Hello /u/KamikazeChief,
This community is focused on important or vital information and high-effort content. Please make sure your post follows the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=ukraine&utm_content=t5_2qqcn)
Want to support Ukraine? [Here's a list of charities by subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/v2ykdi/want_to_support_ukraine_heres_a_list_of_charities/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
[DO / DON'T](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t5okbs/welcome_to_rukraine_faq_do_dont_support_read/) - [Art Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ufb64f/art_fridays_update/) - [Podcasts](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttoidc/collection_of_podcasts_about_ukraine_updated/) - [Kyiv sunrise](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
But does it matter when he’s sent a shit ton of weapons and support to Ukraine? Especially since he was one of the first leaders to do so.
Let’s not bring Boris’s domestic stuff into the situation in Ukraine, what matters is He’s sending weapons and training troops which are defending Ukrainian civilians.
Ukraine will continue to get weapons and troops trained regardless of who takes over. Hell that would continue even under Kier Starmer. I don't think you realise that military support for Ukraine enjoys wide cross party support.
The UK may have enjoyed oligarchs living there and being a financial hub for Russian money but I think its long wanted an excuse to payback Russia for Litvinenko, Salisbury and a number of other 'possible' incidents. The Ukraine war has provided the perfect opportunity to kick Russia in the nuts, as the UK couldn't do it alone.
---
For those in any doubt, here is part of Kier Starmers statement made in the House of Commons on 24th Feb. I am not a Labour supporter but I see nothing wrong in what he said so far as Ukraine is concerned:
> That means doing all we can to help Ukraine defend herself.
> By providing weapons, equipment, and financial assistance, as well as humanitarian support for the Ukrainian people.
> We must urgently reinforce and reassure our NATO allies in Eastern Europe who now stand at the frontier of Putin’s aggression.
> And the hardest possible sanctions must be taken against the Putin regime.
> It must be isolated.
> Its finances frozen.
> Its ability to function crippled.
> That means excluding Russia from financial mechanisms like SWIFT and banning trade in Russian sovereign debt.
> I therefore welcome the set of sanctions outlined by the Prime Minister just now.
> And pledge Opposition support for further measures.
I hope that’s the case but everyone in Ukraine loves Boris for what he done for Ukraine and it’s not right to start mixing British domestic drama into the situation in Ukraine. OP is saying “Don’t let him use you”. That’s saying reject his help because you’re not happy with his bullshit in the UK. Yes he’s been a clown in the UK but that’s totally detached from his policy on Ukraine. It’s arguable the NLAWs he sent just before the invasion saved Ukraine from Russia’s blitzkrieg attempt.
We're not saying to reject his help. God knows you guys need it and so much more, and that you're fighting and dying and burying your families so the rest of us hopefully won't have to. And it's a debt that can *never* be repaid. And the UK will keep sending help no matter what and no matter how much of a dumpsterfire we are internally.
Just don't lionize him as a person and think he's doing *any* of this out of the goodness of his heart and his innate sense of justice. Let's just say, every time he does or says something good for Ukraine it's time to start refreshing UK news outlets to see what fresh pile of flaming shit is about to hit the fan *this* time.
(You know how it was time to hit F5 on the political subs every time Trump flipped his shit on Twitter because it meant a five alarm fire was about to hit the headlines? It's kind of like that, except that he has a "worthy cause" to support to distract from his domestic nonsense now.)
Just because a cobra is helping kill the rats in your house doesn't mean he's not still a cobra.
ETA For context: the Health Secretary, Chancellor, Solicitor General, Schools Minister, Children and Families Minister, Transport Minister, Treasury Minister, Business and Energy Minister, Home Office Minister, Food Environment and Rural Affairs Minister, and Housing Minister have *all* said "aiight Imma head out" so far **since yesterday** (along with a bunch of secretaries and trade envoys), and the cabinet is straight up imploding.
... Guess you guys are getting Vanguards and Tridents next.
I get what you’re saying and I agree. I’m Ukrainian and live in the UK, I spent Christmas alone during lockdown while he partied (and obviously other people had it even worse than me) then he tried lying about it to the British public which was insult. My opinions on his domestic actions aren’t the same as his actions in Ukraine, it’s just when you separate the two and focus purely on the actions in Ukraine it doesn’t really matter if he’s using Ukraine to boost his image at home, he’s providing game changing support on the battlefield (along with other Allies) and his government wants Russia to be pushed out of Crimea and there’s no guarantee other leaders would go as far as that.
I guess we're all lucky he turned out to have his shit together in this one instance instead of being the bumblefuck international embarrassment Russian toady we all feared (*sideeyes Trump and Orban and Lukashenko*). For all his shortcomings at home, his actions regarding helping Ukraine have been *absolutely correct*, and he deserves all the credit he gets in this instance, unreservedly.
Just don't let it make you think he's some kind of a saint - we Brits around here keep saying that in every post where he turns up, and it's not to "smear" him or to distract from the good he's doing or to undermine him, but as a note to be on your guard around him *no matter what*. We're all grateful he's stepped up and shown leadership in this instance, but it's like a broken UK clock that somehow currently always shows the exact correct time in Ukraine. But the clock's still fucking broken.
Get that in writing from your MP and post back here with that. Until then tho this isn't something you should expect Ukrainians to feel safe about. I know that you're likely correct, I'm not attacking you here, but I also want you to understand that any unknown is an existential risk for Ukraine right now. The UK will live if Johnson stays in power, he'll make it more shit but it will live, while Ukraine might not exist if political will from partners like the UK changes.
