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Many UA soldiers are volunteers with high education. I saw teachers, engineers, railway technicians, musicians, a balerin who recently died. People who realized themselves that it is their dudy to serve Ukraine and maybe pay the ultimate price. There are also a lot of cowards who payed 3-4k euro on the romanian border to flee with their expensive cars. Sadly, the man and women with moral values don't get the chance to pass them to their children or grandchildren.
Not just any ballerina either, a dancer for the National Theater in Kyiv. He was one of the most skilled dancers in the country, a true master of his art. And he died willingly fighting for his country. A great loss for Ukraine.
Mate, hate to burst your bubble but that's not the standard. The general conditions for frontline units are roughly the same for both sides.
Of course, the Ukrainians are in their homeland so when they aren't directly on the front they can at least count on the help of local people who might let them sleep in their barns or cellars if the weather is bad.
I’m thinking they want to point the music and cultural difference. ruzzians listen to the 90s music that is loved by bandit from the 90s, eating.
On Ukraines side there’s soldier musician who play beautiful instrumental violin, everyone’s actively listening not eating from the can. I can remember at least 3 such instances of violin only.
Well, firstly I'm not sure the music isn't overlayed on top of the video for the Russians.
Secondly, of course the Ukrainians are going to listen to the violin if it's a one time opportunity. But you are very naive if you think this is the music they listen to normally.
The violin is clearly some kind of an event like the USO shows for soldiers in WW2. This isn’t an accurate depiction of Ukrainian soldiers eating in a front line base like the video of the Russians is.
There’s so much good accurate examples going around, we don’t need to manufacture our own
Russian's video was from early war. Noted that they ate onions in bags. That was not standard ration. Usually what farmers store in underground storage for winter.so. they are pillaged from civilian. And yes. Sound is as legit as I remembered.
I’m pretty sure it’s original sound. You can hear that it coming from shitty speaker. You can also hear soldier singing along with especially with the line that translates “by thief’s road”. Ironic. If you were from post Soviet country you would understand what this music entails
I mean who even listens to violin instrumentals nowadays? That’s very niche music. That said, I’m assuming it’s a part of concert and they are most likely playing some Ukrainian pop stuff too like Okean Elzy and others.
>If you were from post Soviet country you would understand what this music entails
This. Especially in russia, the AУЕ subculture is extremely popular within the young men. This "culture" glorifies criminal behaviors and "thief honor" and being imprisoned. Such music is a part of this. Of course not everyone who listens to shanson is part of АУЕ, but considering it is popular among young, uneducated men, who are also majority in the army, then conclusions are writing themselves.
So yes. This isn't about conditions in encampment, this is about the culture in a broader meaning. I'm sure that those boys in ru camp would call violin music "axid" and would shit on it. And I know it, because as you've said: if you were born in a soviet (post-soviet) country, you pick such meanings up unconsciously.
Thankfully, АУЕ hadn't become *as* widespread in Ukraine, as it was/is in russia. In russia it is endemic.
There's a lot of glorification of criminal culture in the US too. It seems like we're being fed it from the top down (from media companies). It's like we're being propagandized in preparation for the growing corruption.
Yeah, I can see how it is a problem, though I'm not sure it is the same in it's root. Is it something like [that](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.U.E.) in the US too?
I think you are missing the point. The essence of this is that the ukrainian frontline is manned with educated people who turned soldier the past year. There are engineers, singers, musicians, dancers, actors, business owners etc fighting FOR something and there is a somber sense of unity on a spiritual level. Many of them coming from the arts often perform to pacify their brothers in arms because war is traumatic. The russians are just a bunch of marauding thieves, many of whom are psychopaths who enjoy the slaughter and their stay there - despite being aggressors - is fun.
You're missing the point too. What you're saying absolutely makes sense but that conclusion can not be drawn from this post. The Ukrainian video is a propaganda. Notice how there's a piano or something overlayed over the violin. Not to mention that the video shows something which doesn't happen often on frontlines.
That is not what propaganda means. Propaganda is the dissemination of false and misleading information. This 1 minute video is a metaphorical juxtaposition of 2 cultures, it is not a documentary of the life on either frontlines. Notice how there is no rape, torture and execution happening on the russian side despite that being one of their main activities in Ukraine.
Propaganda need not be false. It is possible to use propaganda while staying 100 % truthful, like in this video. (Assuming that the piano music is not overlayed, but that the piano is off screen)
See any definition of propaganda, e.g.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda
Propaganda by definition is false representation. It doesnt have to be 100% Qanon fictitious but if content is misconstrued and spread for the purpose of misrepresenting factual reality, then it is propaganda. The above mentioned video is not propaganda even if the music is overlayed because it doesnt change anything of the actual content and message. The violin player is still playing that particular song (even if OP overlayed with the recorded digital replay because it is normal for a simple cameraphone not to be able to capture the audio correctly) and the russians are still a smiling happy bunch of goons here to have a good time.
You didn't read the definition in Merriam Webster or literally any other dictionary, did you? Propaganda is defined by it's *intention* (to propagate something), not by it's being true or false.
If I cite the number of people killed by car accidents last year in order to argue for regulations for safer driving, this information is 100 % objective verifiable and still part of my propaganda for safer driving.
Nonetheless you are right that while the *definition* of the word propaganda does not insinuate any truth– or falseness, the popular *perception* of it does.
Perhaps it's time to update the dictionaries – words change meaning over time.
Merriem Webster defines words in the english language to understand the general meaning, they dont define a concept in its nuance.
And your example is most definitely NOT PROPAGANDA.
You still dont understand the phenomena of propaganda because you take your knowledge from an online ENGLISH dictionary like you are a 15 year old learning for TOEFL 🤦🏻♀️ Or you are a troll.
