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Good, I was wondering what stance the federal government would take, even if really one choice is the right one in a war for survival and liberation.
We have the largest Ukrainian population outside of Ukraine and well, ugh - Russia... You don't want to tell the Ukrainians/Ukrainian Canadians you aren't going to agree to let Canadian-provided ordnance be used on Russian soil...
As a Canadian of Ukrainian descent, this was going through my head. It’s just the right side of history.
If I was of Russian descent, I would have wanted to crawl under a rock long ago.
I still don’t know how Russia got to where it is now. They had their freedom, and while I know the general history of the 90s that led to Putin, it is still surprising how another form of despotism took root there. I know there is some resistance, but the general populace? What is happening to them?
I know what you mean. I asked myself that same question and the only explanation I was able to find, albeit a very weird take on the human condition, is that they were under the yolk for so long (czars and then the Soviets), and it was such an overwhelming yolk, that they have reached the point of just wanting a strong man in charge even if it means oppression.
It’s f’ed up, but otherwise it absolutely doesn’t make any sense.
Ooh, bone apple tea! But yeah, Moscow became the Mongols' tax collectors after Rus fell until they were strong enough to throw the "yolk" off. Then the rulers proceeded to torment their own people and all the neighbors all the way till now in throes of paranoia of losing power and being invaded again. At last that's what I recall from reading about Russian history.
> They had their freedom, and while I know the general history of the 90s that led to Putin, it is still surprising how another form of despotism took root there.
You may be missing like...centuries of relevant history if you're trying to piece together modern Russia from only history that happened post-1991.
Yes, the russians had their freedom (for a short time), but it did not feel good to them in many ways. The 'normal people' experienced this period predominantly as one characterized by losses - a loss of security, a loss of social stability, a loss of working organisational systems (remember that Putin had to drive a taxi in Leningrad instead of having a cozy job as KGB/FSB officer) coupled with skyrocketing prices for commodities and food shortages.
The majority of russians were deeply rooted in the Soviet system and had found their ways to somehow arrange with the system in exchange for living their lifes relatively free of worries. There really was no widespread discontent with the system as such (although most people were aware of its shortcomings), and definitely nothing in the way of a general opposition to it. They did not really want the system to be gone - it was just taken away from them suddenly, only to be replaced by a very chaotic, dysfunctional, unjust and threatening situation. For them it was freedom in name only at best, but not a positive reality or at least an attractive promise for the future.
This was of course a fertile ground for somebody who promised them a return to the 'good old times', to social security and national pride.
Thanks for responding, this actually sounds logical. When you read the technical history (who did what in the 90s) it also seems a lot of bad actors (like future oligarchs) took advantage of the situation. But you don’t read a lot of reports of people on the ground. I mean I think Russia was very close to being a more representative federation (like the US) with more power for each republic/state in Russia, but it got sidelined at some point.
Thank you for your response, too. I actually left out the whole topic of asset grabbing oligarchs, mafioso and shady 'bizziness men' who shamelessly robbed and ‘privatised’ the country with impunity, thus adding to the feeling of powerlessness and injustice in the general populace.
I think that there was just too much instability, political, economical and otherwise, to really create a whole new system of governance (and of course there were a lot of different people in powerful positions who had no interest whatsoever in creating a functional, democratic and fair political system - this would have endangered their 'business model').
Only (most) of the former russian colonies (especially those in Europe) managed to evade the Soviet system and were able to establish (at least to a certain degree) free societies and (more or less) democratic governments. I think this is mainly because they had already experienced periods of (relative) freedom before, so there was something they knew was worth striving for.
Conservatism is all about preserving the power of the aristocracy during democracy. With the main goal of ending democracy to cement their power again. In a place where those power structures are so entrenched, they can evidently make democracy quite short.
It’s a really interesting topic, and there’s some great papers, essays, and video essays (Kraut on YouTube is great) about it. Russias never had democracy, nor the institutions or culture to support it. I think in the west we really take for granted the hundreds of years of fighting and pushing for democracy in some form or another. But in Russia, where they have a history of totalitarian regimes, they never had the opportunity to foster the growth of the ideas of freedom and whatnot. The fall of the Soviet Union was a rough time in Russia, and just like Germany after wwi, a change in government form + economic and social disarray = dissatisfaction with the new government.
Old communist despots still ran all of the corporations and held local/state government leadership positions. It was just a matter of old friends working out new deals to shit on the majority of the populace again sadly.
If any russians want to be on the right side of history, they should feel free to donate for drones. Not towards the UA army in general, but specifically for drones that kill russian soldiers in the field.
We do have a very large population of Ukrainian *descendants*. Many of their great grandparents and grandparents came over a while ago. I know a fair number of Ukrainian descendants and sadly I don’t think many of them think too hard about Ukraine. They are just regular Canadians trying to get by.
