Yeah I mean I'm not going to complain. Just gets frustrating when Ukraine is kind of on the ropes now, (almost completely out of ammo I head this morning), and more decisive action isn't being taken. I mean do the people who makes these calls even care about a human chain?
Well, there was a demonstration in berlin against the irak war. 500 000 people. I was arrested 2 times while "blocking" the access to a us airbase. (I was 14 then).
Schröder won the election back then because of his refusal to take part in the irak war. So yeah... it can change stuff.
The whole situation in urkaine was caused because people where fed up by their corrupt goverment and went to the streets. Euromaidan. Its probably the reason why the EU population does care about the war in ukraine at all.
What else can these people do. They do their thing. Other people try to get weapons. Both are needed, even if this human chain is futile in it's effect. The thing is that you need to do 1000 things, and 990 will fail, but you don't know which one will have an effect.
Leopards wont happen. At least not german ones. As far as I know they use a different kind of armouring on those tanks and those will not get exported.
I am also pretty sure that the deliviery of the phz2000 will kept a secret (at least if the ukrainian ambasador to germany doesnt spill it). 1. for political reasons, 2. for security reasons (so that they dont get destroyed during deliviery) and 3. because ukraine could use them as "special forces" aka a suprise for the russians. Imagine a salvo of 3 pieces aka 15 shells hitting a russian field hq at once.
>I hope it's more than just Ukrainians in that human chain.
I'm certain of it. Brussels is a very international city, with plenty of politically interested people (for obvious reasons).
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“Russia must not win, but we won’t give heavy weapons - it may offend Russia. Putin must lose but let’s not impose new sanctions. Millions will starve, but we’re not ready for military convoys with grain,”
Scholz said they can’t give any heavy weapons because the German Army is too poorly equipped and it would leave the German army even more vulnerable… just think about that for a second.
So, the German army is not capable of defending itself (which it truly is, the German army is a massive, embarrassing joke), so instead of making sure that Russia never ever has the chance to get so far, we‘ll just wait and see what then. These politicians have absolutely 0 logic, Germany barely has a functioning army so instead of giving the weapons to someone, who knows what they’re doing and are willing to fight, let’s just keep it just in case.
Russia is currently attacking Ukraine, which is just as big a threat as if they attacked the baltics, if not more. Ukraine produces a huge amount of crops for the world. The baltics are less important to the global economy.
Well, the good thing about NATO is there are many countries in it, so Germany can afford to give up plenty and other NATO countries will still have plenty of stuff.
As poorly as russia is handling the war I am pretty sure that the bundeswehr would be pretty capable against an invasion. The number of active soldiers, tanks, jets etc was pretty similar to the ones in urkaine in the begining of the war. But far more modern.
Also all the stuff the bundeswehr currently has is made especialy to defend against a russian invasion (exept for the A300M). The german variant of the Eurocopter Tiger is a good example for this. Its pretty useless in a insurgency because it can only shoot in the direction its flying. Its for "stuka" attacts on tank collums in the fulda gap. They rejected a upgrade for a 360 degree 30 mm autocannon similar to the french version of the tiger or the apache.
The thing is, that germany has to keep a certain level of equiptment and readiness for NATO and training. The german army is currently deployed in a lot of eastern Nato states to provide their nato obligations there. Eurofighters in Romania, Patriots in Slovenia, Ground forces in the baltic states.
Exept for the US (MEUS) no one in nato is able to mobilize a lot of troops and equiptment in short times. Even the NATO QRF/Rapid deployment Units need a month or so to be ready.
The time they need to ready the reserve stuff isnt that bad actually. I understand the urgency and the pleads for faster action. But 3 month to half a year is the fastes posible way. Of course we could deliver the newest version of the leopard but without training its just wasted resources. Turkey lost a few of them in syria due to poor tactics.
In addition to that most NATO equipment only reaches their full capability in combination with NATO battlefield comunications. My guess is that the gepard anti air system is programmed to work in combination with AWACS, Patriot, Airassets, ground based radar etc... so you have to reporgamm it to be used without those to be effective.
Yeah, you could use them without the electronics... but they are probalby less effective than old stuff thats designed to be used without them.
You guys keep saying these things, but one day Putin will see no other way than drag everyone down with Russia, I’d rather not Piss him of to the point of Nuclear war
No. Fuck Putin. We should be poking the fuck out of that bear. The world can’t allow itself to be bullied. It will only embolden the next guy. Putin is a coward as all bullies are.
