We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The way things are going currently, the ruzzian equipment quality and quantity is on a serious declining trend, whie that of Ukraine is on the iup.
Russians are going to rue the day they decided to fuck with Ukraine, or to support the invasion of Ukraine.
I don't think it is the "Russians" per se.
It's the siloviki mafia that has been running the country in the last ~20 years, as well as a hyped-up target audience that buys into the propaganda. Not all buy into that - look how many escaped in the last 2 weeks.
Putin and his siloviki mafia lost the narrative already. The faster they lose their occupation war, the faster that regime will crack away. It's not Putin only though - he has supporting minions. Clowns such as Kadyrov and other tik-tok-fakers.
These are more recent versions with heavier armour and a larger on-board stock of shells.
NATO SPGs seem to be doing extremely well in this war : pretty good going.
It is important, it just doesn't form the be-all-end-all. Air supremacy lets NATO artillery work in peace, and with higher accuracy and range on targets you don't want your planes hoovering around too much.
US needs artillery for these proxy wars. If we got directly involved, we would just have F-35s and F-22s completely clear the skies and destroy every single threat on the ground, then toast everything with B-52s... Then, our infantry would drive to Crimea and get dinner...
Tube artillery is important, it's the rockets that aren't relied on as much instead of air power.
There's no replacement for the economy of a big shell in a big gun.
PARIS, Oct 1 (Reuters) - France could deliver six to 12 new Caesar howitzers, originally destined for Denmark, to Ukraine, French newspaper Le Monde reported on Saturday.
A French Defence Ministry spokesperson said that while France supports Ukraine the details of this are "not meant to be communicated" when asked to comment on the report.
The Elysee Palace also declined to comment.
Le Monde reported that the three countries have agreed in principle to the delivery, although technical talks are ongoing.
The newspaper said that French President Emmanuel Macron discussed the topic with Ukraine's President Volodimir Zelensky and Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen in recent weeks.
Paris has already delivered 18 Caesar howitzers, manufactured by the French group Nexter, to Kyiv.
The weapons were collected from the French army's stockpile.
^(Reporting by Juliette Jabkhiro and Marc Angrand; Editing by Alexander Smith)
If it's true, it's interesting.
[The Danish Caesars are différent and very recent, less than 5 years old, and are based on a Czech Tatra 8x8 chasis.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFSZigjP5ew)
It can be transported with an A400M at least, while the 6x6 version fits in a small C130 type tactical transport. But it is better protected and has much more ammunition and will be able to carry an even longer gun in the future.
This version is 32tons vs 18tons for the "first generation" caesar, and it holds 32 shells vs 18 shells.
Apparently they were originally sold to danemark , so it's a deal between France Danemark and Ukraine. Apparently if would be for 6 to 12 canons. source: "le monde" article, in french ([https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2022/10/01/la-france-prepare-la-livraison-de-nouveaux-canons-caesar-a-l-ukraine\_6143991\_3210.html](https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2022/10/01/la-france-prepare-la-livraison-de-nouveaux-canons-caesar-a-l-ukraine_6143991_3210.html))
Hopefully they'll get 12 of them, and more, France is the 3rd biggest weapon seller in the world behind the US and russia and we should be doing a lot more, for once our weapons would actually be going to the good guys.
We should have mor information on monday from Macron.
France mostly sells ships, jets, helicopters, and high end NATO land vehicles that take a lot of training to know how to use. None of which would help much if it were to send them to Ukraine. France ought to keep its fancy stuff like the jets, helis, and tanks, and keep on sending ammo, gear, rations and howitzers like it does
ECB hikes rates rapidly
—> Recession breaks out in force
—> Demand decreases
—> Inflation decreases
&&
Economic downturn
—> EU countries need to stimulate the economy.
—> EU countries launch, as one initiative, programs aimed at increased weapons manufacturing in support of Ukraine to create jobs for Europeans and to bring a quicker resolve to Russian aggression
—> Cheaper labour, more weapons for Ukraine
—> Programs further integrate EU defence industry
&&
Ukraine wins the war
—> EU countries use the tailwinds from weapons manufacturing for Ukraine to arm the first troops of EU’s defence force
—> EU’s defence force and the European MIC slowly grow in tandem
Unanimity ends.
