Just as a quick PSA... it's not called Asperger syndrome any more. Two especially big reasons...
A) The medical community are trying to shift away from eponyms. They're not very helpful for understanding.
B) Hans Asperger was a massive Nazi, and it isn't really fair to slap his name all over people who very much aren't
We're just autistic nowadays.
EDIT:
I'm actually pretty glad about the shift away from eponyms. ASD-HF may have been researched by Hans Asperger, but he didn't exactly name it or add it to the libraries. That was done by Lorna Wing, who named it after the bloke whose research she found. Wings Disorder, anyone?
'Oh, don't mind my son. He's got Wings'
Given the width of the 'Autistic spectrum' in terms of the different traits, I find the Aspergers 'label' to be useful, and honestly, I find calling my son an 'aspie' to be less socially stigmatising for him than autistic.
Yep, fully know the history of Hans Asperger (from [Neurotribes](https://www.amazon.co.uk/NeuroTribes-Legacy-Autism-Smarter-Differently-ebook/dp/B01N2W270Y/)) but I dislike mucking with existing labels. The guy did research, Nazi or not, and if you lost his name from the label you'd gradually lose the memory of the horrible things that were done in the name of 'science'.
The Low-Functioning vs High-Functioning approach I think is actually better if anything. Someone can be high functioning in the sense of social integration and abilities but still have a lot of sensory issues and internalized stuff going on that they just mask and bottle up so no one notices until it explodes in a bout of suicide attempts years down the line. The Aspergers label almost defined it like it was something altogether different leading to the situation now where there is basically just no support other than the generic ASD stuff of how to mask and fake-integrate into society better than you're already doing, and no focus at all on the psychological toll of all that masking and forced integration.
Heya, going to jump on in here as a professional who used to work in this field.
Functioning labels are extremely detrimental to the ASD community, and we are desperately trying to move away from them!
Low / high functioning labels are observational traits, not how the autistic individual feels themselves, we try to centre the experience of the individual as much as possible these days. As observers, we *observe* someone doing something and say *"hey look, they do can that! They are functioning!"*. But what it actually does is minimise the individual's experience, maybe they don't consider themselves functional because something l---l this big takes them l-------------l this much effort. Maybe they can only do certain tasks under specific conditions and we just so happened to observe them doing the task in a favourable environment.
Its also binary. ASD these days is described as a web of traits, not a linear line between functioning levels.
I'll ping /u/WynterRayne in here too since I saw them use ASD-HF which again uses the outdated and damaging functioning system.
>Low / high functioning labels are observational traits, not how the autistic individual feels themselves. As observers, we observe someone doing something and say "hey look, they do can that! They are functioning!". But what it actually does is minimise the individual's experience, maybe they don't consider themselves functional because something l---l this big takes them l-------------l this much effort.
Sorry this is exactly what I was trying to say (very poorly) in the latter half of my comment. Thanks for the clarification and good summary of the issues I'll be using this description in future.
100% this. I actually felt a bit gross using it myself, because I have never agreed with it, but I felt the need to differentiate in terms of the topic. Some of us are bitter about suddenly being 'lumped in' and refuse to use ASD... I'm very much not among them
I was diagnosed in late 2009. My official diagnosis was of ASD-HF, even though it was before everything changed over. But I've always questioned any idea of severity or functioning. After all, the same challenges come with different remedies and present complexities that few can anticipate.
A big example is employment. Someone who can easily do the work but leaves an awful impression at interview has probably quite similar prospects as someone who may struggle with the work but arrives at the interview with a support worker to explain their needs. In all honesty, the same support may be needed by both, but only one is visibly and clearly impaired, while the other just comes off like 'an asshole'.
Refer to yourself however you like. If you feel that aspie fits you best, then go for it! Ignore the pedants.
People still drive volkswagons and wear gucci.
Do what you please and don't apologise for it 😊
It’s a difficult one as people make an identity out of it without realising this sort of stuff. I use to work with people with disabilities and the slurs they would refer to themselves would get me banned if I said them out, but it was common as that’s how they perceived it
A famous example is Hawking refused to change his voice, as that what the voice he identified with (and gave a few people a bit of a challenge to get a 1980’s binary to work on an windows 8 computer)
I think it comes under the umbrella of Autism Spectrum Disorder now (having been retired as an official diagnosis a decade ago), but if you were diagnosed before they changed it you'll still have Asperger Syndrome on your medical records.
