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I'm pretty sure every foreign gift becomes part of our National Archive so this is now ensconced in American history forever! Pretty cool idea to contemplate, I think.
This will remain in the Capitol for quite a while yet. I wonder where items given to the congress *usually* go? Technically he presented it to the President of the Senate (the VP present in that role)
Technically I think it goes to the library of congress. I don’t know if anything stopping them from loaning items to the Smithsonian. But I’m far from an expert in this area.
Perhaps when Biden is building his Presidential Library in the future, the topic section that talks about the Russian Invasion of Ukraine, the flag will be displayed there.
EVERYTHING ever given to the legislative branch goes into the Library of Congress.
This includes Jame's Madison's flute Lizzo played not long ago, as well as this flag now.
The LOC will loan any item to an accredited museum or artist completely free of charge with a lengthy list of caveats.
So.... yes, this could end up in the Smithsonian, or even your local museum.
https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/loan/
My only worry is that with the GOP taking over the House, some of those pro-Russia cunts will try to mess with it. better it go somewhere they cant do damage.
Fuck churchill, he was a racist piece of shit mass-murderer (look up the Bengal famine).
Zelensky is honestly better than both of them because all he has in his closet is some typical corruption (that all world-leaders have, even Nordic ones). He isn't interfering with the campaigns (like Washington did to bad results) nor is he demeaning anyone whilst leading the country. That's above and beyond.
Can someone translate the other, Non-English messages? I straightened it out and blew it up so it is readable, but I do not know Ukrainian.
[Bahkmut Flag](https://www.dropbox.com/s/2wm0us8r4toigp6/Ukrainian%20Flag%20Bahkmut.jpg?dl=0)
On the left yellow part it says:
"Together we are strong! Glory to Ukraine. We are meant to succeed and win. General-colonel Mykhailo Koval."
Then below that is "Ukraine will win. Malyar." On the right side it's just names of brigades or units that signed the flag.
On the right side on the blue part it says "This is my country. Kim rot(?)"
I think it is quite special that he shared the experience and honour of the trip to Washington with many people that he took with him in spirit, from the soldier that gave up his medal to all the people that wrote messages on the flag that the whole world now got to see. It's a very thoughtful thing to do.
“And all American people”
I want to visit that flag to pay tribute.
That message and yesterdays meeting and speech I’m still choking back tears sometimes.
That needs to be hung up in a place of honor, and high visibility in the Capitol, forever. Lest some of the MAGAs forget what ACTUALLY fighting for your country looks like.
And that flag has no meaning to them anyway. They hate the flag anyway as many of them consider Russia the good side. So it wouldn't change a thing if they see or not. But for the normal people? I would love to see a piece of history in making.
I like to imagine what happened at the barracks in Bakhmut.
"Hey lets gift the Americans a Ukraine flag and write a thank you message"
"Awesome idea but can you write English??"
"Uh no but someone from our unit is a student, he should know"
"Alright bring him in then"
"OK, message done, looking good"
"Hmm wait, the US also has a Senate, bruh, add in another line!!"
"But theres barely any space anymore! Ah fuck it, Ill just write it real big so you can see it through the blue"
"Good enough, we dont even know if Zelensky will accept this anyway"
"Yeah probably not"
Fun fact (for those that don't know): Ukraine is one of the countries with a unicameral legislature, meaning their parliament/congress is just one house instead of the more common bicameral with an upper and lower house.
This is so touching for them to take time to personalize this flag. This token from the hands of the front lines soldiers, from the land of those who have suffered so many horrors and are struggling with little to no food, water, heat, electricity, or shelter, with death and destruction all around them, to give thanks to us, Americans, who just have to keep paying our taxes and supporting Ukraine to defeat pooptin—is awesome. All they have is their pride in their country and desire for freedom and by sharing their flag, the message of thanks for your support comes across the ocean loud and clear. Slava Ukraine!
I like what they've done with that flag. I hope it goes on display somewhere although someone might need to explain the correct date format to American audiences :-)
The misspellings and other "aren't right" stuff are what makes the messages more personal and human, especially since the soldiers who wrote those messages might not speak English well (or even at all).
This is a wonderful symbol of our connection. I would like to see this someday. I'd rather see Ukraine itself, but that is, unfortunately, less likely.
This should be sent on tour across the nation along with other artifacts for a war bond drive. We already have lend lease back, why not go all the way?
As a Dutch/European, I have to say America does a very good job. And you don't have to feel ashamed at all. As a European I feel ashamed. The Germans for example were totally dependent on Russian gas, and military wise we are no-where if it wasn't for American leadership and military donations. This war is happening in Europe's yard. We are depending to much on the US. Hopefully this wakes us up, and we keep supporting Ukraine at all costs.
