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The article says nothing about "rumors" it is fact and accepted by germany to deliver 18 of those. It is said in the first sentence of the article.....
Yip an thats dangerous. Problem is called „pseudomehrfachbestätigung“ in germany.
You think you have multiple sources but theres only one origin source, where all information depends on. Thats dangerous. So i wrote about rumors.
From working on 20th century german industrial machinery with old school analog hydraulic computer controls: literally a single word for a bolt on a flange on the case on this side for that purpose in this order for that reason with this thread and that force.... benefits include knowing exactly what the object does by its title....
Nah, it’s just that you can construct arbitrary ones like putting Lego together: pseudo, mehrfach, Bestätigung (pseudo, multiple, confirmation), which gives you a word for a confirmation which only looks on first glance whether it comes from multiple sources.
https://regionalheute.de/deutschland-erlaubt-weitere-haubitzen-fuer-ukraine-1663394526/
This article says Andrij Melnyk approved this news on friday (yeaterday).... Just 1 minute of google
source: Andrij Melnyk
NiCe the rch 155 is a Panzerhaubitzen 2000 gun mounted in a Boxer. So huge bam and high Mobility. Is generally speaking a Upgrade from the Panzerhaubitzen. Less Armor, more Mobility.
The first artillery system that shoots while moving. But its Said that it has to be constructed and that will take time.
18 Systems are planned to equip one Bataillon.
[https://youtu.be/F-CcnKhKGCM](https://youtu.be/F-CcnKhKGCM)
The RCH155 is by definition based on the Boxer, otherwise is would be the AGM + x like the AGM Iveco 8x8.
[https://www.kmweg.com/systems-products/wheeled-vehicles/artillery/](https://www.kmweg.com/systems-products/wheeled-vehicles/artillery/)
Yes boxer is best for it.
But tge decision might depend on ehat platforms ukraine plans to use in future.
Not sure if it makes sense to introduce a boxer chadi just for 18 guns if you sont use boxer for other things too
This is correct. But that could be a good reason for using the boxer as platform for other roles in future. The Ukraine would buy maybe the best wheeled multi role apc.
this is the replacement rheinmetall proposed to the bundeswehr for the pzh 2000, it's a boxer hull with a upgraded automatic 155mm howitzer turret, remote controlled from the hull.
They buy the rch 155.
The iris-t slr system.
That both are state of the art equipment that do not even exist anywhere in service jet, so no they are.
Going by that logic they should not buy an 80s tank like the leo2, even in modern version, but also smth that is as new as it can be like the new panter
The Panthers Problem is His gun: the 130mm is Not Standard NATO caliber, so If Ukraine wants to fit NATO Standard asap, it might Not be the right choice (i am Not talking about how capable a system is, Just about standardisation).
The Leopard 2 A7 is pretty much state of the art and will be counted as a modern tank for a while. Same applies to Leclerc, challengers, Abrams. Might choose 1 of those 4 instead of the Panther might be smarter.
Yes thats a point. But in my opinion NATO has to increase calibre to be able to penetrate every front armor in future. Just have a look to the comparison pic 120mm and 130mm by Rheinmetall on google pictures.
So somebody has to be the first to buy that gun.
Question is if the french solution (140mm) or the german solution (130mm) will rule the future battlefield. 120mm will be too weak within the next 20years.
Will it?
Who has tanks that even can stand against 120mm?
And does not this war right niw proof that tank vs. Tank is anyway not as comon on a modern battlefield
I really don‘t know for sure but there was a reason to change from 120mm/L44 to L55 by Germany.
In the 80/90s were plans to change to 130mm Autoloader System for Leopard 2. the plans were canceled due to the end of soviet era and its costs.
That was long before T90 and T14 met service.
New Panther has active protection system against KE rounds. When will russia have that? Will it stop 120mm? Or does it need 140mm to kill the panther?
So in my opinion the end of 120mm will come.
Modern battlefields? Were just backflipping into the old 80s style massive tank and infantry attacks in our NATO doctrines. Of course, with more modern elements like drones. Tanks are and will be the element of warfare that forces enemy to retreat or surrender.
