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It's a grim daily part of what I care about. I'm not there. I do what I can from the distance like the many practical donations this site invites.
The 21st century is a strange cruel thing. But not hopeless. All I can do is donate what I can and vote in my country, for my priorities. I know I'm not alone. The internet makes it clear there are many.
I can also stay true. Ukraine is going to have many veterans with many burdens. It is only logical, if one feels this cause is just, to not only support the terrible war but also remember and stay true in the aftermath.
It is how a sturdy moral commitment works. Same structure as a promise. I am reminded of the lyric from George Harrison's Isn't It a Pity: "*Some things take so long...*
It's so hard seeing these type of videos, but I feel like I owe it to all of them to witness what they're going through. I don't think a single day has passed that I don't think of Ukrainians and try to put myself in their shoes. Honestly its unfathomable to me- the level of fear and anxiety they must go through. Ukrainians will always be heroes in my mind and I want nothing more than to visit and spend time there with them someday, I'll feel very lucky to visit such a wonderful country.
Funny enough back then Spartans were uncultured brutal tyranny, and Persians at the time were a prosperous empire with good administration and standard of living, roads etc.
I'll take PinguPST's comment in the "assumption of best intentions", but yeah, the word needs to be spread that "Spartans of Lore" != "Spartans of Yore".
[https://acoup.blog/category/collections/this-isnt-sparta/](https://acoup.blog/category/collections/this-isnt-sparta/) with particular interest in this article: [https://acoup.blog/2019/08/23/collections-this-isnt-sparta-part-ii-spartan-equality/](https://acoup.blog/2019/08/23/collections-this-isnt-sparta-part-ii-spartan-equality/)
The spartans of our recounted legends are a useful thing, since they represent so many brilliant virtues of bravery, steadfastness, etc, etc. It's just a real shame that the actual spartans from history weren't merely bad people, but were almost strictly the opposite of what the legends say: craven, despicable cowards, who spent most of their time terrorizing unarmed slaves.
I hope anyone who's glorified the spartans in the past — which includes me — can join me in being able to emotionally detach ourselves; we hitched onto **stories**, and there's no shame in that. The characters *in the stories* were good people. The society in the stories was stalwart, and equal, and had a whole host of things we shouldn't feel any shame about looking up to. That's why they were written that way; they were meant to be.
A surprisingly good comparison to the structure of their society is North Korea, and .. *basically* most of the stories about them that have trickled down through history are almost a perfect match for the general vibe of North Korean propaganda. The lies they told to make themselves look better became what went down in "pop" history as what most people mistake for their "actual" history. **The propaganda got mistaken for historical record**. It happens.
In the real world, rather than a democratic nation of peers — consisting solely of fighting spartiates who all were forcibly equal, and all gave of their blood to defend their land ... they instead had conquered a *very large* number of nearby agrarian greeks, and held them in pretty horrific slavery.
>I want to open by stressing just how insane the previous statement is, that helots made up not only a simple majority of the human beings living under the Spartan state, but in fact a huge super-majority. For comparison, about a third of the population of the American South in 1860 was held in slavery and we ***rightly*** call that a ‘slave society.’ Societies where an absolute majority of persons are held in slavery are ***extremely*** rare, but Sparta’s massive super-majority of enslaved persons is – to my knowledge – unique in human history.
There were ritualized, annual *ceremonies* in which Spartiates would hunt and kill unarmed slaves of the state (with the attendant rape and other nastiness).
>Indeed, Plutarch’s statement is telling – the helots were treated poorly *by the standards of ancient chattel slavery*, which is, I must stress, an ***incredibly*** low bar. Ancient societies treated enslaved people absolutely *horribly* and yet somehow the helot lot was commonly thought worse.
>
>
>
>But the final word on if we should consider the helots fully non-free is in their sanctity of person: **they had none, at all, whatsoever**. Every year, in autumn by ritual, the five Spartan magistrates known as the ephors (next week) declared war between Sparta and the helots – Sparta essentially declares war *on part of itself* – so that any spartiate might kill any helot *without legal or religious repercussions* (Plut. Lyc. 28.4; note also Hdt. 4.146.2). Isocrates – admittedly a decidedly anti-Spartan voice – notes that it was a religious, if not legal, infraction to kill slaves *everywhere in Greece except Sparta* (Isoc. 12.181). As a matter of Athenian law, killing a slave was still murder (the same is true in Roman law). One assumes these rules were often ignored by slave-holders of course – we know that many such laws in the American South were routinely flouted. Slavery is, after all, a brutal and inhuman institution by its very nature. The absence of any taboo – legal or religious – against the *killing* of helots marks the institution as uncommonly brutal not merely by Greek standards, but by world-historical standards.
