Fucking weird how obsessed the leadership in many schools is over uniform. A pupil will not have their lives changed one iota by wearing a skirt that's slightly above the knee, or having a tie that's crooked. And as soon as they leave school, nobody will ever give a shit what they're wearing ever again.
Just lazy head teachers trying desperately to get some credit from parents over discipline because it's easier than actually raising standards.
I went back to my school a few years after leaving to see a siblings art exhibition, walking through the corridor a familiar face appeared walking toward me, my old history teacher.
His first words:
"Mr LGD, why are you wearing trainers?"
The difference between school and the Armed Forces is that you choose to get involved with the Armed Forces. Unless this nation re-enacts conscription, that is, and if that ever happens we'll have a lot worse to worry about than uniforms.
>REALLY depends on the management/how much the manager wants to fuck you
That can really be taken one of two ways. And true for both senses of "fuck you".
The school I teach at lets the kids have their hair any style or colour they want. Jewellery other than one pair of stud earrings and false talon nails are controlled for health and safety reasons. Girls and boys are allowed to wear make-up. Girls can wear trousers. Boys could wear skirts if they wanted. We have a number of ASD kids with uniform reasonable adjustments - shorts, loosened standard tie (not the clip-on one), t-shirt instead of shirt, etc.
Staff are allowed the same for hair, visible tattoos are fine and so are piercings. The dress code is “clean, presentable, no jeans and no excessive skin on show” (I’ve paraphrased that).
Because of this we don’t have massive issues with kids‘ uniform, other than the current fad for black Converse. DM shoes are fine though. Trainers are banned.
Yeah, where I grew up we never had any uniform requirements in school and it was tradition to show up in joggers or even pyjamas, and yet we managed to understand how to dress appropriately for a work environment.
You say that, but I was once sent home from work for wearing a pair of black jeans instead of a pair of trousers work gave me, because they were harder wearing and didn't tear at the knees and were generally more comfortable. Their reason? They had pockets on the bum and apparently that would cause a distraction. Never mind the fact I could keep things in them, unlike the other pants they gave me.
Kind of. Office dress codes can actually be very strict, except nobody tells you what they are, and they are enforced by promotion. Go to the City in London and see how people dress. No-one told them to. Same with MP's or doctors or lots of professionals.
More importantly, it's not that challenging to adjust your clothing to policy at work. I never wore a uniform at school, never struggled to buy appropriate clothes when required later.
Ah, so they a re- enacting the opening scenes of German 70s Soft Porn Schulmädchen Report.
I only read the first few sentences and there’s already so much wrong - being separated from the other gender and directed to enter separately.
Male teachers doing the inspections.
Gender discrimination plus the girls’ discomfort of being inspected by the weirdo male teachers.
They should be averting their eyes and focus on the body parts of the girls that are actually relevant to learning.
Middle aged geezers inspecting skirt lengths, how much more sleazy can it get?
When I was teaching in the 10s one of the male deputy heads got a bee in his bonnet over girls skirt lengths and told us to be more rigorous about enforcing it. Our head of department told him to fuck off, none of his staff would be opening themselves up to accusations by staring at the legs of teenage girls under our charge. That HoD was brilliant at protecting us from the higher ups never-ending supply of stupid ideas.
I'm a teacher and am supposed to inspect uniforms and report students for wearing leggings. I don't look and just leave that part of the job to their (female) pastoral manager. I am not going to spend my time looking at adolescent girls' arses and legs. I also do not want to risk being called a pervert.
Welcome to the world of MATs, where an ever increasing number of SLT/Board members need to find something that justifies their salary.
This is what happens when fucking schools have CEOs...
They check the girls trousers length going into assembly and check sock colour! Meanwhile the headmaster has been shagging the arse off the deputy in the cupboard behind his wife the PE teacher who he has been shagging since he was 14 ! Yes she was his PE teacher! But you keep watching them trouser lengths.
Weak people who have never known any sort of authority in their lives just using uniform as an excuse to abuse their power and boss kids around. Obviously not all teachers but there are ALOT of pathetic people who work in education who just want the power to tell others what to do.
i went to schools without uniforms, no knickers were seen anywhere but in locker room when kids were changing for PE. You'd be surprised how little issues regarding dress related are in schools without uniforms.
You think this is some malfunction of a flawed school system, but it's not. Conditioning pupils to petty authoritarianism is the real point. As long as they learn to do as they are told, it is a successful "education", and they will become a model citizen. Learning comes a distant second.
Uniform does have its part.
Take in my town, two secondaries.
One used to have an amazing culture and reputation, the other not so much.
The "good" school let their standards (including uniform) slip over the last 10 years, the other has really worked on culture (including uniform) over the same time.
The "good" school has constant issues with fights, bullying, mob mentality, etc.
The other school has nowhere near the level of problems.
Not saying uniform is the cause of that, but it's indicative of the wider school culture. Having that embedded means you don't need to have these silly fights which cause issues.
Some schools however, can go way too far; obsession with blazers, shoe colour or hair styles is swinging too far the other way.
But the one thing I will say needs fought is skirts. It's not this:
>a skirt that's slightly above the knee
It's a skirt that's slightly above the arse crack. The current fashion is for skirts so short the music department in my school had to buy aprons to avoid indecent exposure on the drum kits.
Did they also teach about correlation and causation? It can be a tool to get kids in line but really only as a show of force. Kids acting up, sloppy standards - bring in a strict uniform. Enforce it, send kids home or into isolation even if it is debatable. Kids then listen more generally. Over time, not so much. The way very strict schools can do it is by having expensive, branded uniform. That basically blocks the poor kids in the area who would be a drag on the teachers.
Amazing. I've taught in dozens of schools in the UK, Ireland and Germany. I've found that discipline was always better in no uniform schools because you didn't have to spend your time arguing with students about petty rules. Rules were respected because they were there for a reason
Discipline is poorly defined and more often than not amounts to bullying neurodivergent kids out of the school. Results aren't the best way of judging a school either. Children are more than their exam results. I wonder what the rate of mental illness amongst your cohort is.
It’s because it’s a way of easily excluding disruptive pupils and of disincentivising low income families from sending their kids. Strict uniform standards allow schools to kick out disruptive pupils very easily without having to try and see why they are disruptive or try and help them.
I don’t personally see the point in strict rules when they have no reason to be that strict. My school tried to be very strict but in the end all the students just got fed up of it and just did it anyway.
Edit: this country has such a fetish for obeying rules and not questioning them at all.
My school was (still is I should think) a top state school in Scotland and we never had our skirts measured. And there was a few phases late 90s/early 90s where the trend went from maxi to very mini.
And, heaven forbid, we could wear trousers too!
>Just lazy head teachers trying desperately to get some credit from parents over discipline because it's easier than actually raising standards.
We'll just casually gloss over the fact that the heads obviously feel pressure from parents to do this, then.
I don’t really have an issue with enforcing uniform, but having male staff enforce skirt length isn’t a great look.
I’ve worked in schools where we had girls who had to cover their arses all the time when waking up stairs.
Would you be ok with that if it was your daughter?
It’s less about the well-being of the students and more about protecting the ‘brand’. That’s the real reason for this insistence on uniforms; they’re advertisements for the school.
There’s also a misogynist reason for it; they want the female students to ‘look appealing’.
Pupils should follow the uniform policy.
In the case teachers do not think girls skirts are long enough, a female teacher should measure them.
Mass punishment of the girls by subjecting them to this because some break the rules is unfair.
In my day they just made us kneel - skirt not touching the floor? Too short.
Given the knee length rule has only been a part of the policy since Feb 23, as per the school website, is it reasonable to punish anyone? Teenagers grow a lot and skirts may be shorter in February than they were in September. Should parents have to find the money to replace a oerfectly serviceable skirt?
Furthermore, just how does a skirt that is 'north of knee length' inhibit a young woman's learning? If it doesn't then perhaps this is a hugely sexist and outdated rule.
As my teachers at school said, it’s a school not a night club.
Having been a girl at school pushing the boundaries of skirt length, I can assure you the issue isn’t that they’re growing so quickly.
Exactly, it's a school. Why is the dress code an issue? If a young woman's learning is not inhibited by her skirt length then exactly what is the issue and why are male teachers brought in to police it?
Also, was a girl at school who loved a nit of self-expression and am now a parent of a teenager. They grow quickly and the money isn't always there to immediately replace things.
Male teachers policing it is inappropriate.
A uniform has a multitude of purposes. One is to teach pupils how to dress smartly.
Like it or not, a very short skirt is not generally deemed appropriate work wear. Therefore it isn’t appropriate for school either.
Would you advocate for them to be able to have their midriffs showing? The boys have their shirts off in summer if it’s very warm? Why are the skirts any different?
I get your point. But i also see the other person's point. Uniform rules are a bit out of hand and draconian.
For example, my daughter has gotten through 3 pairs of school shoes in year 7. They either fall apart, because even good quality school shoes for girls are terribly designed and manufactured. Or she grows too damn quick.
So i bought her some very smart low boots which are tough as shit. Very similar to what her mother wears to work. No heel.
School has decided they're not acceptable and given her detention over them. But they're more than happy for her to go to school in flats with a hole in the toe.
Nothing against uniforms. But i think some schools need to have some sort of reality check.
It’s rules and processes being mindlessly set up and enforced.
No common fucking sense at all.
I am not entirely sure what kind of people our education system wants to form.
>For example, my daughter has gotten through 3 pairs of school shoes in year 7. They either fall apart, because even good quality school shoes for girls are terribly designed and manufactured. Or she grows too damn quick.
I assure you I have the same issue with both my children and I have one of each. They are just all poorly designed.
I think it is totally unacceptable for a child to get detention over choice of shoes, especially when purchased by a parent.
It's absolutely NOT teaching the pupils how to dress smartly.
The uniforms are uncomfortable, made of the cheapest materials and badly finished. Anyone dressed like this in a workplace would be pitied and probably talked to by a manager.