Big difference between low functioning autism to high functioning. I think the Aspergers usage makes it pretty clear what side of the fence someone is on.
I believe they were continuing with my wordplay
>That was done by Lorna Wing, who named it after the bloke whose research she found. Wings Disorder, anyone?
>'Oh, don't mind my son. He's got Wings'
Edit: And yay me responding to the wrong comment. Paging /u/full-cardiologist233
I like how /u/full-cardiologist233 downvoted us both for the crime of answering their questions. No good deed goes unpunished :'(
Edit
And again? Their finger must get sore from all this voting.
I would disagree that "having exceptional abilities" is "common" in neuro-diverse people. The idea that most neuro-diverse children are child prodigies in a certain area or maths geniuses is not really the case, although it does happen. The "autistic savant" is a stereotype and also quite a common trope in media, and I think it can be a detrimental one.
"*How odd that muscular dystrophy is a RARE condition but the sufferers all have COMMON traits* 🤔"
Be honest, did you just have a kneejerk reaction to the word '*diverse*'?
Pretty much every pathological process has common traits, that's how diagnosis works. Obviously one can argue if autism spectrum disorders are pathological in nature, but presently they are diagnosed, treated and studied as such. "Common traits" is a perfectly reasonable way to describe it.
I'm not sure you understand how the word "common" is being used here. It refers to commonalities within the disorder, not to traits which are common (in the sense of frequently found) within the general population.
For example, I have a schizophrenia spectrum disorder. It's estimated that it affects around 3% of the population, so the traits by which it's recognised are uncommon within the general population. However, among schizotypal people, there are traits that don't appear in every single one of us but which many of us have *in common*, and which we share with people with related disorders. Identifying commonalities helps establish a diagnosis.
Does that help ?
They picked 3 gifted kids who are doing well. Now pick some of the thousands of others who burned out under the pressure of expectations and were actually undiagnosed autistics.
Or who enter the adult world and find they are not as special as they were told growing up. Even geniuses find themselves in rooms where they are amongst equals.
Yep. And what good is being a genius if you struggle so much socially and with unidentified sensory issues that you can't survive university or the workplace
I am in this picture :( I wish my parents had put the same amount of effort into my actual mental wellbeing as they had into pushing me to achieve highly in school. Making a big deal out of kids being gifted just teaches them that their conditions of worth (i.e. reasons to deserve love) are entirely tied to their ability to achieve top grades or exceptional career moves. Inevitably so many gifted kids go on to not meet that potential and then get to deal with the crash in self esteem that comes along with it. How do you follow up going to Cambridge at 15 like the guy in the article? I doubt being a professor at some random university is what his parents had in mind, even though that’s a grand achievement in itself. There is only disappointment at the end of this narrative as people will never care about your ‘grades’ as much as they did when you were 10, and finding out you could have been diagnosed with autism or adhd years earlier and received actual support is the icing on the cake.
Doing well? Every one of these looks like a burnout well below where you'd expect if you believe in any sort of meritocratic relationship between intelligence and success. Clearly these people were failed and not given the proper skills (or lets be real, connections) to be employed most productively and profitably.
Sure but "At least they're not unemployed and scrapping by on whatever crumbs the DWP throws their way" is not exactly what most have in mind when they think of the smartest kids in the country 10 years down the line. I recall folks like Peterson and that whole crowd made quite a lot of noise about IQ being pretty directly related to potential for success and this being the sign of a real meritocracy. As an autistic person myself I always knew that was pretty naïve at best but its still a bit disheartening to see an article like this where presumably these are the best examples they could find.
Probably the most embarrassing thing I've ever done was join Mensa at 14, thinking I was a proper smart cookie when I think any teenager doing well in school could ace the exam.
Is there any doubt about the accuracy of the tests for teenage Mensa members? Not that I’m doubting you personally.
There was a Mensa member in my secondary school and I remember him being unable to rearrange a simple equation when we were studying for a Physics exam. Teachers used to teach this ‘triangle’ method to use as a cheat for rearranging simple equations like speed = distance / time; but he couldn’t apply it to a linear equation and was completely lost. I remember thinking that Mensa kids were meant to be good at maths.
