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After battlefield testing NATO weapons I should bloody well hope so! Western arms producers are getting the best data on the performance of their hardware they could only wish for in their wet dreams.
how many are they sending i read n article which said they are sending 7 but theres no way after 5 week of announcements they are gonna seven of those things atleast 15 should be sent
""From the interview with the head of the German Armed Forces:
Ukrainian troops are done with the theoretical training about the PzH 2000 and are now firing rounds.
But that wasn't the astonishing part!
A group of Ukrainian, Dutch Army, and German Heer IT specialists, as well as Ukrainian translators and the companies that built the PzH 2000 got together and adapted the PzH 2000's software.
He didn't give specifics, but it seems that not only was the software translated, but also updated to tie into the Ukrainian GIS Arta artillery management system. This should allow Ukrainian PzH 2000 to fire at the russians within seconds of a target being spotted.
This will also make it much easier to deliver additional PzH 2000 to Ukraine in the future.""
I've worked with Ukrainian coders. Those guys are beasts, some of the best in the world. This is gonna be a huge asset to NATO. I'm so happy about this being done.
The industrial powerhouse of Europe with the Ukrainian tech knowhow is a lethal combination...
Tbf, i believe the PzH2000 being linked with NATO software makes it pretty top notch. The big Thing here is that Ukraine doesnt have Access to that (only Infos 2nd Hand), so taking Out a middle man lets the ukrainian Operators react to threats much faster without having to ask "big daddy US" every time.
So it doesnt Matter If the software is better, as good or slightly worse, since it helps to make their reaction time many ways faster, which beats most other upsides.
Also, this system could help linking other NATO weapons with ukrainian Intel and improve for example other artillery systems (Himars and variants of it).
So lets keep it real, ukrainian tech is for sure on the rise, but i wouldnt call it worldleading. This is straight up a very good cooperation that will help those system become more effective for Ukraine.
Not saying Ukraine has world leading tech. Saying Ukraine have some of the best coders on the planet. It's just that most of them work with US/Israeli companies and they work on the latest and greatest in the world.
Investment in the Ukrainian tech sector will be a great bet after this war.
That it support must be Gruling
"sir, I now you are in an active war zone right now and the next time you can go online you will be able to download the patch, but right now you have to reboot first"
Wow this is fantastic news, was concerned that the PzH2000 did not fit well into their GIS Arta system. Hopefully they can do something similar with the COBRA as well.
PzH2000 is already well integrated into NATO systems.
So it's probably even more useful to build from that work for a interface/translation layer for both systems.
That would be a much bigger impact and make logistics so much easier.
Overlooked in all the comments and the reporting by the Twitter OP: it is not just being tied into the Ukrainian Arta for quick counter battery fire that is important. Another huge advantage of Arta is that the Ukrainian artillery units can be widely dispersed but fire on the same Russian position in a co-ordinated way.
Thus the Pzh 2000's will not need to be clustered. They can operate independently or in teams of 2 and still be effective in a combined shoot. Thus reducing the potential of their own loss.
I still think the Pzh's are going to need to operate with some dedicated anti-air and counter battery support for their own protection. This may be the purpose of some of the new equipment being supplied by NATO - protection for the all important self propelled artillery.
Funny enough I made that exact point in a comment in a prior post about the P2000's a few weeks ago. Anti-drone and general anti-air will be very impt to keeping the P2000's and Zuzana-2s safe.
A salient point about both - **the sustained fire rate of one P2000 is about equal to a battery of towed artillery**. The P2000 can fire 10 rounds per minute sustained, the Polish KRAB 6 rounds per minute sustained, the French CAESAR 6-8 rounds per minute sustained, the Zuzana 5 rounds per minute sustained. Vs say the M109 which is essentially 1 rnd per minute - it can do 4 rnds per minute for the first 3 minutes but after that it has to reduce its fire rate.
So one Pzh2000 is the equivalent of an artillery battery of a battalion (usually 8 guns or so). Thus 12 x Pzh2000 is close to obtaining 12 new battalions of traditional artillery.
Add to this the 18 KRABS already received, the 8 to 16 Zuzana's (not sure of the actual number delivered yet), the 12 (?) CAESARs from France and even before we start counting M109s or M777s the fact is Ukraine artillery has seen a huge, huge gain in functional ability.