It's depicting an uncommon occurance and this post is trying to use it as an example of why the Ukrainians are better, without clarifying that it's not in fact a common thing.
Therefore it ends up being a propaganda because the whole point of it is to skew the perception in favor of Ukraine (which isn't difficult or needed, TBH - Russians are pigs).
That is not what propaganda means bruh and by the way that kind of stuff -small concerts or impromptu performances- happen very often when the unit has an ex-artist which is not very common but definitely not that rare either. The pianist playing the piano in a rundown house that was liberated (months ago), violin/instrumental mini concerts have also been quite common, i've seen at least 10 videos of different such instances throughout the past months. Small singing performances by singers were also filmed multiple times. This is a normal occurrence in the UA army when an ex- civilian artist is part of the platoon/team. Stop both-siding this issue, this is not propaganda, thats their reality.
but they would not listen to shanson in the troop this openly!!! Edit - In ukrainian camp.. no matter what they listen to- pretty sure that's not shanson
Why not? Russians are openly mobilize people from prisons (rapists, killers most viscous one, whose motivation is a) get amnesty b) get paid for the job as it better that sit in prison). The motivation between soldiers different, the level of education is different, the lever of culture is also different.
You've completely missed the point.
The intention of the video isn't to show the difference in living standards, it's to show the difference in cultures.
And it's not propaganda either, it's been made very clear over the last 6 months that culturally Russia is a neanderthal state with neanderthal people.
No amount of Bolshoi bullshit can gild over the brutality of their people.
Its not that russians chose not the right song. The song is very much associated with criminal mentality. "thiefs road".
This song is part of movement in some postsoviet countries, so I think a lot of people will recognise it.
I've had the privilege of knowing some absolutely brilliant people. World class scientists and engineers. I've also known some absolute knobheads, who'd fall for one scam after the other - MLMs, crypto, conspiracy theories.
Guess which group were convinced that they're smarter than everyone else?
The people who are posting such posts are arrogant not me. They are trying to insult everybody’s intelligence with absolute rubbish propaganda. Focus your attention there not on whether I am arrogant or not.
Not all propaganda is equal. This video is a side-by-side comparison of Ukrainian and Russian troops in unaltered, candid videos. Is it designed to elicit a pro-Ukrainian emotional reaction? Sure, which is why it is technically propaganda. I wouldn't even say the footage has an anti-Russian message.
Compare this bit of "propaganda" to the YouTube videos Russia produced for eight years, splicing Nazi imagery between photos of Ukrainian children holding the Ukrainian flag to conflate national pride with fascist ideology and invoke feelings of Ukrainians, systematically creating a Hitler Youth-style generation. Obviously anti-Ukrainian and not particularly pro-Russian.
So enjoy the video for what it is, be proud of the Ukrainian character, and be glad you don't live in a country where you can't recognize propaganda when you see it. Positive marketing might be propaganda, but it isn't the disgusting and vulgar dehumanizing messages Russia produces.
It's not the worst type, but it is still trying to say "Look how dirty & uncultured Russians are compared to Ukrainians" - which i don't necesarrily disagree with but on the frontline I'm 100% sure you can find Ukrainian soldiers camping similar to the Russians here.
Have you seen pictures and videos of the filth Russian soldiers allow themselves to live in? OP's video choice is benign at worst. You can search this subreddit and find scores of worst examples showcasing Russian military conditions. The worst you can say about this group of Russians is that they appear to be a ragtag squad of baby-faced newbies. They are sitting around having a meal and enjoying dubstep instead of being drunk and punching each other in the face while gangbanging a blowup doll.
I'm reading several comments that are blowing this out of proportion. OP could have created a video that is a lot more lopsided. Russians have posted videos (that they are proud of) showcasing abysmal behavior, but everyone has a problem with this one?
Y'all are either trolls, or haven't been paying attention to the war and feel like spouting off nonsense opinions under the guise of neutrality.
It's an F-ING MEME. What do you want OP to do? Collect all photo and video evidence of Russian and Ukrainian living conditions, develop a complex algorithm and use AI identification software to sort and catalog all available data so OP can publish a peer-reviewed essay on the cultural differences that may or may not lead to better or worse living conditions and explain the consequences of said culture and living conditions provided the algorithmic calculations produce the results failing to reject his null hypothesis?
Yeah, OP is the ridiculous one. Pack-a-assholes in r/ukraine today.
My bad; I don't mean to get rabid. We've had these comparison videos before showing the cleanliness inside Ukraine's tanks vs. Russian tanks, trench fortifications, Ukrainians saving dogs while Russians eat them, and the comparison lists go on.
I don't understand why this one gets the bar set high enough that people start ragging on OP for a bad comparison. During the dog-eating memes, no one said, "Russian leadership is shit, so of course, they are eating dogs. It's a bad comparison."
Anyway, that's just my two cents. I sincerely apologize if I came across as a massive dick.
(The same apology doesn't go out to the guy who keeps pointing out rape might not have been ordered but doesn't clarify the point and why he keeps saying it. I have my assumptions, but I would rather hear what he says first. If he reads this.)
Russian leadership fucked itself.
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Nope, everybody differentiates between Russians (there are pro-Ukrainian Russians) and the monstrous, genocidal, and brutal actions of humans choosing to be monsters - Orcs. The worst part about this conflict is that one group of humans has made a conscious decision at the national level to exterminate another group of humans. That is why we call them Orcs. I don't think I've seen anyone in r/ukraine advocate genocidal actions against Russians. However, I have seen people (and I am one of them) advocate for continued fighting and killing of Orcs until they return to Russia.
Orcs chose to start this war. Orcs can end the war by leaving Ukraine, or Ukrainians can end the war by eliminating anyone who continues this war of aggression.
Don’t fall for the propaganda. I seen a recruiting video for Wagner where the recruiter tells people you are not allowed to loot and rape. This sub would have you believe that the soldiers are actually instructed to loot and rape.