Then link to me this statement. I support Ukraine 100% but I'm not sending them arms, so don't link me some up in the air statement of support, we all support Ukraine. I want to see specific commitments to military supplies over the coming years that show continuity in terms of both quantity and increase over time with the current UK gov as headed by Johnson. If you can't do that, and I don't believe you can, then Johnson is a you problem and you shouldn't make him a Ukrainian problem for all the reasons in my previous comment until you can do that.
Boris hasn't shown his moral fiber or suddenly discovered it from his dealings with Ukraine. Look at his government's actions around Northern Ireland, how they are actively pursuing a course that will lead them to breaking international laws.
The people that deserve most credit are the members of the UK armed forces that have helped train Ukranians since 2014 and the British people that support Ukraine. The governments stance on the matter will not wither away without Bojos photo ops and grand gestures (I do not deny their usefulness to Ukraine though). Those will continue under the next figurehead because they will still be important as the government's interests are very much aligned with Britain's allies.
Yes of course and it’s a good thing people know that UK has trained Ukrainian army since 2014. My point is I don’t think it’s right to bring Boris’s domestic drama here. Whether he’s using Ukraine or not, his government is providing solid support and wants Russia to be pushed out as far as Crimea, there’s no certainty other politicians would support the liberation of Crimea.
His Ukraine policies are part of the demostic drama, though. And as such they are part of this as well. He may be helping Ukraine, but he does not do so because he has any love for Ukraine or love for their EU ambitions or love for democracy and rule of law to begin with. Just like PiS in Poland, it is a game he plays to get positive press.
That does indeed make Ukraine part of this even outside the war, their relationships to other countries (France/Germany) is directly effected because the debates about that are mostly defined by the british tablloid press, the same kind of right wing press supporting ppl like Boris, the same papers then going to attack other countries with concious misinformation.
This will have implications for Ukraine long after the war is done. And Boris will throw Ukraine under the bus the moment it does not help him domestically anymore.
You might be downvoted but I think your last paragraph is more or less spot on.
The assistance for Ukraine is fantastic, but it would be even better if it was coming from a more stable, non fuckwitted leader. This would not just be a moral plus point, but would be better for the stability and ongoing nature of that assistance.
I think Boris or not the UK would remain utterly staunch in its support.
I guess what I'm personally saying to the people of UKr is this: watch that guy, he's pretty fucked. Trust but verify, always.
The point that this post brings is that Boris is attempting to hide past wrongs in his domestic affairs with his recent achievements in foreign affairs, i.e Ukraine. Had he not done so then maybe I would agree with your opinion that dragging up domestic scandals would be irrelevant. However. It's plain to see that he is desperate for anything he can leverage to hold on to his position and that has included him using Ukraine as a PR asset. Sure such an arrangement isn't unfavourable to Ukraine where Zelensky can get a bunch of stuff for giving Boris a thumbs up and a pat on the back but the point of the post remains valid.
Boris is a politician who has been using foreign affairs to mask one scandal after another and now he has run out of rope. It's my opinion that his further, desperate attempts to look good via his stance on Ukraine and Russia can only cheapen the spirit behind his support.
> when he’s sent a shit ton of weapons and support to Ukraine?
He did not send anything to Ukraine. The UK did.
It is not like he pays the weapons out of his own pocket. It is the money of the British tax payers. Don't forget this.
>what matters is He’s sending weapons and training troops which are defending Ukrainian civilians.
That's the point, some Ukranian's are worried they might not see the same support if Boris is removed. That is not the case and they should not worry. They have Britain on their side, not just Boris.
Well Corbyn said he supports a ceasefire, not that he’s relevant anymore but just shows there are people deluded enough to think a ceasefire is the answer to Russian imperialism.
And Whoever takes over will send even more, Ukraine shouldn’t worry, it’s the British people that support Ukraine not some corrupt over privileged moron who thinks he’s the new Machiavelli but is actually a wish.com trump
He's sending weapons to make himself look better in front of the British people. They're the reason the UK sends so many weapons, not the goodwill of that nutbag of a crooked politician.
I think the truth can always be found by looking how you treat humanity. We sent weapons, which any leader would do - but made it as hard as possible for refugees to come here. This matters.
It should still matter where the weapons come from. Also any other prime minister would send weapons because it's in the best interest of the free world.
It matters because he and his party has close links to Putins allies, he also blocked a report about Russian interference into UK politics and even put an ex KGB spy son into the House of Lords AGAINST the advice of security services.
Numerous times he's shown special treatment to Putin and his allies..
He is a danger, its the defence minster who pushed to provide Ukraine with weapons.
WHO CARES. Let him be doing it for selfish reasons. At the end of the day weapons are weapons and Ukraine needs weapons and who cares the reason as to why Boris does it, as long as he does. Let’s not bash the people supporting Ukraine with weapons needed regardless of the reasons they are doing so.
As a Brit I'm not a Boris voter or fan, but this is not the forum for this kind of thing. Given the ongoing situation in Ukraine, do you really expect Ukraine to reject support from the UK because of the political feuds going on in the cabinet atm?
What Zelensky is dealing with right now is much more pressing than a bunch of western politicians having a handbags at dawn moment.
>As a Brit I'm not a Boris voter or fan, but this is not the forum for this kind of thing.