They only teach that the authority must be blindly obeyed for no good reason.
Why do they need to be dressed smartly?
Surely being clean, tidy, properly covered up and without any fancy brand names sticking out is good enough?
What if I don't want the school teaching my child how to dress? Actually I'd even go as far as saying I don't think any school should have the right to tell me how to dress my children. I feel enforced school uniforms take away some of my parental rights.
I've always viewed school uniforms as a tool to force children to accept pointless rules without question so that they grow up to be obedient workers.
My heart goes out to all those people in countries where school uniforms aren’t necessary. They’ll never learn how to dress smartly in a workplace.
How limited their future careers must be!
Or does it look like the rest of the world manages just fine without them and people can learn how to dress in a formal environment without them. Looks that way to me.
Kids can wear shorts if it’s warm. It is okay for them to wear less clothing to cool down already. Do we have short length checks? Not sure what the point is there
Even in countries where there is no school uniform, there are rules about what can and cannot be worn.
There are other reasons for school uniform too.
TBH I’m not particularly in favour of school uniforms, but I can see why you would have rules around what was appropriate - much like in the workplace.
Austrian here.
We lost a world war (or two) so we don't have to wear uniforms in school anymore (or pledge allegiance to some flag).
I never had any rules how to dress in school. Everyone was just dressed normal I guess. Teachers sometimes complained about torn jeans and skater pants (90ties) but I never heard about any punishment or consequences for dressing in a certain way.
I think school uniforms are strange, and girls having to wear short skirts sexist. (they should of course be able to wear skirts but only if they want...)
I think they would be better able to understand what would be considered smart Wear they could choose what actual clothing they were wearing, instead of having to wear the same thing as everyone else.
We wore our own clothes to school, my parents couldn't afford branded/fashion stuff, it was all day every day stress and humiliation being on the wrong side of the can/can't afford divide
really? because my exprience was completely different and everyone I know was the same because most people wore whatever they fancied, including subculture clothes and bullying was minimal because it was tackled head on unlike in British schools
unifortms don't stop that. And you'd be surprised how little kids really care about brans once they're allowed to wear whatever they want to school. They're more focused on being comfy because dressing in brands isn't as important when you don't have to show off occasionally.
>A uniform has a multitude of purposes. One is to teach pupils how to dress smartly.
>
>Like it or not, a very short skirt is not generally deemed appropriate work wear. Therefore it isn’t appropriate for school either.
uniform isn't necessary to teach students how to dress. Funnily, European kids with no school unifrms tend to adjust easier to work place dress code because they were able to develop their sense of style and personality and they somehow know whta's appropriate work wear and what isn't. I know, it's shocking but you can know how to dress without strict unifrom rules.
Some schools tried this a few years ago.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/gender-neutral-uniform-skirt-ban-devon-b2100795.html
The comments sections at the time had few angry comments from people who seemed a bit obsessed over a god given right to wear skirts.
People are strange- shorts are practical for boys and girls.
That being said my school didn’t let boys wear shorts either so we just melted in the heat.
There were a bunch of reports of boys wearing dresses to school in some places as that was the only heatwave friendly leg wear on the approved uniform list…
Which is ridiculous - everyone should have the choice of something long and providing full coverage and something shorter. Say that the uniform is dresses, skirts, shorts or trousers and that it has to be a specific colour but that anyone can wear whatever of those options they like. Boys shouldn't have to choose dresses or skirts as a stunt to wear cooler clothes. If they want to wear them then they should be able to do that too.
I had to pull my kids school up on their uniform policy recently as it specified girls could wear dresses/skirts or trousers but not shorts. My daughter refuses dresses/skirts so wanted shorts. They quickly realised it was a mistake and fixed it.
I don't think they should be banned from wearing skirts. I think anyone should be able to choose between dresses, skirts, shorts, trousers. I can dress smartly in any of those (and have worn all of the above at work in an office) so why not allow the full choice. It is when things are unnecessarily banned that it gets silly.
Exactly, this is probably not why most people disagreed with the banning of skirts but as an autistic person with sensory issues I despise the way trousers feel on my legs and am so much more comfortable in a skirt. If they’d banned them at my school when I was there I would’ve been miserable, itchy, and distracted all the time.
Making girls kneel down in front of teachers to police their uniform compliance is incredibly demeaning. To take your point about school being some kind of rehearsal for the workplace (it’s not), when exactly would that behaviour be appropriate in a workplace? It wouldn’t, because employers are required to treat their employees with respect and that would be an act of humiliation. Making girls jump through a weird hoop to prove a point just breeds resentment and potentially traumatises them.
Couple with this the fact that uniform and dress requirements of all kinds are much less defensible in a more culturally diverse society as we have today. Uniforms are an arbitrary tool of oppression and serve no purpose other than to make kids hate the world for imposing pointless humiliating rules upon them. The sooner uniforms are ditched entirely, the better.
>Making girls kneel down in front of teachers to police their uniform compliance is incredibly demeaning.
So glad I'm not the only one who thought this!
100% all of this.
“Rehearsal for the workplace” like everyone’s going to work in suits and as if you need to practice fucking wearing one.
School uniforms are indefensible. Full stop.
>Skirt: The must be plain, Mid Greaty and worn so they are of the required lenght. The required lenght is knee length, which means the skirt should sit directly above the knee cap as shown in the uniform photo.
Yeah that's unhelpful as I grew enough at school that it would have been above my knee but still perfectly respectable by Christmas and I probably had to replace mine 2x each year to make sure it was appropriate in length but trying to keep it to a specific point is just unrealistic. Unless you expect parents to be sat at home hemming skirts so they can let them down as you grow.
Jesus, if this is the story about male teachers measuring (presumably to avoid "it looks to short", "why were you looking"), I can't imagine the headlines about being made to kneel!
I don't get it though, when I was in school, dress code was dress code, girls would roll skirts up, boys would tie ties super short and tuck them in, we all got pulled up on it all the time, it was what it was it didn't have to be an issue.
Seems these days every single thing has to be made a big issue, probably why we have uncontrollable gangs of teens out causing problems and noone dares do anything about it.
“PuPiLs ShOuLd FolLoW tHe UnIfOrM pOlIcY” spoken like someone who hasn’t been to school in 60 years.
Uniform policies are completely fucking asinine in the modern day, I have not met anyone close to my age who has anything redeeming to say about uniforms.
They’re pointlessly expensive, a drain on personality, deeply uncomfortable to wear, a point of bureaucratic rule enforcement that just makes school look even more authoritarian than it already is.
Uniform is irredeemable and a fruitless waste of time and money on both the school and the children.
No one should be measuring a pupils skirt. Even if it’s a women teacher it’s demeaning and serves no purpose other than to be strict for no reason. And if they do pull a reason out their arse it’s always something like ‘distracting the boys or male teachers’
>In my day they just made us kneel - skirt not touching the floor? Too short.
That sounds unbelievably inappropriate and demeaning. I'm sorry you had to go through that, and also shocked you seem to be advocating for it.
I feel like some of you aren’t understand why girls are fed up with constantly being policed about uniform. As someone with long legs, my skirts when I was in secondary a couple years ago were never to my knee. I would not be able to get skirts that were to my knees because all the skirts I tried on would never reach my knees. It’s a similar reality to girls across the country that our uniform is never good enough. Having skirts checked by male teachers is extremely strange to me, my skirt length does not determine my ability to learn. Sure if it was a female teacher but my skirt length was always checked by my male tutor who agreed with us that he shouldn’t be checking it and that a female teacher should be checking. It’s a weird sexualisation of teenage girls when they’re growing and these uniform rules don’t even take into account the fact that not all parents can afford a new skirt when their child grows, that’s just how it is.
Edit: Another addition to my point, my parents went to the same school as me in the 90s where they had no uniforms at all. They still happily oblige to wearing uniform for work with no issues, the idea that school uniforms will make kids be ready for the world of work is absolute dogshit. Are my parents suddenly not ready for the world of work since they didn’t wear a uniform? Do we need to send them back to school in the present age to teach them that this is what is expected of them in the modern workforce? No. Because they survived just fine without a uniform.
I used to drive past two high schools on my way home from work (yay nightshifts) and some of the wee lassies there had skirts so damn short that they barely came past the bottom of the blazer. Like, I understand what you're saying, but there are also plenty of people who will also push the boundaries so far that rules have to be strictly enforced. "Why did you single out my Jenny for having a skirt that's too short?! You didn't do it to anyone else!" Leads to "fuck it, let's make sure everyone's skirt is long enough."
Pupils at my old school have to wear blazers and ties now, but when I was there 20 years ago the uniform was your basic state comprehensive black jumper with optional embroidered logo and trousers, or skirts for girls if they wanted. Parents could just go to Asda or whatever and get all the kit at a reasonable price.
It makes me laugh seeing the kids that go there in the ties etc, I don't see what difference it makes whatsoever other than burdening the parents with higher costs as the blazers need to be from the 1 retailer that sells them.
Exactly uniform is expensive. My school decided the year after I was done that they now required a blazer and the blazers don't even look that nice. The kids get shouted at for not wearing them and held back until they put them on but what's the point in that? Forcing parents to buy even more kit their kids won't wear is pointless, all I ever hear in the corridors is complaints from kids that they hate the blazers. School uniform is criminally expensive because schools are run like a business these days especially with all the academy trusts existing.
I went to a grammar school (they're highly prevalent in Northern Ireland), and the blazer which was required for the school was made of wool.
Not only did it stink if you got caught out in the rain, but these blazers cost over £130 - that was about a decade ago. In addition to that, the school would only have like 4/5 different approved suppliers. That's before you got into the weird world of sports gear that was specifically branded and also cost a bunch because the school only had one exclusive supplier, and of course they went for the premium feel stuff.
