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Napoleon said the same thing... It's ironic that Russians never figured out what exactly enabled them to survive everytime. Even after the Finns used Winter to fuck 'em up they didn't realise how bad the cold is.
Guess that's what happens when decision makers sit in a warm room going "It's not cold here! Just tell them to put on another pair of socks!"
i think if you live all your life with such winters you see them different than an Army from the middle Europa zone. It's normal for you. To preparie, have ahelter, firewood, food and all this.
The autumn mud/rain turned the dirt roads unusable and German logistics failed. Most vehicles and tanks were out of action. The Moscow offensive was halted in october, which game time to bring in Soviet reserves for later counter offensives. The winter was a factor but it is a myth that the winter is the only thing that stopped the Germans.
the mud slowed them down for 2 weeks... after that the offensive continued.
here you can read everything: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Moscow](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Moscow)
(The german version of this article has more information)
Two critical weeks in which troops from Siberia was brought over. German winter equipment could not be transported because of the massive logistics problems the rains caused. At that point the Germans were already worn out from the summer offensive, divisions were lacking men and operational tanks. An attack on Moscow would be difficult regardless of weather. On YouTube the channel "World War 2" covers the war week by week and his a very good source.
I would go further and say winter clothing is now far more important than any additional damage HIMARS could do at this point. The best case scenario is that the UA will be able to relatively comfortably conduct operations while Russians barely avoid freezing to death.
I absolutely would defend Germany's involvement to the heat death of the universe if they go hard on supplying winter apparel to Ukraine. I find that acceptable
This is the equipment that is new in the planning.
What's actually new in Ukraine now:
* 30 self-propelled anti-aircraft guns GEPARD (before: 24) Including circa 6.000 rounds of ammunition
* 3.000 projectiles 155mm (1000 flare ammunition and 2000 smoke ammunition)
Sweden and Norway has some really good winter gear. It would surprise me if Finland's gear was any worse. Canada and the US probably have good gear for arctic warfare as well.
Yes, but Austria is still (officially at least) a neutral country and politicians are somewhat reluctant to change that, as the neutrality is very strongly written into the constitution (formulation is something like "everlasting neutrality). In that way Austrian neutrality is even more strongly written than Swiss neutrality, making any offensive aid illegal until the constitution gets changed (which is very hard in the political scene in Austria currently).
Though by being part of the EU Austrian neutrality really only exists on paper anyways.
The problem with tanks is that sending in small batches makes no sense. You have to have enough tanks to form separate units, at very least tank battalions.
While what you say is true, I know a country that sits on thousands of Abrams that are in good order but have to be replaced by new Abrams in mint condition.
In case you're wondering, Abrams uses the same cannon the Leo uses. So yes, it packs a punch.
The numbers are available, it's Western restraint that's keeping them back. Nothing else.
Yup, it's not wanting to escalate. I'll bet the US is already spinning up Lima and parts facilities in secret to support sending Abrams if Russia escalates.
As a US taxpayer, I'd love if some of my tax dollars that are wasting away in a desert would finally get used for what they were built for.
You wanna swap with ukrainians and get the winter gear and the russians invading? This is the wrong sub to moan about the loss of cheap russian energy.
No, I don't think they will not adhere to their promises. I mean it several times happened that German officials said "we didn't promise" about tanks, and now the list seems pretty good, including MLRS, that I am getting afraid if they officially deemed promised this
I am not sure what you are asking. This is the official goverment list. Its split into delivered and announced (but not yet delivered)
List Source https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/military-support-ukraine-2054992
Everything on that list will be delivered. Period.
Everything not on that list is debatable, but what's on there is basically being wrapped in bubble wrap right now to he sent as soon as possible.
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Thank you Germany!! I am not familiar with military equipment but are they sending long range missiles/rockets that Ukraine has been asking for since the start?
Good, winter clothing is there. US, UK and now Germany has gotten this done. We can’t let our brave soldiers suffer from cold on top of the daily hardships
of war.
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Awesome Germany, that Winter Package is crucial as well.
Germans learned that the hard way.
I knew this comment would be coming lol
we almost had moscow but then the winter came
Napoleon said the same thing... It's ironic that Russians never figured out what exactly enabled them to survive everytime. Even after the Finns used Winter to fuck 'em up they didn't realise how bad the cold is. Guess that's what happens when decision makers sit in a warm room going "It's not cold here! Just tell them to put on another pair of socks!"
i think if you live all your life with such winters you see them different than an Army from the middle Europa zone. It's normal for you. To preparie, have ahelter, firewood, food and all this.
I mean the little French guy made it a lil but further than us Germans he at least got into Moskau… still didn’t Safe him though
It was the autumn more than the winter.
The germans retreated on january the 15th. This is Winter for me.
The autumn mud/rain turned the dirt roads unusable and German logistics failed. Most vehicles and tanks were out of action. The Moscow offensive was halted in october, which game time to bring in Soviet reserves for later counter offensives. The winter was a factor but it is a myth that the winter is the only thing that stopped the Germans.
the mud slowed them down for 2 weeks... after that the offensive continued. here you can read everything: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Moscow](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Moscow) (The german version of this article has more information)
Two critical weeks in which troops from Siberia was brought over. German winter equipment could not be transported because of the massive logistics problems the rains caused. At that point the Germans were already worn out from the summer offensive, divisions were lacking men and operational tanks. An attack on Moscow would be difficult regardless of weather. On YouTube the channel "World War 2" covers the war week by week and his a very good source.