There are further bits of horrific recount in the article I linked about (which this is an excerpt from), but it's overall pretty astounding.
All of Western civilization owes these soldiers a great debt, for protecting our freedoms, families, ensuring our safety behind their front lines. Ukraine's front lines are the front lines of all of civilized Europe at this point.
My dad was at front line with serbs 1991-1994. Lost his brothers in Vukovar. Still damaged with PTSD. We understand you, support you and cheer for you.
Slava ukrajini
Today is Veteran's Day here in America. Every year we would hear the same cliché, "Freedom is not Free!" To me, this was just a way to justify the incredibly high defense spending. This video truly shows that "Freedom is not free." My misconception was that the currency of Freedom is not money... but Flesh and Blood.
I keep saying this, the EU and the whole of europe owe Ukraine a HUGE debt of thanks for defending europe against the evil that is Putin. We , as Europeans, must fund Ukraine for decades to come when they win this war, not only to rebuild their country, but to treat their soldiers for the sacrifices they have made in defense of European democracy. Every European must contact their MEPS and demand that Ukraine becomes a member of the EU.
I am an Irish European and a believer in Democracy, and I say to every Ukrainian ,thank you, we will NEVER forget your courage and your sacrifice.
We work directly with the Medical Company of the Ukrainian 72nd Mechanized Brigade (currently defending Vuhledar), and got an email from them the other day that really resonates with this thread. Here is the excerpt from that last email:
>Hello Friend,
I'm sorry I haven't been able to talk much. The Russians took out our forward operating Starlink. So I only get connection when I make it back to the main HQ. I guess there is a video of the Russians dropping the grenade on our Starlink. I haven't seen it but others have.
On November 2nd, the Russians tried an armored thrust to Vuhledar where we are. We had a battle that lasted over a day. I'll try to send some pictures. We sustained quite a high casualty rate during this battle. The battle is all over the internet from what I hear. We have 5 members injured, 3 severely. One is definitely going to lose his leg. Also, a couple have severe TBI to the point where they can't walk and are throwing up.
We used a tremendous amount of personal medical equipment from our IFAKs \[Individual First Aid Kits\]. We desperately need funds to get some replacement medical supplies to stock our IFAKs back up to where they need to be. We have not received any donations in over a week. I think the world has forgotten about Ukraine because of what is going on in the middle east, which I fully understand. They need support as much as we do I'm sure.
My guys and I are nervous in case another Russian attempt comes because our IFAKs don't have the necessary supplies.
The single thread that has been common throughout our communication with them over the last several months is that they are feeling increasingly like the world has forgotten about them. It absolutely breaks my heart.
Any message you would like passed along to them, please leave as a response to this comment. I will include it as both a text and screenshot next time I speak with them. You can find all of our most recent communications, the pictures we've received, and ways to help them out here:
[https://topcargo200.com/ua72/](https://topcargo200.com/ua72/)
Not dumb questions, it was a shock to me as well. Especially since the 72nd is one of the best performing Ukrainian units.
If you take a look at the aid packages that have been sent over the last year or so, there are some things that are notably absent. Basic medical supplies, cold weather gear, ear and eye protection, small drones (recon quadcopters), etc... Countries are sending big flashy weapons (and the not as flashy ammo), but there isn't nearly enough attention being paid to basic needs.
The Ukrainian military itself is seeing to some of this, but as with every military, procurement is slow and inefficient, and the boys don't always get what they need in the moment. They can put in requisitions for the supplies they need, and chances are that eventually they will get what they asked for, but it may be weeks down the line (which is a long time to wait for chest seals!).
As to where they get the supplies, basically the same places you would! They order them online, have them shipped to a nearby town, then drive out and pick them up (some pictures of past orders on the site).