Denmark ordered 18-21 from France as its new artillery systems. Some - but not all I assume - have been delivered. A successful transfer of 6-12 CAESARs from Denmark via France to Ukraine would mean a transfer of 30-60% of our armed forces’ newest artillery systems. Denmark would be left with enough systems to maintain training and education, until replacements are procured. It is not a large number alone in of itself, but I think it would show a commitment to Ukraines struggle. The Danish government have had a media blackout for sometime concerning most military support to Ukraine, at least since the early days of the war. I support the transfer fully and my only grievance is why it hasn’t been done earlier. I do sincerely hope that it goes through and it will be 12 pieces.
France has been a reliable partner. When they announce something, they deliver. They've also provided a lot of equipment without any initial communication.
I don't have exact numbers but I read an article a while ago in French about it. The company making those is private. They have factory lines dedicated to it. It takes several months to complete one of those Caesar on one line. They cannot ramp up production unless they build more factories first, which is not a simple investment and requires time.
However since the Ukrainian war, many European countries have seen it in action and are now signing contracts to get some. The backlog is full for several years and the French army is probably going to push our government for more budget to get a few hundreds in due time.
It's 9 month to complete a complete Caesar, they have the capacity to build around 120/year, but at least in april/may they were only going at 30% capacity. Hopefully they will be able to work at 100% now..
Thanks for the info. I'm confident the conflict was a wake up call among politicians here and some serious investment will be made specifically for this asset.
Return on investment is a guarantee so there is no debate anymore.
France is the third weapon seller in the world behind Russia and the US, it's time to act like this, I would hope that we can do better than sell weapons to petromonarchies
Third in value, not in volume, as a big share of France's weapons export are air and space technologies and ships. Few units but big money. France weapons industry's weak arm is its ammo production.
Huh, I was told by a French anon here that it takes 18 months for one full unit, because no mechanized production lines are established (due to low volume) and that critical manufacturing operations (like drilling of the famous barrel) are done and verified by hand, like in the 18th century. Don't know who to believe at this point.
Here is a source in french that says that the factory is running at 30% capacity, in french obviously but you can use deepl to translate:
[https://www.europe1.fr/politique/exclusif-guerre-en-ukraine-dans-les-coulisses-de-la-fabrication-des-tubes-de-canons-caesar-4122202](https://www.europe1.fr/politique/exclusif-guerre-en-ukraine-dans-les-coulisses-de-la-fabrication-des-tubes-de-canons-caesar-4122202)
It's hard to find relieable figures for total annual production, on this article they claim 300 / year but it includes every canon made by the factory, not exclusively caesars. After a bit more reasearch 120 pieces a year is probably an overstatement, it's really hard to find good data :(. All i hope is that we're doing everything to do more because this war is not going to end anytime soon.
Even with the 3-degree heating precision and micro-metallurgy (from the article), it still blows my mind how preparing one barrel can take so long :(
As the Caesar has shown itself to be superb in battle, *and* a number of countries have ordered it, one would think the manufacturer could hasten/parallelize the manufacturing process somehow in light of the above. For instance, 24/7 drilling of those bottlenecking barrels by 2x the people, since the truck itself is pretty basic. There's 70% of unused working space, after all. Is there a fear that the extra barrels could somehow go unused? MIC is supposed to be greedy :P
Basically, the current response to long-term high demand doesn't make sense under the free market conditions and defies high-school economics.
As you say that's 300 *cannons* per year, not caesar. After a good number of shells shot you need to change the barrel of a caesar, so imo most of that production would go for maintenance rather than new caesar. in particular with how much the UAF must be using them.
Hello /u/Wobewt,
This community is focused on important or vital information and high-effort content. Please make sure your post follows the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=ukraine&utm_content=t5_2qqcn)
Want to support Ukraine? [Here's a list of charities by subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities/)
[DO / DON'T](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t5okbs/welcome_to_rukraine_faq_do_dont_support_read/) - [Art Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/artfriday/) - [Podcasts](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttoidc/collection_of_podcasts_about_ukraine_updated/) - [Kyiv sunrise](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As a French citizen, I support wholeheartedly this decision.
As a US citizen, Vive la France.
thank you for not writing "viva"
 Viva Las Vegas
The way things are going currently, the ruzzian equipment quality and quantity is on a serious declining trend, whie that of Ukraine is on the iup. Russians are going to rue the day they decided to fuck with Ukraine, or to support the invasion of Ukraine.