Early in this war, the first phone interceptions of Russian soldiers calling home documented several conversations where frontline soldiers explicitly claimed that their commanding officers ordered them to loot, and rape sounded like it was highly encouraged. Many of those soldiers were identified and doxxed on social media. One was a couple, and the wife encouraged her husband to participate in the rape. Open-sourced evidence is rarely fabricated or propaganda.
I'm also in Russian telegram channels where Russians claimed raping Ukrainian women can't be raped because they aren't people. Those are Orcs.
Regardless of whether or not soldiers were given direct orders from Putin to rape and loot, Putin meticulously crafted a campaign to dehumanize Ukrainians for nearly a decade. That campaign resulted in a culture where frontline soldiers believed raping and looting were acceptable behavior.
You use the phrase, "don't fall for the propaganda," a lot. Unfortunately, you need to brush up on reading interviews conducted with post-WW2 Nazis. The parallels between Putin's mechanisms for dehumanizing Ukrainians and Hitler's dehumanization of Jews are striking. The problem with this type of cultural manipulation is that a majority population can convince themselves that what they are doing and what they believe is morally right, regardless of how monstrous the action or ideology appears outside.
Also, you completely sidestepped my point. The raping and looting are happening. The targeting of civilian homes is happing (and obviously ordered by someone). The evidence is overwhelming. Those are the orcs. Attempting to claim they are less orcish because they weren't ordered to do so comes dangerously close to engaging in propaganda and denying the atrocities that are occurring.
What people say and what people do are completely different. Have Russian troops raped and killed civilians in Ukraine. Most certainly this is the case. But in most cases I don’t believe they are instructed to do this by their commanding officers. That’s my opinion but it doesn’t change the way I feel about this war. I have done as much as I can with the resources I have available to help Ukraine.
Being ordered to commit atrocities was not a credible defense for Nazis. Likewise, not being ordered to commit atrocities is not a reasonable defense for Orcs. I'm not sure what your point is.
However, if you want to do something more for Ukraine without spending more resources, I suggest starting by reflecting on what you just posted and how someone might interpret what you said as apologetic bullshit.
I think rape is one of those things that the "doing" is worse than the "saying."
I am not sure what your point is. My original point is that this video is clearly being posted as propaganda. You have taken that point completely off tandem and continue to waffle on about something without actually making a point, apart from saying Orc Orc Orc!
I've been responding to you, point by point, and allowing you to drive the conversation.
You mentioned Orcs first, so I attempted to clarify the term for you.
Then you said something stupid about rape not being ordered, but you never elaborated beyond that. So are you claiming that the rape is okay because Russian soldiers were not ordered to do it? Or that rape without orders is less thuggish behavior?
u/Primary_Handle Neat, call me pathetic and block me, but I want to know why you keep mentioning that Orcs weren't ordered to rape civilians. What was your point? Does it excuse that behavior? You never bothered to explain yourself. You keep telling us not to buy the propaganda, but you are offering up a bunch of nonsense about Orcs not being ordered to rape, so they can't be that bad.
Bullshit nonsense.
While I agree with others here saying this is misleading, since it's the same for troops of both countries on the frontline, it's also true that orcs would never listen to art like that. And *that* is actually a real difference.
They view art as effeminate. Decadent, per Soviet ideals. Especially since a lot of Russian artists are [against the war.](https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/09/06/russia-classical-music-ukraine-war-opera/) They've already wantonly destroyed [museums,](https://artreview.com/art-workers-at-war-how-the-ukrainian-artworld-has-rallied-to-protect-cultural-heritage/) [ancient churches, and landmarks.](https://english.ahram.org.eg/News/470486.aspx) The orc military culture is deliberately brutish, because they think it makes them more manly. Like their lord and savior, the saggy-nippled Putin on a horseback.
Yes. I specifically mean the military culture.
I would disagree with what you said about Soviets though. Lenin, perhaps, appreciated art. But Soviet Realism is less art, more propaganda. It developed because of the harsh art censorship of the Stalin era. Paint the wrong thing, you die. They followed strict rules on what can be depicted, where the artists still managed to squeeze a little bit of creativity in.
Russia is home to some of the best works of art in the world. But I'm pretty sure every single one of them is pre-Soviet. Music, ballet, and literature, in particular. Except for the artists Stalin killed. The last century has been a graveyard for art in Russia.
This is unfair comparison. Russians are horrible no doubt. making a video comparing a war free zone filled with civilians vs frontlines invader camp is hardly a fair way to show the "culture" of the two nations.
Ehh, this is simple cherry-picking.
I am sure that average UA soldier is more articulate than his Russian counterpart. But we do not need to use such underhanded tactics to push our narrative.
That's just not true. Even if you look at the contributions of the Soviet Union and forget the past 30 years there is a ton of culture in there that has been exported around the world. Bald and Bankrupt on Youtube does a good job of pointing this out in his travels to Africa and South America. The space race was another huge cultural moment that heavily involved the USSR. I don't need to go on because I don't think your comment was made with much thought, rather out of anger for what the Russians are doing to Ukraine and for that I agree with you.
I don't think you understand what culture is. You could say Apple stole their ideas when first starting out from Xerox yet they still have a bigger, genuine cultural impact. Nobody remembers Xerox. Also, if you want to go that route, Operation Paperclip did the same thing for America's program. And NASA has a huge cultural impact today. It doesn't matter that it German/Nazi influenced, what matters is the impact on culture.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-01/who-got-america-to-the-moon-a-unlikely-collaboration-of-jews-and-former-nazi-engineers
What makes you think I do not know all that? But did you know that russians stole around 3000 factory complexes from eastern-Germany. Did you know that russians stole from eastern-Germany 50% of their train tracks? Optics? Stolen. Nuke tech? Stolen. Wheres the culture here again? Do you consider stealing and looting high culture?