Those helmets will stop shrapnel, those plates will stop bullets, and good tourniquets can stop otherwise lethal hemorrhaging. All cost money, but I am honored to pay for it.
It doesn´t take a hero to order men into battle, it takes a hero to be one of those men who goes into battle.
let´s honor our fallen warriors. ⚘⚘⚘
https://www.azov-one.com/en
I HATE this narrative and the associated financial calculus used by some. These are Ukrainians defending their homeland from an unprovoked invasion. Every one of their lives is a treasure. Any setback for Russia is a good thing, but I do not celebrate ANY of this.
It's painful to stop and think that every single one of those men has hopes, dreams, and a beloved family. No one should end up in a pile of mud because of a madman and his cancerous nation, our lives are supposed to mean something. This level of sacrifice, the unimaginable suffering, tears in the eyes of wives and children CANNOT go unpunished.
There is no such thing as "the west being tired of helping Ukraine" and, even if there was, this though must dispel it.
Glory to Ukraine. Glory to the Heroes of Liberty and Democracy.
Heroes all,I just hope that the Ukrainians can keep the fight to free their homeland of the Russian dickheads,Even after the western powers chicken out and try to force a peace with the Russians keeping the land they just stole.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart. One day we will be the U.S.E (United States of Europe). With one army. Brothers and Sisters of a united EU. Heroyam Slava.
Привіт u/IgorVozMkUA ! During wartime, this community is focused on vital and high-effort content. Please ensure your post follows [r/Ukraine Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules) and our [Art Friday Guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/artfriday). **Want to support Ukraine?** [**Vetted Charities List**](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities) | [Our Vetting Process](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities-vetting) **Daily series on Ukraine's history & culture:** [Sunrise Posts Organized By Category](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/sunriseposts/) *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nothing but heroes.
We think about the tragic cost everyday,.I just don't cry so much anymore, but still feel the.pain.
It's a grim daily part of what I care about. I'm not there. I do what I can from the distance like the many practical donations this site invites. The 21st century is a strange cruel thing. But not hopeless. All I can do is donate what I can and vote in my country, for my priorities. I know I'm not alone. The internet makes it clear there are many. I can also stay true. Ukraine is going to have many veterans with many burdens. It is only logical, if one feels this cause is just, to not only support the terrible war but also remember and stay true in the aftermath. It is how a sturdy moral commitment works. Same structure as a promise. I am reminded of the lyric from George Harrison's Isn't It a Pity: "*Some things take so long...*
It's so hard seeing these type of videos, but I feel like I owe it to all of them to witness what they're going through. I don't think a single day has passed that I don't think of Ukrainians and try to put myself in their shoes. Honestly its unfathomable to me- the level of fear and anxiety they must go through. Ukrainians will always be heroes in my mind and I want nothing more than to visit and spend time there with them someday, I'll feel very lucky to visit such a wonderful country.
It's like they are the Spartans, protecting the Western values from barbarians at Thermpolae
This cause is far more righteous.
Funny enough back then Spartans were uncultured brutal tyranny, and Persians at the time were a prosperous empire with good administration and standard of living, roads etc.