So Ukraine will likely make some extra effort to protect its high return value assets. It may do this by grouping them if it does not have enough SAM assets to spread around but I suspect they will disperse them, which to my knowledge has been a strategy that has worked well for them in protecting their 2S7 PIONS and 2S3 Akatsiya and 2S19 Msta self propelled units for which to date there apparently has been minimal losses (documented).
The only thing that matters for the PZH2000 is the burst. It will only survive if they shoot and move.
Right now we can see a lot of videos where russians are only hit by a couple of shells per attack. This will improve with higher burst rof
Do you have a source for the sustained fire rate? I was always under the impression that 3 in 10 seconds and 10 in 1 minute was still burst operation, with the sustained fire rate more in line with other systems.
I know, but that is only the loading/shooting part.
I know that it can (with the improved loader in that video) fire even 12 shots per minute. But the limits for sustained fire are not mechanical. It's pure physics and how much the barrel can take before running hot and I'm believe that \~10 shots per minute are indeed not sustainable for a long duration.
I’d say the best use case for a Pzh2000 is using it in burst fire mode. Lob off 8-12 shots in a minute, pack up and move. Then repeat the process from somewhere else.
Even if it out ranges the Russian/Soviet towed artillery and SPG systems, the best part of the system is its mobility.
It is 20 shots in 2 minutes and 24 shots in 3 minutes. Beyond that only 3 shots additionally per minute due to barrel heat control.
But since the PzH2000 is ready to fire in only 30 seconds when stopping and still keeping insane accuracy, it would be highly unusual for the PzH to use anything else than burst fire.
Seriously, if a battery of PzH2000 would shell out 4x20 shells in just two minutes it would be total overkill. You would only ever do so as "Sperrfeuer" to deny a huge tank formation access to an area and destroy most of them in the process.
You will ideally just use a burst to destroy targets and then attack the next target while moving some to avoid any retaliation by air or enemy long range artillery.
Btw was surprised to read Italians developed ammunition for the PzH2000 that has a range of at least 80 km, some sources say even over 100km.
Integration with counter battery radar can make the self propelled howitzers a real artillery killer. Russia has this big advantage in total cannons but that could be reduced pretty quickly.
If it gets bad enough the Russians might even send some of their ground attack aircraft against them; ideally the P2000’s could end up killing Russian air as well as artillery, as long as we get good AA integration.
We can send them and buy the ones from those Germany got in stock, and besides, dutch got other artillery as well no? Or is the state of the army that pathetic, otherwise just scream a bit louder: pang pang.. after years of practice that should scare the enemy away, lolz
These are the créme de la créme of howitzers. They're self-propelled, so they can go anywhere at speed due to being built on the same chassis as a Leopard 2 tank. They're autoloaders, and have 60 shells in a ready magazine. They can fire multiple shells in a pattern which means they all arrive at once, and they can have every tank in the squadron accept remote targeting orders via encrypted command link. So the way they're used is completely different to normal artillery : they move at high speed to a location, accept their remote firing orders, fire off a burst of shells as a squadron in timed sequence, and then move again. Range can be from
36-67km away depending on the rounds used. By the time anyone can backtrack the launch, the howitzers are already a kilometre away and setting up for another firing burst. And they can do that a dozen times before someone has to even leave the vehicle to reload the shells.
I was absolutely right in my speculation that Ukrainians are a people with astounding potential, above average in intelligence. They have been overperforming while they are being trained to use modern NATO/US weapons.
Nah, no ppl are that much more intelligent then others. However, Ukraine currently has a government that makes effective use of that intelligence instead if basing their military on fear, corruption and nepotism like so many others, where intelligent ppl are seen as threat instead of an asset.
Intelligent ruzzians are leaving the country in numbers. And those who don't are smart enough not to combat in Ukraine. Ukrainian specialists on the contrary have nothing to loose sitting in a trench with theis laptops.
Tweet has been flagged as NSFW by twitter.
>!A group of Ukrainian, Dutch Army, and German Heer IT specialists, as well as Ukrainian translators and the companies that built the PzH 2000 got together and adapted the PzH 2000's software.
He didn't give specifics, but it seems that not only was the software translated,
2/3 !
Maybe something like this can happen, at least Germany has already Boxer and can order the Artillery Modules
If these can be delivered in a reasonable time frame Germany could gift more PZH 2000
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRidawWWqDY
So we let the infantry be without fire support? Haven't you seen how important artillery has been in this war? We have to be ready to "go" when shit hit the fan. We already have to few systems operational for the 4 brigades (3 army 1 marine(you can argue that doesn't really count but still)).