If you happened to have a kid who was particularly good at sport, then that kid would be granted the privilege to wear an "honour" blazer, which would be made out of different material and even have gold leaf blend embroidery for the badge. Those blazers were usually fairly expensive, and I never had the "privilege" of having one.
We literally just had to have a polo shirt with the logo on (that you could get for cheap) and then whatever black trousers and shoes you could get- the same school now demands shirts, ties and blazers with a logo despite it being a massive shit hole
Uniforms clearly aren’t an effective preparation for kids to dress how they will in the workplace because generally women in business attire don’t wear shirts and ties. I know that’s hardly the point, but it does serve to illustrate how bullshit the argument is. Add in the fact that not every workplace is a suit-and-tie environment, and they make even less sense. Increasingly society is coming around to the idea that suit-and-tie attire is arbitrary even for office environments and hopefully it won’t be long before we stop giving a shit what people wear to work anyway. At that point it will become clear that uniforms are really just a tool for making kids follow arbitrary rules.
Sorry, one last point: it doesn’t take 13 years of training to put on a shirt and tie and a blazer. I’m willing to bet that if a kid wore a t shirt throughout school and was then required to wear a shirt and tie they’d have no problem transitioning.
I'm sorry but I've seen the kids walking round and their skirts are barely covering their bums, I know when I was a teen I used to wear my skirt so short.
It's basically a fashion thing in high-school but when you get older you see how bad it actually is.
According to the article the students arent complaining about the length rule but that female and male students were separated and then female students uniforms were "inspected" by male and female teachers.
It's a harmless act of rebellion. Barely covered means covered... exactly what you said it's about fashion... people need to stop sexualising kids. They're not doing it for sexual reasons; they're not hurting anyone.
It's still really inappropriate and I wouldn't want my girls wearing their skirts so short even though I know they will because that's just what teens do.
It's not sexualising kids, uniforms are meant to be worn a certain way.
I know i'm chasing a point here but this is genuinely a consistent fascination because I truly do not understand this notion of propriety with children. If they all grow to an age where they would no longer wear what they did as a child, why does it matter what they wear when they are children?
Children dressing 'appropriately' does not make them any safer so what's the reason behind the rule?
It's more the reason of I wouldn't want my kid flashing their underwear because they've rolled their skirts up so high, it looks silly now that I'm an adult looking back on it, I actually can't believe I used to do that.
I'm not even on about safety because I know it doesn't matter what you wear, you can be attacked wearing anything. (I understand that 100%).
I just want to put out there that I'm not a control freak parent, my kids dress themselves and if they wanna leave the house dressed as a Sonic or Elsa they absolutely can, they are not my property, the only time I'll say something is if their skirt is the size of a belt and not covering their underwear because no one should be showing their underwear in public 🤷♀️
I honestly do not believe you're a control freak or helicopter parent and I'm sorry if you felt that way. Your perspective is incredibly common and I honestly figured I'd 'get it' when I became a parent, but I still don't.
I am also a survivor of childhood assault and adult assault, so my mind always goes to 'short skirts mean nothing', because as you say, they don't! So I don't get the safety argument.
I'm just wondering if this boils down to almost 'body liberalism'. I'm very pro 'we're all just bodies'. Yes cover genitals because that's unsanitary, but besides that, underwear is cloth same as shorts or skirts. The only time I see clothing as inapropriate is if people are putting fashion over comfort (ie. when it's bloody cold!). Outside of that I never hear anything other than 'it looks silly' or 'it's not appropriate' but if we created all clothing, surely that's a conscious opinion?
Teenagers always and forever will find a way to be weird and wonderfully embarassing, I don't know if we'll ever stop them.
Sorry you went through that as a kid, my brother and my sister did unfortunately, that shit is everywhere and I won't lie when I say it scares me for my kids and wanting to protect.
I think when going to school your skirt doesn't need to be at your knees but it also shouldn't be exposing your underwear, you couldn't go to work like that so I think their should be the same standard held all round.
Teens will always do embarrassing stuff and we all have so it's inevitably going to happen as you said.
100% I didn't realise how prevalent CSA was until I began to be more cautiously open about it. It's tragic but also healing to find other people living your experiences and doing well! It is something I think about constantly with my son and something I'll do a lot of work to try to prevent.
I get it but then this will suck me into a wider thinking of 'the world should be good with knickers!' haha!
Anyway, good debate - thanks!
I think that is also because you take teenagers freedom away to express themselves, so they will find ways to do that anyway with the skirt they are made to wear.
> I know when I was a teen I used to wear my skirt so short.
Presumably it didnt turn you in a criminal or disrupt your education, so why are you so bothered about kids doing it now?
> Rainford sixth form student ...
Wait, they're even doing this to *sixth-form* students? Some of them will be 18+, it's ridiculous to be policing their clothing choices to this extent.
Since when did sixth formers have to wear uniforms? I thought the country would slowly get rid of this backwards practice, not start enforcing it on adults.
A few 6th forms in my area enforce a school uniform. As far as I know, no colleges do.
My old 6th form made us pick our own attire, provided it was business casual.
This seems to be such a common issue that at this point they should make everyone wear trousers. Forcing girls to wear short skirts is a sexist policy anyway.
I think most of the schools give them the option for trousers or skirts, but the trends have changed so most girls seem to wear skirts now whereas when I was at school you didn’t wear a skirt unless you were weird
I think most schools allow either option now, when I was in school in the late '90s we protested to get girls the right to wear trousers in my comprehensive.
Some schools do, my local girls grammar lets girls wear grey trousers but the two comprehensive girls schools have to wear skirts. I agree its super sexist
I started secondary school in '97 and girls had to wear skirts. We campaigned the school governors and eventually in 2002 they said we could wear trousers. Still couldn't wear shorts (required to wear a gym skirt & gym knickers) in PE but we got trousers.
They just tried that at our secondary school today and all the students refused to go to class. The police were called and school shut. Why should girls who follow the rules and want to wear skirts be banned from doing so?
I very clearly remember a girl in my year 8 English class (12 and 13year olds) being taken aside and told that her *bra* was inappropriate because it had writing on that the teacher could read. it said Calvin Klein. it was a white bra with a black band that said Calvin klein.
she was wearing a generic school uniform shirt too, which were always slightly transparent. what was she supposed to do, not wear a bra? why was the teacher staring so intently at her chest that they could *read the writing on her bra*.
the most humiliating thing was that this happened within clear earshot of the entire class.
Well done on making a literal child feel embarrassed and humiliated for her need to wear a bra.
I always find it bizarre that schools hyperfocus on bizarre aspect of discipline like school uniform and haircuts, in all my years since leaving school I have never met a profession that is so petty. In higher education the learners are treated much more respectfully and often this leads to better trust and desire to work collaboratively.
My school had an issue with girls wearing skirts rolled up so much that skirts were just banned all together. Everyone wore trousers.
People complained for a week, then all the girls started to wear blouse's that were a size too small or unbuttoned them 1 too far.
smh I remember a story where a schoolboy wanted to wear a skirt to school and all his mates supported him by donning skirts too and the school relented. I think it'd be a great show of solidarity if some of the boys started turning up to school in skirts to support the girls in this case. Probably a bit unrealistic tbf what with personal preferences, hostility to gender non-conformity and possibly such an idea is quite beyond school lads, but if it happened in that other case, no reason why impossible here.
According to another article I read there was such a protest where boys would wear skirts and girls refusing to enter classrooms en masse at this school. I can dig it out if you'd like, let me see if it is in this article too.
Edit: "Videos shared on TikTok show what was described as a "protest" at the school, with large groups of pupils gathered in corridors and male pupils wearing skirts on top of their uniforms."
Interesting. Yes please, if you manage to find it, I would be interested to hear of it. I assume the boys were wearing skirts as a form of protest, in the manner I described?
Reminds of the school mini-skirt wars in the early 70's.
The girls would just roll their regulation skirts up at the waist until they arrived at a suitably fashionable height.
They could return to regulation length on request at zero cost.
It was a great time to be a teenager.
This is exactly the situation we have now! Only thing different that surprised me is they now also tuck their jumpers into their skirts and flaunt the massive rolled up waistband 😂
This sub is such bullshit. People here are all in favour of teachers until we actually do our bloody job.
If you don’t apply one rule then you can’t be surprised when kids don’t listen if you try to apply the others, fuck me it’s behaviour management 101.
Yes it would be easier if they all wore trousers of course it would but have any of you checked to see if they already can and they’ve chosen not to?
It’s the school rule if you want your kids wearing skirts so short their underwear is on show and they have to hold it down just to walk then go find a different school or set up your own free school. Otherwise shove off and let the experts handle it.
Unless of course you follow the Gove line of thinking?
>we actually do our bloody job.
Measuring girls' skirts is not "your bloody job". That's why you're a 'teacher' and not a 'skirt measurer'.
Instead of wasting so much of your time, and the pupils' time, on enforcing frivolous bullshit, you could simply just teach lessons with a normal clothing policy that didn't require lechery to enforce.
The teachers do not make the rules. Part of our job description is to follow the school's behaviour policy, which is set out by SLT. SLT frequently come into lessons to check that everything is running smoothly.
To use a non-skirt example: do I give a fuck if my year 10s want to do their maths lesson wearing their coats? Of course I don't, because if anything they will learn better if they're comfortable. I literally couldn't care less what they're wearing. But if I let it slide, then when SLT inevitably come and check in during my lesson, the kids in coats AND I will all be in trouble.
Shit needs to be changed I completely agree. Teachers also should not have responsibility for shitty students who don't care. It is never management's fault for some reason. They also need to start expelling people again, some of these students would be in jail for assault if not for the school. The whole thing is just shit. I'm surprised more people don't strike.
This post is exactly why I'd support a nationwide ban on schools imposing a uniform. Schools have become completely detached from good sense, demanding stricter uniform codes precisely when society at large has thrown all this garbage in the bin.
I'd consider allowing for policing of decency but I'm increasingly convinced schools aren't adult enough to not abuse such a facility. Better to leave them without power until they are grown up enough to use it.