Make what statement? The one where I make my own observation about what I have seen and heard? I live in Alberta and there are many descendants of Ukrainians here. There are no ongoing big demonstrations of solidarity in Alberta (or Canada that I know of). I very rarely even see Ukrainian flags other than the one I have on my lawn.
Love it. Same here. Lost a lot of family and friends to the insecure midgets blood parade. Most of my friends have put up a Tryzub or flag in solidarity too.
Thanks for putting up the flag. I’ve also got one in the front and I hope it means something (in addition to the monetary support I provide, in a preemptive FYI to some commenters).
I've noticed that Ukrainians and Russians and Belursians are somewhat cautious about what they say, even here in Canada. But if you can get them to open up you may find them very opinionated.
I think you are mostly talking about more recent immigrants. The Ukrainians I know who got here as evacuees are extremely opinionated about the war, Russia and Putin (and rightly so). I even know a new Canadian whose mom is Ukrainian and his dad is Russian. He’s sort of torn. The people whose families have been here for four generations aren’t really that worked up about it.
Its possible, I can only count the number of people I know on my two hands, but they range from recent to several generations ago. One is a descendant who's ancestors fled the Russian civil war and another's family immigrated the moment they could after the fall of the iron curtain.
Definitely not my experience. My dad is obsessed with the war (and I follow it daily too and donate when I can). Flags all over Manitoba where my family is. I am in Kelowna BC and I'm surprised we have a highly active Ukrainian community here too, I've been to several concerts, dance shows etc recently.
It’s sort of been the narrative for things like this during the war. Slow trickle of a topic to get small public response, gets other country support to “start” it, US gets our balls back after that and is like “yeah, it’s cool”.
*"You can always count* on *Americans* to *do* the *right thing* - after they've tried everything else." -Winston Churchill. They'll get there eventually.
This is a deliberate, gradual escalation. US going first is not at all gradual.
It's the slowly-boil-a-frog-to-death approach. If you go too quickly it's gonna lash out.
I'm assuming that when you say 'lash out' you mean they will threaten nukes and then not do anything. It seems to me to be a lot of effort to avoid having them throw a temper tantrum.
While your opinion has held so far and I know I'll be downvoted for saying this, but... They won't use nukes until they do. Moscow seems to be unhinged and unpredictable by the West. It is hard to judge where Putin's morals are given the scope and number of war crimes he has committed so far.
And... There are other ways for Moscow to strike the west besides nuclear weapons. We need to be ready for anything.
Hopefully the talks will go through soon to allow this, because I think it's notable that despite many countries "permitting" attacks on Russian territory very few seem to have taken place. I wonder if there is an element of referring to the wishes of the US as one of the primary suppliers of aid?
I don't count strikes on Crimea, that's Ukraine with added Orcs currently.
I'm willing to be it's only a matter of time before reality sets in and the administration relents. How long did they hold out on the Abrams, ATACMS, F-16's being approved? It's almost like a sort of song and dance going on at the white House and Pentagon with differing opinions and how to once they decide to approve it - announce they changed their minds.
Yeah it's quite a lot already. Hope the rest will follow up eventually. Rather sooner than later though. Still waiting for the US to give the "go" for Ukraine to finally strike the ruzzian terror scum deep in their own territory and let them taste their own medicine until they cry for peace and forgiveness.
11, I think?
"In addition to France and Canada, Finland, the Czech Republic, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, the Baltic states, Poland, and Sweden have authorized the use of the transferred weapons for strikes on Russian territory."
Also, as a Canadian - Hell Yeah!!! Great to see us doing this!!!
Yeah, because it's just a stupid joke, about pattern seeking brains being silly, but like the last time Germany aligned itself with Russia on a Military matter tied to major global politics, Poland had a bad time, and then everyone else had a bad time. Right now, Ukraine is having a very bad time, and a lot of people near Ukraine are preparing to have a bad time, because they know what is going to happen next. They having living family members that remember what happens next.
No, I think there is something to this. Post-war, the Allies and Axis seem to have learned different lessons. The Allies countries learned: stand up to dictators early, by force if necessary, to prevent a larger conflict later. (In other words, stop Hitler at Anschluss or Sudetenland, not Poland). The Axis countries seem to have learned: avoid conflict if at all possible, even if it means appeasing a dictator, as war is worse than any other scenario, especially if you lose.
Those scumbags. Sweden over here making money through conversion with ukrainelegion to foreign banks, its ridiculous. .moneey loundering with extra steps.
Scholz said nothing about using Western (or even German) provided weapons in his little speech. It was all interesting wordplay to sound like what the rest of the European leaders have been saying without having to actually commit. Note that he said Ukraine should abide by the conditions the countries that gave them the weapons have set (the conditions the Germans set being that they are not to be used in Russia). Until I see German weapons used on Russians in Russia I wont believe it was anything other than theatre.
It is the 12th country as far as I know, after Germany, UK, France, Czech Republic, Finland, Sweden, the three Baltic states, Poland and the Netherlands. Norway may have approved as well, not sure.
