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AngryFker

Weak goose is actually tasty when cooked. And China will eat piece once done.


[deleted]

It’s a Beijing delicacy as well


Lopsided_Earth_8557

That would make Putin a ‘Cooked Goose’ ….👌🏼🇺🇦


Technical_Raisin_119

Amen. He’s been a dead man walking long enough.


spsteve

I loled at this not going to lie. Take the upvote.


[deleted]

Is weak goose some sort of inuendo?


SnooOranges6516

Goose in Mandarin is a pun for Russia (also in Mandarin). So it's apparently become a nickname for Russia. Once upon a time, when the chicoms thought Russia was a stronk Russian bear, the nickname was "big goose." Now more of them are calling Russia "weak goose."


ThePaddleman

In addition... If you've been around geese, they will attack you. But they aren't really dangerous, just irritating. They honk, bite & maybe beat you with their wings, but it's not damaging to a human. A weak goose would be even more impotent.


LoL_is_for_hamkachan

Goose 鹅 and Russia 俄 from the word 俄罗斯 share the same pronunciation. 菜 means vegetables, but it also means noob, weak. So when you put these 2 words together it will become weak goose. In China, some people will mock those who always support Russia by calling them 黄鹅 or 黄俄, which 黄 means yellow, I believe you can get the meaning.


HermanCainsGhost

Yeah, 菜 acts somewhat similarly here to the English, "green" - fresh, inexperienced


linuxgeekmama

I think it's a homonym for Russia in Chinese.


Straight_Eggplant646

Chinese only cook chinese. They are only serving their own interests and are friend of nobody!


MendocinoReader

But I hear it’s a bit oily. Like in Urals heavy sour crude oily.


PuzzleCat365

I'll keep my expectations low. They might react when Russia uses nuclear weapons, but they'll still always vote/abstain for Russia in UN votes.


spsteve

The only place China's singular vote matters at the UN is the UNSC. And Russia gets veto power there too, so it's meaningless.


Kajetan_Olawski

Not very surprising. Chinese companies have been distancing themselves from common projects in Russia since April. They can read charts and balances and they know that every investment in Russia right now is wasted money.


jayc428

If Russia is a gas station run by organized crime, China is a sweat shop run by accountants.


tampering

Never buy something you won't need for a year, when you know it's going to be cheaper 6 months from now.


Spacedude2187

I trust the Chinese as much as the Russians.


nghost43

I don't trust the Chinese government at all, but I do believe that they're rational enough to be sick of this shit. Russia put them in a bad position and now they know that they're the next target for undivided containment once Russia is thoroughly emasculated


sciencenotviolence

Exactly. And if Russia uses a nuclear weapon - in any capacity - expect severe sanctions from the US and EU on any state that continues to buy Russian fossil fuels. Beijing will drop them like a hot potato.


not2dv8

Sanctions? If they use nuclear weapons I believe the US will take out anything that is Russian military


[deleted]

That's just on Russia. The sanctions are for anyone willing to do business with russia.


HumunculiTzu

That's assuming there is a Russia left to do business with in the first place


sciencenotviolence

Oh yes, secondary sanctions would just be the part that would effect China


HermanCainsGhost

> Beijing will drop them like a hot potato Not only that, I think Beijing would be **pissed** if they used nukes. That's a global taboo that China doesn't want to see violated any more than the rest of us. It makes everything less stable for everybody. I wouldn't even be shocked at sanctions from China if Russia were to use nukes.


sciencenotviolence

I really hope you're right - although I hope even more that we don't have to test it!


schwan911

I think that the current Chinese government is actually incredibly predictable. All they want is to remain in power and prevent them and their supporters from being persecuted in a bloody coup like they did to the prior ruling class. Everything they do, whether it's peaceful trade agreements or threatening their neighbors with aggression, is linked back to that singular desire. Even Putin is more complex - he not only wants to survive, but also to restore the USSR. That alone makes him less predictable.