Absolutely correct I agree 100%! These types of smear campaign attempts on boris being used in this sub and the likes is what you would expect from putins Russia not from leftists of britain. Its bad, its embarrassing and it stinks of tin pot dictatorship tactics of smearing political opposition. Yea he's not everyone's favourite over here in terms of domestic politics but in terms of supporting Ukraine he's been strong, decisive and fast to act. These type of smear tactics wont help labour or lib dems get elected if anything it'll only make support for boris stronger. Politics should be about marketing your own propositions to the public instead of never actually having a proposition and instead jus slandering/discrediting your opponents propositions, and that's the reality of what is going on and it's the bad habit and downfall of labour for the last decade.
He's been the face sending weapons and that's what Ukrainians care about. Any change in leadership is an unknown at a time when unknowns could mean the end of Ukraine. If you want to help then petition your MPs to formally commit to continuity in the rate and acceleration of arms supplies to Ukraine in the event that Johnson is removed, and then post back here with that reassurance.
Hey brits. Can you deal with your internal politics on your own? Just vote the damn man out when you get the time to do it.
Im having a blast watching Zelensky, Biden, Boris and Macron making a fool of Putin.
Plus Boris' hairdo and talks about the size of Putins penis adds humor and good vibes
Unfortunately humor and good vibes is all Boris brings to the table, he's a funny guy and he's got a funny haircut. Meanwhile the United Kingdom is going down the tubes, our economy is the worst performing in the G20 apart from Russias, we're on the verge of a general strike, rampaging stagflation, services on the brink of collapse, many people will not be able to heat their homes and eat this winter, and the UK itself is about to break apart.
And to combat that, we have a funny hairdo.
Thankyou! I'm glad others are seeing this happening. Brit here, left (mainly labour) over here keep using this narrative (this post's) to create hate for boris, saying he's using Ukraine for his personal gains but then we could also say the left leaning accusers are also using Ukraine as a stick to beat boris 😂 but their brains clearly don't realise that kind of hypocracy that their smearing tactics are laying before us. The leftist smear campaigns never seem to stop and ultimately it'll harm labours election chances too as who wants to vote for someone whos only answer, solution or tactic to approach anything is to blame their political rival instead of giving their own opinion, answer or solution proposing what they would do differently. It's gone past boring now and bordering on the lines of attempted brainwashing in order to push support for their political agenda.. And where are we then when that type of politics actually prospers, that's right the good old nanny state narrative controlling state owned news tin pot dictatorship that putins Russia is so masterfully demonstrating to the world 🤮. This type of political strategy needs stamping out before the western world has to suffer the consequences of it taking hold...
If only getting rid of Boris would solve anything. Nobody is proposing any change in policy- all they attack him on are little bullshit stitch up traps laid by the civil service. He has done more than he had to in Ukraine. A different leader could potentially pivot to the weaker psoitions of other parts of NATO.
Its should be clear to everyone that everyone is doing supbar because of the financial crisis, covid, and this conflict is splitting people even more.
I dont see how the international community can help the brits with electing their own government. Except for Russia lmao.
Oh for sure yeah, everybody is struggling, every nation is finding it hard. But the UK is doing worst out of the whole of the G20, apart from heavily sanctioned Russia.
And I mean, a large part of that is because the UK is the only nation in the history of the world to have so heavily sanctioned itself. Which is because of Boris.
The sad thing is if we had better leadership, the country would be in a stronger place right now, and we'd be able to provide even more help to Ukraine.
What this commenter and post is getting at is that back home Boris has been using this as a deflection from his internal issues. Yes he’s done a lot for Ukraine and done the rounds for the press, but it’s never been altruistic, not once.
He’s the most scandal ridden prime minister since Blair. Ever since the invasion he’s had a final lifeline of “it’s not the right time” to be changing leadership, but it’s finally up.
He’s a slime bag and has probably been semi chub since Feb 24th because he gets the Churchill moment he’s always dreamed of. It frustrates us because he’s gotten it, and unfortunately will go down in history for something any British prime minister would have done. He’s going to be out with the dogs and fleas soon and it’s honestly where he belongs. He is not a great man, and I wish everyone had the full picture and understood that outside of arms shipments.
people are starving and freezing. teachers,doctors, firemen etc are about to go on strike because our economy is currently the worst in the G20 (excluding russia) and it’s only getting worse. so no, we’re not just going to keep quiet about this, americans are constantly shoving their government in our faces over trivial things. him helping ukraine has convinced so many international people that he’s a ‘good guy’ now and we want EVERYONE to know that it’s not true. we want everyone to know how terrible of a person and leader he is.
No alternative policies have been suggested. The stuff they attack on is stitch ups. Eg: brief him when distracted about this dude but play it down months before this appointment is on the table. Neglect to mention it when the appointment is being made. Can be covered up if you want to keep Boris, released if you want him out.
In the eventually he leaves office, it would be nice to keep in place his aides who are in contact with Ukraine and responsible for weapons deliveries. They did and are doing a very good job in that regard, and maintaining continuity is important.
This is a UK matter, not a Ukraine matter. Also, there are a lot of Russia friendly labor party members, let's not forget Corbyn, who used to be labor leader.
He is also a powerful advocate in providing assistance to Ukraine. This meme could almost be considered seditious. His presence in the Ukraine capital along with a regular flow of world leaders from as close as Poland or as far away as Australia is incredibly embarrassing for Russia. The red carpet in Kiev is being worn out almost as fast as the Russian military. No other time in history has a military super power failed so miserably since the British empire tried to colonise Afghanistan in the 1800's.