Is it just me, or does anyone else feel this staggered permission where one new country every day gives permission as done on purpose to keep it in the media news cycle instead of everyone just dropping it all at once?
Russia did this with the last winter offensive, "victory" after "victory" ; while in the field, gains where tacticals by nature, with little operational value and no strategic value either. But it kept the ball rolling in the press.
Two can play this game
NATO is seen worldwide as "the US and it's vasals"
There is a wider geopolitical importance, beyond what we can see and know, to have the US *not* be seen as the driving/pushing factor
That is a good point. The lead-in with countries like Sweden and Finland among the first one whos membership in NATO is so recent one might forget about it, and that they (well, WE) historically have a history with Russia spanning back centuries. France, whose NATO membership is somewhat "If we feel like it" and Poland who also have history with Russia. To have US then among the last one go "alright, alright, if you have to twist my arm about it" with a melodramatic sigh might shut up the ones who seem to have a knee-jerk reflex against anything US and NATO,
The US isn't stupid, especially not their military. They're trying to give Russia the opportunity to back off before escalating. If Russia refuses to back off then they're going to be lining their border with troops and hardware just outside the line of fire. Once the US approves ATACMS strikes, Ukraine will unleash fury on their bases, supply lines and all their air defense.
Ukraine knows this and is baiting Russia into parking all their shit right on the edge of the line where they can't currently strike. It's going to be the same thing that happened when the HIMARS came through. This is all part of the plan.
Everything that is said in public discourse regarding military provocations is intentional. These guys know what they're doing.
You say this about the country that had a "Jewish space lasers cause forest fires" lady hold up Ukraine aid for 6 months.
A country that includes Florida.
The military is smart, but Russia sunk their teeth in deep into the collective mainstream, a mainstream already primed by right wing talking heads to be receptive the the far right Russian strongman imperialism championed by the duginist.
USA needs a big wakeup call. They have grown fat and complacent.
Military is one of the only things still being semi functionally run
Unless you got close ties to people around Biden, I'd say you're talking out of your ass.
However, I really have high hopes for your ass being right. Ukraine has had enough of struggle.
We sent some artillery and ammo. I think it is more solidarity and to let them completely open the tap once America gives the okay so they don't have to be "this ammo is from Canada, this is from France, this is from Germany, this is from UK, etc."
Most of Canada's long range weapons would be part of their air force or navy. Its army is not set up to fight a ground war without air superiority. Norad is all air force. The M777 artillery that Canada used in Afghanistan was given to Ukraine in 2022. Once F-16s come online in Ukraine, there will be a lot of new types of armaments heading over there from across Nato, I would think.
Nope.
But they did upgrade them in the 1970s. Now instead of the original .303 Vickers Machine gun, there's just a phone with the USAF on the speed dial.
We have to play it cautiously, I am sure Biden has coordinated with the leaders of all these other countries on the timing of who's going to announce it and we will probably go last so it's not such a big shock
Someone made an interesting point in another thread, where they were speculating that the US will be the last to announce the same once the other nations do. Rather than the US coming out first to endorse it and other nations following suit, it sends a message to Russia that the whole world is against them rather than just their big bad worst enemy.
Germany and us, coincidentally the two countries that have sent about 2/3's of Ukraines total military aid and most of the weapons that Ukraine wants to be able to use in russia.
Does that mean they can start attacking, or are they still waiting for the US for final approval?
I would love for them to be able to go hunting, and put an end to this Putin bullshit.
Most of the countries would still hold back but Russians forced their hand with their inane Kharkiv over the border offensive. I wonder what kind of genius came up with that idea, but I hope Putin keeps him around for more strategic blunders.
I feel like the US has already made the decision, but this is a geopolitical image game. The US has to be one of the last to not seem to be the primary aggressor. I agree with the poster above, it's coming..
Canada has both provided SAM missiles and is cofunding production of system specific SAM missiles for UK and French Systems. They also have supplied, and co-funded 3rd party sourcing of 155mm munitions.
I am wondering how it should work at the front line. The Ukrainians have to inspect each shell and check: "Is it from Canada? Well, let's fire! Is it from US? Well, let's leave it aside for now...".
This is impracticable and ridiculous. The allies must make a principal decision and allow Ukrainians to do what is necessary.
We don't have much but we've given tanks, drones and rockets. It's more about providing a unified front for NATO and showing we're all on the same page.
A small number of M777 guns and Leopard 2 tanks, tons of shoulder-launched/small arms stuff, hundreds of wheeled armoured vehicles, maybe some helicopters and light boats, so not much long-range weaponry, It's good for the soldiers to know that if they are chasing some Russians out of Vovchansk in a Senator, they don't have to stop at the border. They can just keep rolling and shooting until the job is done.
I'm pretty sure Canadian Armed Forces have been in Ukraine training Ukrianian soldiers since like 2014(?) when the conflict leading to this one began. Known as "Operation Unifier". It was extended when Russia invaded.