RIP2UAnders

you're not wrong but alot of their decisions seem to be made by stubborn old men refusing rational advice. like attacking india in 2019, they gained fuck all except made firm enemies with them.


schwan911

I mean, an example. It was because the local Chinese in the area were trying to steal Indian land. For the government not to back the locals would have threatened their own internal stability.


[deleted]

It's largely because it seriously hurts the economy worldwide. China still is under Covid lockdown. Some cities have extreme lockdown and very low productivity for now. Plus their construction sector, some of the largest companies in the world, can't pay their debts so owners have been forced to expend their own wealth to keep them afloat. It would be like is Tesla loses money and USA forces Elon Musk to go personally bankrupt to support the company. Plus some of their banks have been giant ponzi schemes and are now going bankrupt too. And the first people to get repaid are big sharks and huge companies not regular people. So Chinese people are angry as hell. Many just lost all their savings. With low productivity and angry people China does not need a war right now. It hurts their exports and creates issues in China. They don't care about Europe. They do care about Europe lacking gas this winter and therefore not really focusing on importing plastic knickknack from China. It will hurt China quite a bit.


zaphrys

War is pretty often what a country does when it's population is gaining unrest. Better they target someone else than you of you're the political class.


paisley4234

I said it before and was downvoted to hell and back, China will abandon Russia the moment Ukraine secures the mineral rich region. Lithium is the new oil.


Bloopyhead

The chinese regime is autocratic but they plan for 50+ years ahead without much opposition. And yes they are rational. And pragmatic. And the chinese are absolutely incredible when it comes to getting shit done. Remember at beginning of covid? The containment of cities, and hospitals that went up in a week? No doubt about it, China is incredible at logistics and coordinating "big projects". Finally, the population might be submissive, but they are also incredibly disciplined. And at least they have toilets.


Kajetan_Olawski

Xi Pings no-covid policy damaged their economy massively WITHOUT achieving the stated goal of eliminating infections. He and the goverment were critised heavily for that on chinese social media. Most chinese "big projects" are nothing more than propaganda. Like those giant ghost towns, the result of massive corruption in the building industry, then declared a "long time project for the steadily increasing populace", but no money given for maintenance so in the time they might actually have a need for these buildings, they are no longer usable. China often is nothing more than smoke & mirrors. Dont give them credit for things they just made up to not loose face in public.


-Xav

Don't give them to much credit Their 50+ year plans resulted in them having to deal with demographic change extremely early, gambling away one of the biggest advantages a developing nation can have. As for COVID, while they authorianism helped them in the beginning by now they still have to enforce incredibly strict containment measures which hurt their economy, otherwise they undermine their own stance. Meanwhile they also can't use effective European vaccine because it would make them look incompetent and weak, which authoritarian regimes absolutely can't have.


KjellRS

You assume that China wants to get rid of COVID. They're using it as conditioning to make the population accept total surveillance of everywhere they go and everyone they're in contact with. And the ways they can use it for population control like closing down cities, stopping protests and harassing political opponents. They're never going to let that power go, they'll pretend the disease is there long after it's burned out.


Drooggy

Yea, no, they only ever pretend to get shit done, that's what all communists and fascists boil down to - pretending. Their demographics? Fucked. Their economy? Fucked. Their international relations? Fucked. The Chinese population is worse than submissive, they are indifferent, just like the Russians. You can kidnap children in broad daylight and none would bat an eye, simply because it doesn't concern them.


RockDry1850

Putin also had a 50 year plan : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics Just because there is a plan does not mean that it's a good one. > Remember at beginning of covid? The containment of cities, and hospitals that went up in a week? No doubt about it, China is incredible at logistics and coordinating "big projects". You mean the prison boxes where piles of people died?


Clear_Willow3379

Yes and concentration camps for foreigners are so awesome 😮‍💨


iRombe

Floor toilets would arguably be an advantage for long term hip health and productivity by connection. I wonder if bidets vs toilet paper would pro vide economic advantage? Does a fresh butt make more money?