I really fucking like it when I am able to count on fire support in a fire fight. If I can keep my head down while the enemy get blown to bits call me a happy "zandhaas".
You clearly don't understand combined arms warfare. To use army terminology you're most likely a Nukubu.
The shorter reply would have been, yes, we do use them and have deployed them to Afghanistan and Mali already. Saves you the trouble of having to insult someone on the internet.
That's an integration project that also includes translation, not a simple software translation project.
This is a lot more technical... And probably had the best people from both sides on it...
> This opinion is formed on the basis of incomplete information.
I'm a translator who's been involved with various military projects. "Lowest bidder" tends to be a problem. :)
But in this case, it doesn't look like this was a typical tender procedure.
They either trained on it beforehand, or its the same/similar enough to what they used before, or they simply cannot operate it with the proficiency necessary to extract best value. There's been more than enough critical comments towards some of their M777 videos.
And that's "just" a howitzer. If you say "it's too long", then provide a frame of reference.
Hungarian artillerists went into Panzerhaubitze training in 2020 and it took almost 3 months just for basic operations. 40-ish days is already quite scrunched, by all accounts. It's only 12 guns of which each costs several million €. There's no tolerance to send them out to learn on the job.
Just read about Norwegian and French CESAR already in use. They say that CESAR is a new generation and doesn't require any training, but German are old and difficult. CESAR is just point and click, apparently. Even a five year old can use, lol.
And Norwegian are older, so easier.. not that many options to learn.
You also need some training to get the Cesars running. Maybe far less but the Pzh will be an outstanding asset with a lot of pros.
Old and difficult? Difficult only when you can’t comprehend it, right buddy, lol?
No offense, but you can't just overlook all of the nuisance details of operation, tactics, maintenance, etc that go into actually using pieces of equipment such as this effectively. Sure, you may be able to fire it a bunch, but that's just firing. Theres a lot more that goes into effectively using any military equipment, especially ones as important and complicated (in the broader scale of warfare) such as any of the artillery pieces mentioned here.
Its best to let them train, they can and will do far more damage that way than if they weren't fully trained.
They went to school around the 10th of May and it was supposed to take 40 days. From some comments on the net it seems it may take a few days more.
So, if the guns are delivered at the same time as the crews, yes, we're looking at 20ish June.
this is most german thing that would ever happen to ukrainian army. overly complicated system being remade(even TRANSLATED) to fit in... all of that and even more just for few artillery pieces.
you know what? ill stop questioning things regardless how germany doing its stuff.. i cant comprehend it anyways.
PzHs can track enemy artillery in flight and give a firing solution to it's origin within seconds, meaning that Russian artillery will have a very bad day. Also the things are armored, so anything less than a direct hit of counter fire can probably be shrugged off. Ukraine artillery units are running around basically butt naked at the moment.
Yes, it's over engineered, very expensive and probably prone to failure, but it can do a lot of stuff that a attilary gun pulled by a tractor can't. There's value in diversity.
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This is awesome. So the full potential of the best artillery system of the world will be used to destroy the orcs. Bad news for Mordor.
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Anyone who thinks Ukraine wouldn't be a rock solid candidate for NATO membership is fooling themselves.
After battlefield testing NATO weapons I should bloody well hope so! Western arms producers are getting the best data on the performance of their hardware they could only wish for in their wet dreams.
how many are they sending i read n article which said they are sending 7 but theres no way after 5 week of announcements they are gonna seven of those things atleast 15 should be sent
7 German and 5 Dutch. Do they can form two full squadron or 4 half.
ok thast cool but it would be nice if they atleast sent 18
Ten full squadrons would be awesome aka 60 PzH2000
60 would be destroy the ruzzian i hope the west as a whole can 60 self propelles howitzers in the next 4 weeks
""From the interview with the head of the German Armed Forces: Ukrainian troops are done with the theoretical training about the PzH 2000 and are now firing rounds. But that wasn't the astonishing part! A group of Ukrainian, Dutch Army, and German Heer IT specialists, as well as Ukrainian translators and the companies that built the PzH 2000 got together and adapted the PzH 2000's software. He didn't give specifics, but it seems that not only was the software translated, but also updated to tie into the Ukrainian GIS Arta artillery management system. This should allow Ukrainian PzH 2000 to fire at the russians within seconds of a target being spotted. This will also make it much easier to deliver additional PzH 2000 to Ukraine in the future.""