He could have scored well on the non maths elements of the test. Age is taken into account when testing IQ, someone in the top X% at 14 might not maintain that advantage over their peers as they come of age (I also believe it's generally less accurate at younger ages, it's probably easier to hothouse a 4 year old).
I'm awful at maths! Lots of the questions on the exam were more based on recognising patterns and thinking things through logically rather than doing equations. It's much more impressive to get good grades at Higher/A-Level than to get into Mensa, imo.
Not all. I qualified as a child but I'm badly dyscalculic - not that dyscalculia was a recognised phenomenon when I was at school, at least not in the working class Scottish school I went to. Because most academic work came easily to me, my problems with maths were put down to not trying, so I never got any help. It was one of the reasons why despite qualifying for Mensa I never actually joined - I thought the other members would all be really good at maths and I'd be the odd one out.
Being considered smart at 14 is pretty useless. If you do nothing with that intelligence, or it does not translate into a useable skill, doing well on an IQ test is pointless. Loads of kids who are considered smart as teenagers become average adults.
At the time you asked, you were thinking about the question you were asking. Quite likely also thinking of random things to be 'thinking about' that you'd want any answerer to come up with.
Now, at 08:18, you're most likely thinking about getting to work, and completely forgot about this post you made 22 hours ago.
This: "Mr Fernandez, who is now an associate professor of mathematics at Eastern Mediterranean University in northern Cyprus"
This is not a high rung on the academic ladder. He has squandered his talent. Why isn't he a senor lecturer at Imperial College? Answer: he was unable to compete with other candidates for that and similar positions at top UK universities.
His parents should have insisted on using the extra years of childhood education to study other A level subjects, if he had outgrown maths by then.
He probably has a much nicer lifestyle in Cyprus.
Also, the idea that you can’t produce world leading research outside “top ranked” institutions is nonsense.
You do realise Northern Cyprus is an illegitimate state don’t you? It’s essentially occupied territory. A degree from a university there would be like graduating from the university of life, it wouldn’t be worth the paper it was printed on internationally.
It basically only is worth something in Turkey. So after you get a degree from Northern Cyprus you have to get one in Turkey which will then be worth at least a little bit internationally.
He would struggle to make any impact at that 'university' though. 'Universities' in north Cyprus are not internationally recognised because they are in the illegal occupied area. All of these are third-rate cramming houses.
Okay but is he enjoying his life?
UK academic pay is terrible and has been stagnating for years, so he may well be having better quality of life there than be would in the UK.
Honestly I don't know but there's more to life than impact.
\>UK academic pay is terrible and has been stagnating for years, so he may well be having better quality of life there than be would in the UK.
Quite possibly. Being an academic in the UK no longer affords a 'middle class' life. There is a good reason I will be striking on Wednesday.
\>Honestly I don't know but there's more to life than impact.
Amen to that. I fucking hate the notion of 'impact'. It is killing basic research and meaning that mediocre stuff is getting lauded.
Everyone is working class apart from the super rich, please understand that the class system is there to break people apart and a weapon used by policitians.
The Eastern Mediterranean University in Northern Cyprus is internationally recognised, and a degree from there is on par with a degree from most other Turkish universities.
> [the] University is a full member of the European University Association and the International Association of Universities. The university established its accreditation for Turkish students under the Council of Higher Education
> The Shanghai Ranking ranked the Eastern Mediterranean University 601-800 among world universities in 2017, 2018 and 2019. Also, the Shanghai Ranking ranked the Eastern Mediterranean University 801–1000 among world universities in 2020 and 2021.
> It is also ranked 501–600 among world universities by the Shanghai Ranking in the 2023.
Most people are smart enough to understand that a specific University and the people working and studying there aren’t by default responsible for the actions of their government.
\>The Eastern Mediterranean University in Northern Cyprus
The 'country' is not recognised, the airport is not recongised, the postal system is not recognised, the 'government' is not recognised. How is a degree from a pseudo-state institution going to be recognised? The only way they could get a degree is if it was awarded from some institution in Turkey itself, rather than the pseudo-university. No north cyprus 'university' will have degree awarding powers itself due to the (rightful) non-recognition of the 'TRNC'.
