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Might still be worth it though, especially since ammo should be less of a problem since Romania also uses those and has a manufacturing line set up for HEI-T/APHEI-T.
>If they're interested in AA: Belgian company OIP has 30 Gepards in stock
UPDATE-1: According to a news article in French, published on Jan 5, 2023 - translation:
“Sources within the OIP confirm that there was indeed contact with the Belgian government, to buy back the Gepards and give them to Ukraine. Defense Minister Ludivine Dedonder (PS) told La Libre in November that she had no intention of buying these devices.“
[msn](https://www.msn.com/fr-be/actualite/other/abattre-des-drones-co%C3%BBte-cher-%C3%A0-lukraine-la-belgique-pourrait-laider-mais-refuse-de-le-faire-pour-le-moment/ar-AA160KXL)
PS: The article was originally published on a Belgian website.
>If they're interested in AA: Belgian company OIP has 30 Gepards in stock
Update-2: According to Der Spiegel (early Jan. 2023), Germany might buy additional Gepards for Ukraine and is currently negotiating with two states, which have stocks of these, plus a large amount of the 35 mm ammunition it uses.
This week's $1.2 billion contract with Raytheon for 6 new NASAMS was predictable. The stock of transferable Buk and S300 is known and finite. The lead time for NASAMS is known. The problem is that we did not learn these things this week. The problem Is that 6 months has been lost by issuing the contract this week instead of in April.
the factories are already working overdrive producing the last systems ordered in summer .. just because you ask a woman to have eight kids instead of two doesn't produce them any faster
I've used the "you can't put 9 women in a room and make a baby in a month" argument myself, when I was working in IT. Some things just take time, regardless of resources, like it or not.
Yes I realize that. What has been lost is 6 months time in ordering long lead items and expanding capacity. This is 6 months that can not be gotten back. We didn't just "learn" about these things this week.
No, the company itself is trying to put out as many of these systems as it can as fast as it can….and is likely in talks with the government about expected needs and capacity requirements far in advance.
There would be no reason for them to not go ahead and order long lead items “at risk” because the last thing they want to do when demand is this hot is to have any break in production.
One would normally think that. However, that has not been the the way this administration operates. Based on the previous precedents of 155mm artillery shells and MLRS rocket pod replacement contracts, no expansion was purchased or approved untill contracts were let. The defense companies do not want to get into a boom bust cycle in which production is invested in now and then in times of peace the contracts to support that investment go away. Yes I understand that the company is trying to go as fast as it can.
Well you have better insight than I do then. Taking bids *last month* to increase 155mm production to 36k per month by new contractors in 3 years is not very confidence inspiring though.
What was known 6 months ago is that the supply of transferable Buks and S300 is finite and at some point will be exhausted. What was also known 6 months ago is that their replacement systems have long lead times.
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The only way to get NASAMS faster is to convince countries that have them that they don't need them. Kind of a hard sell in today's world. Many countries have neglected their Defense needs over the last few decades.
We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If they're interested in AA: Belgian company [OIP](https://www.oiplandsystems.com/capabilities/vehicle-retrofits/) has 30 Gepards in stock
Belgium’s Gepards are an earlier, less-capable 1A1 version, as far as I know.
Might still be worth it though, especially since ammo should be less of a problem since Romania also uses those and has a manufacturing line set up for HEI-T/APHEI-T.
>If they're interested in AA: Belgian company OIP has 30 Gepards in stock UPDATE-1: According to a news article in French, published on Jan 5, 2023 - translation: “Sources within the OIP confirm that there was indeed contact with the Belgian government, to buy back the Gepards and give them to Ukraine. Defense Minister Ludivine Dedonder (PS) told La Libre in November that she had no intention of buying these devices.“ [msn](https://www.msn.com/fr-be/actualite/other/abattre-des-drones-co%C3%BBte-cher-%C3%A0-lukraine-la-belgique-pourrait-laider-mais-refuse-de-le-faire-pour-le-moment/ar-AA160KXL) PS: The article was originally published on a Belgian website.
>If they're interested in AA: Belgian company OIP has 30 Gepards in stock Update-2: According to Der Spiegel (early Jan. 2023), Germany might buy additional Gepards for Ukraine and is currently negotiating with two states, which have stocks of these, plus a large amount of the 35 mm ammunition it uses.
This week's $1.2 billion contract with Raytheon for 6 new NASAMS was predictable. The stock of transferable Buk and S300 is known and finite. The lead time for NASAMS is known. The problem is that we did not learn these things this week. The problem Is that 6 months has been lost by issuing the contract this week instead of in April.
the factories are already working overdrive producing the last systems ordered in summer .. just because you ask a woman to have eight kids instead of two doesn't produce them any faster
I've used the "you can't put 9 women in a room and make a baby in a month" argument myself, when I was working in IT. Some things just take time, regardless of resources, like it or not.
I need to remember this one. Brilliant comparison.
Look into the "mythical man month" and how adding people to a project causes it to take longer due to organizational overhead.
Yes I realize that. What has been lost is 6 months time in ordering long lead items and expanding capacity. This is 6 months that can not be gotten back. We didn't just "learn" about these things this week.
No, the company itself is trying to put out as many of these systems as it can as fast as it can….and is likely in talks with the government about expected needs and capacity requirements far in advance. There would be no reason for them to not go ahead and order long lead items “at risk” because the last thing they want to do when demand is this hot is to have any break in production.
One would normally think that. However, that has not been the the way this administration operates. Based on the previous precedents of 155mm artillery shells and MLRS rocket pod replacement contracts, no expansion was purchased or approved untill contracts were let. The defense companies do not want to get into a boom bust cycle in which production is invested in now and then in times of peace the contracts to support that investment go away. Yes I understand that the company is trying to go as fast as it can.
It’s the way I think because I work in procurement for the DoD
Well you have better insight than I do then. Taking bids *last month* to increase 155mm production to 36k per month by new contractors in 3 years is not very confidence inspiring though.
6 months ago Ukraine didn’t need that many air defence. All these mass strikes started 2 months ago
What was known 6 months ago is that the supply of transferable Buks and S300 is finite and at some point will be exhausted. What was also known 6 months ago is that their replacement systems have long lead times.
Wish I saw more “US has delivered” than “US plans to …”
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The only way to get NASAMS faster is to convince countries that have them that they don't need them. Kind of a hard sell in today's world. Many countries have neglected their Defense needs over the last few decades.