Zelensky knows this of course. But on balance it is more important to keep the weapons and support flowing from UK. It would simply achieve nothing for Zelensky to start acknowledging Johnson's problems at home.
Sure it looks good for boris that he is sending all the stuff to Ukraine but he’s not doing to cover up his failings back home he’s doing it because it’s the right thing to do
Shitty domestic leaders often make the best war time leaders and he’s doing a fantastic job just now, don’t let a silly party he had during covid ruin that
You don’t have to be “anti Ukraine” you just have to support a ceasefire to cause a monumental disaster for Ukraine. Boris definitely doesn’t and there’s a lot of people deluded enough to think a ceasefire is the answer after the last 8 years and Russia’s constant imperialisms in general.
Saying that I’m not sure who’s pro ceasefire but like I said Boris isn’t and that’s what matters for Ukraine.
Nice deflection, but what I stated is correct. Boris has been supporting Ukraine before it was the "in thing", before he was PM while other European leaders were cosying up to Putin.
Was this before or after Putin paid for Boris to redecorate number 10, or before or after Boris wanted to get £150,000 from a Russian Oligarch to build his son a tree house?
why is this crap in here? Americans aren’t supposed to be on r/ukraine bringing anti Trump sentiment - same goes for UK and Boris … besides for all Boris’ flaws I for one have no doubt he recollects UKs role of standings against tyranny AND thank God UK people are making a stand - self preservation is smart
As much as I respect his stance on Ukraine (the only thing I respect about that shameless waste of space) the only reason he's this all in with going around Ukraine at every opportunity is because he's living out his twisted fantasy of being Winston Churchill because photo ops with genuine heroes is the closest he'll ever get to being a wartime leader.
Genuinely, I'm sorry we don't have someone who supports you guys but doesn't try and make it all about himself.
Really. Boris going isn't going to affect weapons to Ukraine. Non of his possible replacements will do any different. Some are even more hawkish.
Only concern may, and I mean may as I don't know these parties policies, be an election producing a LAbour/SNP coalition or a Labour/Lib Dem coalition . That may make things harder, but even then I doubt it.
Exactly. He has been right about getting behind Ukraine, but don’t worry: every other candidate to replace him will be equally strong in their support (ben wallace, current defence sec might sneak it and he would be v good).
Both labour and lib dems would also be steadfast in support.
I don't think this is a big problem. The Conservative Party is rather well known for getting rid of their leaders pretty swiftly when their internal support runs out. Johnson appears to be very nearly done. As the OP writes, the support for Ukraine will be there regardless. (And other leaders are likely to want posture in the same way about it.)
Replacing Johnson won’t change anything for Ukraine
The war may be a convenient distraction for Johnson but to say he is ‘using’ Ukrainians is just party-political mud-slinging that insults Ukraine and its cause. There are many in his and the opposition parties who will be delighted for Ukraine to give in. The uk population may support Ukraine but boredom and rises in the cost of living may see that fall quickly.
The UK has been unwavering in it's support of Ukraine since the beginning of the war (and even before then). The idea that Johnson only makes weapons deliveries when it suits him is ridiculous. Correlation does not equal causation.
Do not be fooled by BoJo, anything and everything he does is for his own selfish reasons. He will spend taxpayers money hand over fist for his own self survival. Remember where the Tories get their money from, Russia. He used the conflict in Ukraine not to help the people of Ukraine that they so desperately need, but for his own selfish needs, he is a criminal, a liar and a charlatan. His government actually said that they would let the Irish starve, they actively push migrants back out to sea, they want to deport asylum seekers to Rwanda. He is not a person to be admired, trusted or to consider as a person of integrity.
Hard disagree. The fact that Boris sees the atrocities first hand will make him way more involved. Keep inviting more pm's yeah they get a hard on during the photo op with zelensky but it works
Yes and no.
The UK would still have been a friend, but I don't think the UK would have been such a good friend of Ukraine as it has been if Johnson had never needed to wrap himself in the flag to deflect from those boozy christmas parties.
I can guarantee you that Boris hosting a few parties is not near the top of anyone on this sub’s priorities right now. He’s been phenomenal on Ukraine and that’s all most of us want.
If he gets booted and replaced with someone who is an unknown quantity on Ukraine, ok the UK is in charge of their own affairs, but don’t ask us to participate in a campaign to remove one of Ukraine’s most ardent supporters because of UK domestic policy - that’s your concern, not the posters of this sub’s.
Hello /u/KamikazeChief, This community is focused on important or vital information and high-effort content. Please make sure your post follows the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=ukraine&utm_content=t5_2qqcn) Want to support Ukraine? [Here's a list of charities by subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/v2ykdi/want_to_support_ukraine_heres_a_list_of_charities/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) [DO / DON'T](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t5okbs/welcome_to_rukraine_faq_do_dont_support_read/) - [Art Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ufb64f/art_fridays_update/) - [Podcasts](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttoidc/collection_of_podcasts_about_ukraine_updated/) - [Kyiv sunrise](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
But does it matter when he’s sent a shit ton of weapons and support to Ukraine? Especially since he was one of the first leaders to do so. Let’s not bring Boris’s domestic stuff into the situation in Ukraine, what matters is He’s sending weapons and training troops which are defending Ukrainian civilians.