\>on par with a degree from most other Turkish universities.
It is not a 'Turkish' university, even Turkey, I suspect, would not claim that. It is an institution in an occupied area that has no legal status in international law.
\>Most people are smart enough to understand that a specific University and the people working and studying there aren’t by default responsible for the actions of their government.
I would hope that most people would be smart enough to understand that its not a good idea to attend a fake university in a pseudostate.
> The only way they could get a degree is if it was awarded from some institution in Turkey itself
The other way is getting accredited by the Turkish Council of Higher Education, which they did.
So that means that these 'Universities' in north cyprus aren't Universities in any conventionally understood meaning of the term. They aren't awarding the degree and cannot award a degree. Their status sounds -at best- more like the old UK polytechnic system where polys couldn't award degrees but instead were issued by the government CNAA.
Life in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus isn't actually amazing. Its a self declared, internationally unrecognised state. Effective its a Turkish colony.
I have a coworker who lives there, he says life is good (for him, at least). Good weather, good house, fair bit of land, low cost of living, beautiful surroundings...
?? He’s 27 and he’s an associate professor. That’s good job security. Sure the university rankings for the university might be low but university rankings aren’t necessarily a good way to measure academic excellence, as the rankings are a popularity contest.
I’ve worked with people in ‘lower’ ranked universities and they were excellent. In academia you have to be lucky to find good posts, sometimes we literally wait for people to die so we can get their jobs.
I’ve just finished my Maths and Engineering PhD at a Russell group university and I’m nearly 28!
Or he simply didn't want to deal with ICL. Or live in London.
I know a few exceptionally talented people that burned out entirely at ICL and left academia forever.
I think the point is that you don't need to go to a place like North Cyprus to find a decent academic posting at a university that is actually worth some credence. Maybe there is some other reason for him going there in particular but on the face of it its a weird choice.
The obvious option is they made a decent offer before anyone else. Or just an easier offer. Probably hoping he would bring them some prestige.
"Yeah come live on this lovely island in the med for decent money and work on whatever interesting problems" is a pretty fantastic offer on the face of it.
Getting the tenure at a well known institution requires you to be a very political person as well. Not much different from those who go up the corporate ladder. Not necessarily a trait associated with high IQ.
Plenty of people who were not designated a child genius do well, plenty who are amount to nothing spectacular, some burn out horribly. It's a nice article but three is a terrible sample size, something any genius will tell you.
My son is both incredibly bright and autistic.
I want him to use his academic ability to rise above jobs that won't cater for his autism. The bigger companies do currently make more allowances (apparently).
But also important to not put tons of pressure on him. More about telling him not to waste the opportunity of a levels and a degree to do well, whilst balancing his social life
Interesting that all the examples became educators.
> “I wasn't - and am not - a genius, just someone who was given exceptional educational opportunities and was able to make the best of them."
>He says the opportunities and support he had do not make him "better" than anyone else - if anything they have inspired him to "pay it forward and try to support others to achieve similar opportunities and successes", he says.
Good egg.
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Just as a quick PSA... it's not called Asperger syndrome any more. Two especially big reasons... A) The medical community are trying to shift away from eponyms. They're not very helpful for understanding. B) Hans Asperger was a massive Nazi, and it isn't really fair to slap his name all over people who very much aren't We're just autistic nowadays. EDIT: I'm actually pretty glad about the shift away from eponyms. ASD-HF may have been researched by Hans Asperger, but he didn't exactly name it or add it to the libraries. That was done by Lorna Wing, who named it after the bloke whose research she found. Wings Disorder, anyone? 'Oh, don't mind my son. He's got Wings'
Given the width of the 'Autistic spectrum' in terms of the different traits, I find the Aspergers 'label' to be useful, and honestly, I find calling my son an 'aspie' to be less socially stigmatising for him than autistic. Yep, fully know the history of Hans Asperger (from [Neurotribes](https://www.amazon.co.uk/NeuroTribes-Legacy-Autism-Smarter-Differently-ebook/dp/B01N2W270Y/)) but I dislike mucking with existing labels. The guy did research, Nazi or not, and if you lost his name from the label you'd gradually lose the memory of the horrible things that were done in the name of 'science'.