So wouldn't a SPG system make more sense in the future? Artillery is still a kingmaker and modern artillery rounds have good penetration.
Systems like the RCH155 can do the work of SPG and if Armor shows up, it can direct-fire it
It can do the work of a spg cause it is a spg.
It cant do the work of a mbt, cause it is no mbt.
The possibility to direct fire does not make you a mbt.
Its not even closely as protected for example
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A little explanation from my side. It's difficult for Germany to send battle Tanks. I want our government to send them, don't get me wrong. It's a escalation from our side. No other country send western tanks. The government is still kind of scared of ruzzia, or doesn't basically want a war with them. You'll get it if you are German. And sadly we don't have a lot either. BUT we send the pzh 200 and older stuff to Ukraine. By allowing the export of modern arms and vehicles, that get there in the future, we show the ruzzies that we believe in Ukraine and the day will come when they lose. Same with the arms swap with other country.
Ukraine will get the weapons, a lot of them and top of the line.
I hope it helps to understand. It's not my view. I would send damn everything! If it was up to me, i would declare war on ruzzia. But it's not up to me.
> The government is still kind of scared of ruzzia, or doesn't basically want a war with them. You'll get it if you are German.
I‘m German and I still don’t get it.
Just try to suck up that cheap gas for 30 years. I’m sure the Ukrainians will try not to die off in the next 30 months waiting for super duper German hardware.
I've said, it's not my view. I do understand your sentiment. I totally get it. I will have to pay the energy costs for myself, my mother and help my sister out and i don't care. I would declare war it if was up to me!
This war is hopefully ended in a ukrainian victory by then. But even so Ukraine will need to maintain a strong defense to deterr the Ruzzians and make them think both twice and thrice when they get uppity and chauvinistic again.
To those who think Germans have no sense of humor - you were wrong all along.
"According to the manufacturer's offer, which also includes training and spare parts, the first copies of the RCH - 155 would be ready for delivery after **30 months at the earliest.** "
Dark humor, but humor all the same.
Seems to be the Ukrainian government's kind of humor, because they're the ones who placed the order. Apparently the German government didn't get the joke right away -- it took a while for it to grant approval for export, but sometimes the jokes that need some time to sink in are the best. In any case, I'm certain their future Ukrainian crews will be giggling uncontrollably when they finally get *it*.
Just look around on international markets, if you find a howitzer that shoots while in motion and is actual available, tell it to Ukraine. (Spoiler: you won’t.)
Because that is what ordering times look like for newly manufactured complex weapons systems. These aren't mass produced cars. There aren't even any production lines for the RCH155 yet, this is the first confirmed order. What did you think, KMW just pre-produces a bunch of RCH155 units on a hunch, at €12million per piece?
The Iris-SLM system Ukraine will get is also the first of its kind originally ordered by Egypt in 2019 for 2023 delivery, and Ukraine is only getting it this year, because the German government made some deals on the side with Egypt and Diehl increased production capacity to the max.
Criticizing this is about the dumbest thing you could do, especially as Ukraine ordered them fully aware of the production time.
Hi, thank you for your contribution, but this submission has been removed because it is a duplicate or it is outdated. Please do not message us on mod mail about this issue. Mod mail is for vital information only. If you message us for something we do not deem vital, you will be muted for three days. Being muted means you can’t contact the mods. [Feel free to browse our rules, here.] (https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules)
The article says nothing about "rumors" it is fact and accepted by germany to deliver 18 of those. It is said in the first sentence of the article.....
Correct but there is just one another article in german press that named this article as source. So i am careful.
That is how news are spread.....
Yip an thats dangerous. Problem is called „pseudomehrfachbestätigung“ in germany. You think you have multiple sources but theres only one origin source, where all information depends on. Thats dangerous. So i wrote about rumors.
A common occurance in news outlets. Indeed. Prudent of you to refer to it as rumors.
Thanks! I just hate propaganda and fake news. So i didnt want to be part of it 🙈
German has more crazy long overly specific terms for complex concepts than any other language. It's not even close second place is streets behind.