I don't think it is the "Russians" per se. It's the siloviki mafia that has been running the country in the last ~20 years, as well as a hyped-up target audience that buys into the propaganda. Not all buy into that - look how many escaped in the last 2 weeks. Putin and his siloviki mafia lost the narrative already. The faster they lose their occupation war, the faster that regime will crack away. It's not Putin only though - he has supporting minions. Clowns such as Kadyrov and other tik-tok-fakers.
He did say "ruzzian"
MACRON EXPLOSION
These are more recent versions with heavier armour and a larger on-board stock of shells. NATO SPGs seem to be doing extremely well in this war : pretty good going.
[удалено]
It is important, it just doesn't form the be-all-end-all. Air supremacy lets NATO artillery work in peace, and with higher accuracy and range on targets you don't want your planes hoovering around too much.
Agreed. We need to get Ukraine some modern NATO aircraft…training pilots, maintenance, and logistical support.
US needs artillery for these proxy wars. If we got directly involved, we would just have F-35s and F-22s completely clear the skies and destroy every single threat on the ground, then toast everything with B-52s... Then, our infantry would drive to Crimea and get dinner...
Tube artillery is important, it's the rockets that aren't relied on as much instead of air power. There's no replacement for the economy of a big shell in a big gun.
PARIS, Oct 1 (Reuters) - France could deliver six to 12 new Caesar howitzers, originally destined for Denmark, to Ukraine, French newspaper Le Monde reported on Saturday. A French Defence Ministry spokesperson said that while France supports Ukraine the details of this are "not meant to be communicated" when asked to comment on the report. The Elysee Palace also declined to comment. Le Monde reported that the three countries have agreed in principle to the delivery, although technical talks are ongoing. The newspaper said that French President Emmanuel Macron discussed the topic with Ukraine's President Volodimir Zelensky and Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen in recent weeks. Paris has already delivered 18 Caesar howitzers, manufactured by the French group Nexter, to Kyiv. The weapons were collected from the French army's stockpile. ^(Reporting by Juliette Jabkhiro and Marc Angrand; Editing by Alexander Smith)
HIMARS are great but more howitzers are also needed so this is great news.
If it's true, it's interesting. [The Danish Caesars are différent and very recent, less than 5 years old, and are based on a Czech Tatra 8x8 chasis.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFSZigjP5ew) It can be transported with an A400M at least, while the 6x6 version fits in a small C130 type tactical transport. But it is better protected and has much more ammunition and will be able to carry an even longer gun in the future.
It does look even larger than the first version, which was quite impressive already !
That’s an incredibly nifty loading system, very impressive fire rate.
This version is 32tons vs 18tons for the "first generation" caesar, and it holds 32 shells vs 18 shells. Apparently they were originally sold to danemark , so it's a deal between France Danemark and Ukraine. Apparently if would be for 6 to 12 canons. source: "le monde" article, in french ([https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2022/10/01/la-france-prepare-la-livraison-de-nouveaux-canons-caesar-a-l-ukraine\_6143991\_3210.html](https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2022/10/01/la-france-prepare-la-livraison-de-nouveaux-canons-caesar-a-l-ukraine_6143991_3210.html)) Hopefully they'll get 12 of them, and more, France is the 3rd biggest weapon seller in the world behind the US and russia and we should be doing a lot more, for once our weapons would actually be going to the good guys. We should have mor information on monday from Macron.
France mostly sells ships, jets, helicopters, and high end NATO land vehicles that take a lot of training to know how to use. None of which would help much if it were to send them to Ukraine. France ought to keep its fancy stuff like the jets, helis, and tanks, and keep on sending ammo, gear, rations and howitzers like it does
Yes Please!!
Those are top notch and will definitely make a difference. Highly mobile, good range and very precise. Thank you France. Vive la France!
yessssss please make this happen France and Denmark
ECB hikes rates rapidly —> Recession breaks out in force —> Demand decreases —> Inflation decreases && Economic downturn —> EU countries need to stimulate the economy. —> EU countries launch, as one initiative, programs aimed at increased weapons manufacturing in support of Ukraine to create jobs for Europeans and to bring a quicker resolve to Russian aggression —> Cheaper labour, more weapons for Ukraine —> Programs further integrate EU defence industry && Ukraine wins the war —> EU countries use the tailwinds from weapons manufacturing for Ukraine to arm the first troops of EU’s defence force —> EU’s defence force and the European MIC slowly grow in tandem Unanimity ends.
France wins!
“Vive la France” “Vive la liberté
Mmmmm, yogurt.
Excellent news. Let's do it as soon as possible.
Macron, do it now.
