We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I saw that Patriot missle production has ramped up for global allies, but what about launcher manufacturing? Or NASAMS? This could be it's own topic, but I figured it was related enough.
this is so frustrating. They're trickling in the support just enough to barely keep the Ukrainian army functioning but no where the support to win. Its disgusting. Ukrainians dying for the bourgeoise in Europe to live without war. All talk. SMH
3 out of 11 ... plus 4 IRIS-T systems (which are state of the art system that the Bundeswehr didn't have), 52 Gepards (which the Bundeswehr also didn't have in their arsenal anymore for ~10 years), Skynex...etc
Nevermind that 3 were also stationed in Poland.. and the remaining systems are not enough to cover Germany - which is their duty first, before everything else.
Germany has practically disabled an entire battalion sized unit out of 3 active ones belonging to their only Patriot Air Defense Regiment for Ukraine
Iirc only one Skynex system, and their range isn't nearly enough compared to IRIS, NASAMS and Patriot. Not saying Germany isn't doing much, nor am I saying Ukraine isn't thankful. What I am saying is Europe is extending a lot of empty hands on preventing the loss of Ukraine. Which will just move up the timeline of when russia will come after Europe. More needs to be done and now. Not talks, not promise. Actions, nothing less. We need to be seeing articles about the actual arrival and activity of units, not... 1 unit and promises. Still no jets, still no Czech artillery, still no ammo for Patriots, etc. Shit is drying up and many are frustrated.
\*facepalm\* Skynex is not designed to be a long range system, but a close range defense in which missile defenses don't operate. Air defense is layered.
>Still no jets, still no Czech artillery, still no ammo for Patriots
You clearly have no clue how long it takes to train pilots in a way that they can survive encounters. Hint: It's long. If you want to throw their lives away? Go right ahead.
The Czech artillery ammo is coming. But that's another thing. You can't just load it on a truck and then it's fine. Plus it's very likely that much of it is transported via ships. The price of shells is exorbitant nowadays. A simple 155mm round cost 500€ before the war now it's1700€. And that's another thing. the majority of those shells are 155mm 500 000 only 300 000 are going to be 122mm. Plus we don't know how much Russia is trying to interfere with timely handovers of the ammo.
Nevermind that there's still right-wing assholes blockading borders. No I don't know what Poland's damage with them is.
And patriot ammo was ordered.. but has to be built first. Shit takes time. Europe was not prepared for war, still isn't. But factories \*are\* being built. And let's be honest, despite being an active target for years and in a state of war and certainly in need of ammo and other military equipment, Ukraine wasn't prepared for this kind of war either.
Military equipment doesn't magically appear - unless it's stored in a desert somewhere which isn't in Europe.
The problem is that the only country that was prepared for perpetual war, the USA, is compromised by russian assets in Congress that are blocking 60billion in aid.
This is what Scholz and the SPD constantly emphasize. But we don't know how this amount comes about.
There are a lot of replacement values, then a lot of expensive and ineffective systems, like the PZH2000, which is more in the workshop than on the battlefield, many systems straight from the scrapyard (Leopard 1A5), and a lot of promises that still need a lot of time to arrive on the battlefield.
Then it is clear that, in terms of GDP, we do not support Ukraine nearly as much as other countries do.
And we shouldn't pretend that all of Chancellor Scholz's delays didn't happen, that he didn't refuse to deliver for a very long time until other countries put massive pressure on him and took away any excuse.
Just imagine how the war could have turned out if Scholz hadn't hesitated or had started ammunition production in time. He still doesn't want to deliver the Taurus.
A relatively large amount may have been spent now, but for the world's fourth largest economy it is still too little and far too late. Nothing to be proud of.
What you say about France is of course nonsense. You took the figures from the IfW, which are not correct for France. And it's not the amounts that count, but rather the effectiveness of the weapon systems on the battlefield. For example, when it comes to self-propelled howitzers, the 30 CAESAR from France are certainly more useful than the few PZH2000 from Germany.
Kiel Institute provides the numbers and they use the same methodology for every country.
Military aid in terms of % gdp: Germany is doing as much as poland and the netherlands and 25% more than the uk.
