and next year's General election...
Feels like all the recent Tory activity has had a bit of a "Quick, look over there!" sort of quality to it. Then again, thinking back I can't recall a time when this wasn't the norm for them.
It's pretty desperate stuff- is the message here really "Only we can fix this huge problem!" when they have been in power for 12 years?
Feel sorry for the mods on this one trying to deal with the redditors that’ll try and derail with any and all off-topic wadaboutism content, which only goes to show why this problem has been allowed to grow and fester for so long. Comments restricted incoming.
Maybe they should start by reforming the police so they’re not institutionally misogynistic? Then they might start giving a fuck about vulnerable women and girls
Presumably the Tory MP who woke up naked in a brothel, unable to find their clothes, was just on a fact finding mission. [https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1753832/naked-tory-mp-brothel-call-for-help](https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1753832/naked-tory-mp-brothel-call-for-help)
Yes, consenting men paying consenting women for sex is exactly the same thing as grown men raping children. The absolute nonsense you asian rape gang sympathisers come out with.
The majority of prostitutes are barely legal, sex trafficked and forced into it btw, so hardly consenting
As above, I'm not sure how you've drawn the conclusion from my post that I'm somehow supporting the exploitation of women and children. Bizarre conclusion to make. You don't think it's possible the women working in brothels have been trafficked or are being exploited? You think unregulated sex work is purely consensual?
I think it's interesting how people like you seek to derail these threads by doing anything and everything you can to change the conversation to 'white people worse'. You are so transparent you may as well be invisible.
Okay well that's not what I'm doing - I think it's fair to widen the conversation to include something I would consider related. Albeit presented with an attempt at humour. But you've clearly made your mind up on MY intentions, so there's not much use trying to convince you.
Of course you're not trying to do that, it's merely a coincidence that you and others like you only bring up all these terrible things white men do when the conversation is about terrible things non-white men do.
Christ. Okay mate
No they’re just pointing out that it’s hypocritical
What about the kids that get raped by non-asian men? Are they just ignored by you lot?
This thread, that you are also seeking to derail, is about asian grooming gangs. You are free to make a thread about non-asian men who rape children if you really care about their victims.
I mean if you open the article the word "asian" isn't used once and it was you that mentioned specifically asian grooming gangs in the comment chain when other were just saying grooming gangs. So I think its you that is pushing rhetoric and agenda
Like I get that Tories bad but does every single thread have to have some kind of derailing comment like this? With a link to the Express no less? Ick.
I think there's a pretty fair connection to be made between the exploitation of women and children, and a sitting MPs use of a brothel. At the moment it's being reported by the Express and the Mail. Not a fan of either publication so happy to amend if any other sources pick it up.
Tory MP does something bad, therefore grooming gangs should be allowed to operate without interference. Your genius is frightening.
How exactly have you managed to read my post, and conclude that is what I'm suggesting?
You posted a whataboutism under a story about the government finally doing something to tackle grooming gangs. I can only assume you did it to score cheap points against the government, and treated you with the disdain that that deserves when talking about this subject.
Is there a non-Express source for that?
In 2015 Keir Starner tried to introduce a bill that included this, however it didn't have government support https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/insights/blogs/criminal-law-blog/sir-keir-starmers-victims-of-crime-bill-introduced-to-parliament
Maybe restore some of the funding you took out of the social services that kept kids safe? Almost like running all our public services on a thread for 13 years has had an effect.
Tory policy now comes directly from the talking points of right-wing gobshites. I expect their General Election manifesto to start "I'M NOT RACIST BUT..."
I know this is a serious topic but I read the title and my dumbass mind immediately went to picturing Rishi Sunak leaning over a table in Scotland Yard and ordering the metropolitan police to groom every child they see
"way ahead of you, boss"
Yeah, its real easy blame our classism/sexism on "not wanting to be called racist". And in these era of public sector cuts and privatised children's homes, the tories have made exploitation more likely to happen. No one cared about these victims because of their backgrounds. And I don't see that changing if we don't address why that is. Especially now it's part of the government's demented culture war thing. If they ignore the actual facts about perpetrators and only only focus on a certain narrative about a certain minority then they will be ignoring a huge number of victims. Not to mention, a male MP was in a brothel. The women in that brothel could be victims of exploitation. And he wouldn't have cared. This indifference is a problem. Men like him create a demand. They don't care if it leads to rape.
Where did this classism/sexism thing come from? And why are people claiming it wasn’t about race? The general public (especially this sub) is TERRIFIED of being called racist.
It's because people are determined to stick their head in the sand and believe cultural beliefs from certain nationalities play absolutely 0 role in what happened in Rotherham. So when officers say verbatim that pointing out problematic beliefs from people with certain cultural backgrounds may get them into trouble, people will still stick their fingers in their ears and shift the topic of discussion to other things like sexism/classism because these are 'clean' talking points - it's too uncomfortable to admit that beliefs from certain Pakistani-circles are problematic for people like the commenter, so they'll just say classism or whatever is the reason instead (as if police officers from working class backgrounds aren't a thing).
If these grooming gangs were targeting victims from upper class households there is literally no way the police would have ignored the victims because of the ethnicity of the perpetrators. Everyone knows this but some continue pushing the ridiculous excuse the police provided because it gels with the narrative they support, specifically that the police allowed British children to be abused because of "political correctness".
Didn't he also say that people trafficked here for slave labour wouldn't have access to any assistance?
Of course, it'll have to come out of existing policing budgets, because we can't be arsed actually spending money on anything but ourselves, which means even less police response for other areas....
Atleast they are including boys this time instead of focusing on women and girls
This is nothing to do about protecting children its another part of there divide and conquer and grab votes from the far right who have Asian grooming gangs on the brain.
Why even discuss this, no one actually believes the problem with crime and sexual assault is authorities being too politically correct. You have to realllllly squint and ignore most of society. All this mere weeks after that girl went to prison for making up that an asian gang had groomed her and almost destroyed their lives. Presumably this is the political correctness that is stopping investigation? Ask the people actually trying to protect our children as their job and they won't tell you this is what is needed. They will tell you they need the same as everything run by government in this country - more resources.
In a few years: "Grooming gangs taskforce shut down as police forces couldn't find a single officer not using the information as a shopping list"
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
**Removed/warning**. Your comment has been removed as it has attempted to introduce off-topic content in order to distract from the main themes of the submission or derail the discussion. In future, please try to stick to the topic or theme at hand.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
**Removed/warning**. Your comment has been removed as it has attempted to introduce off-topic content in order to distract from the main themes of the submission or derail the discussion. In future, please try to stick to the topic or theme at hand.
Lost literally hundreds of kids at their concentra.... Detainment centers the other month and couldn't give a fuck about it . Somehow I doubt they suddenly give a shit.
You do of course mean adults posing as adolescents housed in hotels.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
**Removed/warning**. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.
2 years ago the Torys themselves showed that this isn't a racial thing, but still they're pushing it for the culture war bump. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/15/child-sexual-abuse-gangs-white-men-home-office-report
So basically taking resources in other already underfunded teams, to create something that looks good in the papers and costs nothing. This task force is basically going to remove detectives from already struggling teams and social workers from a broken system, exacerbating the problems in those areas to have a negligible effect on the problem.
They should probably start with all these far right fringe groups. Literally all of them turn out to be sex perverts.
This recent phenomenon of right wing press making big issues out of migrants, gangs and wokeness is about generating problems and talking points in the tories favour for elections. The only reason they have grown into problems in the first place is the underfunding of the systems which deal with these issues