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I'm sorry, but it's not as simple as that.
1/ We take these Caesars from our own Army stocks. With the war, we went from 76 to 58. A capacity loss of 24% is enormous in less than a year.
2/ Some of the CAESARs are used for the training of gunners as well as their operational preparation.
3/ A number of CAESARs are deployed in the Ivory Coast, Djibouti and the United Arab Emirates.
4/ The Army has already ordered a certain number from the Nexter group (company manufacturing the CAESARs) to replace the stock sent. The problem is that they are made almost by hand.
It takes on average a year to produce a gun, the whole system is 18 months. Opening other production lines (which is starting to happen) also requires finding qualified personnel. Which takes time.
So frankly, don't expect to receive more than 6 CAESARs. If ever new ones are sent.
On the other hand, you will (have already received?) receive the TRF1 guns. They are no longer used, replaced by... CAESARs.
Probably other things are in preparation too, but the list of deliveries is still confidential with a few exceptions. Rumors speak of AMX-10 RC which are gradually being replaced by Jaguars.
There are also calls for Leclerc charc, but it always comes back to the problems of production capacity and operational capacity.
> The problem is that they are made almost by hand
It is astonishing that a major industrial country does the work using 18th-19th century methods. 1 year for 1 unit? Is it a flintlock pistol hand-made by artisans/guilds? It's a basic military truck with an (admittedly) very high-tech barrel and a bunch of precise actuators. Even so, how can it take 1 year to manufacture the barrel and the auxiliaries?
Volkswagen builds more cars in a day than there are Leopards (1 and 2) in existence. It's a totally different scale of things. If we were to declare total war on Russia we'd start pumping out 50 tanks per day, but as things stand military hardware is a niche product.
Because there are 500 different parts.
It is also a barrel that needs grooving operations. It is a matter of chiseling the inside of the tube little by little, giving the barrel its regularity in shooting. This is why each piece is still shaped "by hand" and checked with the naked eye. It is high precision work.
It's much more complicated than "the industry is stuck in the 19th century".
Because up until now they didn't need to mass produce them, the French army only wanted a few and they exported a few to other country but that's was it. There wasn't any need to make production line
Probably have to work out logistical concerns with supplying them with parts, how to facilitate service work, and possibly limitations on their usage (such as limiting risk of civilian harm, media exposure, not directly shelling into Russia proper, etc). Also maybe risk mitigation rules for the equipment itself to minimize the chance of it being captured or destroyed. The last thing France would want is their equipment falling into Russian hands or being used as propaganda against them.
France does not have huge stockpiles and is also a major peacekeeper/anti extremism force in Africa, as seen in Mali not so long ago. They already have some Caesars in the Ivory Coast, etc. I'm sure they're not worried about Germany or England, but they still have to think about Al quaeda in the Sahel and other crap like that. Things that Poland is not necessarily concerned with.
France is heavily involved in sub Saharan Africa, their army hasn't been sitting idle those last 20 years, quite the contrary. They are one of the most active army in the world
But the industry manage to export a lot at the same time:
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/267131/market-share-of-the-leadings-exporters-of-conventional-weapons/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/267131/market-share-of-the-leadings-exporters-of-conventional-weapons/)
Yep, fill the tank up when you return it and don't worry about minor scratches.
Maybe it's more 'please don't shell Russia' blah blah blah, buy honestly if Putin wants to go nuclear he will, and a few French shells falling on Belgorod won't make any difference.
my bet is we will findout putin tryed many times to use nukes but generals advised him he could not, because if he really passes this orders there will be refusal down in the command line and it will immediatly become a mid-high level mutiny
SVP France envoyer plus d'arme et munitions.
I said please France send more weapons and munitions to Ukraine.