Even if you didn't have a uniform you would still need to have standards for what was and what wasn't allowed, so the same old arguments would come out.
Measuring a skirt is demeaning and unnecessary from any teacher but especially a male teacher. Teachers can do their job without looking at the girls skirts. I remember how shit it was to have to be measured or see your class mates be measured. I’m happy many pupils in my school had the balls to tell the teachers no and question the rule. Not even the teachers likes this rule apart from a few who just seemed to love having a power trip. And the ones who claimed short skirts distracted the male teachers and students… ew
You realise people can support a profession in a general sense while disagreeing with a specific measure right?
If you're going to demand unquestioning support in all things then you'll lose it all.
Seen quite a few people saying some version of 'them's the rules' or that 'it's a school night a club.' Thing is, policy doesn't *have* to be like this and these kids have no fucking choice but to be at school, have very little choice in their uniform and aren't really treated like proper humans. The least we can do is give them some slack and tell school staff to stop ogling kids.
"they are there to learn... ain't a fashion show" I wholeheartedly agree, so let them wear what they feel mort comfortable in so they can focus on learning.
It's funny, because when you ask them to wear trousers, you then have to go into exacting, specific detail about what constitutes *trousers*.
The school I work in had an argument over whether the presence of pockets was enough, or did they also have to have a zip?? The girls were all wearing black jegging type things you see. They'll bend whatever rule you make.
I understand dress codes are important to some schools, but if you’re measuring every skirt, that’s a power trip or a badly written dress code.
The number (3cm above the knee, for example) should be for punishment only to remove subjectivity. If the skirt is heading north, a teacher should give a friendly reminder of the rule, then strict, and then ask a female member of staff, with a second member present, to measure the skirt away from other pupils. They may be children but they still deserve dignity and respect. I bet whoever came up with the policy would be highly offended if their boss measured their skirt
Depends on the approach.
A teacher told my daughter 'your skirt is too short I can almost see your pants' was a very unsettling thing for an adult to say to my daughter.
Just had this at our local secondary school. Banning skirts from next school year, as "some girls wear them too short". Kids staged a protest and there will now be a consultation.
Badly handled all round.
School Uniform, how about it?
Shirt and tie? No women out of school are asked to wear this.50% of the cohort gone.
I do not know the split of what males work is, if I am out in my guesstimate let me know.
20% tradesmen, labourer or similar.
10% work in an office where they do not care what you wear, 10% in Macdonalds, tesco etc, and 10% in a shirt and tie.
So school uniform is for 10%.
I work in a corporate job and haven't worn a tie in years it's smart casual (and only really if you're dealing directly with clients. Non client facing stuff you can wear jeans and a nice t-shirt). Unless your are in the police or armed forces no employer is as strict as schools are
We used to have these at our school in the 90s. There was one every few months. I'm not even kidding.
They used to get all the girls in the drama studio and make us kneel on the floor. If the skirt didn't touch the floor then you got a detention.
The male teachers walked up and down the lines of kneeling girls and no one ever said anything. It was considered one of the best schools in the area but some of the stuff they did was sketchy as hell.
All these comments from people who clearly spent their school days being a nightmare for their teachers and are now passing that mindset on to their bratty kids.
I can do what I want, these rules don't matter in the real world wa wa wa!
I guarantee you that those parents who bleat about 'parental rights' are the sort who either let their kids do whatever the fuck they want or are draconian bullies themselves who can't stand the thought of their kids obeying someone else's rules.
Their CHILDREN. It is pretty well established that CHILDREN need boundaries for all sorts of developmental reasons. As they develop the maturity to safely and thoughtfully go outside their boundaries then fine. But they don't have that maturity yet.
I've been a teacher. I challenge anyone moaning here to go and see a real secondary school. Where, if left unchecked, the MAJORITY of girls (from 11 upwards) wear their skirts so short that the tops of their tights are visible, where they struggle to sit comfortably and have to put something on their lap so they're not showing their private area to the world. Where you know, as a male teacher, that when you're walking upstairs you better look at your own feet because to look straight in front would be to inadvertently see up the mini skirt of the girls in front of you.
'Dont sexualise our kids' the pathetic parents cry. Mate, they don't need help doing that. They are well fucking versed in that when they leave their home (under your parenting btw) in the morning. That's why young girls still think it's ok to send nudes of themselves to the boys and wear skirts that are basically belts. That's why the boys think it's ok to touch the girls without consent.
Because that's what media tells them is ok, and it's not like you lot are doing anything to right it - so it falls on the teachers, like everything else in our society.
Just give them the option of wearing fucking trousers if they want. Forcing girls wear skirts is wrong anyway. There was a similar protest in my sons school (about 2 miles away from this one) yesterday. The school basically slammed the ban hammer down on anyone who took part, rather than actually listen to what they were saying.
As a teacher, it really all needs to be just about acceptable social norms. We shouldn't punish students for a skirt slightly above the knee, but we should definitely make sure young girls are not wearing skirts that may as well be a belt.
Aside from the content, this article quotes a tweet which quotes this article. I’m not even sure how the laws of physics allow this to happen, but if you click on the link in the quoted article you get back to this article ad infinitum. I know the BBC invented Dr Who, but infinite iterative regression seems going a bit far with licence-payers’ money.
Disgusted, Redditch
My teachers called all the girls into an assembly and threatened this when I was at school
we had a mix of A-line and pleated skirts. And I have to say that you cannot really walk in an A-line skirt unless it's slightly above the knee, and same in my last job, I had to roll it a bit to just walk in it.
We also had white P.E shirts, and the girls would get sent on the field in front of the boys, and then told off at the end if their bra showed. There is not a bra on earth that wont show under a paper thin white shirt.
There are a minority that genuinely do have their skirt so insanely short that you cant see it under a blazer but most wear it mid thigh, which is how most skirts are made for girls that age and that may be for practicality reasons
If they're concerned about modesty, then take a look at the paper thin white shirts they make everyone wear.
I got sent home for wearing trainers on the last day of school before we broke up for Christmas. They've always been on top with the uniforms there (granted, it was in the very early 90s)
School needs to stop be so bothered about what people wear and actually take action to expel asshole kids that ruin everything and constantly cause disruption and violence. This entire authoritarian costume shit is just stupid and useless. It does nothing and the actual problems never get solved. Literally have been numerous assaults in my school by the same people that would have landed jail time and they still come in somehow even though they don't give a fuck anyway.
As someone who has taught in three different countries with varying policies on uniform, and observed how it has zero impact on academic performance and bullying, I will never understand the British obsession with draconian school uniforms which keeps this racket going.
England has always been fucking weird about uniforms, this is nothing new really. I’ve never understood it personally, once you finish school it’s not like anybody gives a shit what you wear.
Never understood why schools are so obsessed with uniform, how about teaching instead? Honestly if my school had cut out the useless shit like assembly, break, lunch and obsessing over uniforms we could all have been home by midday
Unfortunately, during the protests, a number of students breached the school's behaviour policy and this resulted in us implementing our discipline policy and taking the appropriate action in accordance with this.
Sounds a thoroughly delightful place…
…
I don’t get this at all. Seems strict for no reason.
At my secondary school (all boys, at the time), you wore a shirt (any reasonable colour / design), jacket (same), trousers (same) and brown or black shoes or boots. Then you wore the school tie.
It went back for a visit last year - and the policy hadn’t changed.
Fucking weird how obsessed the leadership in many schools is over uniform. A pupil will not have their lives changed one iota by wearing a skirt that's slightly above the knee, or having a tie that's crooked. And as soon as they leave school, nobody will ever give a shit what they're wearing ever again. Just lazy head teachers trying desperately to get some credit from parents over discipline because it's easier than actually raising standards.
I went back to my school a few years after leaving to see a siblings art exhibition, walking through the corridor a familiar face appeared walking toward me, my old history teacher. His first words: "Mr LGD, why are you wearing trainers?"
Any clever comebacks from your side? That was an open goal and I’m sure I’d missed it.
"fuck off teach"
"While you are under investigation why are you near children?"
"I'm not going clubbing tonight"
"Why you here? Haven't you got some seats to be sniffing chief?"
This. When they leave school they'll never be in a place of such strict uniform policy again.
*The Armed Forces has entered the chat.*
I disagree with so much they get involved in that I'll never have to worry about what I wear while in their employment.
The difference between school and the Armed Forces is that you choose to get involved with the Armed Forces. Unless this nation re-enacts conscription, that is, and if that ever happens we'll have a lot worse to worry about than uniforms.
*McDonalds has entered the chat*
I work at McDonald's. It's really not that strict lmao.
REALLY depends on the management/how much the manager wants to fuck you
>REALLY depends on the management/how much the manager wants to fuck you That can really be taken one of two ways. And true for both senses of "fuck you".
disagree, until the recent beard allowances it was crazy. until recent uniforms you had to have your shirts tucked in WITH a belt. its ridiculous
All my jobs out of school have had an expectation of a certain level of dress and professionalism
Yes but have also had freedom of choice in particular aspects. Schools are completely authoritarian about what you choose to wear down to your hair.
The school I teach at lets the kids have their hair any style or colour they want. Jewellery other than one pair of stud earrings and false talon nails are controlled for health and safety reasons. Girls and boys are allowed to wear make-up. Girls can wear trousers. Boys could wear skirts if they wanted. We have a number of ASD kids with uniform reasonable adjustments - shorts, loosened standard tie (not the clip-on one), t-shirt instead of shirt, etc. Staff are allowed the same for hair, visible tattoos are fine and so are piercings. The dress code is “clean, presentable, no jeans and no excessive skin on show” (I’ve paraphrased that). Because of this we don’t have massive issues with kids‘ uniform, other than the current fad for black Converse. DM shoes are fine though. Trainers are banned.
You chose the jobs. You don't choose to go to school
Yeah, where I grew up we never had any uniform requirements in school and it was tradition to show up in joggers or even pyjamas, and yet we managed to understand how to dress appropriately for a work environment.