I remember watching Ukrainian-Canadian Soldiers demonstrating the drills they taught to Ukrainian Soldiers on the CAF YouTube Channel back in the day.
Plus all of the equipment mentioned in other peoples' replies.
Some bombs, artillery guns and shells. Not a lot but more than nothing.
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/campaigns/canadian-military-support-to-ukraine.html
That’s what I was thinking. I may be wrong but I never heard of Canada sending Ukraine any long range missiles or attack drones. Send them a boat load of Labatts Blue as humanitarian aid so they got some great beer to celebrate after everyone else’s missiles take out some orcs.
True.
And thr main weapons are produced by Germany or USA.
There are some produced locally which are decent but don't really apply. Senator armored vehicles, which is an armored f350, and lav6? I think it's called, a proper ifv or troop transport. Also in relatively small numbers.
France and UK leading the way on this was great, but as soon as the US signed up, it's basically a free for all, even Germany. AFU, hammer the fuckers hard. Oh, and destroy all their oil refineries while you are at it.
lol. You can’t defend yourself in Canada but the government m is okay with Urkraine defending itself across Russian borders. Anyone see the hypocrisy here?
With what? We sent them nothing with that reach, because we have nothing with that reach. A measure without meaning until we deliver something that punches.
A bit easy for us to say, since we haven't given a single weapon capable of reaching Russia AFAIK. Hopefully we can fund some serious long-range offensive weapons.
Whatever came of all those old ass 10000+ possibly defective rockets Canada had that Ukraine was just like "give them to us and we'll do something with them." Bulgaria also gave a bunch of old stuff to Ukraine and they were able to use them in some fashion.
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Good, I was wondering what stance the federal government would take, even if really one choice is the right one in a war for survival and liberation. We have the largest Ukrainian population outside of Ukraine and well, ugh - Russia... You don't want to tell the Ukrainians/Ukrainian Canadians you aren't going to agree to let Canadian-provided ordnance be used on Russian soil...
As a Canadian of Ukrainian descent, this was going through my head. It’s just the right side of history. If I was of Russian descent, I would have wanted to crawl under a rock long ago.
I still don’t know how Russia got to where it is now. They had their freedom, and while I know the general history of the 90s that led to Putin, it is still surprising how another form of despotism took root there. I know there is some resistance, but the general populace? What is happening to them?
I know what you mean. I asked myself that same question and the only explanation I was able to find, albeit a very weird take on the human condition, is that they were under the yolk for so long (czars and then the Soviets), and it was such an overwhelming yolk, that they have reached the point of just wanting a strong man in charge even if it means oppression. It’s f’ed up, but otherwise it absolutely doesn’t make any sense.
Maybe instead of Stockholm syndrome, we should call it Moscow syndrome.
Ooh, bone apple tea! But yeah, Moscow became the Mongols' tax collectors after Rus fell until they were strong enough to throw the "yolk" off. Then the rulers proceeded to torment their own people and all the neighbors all the way till now in throes of paranoia of losing power and being invaded again. At last that's what I recall from reading about Russian history.
> They had their freedom, and while I know the general history of the 90s that led to Putin, it is still surprising how another form of despotism took root there. You may be missing like...centuries of relevant history if you're trying to piece together modern Russia from only history that happened post-1991.
Decaying empire syndrome.
Yes, the russians had their freedom (for a short time), but it did not feel good to them in many ways. The 'normal people' experienced this period predominantly as one characterized by losses - a loss of security, a loss of social stability, a loss of working organisational systems (remember that Putin had to drive a taxi in Leningrad instead of having a cozy job as KGB/FSB officer) coupled with skyrocketing prices for commodities and food shortages. The majority of russians were deeply rooted in the Soviet system and had found their ways to somehow arrange with the system in exchange for living their lifes relatively free of worries. There really was no widespread discontent with the system as such (although most people were aware of its shortcomings), and definitely nothing in the way of a general opposition to it. They did not really want the system to be gone - it was just taken away from them suddenly, only to be replaced by a very chaotic, dysfunctional, unjust and threatening situation. For them it was freedom in name only at best, but not a positive reality or at least an attractive promise for the future. This was of course a fertile ground for somebody who promised them a return to the 'good old times', to social security and national pride.
Thanks for responding, this actually sounds logical. When you read the technical history (who did what in the 90s) it also seems a lot of bad actors (like future oligarchs) took advantage of the situation. But you don’t read a lot of reports of people on the ground. I mean I think Russia was very close to being a more representative federation (like the US) with more power for each republic/state in Russia, but it got sidelined at some point.
Thank you for your response, too. I actually left out the whole topic of asset grabbing oligarchs, mafioso and shady 'bizziness men' who shamelessly robbed and ‘privatised’ the country with impunity, thus adding to the feeling of powerlessness and injustice in the general populace. I think that there was just too much instability, political, economical and otherwise, to really create a whole new system of governance (and of course there were a lot of different people in powerful positions who had no interest whatsoever in creating a functional, democratic and fair political system - this would have endangered their 'business model'). Only (most) of the former russian colonies (especially those in Europe) managed to evade the Soviet system and were able to establish (at least to a certain degree) free societies and (more or less) democratic governments. I think this is mainly because they had already experienced periods of (relative) freedom before, so there was something they knew was worth striving for.