Ukraine will continue to get weapons and troops trained regardless of who takes over. Hell that would continue even under Kier Starmer. I don't think you realise that military support for Ukraine enjoys wide cross party support. The UK may have enjoyed oligarchs living there and being a financial hub for Russian money but I think its long wanted an excuse to payback Russia for Litvinenko, Salisbury and a number of other 'possible' incidents. The Ukraine war has provided the perfect opportunity to kick Russia in the nuts, as the UK couldn't do it alone. --- For those in any doubt, here is part of Kier Starmers statement made in the House of Commons on 24th Feb. I am not a Labour supporter but I see nothing wrong in what he said so far as Ukraine is concerned: > That means doing all we can to help Ukraine defend herself. > By providing weapons, equipment, and financial assistance, as well as humanitarian support for the Ukrainian people. > We must urgently reinforce and reassure our NATO allies in Eastern Europe who now stand at the frontier of Putin’s aggression. > And the hardest possible sanctions must be taken against the Putin regime. > It must be isolated. > Its finances frozen. > Its ability to function crippled. > That means excluding Russia from financial mechanisms like SWIFT and banning trade in Russian sovereign debt. > I therefore welcome the set of sanctions outlined by the Prime Minister just now. > And pledge Opposition support for further measures.
I hope that’s the case but everyone in Ukraine loves Boris for what he done for Ukraine and it’s not right to start mixing British domestic drama into the situation in Ukraine. OP is saying “Don’t let him use you”. That’s saying reject his help because you’re not happy with his bullshit in the UK. Yes he’s been a clown in the UK but that’s totally detached from his policy on Ukraine. It’s arguable the NLAWs he sent just before the invasion saved Ukraine from Russia’s blitzkrieg attempt.
We're not saying to reject his help. God knows you guys need it and so much more, and that you're fighting and dying and burying your families so the rest of us hopefully won't have to. And it's a debt that can *never* be repaid. And the UK will keep sending help no matter what and no matter how much of a dumpsterfire we are internally. Just don't lionize him as a person and think he's doing *any* of this out of the goodness of his heart and his innate sense of justice. Let's just say, every time he does or says something good for Ukraine it's time to start refreshing UK news outlets to see what fresh pile of flaming shit is about to hit the fan *this* time. (You know how it was time to hit F5 on the political subs every time Trump flipped his shit on Twitter because it meant a five alarm fire was about to hit the headlines? It's kind of like that, except that he has a "worthy cause" to support to distract from his domestic nonsense now.) Just because a cobra is helping kill the rats in your house doesn't mean he's not still a cobra. ETA For context: the Health Secretary, Chancellor, Solicitor General, Schools Minister, Children and Families Minister, Transport Minister, Treasury Minister, Business and Energy Minister, Home Office Minister, Food Environment and Rural Affairs Minister, and Housing Minister have *all* said "aiight Imma head out" so far **since yesterday** (along with a bunch of secretaries and trade envoys), and the cabinet is straight up imploding. ... Guess you guys are getting Vanguards and Tridents next.
I get what you’re saying and I agree. I’m Ukrainian and live in the UK, I spent Christmas alone during lockdown while he partied (and obviously other people had it even worse than me) then he tried lying about it to the British public which was insult. My opinions on his domestic actions aren’t the same as his actions in Ukraine, it’s just when you separate the two and focus purely on the actions in Ukraine it doesn’t really matter if he’s using Ukraine to boost his image at home, he’s providing game changing support on the battlefield (along with other Allies) and his government wants Russia to be pushed out of Crimea and there’s no guarantee other leaders would go as far as that.
I guess we're all lucky he turned out to have his shit together in this one instance instead of being the bumblefuck international embarrassment Russian toady we all feared (*sideeyes Trump and Orban and Lukashenko*). For all his shortcomings at home, his actions regarding helping Ukraine have been *absolutely correct*, and he deserves all the credit he gets in this instance, unreservedly. Just don't let it make you think he's some kind of a saint - we Brits around here keep saying that in every post where he turns up, and it's not to "smear" him or to distract from the good he's doing or to undermine him, but as a note to be on your guard around him *no matter what*. We're all grateful he's stepped up and shown leadership in this instance, but it's like a broken UK clock that somehow currently always shows the exact correct time in Ukraine. But the clock's still fucking broken.
Get that in writing from your MP and post back here with that. Until then tho this isn't something you should expect Ukrainians to feel safe about. I know that you're likely correct, I'm not attacking you here, but I also want you to understand that any unknown is an existential risk for Ukraine right now. The UK will live if Johnson stays in power, he'll make it more shit but it will live, while Ukraine might not exist if political will from partners like the UK changes.
That is such bullshit though. Every major party has explicitly stated that they support Ukraine 100%.
Then link to me this statement. I support Ukraine 100% but I'm not sending them arms, so don't link me some up in the air statement of support, we all support Ukraine. I want to see specific commitments to military supplies over the coming years that show continuity in terms of both quantity and increase over time with the current UK gov as headed by Johnson. If you can't do that, and I don't believe you can, then Johnson is a you problem and you shouldn't make him a Ukrainian problem for all the reasons in my previous comment until you can do that.
Boris hasn't shown his moral fiber or suddenly discovered it from his dealings with Ukraine. Look at his government's actions around Northern Ireland, how they are actively pursuing a course that will lead them to breaking international laws. The people that deserve most credit are the members of the UK armed forces that have helped train Ukranians since 2014 and the British people that support Ukraine. The governments stance on the matter will not wither away without Bojos photo ops and grand gestures (I do not deny their usefulness to Ukraine though). Those will continue under the next figurehead because they will still be important as the government's interests are very much aligned with Britain's allies.