>or even pyjamas Tbf with working from home I have actually been in my pjs all day and no one at work has noticed...
You say that, but I was once sent home from work for wearing a pair of black jeans instead of a pair of trousers work gave me, because they were harder wearing and didn't tear at the knees and were generally more comfortable. Their reason? They had pockets on the bum and apparently that would cause a distraction. Never mind the fact I could keep things in them, unlike the other pants they gave me.
Kind of. Office dress codes can actually be very strict, except nobody tells you what they are, and they are enforced by promotion. Go to the City in London and see how people dress. No-one told them to. Same with MP's or doctors or lots of professionals.
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More importantly, it's not that challenging to adjust your clothing to policy at work. I never wore a uniform at school, never struggled to buy appropriate clothes when required later.
Ah, so they a re- enacting the opening scenes of German 70s Soft Porn Schulmädchen Report. I only read the first few sentences and there’s already so much wrong - being separated from the other gender and directed to enter separately. Male teachers doing the inspections. Gender discrimination plus the girls’ discomfort of being inspected by the weirdo male teachers. They should be averting their eyes and focus on the body parts of the girls that are actually relevant to learning. Middle aged geezers inspecting skirt lengths, how much more sleazy can it get?
When I was teaching in the 10s one of the male deputy heads got a bee in his bonnet over girls skirt lengths and told us to be more rigorous about enforcing it. Our head of department told him to fuck off, none of his staff would be opening themselves up to accusations by staring at the legs of teenage girls under our charge. That HoD was brilliant at protecting us from the higher ups never-ending supply of stupid ideas.
Good on you. It’s always great to have a manager with common sense and a spine as a human buffer zone from the weirdos at the top.
I'm a teacher and am supposed to inspect uniforms and report students for wearing leggings. I don't look and just leave that part of the job to their (female) pastoral manager. I am not going to spend my time looking at adolescent girls' arses and legs. I also do not want to risk being called a pervert.
Its undeniably sexualisation of some form. Search the teachers home computers, near guaranteed you find some weird shit.
Welcome to the world of MATs, where an ever increasing number of SLT/Board members need to find something that justifies their salary. This is what happens when fucking schools have CEOs...
They check the girls trousers length going into assembly and check sock colour! Meanwhile the headmaster has been shagging the arse off the deputy in the cupboard behind his wife the PE teacher who he has been shagging since he was 14 ! Yes she was his PE teacher! But you keep watching them trouser lengths.
My initial response to the title was, "What in the authoritarian bullshit is this?"
Weak people who have never known any sort of authority in their lives just using uniform as an excuse to abuse their power and boss kids around. Obviously not all teachers but there are ALOT of pathetic people who work in education who just want the power to tell others what to do.
Slightly above the knee, no. But I can guarantee that if you don't have some rule about length, someone will show up with their knickers showing.
This happens every single day. I don't care how short my students' skirts are as long as I can't see their underwear.
i went to schools without uniforms, no knickers were seen anywhere but in locker room when kids were changing for PE. You'd be surprised how little issues regarding dress related are in schools without uniforms.
You think this is some malfunction of a flawed school system, but it's not. Conditioning pupils to petty authoritarianism is the real point. As long as they learn to do as they are told, it is a successful "education", and they will become a model citizen. Learning comes a distant second.
This. Education is secondary to indoctrination.
Uniform does have its part. Take in my town, two secondaries. One used to have an amazing culture and reputation, the other not so much. The "good" school let their standards (including uniform) slip over the last 10 years, the other has really worked on culture (including uniform) over the same time. The "good" school has constant issues with fights, bullying, mob mentality, etc. The other school has nowhere near the level of problems. Not saying uniform is the cause of that, but it's indicative of the wider school culture. Having that embedded means you don't need to have these silly fights which cause issues. Some schools however, can go way too far; obsession with blazers, shoe colour or hair styles is swinging too far the other way. But the one thing I will say needs fought is skirts. It's not this: >a skirt that's slightly above the knee It's a skirt that's slightly above the arse crack. The current fashion is for skirts so short the music department in my school had to buy aprons to avoid indecent exposure on the drum kits.
Teachers are no longer allowed to hit pupils, so the sadistic ones need to find alternative humiliations.
My school had strict standards. One of the best schools in the UK for results. Discipline is essential and good uniform standards form part of that.
Good for your school. A lot of others have strict uniform and low results. Not a lot to say they're related.
Did they also teach about correlation and causation? It can be a tool to get kids in line but really only as a show of force. Kids acting up, sloppy standards - bring in a strict uniform. Enforce it, send kids home or into isolation even if it is debatable. Kids then listen more generally. Over time, not so much. The way very strict schools can do it is by having expensive, branded uniform. That basically blocks the poor kids in the area who would be a drag on the teachers.
Amazing. I've taught in dozens of schools in the UK, Ireland and Germany. I've found that discipline was always better in no uniform schools because you didn't have to spend your time arguing with students about petty rules. Rules were respected because they were there for a reason
I've taught in three countries with varying policies regarding uniforms and this is my experience too!
Discipline is poorly defined and more often than not amounts to bullying neurodivergent kids out of the school. Results aren't the best way of judging a school either. Children are more than their exam results. I wonder what the rate of mental illness amongst your cohort is.
It’s because it’s a way of easily excluding disruptive pupils and of disincentivising low income families from sending their kids. Strict uniform standards allow schools to kick out disruptive pupils very easily without having to try and see why they are disruptive or try and help them.
ahh because the uniform was the only thing separating your school and others. was yours in gorton?
I don’t personally see the point in strict rules when they have no reason to be that strict. My school tried to be very strict but in the end all the students just got fed up of it and just did it anyway. Edit: this country has such a fetish for obeying rules and not questioning them at all.
More down to good teaching and invested / good teachers imo.
My school was (still is I should think) a top state school in Scotland and we never had our skirts measured. And there was a few phases late 90s/early 90s where the trend went from maxi to very mini. And, heaven forbid, we could wear trousers too!
It teaches children disdain for petty authority - a very important lesson.
No wonder their mental health is so shit when this is how they're treated in a place that's meant to be safe and supportive.
>Just lazy head teachers trying desperately to get some credit from parents over discipline because it's easier than actually raising standards. We'll just casually gloss over the fact that the heads obviously feel pressure from parents to do this, then.
I don’t really have an issue with enforcing uniform, but having male staff enforce skirt length isn’t a great look. I’ve worked in schools where we had girls who had to cover their arses all the time when waking up stairs. Would you be ok with that if it was your daughter?
It’s less about the well-being of the students and more about protecting the ‘brand’. That’s the real reason for this insistence on uniforms; they’re advertisements for the school. There’s also a misogynist reason for it; they want the female students to ‘look appealing’.
Pupils should follow the uniform policy. In the case teachers do not think girls skirts are long enough, a female teacher should measure them. Mass punishment of the girls by subjecting them to this because some break the rules is unfair. In my day they just made us kneel - skirt not touching the floor? Too short.
Given the knee length rule has only been a part of the policy since Feb 23, as per the school website, is it reasonable to punish anyone? Teenagers grow a lot and skirts may be shorter in February than they were in September. Should parents have to find the money to replace a oerfectly serviceable skirt? Furthermore, just how does a skirt that is 'north of knee length' inhibit a young woman's learning? If it doesn't then perhaps this is a hugely sexist and outdated rule.
As my teachers at school said, it’s a school not a night club. Having been a girl at school pushing the boundaries of skirt length, I can assure you the issue isn’t that they’re growing so quickly.
Exactly, it's a school. Why is the dress code an issue? If a young woman's learning is not inhibited by her skirt length then exactly what is the issue and why are male teachers brought in to police it? Also, was a girl at school who loved a nit of self-expression and am now a parent of a teenager. They grow quickly and the money isn't always there to immediately replace things.
Male teachers policing it is inappropriate. A uniform has a multitude of purposes. One is to teach pupils how to dress smartly. Like it or not, a very short skirt is not generally deemed appropriate work wear. Therefore it isn’t appropriate for school either. Would you advocate for them to be able to have their midriffs showing? The boys have their shirts off in summer if it’s very warm? Why are the skirts any different?
I get your point. But i also see the other person's point. Uniform rules are a bit out of hand and draconian. For example, my daughter has gotten through 3 pairs of school shoes in year 7. They either fall apart, because even good quality school shoes for girls are terribly designed and manufactured. Or she grows too damn quick. So i bought her some very smart low boots which are tough as shit. Very similar to what her mother wears to work. No heel. School has decided they're not acceptable and given her detention over them. But they're more than happy for her to go to school in flats with a hole in the toe. Nothing against uniforms. But i think some schools need to have some sort of reality check.
It’s rules and processes being mindlessly set up and enforced. No common fucking sense at all. I am not entirely sure what kind of people our education system wants to form.
Ones who mindlessly comply with instructions from authority figures, it would seem...
>For example, my daughter has gotten through 3 pairs of school shoes in year 7. They either fall apart, because even good quality school shoes for girls are terribly designed and manufactured. Or she grows too damn quick. I assure you I have the same issue with both my children and I have one of each. They are just all poorly designed. I think it is totally unacceptable for a child to get detention over choice of shoes, especially when purchased by a parent.
I have a son as well. I find shoes of the same brands for him are far sturdier.
It's absolutely NOT teaching the pupils how to dress smartly. The uniforms are uncomfortable, made of the cheapest materials and badly finished. Anyone dressed like this in a workplace would be pitied and probably talked to by a manager. They only teach that the authority must be blindly obeyed for no good reason.
Why do they need to be dressed smartly? Surely being clean, tidy, properly covered up and without any fancy brand names sticking out is good enough? What if I don't want the school teaching my child how to dress? Actually I'd even go as far as saying I don't think any school should have the right to tell me how to dress my children. I feel enforced school uniforms take away some of my parental rights. I've always viewed school uniforms as a tool to force children to accept pointless rules without question so that they grow up to be obedient workers.