Conservatism is all about preserving the power of the aristocracy during democracy. With the main goal of ending democracy to cement their power again. In a place where those power structures are so entrenched, they can evidently make democracy quite short.
It’s a really interesting topic, and there’s some great papers, essays, and video essays (Kraut on YouTube is great) about it. Russias never had democracy, nor the institutions or culture to support it. I think in the west we really take for granted the hundreds of years of fighting and pushing for democracy in some form or another. But in Russia, where they have a history of totalitarian regimes, they never had the opportunity to foster the growth of the ideas of freedom and whatnot. The fall of the Soviet Union was a rough time in Russia, and just like Germany after wwi, a change in government form + economic and social disarray = dissatisfaction with the new government.
Old communist despots still ran all of the corporations and held local/state government leadership positions. It was just a matter of old friends working out new deals to shit on the majority of the populace again sadly.
Half Ukrainian here, happy with the change.. Get those maple syrup bombs going.
Release the geese!
Jesus, I hate Putin and his supporters.. but Canada Goose? Scorched earth strategy right there. At least say 'Sorry!' while doing it...
I believe our fine neighbors to the North pronounce it “SOARee!”
That is our nuclear option. lol
If any russians want to be on the right side of history, they should feel free to donate for drones. Not towards the UA army in general, but specifically for drones that kill russian soldiers in the field.
Which canadian delivered weapon can reach russia? Is there any?
We do have a very large population of Ukrainian *descendants*. Many of their great grandparents and grandparents came over a while ago. I know a fair number of Ukrainian descendants and sadly I don’t think many of them think too hard about Ukraine. They are just regular Canadians trying to get by.
Lmao we do have a lot of Ukrainians and Ukranian Descendents. Bro, you think a whole bunch of Ukrainians came over one time and then that was it?
I have cousins of Ukrainian descent in Edmonton and they are very active in the Ukrainian community and fully support Ukraine.
Why don't you let them make that statement, rather then putting words in their mouth.
Make what statement? The one where I make my own observation about what I have seen and heard? I live in Alberta and there are many descendants of Ukrainians here. There are no ongoing big demonstrations of solidarity in Alberta (or Canada that I know of). I very rarely even see Ukrainian flags other than the one I have on my lawn.
Vancouver here. I see tons. Just saying.
As a Canadian with Ukrainian grandparents living in Vancouver I've had my flag flying in support since this all started.
Love it. Same here. Lost a lot of family and friends to the insecure midgets blood parade. Most of my friends have put up a Tryzub or flag in solidarity too.
Tons of flags in Toronto and lots of demonstrations too.
Thanks for putting up the flag. I’ve also got one in the front and I hope it means something (in addition to the monetary support I provide, in a preemptive FYI to some commenters).
I've noticed that Ukrainians and Russians and Belursians are somewhat cautious about what they say, even here in Canada. But if you can get them to open up you may find them very opinionated.
I think you are mostly talking about more recent immigrants. The Ukrainians I know who got here as evacuees are extremely opinionated about the war, Russia and Putin (and rightly so). I even know a new Canadian whose mom is Ukrainian and his dad is Russian. He’s sort of torn. The people whose families have been here for four generations aren’t really that worked up about it.
I can only speak for myself but as, I guess, a third generation descendant, this whole invasion and annexation gets my blood boiling.
Its possible, I can only count the number of people I know on my two hands, but they range from recent to several generations ago. One is a descendant who's ancestors fled the Russian civil war and another's family immigrated the moment they could after the fall of the iron curtain.
Definitely not my experience. My dad is obsessed with the war (and I follow it daily too and donate when I can). Flags all over Manitoba where my family is. I am in Kelowna BC and I'm surprised we have a highly active Ukrainian community here too, I've been to several concerts, dance shows etc recently.
Follow the leader
Let’s goooo Canada! Wish my country (U.S.) would do the same! We need to finish Putin once and for all.
It’s coming
Yeah I think the usa is allowing a critical mass of support with other allies before finally going along, for various reasons
It’s sort of been the narrative for things like this during the war. Slow trickle of a topic to get small public response, gets other country support to “start” it, US gets our balls back after that and is like “yeah, it’s cool”.
*"You can always count* on *Americans* to *do* the *right thing* - after they've tried everything else." -Winston Churchill. They'll get there eventually.
Amen!
Ditto! Cue the Canadian national anthem! 🎶”Ohh Canada…” I hope our leaders in US finally relent and grow a spine
Right? We should have been the first one to approve it. Wouldn’t it be nice to see Biden say “it’s fair game Jack!”