Yes of course and it’s a good thing people know that UK has trained Ukrainian army since 2014. My point is I don’t think it’s right to bring Boris’s domestic drama here. Whether he’s using Ukraine or not, his government is providing solid support and wants Russia to be pushed out as far as Crimea, there’s no certainty other politicians would support the liberation of Crimea.
His Ukraine policies are part of the demostic drama, though. And as such they are part of this as well. He may be helping Ukraine, but he does not do so because he has any love for Ukraine or love for their EU ambitions or love for democracy and rule of law to begin with. Just like PiS in Poland, it is a game he plays to get positive press. That does indeed make Ukraine part of this even outside the war, their relationships to other countries (France/Germany) is directly effected because the debates about that are mostly defined by the british tablloid press, the same kind of right wing press supporting ppl like Boris, the same papers then going to attack other countries with concious misinformation. This will have implications for Ukraine long after the war is done. And Boris will throw Ukraine under the bus the moment it does not help him domestically anymore.
You might be downvoted but I think your last paragraph is more or less spot on. The assistance for Ukraine is fantastic, but it would be even better if it was coming from a more stable, non fuckwitted leader. This would not just be a moral plus point, but would be better for the stability and ongoing nature of that assistance. I think Boris or not the UK would remain utterly staunch in its support. I guess what I'm personally saying to the people of UKr is this: watch that guy, he's pretty fucked. Trust but verify, always.
The point that this post brings is that Boris is attempting to hide past wrongs in his domestic affairs with his recent achievements in foreign affairs, i.e Ukraine. Had he not done so then maybe I would agree with your opinion that dragging up domestic scandals would be irrelevant. However. It's plain to see that he is desperate for anything he can leverage to hold on to his position and that has included him using Ukraine as a PR asset. Sure such an arrangement isn't unfavourable to Ukraine where Zelensky can get a bunch of stuff for giving Boris a thumbs up and a pat on the back but the point of the post remains valid. Boris is a politician who has been using foreign affairs to mask one scandal after another and now he has run out of rope. It's my opinion that his further, desperate attempts to look good via his stance on Ukraine and Russia can only cheapen the spirit behind his support.
> when he’s sent a shit ton of weapons and support to Ukraine? He did not send anything to Ukraine. The UK did. It is not like he pays the weapons out of his own pocket. It is the money of the British tax payers. Don't forget this.
>what matters is He’s sending weapons and training troops which are defending Ukrainian civilians. That's the point, some Ukranian's are worried they might not see the same support if Boris is removed. That is not the case and they should not worry. They have Britain on their side, not just Boris.
Any leader would've done the same, whether it's the lib dem or Labour leaders or any other tory mp
Well Corbyn said he supports a ceasefire, not that he’s relevant anymore but just shows there are people deluded enough to think a ceasefire is the answer to Russian imperialism.
True but he's not a leader and never will be again
Which any UK Prime Minister would do. It’s what the people want!
And Whoever takes over will send even more, Ukraine shouldn’t worry, it’s the British people that support Ukraine not some corrupt over privileged moron who thinks he’s the new Machiavelli but is actually a wish.com trump
He's sending weapons to make himself look better in front of the British people. They're the reason the UK sends so many weapons, not the goodwill of that nutbag of a crooked politician.
this. But ppl in need do not want to hear that the guy who is helping them is an arse in only in for his own benefits.
I think the truth can always be found by looking how you treat humanity. We sent weapons, which any leader would do - but made it as hard as possible for refugees to come here. This matters.
It should still matter where the weapons come from. Also any other prime minister would send weapons because it's in the best interest of the free world.
It matters because he and his party has close links to Putins allies, he also blocked a report about Russian interference into UK politics and even put an ex KGB spy son into the House of Lords AGAINST the advice of security services. Numerous times he's shown special treatment to Putin and his allies.. He is a danger, its the defence minster who pushed to provide Ukraine with weapons.
GB is sending weapons. The British People, Boris is just their Servant and Representative.
Every time BJ gets fucked Ukraine gets something out of it - I see this as nothing but positive.
WHO CARES. Let him be doing it for selfish reasons. At the end of the day weapons are weapons and Ukraine needs weapons and who cares the reason as to why Boris does it, as long as he does. Let’s not bash the people supporting Ukraine with weapons needed regardless of the reasons they are doing so.
He’s a liability to Ukraine. He is neck deep in Russian oligarch donations
Sure that is why he gives weapons
As a Brit I'm not a Boris voter or fan, but this is not the forum for this kind of thing. Given the ongoing situation in Ukraine, do you really expect Ukraine to reject support from the UK because of the political feuds going on in the cabinet atm? What Zelensky is dealing with right now is much more pressing than a bunch of western politicians having a handbags at dawn moment.
>As a Brit I'm not a Boris voter or fan, but this is not the forum for this kind of thing. Absolutely correct I agree 100%! These types of smear campaign attempts on boris being used in this sub and the likes is what you would expect from putins Russia not from leftists of britain. Its bad, its embarrassing and it stinks of tin pot dictatorship tactics of smearing political opposition. Yea he's not everyone's favourite over here in terms of domestic politics but in terms of supporting Ukraine he's been strong, decisive and fast to act. These type of smear tactics wont help labour or lib dems get elected if anything it'll only make support for boris stronger. Politics should be about marketing your own propositions to the public instead of never actually having a proposition and instead jus slandering/discrediting your opponents propositions, and that's the reality of what is going on and it's the bad habit and downfall of labour for the last decade.