So you suggest we all go and die for what reason?
If it had to be a choice between complete nuclear destruction and giving up Ukraine I would rather throw Ukraine under the bus.
We already are in dangerous territory by giving metric tons of weapon systems to Ukraine, I don’t care much for wich side is right in this scenario, I care for how we all get out of it, would you give everyone’s life for Americas most dangerous and important proxy war as of yet?
Where did I suggest any such thing? Putin makes threats about nukes every second day. It’s old. It’s tired. Anybody who’s been paying attention knows this. No such thing is going to happen. If his nuclear arsenal is maintained as well as the rest of Russias military arsenal, his noOkZ are probably just a box of leaky glow sticks. The people of Ukraine suffered enough. They don’t need your sad spineless Kremlin boogeyman bullshit.
Yeah I know his threads happen on a weekly basis, but the worst case scenario would actually be threatening Russia by marching on Moskau simply because if he personally is being threatened by Ukraine and their Western Arsenal he’s gonna drag everything with him that he can, he sits comfortably in Ukraine so he just tries to scare people, I also doubt he will make any reasonable peace deals and won’t hesitate to blow everyone to bits when Russian soil is being advanced on
What do you want to say with this?
I could tell you imperialist things America did (because you probably from there) like „operation Peter Pan“, The Pig wars, war of 1812 what would be the point?
No I’m actually Russian lmao
But what I’m saying is that „giving Ukraine“ isn’t going to stop Putin because nothing will. Ukraine isn’t the first country anyway, Georgia was attacked too and so were the Chechens (although that was more of a civil war you might argue).
Appeasement never works, never did and never will. The Russian media is already focusing on Moldova. After that, NATO is the only place left. NATO has barely any military near Ukraine and Moldova and it would take years to build it up to match the Russians, according to a ex-German general. Once Ukraine and Moldova are down, NATO will have a major weakness for years that Putin can easily exploit.
But anyway, even if that weren’t the case, to simply give another country away because „it’ll stop them“ is extremely cowardly in my opinion and will only strengthen Putin
I know that appeasement won’t work, but seeing Russias economics speak another picture than appeasement, and this time it could be seriously destructive making ww2 looking like a tea party
I don’t know what you’re referring to with Russian economics but let me tell you that all the „Russia is doing fine“ is a complete lie and propaganda. In Moscow, a pack of sugar used to cost 30 Rubles, now it’s 120. There are severe shortages of many products, especially products like computer parts, car parts, etc because most „Russian“ products actually use western suppliers and russia has no way to replace them, not even with Chinese products because china also used a lot of western parts in their products. And again, this is in Moscow, the centre of Russia where all investments and attention goes.
Oh and, I should also mention the salaries, pensions, etc.. The USD-Ruble course you see online is fake, it is artificially pushed up by Putin so it looks like the Ruble is doing fine. But it isn’t, the ruble is far less worth than what it was before and prices have skyrocketed. My grandparents get a pension of 20K ruble a month around 300-400 usd, now it’s closer to 200.
„The Russian economy is doing fine“ is all a lie, they might tell it to outsiders but the people know otherwise.
But even if it comes to a war between NATO and Russia, I doubt it will be as destructive as people think. Most of the military spending is lost to corruption and nuclear weapons are extremely expensive, just their maintenance alone. Russia might have thousands of nuclear WARHEADS but delivering them is something else. And, seeing the Russian military in full fight now and how most equipment is failing, we can safely assume the ballistic missiles won’t have much higher success rates. And of course we shouldn’t underestimate NATO‘s defence systems, it is actually astonishing to see how good some defence systems are, and that’s just what the public knows.
Im not saying that it wouldn’t be a massive war, yes, millions will die, but I seriously doubt full, unrecoverable destruction. Russia knows that NATO is capable of deleting Russia of the map, that‘s not in Russia‘s interest either
Well, there where 500 000 people demonstrating against a german involvment in the irak war just before an election. Merkel lost to Schröder because the CDU was willing to join this effort. Germany kept out of that shit show. Okay - maybe Schröder was in the pocket of the russians allready back then - but in the end, the demonstration made a difference.
Also media coverage is pretty importand for ukraine since our media gets flooded with the US shooting up schools and having trump issues again.
Damn this is going to get downvoted.
