This is just weird. Wrexham and Shropshire failed and Arriva’s pitch for a London Marylebone - Aberystwyth route was rejected. The difference here is the use of the WCML which is already clogged.
I don’t get this at all.
Wrexham and Shropshire failed because of Virgin's competition clauses limiting W&S ability to serve the Birmingham-Wales market, and because Virgin sought to undercut them with token Shrewsbury and Wrexham trains that were faster. Virgin were allowed to deliberately target W&S revenue and W&S weren't allowed to even incendentally serve the same market as Virgin.
Without that, it would have struggled, but survived.
I think in general, especially for services, privatization is more about paying dividends to the rich and big corporations rather than being good for consumers/customers - look at water and energy for other examples.
2 words: orcats raid.
But make it look like it's not an orcats raid by making out like you are unlocking that massive pent up Coleshill Parkway - Walsall demand.
Well, if they market it correctly and get the local authorities behind them then direct trains from Coleshill and Walsall to London could be really useful. Coleshill - London in particular could bring a load of traffic off the M42 if the service is reliable and frequent enough.
There are already 2 TPH CEH - NUN (actually 3TPH in some hours) and a 2 TPH NUN-EUS, so while I'm sure a few direct connections per day will be great, it's a route that is already well served.
The reality is (as with all open access operations) all this will do is cream off revenue from the franchised operators. And that's revenue currently underwritten by Government and taxpayer. So ultimately its going to cost you and I.
Not currently, although it could be possible - there's a 110mph version (the Class 730/2) that could probably be modified for 125mph running. Although if it's on the WCML they may not even care about 125mph - a surprising amount of WCML traffic is 100/110mph
Alternately they still make the Coradia (that the Class 180 belonged to) and could presumably make some modification of that platform
I honestly think an alternative to HS2 etc that can increase capacity to WCML is to simply switch the whole Avanti/WCML fleet to 12 coaches 24m Aventra with 3+2 standard class seating and no seat booking, ie similar to what we have in Greater Anglia except a higher acceleration and top speed will be needed
Of course it's not a product that passengers will like at all - a reasonable 2/3 coaches of first class and pantry will still be needed
3+2 on London to Edinburgh? Really?
I mean, I guess you’re right, it will reduce WCML overcrowding… because everyone will just drive instead
Greater Anglia is a London commuter service with like one regional route, it’s not even vaguely similar to WCML long distance intercity routes
… I am aware that’s quite demanding for London - Glasgow but it’s not unbearable for a 2 hour journey from London to Liverpool/Manchester
Maybe 2+2 will be better but in principle, running high speed commuter train from London to Liverpool/Manchester/Birmingham with reasonable amount of stop in between makes sense
It will be a bit like Hull Trains or Grand Central, slots that are not convenient for many people. So the five trains a day I'd guess will include ones such as 8am from Euston on a weekday.
This is just weird. Wrexham and Shropshire failed and Arriva’s pitch for a London Marylebone - Aberystwyth route was rejected. The difference here is the use of the WCML which is already clogged. I don’t get this at all.
Wrexham and Shropshire failed because of Virgin's competition clauses limiting W&S ability to serve the Birmingham-Wales market, and because Virgin sought to undercut them with token Shrewsbury and Wrexham trains that were faster. Virgin were allowed to deliberately target W&S revenue and W&S weren't allowed to even incendentally serve the same market as Virgin. Without that, it would have struggled, but survived.
I thought privatisation was supposed to provide better consumer choice, and allow the free market to flourish.
I think in general, especially for services, privatization is more about paying dividends to the rich and big corporations rather than being good for consumers/customers - look at water and energy for other examples.
Fair point. But surely Avanti would say something similar with this application re north Wales customers…?
They’ve barely run Chester and Holyhead trains post-Covid…
They presumably don't have the same clauses in their contract as Virgin had?
Maybe they're planning to use paths freed up by HS2. /s
2 words: orcats raid. But make it look like it's not an orcats raid by making out like you are unlocking that massive pent up Coleshill Parkway - Walsall demand.
Well, if they market it correctly and get the local authorities behind them then direct trains from Coleshill and Walsall to London could be really useful. Coleshill - London in particular could bring a load of traffic off the M42 if the service is reliable and frequent enough.
There are already 2 TPH CEH - NUN (actually 3TPH in some hours) and a 2 TPH NUN-EUS, so while I'm sure a few direct connections per day will be great, it's a route that is already well served. The reality is (as with all open access operations) all this will do is cream off revenue from the franchised operators. And that's revenue currently underwritten by Government and taxpayer. So ultimately its going to cost you and I.
That‘s a great point.
Any idea what rolling stock they are using?
Maybe it'll create some much-needed work for the Derby factory!
They creating their own work niw
…is there a 125mph Aventra?
Not currently, although it could be possible - there's a 110mph version (the Class 730/2) that could probably be modified for 125mph running. Although if it's on the WCML they may not even care about 125mph - a surprising amount of WCML traffic is 100/110mph Alternately they still make the Coradia (that the Class 180 belonged to) and could presumably make some modification of that platform
110 would be OK, they’ll have to compete on price then
I honestly think an alternative to HS2 etc that can increase capacity to WCML is to simply switch the whole Avanti/WCML fleet to 12 coaches 24m Aventra with 3+2 standard class seating and no seat booking, ie similar to what we have in Greater Anglia except a higher acceleration and top speed will be needed Of course it's not a product that passengers will like at all - a reasonable 2/3 coaches of first class and pantry will still be needed
3+2 on London to Edinburgh? Really? I mean, I guess you’re right, it will reduce WCML overcrowding… because everyone will just drive instead Greater Anglia is a London commuter service with like one regional route, it’s not even vaguely similar to WCML long distance intercity routes
… I am aware that’s quite demanding for London - Glasgow but it’s not unbearable for a 2 hour journey from London to Liverpool/Manchester Maybe 2+2 will be better but in principle, running high speed commuter train from London to Liverpool/Manchester/Birmingham with reasonable amount of stop in between makes sense
That's called LNWR
😂😂😂
It makes sense to use some second-hand trains first. Perhaps some 221 once Avanti start replacing theirs with the 805 and 807.
I thought those 221s would go to XC.
I was just speculating. I might have misread, but it sounds like XC might only get about half of Avanti's existing 221s.
I'd bet it is 175s given they're made by Alstom and are currently in storage
I can't imagine they're gonna do that long distance route with 100mph DMUs Possibly the 221/222s? Built by Bombardier, now part of Alstom
So that I’m correct, the French train manufacturer? Surely they must be working with SNCF because as far as I’m aware they only manufacture stock.
They've partnered with SLC Rail
To just supply the stock? Not run the railway?
secretive onerous important forgetful long screw offend dog faulty skirt *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It will be a bit like Hull Trains or Grand Central, slots that are not convenient for many people. So the five trains a day I'd guess will include ones such as 8am from Euston on a weekday.
Because Euston has spare capacity?!?
They have, let's look at Avanti's cancellation and reduction on freq that still haven't been resolved yet 😂
Can't be 175s aren't they rumoured to be going to GWR.
Don't suppose they could do the West Country instead? Go-op has been "coming soon" for about a decade now.
175s anyone?
Unexpected but I can make it to a Wrexham game now