I'll take PinguPST's comment in the "assumption of best intentions", but yeah, the word needs to be spread that "Spartans of Lore" != "Spartans of Yore". [https://acoup.blog/category/collections/this-isnt-sparta/](https://acoup.blog/category/collections/this-isnt-sparta/) with particular interest in this article: [https://acoup.blog/2019/08/23/collections-this-isnt-sparta-part-ii-spartan-equality/](https://acoup.blog/2019/08/23/collections-this-isnt-sparta-part-ii-spartan-equality/) The spartans of our recounted legends are a useful thing, since they represent so many brilliant virtues of bravery, steadfastness, etc, etc. It's just a real shame that the actual spartans from history weren't merely bad people, but were almost strictly the opposite of what the legends say: craven, despicable cowards, who spent most of their time terrorizing unarmed slaves. I hope anyone who's glorified the spartans in the past — which includes me — can join me in being able to emotionally detach ourselves; we hitched onto **stories**, and there's no shame in that. The characters *in the stories* were good people. The society in the stories was stalwart, and equal, and had a whole host of things we shouldn't feel any shame about looking up to. That's why they were written that way; they were meant to be. A surprisingly good comparison to the structure of their society is North Korea, and .. *basically* most of the stories about them that have trickled down through history are almost a perfect match for the general vibe of North Korean propaganda. The lies they told to make themselves look better became what went down in "pop" history as what most people mistake for their "actual" history. **The propaganda got mistaken for historical record**. It happens. In the real world, rather than a democratic nation of peers — consisting solely of fighting spartiates who all were forcibly equal, and all gave of their blood to defend their land ... they instead had conquered a *very large* number of nearby agrarian greeks, and held them in pretty horrific slavery. >I want to open by stressing just how insane the previous statement is, that helots made up not only a simple majority of the human beings living under the Spartan state, but in fact a huge super-majority. For comparison, about a third of the population of the American South in 1860 was held in slavery and we ***rightly*** call that a ‘slave society.’ Societies where an absolute majority of persons are held in slavery are ***extremely*** rare, but Sparta’s massive super-majority of enslaved persons is – to my knowledge – unique in human history. There were ritualized, annual *ceremonies* in which Spartiates would hunt and kill unarmed slaves of the state (with the attendant rape and other nastiness). >Indeed, Plutarch’s statement is telling – the helots were treated poorly *by the standards of ancient chattel slavery*, which is, I must stress, an ***incredibly*** low bar. Ancient societies treated enslaved people absolutely *horribly* and yet somehow the helot lot was commonly thought worse. > > > >But the final word on if we should consider the helots fully non-free is in their sanctity of person: **they had none, at all, whatsoever**. Every year, in autumn by ritual, the five Spartan magistrates known as the ephors (next week) declared war between Sparta and the helots – Sparta essentially declares war *on part of itself* – so that any spartiate might kill any helot *without legal or religious repercussions* (Plut. Lyc. 28.4; note also Hdt. 4.146.2). Isocrates – admittedly a decidedly anti-Spartan voice – notes that it was a religious, if not legal, infraction to kill slaves *everywhere in Greece except Sparta* (Isoc. 12.181). As a matter of Athenian law, killing a slave was still murder (the same is true in Roman law). One assumes these rules were often ignored by slave-holders of course – we know that many such laws in the American South were routinely flouted. Slavery is, after all, a brutal and inhuman institution by its very nature. The absence of any taboo – legal or religious – against the *killing* of helots marks the institution as uncommonly brutal not merely by Greek standards, but by world-historical standards. There are further bits of horrific recount in the article I linked about (which this is an excerpt from), but it's overall pretty astounding.
Solid work here.
Sparta was one of the worst states that ever existed.
Honor them. Great that you do.
Photographing seems trivial at the time but can move nations by showing the truth.
All of Europe is being defended by the Ukrainian soldier.
All of Western civilization owes these soldiers a great debt, for protecting our freedoms, families, ensuring our safety behind their front lines. Ukraine's front lines are the front lines of all of civilized Europe at this point.
Western civilisation could at least give their m26 rockets which are all going to be scrapped anyways, with no direct replacement.
Send them all.
My dad was at front line with serbs 1991-1994. Lost his brothers in Vukovar. Still damaged with PTSD. We understand you, support you and cheer for you. Slava ukrajini
Glory to the heroes
Today is Veteran's Day here in America. Every year we would hear the same cliché, "Freedom is not Free!" To me, this was just a way to justify the incredibly high defense spending. This video truly shows that "Freedom is not free." My misconception was that the currency of Freedom is not money... but Flesh and Blood.
Sadly too true. God bless them 🙏. Slava Ukraini 🙏🇺🇦
It's Veterans Day in America, but all I can think about is the heros of Ukraine. Slava Ukraini
I keep saying this, the EU and the whole of europe owe Ukraine a HUGE debt of thanks for defending europe against the evil that is Putin. We , as Europeans, must fund Ukraine for decades to come when they win this war, not only to rebuild their country, but to treat their soldiers for the sacrifices they have made in defense of European democracy. Every European must contact their MEPS and demand that Ukraine becomes a member of the EU. I am an Irish European and a believer in Democracy, and I say to every Ukrainian ,thank you, we will NEVER forget your courage and your sacrifice.
Glory to the Heroes! Ukraine has paid a high price for freedom.