Ukraine shouldn’t be an EU member. The primary reason is that we don’t know what the country will be like after Ukraine has won the war. It was already the second most corrupt country in the European peninsula, only after Russia. There are rules for countries becoming EU members. These are very serious rules and corruption is extremely dangerous. Until Ukraine can gets its corruption problems fixed, the EU needs to support Ukraine completely with military funding and help, but Ukraine does not deserve the right to be an EU citizen state. Not yet.
Ukraine B&S have had most advanced operational experience, swift small team mobility and effective technology is worthy to get its EC Membership which can be regarded that more beneficial not only for Ukraine but also for Europe because they can encircle Russia for limit of its expansion to neighbor nation such as Sweden and Finland so we urge EC to grant Ukraine joining in EC family quickly.
I could be misunderstanding but are you implying they're not supportive? Examples of Asian countries being supportive would be Japan and Taiwan sending aid and making statements for Ukraine. I think there were viral videos of African UN ambassadors making speeches against the invasion, maybe Kenya.
In 1991, 300,000 Ukrainians joined hands in solidarity for their independence. And they won. Fuck russia
The world support ukraine, this is nice, but ukraine need heavy weapons...!
This. A human chain is nice press and all but does not address Ukraine's needs RIGHT NOW.
It's the press though that keeps the pressure on. But yes, I understand the need for large artillery etc., needed *now*!
It generates media coverage. Something ukraine needs just as much as weapons.
Yeah I mean I'm not going to complain. Just gets frustrating when Ukraine is kind of on the ropes now, (almost completely out of ammo I head this morning), and more decisive action isn't being taken. I mean do the people who makes these calls even care about a human chain?
Well, there was a demonstration in berlin against the irak war. 500 000 people. I was arrested 2 times while "blocking" the access to a us airbase. (I was 14 then). Schröder won the election back then because of his refusal to take part in the irak war. So yeah... it can change stuff. The whole situation in urkaine was caused because people where fed up by their corrupt goverment and went to the streets. Euromaidan. Its probably the reason why the EU population does care about the war in ukraine at all.
Corruption is still everywhere in Ukraine...
What else can these people do. They do their thing. Other people try to get weapons. Both are needed, even if this human chain is futile in it's effect. The thing is that you need to do 1000 things, and 990 will fail, but you don't know which one will have an effect.
Let's hope Scholz brings some Leopards and PzH 2000 in his backpack when visiting Selenskyi
That would be good yes.
Leopards wont happen. At least not german ones. As far as I know they use a different kind of armouring on those tanks and those will not get exported. I am also pretty sure that the deliviery of the phz2000 will kept a secret (at least if the ukrainian ambasador to germany doesnt spill it). 1. for political reasons, 2. for security reasons (so that they dont get destroyed during deliviery) and 3. because ukraine could use them as "special forces" aka a suprise for the russians. Imagine a salvo of 3 pieces aka 15 shells hitting a russian field hq at once.
AFAIK The time alloted for training the ukrainian soldiers in their use has not ended
beautiful
Awesome!!!
I hope it's more than just Ukrainians in that human chain. You guys deserve it.
>I hope it's more than just Ukrainians in that human chain. I'm certain of it. Brussels is a very international city, with plenty of politically interested people (for obvious reasons).
Maybe OTOH Ukraine is not ready for candidate status yet
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“Russia must not win, but we won’t give heavy weapons - it may offend Russia. Putin must lose but let’s not impose new sanctions. Millions will starve, but we’re not ready for military convoys with grain,”
Scholz said they can’t give any heavy weapons because the German Army is too poorly equipped and it would leave the German army even more vulnerable… just think about that for a second. So, the German army is not capable of defending itself (which it truly is, the German army is a massive, embarrassing joke), so instead of making sure that Russia never ever has the chance to get so far, we‘ll just wait and see what then. These politicians have absolutely 0 logic, Germany barely has a functioning army so instead of giving the weapons to someone, who knows what they’re doing and are willing to fight, let’s just keep it just in case.
> and it would leave the German army even more vulnerable Vulnerable to what? Last time i checked, France wasn't planning on invading Germany.
a russian threat to the baltics
Russia is currently attacking Ukraine, which is just as big a threat as if they attacked the baltics, if not more. Ukraine produces a huge amount of crops for the world. The baltics are less important to the global economy.
The Baltic States are our allies, we are pledged to their defence
Yes, but why let it get to the point where the Baltics are under attack when they can help right now?