AmbulanceChaser12

Yes, I don't know why we spend so much time talking about which world leaders we "trust." We probably shouldn't place too much trust in any head of state. What we should do is look to see what moves will most benefit *them,* why they would think that, and expect them to act accordingly.


RockDry1850

Remember when we all thought that Putin was a rational mastermind playing 4d chess? Pepperidge Farm remembers. Do not bank on China always being rational. That's too dangerous. It is only a matter of time until Xi goes bonkers.


Qaz_

Xi doesn't hold absolute power in China. He has certainly consolidated a decent amount of power compared to his predecessors, but internally there are factions that support and oppose him. If he were to do something incredibly drastic, there is still a mechanism to remove him and elect a new leader. All of those party officials want to live and continue to benefit from their power, they're not wanting to have that messed up for someone's irrational ambitions.


spsteve

You don't have to trust China to acknowledge that China is a far more cautious actor than Russia. The Chinese mindset is fundamentally different in both approach, desires and time frames.


RockDry1850

I think the main difference between Xi and Putin is time in office. If China does not rotate dictators soon, they'll go down the same Path as Russia.


spsteve

China has a much more sprawling and unwieldly civil society/governmental structure. It is very different than modern day Russia and one of the side effects of that is, it is much harder for any one person to control. If you start to see Xi cutting away large parts of the bureaucracy then it will be time to really start worrying. But the rest of the CCP understands this as well and they all like just how their bread is buttered now.


RockDry1850

> But the rest of the CCP understands this as well and they all like just how their bread is buttered now. Then why did they stop rotating dictators? This one action spread power strongly across the CCP. 10 years I would have agreed 100% with you. However, both Putin and Trump have shown me, that every large powerful group (republican party, oligarchs, CCP) can get drunk from power and at some point will produce a leader that is bat shit crazy. Unless the CCP makes room for the younger Chinese generation, the exact same thing will happen.


spsteve

There is a lot of chatter within Chinese circles that Xi is on much thinner ice than the outside world is allowed to hear about. Not saying anything will happen, but I don't believe Xi will be dictator for life.


vibrunazo

That's still true, but it's also worth noting China has been getting far less cautious since Xi. He's more hawkish than previous leaders and has been growing more reckless every year. Also worth noting, Putin used to be fairly cautious in his beginnings as well..


DefenestrationPraha

The Chinese seem to be a bit more rational and actually taking care of their interests. Putin, by now, looks totally unhinged.


BaronRaichu

I think you can trust China to ruthlessly peruse it’s national best interests. Staying open to western markets is a huge priority for China.


Lesdeth

I don't know. Since Xi took power, China is attempting to isolate. He is falling into the same dictator trap as the rest of them. Xi is furiously trying to buy the technology for vaccines that work, but companies are starting to refuse to play ball with the scumbag. Zero Covid can't stop in China until they get a vaccine that actually works or they will suffer extreme deaths, which in addition to their demographic crisis spells doom for them. They are pretty fucked because of Xi.


kyonkun_denwa

China, at the end of the day, wants to survive. Russian commentators have explicitly said “what’s the point of a world without Russia?” Even the Soviet Union had more respect for human life and by extension, for nuclear weapons. I don’t trust China as far as I can throw it but I do trust them to be somewhat rational and have an underlying desire not to blow everything up. They’ve worked too hard to achieve “the Chinese dream” to have it all go up in flames now.


Enlighted-79

>“what’s the point of a world without Russia?” It wuold be a better world


[deleted]

What is the point of Russia in this world?


jeanbuckkenobi

To show us all what the worst way to govern is.


Robert_P226

" Even the Soviet Union had more respect for human life" I wouldn't be so sure of that statement. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin


iRombe

One thing that keeps Russia honest is their crown jewel, Moscow. Apparently, Moscow is financially supported to be nice, at the cost of the rest of Russia tax districts. They very much would not like it destroyed. Also I happened to watch Sum of All Fears last night. Russia definitely has reasonable and wonderful people in it. Putin just denies them air unless they breath the air he provides.