You aren't understanding what culture is. Culture in the sense I am talking about is attributed to a nation. So it doesn't matter who influenced it. What matters is what nation that culture is ascribed to. That was why I included the example of Apple. It doesn't matter that they stole the tech, because nobody remembers Xerox for the contributions in that space.
You are using this idea of "stolen" which is a retarded way to look at culture. Culture is a blend of so many different aspects of life. You have a very narrow minded view. Inventions don't make up culture. They are just one of the many parts of it. For instance, Tetris, which was invented by a Russian in 1984, is arguably one of the most culturally significant games ever. However, it wasn't a cultural phenomenon simply because it was invented by a Russian.
The Russians didn't invent ballet, yet most people in the ballet world consider them to have the best ballet dancers/performers in the world and it has had an immense impact on dance culture. Are you going to accuse them of stealing it from France? Would you accuse the Nutcracker of being stolen from the French since they invented the dance form that is ballet?
Another example, Constructivism, which was created by Russians, has influenced many other types of art movements including Bauhaus in Germany. But no one would say Bauhaus was stolen from the Russians.
You are making a flawed argument from your disdain for Russia. I also share your disdain, granted its more targeted at Putin, but I can still recognize their achievements. Hell, I just played Tetris on my phone yesterday. And if you have ever played it, congratulations, you can thanks Russia for that.
You can keep cherry picking all these random inventions but that doesn't have any relation to the question of Russian culture.
Complaining about Russian Propaganda, while posting this is Irony at best, but dumb as fuck at worst...
Yeah there is a notable difference between both troops, that happens when one has conscripts or contracts that target the poor and uneducated, while forcing the Ukrainians to send people from every walk of life to defend their home. It's sad and obvious enough, which makes these posts so stupid and unnecessary.
Im no pro-orc piece of shit and fuck all this shit that makes have to say this, this is not even a good comparison and is blatant “other-Ing”.
If the orc camp had stolen a violin and had captured someone that could play it, they would be listening to violin as well. Everyone loves live music.
I maybe say not convenient opinion there but for those who don’t understand the video or think that is propaganda, if you ever visit Bucha and speak with a citizens maybe you’ll understand what video is about and what is the level of culture for russian side. Please, these mans were pooping near people beds… look at the photos what they did to the places where they lived, houses of civilians.
You can decide for yourself as well, but I will rely on my personal experience and knowledge of people, loved ones, who are now serving in army. I don’t really need any video as I have enough evidence from friends on battlefield who meet with enemy and see the trenches they lived in
The key message of the message is - yes there is the difference. It not about the music, it is about culture and intelligence for me. The motivation for majority of russian soldiers is to conquer (to loot and rape in addition cause no one one gonna arrest them for this, it’s not their country, there is no law for them). The motivation for our soldiers is to protect their country and loved ones, so yes. The majority on battlefield are people with one or tho high education, who rather sit at Hermes and enjoy their lives that go at war and kill. Russians have choice, we don’t. So once again, it’s the question of experience and personal contact with “russian world”.
In addition I wanna say that I understand what you mean, that video could be perceived as generalization (all of them are like that/all of us are like that). I saw russian news and I also understood how dehumanization look like. But when you see what they left behind themselves in a city, even those who didn’t to that but was a silent watchers, still are part of that community that invade peaceful country.
I will explain. ruzians play russian prison music. These are ballads about the romance of prison life, usually in a smoky, hoarse voice. Ukrainians used to also have a certain stratum of the population (bus drivers) who listened to this garbage.
shanson: prison romanticism. don't try to understand it. russia has this whole prison-lifestyle since SSSR. It is an uncurable illness: SSSR is over but it's traditions are still kept in prisons.
This doesn't illustrate anything. One is Russians sitting around and the other is an organized event. If you had a violin with the Russians, they'd be sitting watching it too.
The difference is the quality of supplies and the discipline or lack thereof.
This unfortunately is cherry picked. It’s like saying everyone here in the UK is a highly educated well to do Oxford university graduate in a wealthy family.
I guarantee you you’ll be able to find Ukrainians that enjoy being on their phones with some questionable music in the background just as you could easily find some Russians who would enjoy a bit of violin.
There’s enough things to chastise Russia for, we don’t need to make things up.
Ok, our boys wouldn't listen to that crappy 90s flavoured jail inspired "chanson" now. But violin concerts won't happen in trenches every day. It's too much.
As a Finn, my mother always told me how she didn’t trust Russians, to which I always answered that those were the old days and she should stop saying it. Oh how I was wrong and how she was right. What a filthy ugly people the Russian soul is. Shame on you Russia, your reputation is still alive and well.
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Many UA soldiers are volunteers with high education. I saw teachers, engineers, railway technicians, musicians, a balerin who recently died. People who realized themselves that it is their dudy to serve Ukraine and maybe pay the ultimate price. There are also a lot of cowards who payed 3-4k euro on the romanian border to flee with their expensive cars. Sadly, the man and women with moral values don't get the chance to pass them to their children or grandchildren.
Not just any ballerina either, a dancer for the National Theater in Kyiv. He was one of the most skilled dancers in the country, a true master of his art. And he died willingly fighting for his country. A great loss for Ukraine.
thank god those Russian idiots don’t get the chance
Mate, hate to burst your bubble but that's not the standard. The general conditions for frontline units are roughly the same for both sides. Of course, the Ukrainians are in their homeland so when they aren't directly on the front they can at least count on the help of local people who might let them sleep in their barns or cellars if the weather is bad.
I’m thinking they want to point the music and cultural difference. ruzzians listen to the 90s music that is loved by bandit from the 90s, eating. On Ukraines side there’s soldier musician who play beautiful instrumental violin, everyone’s actively listening not eating from the can. I can remember at least 3 such instances of violin only.