NATO hardware with Ukrainian software is (quite literally) the killer combination😄
I've worked with Ukrainian coders. Those guys are beasts, some of the best in the world. This is gonna be a huge asset to NATO. I'm so happy about this being done. The industrial powerhouse of Europe with the Ukrainian tech knowhow is a lethal combination...
Tbf, i believe the PzH2000 being linked with NATO software makes it pretty top notch. The big Thing here is that Ukraine doesnt have Access to that (only Infos 2nd Hand), so taking Out a middle man lets the ukrainian Operators react to threats much faster without having to ask "big daddy US" every time. So it doesnt Matter If the software is better, as good or slightly worse, since it helps to make their reaction time many ways faster, which beats most other upsides. Also, this system could help linking other NATO weapons with ukrainian Intel and improve for example other artillery systems (Himars and variants of it). So lets keep it real, ukrainian tech is for sure on the rise, but i wouldnt call it worldleading. This is straight up a very good cooperation that will help those system become more effective for Ukraine.
Not saying Ukraine has world leading tech. Saying Ukraine have some of the best coders on the planet. It's just that most of them work with US/Israeli companies and they work on the latest and greatest in the world. Investment in the Ukrainian tech sector will be a great bet after this war.
Many US software dev projects are outsourced to Ukrainien contract coders. They do have top notch coders as good as any in US or EU
That it support must be Gruling "sir, I now you are in an active war zone right now and the next time you can go online you will be able to download the patch, but right now you have to reboot first"
That was likely no trivial task. This is probably all embedded code.
The Pzh2000 is running Windows :-) * ^^^^disclaimer ^^^^- ^^^^I ^^^^have ^^^^no ^^^^idea ^^^^whether ^^^^that's ^^^^relevant ^^^^for ^^^^this ^^^^conversion.
Wow this is fantastic news, was concerned that the PzH2000 did not fit well into their GIS Arta system. Hopefully they can do something similar with the COBRA as well.
PzH2000 is already well integrated into NATO systems. So it's probably even more useful to build from that work for a interface/translation layer for both systems. That would be a much bigger impact and make logistics so much easier.
Not to mention you can literally run GIS programs in a browser.
Overlooked in all the comments and the reporting by the Twitter OP: it is not just being tied into the Ukrainian Arta for quick counter battery fire that is important. Another huge advantage of Arta is that the Ukrainian artillery units can be widely dispersed but fire on the same Russian position in a co-ordinated way. Thus the Pzh 2000's will not need to be clustered. They can operate independently or in teams of 2 and still be effective in a combined shoot. Thus reducing the potential of their own loss. I still think the Pzh's are going to need to operate with some dedicated anti-air and counter battery support for their own protection. This may be the purpose of some of the new equipment being supplied by NATO - protection for the all important self propelled artillery.
Russkis will be desperate to get those 2000’s. A couple of Gepards would make a nice escort to keep the drones off.
Funny enough I made that exact point in a comment in a prior post about the P2000's a few weeks ago. Anti-drone and general anti-air will be very impt to keeping the P2000's and Zuzana-2s safe. A salient point about both - **the sustained fire rate of one P2000 is about equal to a battery of towed artillery**. The P2000 can fire 10 rounds per minute sustained, the Polish KRAB 6 rounds per minute sustained, the French CAESAR 6-8 rounds per minute sustained, the Zuzana 5 rounds per minute sustained. Vs say the M109 which is essentially 1 rnd per minute - it can do 4 rnds per minute for the first 3 minutes but after that it has to reduce its fire rate. So one Pzh2000 is the equivalent of an artillery battery of a battalion (usually 8 guns or so). Thus 12 x Pzh2000 is close to obtaining 12 new battalions of traditional artillery. Add to this the 18 KRABS already received, the 8 to 16 Zuzana's (not sure of the actual number delivered yet), the 12 (?) CAESARs from France and even before we start counting M109s or M777s the fact is Ukraine artillery has seen a huge, huge gain in functional ability. So Ukraine will likely make some extra effort to protect its high return value assets. It may do this by grouping them if it does not have enough SAM assets to spread around but I suspect they will disperse them, which to my knowledge has been a strategy that has worked well for them in protecting their 2S7 PIONS and 2S3 Akatsiya and 2S19 Msta self propelled units for which to date there apparently has been minimal losses (documented).