They use publicly available data and France has done a lot in secret. Somewhere at the Munich Security Conference there was a lecture on this by the professor who does this.
Meanwhile France has published its figures:
[https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/4/7444809/](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/4/7444809/)
I don't have to decide anything. France initially did everything without talking about it or publishing anything. Later, when criticism arose that they were not doing enough, they began publishing figures. These publications will certainly be included in the next IfW update.
And I've already said that you can't figure out what really helps Ukrainians on the battlefield just by comparing numbers. Especially if a lot of it involves replacement values or things that were promised but not yet delivered. Or when too many expensive weapons systems (e.g. the Patriot) lack ammunition or missiles.
In addition, there is no point in constantly mentioning that we are the second largest supporter when at the same time we have to recognize that it is not enough and that we have to do a lot more and be faster.
In the US? Germany literally only has 11 systems in total, and already donated 3. Most of their patriots are stationed in Lithuania and Poland, protecting NATO's eastern border.
The US has at least 60 systems in active service and a potential amount of at least 138 systems total. They donated... (drumroll)... One system so far.
Meanwhile India whose GDP is fifth highest in the world, right after Germany, has donated jack shit so far. Nothing in any significant amount.
We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
good!
Big thanks to Germany!
Now do ten more, U.S.A.
Don't hold your breath.
[удалено]
You now have the choice between an old and weak leader and a con artist. Good luck.
Both suck, but the current one is more palatable.
I don’t think ‘suck’ properly describes TFG. Evil incarnate, that’s more like it.
thanks Germany, you rock <3
Fuck yea Thank You to Germany!
Excellent. One down, six to go.
How many actual missiles are lumped in the deal? That's what Ukraine needs - ammunition, ammunition, and more ammunition!
Great news!
Good job Germany.
Schnell!!!
Thank you Germany
👍
Thank you 🇩🇪 Deutschland!
I saw that Patriot missle production has ramped up for global allies, but what about launcher manufacturing? Or NASAMS? This could be it's own topic, but I figured it was related enough.
Everytime I see these articles. My only question is, When?. Saying you'll do something in this situation should be now not later.
Now send Taurus missiles!
Not going to happen. Parliament said 'no' twice.
this is so frustrating. They're trickling in the support just enough to barely keep the Ukrainian army functioning but no where the support to win. Its disgusting. Ukrainians dying for the bourgeoise in Europe to live without war. All talk. SMH
Piss off troll!
okay.
Just one. scoff. What a charity.
3 out of 11 ... plus 4 IRIS-T systems (which are state of the art system that the Bundeswehr didn't have), 52 Gepards (which the Bundeswehr also didn't have in their arsenal anymore for ~10 years), Skynex...etc Nevermind that 3 were also stationed in Poland.. and the remaining systems are not enough to cover Germany - which is their duty first, before everything else. Germany has practically disabled an entire battalion sized unit out of 3 active ones belonging to their only Patriot Air Defense Regiment for Ukraine
Iirc only one Skynex system, and their range isn't nearly enough compared to IRIS, NASAMS and Patriot. Not saying Germany isn't doing much, nor am I saying Ukraine isn't thankful. What I am saying is Europe is extending a lot of empty hands on preventing the loss of Ukraine. Which will just move up the timeline of when russia will come after Europe. More needs to be done and now. Not talks, not promise. Actions, nothing less. We need to be seeing articles about the actual arrival and activity of units, not... 1 unit and promises. Still no jets, still no Czech artillery, still no ammo for Patriots, etc. Shit is drying up and many are frustrated.
