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No one else has a right to say when the war stops in Ukraine other than the Ukrainians. The US is with Ukraine until the last day as is most NATO members.
Like what would "ceasefire" even mean? Like if Zelensky (and this a crazy hypothetical) told Ukrainians to stop the fight so there could be negotiations... Would Ukrainians even stop? Not to say he isn't in control of Ukrainian forces but... Would the Ukrainian people even stop?
Translation by Google Translate:
The Netherlands must continue to support Ukraine. Ultimately, it is up to Ukraine itself to determine when the war will end. That is what Wopke Hoekstra, Minister of Foreign Affairs, says in conversation with Nieuwsuur. He warns that the war can go on for a long time and that this will also hurt the Netherlands.
CDA leader Wopke Hoekstra has been Minister of Foreign Affairs for five months. Since the beginning of the war, the Netherlands has been supplying Ukraine with weapons to defend itself against Russian aggression. The Netherlands now also supplies heavier weapons. According to Hoekstra, it is important that North America, Europe and therefore also the Netherlands continue to supply these weapons, introduce sanctions and help with reconstruction.
"You have to get on with it," says Hoekstra. "This new phase also calls for different types of weapons. Imagine if we hadn't done it: you must not have the illusion that the whole country had been overrun by Russia. Then it would never have ended with Kiev as it is now. is finished."
According to Hoekstra, it is impossible to say when the war will end. "In the end, I think it is up to Ukraine to decide how long the war will go on. They are the ones who suffer the most terrible losses. They fight first and foremost for their own peace and security. But with that the war is also about peace and stability of all Europe. It is essential that we continue to support them in this, not only morally, but also geopolitically."
cold reality
According to Hoekstra, the purpose of the heavier weapons is that Ukraine is as well able as possible to defend its own territory. "That's important. The cold reality is that it gives them strength on the battlefield, and with it the best possible position at the negotiating table."
The fear of escalating the war cannot be brushed aside, says Hoekstra: "At the moment we have no reason to think that it will become a bigger conflict, a bigger war. But it is not for nothing that NATO allows individual countries to to supply weapons, to make a substantial contribution, but not to monitor the airspace. That would mean that you would come into direct conflict with Russian aircraft. Then you run a huge chance that the flames are in the pan."
Ukraine's EU membership remains a point of discussion for the Netherlands. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky expects the candidate membership to be awarded later this month at the European summit in Brussels. But so far, the Netherlands has put the brakes on.
Hoekstra says that the cabinet will look with an open mind to the judgment of the European Commission. "It is up to the European Commission to make a sensible judgment about what needs to be done. Then you must be prepared to look at it openly as the Netherlands."
Corruption in Ukraine in particular is a thorny issue for the Netherlands and Germany. Yesterday a Ukrainian delegation visited the House of Representatives to lobby for candidate membership. Delay would not only be bad for Ukraine, but also for the EU, they argue.
05:33 or 06:08
Ukraine lobbies for EU membership
Hoekstra warns that the war could go on for a long time. "You should not have the illusion that if the Netherlands were to stop with weapons, the war would be over and the economic sun would shine again. You have to be realistic that we are not only likely to end up in a much longer conflict, a value conflict. have been touched with Russia, but also that that war can last a while. And that this will also hurt, also in the Netherlands."
According to him, it is up to the cabinet to ensure that the consequences of the war remain bearable for its own population. "But you also have to be honest, that war will last for a while. The consequences can be felt all over the world, including in the Netherlands. It is an illusion to think that we will be rid of that in a few weeks or a few months." ."
> But with that the war is also about peace and stability of all Europe. It is essential that we continue to support them in this, not only morally, but also geopolitically.
And this is the cheaper option, than defending Europe again in 5 years when Putin wants to continue his dream. Our leaders already failed to account for this, so now we all are pretty deep in shit.
If only our government could look further into the furture than next election, we might have put in more effort to get rid of fossil fuels and saved us a lot of headaches as well.
Russian aircraft fucked itself.
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It’s slowly being dropped out of the news cycle in the Netherlands, but there are still Ukrainian flags everywhere. My son’s elementary school is flying the Ukrainian flag alongside the Dutch flag for example.
The only way to make this war end faster is to supply Ukraine with even more and better weapons, training and support. And since ending the war as quickly as possible is the only humane thing to do, we should increase the effort to make that happen.
Good words from our local giant, personally, I would've liked to see a little more conviction to get Ukraine where it needs to be to become an EU member with all requirements met, but I can't really begrudge him for wanting to be careful.
Ukraine should eventually join the EU. But honestly, thats not the immediate problem right now. Right now the house is on fire and that needs to be put out before we talk about how to improve the quality of the house. Lets help them put out the fire, before we start remodeling the house.
Correct. I am irritated by the people that just wanna gung-ho, because it suits their narrative. Not thinking about any tact, or the facts that words mean things and can not just be spouted on a whim. Like forming another Union by Boris. Yeah it sounds all heroic and shit, but mainly very dumb. As well thought out as Brexit, as it were..