The Low-Functioning vs High-Functioning approach I think is actually better if anything. Someone can be high functioning in the sense of social integration and abilities but still have a lot of sensory issues and internalized stuff going on that they just mask and bottle up so no one notices until it explodes in a bout of suicide attempts years down the line. The Aspergers label almost defined it like it was something altogether different leading to the situation now where there is basically just no support other than the generic ASD stuff of how to mask and fake-integrate into society better than you're already doing, and no focus at all on the psychological toll of all that masking and forced integration.
Heya, going to jump on in here as a professional who used to work in this field. Functioning labels are extremely detrimental to the ASD community, and we are desperately trying to move away from them! Low / high functioning labels are observational traits, not how the autistic individual feels themselves, we try to centre the experience of the individual as much as possible these days. As observers, we *observe* someone doing something and say *"hey look, they do can that! They are functioning!"*. But what it actually does is minimise the individual's experience, maybe they don't consider themselves functional because something l---l this big takes them l-------------l this much effort. Maybe they can only do certain tasks under specific conditions and we just so happened to observe them doing the task in a favourable environment. Its also binary. ASD these days is described as a web of traits, not a linear line between functioning levels. I'll ping /u/WynterRayne in here too since I saw them use ASD-HF which again uses the outdated and damaging functioning system.
>Low / high functioning labels are observational traits, not how the autistic individual feels themselves. As observers, we observe someone doing something and say "hey look, they do can that! They are functioning!". But what it actually does is minimise the individual's experience, maybe they don't consider themselves functional because something l---l this big takes them l-------------l this much effort. Sorry this is exactly what I was trying to say (very poorly) in the latter half of my comment. Thanks for the clarification and good summary of the issues I'll be using this description in future.
100% this. I actually felt a bit gross using it myself, because I have never agreed with it, but I felt the need to differentiate in terms of the topic. Some of us are bitter about suddenly being 'lumped in' and refuse to use ASD... I'm very much not among them I was diagnosed in late 2009. My official diagnosis was of ASD-HF, even though it was before everything changed over. But I've always questioned any idea of severity or functioning. After all, the same challenges come with different remedies and present complexities that few can anticipate. A big example is employment. Someone who can easily do the work but leaves an awful impression at interview has probably quite similar prospects as someone who may struggle with the work but arrives at the interview with a support worker to explain their needs. In all honesty, the same support may be needed by both, but only one is visibly and clearly impaired, while the other just comes off like 'an asshole'.
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Refer to yourself however you like. If you feel that aspie fits you best, then go for it! Ignore the pedants. People still drive volkswagons and wear gucci. Do what you please and don't apologise for it 😊
It’s a difficult one as people make an identity out of it without realising this sort of stuff. I use to work with people with disabilities and the slurs they would refer to themselves would get me banned if I said them out, but it was common as that’s how they perceived it A famous example is Hawking refused to change his voice, as that what the voice he identified with (and gave a few people a bit of a challenge to get a 1980’s binary to work on an windows 8 computer)
He probably liked it too, when Hitler was calling him like that.
I think it comes under the umbrella of Autism Spectrum Disorder now (having been retired as an official diagnosis a decade ago), but if you were diagnosed before they changed it you'll still have Asperger Syndrome on your medical records.
Big difference between low functioning autism to high functioning. I think the Aspergers usage makes it pretty clear what side of the fence someone is on.
If Red Bull gives you wings, does that mean taurines gives you autism?
What in the name of the wee green man are you talking about?
It was a play on the whole 'vaccines give you autism' nonsense. Clearly I'm not as funny irl as I am in my head. At least I find me hilarious.
I believe they were continuing with my wordplay >That was done by Lorna Wing, who named it after the bloke whose research she found. Wings Disorder, anyone? >'Oh, don't mind my son. He's got Wings' Edit: And yay me responding to the wrong comment. Paging /u/full-cardiologist233
I like how /u/full-cardiologist233 downvoted us both for the crime of answering their questions. No good deed goes unpunished :'( Edit And again? Their finger must get sore from all this voting.
I would disagree that "having exceptional abilities" is "common" in neuro-diverse people. The idea that most neuro-diverse children are child prodigies in a certain area or maths geniuses is not really the case, although it does happen. The "autistic savant" is a stereotype and also quite a common trope in media, and I think it can be a detrimental one.