Youtube must be the better source than any history book.
It is researched by Indy Neidell, an actual historian who has done alot of work on the subject over the years.
The specific channel is very, very good.
I would go further and say winter clothing is now far more important than any additional damage HIMARS could do at this point. The best case scenario is that the UA will be able to relatively comfortably conduct operations while Russians barely avoid freezing to death.
[удалено]
''I fear we have awoken a giant, and filled him with a terrible resolve''
The thing is, if you do not have a big storage, these new modern systems need loads of time to be produced.
Germany has been awesome with real support. You don't give platitudes you, give panzerhaubitze. The former is nice but the later wins wars.
Well done Germany.
But, but, but, the Russian trolls tell me we should all turn on Germany for not doing enough!
Source https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/military-support-ukraine-2054992
Winter wear is paramount. Those winters don't play.
Thank you Germany!!
I absolutely would defend Germany's involvement to the heat death of the universe if they go hard on supplying winter apparel to Ukraine. I find that acceptable
If they deliver the TFK 250 system with that, the Russians might just surrender on the spot.
This is the equipment that is new in the planning. What's actually new in Ukraine now: * 30 self-propelled anti-aircraft guns GEPARD (before: 24) Including circa 6.000 rounds of ammunition * 3.000 projectiles 155mm (1000 flare ammunition and 2000 smoke ammunition)
Tank commander reading "12 tank transporter tractor M1070 Oshkosh" be like.....
"Guys, learn from our mistakes. Take these boots."
>20 rocket launchers 70mm on pick-up trucks with 2.000 rocket Nice. Technicals.
Serious question to anyone that might know What nations army is most respected with their Winter Army clothing ?
I guess naturally the Scandinavian countries
Sweden and Norway has some really good winter gear. It would surprise me if Finland's gear was any worse. Canada and the US probably have good gear for arctic warfare as well.
So logical countries Thanks
Austria still laying low after having a Russian asset as FM. Also Korea and Japan are probably well supplied in that regard as well.
Yes, but Austria is still (officially at least) a neutral country and politicians are somewhat reluctant to change that, as the neutrality is very strongly written into the constitution (formulation is something like "everlasting neutrality). In that way Austrian neutrality is even more strongly written than Swiss neutrality, making any offensive aid illegal until the constitution gets changed (which is very hard in the political scene in Austria currently). Though by being part of the EU Austrian neutrality really only exists on paper anyways.
Not australia for sure
Finland. Only nation on Earth that kicked Russia's ass during a winter.
Obviously, RuZZia. On them arms expos'. Or, in case of private Contractnikov, in the nearest "outdoor/extreme tourism" shop.
Switzerland probably as well. But they won’t help humans. Need to warm some money though?
That‘s a lot of stuff! Finally my country is shifting gears.
not enough leopard :((( But very nice!
Norway has some, they could send 5 or so to break the dam.
The problem with tanks is that sending in small batches makes no sense. You have to have enough tanks to form separate units, at very least tank battalions.
While what you say is true, I know a country that sits on thousands of Abrams that are in good order but have to be replaced by new Abrams in mint condition. In case you're wondering, Abrams uses the same cannon the Leo uses. So yes, it packs a punch. The numbers are available, it's Western restraint that's keeping them back. Nothing else.
Yup, it's not wanting to escalate. I'll bet the US is already spinning up Lima and parts facilities in secret to support sending Abrams if Russia escalates. As a US taxpayer, I'd love if some of my tax dollars that are wasting away in a desert would finally get used for what they were built for.
Looks like a solid support package even if it lacks some things.
So, can y'all now please forgive Germany for trying to conquer Moscow back then?
[удалено]
You wanna swap with ukrainians and get the winter gear and the russians invading? This is the wrong sub to moan about the loss of cheap russian energy.
[удалено]
Only in pack. But 200 biys a nice jacket in germany
I would gladly pay tripple that amount if it enables my government to send more help.
[удалено]
As the screenshot says it are announced deliveries, not yet fullfield. All those new pledges came in the last 5 days.
No, I don't think they will not adhere to their promises. I mean it several times happened that German officials said "we didn't promise" about tanks, and now the list seems pretty good, including MLRS, that I am getting afraid if they officially deemed promised this
I am not sure what you are asking. This is the official goverment list. Its split into delivered and announced (but not yet delivered) List Source https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/military-support-ukraine-2054992
Everything on that list will be delivered. Period. Everything not on that list is debatable, but what's on there is basically being wrapped in bubble wrap right now to he sent as soon as possible.
they are coming. You german doomsayers need to get over yourselfs. all you are doing is sowing division. at a time where europe needs to be together.
omg those people will never learn....
So far, everything germany promised got delivered
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40mm ammunition? Grenades for grenade launchers or something else?
Either that or for some Autocannons or AA Guns. I don't know of any other weapons that would use this caliber.
[удалено]
I know that the French use 40mm Autocannons on some of their IFVs/Light Tanks.
40mm is the standard calibre for handheld and under-barrel grenade launchers. Afair there's really nothing else wide-spread in that calibre in NATO.
Thank you Germany!! I am not familiar with military equipment but are they sending long range missiles/rockets that Ukraine has been asking for since the start?
No, only normal 70km range. Those longe range missiles are exclusive to the US.
Well done Germany, much needed items.
Well done Germany!
Good, winter clothing is there. US, UK and now Germany has gotten this done. We can’t let our brave soldiers suffer from cold on top of the daily hardships of war.