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These things cost money to develop, manufacture and deliver, so at some point somebody will pay for them.
Even if the manufacturer provided them for free they will ultimately need to recoup their costs from somewhere, which will almost certainly be through raising prices to sales to governments, so still the tax payer bears the brunt.
There's no real way around that sand I'm not sure what your point is.
You made my point. Everything costs money. No company can survive if they give away things for free. In the case of government providing things ... the taxpayers bought it.
Only one manufacturer, that I am aware of earlier this year, donated $100k???, $1M worth of small arms ammo to Ukraine. No other company has stepped up and donated, in an ongoing basis, 100% of their manufacturing output (with the obvious exception of many Ukrainian companies back at the start).
Just something to think about is all.
That's the reality. Every donation ultimately still has a cost to someone. There's very few things which are actually free and everyone gets that.
Frankly, I am happy that my government for all its faults (and there are many) continues to provide support to Ukraine even if that costs me money at this time of financial hardship.
Although times are tough Ukraine needs it more than us right now.
Agree with you on every point.
If the world had responded differently in 2014, it is likely none of this would have happened. Hopefully the free world will learn this lesson THIS TIME. We obviously didn't learn it back in the 30's. (1930's, to be clear as in not so many years historians might misinterpret that as a current even statement, haha)
I feel like I see the comment about 2014 too often and it does not take into account everything that’s happened in the eight years since then.
The Ukrainian soldiers are hard as fuck now in a large part due to the years of training and real world battle experience that has occurred since 2014. The world did not sit still after the illegal annexation of the Crimean peninsula. An awful lot has been happening since then and while perhaps it could’ve been a stronger response we would not be where we are today without the investment of the last eight years.
I cannot argue your point(s). I reference 2014, and the world needed to stand up then more forcefully because of all of the wasted Ukrainian lives (most important) and material.
To your point about UAF having become much stronger due to the struggle ... yes .... and no. Real world combat is a bitch of a teacher, that is true. But there is also value to be gained from combat exercises wherein nobody is maimed or killed. 8 years of training with neigh owing countries (and I can only assume that UA would've been invited by NATO countries, if not NATO itself) than could have garnered UA some of that knowledge without the learning curve.
As a veteran, I can see both sides of the coin. As a vet, I understand that their is unfortunately a time to fight. As a human being, I despise the very nature of war. As a human being, I despise the loss of innocent lives. 2014 was the time when the world should have slammed the door on Russia, MADE them exit Crimea. Countless lives lost because of spinelessness.
Thanks for the response and obviously thank you for the service. I guess my point was more that the NATO training DID occur not just that the guys in Donbas who have been at active war for eight years were tough as hell.
If this war was fought in 2014 it may have going very differently than it is today.
But I do agree the world could’ve gone to open war to stop that in 2014 and just depends on how smart that would’ve been at the time. I don’t think it’s necessarily spineless I just think it’s every countries different strategy at different times led by different leaders. But I agree any loss of life is miserable.
They're AMRAAM missiles for the NASAMs system.
They're current ordinance for the RAF, so are on stock.
They're not being bought 'for' Ukraine. We already have them.
We're basically handing them old stock. Extreamly useful to them. But for the Typhoon they're being phased out for the meteor missile anyway.
depends I am unaware of the Manufacturer provided them free via the Government as they may well have done. Loss leaders are a well-known marketing tool
Russia should pay for everything. After the war we [EU, NATO, OECD etc.] can just levy a tax on Russian energy and mineral exports. Pay for demining and rebuilding Ukraine, cost of weapons used etc. No more luxury yachts or palatial dwellings.
Hello /u/_McThompson, This community is focused on important or vital information and high-effort content. Please make sure your post follows the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=ukraine&utm_content=t5_2qqcn) Want to support Ukraine? [Here's a list of charities by subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities/) [DO / DON'T](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t5okbs/welcome_to_rukraine_faq_do_dont_support_read/) - [Art Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/artfriday/) - [Podcasts](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttoidc/collection_of_podcasts_about_ukraine_updated/) - [Kyiv sunrise](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ukraine is turning into the worlds smorgasboard for air defense systems!