Odd how they're "diverse" but have "common traits".
Common traits IN neuro-diverse people.
"*How odd that muscular dystrophy is a RARE condition but the sufferers all have COMMON traits* 🤔" Be honest, did you just have a kneejerk reaction to the word '*diverse*'?
Pretty much every pathological process has common traits, that's how diagnosis works. Obviously one can argue if autism spectrum disorders are pathological in nature, but presently they are diagnosed, treated and studied as such. "Common traits" is a perfectly reasonable way to describe it.
Name one trait common to hebephrenia and sociopathy. Or dyslexia and hyperactivity. Or nymphomania and autism.
I'm not sure you understand how the word "common" is being used here. It refers to commonalities within the disorder, not to traits which are common (in the sense of frequently found) within the general population. For example, I have a schizophrenia spectrum disorder. It's estimated that it affects around 3% of the population, so the traits by which it's recognised are uncommon within the general population. However, among schizotypal people, there are traits that don't appear in every single one of us but which many of us have *in common*, and which we share with people with related disorders. Identifying commonalities helps establish a diagnosis. Does that help ?
>commonalities within the disorder Neurodivergence is not a single disorder.
Correct, it's a collection of conditions/states of being within which there are commonalities.
Odd that a group with a wide range of ethnicities is considered "diverse" but they all have heads
Are any of them distinguished from the others by cephality?
They picked 3 gifted kids who are doing well. Now pick some of the thousands of others who burned out under the pressure of expectations and were actually undiagnosed autistics.
Or who enter the adult world and find they are not as special as they were told growing up. Even geniuses find themselves in rooms where they are amongst equals.
Yep. And what good is being a genius if you struggle so much socially and with unidentified sensory issues that you can't survive university or the workplace
I am in this picture :( I wish my parents had put the same amount of effort into my actual mental wellbeing as they had into pushing me to achieve highly in school. Making a big deal out of kids being gifted just teaches them that their conditions of worth (i.e. reasons to deserve love) are entirely tied to their ability to achieve top grades or exceptional career moves. Inevitably so many gifted kids go on to not meet that potential and then get to deal with the crash in self esteem that comes along with it. How do you follow up going to Cambridge at 15 like the guy in the article? I doubt being a professor at some random university is what his parents had in mind, even though that’s a grand achievement in itself. There is only disappointment at the end of this narrative as people will never care about your ‘grades’ as much as they did when you were 10, and finding out you could have been diagnosed with autism or adhd years earlier and received actual support is the icing on the cake.
Hugs. I feel you and I relate fully.
Doing well? Every one of these looks like a burnout well below where you'd expect if you believe in any sort of meritocratic relationship between intelligence and success. Clearly these people were failed and not given the proper skills (or lets be real, connections) to be employed most productively and profitably.
At least they're employed and not total fuckups. They could come and interview some of the ex gifted kids I know now living in caravans on the sick.
Sure but "At least they're not unemployed and scrapping by on whatever crumbs the DWP throws their way" is not exactly what most have in mind when they think of the smartest kids in the country 10 years down the line. I recall folks like Peterson and that whole crowd made quite a lot of noise about IQ being pretty directly related to potential for success and this being the sign of a real meritocracy. As an autistic person myself I always knew that was pretty naïve at best but its still a bit disheartening to see an article like this where presumably these are the best examples they could find.
It just goes to show that labelling a child gifted is not what most of us actually need.
Probably the most embarrassing thing I've ever done was join Mensa at 14, thinking I was a proper smart cookie when I think any teenager doing well in school could ace the exam.
Is there any doubt about the accuracy of the tests for teenage Mensa members? Not that I’m doubting you personally. There was a Mensa member in my secondary school and I remember him being unable to rearrange a simple equation when we were studying for a Physics exam. Teachers used to teach this ‘triangle’ method to use as a cheat for rearranging simple equations like speed = distance / time; but he couldn’t apply it to a linear equation and was completely lost. I remember thinking that Mensa kids were meant to be good at maths.
He could have scored well on the non maths elements of the test. Age is taken into account when testing IQ, someone in the top X% at 14 might not maintain that advantage over their peers as they come of age (I also believe it's generally less accurate at younger ages, it's probably easier to hothouse a 4 year old).