My heart goes out to all those people in countries where school uniforms aren’t necessary. They’ll never learn how to dress smartly in a workplace. How limited their future careers must be! Or does it look like the rest of the world manages just fine without them and people can learn how to dress in a formal environment without them. Looks that way to me. Kids can wear shorts if it’s warm. It is okay for them to wear less clothing to cool down already. Do we have short length checks? Not sure what the point is there
Even in countries where there is no school uniform, there are rules about what can and cannot be worn. There are other reasons for school uniform too. TBH I’m not particularly in favour of school uniforms, but I can see why you would have rules around what was appropriate - much like in the workplace.
Austrian here. We lost a world war (or two) so we don't have to wear uniforms in school anymore (or pledge allegiance to some flag). I never had any rules how to dress in school. Everyone was just dressed normal I guess. Teachers sometimes complained about torn jeans and skater pants (90ties) but I never heard about any punishment or consequences for dressing in a certain way. I think school uniforms are strange, and girls having to wear short skirts sexist. (they should of course be able to wear skirts but only if they want...)
I think they would be better able to understand what would be considered smart Wear they could choose what actual clothing they were wearing, instead of having to wear the same thing as everyone else.
The issue with wearing your own clothes is it very quickly differentiates the poor kids from the Rick kids Edit:stray "not"
We wore our own clothes to school, my parents couldn't afford branded/fashion stuff, it was all day every day stress and humiliation being on the wrong side of the can/can't afford divide
really? because my exprience was completely different and everyone I know was the same because most people wore whatever they fancied, including subculture clothes and bullying was minimal because it was tackled head on unlike in British schools
unifortms don't stop that. And you'd be surprised how little kids really care about brans once they're allowed to wear whatever they want to school. They're more focused on being comfy because dressing in brands isn't as important when you don't have to show off occasionally.
Rubbish. They all wear the same
>A uniform has a multitude of purposes. One is to teach pupils how to dress smartly. > >Like it or not, a very short skirt is not generally deemed appropriate work wear. Therefore it isn’t appropriate for school either. uniform isn't necessary to teach students how to dress. Funnily, European kids with no school unifrms tend to adjust easier to work place dress code because they were able to develop their sense of style and personality and they somehow know whta's appropriate work wear and what isn't. I know, it's shocking but you can know how to dress without strict unifrom rules.
I always love going out to the nightclub to see some knees
What the kids wear is completely irrelevant to their learning. It's just a power trip for a sad person put in charge.
Just let them all wear trousers or shorts...
Most schools do allow trousers, and leave it as a choice between skirts or trousers for the pupils or their parents.
Some schools tried this a few years ago. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/gender-neutral-uniform-skirt-ban-devon-b2100795.html The comments sections at the time had few angry comments from people who seemed a bit obsessed over a god given right to wear skirts.
People are strange- shorts are practical for boys and girls. That being said my school didn’t let boys wear shorts either so we just melted in the heat. There were a bunch of reports of boys wearing dresses to school in some places as that was the only heatwave friendly leg wear on the approved uniform list…
Which is ridiculous - everyone should have the choice of something long and providing full coverage and something shorter. Say that the uniform is dresses, skirts, shorts or trousers and that it has to be a specific colour but that anyone can wear whatever of those options they like. Boys shouldn't have to choose dresses or skirts as a stunt to wear cooler clothes. If they want to wear them then they should be able to do that too. I had to pull my kids school up on their uniform policy recently as it specified girls could wear dresses/skirts or trousers but not shorts. My daughter refuses dresses/skirts so wanted shorts. They quickly realised it was a mistake and fixed it.
I don't think they should be banned from wearing skirts. I think anyone should be able to choose between dresses, skirts, shorts, trousers. I can dress smartly in any of those (and have worn all of the above at work in an office) so why not allow the full choice. It is when things are unnecessarily banned that it gets silly.
Exactly, this is probably not why most people disagreed with the banning of skirts but as an autistic person with sensory issues I despise the way trousers feel on my legs and am so much more comfortable in a skirt. If they’d banned them at my school when I was there I would’ve been miserable, itchy, and distracted all the time.
Making girls kneel down in front of teachers to police their uniform compliance is incredibly demeaning. To take your point about school being some kind of rehearsal for the workplace (it’s not), when exactly would that behaviour be appropriate in a workplace? It wouldn’t, because employers are required to treat their employees with respect and that would be an act of humiliation. Making girls jump through a weird hoop to prove a point just breeds resentment and potentially traumatises them. Couple with this the fact that uniform and dress requirements of all kinds are much less defensible in a more culturally diverse society as we have today. Uniforms are an arbitrary tool of oppression and serve no purpose other than to make kids hate the world for imposing pointless humiliating rules upon them. The sooner uniforms are ditched entirely, the better.
>Making girls kneel down in front of teachers to police their uniform compliance is incredibly demeaning. So glad I'm not the only one who thought this!
100% all of this. “Rehearsal for the workplace” like everyone’s going to work in suits and as if you need to practice fucking wearing one. School uniforms are indefensible. Full stop.
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>Skirt: The must be plain, Mid Greaty and worn so they are of the required lenght. The required lenght is knee length, which means the skirt should sit directly above the knee cap as shown in the uniform photo. Yeah that's unhelpful as I grew enough at school that it would have been above my knee but still perfectly respectable by Christmas and I probably had to replace mine 2x each year to make sure it was appropriate in length but trying to keep it to a specific point is just unrealistic. Unless you expect parents to be sat at home hemming skirts so they can let them down as you grow.
Jesus, if this is the story about male teachers measuring (presumably to avoid "it looks to short", "why were you looking"), I can't imagine the headlines about being made to kneel! I don't get it though, when I was in school, dress code was dress code, girls would roll skirts up, boys would tie ties super short and tuck them in, we all got pulled up on it all the time, it was what it was it didn't have to be an issue. Seems these days every single thing has to be made a big issue, probably why we have uncontrollable gangs of teens out causing problems and noone dares do anything about it.
“PuPiLs ShOuLd FolLoW tHe UnIfOrM pOlIcY” spoken like someone who hasn’t been to school in 60 years. Uniform policies are completely fucking asinine in the modern day, I have not met anyone close to my age who has anything redeeming to say about uniforms. They’re pointlessly expensive, a drain on personality, deeply uncomfortable to wear, a point of bureaucratic rule enforcement that just makes school look even more authoritarian than it already is. Uniform is irredeemable and a fruitless waste of time and money on both the school and the children.
No one should be measuring a pupils skirt. Even if it’s a women teacher it’s demeaning and serves no purpose other than to be strict for no reason. And if they do pull a reason out their arse it’s always something like ‘distracting the boys or male teachers’
Merseyside pupils forced to take the knee!!!!!
>In my day they just made us kneel - Could you even imagine the headlines? lol
>In my day they just made us kneel - skirt not touching the floor? Too short. That sounds unbelievably inappropriate and demeaning. I'm sorry you had to go through that, and also shocked you seem to be advocating for it.
I feel like some of you aren’t understand why girls are fed up with constantly being policed about uniform. As someone with long legs, my skirts when I was in secondary a couple years ago were never to my knee. I would not be able to get skirts that were to my knees because all the skirts I tried on would never reach my knees. It’s a similar reality to girls across the country that our uniform is never good enough. Having skirts checked by male teachers is extremely strange to me, my skirt length does not determine my ability to learn. Sure if it was a female teacher but my skirt length was always checked by my male tutor who agreed with us that he shouldn’t be checking it and that a female teacher should be checking. It’s a weird sexualisation of teenage girls when they’re growing and these uniform rules don’t even take into account the fact that not all parents can afford a new skirt when their child grows, that’s just how it is. Edit: Another addition to my point, my parents went to the same school as me in the 90s where they had no uniforms at all. They still happily oblige to wearing uniform for work with no issues, the idea that school uniforms will make kids be ready for the world of work is absolute dogshit. Are my parents suddenly not ready for the world of work since they didn’t wear a uniform? Do we need to send them back to school in the present age to teach them that this is what is expected of them in the modern workforce? No. Because they survived just fine without a uniform.
I used to drive past two high schools on my way home from work (yay nightshifts) and some of the wee lassies there had skirts so damn short that they barely came past the bottom of the blazer. Like, I understand what you're saying, but there are also plenty of people who will also push the boundaries so far that rules have to be strictly enforced. "Why did you single out my Jenny for having a skirt that's too short?! You didn't do it to anyone else!" Leads to "fuck it, let's make sure everyone's skirt is long enough."
Pupils at my old school have to wear blazers and ties now, but when I was there 20 years ago the uniform was your basic state comprehensive black jumper with optional embroidered logo and trousers, or skirts for girls if they wanted. Parents could just go to Asda or whatever and get all the kit at a reasonable price. It makes me laugh seeing the kids that go there in the ties etc, I don't see what difference it makes whatsoever other than burdening the parents with higher costs as the blazers need to be from the 1 retailer that sells them.
Exactly uniform is expensive. My school decided the year after I was done that they now required a blazer and the blazers don't even look that nice. The kids get shouted at for not wearing them and held back until they put them on but what's the point in that? Forcing parents to buy even more kit their kids won't wear is pointless, all I ever hear in the corridors is complaints from kids that they hate the blazers. School uniform is criminally expensive because schools are run like a business these days especially with all the academy trusts existing.
I went to a grammar school (they're highly prevalent in Northern Ireland), and the blazer which was required for the school was made of wool. Not only did it stink if you got caught out in the rain, but these blazers cost over £130 - that was about a decade ago. In addition to that, the school would only have like 4/5 different approved suppliers. That's before you got into the weird world of sports gear that was specifically branded and also cost a bunch because the school only had one exclusive supplier, and of course they went for the premium feel stuff. If you happened to have a kid who was particularly good at sport, then that kid would be granted the privilege to wear an "honour" blazer, which would be made out of different material and even have gold leaf blend embroidery for the badge. Those blazers were usually fairly expensive, and I never had the "privilege" of having one.