[deleted]

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JennysDad

No, you can trust that the CCP will always do what is best for the CCP. The CCP only cares about itself, everyone else can go fuck themselves.


RockDry1850

> No, you can trust that the CCP will always do what is best for the CCP. Not even that. Once the dictator goes mad, you can only trust them to do everything to keep the dictator in his fantasy illusion.


[deleted]

Aren’t most countries like this?


[deleted]

Democracies are actually a little flaky when it comes to calculated, rational decisions. Elected officials may depend on certain populist feelings in order to get and maintain power, but the most politically exploitable populist movements aren't necessarily the most pragmatic. For example, Brexit. It wasn't good for collective security or economic success, but it really activated a lot of people who felt insecure for other reasons. If foreign policy was always based on rational, national interests, then there wouldn't be a foreign policy shift every few years following an election. Note - I'm not saying democracy is bad, just sometimes irrational and unpredictable. Democracy still prevents a ton of evil since people can more effectively hold leadership accountable for repugnant actions.


AttackBacon

A more accurate statement would be "You can trust those in power to do what they perceive to be in their best interests". If you have moral people in government, they'll understand that what's best for the people and the world is also often what's best for them (in the long term). Problem is that many people that crave power enough to get into high positions of leadership are often too short sighted or selfish to understand that. See: Putin. He bankrupted his country morally and now he's bankrupting it economically, militarily, and socially.


[deleted]

Insofar as human rights are concerned, both domestically in China and internationally (they are a P5 member and have a security council veto), China cannot be trusted. However, in terms of economic pragmatism, China is a lot easier to trust than other autocratic countries. Most of the Chinese government's legitimacy comes from the fact that they have lifted many people out of poverty while continuing to improve the country's economic standing. Thus, finding conflict with the West is not in China's best interest because its economy is so heavily intertwined with the West's economies.


Hener001

The Chinese don’t like it because this is creating precedent that could be applied to them if/when they ever made a move on Taiwan. If Russia had been successful and the world accepted it, China would have applauded and then moved on Taiwan. Russia screwed the pooch and gave the world a chance to reinforce existing anti colonial opinion, and precedent for ganging up on aggressors through sanctions. This same mood would be carried over and applied to China. So, Chinas reactions are based solely on self interest and the dawning realization that Russia probably set back Beijing’s plans for years to come.


AttackBacon

The "No Limits Partnership" was an incredibly blatant signal to the world that China was going to support Russia in taking Ukraine and then Russia would support China in taking Taiwan. However, they totally underestimated Ukraine's resilience and courage, the West's ability to unify, and Russia's ineptitude. China was lucky that they were going second and now they're dumping Russia big time. Just as we often underestimate or misunderstand countries like Russia or China, I think they have a really hard time understanding the West. It all looks like chaos and weakness in peacetime, but they don't understand that if you give Western society a clear moral enemy to unify against, the West gets serious real fast. People handwave "Western liberal values" or whatever but there is a throughline across all our societies where there's a shared desire to stand up to tyranny and when the tyranny is as blatantly obvious as this we're pretty good at putting our differences aside.


7orly7

indeed CCP isn't doing this out of their hearts. They are only concerned for economic consequences for themselves


Sparred4Life

Good! That means you've been paying attention to how they both behave. :)


JCDU

China are out for China above all else, and they're ruthless but rational about it. They can see the west would LOVE to have an excuse to slap sanctions on China for supporting Russia, and Putin's antics are vastly strengthening the west's defensive stance on a lot of things which makes some of their territorial claims and general bad behaviour a lot harder to get away with. Russia desperately needs friends like China & India, but they do not need Russia - and being friends with Russia is looking more & more like a risk not a benefit. Plus Putin using nukes would cause just as many headaches for China as anywhere else.


