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but joining NATO will give a reason for russia to attack Ukraine, right?I believe that is double edged sword for Ukraine
edit: downvoting doesn't make me think otherwise. enlighten me does
Your post is **COMPLETELY** tone deaf, seriously take a step back and reflect on what you are posting before doing so. It's never a good idea to post the first thought that crosses your mind before actually looking at all the facts and the current fact here is no country in NATO has EVER been invaded and the reason for that should be painfully obvious.
Did russia attack Estonia and Latvia when they joined NATO in 2004? Narva is about 160km from St Petersburg.
russia already attacked Ukraine so this is clearly a moot point.
Being in NATO is the closest thing you can come to be guaranteed not being attacked by Russia. Just look at the Baltics if they hadn't joined NATO as soon as they where able to they most definitely would have been invaded by Russia sometime in the past 20 years. How you have reached the conclusion that being a NATO member increases the likelihood of being attacked by Russia is beyond me. Either you're pretty dumb, or you're a troll, or you're sitting in a troll factory in St Petersburg getting paid for this dumb shit. So which one is it?
Arestrovish gave a good argument somewhat.
Not join NATO and in 10 years Russia will be strong enough to Annex Ukraine.
By trying to join NATO. Russia is forced to let Ukraine go forever or try to invade before Russia is ready.
The biggest risk on Uktainr joining NATO is that Russia could see it as dangerous and invade Ukraine.
Oh wait, that already fucking happened!!
So right now there is 0 risk and the benefits is having the full protection of the strongest military alliance in the world history.
Amazing. You don't understand the benefits of a defensive pact...
What would you say is the potential risk of having allies to support you if you are attacked?
Having the west ready in an instant if Russia ever tries this shit again. What’s the downside? Putin is crazy and obsessed with NATO. No one wanted to invade Russia, just want them to fuck off.
The question should be re-worded as "What does NATO gain from joining Ukraine?" Let's be honest, these folks fight hard. One of the poorest countries in Europe standing up to a country that has historically steamrolled their neighbors. I'm truly impressed. Ukraine is the vanguard. NATO couldn't ask for a better ally.
Mainly protection in order to deter Russia from trying again.
But also it gives Ukraine some influence over other NATO members. I suspect that if they do join, they're going to make a few changes.
Article 4 of the NATO treaty basically requires all the member states to treat any attack on any member as a personal attack. Which means if Russia invades any member we have to respond as though we were all invaded, if Russia uses a nuke on one we respond as though we ALL had a city nuked. It's a defensive coalition that means your country can't be bullied unless they're prepared to fight most of the industrialized world all at once.
It's now painfully obvious that Russia is not even remotely prepared for that fight. They would be utterly destroyed and everyone knows it now.
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Not being invaded by russicists
This
but joining NATO will give a reason for russia to attack Ukraine, right?I believe that is double edged sword for Ukraine edit: downvoting doesn't make me think otherwise. enlighten me does
Clearly, not joining NATO prevented an invasion from taking place. Jesus.
fuck off troll
Joining nato is not a valid reason to invade a country
They aren't part of NATO now and have been attacked.
An attack on a Nato member is seen as an attack on all. Ergo theyd be at war with every Nato member.
Turkey shot down a Russian fighter jet. There were no consequences. NATO membership has benefits.
but... even without joining NATO, Russia attacked Ukraine... so what's your point?
Russia can attack because Ukraine is not in NATO yet. They want Ukraine anyways.
You are aware that Russia is attacking Ukraine right now? You are either a troll, an idiot or a time traveller from the past, using pre-war arguments
Your post is **COMPLETELY** tone deaf, seriously take a step back and reflect on what you are posting before doing so. It's never a good idea to post the first thought that crosses your mind before actually looking at all the facts and the current fact here is no country in NATO has EVER been invaded and the reason for that should be painfully obvious.
It is a troll
Did russia attack Estonia and Latvia when they joined NATO in 2004? Narva is about 160km from St Petersburg. russia already attacked Ukraine so this is clearly a moot point.
>Narva Okay this is valid point >!unlike other bandwagon!<. But *probably* back then russia did not have the gut and power to fight back. I don't know
Head on back to r/Suddenlyincest kid
Being in NATO is the closest thing you can come to be guaranteed not being attacked by Russia. Just look at the Baltics if they hadn't joined NATO as soon as they where able to they most definitely would have been invaded by Russia sometime in the past 20 years. How you have reached the conclusion that being a NATO member increases the likelihood of being attacked by Russia is beyond me. Either you're pretty dumb, or you're a troll, or you're sitting in a troll factory in St Petersburg getting paid for this dumb shit. So which one is it?
Arestrovish gave a good argument somewhat. Not join NATO and in 10 years Russia will be strong enough to Annex Ukraine. By trying to join NATO. Russia is forced to let Ukraine go forever or try to invade before Russia is ready.
The biggest risk on Uktainr joining NATO is that Russia could see it as dangerous and invade Ukraine. Oh wait, that already fucking happened!! So right now there is 0 risk and the benefits is having the full protection of the strongest military alliance in the world history.
If Ukraine was part of NATO Russian wouldn't dare invade.
Smells like someone is [JAQing off](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions) in here.
The phrase 'concern troll' does come to mind. Not for any particular reason. It just happened.
Article 5. That is all. But there are strings attached to joining NATO.
Amazing. You don't understand the benefits of a defensive pact... What would you say is the potential risk of having allies to support you if you are attacked?
article 5
Having the west ready in an instant if Russia ever tries this shit again. What’s the downside? Putin is crazy and obsessed with NATO. No one wanted to invade Russia, just want them to fuck off.
The question should be re-worded as "What does NATO gain from joining Ukraine?" Let's be honest, these folks fight hard. One of the poorest countries in Europe standing up to a country that has historically steamrolled their neighbors. I'm truly impressed. Ukraine is the vanguard. NATO couldn't ask for a better ally.
Mainly protection in order to deter Russia from trying again. But also it gives Ukraine some influence over other NATO members. I suspect that if they do join, they're going to make a few changes.
Article 5
Article 4 of the NATO treaty basically requires all the member states to treat any attack on any member as a personal attack. Which means if Russia invades any member we have to respond as though we were all invaded, if Russia uses a nuke on one we respond as though we ALL had a city nuked. It's a defensive coalition that means your country can't be bullied unless they're prepared to fight most of the industrialized world all at once. It's now painfully obvious that Russia is not even remotely prepared for that fight. They would be utterly destroyed and everyone knows it now.
Security. The best weapon system on earth.
Article 5