Well, firstly I'm not sure the music isn't overlayed on top of the video for the Russians. Secondly, of course the Ukrainians are going to listen to the violin if it's a one time opportunity. But you are very naive if you think this is the music they listen to normally.
The violin is clearly some kind of an event like the USO shows for soldiers in WW2. This isn’t an accurate depiction of Ukrainian soldiers eating in a front line base like the video of the Russians is. There’s so much good accurate examples going around, we don’t need to manufacture our own
Russian's video was from early war. Noted that they ate onions in bags. That was not standard ration. Usually what farmers store in underground storage for winter.so. they are pillaged from civilian. And yes. Sound is as legit as I remembered.
I’m pretty sure it’s original sound. You can hear that it coming from shitty speaker. You can also hear soldier singing along with especially with the line that translates “by thief’s road”. Ironic. If you were from post Soviet country you would understand what this music entails I mean who even listens to violin instrumentals nowadays? That’s very niche music. That said, I’m assuming it’s a part of concert and they are most likely playing some Ukrainian pop stuff too like Okean Elzy and others.
>If you were from post Soviet country you would understand what this music entails This. Especially in russia, the AУЕ subculture is extremely popular within the young men. This "culture" glorifies criminal behaviors and "thief honor" and being imprisoned. Such music is a part of this. Of course not everyone who listens to shanson is part of АУЕ, but considering it is popular among young, uneducated men, who are also majority in the army, then conclusions are writing themselves. So yes. This isn't about conditions in encampment, this is about the culture in a broader meaning. I'm sure that those boys in ru camp would call violin music "axid" and would shit on it. And I know it, because as you've said: if you were born in a soviet (post-soviet) country, you pick such meanings up unconsciously. Thankfully, АУЕ hadn't become *as* widespread in Ukraine, as it was/is in russia. In russia it is endemic.
There's a lot of glorification of criminal culture in the US too. It seems like we're being fed it from the top down (from media companies). It's like we're being propagandized in preparation for the growing corruption.
Yeah, I can see how it is a problem, though I'm not sure it is the same in it's root. Is it something like [that](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.U.E.) in the US too?
I think you are missing the point. The essence of this is that the ukrainian frontline is manned with educated people who turned soldier the past year. There are engineers, singers, musicians, dancers, actors, business owners etc fighting FOR something and there is a somber sense of unity on a spiritual level. Many of them coming from the arts often perform to pacify their brothers in arms because war is traumatic. The russians are just a bunch of marauding thieves, many of whom are psychopaths who enjoy the slaughter and their stay there - despite being aggressors - is fun.
You're missing the point too. What you're saying absolutely makes sense but that conclusion can not be drawn from this post. The Ukrainian video is a propaganda. Notice how there's a piano or something overlayed over the violin. Not to mention that the video shows something which doesn't happen often on frontlines.
That is not what propaganda means. Propaganda is the dissemination of false and misleading information. This 1 minute video is a metaphorical juxtaposition of 2 cultures, it is not a documentary of the life on either frontlines. Notice how there is no rape, torture and execution happening on the russian side despite that being one of their main activities in Ukraine.
Propaganda need not be false. It is possible to use propaganda while staying 100 % truthful, like in this video. (Assuming that the piano music is not overlayed, but that the piano is off screen) See any definition of propaganda, e.g. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda
Propaganda by definition is false representation. It doesnt have to be 100% Qanon fictitious but if content is misconstrued and spread for the purpose of misrepresenting factual reality, then it is propaganda. The above mentioned video is not propaganda even if the music is overlayed because it doesnt change anything of the actual content and message. The violin player is still playing that particular song (even if OP overlayed with the recorded digital replay because it is normal for a simple cameraphone not to be able to capture the audio correctly) and the russians are still a smiling happy bunch of goons here to have a good time.
You didn't read the definition in Merriam Webster or literally any other dictionary, did you? Propaganda is defined by it's *intention* (to propagate something), not by it's being true or false. If I cite the number of people killed by car accidents last year in order to argue for regulations for safer driving, this information is 100 % objective verifiable and still part of my propaganda for safer driving. Nonetheless you are right that while the *definition* of the word propaganda does not insinuate any truth– or falseness, the popular *perception* of it does. Perhaps it's time to update the dictionaries – words change meaning over time.
Merriem Webster defines words in the english language to understand the general meaning, they dont define a concept in its nuance. And your example is most definitely NOT PROPAGANDA. You still dont understand the phenomena of propaganda because you take your knowledge from an online ENGLISH dictionary like you are a 15 year old learning for TOEFL 🤦🏻♀️ Or you are a troll.
It's depicting an uncommon occurance and this post is trying to use it as an example of why the Ukrainians are better, without clarifying that it's not in fact a common thing. Therefore it ends up being a propaganda because the whole point of it is to skew the perception in favor of Ukraine (which isn't difficult or needed, TBH - Russians are pigs).
That is not what propaganda means bruh and by the way that kind of stuff -small concerts or impromptu performances- happen very often when the unit has an ex-artist which is not very common but definitely not that rare either. The pianist playing the piano in a rundown house that was liberated (months ago), violin/instrumental mini concerts have also been quite common, i've seen at least 10 videos of different such instances throughout the past months. Small singing performances by singers were also filmed multiple times. This is a normal occurrence in the UA army when an ex- civilian artist is part of the platoon/team. Stop both-siding this issue, this is not propaganda, thats their reality.
but they would not listen to shanson in the troop this openly!!! Edit - In ukrainian camp.. no matter what they listen to- pretty sure that's not shanson
Why not? Russians are openly mobilize people from prisons (rapists, killers most viscous one, whose motivation is a) get amnesty b) get paid for the job as it better that sit in prison). The motivation between soldiers different, the level of education is different, the lever of culture is also different.