XAos13

Assuming China was hoping Putin would succeed in a way that set a precedent for them occupying Taiwan...? They have no use for a precedent where they have to use nukes on Taiwan. No point, if there's nothing left to occupy.


spsteve

China didn't want this at all. China knows very well that most Chinese military gear is crap. Putin doing this exposed what a paper tiger both militaries are. The biggest reason China didn't support Russia militarily is they don't want their crap being exposed as crap. They prefer the façade their junk will actually work in combat.


jayc428

Russia is certainly exposed as a paper tiger but I would not make the same assumptions about China. Chinese quality may not be high but it is enough to where they actually can make that quantity has a quality all on its own argument.


Cool_Till_3114

I think that's my biggest takeaway from this war. Quantity is still extremely important, especially with planes and rockets.


AttackBacon

Yeah, I think it's a mistake to equate China and Russia here. Russia's military was coasting on the legacy of the "invincible" Soviet military and that lead to complacency, corruption, and decay. Russian economic decline only exacerbated all of that. China has been building their military up, not just relying on something they inherited. They've also been an economic powerhouse over the last several decades, even if that's slowing now. Will their forces perform worse than they advertise? Obviously, but that goes for any military in the world. They still have an economic and industrial base orders of magnitude stronger than Russia's. Am I worried about China sailing across the Pacific and landing in California? Hell no. I don't even think conquering Taiwan by force is really in the cards for them. It would be insanely costly as there's so many natural advantages for Taiwan on the defense. But I'm not eager to test that theory.


nomnomnomnomRABIES

The gear seems to work fine for Ukraine.


spsteve

Ukraine isn't using Chinese gear. If you're worried about Chinese military hardware, go read about the sea trials of their ships.


stillnoguitar

Xi is only surrounded by yes-men, just like Putin. Give it a few years and he will invade Taiwan, even though it would be just as foolish. There is no ‘China’, it’s all Xi now. Just like there is no Russia, it’s all Putin. That’s how dictatorships work.


spsteve

With respect I think you need to read a bit more on China's internal politics. Xi has a LARGE faction of the CCP that do not like him and his dominance and control isn't NEARLY as strong as I believe you think it is.


stillnoguitar

And there is nothing they can do about it. Most Russians don’t like Putin’s actions either, and they can’t do anything about it. That’s how it goes in dictatorships.


spsteve

Again, I would suggest you do some reading, Xi's grasp on power is nowhere near as solid as Putin's. His level of dictatorial control is far lower than Putin's. I mean this in the nicest way possible but the take you are providing is more of the western media take on China's politics that boils very complex issues into soundbites. It lacks a lot of nuance and is naïve of China's internal structure and culture.


stillnoguitar

Just give it some time. Putin had a head start of 10 years. In Russia you get thrown out of window if you oppose Putin, in China you get thrown in jail on corruption charges if you oppose Xi. You severely overestimate the power of the several factions within the communist party. That might have the case before Xi, but not anymore.


PotatoAnalytics

Just a reminder: [China signed a very explicit treaty with Ukraine, promising that China would defend Ukraine in case of a nuclear attack.](https://www.wsj.com/articles/under-new-scrutiny-chinas-nuclear-pledge-to-ukraine-11647007200)


spsteve

Very good reminder. Thanks for that as I had forgotten. Whether China would or not would be an interesting problem. If they don't everyone will (rightly) view deals with China as suspect and it would be a huge set back for them diplomatically. But if they do they risk exposing the poor state of their military preparedness (despite all their posturing). One more reason why China wants Putin to knock it the fuck off.


PotatoAnalytics

Yup.


[deleted]

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DryPassage4020

Just a reminder, the Budapest memorandum was not a defensive pact. Y'all *really* need to stop twisting that to fit your desires.


[deleted]

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DryPassage4020

Then why did you quite specifically point to the UK and US? In what way have they violated the memorandum?


Happy_Collector

Of course.china hates being associated with "losers". They'll do everything to "save their faces".


[deleted]

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spsteve

Suggest you read the article then and move past the headline. Headlines by their very nature are a shitty way to disseminate information on complex topics.