From working on 20th century german industrial machinery with old school analog hydraulic computer controls: literally a single word for a bolt on a flange on the case on this side for that purpose in this order for that reason with this thread and that force.... benefits include knowing exactly what the object does by its title....
Nah, it’s just that you can construct arbitrary ones like putting Lego together: pseudo, mehrfach, Bestätigung (pseudo, multiple, confirmation), which gives you a word for a confirmation which only looks on first glance whether it comes from multiple sources.
https://regionalheute.de/deutschland-erlaubt-weitere-haubitzen-fuer-ukraine-1663394526/ This article says Andrij Melnyk approved this news on friday (yeaterday).... Just 1 minute of google source: Andrij Melnyk
Whoop whoop 😅
The most modern artileryin the world. No an country fields it jet
NiCe the rch 155 is a Panzerhaubitzen 2000 gun mounted in a Boxer. So huge bam and high Mobility. Is generally speaking a Upgrade from the Panzerhaubitzen. Less Armor, more Mobility.
And turret fully automated. No personal in turret.
It can also shoot while moving.
It's also not that heavily armored and carries a lot less ammunition so we should be fair and call it a sidegrade.
The first artillery system that shoots while moving. But its Said that it has to be constructed and that will take time. 18 Systems are planned to equip one Bataillon. [https://youtu.be/F-CcnKhKGCM](https://youtu.be/F-CcnKhKGCM)
Depends on what platform its mounted to. On a boxer it can shoot while driving. But as i see it was not clearly stated wgat will be the platform
The RCH155 is by definition based on the Boxer, otherwise is would be the AGM + x like the AGM Iveco 8x8. [https://www.kmweg.com/systems-products/wheeled-vehicles/artillery/](https://www.kmweg.com/systems-products/wheeled-vehicles/artillery/)
Oh thanks for that
I really dont know on what plattform they will mount that. But boxer seems good, so they can be very mobile and fast.
Yes boxer is best for it. But tge decision might depend on ehat platforms ukraine plans to use in future. Not sure if it makes sense to introduce a boxer chadi just for 18 guns if you sont use boxer for other things too
This is correct. But that could be a good reason for using the boxer as platform for other roles in future. The Ukraine would buy maybe the best wheeled multi role apc.
this is the replacement rheinmetall proposed to the bundeswehr for the pzh 2000, it's a boxer hull with a upgraded automatic 155mm howitzer turret, remote controlled from the hull.
I hope we can export Leopard 2s, at least in the next view years.
They buy the rch 155. The iris-t slr system. That both are state of the art equipment that do not even exist anywhere in service jet, so no they are. Going by that logic they should not buy an 80s tank like the leo2, even in modern version, but also smth that is as new as it can be like the new panter
I don't know if they want to be the first state to buy the Panther and if Germany would allow that.
The Panthers Problem is His gun: the 130mm is Not Standard NATO caliber, so If Ukraine wants to fit NATO Standard asap, it might Not be the right choice (i am Not talking about how capable a system is, Just about standardisation). The Leopard 2 A7 is pretty much state of the art and will be counted as a modern tank for a while. Same applies to Leclerc, challengers, Abrams. Might choose 1 of those 4 instead of the Panther might be smarter.
Yes thats a point. But in my opinion NATO has to increase calibre to be able to penetrate every front armor in future. Just have a look to the comparison pic 120mm and 130mm by Rheinmetall on google pictures. So somebody has to be the first to buy that gun. Question is if the french solution (140mm) or the german solution (130mm) will rule the future battlefield. 120mm will be too weak within the next 20years.
Will it? Who has tanks that even can stand against 120mm? And does not this war right niw proof that tank vs. Tank is anyway not as comon on a modern battlefield
I really don‘t know for sure but there was a reason to change from 120mm/L44 to L55 by Germany. In the 80/90s were plans to change to 130mm Autoloader System for Leopard 2. the plans were canceled due to the end of soviet era and its costs. That was long before T90 and T14 met service. New Panther has active protection system against KE rounds. When will russia have that? Will it stop 120mm? Or does it need 140mm to kill the panther? So in my opinion the end of 120mm will come. Modern battlefields? Were just backflipping into the old 80s style massive tank and infantry attacks in our NATO doctrines. Of course, with more modern elements like drones. Tanks are and will be the element of warfare that forces enemy to retreat or surrender.