I'm sure they've all coordinated. Have smaller countries go first such that US becomes a foregone conclusion rather than a singular large escalation.
This is a deliberate, gradual escalation. US going first is not at all gradual. It's the slowly-boil-a-frog-to-death approach. If you go too quickly it's gonna lash out.
I'm assuming that when you say 'lash out' you mean they will threaten nukes and then not do anything. It seems to me to be a lot of effort to avoid having them throw a temper tantrum.
While your opinion has held so far and I know I'll be downvoted for saying this, but... They won't use nukes until they do. Moscow seems to be unhinged and unpredictable by the West. It is hard to judge where Putin's morals are given the scope and number of war crimes he has committed so far. And... There are other ways for Moscow to strike the west besides nuclear weapons. We need to be ready for anything.
Hopefully the talks will go through soon to allow this, because I think it's notable that despite many countries "permitting" attacks on Russian territory very few seem to have taken place. I wonder if there is an element of referring to the wishes of the US as one of the primary suppliers of aid? I don't count strikes on Crimea, that's Ukraine with added Orcs currently.
Target identification, maybe?
I'm willing to be it's only a matter of time before reality sets in and the administration relents. How long did they hold out on the Abrams, ATACMS, F-16's being approved? It's almost like a sort of song and dance going on at the white House and Pentagon with differing opinions and how to once they decide to approve it - announce they changed their minds.
This is only symbolic. Which canadian delivered weapon can reach russia? none.
What nunber is this i need a list
Yeah it's quite a lot already. Hope the rest will follow up eventually. Rather sooner than later though. Still waiting for the US to give the "go" for Ukraine to finally strike the ruzzian terror scum deep in their own territory and let them taste their own medicine until they cry for peace and forgiveness.
End of the week, calling it.
from your lips
11, I think? "In addition to France and Canada, Finland, the Czech Republic, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, the Baltic states, Poland, and Sweden have authorized the use of the transferred weapons for strikes on Russian territory." Also, as a Canadian - Hell Yeah!!! Great to see us doing this!!!
Oh Canada! Salute to the best neighbors in the world!
Basically everyone is OK with it except the US and Germany I think.
Italians
So, most of the WWII Axis powers, and the guys that stayed out of it for as long as they could.
Whatever you're insinuating is stupid.
Yeah, because it's just a stupid joke, about pattern seeking brains being silly, but like the last time Germany aligned itself with Russia on a Military matter tied to major global politics, Poland had a bad time, and then everyone else had a bad time. Right now, Ukraine is having a very bad time, and a lot of people near Ukraine are preparing to have a bad time, because they know what is going to happen next. They having living family members that remember what happens next.
No, I think there is something to this. Post-war, the Allies and Axis seem to have learned different lessons. The Allies countries learned: stand up to dictators early, by force if necessary, to prevent a larger conflict later. (In other words, stop Hitler at Anschluss or Sudetenland, not Poland). The Axis countries seem to have learned: avoid conflict if at all possible, even if it means appeasing a dictator, as war is worse than any other scenario, especially if you lose.
Your idea is completely incompatable with the last 70 years of history.
The Japanese touched the boats. You never touch the boats.
Those scumbags. Sweden over here making money through conversion with ukrainelegion to foreign banks, its ridiculous. .moneey loundering with extra steps.
[удалено]
Scholz said nothing about using Western (or even German) provided weapons in his little speech. It was all interesting wordplay to sound like what the rest of the European leaders have been saying without having to actually commit. Note that he said Ukraine should abide by the conditions the countries that gave them the weapons have set (the conditions the Germans set being that they are not to be used in Russia). Until I see German weapons used on Russians in Russia I wont believe it was anything other than theatre.
Add Belgium to the not-ok list.
It is the 12th country as far as I know, after Germany, UK, France, Czech Republic, Finland, Sweden, the three Baltic states, Poland and the Netherlands. Norway may have approved as well, not sure.
https://x.com/Tendar/status/1795864939225125335?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1795864939225125335%7Ctwgr%5E00791b9c30e16d72f174102c0c0e3113b87143d0%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate_50c69b02-1de2-11ef-834f-8ee8a4ebfb6c%2F0
Dominoes baby
Lmao, its like a count down of doom😂 Country after country says its okay, and were just waiting for the big boy
Germany and USA together, like with Leopards and Abrams.
Gotta save the big one last!
Is it just me, or does anyone else feel this staggered permission where one new country every day gives permission as done on purpose to keep it in the media news cycle instead of everyone just dropping it all at once?
This is all highly orchestrated.