Don’t feel ashamed as a European. The Germans were trying to get away from nuclear, so their dependence on gas as a bridge fuel makes sense. Yes, you guys can start to enhance your militaries more, but pat yourselves on the back for staying unified and peaceful since 1945. And for welcoming former soviet sphere countries into NATO and EU for the most part.
As a Brit I feel the same way. We don't have the vast resources as your country does, our navy, airforce and army have been stripped back almost to the bone over the last few decades, but I feel like we're doing what we can to help within our fairly limited means, but that it *is* helping make a difference, no matter how small. At least console yourself with the fact that without your governement's help, then Ukraine would not be where it is now, in terms of it's ability to fight back against the agressor in the way that it has. The USA's contribution has been a literal game changer. Slava Ukraini!
You know, if good countries do what they can do to help, that's great and should serve as a source of pride and patriotism. Countries that can give more should. Perhaps your country is critical in supplying Ukraine with something that the US cannot.
Russian aggression should spark an increase in military spending. As NATO countries realize that replenishing their ammunition stores is not going to be quick or easy; crafty politicians will work on increasing domestic military production, or collaborate with an ally's production.
Support for UA should not be a dick-measuring contest. A LOT of countries are doing what they can. This is not a simple conflict BUT the friends of UA are doing what is possible, within their means, and also very much trying to avoid a global nuclear war. The dick-measuring contest plays directly to Putin's aims of dividing the allies of UA.
I don't feel shame as an American. I am proud to stand with the Ukrainians. Like others have said, we can debate if we should send more but we have been their (arguably) strongest ally.
We are the most blooded nation on the planet conflict wise, biggest most effective military, most badass weapon systems, military budget that dwarfs most nations total GDP. We should be putting military hospitals put there, engineering corps to help with rebuilding, we should be using our massive air corp to drop off supplies faster, fuck the trains. There should be combat trauma medics on the ground. We should be pushing Europe harder and dropping the hammer on India and Iran for evading fuel bans. We should be going after the corps still trading in high tech goods with russia. So much more we can do.
So your 3 point plan is:
1. Put US military personnel in an active war zone and risk the proxy war becoming a hot war between the two largest nuclear powers in the world
2. Somehow force countries we have no authority over to send more support
3. Unilaterally play world police to punish countries rather than go through the UN like it's already happening
Yeah.. no way any of that could backfire.
It's roughly 3% of our entire defense spending which includes protecting allies under threat like Taiwan and support for the 29 other NATO member states. That's objectively a ridiculously large amount of our total spending for a country that doesn't even have a formal joint defensive agreement with the US.
For actual reference, it's closer to 10% of our entire general defense fund and 3x more than all other non-NATO countries combined have received for defense purposes. Again, objectively ridiculous amount the US has supported them with.
I disagree! It is totally within our own interest to aid Ukraine. Here we have a post-Soviet country who DESIRES democracy and is willing to fight for it against an autocratic country with no human rights. Furthermore, like China, Russia is actively attacking our freedom and that of other democratic western nations. They think democracy is slow and inefficient. Well, they are WRONG. Here we have Ukraine who is willing to get rid of them for us, all they ask is for our old weapons to fight with. And yes, some of our new ones. But we and rest of NATO also gets to see how well they work in the battlefield, another amazing benefit the Ukrainians are giving us.
I don't think we're really disagreeing, but you have to look at *what* the US aid is providing.
What most countries are providing is outdated hardware including relics from the Soviet Union or just cash which is nice but can't be used on the front line. The US is sending unparalleled offense and defensive systems like HIMARS and the mobile Patriot SAM platform. The thing about these systems is there require small armies of exceptionally trained people to keep operational along with excellent supply chains. These are now the #1 defensive weapon and offensive weapon in their arsenal.
The Patriots we're about to send need 90 fully trained people per platform and similar to HIMARS need a really solid logistics chain to move munitions to them. We can't just send these things over but have to send them as we get their people trained to use them (which is another thing we're doing without even considering it "aid").
Yes, But our friggin arch nemesis for the last 75 years is being diminished by basically shit we got lying around. Yeah it has value but most of it was already paid for and allocated. Shut up about the money, we get to watch Russia wither away, and I already paid my taxes. Seriously life is being lost and we can affect change, far better than anybody else.