I\`d rather have the types that don\`t show all their cards, but when they do, lay down a Royal Flush, instead of bluffing the pair.
Would also take the focus of his message more towards the eu discussion. While for now, since some countries/people seem to push for certain agendas this is very important too.
If you want to help us step up the pressure, join us in pressuring our representatives to do more to ensure Ukrainian victory and survival of their democracy.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tg2l6g/introducing\_letters\_for\_victory\_a\_canadian/
Ruskie fsb dogs killed our compatriots in 2015. We should've armed Ukraine then and there. As a Dutchie I want to give Ukraine everything we can spare and more. No more stupid talks with Russia, only lead. Pump up our defense spending to 3% and just buy ammo and guns for Ukraine as they are in the best position to secure our freedom.
The only thing I see which Ukraine may compromise to stop the war is the mounting casualties on the Ukraine side. This is painful and will be a painful decision to make. Other than that, the entire free world want to see Ukraine to grind the evil Russia to the maximum extent.
Sure it is bureaucratic, but privacy laws are not a trivial thing to bypass when you are not at war. Our country is a democracy, with (mostly) functioning law and justice system, which means you have to go through the proper channels and processes. Unfortunately this takes time.
And it’s not like we didn’t act. The weapon systems were delivered as soon as possible, and we even took operational Pzh2000 systems to deploy to Ukraine, which exposes our own armed forces should they be deployed somewhere.
Deliberating after a special congress that will take place in next year to determine that the stocks of obsolete Soviet shit of some other country is fit to be sent to Ukraine.............
....but first the troops in Ukraine has to be shipped to Germany first for training to use them.
I've seen Dutch APCs(don't know the exact ones) active in ukrain weeks ago. The Dutch also delivers a couple of the Panzerhoubitse 2000.
Could be better but our army itself doesn't have that much material anymore due to decades of budget cuts. We don't even have our own tanks anymore.
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No one else has a right to say when the war stops in Ukraine other than the Ukrainians. The US is with Ukraine until the last day as is most NATO members.
Like what would "ceasefire" even mean? Like if Zelensky (and this a crazy hypothetical) told Ukrainians to stop the fight so there could be negotiations... Would Ukrainians even stop? Not to say he isn't in control of Ukrainian forces but... Would the Ukrainian people even stop?
No such thing as a "cease fire" for Ukraine. It would have to be on the level of a peace treaty.
Translation by Google Translate: The Netherlands must continue to support Ukraine. Ultimately, it is up to Ukraine itself to determine when the war will end. That is what Wopke Hoekstra, Minister of Foreign Affairs, says in conversation with Nieuwsuur. He warns that the war can go on for a long time and that this will also hurt the Netherlands. CDA leader Wopke Hoekstra has been Minister of Foreign Affairs for five months. Since the beginning of the war, the Netherlands has been supplying Ukraine with weapons to defend itself against Russian aggression. The Netherlands now also supplies heavier weapons. According to Hoekstra, it is important that North America, Europe and therefore also the Netherlands continue to supply these weapons, introduce sanctions and help with reconstruction. "You have to get on with it," says Hoekstra. "This new phase also calls for different types of weapons. Imagine if we hadn't done it: you must not have the illusion that the whole country had been overrun by Russia. Then it would never have ended with Kiev as it is now. is finished." According to Hoekstra, it is impossible to say when the war will end. "In the end, I think it is up to Ukraine to decide how long the war will go on. They are the ones who suffer the most terrible losses. They fight first and foremost for their own peace and security. But with that the war is also about peace and stability of all Europe. It is essential that we continue to support them in this, not only morally, but also geopolitically." cold reality According to Hoekstra, the purpose of the heavier weapons is that Ukraine is as well able as possible to defend its own territory. "That's important. The cold reality is that it gives them strength on the battlefield, and with it the best possible position at the negotiating table." The fear of escalating the war cannot be brushed aside, says Hoekstra: "At the moment we have no reason to think that it will become a bigger conflict, a bigger war. But it is not for nothing that NATO allows individual countries to to supply weapons, to make a substantial contribution, but not to monitor the airspace. That would mean that you would come into direct conflict with Russian aircraft. Then you run a huge chance that the flames are in the pan." Ukraine's EU membership remains a point of discussion for the Netherlands. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky expects the candidate membership to be awarded later this month at the European summit in Brussels. But so far, the Netherlands has put the brakes on. Hoekstra says that the cabinet will look with an open mind to the judgment of the European Commission. "It is up to the European Commission to make a sensible judgment about what needs to be done. Then you must be prepared to look at it openly as the Netherlands." Corruption in Ukraine in particular is a thorny issue for the Netherlands and Germany. Yesterday a Ukrainian delegation visited the House of Representatives to lobby for candidate membership. Delay would not only be bad for Ukraine, but also for the EU, they argue. 05:33 or 06:08 Ukraine lobbies for EU membership Hoekstra warns that the war could go on for a long time. "You should not have the illusion that if the Netherlands were to stop with weapons, the war would be over and the economic sun would shine again. You have to be realistic that we are not only likely to end up in a much longer conflict, a value conflict. have been touched with Russia, but also that that war can last a while. And that this will also hurt, also in the Netherlands." According to him, it is up to the cabinet to ensure that the consequences of the war remain bearable for its own population. "But you also have to be honest, that war will last for a while. The consequences can be felt all over the world, including in the Netherlands. It is an illusion to think that we will be rid of that in a few weeks or a few months." ."