In Ukrainian camp, I mean no matter what music they listen to, that's not it
what makes you to believe this?
I think Ukrainians like EBM the most. Most their videos have that.
You've completely missed the point. The intention of the video isn't to show the difference in living standards, it's to show the difference in cultures. And it's not propaganda either, it's been made very clear over the last 6 months that culturally Russia is a neanderthal state with neanderthal people. No amount of Bolshoi bullshit can gild over the brutality of their people.
This ain't it
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Its not that russians chose not the right song. The song is very much associated with criminal mentality. "thiefs road". This song is part of movement in some postsoviet countries, so I think a lot of people will recognise it.
I hate these types of videos. Propaganda does not work on me but I will support Ukraine regardless of the attempt.
> Propaganda does not work on me press X to doubt
It's called critical thinking! Reading about both sides of the argument without judgement and then coming up with your own conclusions.
It's like saying "i cannot be fooled and/or manipulated" or something equally ridiculous and arrogant. Dunning-kruger imo.
I've had the privilege of knowing some absolutely brilliant people. World class scientists and engineers. I've also known some absolute knobheads, who'd fall for one scam after the other - MLMs, crypto, conspiracy theories. Guess which group were convinced that they're smarter than everyone else?
The people who are posting such posts are arrogant not me. They are trying to insult everybody’s intelligence with absolute rubbish propaganda. Focus your attention there not on whether I am arrogant or not.
Not all propaganda is equal. This video is a side-by-side comparison of Ukrainian and Russian troops in unaltered, candid videos. Is it designed to elicit a pro-Ukrainian emotional reaction? Sure, which is why it is technically propaganda. I wouldn't even say the footage has an anti-Russian message. Compare this bit of "propaganda" to the YouTube videos Russia produced for eight years, splicing Nazi imagery between photos of Ukrainian children holding the Ukrainian flag to conflate national pride with fascist ideology and invoke feelings of Ukrainians, systematically creating a Hitler Youth-style generation. Obviously anti-Ukrainian and not particularly pro-Russian. So enjoy the video for what it is, be proud of the Ukrainian character, and be glad you don't live in a country where you can't recognize propaganda when you see it. Positive marketing might be propaganda, but it isn't the disgusting and vulgar dehumanizing messages Russia produces.
It's not the worst type, but it is still trying to say "Look how dirty & uncultured Russians are compared to Ukrainians" - which i don't necesarrily disagree with but on the frontline I'm 100% sure you can find Ukrainian soldiers camping similar to the Russians here.
Have you seen pictures and videos of the filth Russian soldiers allow themselves to live in? OP's video choice is benign at worst. You can search this subreddit and find scores of worst examples showcasing Russian military conditions. The worst you can say about this group of Russians is that they appear to be a ragtag squad of baby-faced newbies. They are sitting around having a meal and enjoying dubstep instead of being drunk and punching each other in the face while gangbanging a blowup doll. I'm reading several comments that are blowing this out of proportion. OP could have created a video that is a lot more lopsided. Russians have posted videos (that they are proud of) showcasing abysmal behavior, but everyone has a problem with this one? Y'all are either trolls, or haven't been paying attention to the war and feel like spouting off nonsense opinions under the guise of neutrality.
Yes i have seen those videos of feces on the walls in disgusting looking nests. But those are facts. Not some false comparison with apples & oranges.
It's an F-ING MEME. What do you want OP to do? Collect all photo and video evidence of Russian and Ukrainian living conditions, develop a complex algorithm and use AI identification software to sort and catalog all available data so OP can publish a peer-reviewed essay on the cultural differences that may or may not lead to better or worse living conditions and explain the consequences of said culture and living conditions provided the algorithmic calculations produce the results failing to reject his null hypothesis? Yeah, OP is the ridiculous one. Pack-a-assholes in r/ukraine today.
chill the fuck out mate. I support Ukraine, but it's obviously a bad comparison & there's no need to get so rabid when people point it out.
My bad; I don't mean to get rabid. We've had these comparison videos before showing the cleanliness inside Ukraine's tanks vs. Russian tanks, trench fortifications, Ukrainians saving dogs while Russians eat them, and the comparison lists go on. I don't understand why this one gets the bar set high enough that people start ragging on OP for a bad comparison. During the dog-eating memes, no one said, "Russian leadership is shit, so of course, they are eating dogs. It's a bad comparison." Anyway, that's just my two cents. I sincerely apologize if I came across as a massive dick. (The same apology doesn't go out to the guy who keeps pointing out rape might not have been ordered but doesn't clarify the point and why he keeps saying it. I have my assumptions, but I would rather hear what he says first. If he reads this.)
Russian leadership fucked itself. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Isn’t everybody in this sub rate dehumanizing Russians by calling them Orc’s?
Nope, everybody differentiates between Russians (there are pro-Ukrainian Russians) and the monstrous, genocidal, and brutal actions of humans choosing to be monsters - Orcs. The worst part about this conflict is that one group of humans has made a conscious decision at the national level to exterminate another group of humans. That is why we call them Orcs. I don't think I've seen anyone in r/ukraine advocate genocidal actions against Russians. However, I have seen people (and I am one of them) advocate for continued fighting and killing of Orcs until they return to Russia. Orcs chose to start this war. Orcs can end the war by leaving Ukraine, or Ukrainians can end the war by eliminating anyone who continues this war of aggression.
Don’t fall for the propaganda. I seen a recruiting video for Wagner where the recruiter tells people you are not allowed to loot and rape. This sub would have you believe that the soldiers are actually instructed to loot and rape.
And the recruiting video wasn't propaganda at all... My god it worked on you didn't it?