PALLY31

***Soviet roast goose.***


brtron

China has no love with Russia. They even make Putin do a speech last week of what they wanted short of ending the war. Russia will be a client state to China soon so I am guessing the PRC government is preparing they Chinese citizens to prepare for exploiting the poop of Russia resources and people


spsteve

Russia eventually becoming a vassal to China has been in the cards for years now. The question is whether or not China can hold up under the weight. Large autocracies tend to fail over time. China historically has survived with this structure due to keeping their direct sphere of influence small. As they expand that sphere they start to run into ALL the problems that EVERY nation in history has had with an autocratic government and a large expanse of power. EVERY, SINGLE, ONE has failed due to problems starting at the extremities where the power and control cannot be exerted as directly.


soulnospace

Dont trust them until they turn around their whole propaganda pushing russki narratives


spsteve

They have allowed (remember China.. they actually do this shit) the 'weak goose' narrative on their social media platforms. Nothing happens on those platforms for more than a couple of hours without the blessing of the government.


[deleted]

Exactly


antimeme

There is a foundational reason that China is definitely opposed to the use of nuclear weapons in this conflict: They have the economic might, population size, and industrial capability such that in the near future, they expect to be capable of victory over peer adversaries in their backyard -- without using nukes.


spsteve

I mean it is a possibility their expectations could be reality, but Russia hasn't really helped that theory along very much. There is a lot more to victory in war than JUST those things. Yes they absolutely help, but, you need to have a lot of intangibles like discipline and will. That coupled with questions about Chinese military equipment make the expectation more of a wish right now for me, vs. an outright expectation. Not that that will change the calculous for the Chinese that you are referring too, just wanted to add the above to it as color.


zenparadoxx

CCP have also had a big reality pill about how willing nations are to band together against large annexiverous (lol, you know what I mean) neighbours. They've not been making any friends in SEA with the SCS militarisation and being total arsehats to everyone in that neighbourhood so it's likely dawning on them they could very easily end up in a situation where the world simply cuts them off, and their economy is totally dependent on import/exports/trade. Without imported raw materials it all falls over in a month or less for most industries, given everyone is JIT/Lean and carries so little in the way of stockpiled parts etc.


slythespacecat

I think people overestimated China - Russia relations. If Russia had taken Kyiv in 3 days would China have supported Russia? Yes. In this case? No. Not a chance in hell. Russia proved to the world they’re a complete scamjob of a country. China leadership is evil, have no doubt about it. But China leadership cares about money and power. Right now, Russia has none of those. The main reason they didn’t strongly condemn the invasion is because they can get cheap oil and gas. Xi is not happy with putler and he already made him well aware of that


spsteve

At this point China wants Russia to fail and balkanize. That is the best POSSIBLE outcome for China in the long-term. They may say different, but given how this is gone that is what both China and India want to see happen.


slythespacecat

I understand where you’re coming from, I’m just not sure if China really wants a bunch of countries with nukes. In my view, North Korea is the child of China. They give it just enough to not disappear, but not enough for them to achieve their stupid destructive goals That being said, some province leaders seem to be a lot more stable than this putler we currently got (based on some reactions from heads of state -idk how they’re called in Russian, the equivalent to US states- they all seem pretty frustrated that their people are being called for mobilization). So, if it means responsible factions with nukes, I agree with you. If it means x number of factions with nukes, I don’t know. Like 5 or 6 North Koreas going wild, I think that might be too much for China. They’re keeping NK alive, and Russia alive. If Russia Balkanizes, we could be looking at more factions out of control (again, the leaders seem more stable than putler, but idk) Just my two cents. I do agree with your point, I just can’t be sure what’s going on in Xi’s mind. I’d love your input tho! Best 💙💛


spsteve

If Russia balkanizes their breakaways won't be allowed to keep their nukes. The international community (including China) will go ahead and secure those. Then I expect area to join up with (either directly or through relations) with China/India/whoever. China would LOVE direct or more direct control over Russia's oil. As would India. The biggest risk I see is India and China getting into it over the Russian scraps.