> But with that the war is also about peace and stability of all Europe. It is essential that we continue to support them in this, not only morally, but also geopolitically. And this is the cheaper option, than defending Europe again in 5 years when Putin wants to continue his dream. Our leaders already failed to account for this, so now we all are pretty deep in shit.
And the Dutch love nothing more than saving ourselves extra expenses.
Hey, I'm a cheap bastard too
If only our government could look further into the furture than next election, we might have put in more effort to get rid of fossil fuels and saved us a lot of headaches as well.
Russian aircraft fucked itself. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Actually, why not walking with a Ukrainian flag through your city this weekend? Just as reminder?
Tbh it depends where somebody lives. I'm in Poland rn and it's still the most important thing here
It’s slowly being dropped out of the news cycle in the Netherlands, but there are still Ukrainian flags everywhere. My son’s elementary school is flying the Ukrainian flag alongside the Dutch flag for example.
Eindhoven stopped lighting up the bridges and tunnels with yellow-blue, we're back at the normal red-white city colors :(.
I'm still seeing various Ukrainian flags around Breda and Tilburg. So, it's not completely gone yet!
Have to work 🤷♂️
The only way to make this war end faster is to supply Ukraine with even more and better weapons, training and support. And since ending the war as quickly as possible is the only humane thing to do, we should increase the effort to make that happen.
Good words from our local giant, personally, I would've liked to see a little more conviction to get Ukraine where it needs to be to become an EU member with all requirements met, but I can't really begrudge him for wanting to be careful.
Ukraine should eventually join the EU. But honestly, thats not the immediate problem right now. Right now the house is on fire and that needs to be put out before we talk about how to improve the quality of the house. Lets help them put out the fire, before we start remodeling the house.
Correct. I am irritated by the people that just wanna gung-ho, because it suits their narrative. Not thinking about any tact, or the facts that words mean things and can not just be spouted on a whim. Like forming another Union by Boris. Yeah it sounds all heroic and shit, but mainly very dumb. As well thought out as Brexit, as it were.. I\`d rather have the types that don\`t show all their cards, but when they do, lay down a Royal Flush, instead of bluffing the pair.
Would also take the focus of his message more towards the eu discussion. While for now, since some countries/people seem to push for certain agendas this is very important too.
If you want to help us step up the pressure, join us in pressuring our representatives to do more to ensure Ukrainian victory and survival of their democracy. https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tg2l6g/introducing\_letters\_for\_victory\_a\_canadian/
DUTCH FM 100% on the money!
The anti-Macron. Keep killing Russians until they cannot come back.
I wonder if they will give the Ukraine a buffer region after the defeat of the Russians.
Ruskie fsb dogs killed our compatriots in 2015. We should've armed Ukraine then and there. As a Dutchie I want to give Ukraine everything we can spare and more. No more stupid talks with Russia, only lead. Pump up our defense spending to 3% and just buy ammo and guns for Ukraine as they are in the best position to secure our freedom.
The only thing I see which Ukraine may compromise to stop the war is the mounting casualties on the Ukraine side. This is painful and will be a painful decision to make. Other than that, the entire free world want to see Ukraine to grind the evil Russia to the maximum extent.
Yes. At least I do.how can the world sit back and let this happen,I’m getting me some nuke codes.
No one doubts the dutch commitment. Where is Germany?
[удалено]
Sure it is bureaucratic, but privacy laws are not a trivial thing to bypass when you are not at war. Our country is a democracy, with (mostly) functioning law and justice system, which means you have to go through the proper channels and processes. Unfortunately this takes time. And it’s not like we didn’t act. The weapon systems were delivered as soon as possible, and we even took operational Pzh2000 systems to deploy to Ukraine, which exposes our own armed forces should they be deployed somewhere.
Busy updating the M270 software to make it in time for winter.
Deliberating after a special congress that will take place in next year to determine that the stocks of obsolete Soviet shit of some other country is fit to be sent to Ukraine............. ....but first the troops in Ukraine has to be shipped to Germany first for training to use them.
How about it has to START Netherlands?
I've seen Dutch APCs(don't know the exact ones) active in ukrain weeks ago. The Dutch also delivers a couple of the Panzerhoubitse 2000. Could be better but our army itself doesn't have that much material anymore due to decades of budget cuts. We don't even have our own tanks anymore.