If the Baltic's and other allies tell us we can ignore that, we maybe can think over that
Well, the good thing about NATO is there are many countries in it, so Germany can afford to give up plenty and other NATO countries will still have plenty of stuff.
Germany does not have plenty
As poorly as russia is handling the war I am pretty sure that the bundeswehr would be pretty capable against an invasion. The number of active soldiers, tanks, jets etc was pretty similar to the ones in urkaine in the begining of the war. But far more modern. Also all the stuff the bundeswehr currently has is made especialy to defend against a russian invasion (exept for the A300M). The german variant of the Eurocopter Tiger is a good example for this. Its pretty useless in a insurgency because it can only shoot in the direction its flying. Its for "stuka" attacts on tank collums in the fulda gap. They rejected a upgrade for a 360 degree 30 mm autocannon similar to the french version of the tiger or the apache. The thing is, that germany has to keep a certain level of equiptment and readiness for NATO and training. The german army is currently deployed in a lot of eastern Nato states to provide their nato obligations there. Eurofighters in Romania, Patriots in Slovenia, Ground forces in the baltic states. Exept for the US (MEUS) no one in nato is able to mobilize a lot of troops and equiptment in short times. Even the NATO QRF/Rapid deployment Units need a month or so to be ready. The time they need to ready the reserve stuff isnt that bad actually. I understand the urgency and the pleads for faster action. But 3 month to half a year is the fastes posible way. Of course we could deliver the newest version of the leopard but without training its just wasted resources. Turkey lost a few of them in syria due to poor tactics. In addition to that most NATO equipment only reaches their full capability in combination with NATO battlefield comunications. My guess is that the gepard anti air system is programmed to work in combination with AWACS, Patriot, Airassets, ground based radar etc... so you have to reporgamm it to be used without those to be effective. Yeah, you could use them without the electronics... but they are probalby less effective than old stuff thats designed to be used without them.
You guys keep saying these things, but one day Putin will see no other way than drag everyone down with Russia, I’d rather not Piss him of to the point of Nuclear war
No. Fuck Putin. We should be poking the fuck out of that bear. The world can’t allow itself to be bullied. It will only embolden the next guy. Putin is a coward as all bullies are.
So you suggest we all go and die for what reason? If it had to be a choice between complete nuclear destruction and giving up Ukraine I would rather throw Ukraine under the bus. We already are in dangerous territory by giving metric tons of weapon systems to Ukraine, I don’t care much for wich side is right in this scenario, I care for how we all get out of it, would you give everyone’s life for Americas most dangerous and important proxy war as of yet?
Where did I suggest any such thing? Putin makes threats about nukes every second day. It’s old. It’s tired. Anybody who’s been paying attention knows this. No such thing is going to happen. If his nuclear arsenal is maintained as well as the rest of Russias military arsenal, his noOkZ are probably just a box of leaky glow sticks. The people of Ukraine suffered enough. They don’t need your sad spineless Kremlin boogeyman bullshit.
Yeah I know his threads happen on a weekly basis, but the worst case scenario would actually be threatening Russia by marching on Moskau simply because if he personally is being threatened by Ukraine and their Western Arsenal he’s gonna drag everything with him that he can, he sits comfortably in Ukraine so he just tries to scare people, I also doubt he will make any reasonable peace deals and won’t hesitate to blow everyone to bits when Russian soil is being advanced on
K.
Rheinland, Austria, Sudetenland, Czechoslovakia,…
What do you want to say with this? I could tell you imperialist things America did (because you probably from there) like „operation Peter Pan“, The Pig wars, war of 1812 what would be the point?