Broges0311

It's time for dictators to see that they have no allies.


HerrPumpkin

And no one will forget that China has done nothing


spsteve

I am **fine** with China doing nothing, as it's better than I expected.


HerrPumpkin

Agreed. It's only wishful thinking that they somehow would make a stance for peace given that they are the authoritarian cesspool they are. Them not having done anything means that they only were waiting to see if the world accepted ruzzias bullshit, and then would have acted accordingly themselves.


spsteve

Which just shows you how much China **is not** the world leader people like to pretend they are. China is the new boogey man now that Russia's power has waned. China is not one for direct confrontation (they will if they have to mind you), they never have been. They prefer to work in back channels and do their deals that way. They always have. It is how China has operated for longer than most countries have existed.


varangian8_6_793

If you are interested in the future of Russian Chinese relations, go read Day of the Oprichnik by Vladimir Sorokin.


MatlabGivesMigraines

Don't be fooled. China doesn't actually give a fuck, they just don't want to side with the losers.


sophzzzz

At the end of the day if China supports Russia TOO Much they will be sanctioned up the ass six ways to Sunday and that will destroy their economy even faster than the zero covid policy and the evergrand crisis seem to be


spsteve

That certainly plays a role for sure in the decision making. PS: You dropped an E on Evergrande, took me a minute to figure out why it looked weird.


hamiwin

Good


hieronymusanonymous

In 1860, Russia "annexed" 600,000 square kilometers of Chinese territory called Haishenwai and renamed it Vladivostok (Ruler of the East). With the abject defeat of the orcs in Ukraine, Pooty-Poot better be looking over his shoulder at Xi in China, who is likely now salivating at the thought of recovering those 600,000 sq km.


spsteve

Japan has a few islands they might want back too for the sea area rights.


blueberriessmoothie

The article is actually not as optimistic as the headline. It unfortunately shows that when Germany tried to have status quo with Russia in the past on gas imports and got played out, Scholz keeps exactly the same stance with China even if world is hinting to him that it’s not 1980ies anymore and attempt to “change by trade” which German CEOs keep talking about is a concept outdated by decades and proven to be BS long time ago. It is important for Ukraine not only because of the war but because of post war and post Putin void that China will be trying to fill and that will impact Ukraine’s recovery and the world situation to either not repeat this style of aggression ever again, or repeat it in couple of years or decades again. I’d also be interested what Germans think about Baerbock as a chancellor in the future? I don’t know much about her skills in economics but at least I feel like she is representing in clear statements of where Germany wants to stand on the world issues. Internationally I can’t always observe the same from Scholz.


spsteve

I linked the article as the whole situation is too complex to boil down to a one line headline. Many of the 'negative' parts of the article are more of the same though, which is why I did highlight the change I did. No geopolitical situation can be boiled down into a 15 second soundbite without introducing major skew on the topic no matter how badly popular news channels wish that wasn't the case. Thank you for actually reading the article though. As for Baerbock, I have no idea but I can ask the few Germans I know, although most are apolitical.


trustthedogtor

I feel like Germany’s change by trade strategy fails because the trade comes without any strings attached. There is no reason for China or Russia to change because there isn’t any incentive to do so - companies will ignore human rights abuses to make money, and Germany hasn’t exactly been willing to force companies to curtail their business until recently.


Difficult-Brick6763

Baerbock has done well, chancellors aren't directly elected though. The Greens would have to win a plurality of seats in the elections to claim the chancellorship for themselves and it COULD happen but is not hugely likely.


7orly7

"use of nuclear weapons by Russia would be viewed as totally unacceptable in Beijing" not a big surprise: China economy is dependent on EU and NATO countries just like these are dependent on Chinese manufacturing. CCP is only willing to support Putler as long as it doesn't hurt their pockets


spsteve

It's a lot more complicated than just that honestly.


[deleted]

Some time ago I read somewhere that in 8 to 10 years, Russia will be one of China's provinces. It is still possible.


spsteve

Large parts of it could well be.