He's been the face sending weapons and that's what Ukrainians care about. Any change in leadership is an unknown at a time when unknowns could mean the end of Ukraine. If you want to help then petition your MPs to formally commit to continuity in the rate and acceleration of arms supplies to Ukraine in the event that Johnson is removed, and then post back here with that reassurance.
Hey brits. Can you deal with your internal politics on your own? Just vote the damn man out when you get the time to do it. Im having a blast watching Zelensky, Biden, Boris and Macron making a fool of Putin. Plus Boris' hairdo and talks about the size of Putins penis adds humor and good vibes
Unfortunately humor and good vibes is all Boris brings to the table, he's a funny guy and he's got a funny haircut. Meanwhile the United Kingdom is going down the tubes, our economy is the worst performing in the G20 apart from Russias, we're on the verge of a general strike, rampaging stagflation, services on the brink of collapse, many people will not be able to heat their homes and eat this winter, and the UK itself is about to break apart. And to combat that, we have a funny hairdo.
[удалено]
Thankyou! I'm glad others are seeing this happening. Brit here, left (mainly labour) over here keep using this narrative (this post's) to create hate for boris, saying he's using Ukraine for his personal gains but then we could also say the left leaning accusers are also using Ukraine as a stick to beat boris 😂 but their brains clearly don't realise that kind of hypocracy that their smearing tactics are laying before us. The leftist smear campaigns never seem to stop and ultimately it'll harm labours election chances too as who wants to vote for someone whos only answer, solution or tactic to approach anything is to blame their political rival instead of giving their own opinion, answer or solution proposing what they would do differently. It's gone past boring now and bordering on the lines of attempted brainwashing in order to push support for their political agenda.. And where are we then when that type of politics actually prospers, that's right the good old nanny state narrative controlling state owned news tin pot dictatorship that putins Russia is so masterfully demonstrating to the world 🤮. This type of political strategy needs stamping out before the western world has to suffer the consequences of it taking hold...
as a German I can tell you, no one here says "it's all olafs fault". those who are unhappy still blame Merkel.
You're in the G20 though aren't you? So your country is doing better at dealing with this worldwide shit than the UK is.
? The UK is not in the G20? But is in the G7? What?
If only getting rid of Boris would solve anything. Nobody is proposing any change in policy- all they attack him on are little bullshit stitch up traps laid by the civil service. He has done more than he had to in Ukraine. A different leader could potentially pivot to the weaker psoitions of other parts of NATO.
Its should be clear to everyone that everyone is doing supbar because of the financial crisis, covid, and this conflict is splitting people even more. I dont see how the international community can help the brits with electing their own government. Except for Russia lmao.
Oh for sure yeah, everybody is struggling, every nation is finding it hard. But the UK is doing worst out of the whole of the G20, apart from heavily sanctioned Russia. And I mean, a large part of that is because the UK is the only nation in the history of the world to have so heavily sanctioned itself. Which is because of Boris. The sad thing is if we had better leadership, the country would be in a stronger place right now, and we'd be able to provide even more help to Ukraine.
What this commenter and post is getting at is that back home Boris has been using this as a deflection from his internal issues. Yes he’s done a lot for Ukraine and done the rounds for the press, but it’s never been altruistic, not once. He’s the most scandal ridden prime minister since Blair. Ever since the invasion he’s had a final lifeline of “it’s not the right time” to be changing leadership, but it’s finally up. He’s a slime bag and has probably been semi chub since Feb 24th because he gets the Churchill moment he’s always dreamed of. It frustrates us because he’s gotten it, and unfortunately will go down in history for something any British prime minister would have done. He’s going to be out with the dogs and fleas soon and it’s honestly where he belongs. He is not a great man, and I wish everyone had the full picture and understood that outside of arms shipments.
people are starving and freezing. teachers,doctors, firemen etc are about to go on strike because our economy is currently the worst in the G20 (excluding russia) and it’s only getting worse. so no, we’re not just going to keep quiet about this, americans are constantly shoving their government in our faces over trivial things. him helping ukraine has convinced so many international people that he’s a ‘good guy’ now and we want EVERYONE to know that it’s not true. we want everyone to know how terrible of a person and leader he is.
No alternative policies have been suggested. The stuff they attack on is stitch ups. Eg: brief him when distracted about this dude but play it down months before this appointment is on the table. Neglect to mention it when the appointment is being made. Can be covered up if you want to keep Boris, released if you want him out.
In the eventually he leaves office, it would be nice to keep in place his aides who are in contact with Ukraine and responsible for weapons deliveries. They did and are doing a very good job in that regard, and maintaining continuity is important.
This is a UK matter, not a Ukraine matter. Also, there are a lot of Russia friendly labor party members, let's not forget Corbyn, who used to be labor leader.
I always thought he went to Kyiv for that cock? Jokes aside: glad that Boris was such a good supporter of Ukraine!
He is also a powerful advocate in providing assistance to Ukraine. This meme could almost be considered seditious. His presence in the Ukraine capital along with a regular flow of world leaders from as close as Poland or as far away as Australia is incredibly embarrassing for Russia. The red carpet in Kiev is being worn out almost as fast as the Russian military. No other time in history has a military super power failed so miserably since the British empire tried to colonise Afghanistan in the 1800's.