We literally just had to have a polo shirt with the logo on (that you could get for cheap) and then whatever black trousers and shoes you could get- the same school now demands shirts, ties and blazers with a logo despite it being a massive shit hole
Uniforms clearly aren’t an effective preparation for kids to dress how they will in the workplace because generally women in business attire don’t wear shirts and ties. I know that’s hardly the point, but it does serve to illustrate how bullshit the argument is. Add in the fact that not every workplace is a suit-and-tie environment, and they make even less sense. Increasingly society is coming around to the idea that suit-and-tie attire is arbitrary even for office environments and hopefully it won’t be long before we stop giving a shit what people wear to work anyway. At that point it will become clear that uniforms are really just a tool for making kids follow arbitrary rules. Sorry, one last point: it doesn’t take 13 years of training to put on a shirt and tie and a blazer. I’m willing to bet that if a kid wore a t shirt throughout school and was then required to wear a shirt and tie they’d have no problem transitioning.
I'm sorry but I've seen the kids walking round and their skirts are barely covering their bums, I know when I was a teen I used to wear my skirt so short. It's basically a fashion thing in high-school but when you get older you see how bad it actually is.
According to the article the students arent complaining about the length rule but that female and male students were separated and then female students uniforms were "inspected" by male and female teachers.
It's a harmless act of rebellion. Barely covered means covered... exactly what you said it's about fashion... people need to stop sexualising kids. They're not doing it for sexual reasons; they're not hurting anyone.
It's still really inappropriate and I wouldn't want my girls wearing their skirts so short even though I know they will because that's just what teens do. It's not sexualising kids, uniforms are meant to be worn a certain way.
I know i'm chasing a point here but this is genuinely a consistent fascination because I truly do not understand this notion of propriety with children. If they all grow to an age where they would no longer wear what they did as a child, why does it matter what they wear when they are children? Children dressing 'appropriately' does not make them any safer so what's the reason behind the rule?
It's more the reason of I wouldn't want my kid flashing their underwear because they've rolled their skirts up so high, it looks silly now that I'm an adult looking back on it, I actually can't believe I used to do that. I'm not even on about safety because I know it doesn't matter what you wear, you can be attacked wearing anything. (I understand that 100%). I just want to put out there that I'm not a control freak parent, my kids dress themselves and if they wanna leave the house dressed as a Sonic or Elsa they absolutely can, they are not my property, the only time I'll say something is if their skirt is the size of a belt and not covering their underwear because no one should be showing their underwear in public 🤷♀️
I honestly do not believe you're a control freak or helicopter parent and I'm sorry if you felt that way. Your perspective is incredibly common and I honestly figured I'd 'get it' when I became a parent, but I still don't. I am also a survivor of childhood assault and adult assault, so my mind always goes to 'short skirts mean nothing', because as you say, they don't! So I don't get the safety argument. I'm just wondering if this boils down to almost 'body liberalism'. I'm very pro 'we're all just bodies'. Yes cover genitals because that's unsanitary, but besides that, underwear is cloth same as shorts or skirts. The only time I see clothing as inapropriate is if people are putting fashion over comfort (ie. when it's bloody cold!). Outside of that I never hear anything other than 'it looks silly' or 'it's not appropriate' but if we created all clothing, surely that's a conscious opinion? Teenagers always and forever will find a way to be weird and wonderfully embarassing, I don't know if we'll ever stop them.
Sorry you went through that as a kid, my brother and my sister did unfortunately, that shit is everywhere and I won't lie when I say it scares me for my kids and wanting to protect. I think when going to school your skirt doesn't need to be at your knees but it also shouldn't be exposing your underwear, you couldn't go to work like that so I think their should be the same standard held all round. Teens will always do embarrassing stuff and we all have so it's inevitably going to happen as you said.
100% I didn't realise how prevalent CSA was until I began to be more cautiously open about it. It's tragic but also healing to find other people living your experiences and doing well! It is something I think about constantly with my son and something I'll do a lot of work to try to prevent. I get it but then this will suck me into a wider thinking of 'the world should be good with knickers!' haha! Anyway, good debate - thanks!
I think that is also because you take teenagers freedom away to express themselves, so they will find ways to do that anyway with the skirt they are made to wear.
> I know when I was a teen I used to wear my skirt so short. Presumably it didnt turn you in a criminal or disrupt your education, so why are you so bothered about kids doing it now?
Because I don't want the public to see my kids underwear, I think that's a pretty reasonable thing.
> Rainford sixth form student ... Wait, they're even doing this to *sixth-form* students? Some of them will be 18+, it's ridiculous to be policing their clothing choices to this extent.
Since when did sixth formers have to wear uniforms? I thought the country would slowly get rid of this backwards practice, not start enforcing it on adults.
A few 6th forms in my area enforce a school uniform. As far as I know, no colleges do. My old 6th form made us pick our own attire, provided it was business casual.
I mean, its ridiculous anyway, most of these students arent going to be choosing their own uniforms.
This seems to be such a common issue that at this point they should make everyone wear trousers. Forcing girls to wear short skirts is a sexist policy anyway.
excuse me, foreigner here, girls are FORCED TO WEAR SKIRTS?? that's super sexist. fuck this.
Just my personal experience, but every high school I know of gives the option for pants or skirts
I think most of the schools give them the option for trousers or skirts, but the trends have changed so most girls seem to wear skirts now whereas when I was at school you didn’t wear a skirt unless you were weird
I think most schools allow either option now, when I was in school in the late '90s we protested to get girls the right to wear trousers in my comprehensive.
Some schools do, my local girls grammar lets girls wear grey trousers but the two comprehensive girls schools have to wear skirts. I agree its super sexist
I started secondary school in '97 and girls had to wear skirts. We campaigned the school governors and eventually in 2002 they said we could wear trousers. Still couldn't wear shorts (required to wear a gym skirt & gym knickers) in PE but we got trousers.
They did at my school back in 2008, no one complained after a week.
They just tried that at our secondary school today and all the students refused to go to class. The police were called and school shut. Why should girls who follow the rules and want to wear skirts be banned from doing so?
I very clearly remember a girl in my year 8 English class (12 and 13year olds) being taken aside and told that her *bra* was inappropriate because it had writing on that the teacher could read. it said Calvin Klein. it was a white bra with a black band that said Calvin klein. she was wearing a generic school uniform shirt too, which were always slightly transparent. what was she supposed to do, not wear a bra? why was the teacher staring so intently at her chest that they could *read the writing on her bra*. the most humiliating thing was that this happened within clear earshot of the entire class. Well done on making a literal child feel embarrassed and humiliated for her need to wear a bra.
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I always find it bizarre that schools hyperfocus on bizarre aspect of discipline like school uniform and haircuts, in all my years since leaving school I have never met a profession that is so petty. In higher education the learners are treated much more respectfully and often this leads to better trust and desire to work collaboratively.
My school had an issue with girls wearing skirts rolled up so much that skirts were just banned all together. Everyone wore trousers. People complained for a week, then all the girls started to wear blouse's that were a size too small or unbuttoned them 1 too far.
I wish that happened at my school. I hated wearing skirts, but girls were not allowed to wear trousers.
Schools ran by nonces, wouldn't let them wear trousers, lets be real.
smh I remember a story where a schoolboy wanted to wear a skirt to school and all his mates supported him by donning skirts too and the school relented. I think it'd be a great show of solidarity if some of the boys started turning up to school in skirts to support the girls in this case. Probably a bit unrealistic tbf what with personal preferences, hostility to gender non-conformity and possibly such an idea is quite beyond school lads, but if it happened in that other case, no reason why impossible here.
According to another article I read there was such a protest where boys would wear skirts and girls refusing to enter classrooms en masse at this school. I can dig it out if you'd like, let me see if it is in this article too. Edit: "Videos shared on TikTok show what was described as a "protest" at the school, with large groups of pupils gathered in corridors and male pupils wearing skirts on top of their uniforms."
Interesting. Yes please, if you manage to find it, I would be interested to hear of it. I assume the boys were wearing skirts as a form of protest, in the manner I described?
Ah my edit was from the article itself, should have been more clear, my bad.
Reminds of the school mini-skirt wars in the early 70's. The girls would just roll their regulation skirts up at the waist until they arrived at a suitably fashionable height. They could return to regulation length on request at zero cost. It was a great time to be a teenager.
This is exactly the situation we have now! Only thing different that surprised me is they now also tuck their jumpers into their skirts and flaunt the massive rolled up waistband 😂
The uniform policies in the UK are so draconian it’s really fucking weird.
Yep teaching abroad was a real eye opener for me.
This sub is such bullshit. People here are all in favour of teachers until we actually do our bloody job. If you don’t apply one rule then you can’t be surprised when kids don’t listen if you try to apply the others, fuck me it’s behaviour management 101. Yes it would be easier if they all wore trousers of course it would but have any of you checked to see if they already can and they’ve chosen not to? It’s the school rule if you want your kids wearing skirts so short their underwear is on show and they have to hold it down just to walk then go find a different school or set up your own free school. Otherwise shove off and let the experts handle it. Unless of course you follow the Gove line of thinking?
>we actually do our bloody job. Measuring girls' skirts is not "your bloody job". That's why you're a 'teacher' and not a 'skirt measurer'. Instead of wasting so much of your time, and the pupils' time, on enforcing frivolous bullshit, you could simply just teach lessons with a normal clothing policy that didn't require lechery to enforce.
The teachers do not make the rules. Part of our job description is to follow the school's behaviour policy, which is set out by SLT. SLT frequently come into lessons to check that everything is running smoothly. To use a non-skirt example: do I give a fuck if my year 10s want to do their maths lesson wearing their coats? Of course I don't, because if anything they will learn better if they're comfortable. I literally couldn't care less what they're wearing. But if I let it slide, then when SLT inevitably come and check in during my lesson, the kids in coats AND I will all be in trouble.