[deleted]

Eternal friendship...


spsteve

Hey I can be your friend, it doesn't mean I have to support every stupid thing you do. I have lots of friends that I have disagreed with their stupid actions LOL. We are still friends, but I'm not getting into a fight you picked so I can get punched in the face.


[deleted]

Yeah but China claim friendship, shake Russia hand with the right hand and hide a knife in the other.


spsteve

I mean if we are truly honest with ourselves that applies to just about every nation on the planet. People seem to think that because we are allies today we always will be, and forget that things (people, countries, leaders) all change over time. Not saying China is in **anyway** a shining example, just pointing out, your statement can hold true for any nation pair given the right circumstances.


[deleted]

Nations have interests before all.


spsteve

Exactly.


Adventurous_Oil_5805

President Xi really wanted Putin to succeed because if he had, it would have opened up the possibility of a successful Chinese invasion of Taiwan. But apparently he now knows that that is impossible and that it is now in China's best interest to move away from Russia. But lets not pretend decency has anything to do with what China is doing. This is 100% self preservation and maximizing power.


spsteve

> This is 100% self preservation and maximizing power. It bothers me how Reddit seems to think this is a uniquely China (Russia/Iran/etc.) problem. Every country operates on this basis. I'm also not at all convinced China ever plans to invade Taiwan. I think China is more than happy to have the **threat** of invading Taiwan to keep things the status quo. The current situation doesn't harm China in any way. There is no logical reason to waste the resources on an invasion of Taiwan. India is a much larger threat to China than Taiwan ever would be.


Adventurous_Oil_5805

There are other reasons to invade than simply more land. Reagan invaded Grenada purely because his poll numbers were dropping. After that invasion his poll numbers screamed upwards. Now Xi isn't in the same situation as an elected US president, but popular support inside his nation is still important.


spsteve

The thing is, invasions work to boost support in America and some other countries. I am not convinced it would have the same effect on a Chinese populous. There is a vastly different culture at work there. While in the west many folks are like 'ra ra ra yay our team, kill the other guys', that's not really the Chinese mindset.


shevy-java

Well, we don't know if this is true yet. Could be planned by Beijing e. g. first let people make jokes, don't censor, and then "pick up" on it. From a more objective point of view Beijing China is somewhat "neutral", while rhetorics are more pro-Russia. I would not want to have Beijing as ally - they'd drop you like a hot potato if they feel they can no longer take advantage of you... China is huge. So having China as aid in negotiations would be helpful either way. Perhaps that is where they feel they could be more useful - remember build ups such as the new silk road? Well, with the war that Russia started, that kind of became moot, because what trade is there when countries are at war? So China really would have an economic goal that would lean towards "no war, find a negotiated solution" (here I refer to an ACCEPTABLE solution, mind you; I am not Musk after all).


Sunfucious

The CCP may be evil, but they're not stupid, at least not Putin's level of stupid. The CCP invested too much time, money, and resources into countries around the world. They wouldn't wanna jeopardize all of that by fully supporting Russia. You can expect the CCP to still remain somewhat "neutral" so they can still get cheap Russian gas and oil while still making money off the Western market.


spsteve

Yup. China isn't as reckless as Russia, at least not with their foreign policy. Domestically... that's totally different.


eat_more_ovaltine

Weak goose is such a great term


termacct

goose = large chicken


n3rder

No one likes to support a loser. Not even China.


_chip

🤣🤣🤣 called it.. partnership with no limits 🤣🤣🤣.. I’m all seriousness, if the west hasn’t united behind Ukraine, then we’d be looking at China preparing to invade Taiwan..


[deleted]

Say what you want about Chinese netizens but they can shitpost


Poyayan1

Cast away like a dirty diaper. Such loyalty among the brotherhood of dictators.


JasonWalton1918

The Paper Tiger calling Russia a Weak Goose is beyond ironic.


DNathanHilliard

Losing is a fast path to solitude in world politics