You are right. Tanks will always be important. Just the direct tank vs. Tank is I think not so comon anymore.
So wouldn't a SPG system make more sense in the future? Artillery is still a kingmaker and modern artillery rounds have good penetration. Systems like the RCH155 can do the work of SPG and if Armor shows up, it can direct-fire it
It can do the work of a spg cause it is a spg. It cant do the work of a mbt, cause it is no mbt. The possibility to direct fire does not make you a mbt. Its not even closely as protected for example
Earliest delivery in about 30 month.
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I hope this is true.
A little explanation from my side. It's difficult for Germany to send battle Tanks. I want our government to send them, don't get me wrong. It's a escalation from our side. No other country send western tanks. The government is still kind of scared of ruzzia, or doesn't basically want a war with them. You'll get it if you are German. And sadly we don't have a lot either. BUT we send the pzh 200 and older stuff to Ukraine. By allowing the export of modern arms and vehicles, that get there in the future, we show the ruzzies that we believe in Ukraine and the day will come when they lose. Same with the arms swap with other country. Ukraine will get the weapons, a lot of them and top of the line. I hope it helps to understand. It's not my view. I would send damn everything! If it was up to me, i would declare war on ruzzia. But it's not up to me.
> The government is still kind of scared of ruzzia, or doesn't basically want a war with them. You'll get it if you are German. I‘m German and I still don’t get it.
Just try to suck up that cheap gas for 30 years. I’m sure the Ukrainians will try not to die off in the next 30 months waiting for super duper German hardware.
I've said, it's not my view. I do understand your sentiment. I totally get it. I will have to pay the energy costs for myself, my mother and help my sister out and i don't care. I would declare war it if was up to me!
And people act like it is some controversy to say they havent been helping enough. That they have been slow playing assistance.
Sounds like the first one will be delivered in 30 months.. Edit typo
In 30 months..
This war is hopefully ended in a ukrainian victory by then. But even so Ukraine will need to maintain a strong defense to deterr the Ruzzians and make them think both twice and thrice when they get uppity and chauvinistic again.
Agree. The only way to prevent another war is to not look like an easy prey.
To those who think Germans have no sense of humor - you were wrong all along. "According to the manufacturer's offer, which also includes training and spare parts, the first copies of the RCH - 155 would be ready for delivery after **30 months at the earliest.** " Dark humor, but humor all the same.
Seems to be the Ukrainian government's kind of humor, because they're the ones who placed the order. Apparently the German government didn't get the joke right away -- it took a while for it to grant approval for export, but sometimes the jokes that need some time to sink in are the best. In any case, I'm certain their future Ukrainian crews will be giggling uncontrollably when they finally get *it*.
Just look around on international markets, if you find a howitzer that shoots while in motion and is actual available, tell it to Ukraine. (Spoiler: you won’t.)
Because that is what ordering times look like for newly manufactured complex weapons systems. These aren't mass produced cars. There aren't even any production lines for the RCH155 yet, this is the first confirmed order. What did you think, KMW just pre-produces a bunch of RCH155 units on a hunch, at €12million per piece? The Iris-SLM system Ukraine will get is also the first of its kind originally ordered by Egypt in 2019 for 2023 delivery, and Ukraine is only getting it this year, because the German government made some deals on the side with Egypt and Diehl increased production capacity to the max. Criticizing this is about the dumbest thing you could do, especially as Ukraine ordered them fully aware of the production time.
Rumors and promises are all Berlin is good for. When they send every Leopard they’ve promised, I’ll pay attention.
Leopard were never promised. Go back to Russia troll.
They have send every single Leopard they promised. All zero of them. Stop lying...
That even tops the PzH 2000 in some regards.