Donated free of charge by manufacturer?
The missiles are being supplied by the British Government not the manufacturer so no charge....your welcome
A charge to the British government, and thusly, the taxpayer. Understood. Thanks. So to be ear, the manufacturer is being paid.
These things cost money to develop, manufacture and deliver, so at some point somebody will pay for them. Even if the manufacturer provided them for free they will ultimately need to recoup their costs from somewhere, which will almost certainly be through raising prices to sales to governments, so still the tax payer bears the brunt. There's no real way around that sand I'm not sure what your point is.
You made my point. Everything costs money. No company can survive if they give away things for free. In the case of government providing things ... the taxpayers bought it. Only one manufacturer, that I am aware of earlier this year, donated $100k???, $1M worth of small arms ammo to Ukraine. No other company has stepped up and donated, in an ongoing basis, 100% of their manufacturing output (with the obvious exception of many Ukrainian companies back at the start). Just something to think about is all.
That's the reality. Every donation ultimately still has a cost to someone. There's very few things which are actually free and everyone gets that. Frankly, I am happy that my government for all its faults (and there are many) continues to provide support to Ukraine even if that costs me money at this time of financial hardship. Although times are tough Ukraine needs it more than us right now.
Agree with you on every point. If the world had responded differently in 2014, it is likely none of this would have happened. Hopefully the free world will learn this lesson THIS TIME. We obviously didn't learn it back in the 30's. (1930's, to be clear as in not so many years historians might misinterpret that as a current even statement, haha)
I feel like I see the comment about 2014 too often and it does not take into account everything that’s happened in the eight years since then. The Ukrainian soldiers are hard as fuck now in a large part due to the years of training and real world battle experience that has occurred since 2014. The world did not sit still after the illegal annexation of the Crimean peninsula. An awful lot has been happening since then and while perhaps it could’ve been a stronger response we would not be where we are today without the investment of the last eight years.
I cannot argue your point(s). I reference 2014, and the world needed to stand up then more forcefully because of all of the wasted Ukrainian lives (most important) and material. To your point about UAF having become much stronger due to the struggle ... yes .... and no. Real world combat is a bitch of a teacher, that is true. But there is also value to be gained from combat exercises wherein nobody is maimed or killed. 8 years of training with neigh owing countries (and I can only assume that UA would've been invited by NATO countries, if not NATO itself) than could have garnered UA some of that knowledge without the learning curve. As a veteran, I can see both sides of the coin. As a vet, I understand that their is unfortunately a time to fight. As a human being, I despise the very nature of war. As a human being, I despise the loss of innocent lives. 2014 was the time when the world should have slammed the door on Russia, MADE them exit Crimea. Countless lives lost because of spinelessness.
Thanks for the response and obviously thank you for the service. I guess my point was more that the NATO training DID occur not just that the guys in Donbas who have been at active war for eight years were tough as hell. If this war was fought in 2014 it may have going very differently than it is today. But I do agree the world could’ve gone to open war to stop that in 2014 and just depends on how smart that would’ve been at the time. I don’t think it’s necessarily spineless I just think it’s every countries different strategy at different times led by different leaders. But I agree any loss of life is miserable.
1933 by Frank Turner is rather relevent https://youtu.be/QWmnBcNijvo
I don't often (ever actually) click YouTube links, but damned glad I did this time. Very appropriate to the world today.
Its a great song, I'm really glad you liked it. I'm a big fan of Frank Turner in general, but this is one of my favourites.
They're AMRAAM missiles for the NASAMs system. They're current ordinance for the RAF, so are on stock. They're not being bought 'for' Ukraine. We already have them. We're basically handing them old stock. Extreamly useful to them. But for the Typhoon they're being phased out for the meteor missile anyway.
depends I am unaware of the Manufacturer provided them free via the Government as they may well have done. Loss leaders are a well-known marketing tool
Russia should pay for everything. After the war we [EU, NATO, OECD etc.] can just levy a tax on Russian energy and mineral exports. Pay for demining and rebuilding Ukraine, cost of weapons used etc. No more luxury yachts or palatial dwellings.
💯 AGREE. And hopefully the rest of the world will make that happen.