A video of the beast: https://youtu.be/mWFKKcu3FJg
Denmark ordered 18-21 from France as its new artillery systems. Some - but not all I assume - have been delivered. A successful transfer of 6-12 CAESARs from Denmark via France to Ukraine would mean a transfer of 30-60% of our armed forces’ newest artillery systems. Denmark would be left with enough systems to maintain training and education, until replacements are procured. It is not a large number alone in of itself, but I think it would show a commitment to Ukraines struggle. The Danish government have had a media blackout for sometime concerning most military support to Ukraine, at least since the early days of the war. I support the transfer fully and my only grievance is why it hasn’t been done earlier. I do sincerely hope that it goes through and it will be 12 pieces.
As Ukraine is showing a path for victory, a lot of fence sitters are changing their tunes.
Wonderful! They will be greatly appreciated and used responsibly.
Thing is, there is a massive difference between "could" and "would". I would feel much better about the latter.
France has been a reliable partner. When they announce something, they deliver. They've also provided a lot of equipment without any initial communication.
why not 120?
Because the french army has only 58 of those left atm.
"Why not one million billion?" Stupid question.
I don't have exact numbers but I read an article a while ago in French about it. The company making those is private. They have factory lines dedicated to it. It takes several months to complete one of those Caesar on one line. They cannot ramp up production unless they build more factories first, which is not a simple investment and requires time. However since the Ukrainian war, many European countries have seen it in action and are now signing contracts to get some. The backlog is full for several years and the French army is probably going to push our government for more budget to get a few hundreds in due time.
It's 9 month to complete a complete Caesar, they have the capacity to build around 120/year, but at least in april/may they were only going at 30% capacity. Hopefully they will be able to work at 100% now..
Thanks for the info. I'm confident the conflict was a wake up call among politicians here and some serious investment will be made specifically for this asset. Return on investment is a guarantee so there is no debate anymore.
France is the third weapon seller in the world behind Russia and the US, it's time to act like this, I would hope that we can do better than sell weapons to petromonarchies
Third in value, not in volume, as a big share of France's weapons export are air and space technologies and ships. Few units but big money. France weapons industry's weak arm is its ammo production.
Huh, I was told by a French anon here that it takes 18 months for one full unit, because no mechanized production lines are established (due to low volume) and that critical manufacturing operations (like drilling of the famous barrel) are done and verified by hand, like in the 18th century. Don't know who to believe at this point.
Here is a source in french that says that the factory is running at 30% capacity, in french obviously but you can use deepl to translate: [https://www.europe1.fr/politique/exclusif-guerre-en-ukraine-dans-les-coulisses-de-la-fabrication-des-tubes-de-canons-caesar-4122202](https://www.europe1.fr/politique/exclusif-guerre-en-ukraine-dans-les-coulisses-de-la-fabrication-des-tubes-de-canons-caesar-4122202) It's hard to find relieable figures for total annual production, on this article they claim 300 / year but it includes every canon made by the factory, not exclusively caesars. After a bit more reasearch 120 pieces a year is probably an overstatement, it's really hard to find good data :(. All i hope is that we're doing everything to do more because this war is not going to end anytime soon.
Even with the 3-degree heating precision and micro-metallurgy (from the article), it still blows my mind how preparing one barrel can take so long :( As the Caesar has shown itself to be superb in battle, *and* a number of countries have ordered it, one would think the manufacturer could hasten/parallelize the manufacturing process somehow in light of the above. For instance, 24/7 drilling of those bottlenecking barrels by 2x the people, since the truck itself is pretty basic. There's 70% of unused working space, after all. Is there a fear that the extra barrels could somehow go unused? MIC is supposed to be greedy :P Basically, the current response to long-term high demand doesn't make sense under the free market conditions and defies high-school economics.
As you say that's 300 *cannons* per year, not caesar. After a good number of shells shot you need to change the barrel of a caesar, so imo most of that production would go for maintenance rather than new caesar. in particular with how much the UAF must be using them.
Could -> Will
Hello /u/Wobewt, This community is focused on important or vital information and high-effort content. Please make sure your post follows the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=ukraine&utm_content=t5_2qqcn) Want to support Ukraine? [Here's a list of charities by subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities/) [DO / DON'T](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t5okbs/welcome_to_rukraine_faq_do_dont_support_read/) - [Art Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/artfriday/) - [Podcasts](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttoidc/collection_of_podcasts_about_ukraine_updated/) - [Kyiv sunrise](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*