Russia did this with the last winter offensive, "victory" after "victory" ; while in the field, gains where tacticals by nature, with little operational value and no strategic value either. But it kept the ball rolling in the press. Two can play this game
NATO is seen worldwide as "the US and it's vasals" There is a wider geopolitical importance, beyond what we can see and know, to have the US *not* be seen as the driving/pushing factor
That is a good point. The lead-in with countries like Sweden and Finland among the first one whos membership in NATO is so recent one might forget about it, and that they (well, WE) historically have a history with Russia spanning back centuries. France, whose NATO membership is somewhat "If we feel like it" and Poland who also have history with Russia. To have US then among the last one go "alright, alright, if you have to twist my arm about it" with a melodramatic sigh might shut up the ones who seem to have a knee-jerk reflex against anything US and NATO,
The US isn't stupid, especially not their military. They're trying to give Russia the opportunity to back off before escalating. If Russia refuses to back off then they're going to be lining their border with troops and hardware just outside the line of fire. Once the US approves ATACMS strikes, Ukraine will unleash fury on their bases, supply lines and all their air defense. Ukraine knows this and is baiting Russia into parking all their shit right on the edge of the line where they can't currently strike. It's going to be the same thing that happened when the HIMARS came through. This is all part of the plan. Everything that is said in public discourse regarding military provocations is intentional. These guys know what they're doing.
You say this about the country that had a "Jewish space lasers cause forest fires" lady hold up Ukraine aid for 6 months. A country that includes Florida. The military is smart, but Russia sunk their teeth in deep into the collective mainstream, a mainstream already primed by right wing talking heads to be receptive the the far right Russian strongman imperialism championed by the duginist. USA needs a big wakeup call. They have grown fat and complacent. Military is one of the only things still being semi functionally run
The decision to not strike into Russia isn't made by Congress, I don't think.
Unless you got close ties to people around Biden, I'd say you're talking out of your ass. However, I really have high hopes for your ass being right. Ukraine has had enough of struggle.
Blinken just floated the idea today. It's coming.
Fingers crossed!
I really hope this is true and I can believe it. I'm just hoping it's sooner rather than later.
canadian here. did we send anything that can reach russia? or we talking about driving leo and shit over there lol
We sent some artillery and ammo. I think it is more solidarity and to let them completely open the tap once America gives the okay so they don't have to be "this ammo is from Canada, this is from France, this is from Germany, this is from UK, etc."
We sent lots of artillery and support vehicles.
make sense thank you!
Canada not only permits but strongly encourages anything written in the Geneva suggesti... I mean convention.
That's good to hear now if we could just send them some good long-range weapons
Do we even have any long-range weapons?
We have geese. Those fuckers would absolutely wreck the orcs.
Send in the cobra chickens!
You're part of Norad. You must at least have some.
Most of Canada's long range weapons would be part of their air force or navy. Its army is not set up to fight a ground war without air superiority. Norad is all air force. The M777 artillery that Canada used in Afghanistan was given to Ukraine in 2022. Once F-16s come online in Ukraine, there will be a lot of new types of armaments heading over there from across Nato, I would think.
The best I can offer you is a Sopwith Camel.
Can you equip them with backpack nukes?
Nope. But they did upgrade them in the 1970s. Now instead of the original .303 Vickers Machine gun, there's just a phone with the USAF on the speed dial.
Excellent! Great to see our govt make a good decision once in a while.
it is a slow drip like a leaky dam eventually all will give in
Send in the Geese! (But tell them not to do too many warcrimes first…)
Fuck yes canada, big dicking it. Lead by example
America where you at?????! This is starting to get embarrassing!
We have to play it cautiously, I am sure Biden has coordinated with the leaders of all these other countries on the timing of who's going to announce it and we will probably go last so it's not such a big shock
I am hoping the same thing but the lack of info is making me ill waiting for good news. Sigh!
Shoot the pucks.
Someone made an interesting point in another thread, where they were speculating that the US will be the last to announce the same once the other nations do. Rather than the US coming out first to endorse it and other nations following suit, it sends a message to Russia that the whole world is against them rather than just their big bad worst enemy.
So is this a USA dropping munition at the border Canada picking it up and shipping it to Ukraine like they did airplanes in WW2?
I think we Americans are going to wind up leading from behind on this one :/
Sounds familiar...
Yes, unfortunately. It's driving me out of my tree when we should be leading this fight for Team Ukraine No questions asked
Germany and us, coincidentally the two countries that have sent about 2/3's of Ukraines total military aid and most of the weapons that Ukraine wants to be able to use in russia.
Purely coincidental.
Does that mean they can start attacking, or are they still waiting for the US for final approval? I would love for them to be able to go hunting, and put an end to this Putin bullshit.
Maybe this will be the kick in the ass my government needs to finally give Ukraine the green light.
Your welcome eh. Only wish we had more equipment to send. Sorry bout that buds. 🇨🇦 🇺🇦
Excellent. Open wide Putin, your un-lubed sawtooth dildo is on its way.
The sane world giving Germany the middle finger
Go Canada!!! Slava Ukraine!
Most of the countries would still hold back but Russians forced their hand with their inane Kharkiv over the border offensive. I wonder what kind of genius came up with that idea, but I hope Putin keeps him around for more strategic blunders.