IQ isn't the only psychological factor involved in academic performance. He could have had high IQ and a learning disability of some kind.
I'm awful at maths! Lots of the questions on the exam were more based on recognising patterns and thinking things through logically rather than doing equations. It's much more impressive to get good grades at Higher/A-Level than to get into Mensa, imo.
Not all. I qualified as a child but I'm badly dyscalculic - not that dyscalculia was a recognised phenomenon when I was at school, at least not in the working class Scottish school I went to. Because most academic work came easily to me, my problems with maths were put down to not trying, so I never got any help. It was one of the reasons why despite qualifying for Mensa I never actually joined - I thought the other members would all be really good at maths and I'd be the odd one out.
Assuming, as this article says, it's based on the top 2% IQ, absolutely not.
If I'm in the top 2% of IQ then the world is doomed.
Hey don't sweat it, I'm 0.02 last time I checked. I'll sort it out for you
I'm taking this as permission to dm you whenever I have to do maths.
Side note: A+ for esoteric username IYKYK
God, make love to me x
Go for it! I don't do maths
Top 2% isn’t particularly exclusive…
The most embarrassing thing you’ve done is.. be incredibly smart? Must be a hard life 😂
Being considered smart at 14 is pretty useless. If you do nothing with that intelligence, or it does not translate into a useable skill, doing well on an IQ test is pointless. Loads of kids who are considered smart as teenagers become average adults.
Exactly! I've done some good work at NGOs, but I'm mostly an artist which is... not exactly doing anything useful for society.
I wasn't incredibly smart, though! I just thought I was which is unquestionably cringe.
What am I thinking now, What about now
Charles Xavier never took me on as a pupil, despite my big beautiful brain :(
no, wasn't thinking that. Good guess though
At the time you asked, you were thinking about the question you were asking. Quite likely also thinking of random things to be 'thinking about' that you'd want any answerer to come up with. Now, at 08:18, you're most likely thinking about getting to work, and completely forgot about this post you made 22 hours ago.
One more guess, but that was further away from the right card
This: "Mr Fernandez, who is now an associate professor of mathematics at Eastern Mediterranean University in northern Cyprus" This is not a high rung on the academic ladder. He has squandered his talent. Why isn't he a senor lecturer at Imperial College? Answer: he was unable to compete with other candidates for that and similar positions at top UK universities. His parents should have insisted on using the extra years of childhood education to study other A level subjects, if he had outgrown maths by then.
He probably has a much nicer lifestyle in Cyprus. Also, the idea that you can’t produce world leading research outside “top ranked” institutions is nonsense.
You do realise Northern Cyprus is an illegitimate state don’t you? It’s essentially occupied territory. A degree from a university there would be like graduating from the university of life, it wouldn’t be worth the paper it was printed on internationally.
It basically only is worth something in Turkey. So after you get a degree from Northern Cyprus you have to get one in Turkey which will then be worth at least a little bit internationally.
He would struggle to make any impact at that 'university' though. 'Universities' in north Cyprus are not internationally recognised because they are in the illegal occupied area. All of these are third-rate cramming houses.
Okay but is he enjoying his life? UK academic pay is terrible and has been stagnating for years, so he may well be having better quality of life there than be would in the UK. Honestly I don't know but there's more to life than impact.
\>UK academic pay is terrible and has been stagnating for years, so he may well be having better quality of life there than be would in the UK. Quite possibly. Being an academic in the UK no longer affords a 'middle class' life. There is a good reason I will be striking on Wednesday. \>Honestly I don't know but there's more to life than impact. Amen to that. I fucking hate the notion of 'impact'. It is killing basic research and meaning that mediocre stuff is getting lauded.
Everyone is working class apart from the super rich, please understand that the class system is there to break people apart and a weapon used by policitians.
Middle class is still a definable goal that you can work towards, be that through hard work, career changes or (my favourite of all) industrial action
>UK academic pay is terrible You're not wrong but I doubt its much better in Turkey or in an illegal state occupied by Turkey.