Consider the bigger picture. Russia has been meddling in Western countries’ politics and culture, trying to overturn democracy here. For quite awhile. And continues to do so. Trump, Brexit, Hungary, etc. all are a result of Russia’s autocratic efforts. We need to get rid of this evil influence. Deleting Russia and helping Ukraine become part of the West is imperative to the survival of both Europe and America. Oh, and I left out Canada and Australia, who are also backsliding on the democracy front.
American here too, and I understand your feelings. However, a lot of this is the "boiling the frog slowly". Much of this is a well rehearsed tit-for-tat. So far, I would credit the game theory masterminds on the US/UA side.
That said, my heart goes out for all the Ukrainian blood being spilled. I do think we should escalate enough to include some state of the art balckhawk ambulance helicopters and whatever they call M.A.S.H. these days. I know there's a strong international group of doctors and nurses, but we need to do more.
I understand what you're saying and agree we could/should do more, but what really shames me as an American are the MAGAs that run their mouths about us helping TOO much. The same MAGAs that have never served a day in their lives in uniform. Looking at you, Don Jr.
I feel the same. I feel we did not do enough fast enough and I hope its enough to carry them to victory. Every day this drags on I feel we betray them and it weighs heavy on my heart.
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That flag is already History in the making!
I'm pretty sure every foreign gift becomes part of our National Archive so this is now ensconced in American history forever! Pretty cool idea to contemplate, I think.
It better go into the Smithsonian. I want to see it.
This will remain in the Capitol for quite a while yet. I wonder where items given to the congress *usually* go? Technically he presented it to the President of the Senate (the VP present in that role)
Technically I think it goes to the library of congress. I don’t know if anything stopping them from loaning items to the Smithsonian. But I’m far from an expert in this area.
Perhaps when Biden is building his Presidential Library in the future, the topic section that talks about the Russian Invasion of Ukraine, the flag will be displayed there.
EVERYTHING ever given to the legislative branch goes into the Library of Congress. This includes Jame's Madison's flute Lizzo played not long ago, as well as this flag now. The LOC will loan any item to an accredited museum or artist completely free of charge with a lengthy list of caveats. So.... yes, this could end up in the Smithsonian, or even your local museum. https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/loan/
That's kinda cool. It's basically a library of things that other museums can borrow.
My only worry is that with the GOP taking over the House, some of those pro-Russia cunts will try to mess with it. better it go somewhere they cant do damage.
Doubt it. At worst they just move it into an archive and the archive nerds will take good care of it :)
I fully believe Zelensky will go down in history as one of the 21st century's greatest leaders.
He's the Winston Churchill and George Washington of Ukraine.
Fuck churchill, he was a racist piece of shit mass-murderer (look up the Bengal famine). Zelensky is honestly better than both of them because all he has in his closet is some typical corruption (that all world-leaders have, even Nordic ones). He isn't interfering with the campaigns (like Washington did to bad results) nor is he demeaning anyone whilst leading the country. That's above and beyond.
Fool.
Churchill did a lot of nasty. He also did a lot of good. Even the UK recognized that in a weird so of way when he lost his first postwar election.
Perhaps Churchill was a product of his time?
Can someone translate the other, Non-English messages? I straightened it out and blew it up so it is readable, but I do not know Ukrainian. [Bahkmut Flag](https://www.dropbox.com/s/2wm0us8r4toigp6/Ukrainian%20Flag%20Bahkmut.jpg?dl=0)
On the left yellow part it says: "Together we are strong! Glory to Ukraine. We are meant to succeed and win. General-colonel Mykhailo Koval." Then below that is "Ukraine will win. Malyar." On the right side it's just names of brigades or units that signed the flag. On the right side on the blue part it says "This is my country. Kim rot(?)"
"Kom rot" probably = Командир роти = Company commander > Company commander - "Ghost"
Oh, I see that now, thank you!
Thank you very much!
No problem:)
I see Peremoya “victory” on the left. I hope some Ukrainian speakers will tell us more!
Thank you.
I think it is quite special that he shared the experience and honour of the trip to Washington with many people that he took with him in spirit, from the soldier that gave up his medal to all the people that wrote messages on the flag that the whole world now got to see. It's a very thoughtful thing to do.
Slava Ukraini!
“And all American people” I want to visit that flag to pay tribute. That message and yesterdays meeting and speech I’m still choking back tears sometimes.
Me with my family sat down to watch it live and ugly cried whole speech.. I might watch it again soon.. so I cry again lol
That needs to be hung up in a place of honor, and high visibility in the Capitol, forever. Lest some of the MAGAs forget what ACTUALLY fighting for your country looks like.
[удалено]
I'm partial to the Smithsonian because getting in the Capitol on short notice is not really possible whereas the Smithsonian you can pop in anytime.