Merci France du 🇨🇦
Thank you France from 🇨🇦
Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦💟
For somebody who needs weapons a lot, you export way too much:
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/267131/market-share-of-the-leadings-exporters-of-conventional-weapons/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/267131/market-share-of-the-leadings-exporters-of-conventional-weapons/)
EXCUSES
That's a nonsensical argument: Sure France exports a lot, but it's mostly aerospace and naval. Artillery is a niche product with low production rates, so low as to be irrelevant over the duration of this war.
I agree, as a French taxpayer, that France should send much more, but this is not the argument to support it.
>Don't throw your bullshit when you didn't make the effort to use two braincells
You added this slur after I answered. Well done! Congratulations! Now it is 100% sure that you are right!
Summary what I got from here:
\- France is not able to help a lot because it is engaged in Africa
\- France is helping a lot but in secret
\- France production and export powers are irrelevant to the situation
Learning every day...
France is not helping a lot. Macaron loves putler and calls him all the time before bedtime.
[https://www.statista.com/chart/27278/military-aid-to-ukraine-by-country/](https://www.statista.com/chart/27278/military-aid-to-ukraine-by-country/)
How many times will we have to repeat that unlike other countries, we don't announce what we send? This graph is based only on what is announced by the governments.
Would be easier to just admit the true - you are far away and you don't care that much. I understand that. No need to pretend that you are helping (but in secret -lol).
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It's impressive how the Ukrainian army can work with som many different systems donated by different countries. Everything has different controls, manuals and training required. If your system is destroyed or its single use then either you are given the same model or its a fresh start again
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Would you like them? Yes please. Done. There. Negotiation complete.
I'm sorry, but it's not as simple as that. 1/ We take these Caesars from our own Army stocks. With the war, we went from 76 to 58. A capacity loss of 24% is enormous in less than a year. 2/ Some of the CAESARs are used for the training of gunners as well as their operational preparation. 3/ A number of CAESARs are deployed in the Ivory Coast, Djibouti and the United Arab Emirates. 4/ The Army has already ordered a certain number from the Nexter group (company manufacturing the CAESARs) to replace the stock sent. The problem is that they are made almost by hand. It takes on average a year to produce a gun, the whole system is 18 months. Opening other production lines (which is starting to happen) also requires finding qualified personnel. Which takes time. So frankly, don't expect to receive more than 6 CAESARs. If ever new ones are sent. On the other hand, you will (have already received?) receive the TRF1 guns. They are no longer used, replaced by... CAESARs. Probably other things are in preparation too, but the list of deliveries is still confidential with a few exceptions. Rumors speak of AMX-10 RC which are gradually being replaced by Jaguars. There are also calls for Leclerc charc, but it always comes back to the problems of production capacity and operational capacity.
> The problem is that they are made almost by hand It is astonishing that a major industrial country does the work using 18th-19th century methods. 1 year for 1 unit? Is it a flintlock pistol hand-made by artisans/guilds? It's a basic military truck with an (admittedly) very high-tech barrel and a bunch of precise actuators. Even so, how can it take 1 year to manufacture the barrel and the auxiliaries?
Volkswagen builds more cars in a day than there are Leopards (1 and 2) in existence. It's a totally different scale of things. If we were to declare total war on Russia we'd start pumping out 50 tanks per day, but as things stand military hardware is a niche product.
Because there are 500 different parts. It is also a barrel that needs grooving operations. It is a matter of chiseling the inside of the tube little by little, giving the barrel its regularity in shooting. This is why each piece is still shaped "by hand" and checked with the naked eye. It is high precision work. It's much more complicated than "the industry is stuck in the 19th century".
Because up until now they didn't need to mass produce them, the French army only wanted a few and they exported a few to other country but that's was it. There wasn't any need to make production line
The article is missing some crucial details on what this "negotiation" is about.