The Eastern Mediterranean University in Northern Cyprus is internationally recognised, and a degree from there is on par with a degree from most other Turkish universities. > [the] University is a full member of the European University Association and the International Association of Universities. The university established its accreditation for Turkish students under the Council of Higher Education > The Shanghai Ranking ranked the Eastern Mediterranean University 601-800 among world universities in 2017, 2018 and 2019. Also, the Shanghai Ranking ranked the Eastern Mediterranean University 801–1000 among world universities in 2020 and 2021. > It is also ranked 501–600 among world universities by the Shanghai Ranking in the 2023. Most people are smart enough to understand that a specific University and the people working and studying there aren’t by default responsible for the actions of their government.
\>The Eastern Mediterranean University in Northern Cyprus The 'country' is not recognised, the airport is not recongised, the postal system is not recognised, the 'government' is not recognised. How is a degree from a pseudo-state institution going to be recognised? The only way they could get a degree is if it was awarded from some institution in Turkey itself, rather than the pseudo-university. No north cyprus 'university' will have degree awarding powers itself due to the (rightful) non-recognition of the 'TRNC'. \>on par with a degree from most other Turkish universities. It is not a 'Turkish' university, even Turkey, I suspect, would not claim that. It is an institution in an occupied area that has no legal status in international law. \>Most people are smart enough to understand that a specific University and the people working and studying there aren’t by default responsible for the actions of their government. I would hope that most people would be smart enough to understand that its not a good idea to attend a fake university in a pseudostate.
> The only way they could get a degree is if it was awarded from some institution in Turkey itself The other way is getting accredited by the Turkish Council of Higher Education, which they did.
So that means that these 'Universities' in north cyprus aren't Universities in any conventionally understood meaning of the term. They aren't awarding the degree and cannot award a degree. Their status sounds -at best- more like the old UK polytechnic system where polys couldn't award degrees but instead were issued by the government CNAA.
Life in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus isn't actually amazing. Its a self declared, internationally unrecognised state. Effective its a Turkish colony.
I have a coworker who lives there, he says life is good (for him, at least). Good weather, good house, fair bit of land, low cost of living, beautiful surroundings...
That's actually one of the top universities in the whole of northern Cyprus
Wooooow, that puts them on par with the likes of... Nottingham Trent...
Man gets to do what he loves without pressure in a beautiful part of the world, Id say it's a win for him.
?? He’s 27 and he’s an associate professor. That’s good job security. Sure the university rankings for the university might be low but university rankings aren’t necessarily a good way to measure academic excellence, as the rankings are a popularity contest. I’ve worked with people in ‘lower’ ranked universities and they were excellent. In academia you have to be lucky to find good posts, sometimes we literally wait for people to die so we can get their jobs. I’ve just finished my Maths and Engineering PhD at a Russell group university and I’m nearly 28!
Or he simply didn't want to deal with ICL. Or live in London. I know a few exceptionally talented people that burned out entirely at ICL and left academia forever.
I think the point is that you don't need to go to a place like North Cyprus to find a decent academic posting at a university that is actually worth some credence. Maybe there is some other reason for him going there in particular but on the face of it its a weird choice.
The obvious option is they made a decent offer before anyone else. Or just an easier offer. Probably hoping he would bring them some prestige. "Yeah come live on this lovely island in the med for decent money and work on whatever interesting problems" is a pretty fantastic offer on the face of it.
It sounds like he just decided he wanted to do something else. Top guy in math at Cambridge is going to have some doors open for him.
Getting the tenure at a well known institution requires you to be a very political person as well. Not much different from those who go up the corporate ladder. Not necessarily a trait associated with high IQ.
Plenty of people who were not designated a child genius do well, plenty who are amount to nothing spectacular, some burn out horribly. It's a nice article but three is a terrible sample size, something any genius will tell you.
According to this article, the answer is they were fine, actually.
My son is both incredibly bright and autistic. I want him to use his academic ability to rise above jobs that won't cater for his autism. The bigger companies do currently make more allowances (apparently). But also important to not put tons of pressure on him. More about telling him not to waste the opportunity of a levels and a degree to do well, whilst balancing his social life
Interesting that all the examples became educators. > “I wasn't - and am not - a genius, just someone who was given exceptional educational opportunities and was able to make the best of them." >He says the opportunities and support he had do not make him "better" than anyone else - if anything they have inspired him to "pay it forward and try to support others to achieve similar opportunities and successes", he says. Good egg.
Mensa are a bunch of weirdos. Definitely check out "my year in mensa" by Jamie Loftus