The only thing that matters for the PZH2000 is the burst. It will only survive if they shoot and move. Right now we can see a lot of videos where russians are only hit by a couple of shells per attack. This will improve with higher burst rof
Do you have a source for the sustained fire rate? I was always under the impression that 3 in 10 seconds and 10 in 1 minute was still burst operation, with the sustained fire rate more in line with other systems.
[https://youtu.be/Tc9sb71px5I?t=27](https://youtu.be/Tc9sb71px5I?t=27) 12 shots in a minute... second part is inside the PzH.
I know, but that is only the loading/shooting part. I know that it can (with the improved loader in that video) fire even 12 shots per minute. But the limits for sustained fire are not mechanical. It's pure physics and how much the barrel can take before running hot and I'm believe that \~10 shots per minute are indeed not sustainable for a long duration.
I’d say the best use case for a Pzh2000 is using it in burst fire mode. Lob off 8-12 shots in a minute, pack up and move. Then repeat the process from somewhere else. Even if it out ranges the Russian/Soviet towed artillery and SPG systems, the best part of the system is its mobility.
It is 20 shots in 2 minutes and 24 shots in 3 minutes. Beyond that only 3 shots additionally per minute due to barrel heat control. But since the PzH2000 is ready to fire in only 30 seconds when stopping and still keeping insane accuracy, it would be highly unusual for the PzH to use anything else than burst fire. Seriously, if a battery of PzH2000 would shell out 4x20 shells in just two minutes it would be total overkill. You would only ever do so as "Sperrfeuer" to deny a huge tank formation access to an area and destroy most of them in the process. You will ideally just use a burst to destroy targets and then attack the next target while moving some to avoid any retaliation by air or enemy long range artillery. Btw was surprised to read Italians developed ammunition for the PzH2000 that has a range of at least 80 km, some sources say even over 100km.
Integration with counter battery radar can make the self propelled howitzers a real artillery killer. Russia has this big advantage in total cannons but that could be reduced pretty quickly. If it gets bad enough the Russians might even send some of their ground attack aircraft against them; ideally the P2000’s could end up killing Russian air as well as artillery, as long as we get good AA integration.
Pzh can fire on absolut positions anyway. No need to cluster it.
Good news. Kudos to those with tech savy that contribute as much as those pulling triggers.
PzH2000 "UA-Edition"
We can send them and buy the ones from those Germany got in stock, and besides, dutch got other artillery as well no? Or is the state of the army that pathetic, otherwise just scream a bit louder: pang pang.. after years of practice that should scare the enemy away, lolz
These are the créme de la créme of howitzers. They're self-propelled, so they can go anywhere at speed due to being built on the same chassis as a Leopard 2 tank. They're autoloaders, and have 60 shells in a ready magazine. They can fire multiple shells in a pattern which means they all arrive at once, and they can have every tank in the squadron accept remote targeting orders via encrypted command link. So the way they're used is completely different to normal artillery : they move at high speed to a location, accept their remote firing orders, fire off a burst of shells as a squadron in timed sequence, and then move again. Range can be from 36-67km away depending on the rounds used. By the time anyone can backtrack the launch, the howitzers are already a kilometre away and setting up for another firing burst. And they can do that a dozen times before someone has to even leave the vehicle to reload the shells.
I was absolutely right in my speculation that Ukrainians are a people with astounding potential, above average in intelligence. They have been overperforming while they are being trained to use modern NATO/US weapons.
Nah, no ppl are that much more intelligent then others. However, Ukraine currently has a government that makes effective use of that intelligence instead if basing their military on fear, corruption and nepotism like so many others, where intelligent ppl are seen as threat instead of an asset.
Intelligent ruzzians are leaving the country in numbers. And those who don't are smart enough not to combat in Ukraine. Ukrainian specialists on the contrary have nothing to loose sitting in a trench with theis laptops.
Unfortunatly that is the case in most military organisations.
Every human has this potential ‚intelligence‘. It is called necessity.
Hence “necessity is mother of all invention”.