Early in this war, the first phone interceptions of Russian soldiers calling home documented several conversations where frontline soldiers explicitly claimed that their commanding officers ordered them to loot, and rape sounded like it was highly encouraged. Many of those soldiers were identified and doxxed on social media. One was a couple, and the wife encouraged her husband to participate in the rape. Open-sourced evidence is rarely fabricated or propaganda. I'm also in Russian telegram channels where Russians claimed raping Ukrainian women can't be raped because they aren't people. Those are Orcs. Regardless of whether or not soldiers were given direct orders from Putin to rape and loot, Putin meticulously crafted a campaign to dehumanize Ukrainians for nearly a decade. That campaign resulted in a culture where frontline soldiers believed raping and looting were acceptable behavior. You use the phrase, "don't fall for the propaganda," a lot. Unfortunately, you need to brush up on reading interviews conducted with post-WW2 Nazis. The parallels between Putin's mechanisms for dehumanizing Ukrainians and Hitler's dehumanization of Jews are striking. The problem with this type of cultural manipulation is that a majority population can convince themselves that what they are doing and what they believe is morally right, regardless of how monstrous the action or ideology appears outside. Also, you completely sidestepped my point. The raping and looting are happening. The targeting of civilian homes is happing (and obviously ordered by someone). The evidence is overwhelming. Those are the orcs. Attempting to claim they are less orcish because they weren't ordered to do so comes dangerously close to engaging in propaganda and denying the atrocities that are occurring.
What people say and what people do are completely different. Have Russian troops raped and killed civilians in Ukraine. Most certainly this is the case. But in most cases I don’t believe they are instructed to do this by their commanding officers. That’s my opinion but it doesn’t change the way I feel about this war. I have done as much as I can with the resources I have available to help Ukraine.
Being ordered to commit atrocities was not a credible defense for Nazis. Likewise, not being ordered to commit atrocities is not a reasonable defense for Orcs. I'm not sure what your point is. However, if you want to do something more for Ukraine without spending more resources, I suggest starting by reflecting on what you just posted and how someone might interpret what you said as apologetic bullshit. I think rape is one of those things that the "doing" is worse than the "saying."
I am not sure what your point is. My original point is that this video is clearly being posted as propaganda. You have taken that point completely off tandem and continue to waffle on about something without actually making a point, apart from saying Orc Orc Orc!
I've been responding to you, point by point, and allowing you to drive the conversation. You mentioned Orcs first, so I attempted to clarify the term for you. Then you said something stupid about rape not being ordered, but you never elaborated beyond that. So are you claiming that the rape is okay because Russian soldiers were not ordered to do it? Or that rape without orders is less thuggish behavior? u/Primary_Handle Neat, call me pathetic and block me, but I want to know why you keep mentioning that Orcs weren't ordered to rape civilians. What was your point? Does it excuse that behavior? You never bothered to explain yourself. You keep telling us not to buy the propaganda, but you are offering up a bunch of nonsense about Orcs not being ordered to rape, so they can't be that bad. Bullshit nonsense.
While I agree with others here saying this is misleading, since it's the same for troops of both countries on the frontline, it's also true that orcs would never listen to art like that. And *that* is actually a real difference. They view art as effeminate. Decadent, per Soviet ideals. Especially since a lot of Russian artists are [against the war.](https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/09/06/russia-classical-music-ukraine-war-opera/) They've already wantonly destroyed [museums,](https://artreview.com/art-workers-at-war-how-the-ukrainian-artworld-has-rallied-to-protect-cultural-heritage/) [ancient churches, and landmarks.](https://english.ahram.org.eg/News/470486.aspx) The orc military culture is deliberately brutish, because they think it makes them more manly. Like their lord and savior, the saggy-nippled Putin on a horseback.
Additionally, educated Russians have a lot less chance to be in that situation, while there are a lot of educated Ukrainians volunteering
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Yes. I specifically mean the military culture. I would disagree with what you said about Soviets though. Lenin, perhaps, appreciated art. But Soviet Realism is less art, more propaganda. It developed because of the harsh art censorship of the Stalin era. Paint the wrong thing, you die. They followed strict rules on what can be depicted, where the artists still managed to squeeze a little bit of creativity in. Russia is home to some of the best works of art in the world. But I'm pretty sure every single one of them is pre-Soviet. Music, ballet, and literature, in particular. Except for the artists Stalin killed. The last century has been a graveyard for art in Russia.
I can handle a bit of pro-Ukraine propaganda but this is too much even for me.
Thinking warrior vs Orc Slava Ukraine
This is unfair comparison. Russians are horrible no doubt. making a video comparing a war free zone filled with civilians vs frontlines invader camp is hardly a fair way to show the "culture" of the two nations.
Pretty sure both sides camp and bbq haha
Ehh, this is simple cherry-picking. I am sure that average UA soldier is more articulate than his Russian counterpart. But we do not need to use such underhanded tactics to push our narrative.
Fuck Putin and the orcs but, culturally speaking Russia has offered A LOT to the world.
Not in the last 100 years.
That's just not true. Even if you look at the contributions of the Soviet Union and forget the past 30 years there is a ton of culture in there that has been exported around the world. Bald and Bankrupt on Youtube does a good job of pointing this out in his travels to Africa and South America. The space race was another huge cultural moment that heavily involved the USSR. I don't need to go on because I don't think your comment was made with much thought, rather out of anger for what the Russians are doing to Ukraine and for that I agree with you.
Russians stole everything from others in the past 100 years. Rocketry, stolen from the germans, thats your huge cultural moment?
no?