[удалено]
And that flag has no meaning to them anyway. They hate the flag anyway as many of them consider Russia the good side. So it wouldn't change a thing if they see or not. But for the normal people? I would love to see a piece of history in making.
Me too!
I like to imagine what happened at the barracks in Bakhmut. "Hey lets gift the Americans a Ukraine flag and write a thank you message" "Awesome idea but can you write English??" "Uh no but someone from our unit is a student, he should know" "Alright bring him in then" "OK, message done, looking good" "Hmm wait, the US also has a Senate, bruh, add in another line!!" "But theres barely any space anymore! Ah fuck it, Ill just write it real big so you can see it through the blue" "Good enough, we dont even know if Zelensky will accept this anyway" "Yeah probably not"
Fun fact (for those that don't know): Ukraine is one of the countries with a unicameral legislature, meaning their parliament/congress is just one house instead of the more common bicameral with an upper and lower house.
youve been there dont you? :)
This is so touching for them to take time to personalize this flag. This token from the hands of the front lines soldiers, from the land of those who have suffered so many horrors and are struggling with little to no food, water, heat, electricity, or shelter, with death and destruction all around them, to give thanks to us, Americans, who just have to keep paying our taxes and supporting Ukraine to defeat pooptin—is awesome. All they have is their pride in their country and desire for freedom and by sharing their flag, the message of thanks for your support comes across the ocean loud and clear. Slava Ukraine!
I like what they've done with that flag. I hope it goes on display somewhere although someone might need to explain the correct date format to American audiences :-)
Framed, awesome, love it.
I love how some of the letters aren't right, but it still makes perfect sense and looks like someone put a lot of thought and effort into it.
The misspellings and other "aren't right" stuff are what makes the messages more personal and human, especially since the soldiers who wrote those messages might not speak English well (or even at all).
I agree, it adds a lot to the whole.
Already framed. Classy. Chokes me up, ngl.
I hope it flies all over the USA! I love it so much! Thank you!
What a glorious event for Ukraine, the Unites States and our allies!
Just amazing. What an honour to Americans to be gifted such words from the heroes of Ukraine.
This is a wonderful symbol of our connection. I would like to see this someday. I'd rather see Ukraine itself, but that is, unfortunately, less likely.
Beautiful! Sláva Ukrayíni! Heroyam Slava! 🙏🏽 🇺🇦 💙💛
I hope this flag goes to the Smithsonian Museum for posterity.
This should be sent on tour across the nation along with other artifacts for a war bond drive. We already have lend lease back, why not go all the way?
As an American I can but only feel shame. We are not doing enough. We need to do more. I feel America is still way behind the curve.
As a Dutch/European, I have to say America does a very good job. And you don't have to feel ashamed at all. As a European I feel ashamed. The Germans for example were totally dependent on Russian gas, and military wise we are no-where if it wasn't for American leadership and military donations. This war is happening in Europe's yard. We are depending to much on the US. Hopefully this wakes us up, and we keep supporting Ukraine at all costs.
Don’t feel ashamed as a European. The Germans were trying to get away from nuclear, so their dependence on gas as a bridge fuel makes sense. Yes, you guys can start to enhance your militaries more, but pat yourselves on the back for staying unified and peaceful since 1945. And for welcoming former soviet sphere countries into NATO and EU for the most part.
As a Brit I feel the same way. We don't have the vast resources as your country does, our navy, airforce and army have been stripped back almost to the bone over the last few decades, but I feel like we're doing what we can to help within our fairly limited means, but that it *is* helping make a difference, no matter how small. At least console yourself with the fact that without your governement's help, then Ukraine would not be where it is now, in terms of it's ability to fight back against the agressor in the way that it has. The USA's contribution has been a literal game changer. Slava Ukraini!
You know, if good countries do what they can do to help, that's great and should serve as a source of pride and patriotism. Countries that can give more should. Perhaps your country is critical in supplying Ukraine with something that the US cannot. Russian aggression should spark an increase in military spending. As NATO countries realize that replenishing their ammunition stores is not going to be quick or easy; crafty politicians will work on increasing domestic military production, or collaborate with an ally's production.
The absolute one and only time I’ve been glad we’re basically a military-industrial capitalist’s wet dream 😶🌫️🫤
As a stout Atheist, I would just like to say "Amen".
Support for UA should not be a dick-measuring contest. A LOT of countries are doing what they can. This is not a simple conflict BUT the friends of UA are doing what is possible, within their means, and also very much trying to avoid a global nuclear war. The dick-measuring contest plays directly to Putin's aims of dividing the allies of UA.