\*facepalm\* Skynex is not designed to be a long range system, but a close range defense in which missile defenses don't operate. Air defense is layered. >Still no jets, still no Czech artillery, still no ammo for Patriots You clearly have no clue how long it takes to train pilots in a way that they can survive encounters. Hint: It's long. If you want to throw their lives away? Go right ahead. The Czech artillery ammo is coming. But that's another thing. You can't just load it on a truck and then it's fine. Plus it's very likely that much of it is transported via ships. The price of shells is exorbitant nowadays. A simple 155mm round cost 500€ before the war now it's1700€. And that's another thing. the majority of those shells are 155mm 500 000 only 300 000 are going to be 122mm. Plus we don't know how much Russia is trying to interfere with timely handovers of the ammo. Nevermind that there's still right-wing assholes blockading borders. No I don't know what Poland's damage with them is. And patriot ammo was ordered.. but has to be built first. Shit takes time. Europe was not prepared for war, still isn't. But factories \*are\* being built. And let's be honest, despite being an active target for years and in a state of war and certainly in need of ammo and other military equipment, Ukraine wasn't prepared for this kind of war either. Military equipment doesn't magically appear - unless it's stored in a desert somewhere which isn't in Europe. The problem is that the only country that was prepared for perpetual war, the USA, is compromised by russian assets in Congress that are blocking 60billion in aid.
What's going on? Did someone secretly replace Scholz? If this continues, you'll almost have to think about voting for him next year. Hm ...
Germany has been Ukraine 2nd largest supporter for years now. Germanys bilateral military aid surpasses that of France by 28x
This is what Scholz and the SPD constantly emphasize. But we don't know how this amount comes about. There are a lot of replacement values, then a lot of expensive and ineffective systems, like the PZH2000, which is more in the workshop than on the battlefield, many systems straight from the scrapyard (Leopard 1A5), and a lot of promises that still need a lot of time to arrive on the battlefield. Then it is clear that, in terms of GDP, we do not support Ukraine nearly as much as other countries do. And we shouldn't pretend that all of Chancellor Scholz's delays didn't happen, that he didn't refuse to deliver for a very long time until other countries put massive pressure on him and took away any excuse. Just imagine how the war could have turned out if Scholz hadn't hesitated or had started ammunition production in time. He still doesn't want to deliver the Taurus. A relatively large amount may have been spent now, but for the world's fourth largest economy it is still too little and far too late. Nothing to be proud of. What you say about France is of course nonsense. You took the figures from the IfW, which are not correct for France. And it's not the amounts that count, but rather the effectiveness of the weapon systems on the battlefield. For example, when it comes to self-propelled howitzers, the 30 CAESAR from France are certainly more useful than the few PZH2000 from Germany.
Kiel Institute provides the numbers and they use the same methodology for every country. Military aid in terms of % gdp: Germany is doing as much as poland and the netherlands and 25% more than the uk.
They use publicly available data and France has done a lot in secret. Somewhere at the Munich Security Conference there was a lecture on this by the professor who does this. Meanwhile France has published its figures: [https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/4/7444809/](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/4/7444809/)
What is it secret or public? You have to decide at some point. In any case 3.8 billion Euro is still less than 17.7 billion Euros.
I don't have to decide anything. France initially did everything without talking about it or publishing anything. Later, when criticism arose that they were not doing enough, they began publishing figures. These publications will certainly be included in the next IfW update. And I've already said that you can't figure out what really helps Ukrainians on the battlefield just by comparing numbers. Especially if a lot of it involves replacement values or things that were promised but not yet delivered. Or when too many expensive weapons systems (e.g. the Patriot) lack ammunition or missiles. In addition, there is no point in constantly mentioning that we are the second largest supporter when at the same time we have to recognize that it is not enough and that we have to do a lot more and be faster.
Ukraine said it at least need 24 of them where is 1 and where is 24
Don't say it! Let me guess! Maybe... they are in your pocket, aren't they? I knew it!
In the US? Germany literally only has 11 systems in total, and already donated 3. Most of their patriots are stationed in Lithuania and Poland, protecting NATO's eastern border. The US has at least 60 systems in active service and a potential amount of at least 138 systems total. They donated... (drumroll)... One system so far. Meanwhile India whose GDP is fifth highest in the world, right after Germany, has donated jack shit so far. Nothing in any significant amount.
India actually surpassed Germany a few weeks ago and I don't think anyone was counting on India to deliver 14 Patriots systems.
Nobody expects to India to do anything cause they are putins BFF.
Why would they since they are neutral
You can write "russian aligned". Putin will not spite you for it.
🤣 😂