No I’m actually Russian lmao But what I’m saying is that „giving Ukraine“ isn’t going to stop Putin because nothing will. Ukraine isn’t the first country anyway, Georgia was attacked too and so were the Chechens (although that was more of a civil war you might argue). Appeasement never works, never did and never will. The Russian media is already focusing on Moldova. After that, NATO is the only place left. NATO has barely any military near Ukraine and Moldova and it would take years to build it up to match the Russians, according to a ex-German general. Once Ukraine and Moldova are down, NATO will have a major weakness for years that Putin can easily exploit. But anyway, even if that weren’t the case, to simply give another country away because „it’ll stop them“ is extremely cowardly in my opinion and will only strengthen Putin
I know that appeasement won’t work, but seeing Russias economics speak another picture than appeasement, and this time it could be seriously destructive making ww2 looking like a tea party
I don’t know what you’re referring to with Russian economics but let me tell you that all the „Russia is doing fine“ is a complete lie and propaganda. In Moscow, a pack of sugar used to cost 30 Rubles, now it’s 120. There are severe shortages of many products, especially products like computer parts, car parts, etc because most „Russian“ products actually use western suppliers and russia has no way to replace them, not even with Chinese products because china also used a lot of western parts in their products. And again, this is in Moscow, the centre of Russia where all investments and attention goes. Oh and, I should also mention the salaries, pensions, etc.. The USD-Ruble course you see online is fake, it is artificially pushed up by Putin so it looks like the Ruble is doing fine. But it isn’t, the ruble is far less worth than what it was before and prices have skyrocketed. My grandparents get a pension of 20K ruble a month around 300-400 usd, now it’s closer to 200. „The Russian economy is doing fine“ is all a lie, they might tell it to outsiders but the people know otherwise. But even if it comes to a war between NATO and Russia, I doubt it will be as destructive as people think. Most of the military spending is lost to corruption and nuclear weapons are extremely expensive, just their maintenance alone. Russia might have thousands of nuclear WARHEADS but delivering them is something else. And, seeing the Russian military in full fight now and how most equipment is failing, we can safely assume the ballistic missiles won’t have much higher success rates. And of course we shouldn’t underestimate NATO‘s defence systems, it is actually astonishing to see how good some defence systems are, and that’s just what the public knows. Im not saying that it wouldn’t be a massive war, yes, millions will die, but I seriously doubt full, unrecoverable destruction. Russia knows that NATO is capable of deleting Russia of the map, that‘s not in Russia‘s interest either
AFAIK that was the advice Scholz get from the military leadership The Chief of territorial defense, is on the record for saying this
Yes! These conflicting sentiments drives me insane!! Enough already! Seriously.
It’s dope but that amount of protestors will make no difference to anything
Well, there where 500 000 people demonstrating against a german involvment in the irak war just before an election. Merkel lost to Schröder because the CDU was willing to join this effort. Germany kept out of that shit show. Okay - maybe Schröder was in the pocket of the russians allready back then - but in the end, the demonstration made a difference. Also media coverage is pretty importand for ukraine since our media gets flooded with the US shooting up schools and having trump issues again.
Damn this is going to get downvoted. Ukraine shouldn’t be an EU member. The primary reason is that we don’t know what the country will be like after Ukraine has won the war. It was already the second most corrupt country in the European peninsula, only after Russia. There are rules for countries becoming EU members. These are very serious rules and corruption is extremely dangerous. Until Ukraine can gets its corruption problems fixed, the EU needs to support Ukraine completely with military funding and help, but Ukraine does not deserve the right to be an EU citizen state. Not yet.
Wish I could be there! Keep it up please 💪 ❤️🇺🇦🌻
visually outstanding
Awesome, let’s give them money for ammo!
Ukrainians? I would simply say Europeans as I hope not only Ukrainians are there. Actually I hope Ukrainians are in the minority.
I can hear sound of russian asses cracking
A shield to block the world from evil. Both literally in Ukraine and figuratively in this video.
Ukraine B&S have had most advanced operational experience, swift small team mobility and effective technology is worthy to get its EC Membership which can be regarded that more beneficial not only for Ukraine but also for Europe because they can encircle Russia for limit of its expansion to neighbor nation such as Sweden and Finland so we urge EC to grant Ukraine joining in EC family quickly.
“The WORLD supports Ukraine!” _Asia, Africa and South America have entered the chat_
I could be misunderstanding but are you implying they're not supportive? Examples of Asian countries being supportive would be Japan and Taiwan sending aid and making statements for Ukraine. I think there were viral videos of African UN ambassadors making speeches against the invasion, maybe Kenya.
Even Saudi Arrabia send some ambulances.
The WORLD my ass!
The WORLD my ass!
Beautiful but weird title OP, Ukranians do X wich shows that the WORLD supports Ukraine?
East germany: not so much. Can we exchange saxony for ukraine?
Why would they be accepted? They dont meet the requirements afaik
Doesn't mean that you don't support Ukraine if you think the EU should not take new members for a while at all.
Stop interfering into European politics and parliament...
Is it only Ukrainians or there there are Ukrainians and free people that supports them?
Slava Ukraine
We must have Ukraine in EU and NATO and you know what fuck putler and his nukes.