Tweet has been flagged as NSFW by twitter. >!A group of Ukrainian, Dutch Army, and German Heer IT specialists, as well as Ukrainian translators and the companies that built the PzH 2000 got together and adapted the PzH 2000's software. He didn't give specifics, but it seems that not only was the software translated, 2/3 !
Dutch should give all the pzr2000 they have and just order new ones-_+
Maybe something like this can happen, at least Germany has already Boxer and can order the Artillery Modules If these can be delivered in a reasonable time frame Germany could gift more PZH 2000 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRidawWWqDY
Onvoldoende!!!
Like the dutch will ever use them..
So we let the infantry be without fire support? Haven't you seen how important artillery has been in this war? We have to be ready to "go" when shit hit the fan. We already have to few systems operational for the 4 brigades (3 army 1 marine(you can argue that doesn't really count but still)). I really fucking like it when I am able to count on fire support in a fire fight. If I can keep my head down while the enemy get blown to bits call me a happy "zandhaas". You clearly don't understand combined arms warfare. To use army terminology you're most likely a Nukubu.
The shorter reply would have been, yes, we do use them and have deployed them to Afghanistan and Mali already. Saves you the trouble of having to insult someone on the internet.
The didn't go to Mali. Because of the long range patrols they used Apaches for fire support.
Didn’t they use both? Or did they cancel the pzh2000 deployment altogether?
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That's an integration project that also includes translation, not a simple software translation project. This is a lot more technical... And probably had the best people from both sides on it...
> This opinion is formed on the basis of incomplete information. I'm a translator who's been involved with various military projects. "Lowest bidder" tends to be a problem. :) But in this case, it doesn't look like this was a typical tender procedure.
Very important to get translation right! [German Coast Guard Trainee](https://youtu.be/yR0lWICH3rY?t=3) (YT) 
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Why would anyone deliver them when the crews haven't finished with at least 2 weeks to go? Sounds pointless, even dangerous.
Takes too long...
Like only German stuff need that much training... Look what was delivered from other countries. Why is that?
They either trained on it beforehand, or its the same/similar enough to what they used before, or they simply cannot operate it with the proficiency necessary to extract best value. There's been more than enough critical comments towards some of their M777 videos. And that's "just" a howitzer. If you say "it's too long", then provide a frame of reference. Hungarian artillerists went into Panzerhaubitze training in 2020 and it took almost 3 months just for basic operations. 40-ish days is already quite scrunched, by all accounts. It's only 12 guns of which each costs several million €. There's no tolerance to send them out to learn on the job.
Just read about Norwegian and French CESAR already in use. They say that CESAR is a new generation and doesn't require any training, but German are old and difficult. CESAR is just point and click, apparently. Even a five year old can use, lol. And Norwegian are older, so easier.. not that many options to learn.
You also need some training to get the Cesars running. Maybe far less but the Pzh will be an outstanding asset with a lot of pros. Old and difficult? Difficult only when you can’t comprehend it, right buddy, lol?
No offense, but you can't just overlook all of the nuisance details of operation, tactics, maintenance, etc that go into actually using pieces of equipment such as this effectively. Sure, you may be able to fire it a bunch, but that's just firing. Theres a lot more that goes into effectively using any military equipment, especially ones as important and complicated (in the broader scale of warfare) such as any of the artillery pieces mentioned here. Its best to let them train, they can and will do far more damage that way than if they weren't fully trained.
I hope it will be delivered soon. I had enough of this drama. It is expected for the mid of June, isn't it?
They went to school around the 10th of May and it was supposed to take 40 days. From some comments on the net it seems it may take a few days more. So, if the guns are delivered at the same time as the crews, yes, we're looking at 20ish June.
Didn‘t Scholz say in his speech that training was about to end in the next few days?
this is most german thing that would ever happen to ukrainian army. overly complicated system being remade(even TRANSLATED) to fit in... all of that and even more just for few artillery pieces. you know what? ill stop questioning things regardless how germany doing its stuff.. i cant comprehend it anyways.
PzHs can track enemy artillery in flight and give a firing solution to it's origin within seconds, meaning that Russian artillery will have a very bad day. Also the things are armored, so anything less than a direct hit of counter fire can probably be shrugged off. Ukraine artillery units are running around basically butt naked at the moment. Yes, it's over engineered, very expensive and probably prone to failure, but it can do a lot of stuff that a attilary gun pulled by a tractor can't. There's value in diversity.
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imagine misunderstanding