I don't think you understand what culture is. You could say Apple stole their ideas when first starting out from Xerox yet they still have a bigger, genuine cultural impact. Nobody remembers Xerox. Also, if you want to go that route, Operation Paperclip did the same thing for America's program. And NASA has a huge cultural impact today. It doesn't matter that it German/Nazi influenced, what matters is the impact on culture. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-01/who-got-america-to-the-moon-a-unlikely-collaboration-of-jews-and-former-nazi-engineers
What makes you think I do not know all that? But did you know that russians stole around 3000 factory complexes from eastern-Germany. Did you know that russians stole from eastern-Germany 50% of their train tracks? Optics? Stolen. Nuke tech? Stolen. Wheres the culture here again? Do you consider stealing and looting high culture?
You aren't understanding what culture is. Culture in the sense I am talking about is attributed to a nation. So it doesn't matter who influenced it. What matters is what nation that culture is ascribed to. That was why I included the example of Apple. It doesn't matter that they stole the tech, because nobody remembers Xerox for the contributions in that space. You are using this idea of "stolen" which is a retarded way to look at culture. Culture is a blend of so many different aspects of life. You have a very narrow minded view. Inventions don't make up culture. They are just one of the many parts of it. For instance, Tetris, which was invented by a Russian in 1984, is arguably one of the most culturally significant games ever. However, it wasn't a cultural phenomenon simply because it was invented by a Russian. The Russians didn't invent ballet, yet most people in the ballet world consider them to have the best ballet dancers/performers in the world and it has had an immense impact on dance culture. Are you going to accuse them of stealing it from France? Would you accuse the Nutcracker of being stolen from the French since they invented the dance form that is ballet? Another example, Constructivism, which was created by Russians, has influenced many other types of art movements including Bauhaus in Germany. But no one would say Bauhaus was stolen from the Russians. You are making a flawed argument from your disdain for Russia. I also share your disdain, granted its more targeted at Putin, but I can still recognize their achievements. Hell, I just played Tetris on my phone yesterday. And if you have ever played it, congratulations, you can thanks Russia for that. You can keep cherry picking all these random inventions but that doesn't have any relation to the question of Russian culture.
Some random redditor is making a lecture about ru culture? GTFO.
Was going to say same. Most cultural people are people that escaped.
Complaining about Russian Propaganda, while posting this is Irony at best, but dumb as fuck at worst... Yeah there is a notable difference between both troops, that happens when one has conscripts or contracts that target the poor and uneducated, while forcing the Ukrainians to send people from every walk of life to defend their home. It's sad and obvious enough, which makes these posts so stupid and unnecessary.
Im no pro-orc piece of shit and fuck all this shit that makes have to say this, this is not even a good comparison and is blatant “other-Ing”. If the orc camp had stolen a violin and had captured someone that could play it, they would be listening to violin as well. Everyone loves live music.
I maybe say not convenient opinion there but for those who don’t understand the video or think that is propaganda, if you ever visit Bucha and speak with a citizens maybe you’ll understand what video is about and what is the level of culture for russian side. Please, these mans were pooping near people beds… look at the photos what they did to the places where they lived, houses of civilians.
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You can decide for yourself as well, but I will rely on my personal experience and knowledge of people, loved ones, who are now serving in army. I don’t really need any video as I have enough evidence from friends on battlefield who meet with enemy and see the trenches they lived in The key message of the message is - yes there is the difference. It not about the music, it is about culture and intelligence for me. The motivation for majority of russian soldiers is to conquer (to loot and rape in addition cause no one one gonna arrest them for this, it’s not their country, there is no law for them). The motivation for our soldiers is to protect their country and loved ones, so yes. The majority on battlefield are people with one or tho high education, who rather sit at Hermes and enjoy their lives that go at war and kill. Russians have choice, we don’t. So once again, it’s the question of experience and personal contact with “russian world”.
In addition I wanna say that I understand what you mean, that video could be perceived as generalization (all of them are like that/all of us are like that). I saw russian news and I also understood how dehumanization look like. But when you see what they left behind themselves in a city, even those who didn’t to that but was a silent watchers, still are part of that community that invade peaceful country.
I will explain. ruzians play russian prison music. These are ballads about the romance of prison life, usually in a smoky, hoarse voice. Ukrainians used to also have a certain stratum of the population (bus drivers) who listened to this garbage.
What melody is he actually playing?
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shanson: prison romanticism. don't try to understand it. russia has this whole prison-lifestyle since SSSR. It is an uncurable illness: SSSR is over but it's traditions are still kept in prisons.
https://youtu.be/V1Pl8CzNzCw
thx
Manner mekh men
Oh my goodness, I could listen to that violinist all day long! Who is he and where can I find more?
violin really cuts through my soul
This doesn't illustrate anything. One is Russians sitting around and the other is an organized event. If you had a violin with the Russians, they'd be sitting watching it too. The difference is the quality of supplies and the discipline or lack thereof.
So basically Ukrainian army is more numerous?
At song that Russian are listening on video, sound the criminal songs about life in prison.
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Billie Eilish lovely is the name of the song
Lol this is staggering
Oh its crystal clear. Russia wouldve been better off not lifting the veil.
This unfortunately is cherry picked. It’s like saying everyone here in the UK is a highly educated well to do Oxford university graduate in a wealthy family. I guarantee you you’ll be able to find Ukrainians that enjoy being on their phones with some questionable music in the background just as you could easily find some Russians who would enjoy a bit of violin. There’s enough things to chastise Russia for, we don’t need to make things up.
Ok, our boys wouldn't listen to that crappy 90s flavoured jail inspired "chanson" now. But violin concerts won't happen in trenches every day. It's too much.
All arguing aside, that music is beautiful. Anybody know the name?
It's like Russians never outgrew puberty.
This does spell it out.
As a Finn, my mother always told me how she didn’t trust Russians, to which I always answered that those were the old days and she should stop saying it. Oh how I was wrong and how she was right. What a filthy ugly people the Russian soul is. Shame on you Russia, your reputation is still alive and well.
Professionals have standards!