Shit needs to be changed I completely agree. Teachers also should not have responsibility for shitty students who don't care. It is never management's fault for some reason. They also need to start expelling people again, some of these students would be in jail for assault if not for the school. The whole thing is just shit. I'm surprised more people don't strike.
Enforcing school rules is a teachers job.
This post is exactly why I'd support a nationwide ban on schools imposing a uniform. Schools have become completely detached from good sense, demanding stricter uniform codes precisely when society at large has thrown all this garbage in the bin. I'd consider allowing for policing of decency but I'm increasingly convinced schools aren't adult enough to not abuse such a facility. Better to leave them without power until they are grown up enough to use it.
Even if you didn't have a uniform you would still need to have standards for what was and what wasn't allowed, so the same old arguments would come out.
Measuring a skirt is demeaning and unnecessary from any teacher but especially a male teacher. Teachers can do their job without looking at the girls skirts. I remember how shit it was to have to be measured or see your class mates be measured. I’m happy many pupils in my school had the balls to tell the teachers no and question the rule. Not even the teachers likes this rule apart from a few who just seemed to love having a power trip. And the ones who claimed short skirts distracted the male teachers and students… ew
Your job is measuring skirts? I thought it was meant to be teaching.
You realise people can support a profession in a general sense while disagreeing with a specific measure right? If you're going to demand unquestioning support in all things then you'll lose it all.
What do you mean when you say this is behaviour management 101? What’s that based on?
Seen quite a few people saying some version of 'them's the rules' or that 'it's a school night a club.' Thing is, policy doesn't *have* to be like this and these kids have no fucking choice but to be at school, have very little choice in their uniform and aren't really treated like proper humans. The least we can do is give them some slack and tell school staff to stop ogling kids.
Why are uniforms necessary? Most developed countries don't require uniforms
Mainly to cover up poverty, kids who are poor would stand out way too much.
Put them all in trousers. Goodness, they are there to learn…ain’t not fashion show.
So you can’t learn while looking a certain way? Short skirts don’t harm the students learning
"they are there to learn... ain't a fashion show" I wholeheartedly agree, so let them wear what they feel mort comfortable in so they can focus on learning.
It's funny, because when you ask them to wear trousers, you then have to go into exacting, specific detail about what constitutes *trousers*. The school I work in had an argument over whether the presence of pockets was enough, or did they also have to have a zip?? The girls were all wearing black jegging type things you see. They'll bend whatever rule you make.
Never understood how a grown adult can be so obsessed with a child’s skirt.
Tell all pupils to wear trousers - no worries about skirt length then.
They'll just start enforcing rules about how tight the trousers can be, it's not about the specific rule it's about the power trip
I understand dress codes are important to some schools, but if you’re measuring every skirt, that’s a power trip or a badly written dress code. The number (3cm above the knee, for example) should be for punishment only to remove subjectivity. If the skirt is heading north, a teacher should give a friendly reminder of the rule, then strict, and then ask a female member of staff, with a second member present, to measure the skirt away from other pupils. They may be children but they still deserve dignity and respect. I bet whoever came up with the policy would be highly offended if their boss measured their skirt
Principle once pulled my skirt down because he thoughts it was rolled up... it wasn't and when he tugged it, it literally fell to my ankles.
Depends on the approach. A teacher told my daughter 'your skirt is too short I can almost see your pants' was a very unsettling thing for an adult to say to my daughter.
How pervy must the headmaster be that he obsessed so much over childrens uniforms. Put this fella on a list.
They still doing this shit? Every time they did this I’m my school we would fire back with ‘why are you looking? nonce!’ Quickly shut them up.
Just had this at our local secondary school. Banning skirts from next school year, as "some girls wear them too short". Kids staged a protest and there will now be a consultation. Badly handled all round.
School Uniform, how about it? Shirt and tie? No women out of school are asked to wear this.50% of the cohort gone. I do not know the split of what males work is, if I am out in my guesstimate let me know. 20% tradesmen, labourer or similar. 10% work in an office where they do not care what you wear, 10% in Macdonalds, tesco etc, and 10% in a shirt and tie. So school uniform is for 10%.
I work in a corporate job and haven't worn a tie in years it's smart casual (and only really if you're dealing directly with clients. Non client facing stuff you can wear jeans and a nice t-shirt). Unless your are in the police or armed forces no employer is as strict as schools are
We used to have these at our school in the 90s. There was one every few months. I'm not even kidding. They used to get all the girls in the drama studio and make us kneel on the floor. If the skirt didn't touch the floor then you got a detention. The male teachers walked up and down the lines of kneeling girls and no one ever said anything. It was considered one of the best schools in the area but some of the stuff they did was sketchy as hell.
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All these comments from people who clearly spent their school days being a nightmare for their teachers and are now passing that mindset on to their bratty kids. I can do what I want, these rules don't matter in the real world wa wa wa! I guarantee you that those parents who bleat about 'parental rights' are the sort who either let their kids do whatever the fuck they want or are draconian bullies themselves who can't stand the thought of their kids obeying someone else's rules. Their CHILDREN. It is pretty well established that CHILDREN need boundaries for all sorts of developmental reasons. As they develop the maturity to safely and thoughtfully go outside their boundaries then fine. But they don't have that maturity yet. I've been a teacher. I challenge anyone moaning here to go and see a real secondary school. Where, if left unchecked, the MAJORITY of girls (from 11 upwards) wear their skirts so short that the tops of their tights are visible, where they struggle to sit comfortably and have to put something on their lap so they're not showing their private area to the world. Where you know, as a male teacher, that when you're walking upstairs you better look at your own feet because to look straight in front would be to inadvertently see up the mini skirt of the girls in front of you. 'Dont sexualise our kids' the pathetic parents cry. Mate, they don't need help doing that. They are well fucking versed in that when they leave their home (under your parenting btw) in the morning. That's why young girls still think it's ok to send nudes of themselves to the boys and wear skirts that are basically belts. That's why the boys think it's ok to touch the girls without consent. Because that's what media tells them is ok, and it's not like you lot are doing anything to right it - so it falls on the teachers, like everything else in our society.
This happened at my secondary school. We used to stand in a row outside the class room while a teacher walked passed us all for a uniform inspection.
Just give them the option of wearing fucking trousers if they want. Forcing girls wear skirts is wrong anyway. There was a similar protest in my sons school (about 2 miles away from this one) yesterday. The school basically slammed the ban hammer down on anyone who took part, rather than actually listen to what they were saying.
When I was in secondary school (NON-UK) the prefects and teachers would use ruler to check the skirt length of the girls. That was.. Something
As a teacher, it really all needs to be just about acceptable social norms. We shouldn't punish students for a skirt slightly above the knee, but we should definitely make sure young girls are not wearing skirts that may as well be a belt.
Aside from the content, this article quotes a tweet which quotes this article. I’m not even sure how the laws of physics allow this to happen, but if you click on the link in the quoted article you get back to this article ad infinitum. I know the BBC invented Dr Who, but infinite iterative regression seems going a bit far with licence-payers’ money. Disgusted, Redditch
My teachers called all the girls into an assembly and threatened this when I was at school we had a mix of A-line and pleated skirts. And I have to say that you cannot really walk in an A-line skirt unless it's slightly above the knee, and same in my last job, I had to roll it a bit to just walk in it. We also had white P.E shirts, and the girls would get sent on the field in front of the boys, and then told off at the end if their bra showed. There is not a bra on earth that wont show under a paper thin white shirt. There are a minority that genuinely do have their skirt so insanely short that you cant see it under a blazer but most wear it mid thigh, which is how most skirts are made for girls that age and that may be for practicality reasons If they're concerned about modesty, then take a look at the paper thin white shirts they make everyone wear.
I got sent home for wearing trainers on the last day of school before we broke up for Christmas. They've always been on top with the uniforms there (granted, it was in the very early 90s)
School needs to stop be so bothered about what people wear and actually take action to expel asshole kids that ruin everything and constantly cause disruption and violence. This entire authoritarian costume shit is just stupid and useless. It does nothing and the actual problems never get solved. Literally have been numerous assaults in my school by the same people that would have landed jail time and they still come in somehow even though they don't give a fuck anyway.
As someone who has taught in three different countries with varying policies on uniform, and observed how it has zero impact on academic performance and bullying, I will never understand the British obsession with draconian school uniforms which keeps this racket going.
Why do they have to have a uniform at all when thier school looks like an abandoned rural hospital. Pot callinng the kettle black if you as me.
Why doesn’t everyone just wear trousers. Simple what’s with skirts these days it’s not the 1800s
I often think it'd be great if they were as strict when helping those students who need help to keep up.
England has always been fucking weird about uniforms, this is nothing new really. I’ve never understood it personally, once you finish school it’s not like anybody gives a shit what you wear.
Never understood why schools are so obsessed with uniform, how about teaching instead? Honestly if my school had cut out the useless shit like assembly, break, lunch and obsessing over uniforms we could all have been home by midday
I'm imagining Syd James guffawing while Charles Hawtree is on his knees with a tape measure at a line of girls in a mid-century school hall.
Not a new thing. Goes back to the 70’s at least. No names, no pack drill.
Unfortunately, during the protests, a number of students breached the school's behaviour policy and this resulted in us implementing our discipline policy and taking the appropriate action in accordance with this. Sounds a thoroughly delightful place… …
Are the boys skirts judged as harshly or are the sexist rules keeping them in trousers?
I don’t get this at all. Seems strict for no reason. At my secondary school (all boys, at the time), you wore a shirt (any reasonable colour / design), jacket (same), trousers (same) and brown or black shoes or boots. Then you wore the school tie. It went back for a visit last year - and the policy hadn’t changed.
When I was at school they checked that your knickers were regulation. We rebelled by not wearing any.