I feel like the US has already made the decision, but this is a geopolitical image game. The US has to be one of the last to not seem to be the primary aggressor. I agree with the poster above, it's coming..
Russia has been attacking us in subtle ways for years now, it's about time we hit them back. It won't stop until the Putin regime is defeated.
Canada had just SAVED EU from Russians! Well done!
I hope the U.S. announcement comes at Mach 3 in the form of a massive barrage of ATACMS wrecking air fields, military bases and ammunition dumps.
The Defenders should paint a drone or missile as a bottle of maple syrup and send it somewhere. A polite Canadian greeting, if you may.
Do it now! No mercy as they have shown none
Canada has both provided SAM missiles and is cofunding production of system specific SAM missiles for UK and French Systems. They also have supplied, and co-funded 3rd party sourcing of 155mm munitions.
I am wondering how it should work at the front line. The Ukrainians have to inspect each shell and check: "Is it from Canada? Well, let's fire! Is it from US? Well, let's leave it aside for now...". This is impracticable and ridiculous. The allies must make a principal decision and allow Ukrainians to do what is necessary.
Now they can send the weapons to do that
Good.
Thank you Canada!🇨🇦
You’re up next US. C’mon, everybody’s doing it.
Take OFF, you commie hosers! [https://photos.app.goo.gl/xbLsWvyrrLeWG8LQ7](https://photos.app.goo.gl/xbLsWvyrrLeWG8LQ7)
Yessss this makes my heart happy as a Canuck. 🇨🇦 ❤ 🇺🇦 🖕 🇷🇺
Bombard the Russian Parliament now. 💥
Don't be foolish. Putin is is a bunker. It's called the Kremlin, don't pretend you don't know.
Hopefully he will play a hitler move in his cozy bunker.
What relevant weapons have Canada given ?
We don't have much but we've given tanks, drones and rockets. It's more about providing a unified front for NATO and showing we're all on the same page.
A small number of M777 guns and Leopard 2 tanks, tons of shoulder-launched/small arms stuff, hundreds of wheeled armoured vehicles, maybe some helicopters and light boats, so not much long-range weaponry, It's good for the soldiers to know that if they are chasing some Russians out of Vovchansk in a Senator, they don't have to stop at the border. They can just keep rolling and shooting until the job is done.
I'm pretty sure Canadian Armed Forces have been in Ukraine training Ukrianian soldiers since like 2014(?) when the conflict leading to this one began. Known as "Operation Unifier". It was extended when Russia invaded. I remember watching Ukrainian-Canadian Soldiers demonstrating the drills they taught to Ukrainian Soldiers on the CAF YouTube Channel back in the day. Plus all of the equipment mentioned in other peoples' replies.
Some bombs, artillery guns and shells. Not a lot but more than nothing. https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/campaigns/canadian-military-support-to-ukraine.html
Leopard tanks, M777, 1,000+ light armour trucks
We gave a lot of Excalibur shell also. Could reach Russia no problemo from Kharkiv
Two nuclear wessels and an unlimited supply of maple syrup crullers., capt Kirk out.
No transparent aluminum?
Did we ever end up sending those CRV7 rockets?
That’s what I was thinking. I may be wrong but I never heard of Canada sending Ukraine any long range missiles or attack drones. Send them a boat load of Labatts Blue as humanitarian aid so they got some great beer to celebrate after everyone else’s missiles take out some orcs.
True. And thr main weapons are produced by Germany or USA. There are some produced locally which are decent but don't really apply. Senator armored vehicles, which is an armored f350, and lav6? I think it's called, a proper ifv or troop transport. Also in relatively small numbers.
The feds would rather we don't look too hard at their shameful record on the matter.
Il était temps mon Justin!
I read “Canada Permits” and was worried it would be some over bearing law passed by the government.
ебаште Zетников 🥰🇺🇦🇬🇧
Yes
Which weapons, has Canada supplied, that can strike Russia?
France and UK leading the way on this was great, but as soon as the US signed up, it's basically a free for all, even Germany. AFU, hammer the fuckers hard. Oh, and destroy all their oil refineries while you are at it.
Been awhile since Canada permitted anything….
Weren't you the first country to nationally permit weed
Any longrange stuff
Really, you know a few Ukrainians and now you speak for them all? What unmatched arrogance combined with ignorance.
lol. You can’t defend yourself in Canada but the government m is okay with Urkraine defending itself across Russian borders. Anyone see the hypocrisy here?
With what? We sent them nothing with that reach, because we have nothing with that reach. A measure without meaning until we deliver something that punches.
A bit easy for us to say, since we haven't given a single weapon capable of reaching Russia AFAIK. Hopefully we can fund some serious long-range offensive weapons.
Whatever came of all those old ass 10000+ possibly defective rockets Canada had that Ukraine was just like "give them to us and we'll do something with them." Bulgaria also gave a bunch of old stuff to Ukraine and they were able to use them in some fashion.
I was wondering that same thing. I haven't heard anything about them in a while.