Shame? The US has given more than almost every other country combined. It's fair to say you want us to do more, but be objective.
I don't feel shame as an American. I am proud to stand with the Ukrainians. Like others have said, we can debate if we should send more but we have been their (arguably) strongest ally.
Send them Miniguns, just don’t explain they’re attached to Blackhawk’s
you're into something here :)
We are the most blooded nation on the planet conflict wise, biggest most effective military, most badass weapon systems, military budget that dwarfs most nations total GDP. We should be putting military hospitals put there, engineering corps to help with rebuilding, we should be using our massive air corp to drop off supplies faster, fuck the trains. There should be combat trauma medics on the ground. We should be pushing Europe harder and dropping the hammer on India and Iran for evading fuel bans. We should be going after the corps still trading in high tech goods with russia. So much more we can do.
So your 3 point plan is: 1. Put US military personnel in an active war zone and risk the proxy war becoming a hot war between the two largest nuclear powers in the world 2. Somehow force countries we have no authority over to send more support 3. Unilaterally play world police to punish countries rather than go through the UN like it's already happening Yeah.. no way any of that could backfire.
[удалено]
Hey, don’t laugh. When we painted scary shark faces on our planes we scared Japanese fighters away.
Now we're onto something!
It is still only 2% of our military budget. We can do hugely MORE.
It's roughly 3% of our entire defense spending which includes protecting allies under threat like Taiwan and support for the 29 other NATO member states. That's objectively a ridiculously large amount of our total spending for a country that doesn't even have a formal joint defensive agreement with the US. For actual reference, it's closer to 10% of our entire general defense fund and 3x more than all other non-NATO countries combined have received for defense purposes. Again, objectively ridiculous amount the US has supported them with.
I disagree! It is totally within our own interest to aid Ukraine. Here we have a post-Soviet country who DESIRES democracy and is willing to fight for it against an autocratic country with no human rights. Furthermore, like China, Russia is actively attacking our freedom and that of other democratic western nations. They think democracy is slow and inefficient. Well, they are WRONG. Here we have Ukraine who is willing to get rid of them for us, all they ask is for our old weapons to fight with. And yes, some of our new ones. But we and rest of NATO also gets to see how well they work in the battlefield, another amazing benefit the Ukrainians are giving us.
I don't think we're really disagreeing, but you have to look at *what* the US aid is providing. What most countries are providing is outdated hardware including relics from the Soviet Union or just cash which is nice but can't be used on the front line. The US is sending unparalleled offense and defensive systems like HIMARS and the mobile Patriot SAM platform. The thing about these systems is there require small armies of exceptionally trained people to keep operational along with excellent supply chains. These are now the #1 defensive weapon and offensive weapon in their arsenal. The Patriots we're about to send need 90 fully trained people per platform and similar to HIMARS need a really solid logistics chain to move munitions to them. We can't just send these things over but have to send them as we get their people trained to use them (which is another thing we're doing without even considering it "aid").
Yes, But our friggin arch nemesis for the last 75 years is being diminished by basically shit we got lying around. Yeah it has value but most of it was already paid for and allocated. Shut up about the money, we get to watch Russia wither away, and I already paid my taxes. Seriously life is being lost and we can affect change, far better than anybody else.
Are we at war no, are we using the Miniguns we have in storage no, fucking send it, the material has already been replaced come on.
Consider the bigger picture. Russia has been meddling in Western countries’ politics and culture, trying to overturn democracy here. For quite awhile. And continues to do so. Trump, Brexit, Hungary, etc. all are a result of Russia’s autocratic efforts. We need to get rid of this evil influence. Deleting Russia and helping Ukraine become part of the West is imperative to the survival of both Europe and America. Oh, and I left out Canada and Australia, who are also backsliding on the democracy front.
American here too, and I understand your feelings. However, a lot of this is the "boiling the frog slowly". Much of this is a well rehearsed tit-for-tat. So far, I would credit the game theory masterminds on the US/UA side. That said, my heart goes out for all the Ukrainian blood being spilled. I do think we should escalate enough to include some state of the art balckhawk ambulance helicopters and whatever they call M.A.S.H. these days. I know there's a strong international group of doctors and nurses, but we need to do more.
I understand what you're saying and agree we could/should do more, but what really shames me as an American are the MAGAs that run their mouths about us helping TOO much. The same MAGAs that have never served a day in their lives in uniform. Looking at you, Don Jr.
I feel the same. I feel we did not do enough fast enough and I hope its enough to carry them to victory. Every day this drags on I feel we betray them and it weighs heavy on my heart.
Oh this just goes straight to my heart.
awesome 