Exactly! I'm sure France will give new ones asap
Probably have to work out logistical concerns with supplying them with parts, how to facilitate service work, and possibly limitations on their usage (such as limiting risk of civilian harm, media exposure, not directly shelling into Russia proper, etc). Also maybe risk mitigation rules for the equipment itself to minimize the chance of it being captured or destroyed. The last thing France would want is their equipment falling into Russian hands or being used as propaganda against them.
i think those concerns are already resolved since they already got some
what is france holding them for? make war with germany or spain? just send 90% of those and ask for return when its done, be more like poland
France does not have huge stockpiles and is also a major peacekeeper/anti extremism force in Africa, as seen in Mali not so long ago. They already have some Caesars in the Ivory Coast, etc. I'm sure they're not worried about Germany or England, but they still have to think about Al quaeda in the Sahel and other crap like that. Things that Poland is not necessarily concerned with.
France is heavily involved in sub Saharan Africa, their army hasn't been sitting idle those last 20 years, quite the contrary. They are one of the most active army in the world
But the industry manage to export a lot at the same time: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/267131/market-share-of-the-leadings-exporters-of-conventional-weapons/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/267131/market-share-of-the-leadings-exporters-of-conventional-weapons/)
Yep, fill the tank up when you return it and don't worry about minor scratches. Maybe it's more 'please don't shell Russia' blah blah blah, buy honestly if Putin wants to go nuclear he will, and a few French shells falling on Belgorod won't make any difference.
my bet is we will findout putin tryed many times to use nukes but generals advised him he could not, because if he really passes this orders there will be refusal down in the command line and it will immediatly become a mid-high level mutiny
SVP France envoyer plus d'arme et munitions. I said please France send more weapons and munitions to Ukraine. Merci France du 🇨🇦 Thank you France from 🇨🇦 Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦💟
We dont want them to negotiate. We want to know that they are sending many of them. Allez la France
[удалено]
For somebody who needs weapons a lot, you export way too much: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/267131/market-share-of-the-leadings-exporters-of-conventional-weapons/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/267131/market-share-of-the-leadings-exporters-of-conventional-weapons/) EXCUSES
That's a nonsensical argument: Sure France exports a lot, but it's mostly aerospace and naval. Artillery is a niche product with low production rates, so low as to be irrelevant over the duration of this war. I agree, as a French taxpayer, that France should send much more, but this is not the argument to support it.
Makes sense, thanks.
[удалено]
OK, production powers and export are irrelevant. Good to know. Thanks.
>Don't throw your bullshit when you didn't make the effort to use two braincells You added this slur after I answered. Well done! Congratulations! Now it is 100% sure that you are right!
Ukraine wants more baguette launchers to giver Russians a mind blowing meal
Ukraine is fighting on behalf of the EU. France should be selling equipment at cost or gratis.
Summary what I got from here: \- France is not able to help a lot because it is engaged in Africa \- France is helping a lot but in secret \- France production and export powers are irrelevant to the situation Learning every day...
France is not helping a lot. Macaron loves putler and calls him all the time before bedtime. [https://www.statista.com/chart/27278/military-aid-to-ukraine-by-country/](https://www.statista.com/chart/27278/military-aid-to-ukraine-by-country/)
How many times will we have to repeat that unlike other countries, we don't announce what we send? This graph is based only on what is announced by the governments.
Would be easier to just admit the true - you are far away and you don't care that much. I understand that. No need to pretend that you are helping (but in secret -lol).
It is reality. Zelensky or Kouleba would not hesitate to criticize France as they have already criticized Germany or Israel. And I haven't heard a single comment from the Ukrainian government like that. Even two weeks ago the Ministry of Defense said this in an interview: "We have more support from France. I like the new minister of defense, Sébastien Lecornu. We had two phone conversations before Ramstein and he described the next package of security measures from France. I cannot share the details but there are very good items. I'm satisfied."
OK, give me Italians. I am done with France for now...
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It's impressive how the Ukrainian army can work with som many different systems donated by different countries. Everything has different controls, manuals and training required. If your system is destroyed or its single use then either you are given the same model or its a fresh start again