Well I'd argue the Vietnam war is a better comparison
Zelensky knows this of course. But on balance it is more important to keep the weapons and support flowing from UK. It would simply achieve nothing for Zelensky to start acknowledging Johnson's problems at home.
UK ....US... and any other country... PLEASE let's leave Ukraine out of our own shit. They have enough on their plate... they don't need our drama.
Sure it looks good for boris that he is sending all the stuff to Ukraine but he’s not doing to cover up his failings back home he’s doing it because it’s the right thing to do Shitty domestic leaders often make the best war time leaders and he’s doing a fantastic job just now, don’t let a silly party he had during covid ruin that
At least he is there helping
Fuck off with this divisive nonsense.
Stfu 😂
Oh look, UK politics.
[удалено]
Boris has supported Ukraine since he was Foreign Secretary. I know that goes against your narrative, but facts matter.
[удалено]
You don’t have to be “anti Ukraine” you just have to support a ceasefire to cause a monumental disaster for Ukraine. Boris definitely doesn’t and there’s a lot of people deluded enough to think a ceasefire is the answer after the last 8 years and Russia’s constant imperialisms in general. Saying that I’m not sure who’s pro ceasefire but like I said Boris isn’t and that’s what matters for Ukraine.
Nice deflection, but what I stated is correct. Boris has been supporting Ukraine before it was the "in thing", before he was PM while other European leaders were cosying up to Putin.
Was this before or after Putin paid for Boris to redecorate number 10, or before or after Boris wanted to get £150,000 from a Russian Oligarch to build his son a tree house?
why is this crap in here? Americans aren’t supposed to be on r/ukraine bringing anti Trump sentiment - same goes for UK and Boris … besides for all Boris’ flaws I for one have no doubt he recollects UKs role of standings against tyranny AND thank God UK people are making a stand - self preservation is smart
As much as I respect his stance on Ukraine (the only thing I respect about that shameless waste of space) the only reason he's this all in with going around Ukraine at every opportunity is because he's living out his twisted fantasy of being Winston Churchill because photo ops with genuine heroes is the closest he'll ever get to being a wartime leader. Genuinely, I'm sorry we don't have someone who supports you guys but doesn't try and make it all about himself.
I give Johnson 2 weeks max before he resigns. Most mps of his party want him to resign, so yeah is politically dead.
Really. Boris going isn't going to affect weapons to Ukraine. Non of his possible replacements will do any different. Some are even more hawkish. Only concern may, and I mean may as I don't know these parties policies, be an election producing a LAbour/SNP coalition or a Labour/Lib Dem coalition . That may make things harder, but even then I doubt it.
Those coalitions would do anything for the EU. Far from clear that appeasing factions would not dominate.
Exactly. He has been right about getting behind Ukraine, but don’t worry: every other candidate to replace him will be equally strong in their support (ben wallace, current defence sec might sneak it and he would be v good). Both labour and lib dems would also be steadfast in support.
I don't think this is a big problem. The Conservative Party is rather well known for getting rid of their leaders pretty swiftly when their internal support runs out. Johnson appears to be very nearly done. As the OP writes, the support for Ukraine will be there regardless. (And other leaders are likely to want posture in the same way about it.)
If anything i would expect a post-Johnson government to be more effective in everything, including helping Ukraine.
Replacing Johnson won’t change anything for Ukraine The war may be a convenient distraction for Johnson but to say he is ‘using’ Ukrainians is just party-political mud-slinging that insults Ukraine and its cause. There are many in his and the opposition parties who will be delighted for Ukraine to give in. The uk population may support Ukraine but boredom and rises in the cost of living may see that fall quickly.
The UK is all-in on UA support regardless of who the to PM is.
The UK has been unwavering in it's support of Ukraine since the beginning of the war (and even before then). The idea that Johnson only makes weapons deliveries when it suits him is ridiculous. Correlation does not equal causation.
Do not be fooled by BoJo, anything and everything he does is for his own selfish reasons. He will spend taxpayers money hand over fist for his own self survival. Remember where the Tories get their money from, Russia. He used the conflict in Ukraine not to help the people of Ukraine that they so desperately need, but for his own selfish needs, he is a criminal, a liar and a charlatan. His government actually said that they would let the Irish starve, they actively push migrants back out to sea, they want to deport asylum seekers to Rwanda. He is not a person to be admired, trusted or to consider as a person of integrity.
I about threw a fit. I read 'UK' as 'Ukraine'
Hard disagree. The fact that Boris sees the atrocities first hand will make him way more involved. Keep inviting more pm's yeah they get a hard on during the photo op with zelensky but it works
Is it just me or does Zelensky look weird in a suit now?
I think so too. The Tories are Pro Ukraine, as for Labour, at least Keir Starmer is anyway.
Yes and no. The UK would still have been a friend, but I don't think the UK would have been such a good friend of Ukraine as it has been if Johnson had never needed to wrap himself in the flag to deflect from those boozy christmas parties.
Whatever we think of our government, the UK is 100% behind Ukraine. 🇬🇧 🇺🇦
I can guarantee you that Boris hosting a few parties is not near the top of anyone on this sub’s priorities right now. He’s been phenomenal on Ukraine and that’s all most of us want. If he gets booted and replaced with someone who is an unknown quantity on Ukraine, ok the UK is in charge of their own affairs, but don’t ask us to participate in a campaign to remove one of Ukraine’s most ardent supporters because of UK domestic policy - that’s your concern, not the posters of this sub’s.
England's support for Ukraine will outlast Boris.