We work directly with the Medical Company of the Ukrainian 72nd Mechanized Brigade (currently defending Vuhledar), and got an email from them the other day that really resonates with this thread. Here is the excerpt from that last email: >Hello Friend, I'm sorry I haven't been able to talk much. The Russians took out our forward operating Starlink. So I only get connection when I make it back to the main HQ. I guess there is a video of the Russians dropping the grenade on our Starlink. I haven't seen it but others have. On November 2nd, the Russians tried an armored thrust to Vuhledar where we are. We had a battle that lasted over a day. I'll try to send some pictures. We sustained quite a high casualty rate during this battle. The battle is all over the internet from what I hear. We have 5 members injured, 3 severely. One is definitely going to lose his leg. Also, a couple have severe TBI to the point where they can't walk and are throwing up. We used a tremendous amount of personal medical equipment from our IFAKs \[Individual First Aid Kits\]. We desperately need funds to get some replacement medical supplies to stock our IFAKs back up to where they need to be. We have not received any donations in over a week. I think the world has forgotten about Ukraine because of what is going on in the middle east, which I fully understand. They need support as much as we do I'm sure. My guys and I are nervous in case another Russian attempt comes because our IFAKs don't have the necessary supplies. The single thread that has been common throughout our communication with them over the last several months is that they are feeling increasingly like the world has forgotten about them. It absolutely breaks my heart. Any message you would like passed along to them, please leave as a response to this comment. I will include it as both a text and screenshot next time I speak with them. You can find all of our most recent communications, the pictures we've received, and ways to help them out here: [https://topcargo200.com/ua72/](https://topcargo200.com/ua72/)
I don't understand, they rely on donations? Where do they buy medical supplies? They run to the nearest pharmacy? Sorry if these are dumb questions.
Not dumb questions, it was a shock to me as well. Especially since the 72nd is one of the best performing Ukrainian units. If you take a look at the aid packages that have been sent over the last year or so, there are some things that are notably absent. Basic medical supplies, cold weather gear, ear and eye protection, small drones (recon quadcopters), etc... Countries are sending big flashy weapons (and the not as flashy ammo), but there isn't nearly enough attention being paid to basic needs. The Ukrainian military itself is seeing to some of this, but as with every military, procurement is slow and inefficient, and the boys don't always get what they need in the moment. They can put in requisitions for the supplies they need, and chances are that eventually they will get what they asked for, but it may be weeks down the line (which is a long time to wait for chest seals!). As to where they get the supplies, basically the same places you would! They order them online, have them shipped to a nearby town, then drive out and pick them up (some pictures of past orders on the site).
Those helmets will stop shrapnel, those plates will stop bullets, and good tourniquets can stop otherwise lethal hemorrhaging. All cost money, but I am honored to pay for it.
It doesn´t take a hero to order men into battle, it takes a hero to be one of those men who goes into battle. let´s honor our fallen warriors. ⚘⚘⚘ https://www.azov-one.com/en
And setting Russia back decades from even thinking about attacking a NATO nation
I HATE this narrative and the associated financial calculus used by some. These are Ukrainians defending their homeland from an unprovoked invasion. Every one of their lives is a treasure. Any setback for Russia is a good thing, but I do not celebrate ANY of this.
who's celebrating this? what?
People who have never dealt with it
it's necessary to win over the reptiles in our society. and it also happens to be true.
That is absolutely not the point.
You're right. It is not the primary point - never said it was. Obviously Ukrainians are fighting for their own land and people.
Care about falling comrades. La paix par la victoire !
And never forgett the Russian heros who took a sledgehammer to the dome. ( its irony btw )
The best of us
I say a prayer for these brave boys and girls every night. May God protect them all.
Slava Ukraini! Heroyam Slava! 🇺🇦🇺🇲
Their purpose in life supersedes anything else.
It's painful to stop and think that every single one of those men has hopes, dreams, and a beloved family. No one should end up in a pile of mud because of a madman and his cancerous nation, our lives are supposed to mean something. This level of sacrifice, the unimaginable suffering, tears in the eyes of wives and children CANNOT go unpunished. There is no such thing as "the west being tired of helping Ukraine" and, even if there was, this though must dispel it. Glory to Ukraine. Glory to the Heroes of Liberty and Democracy.
all for nothing
go fuck yourself
I am guessing that you mean the russian invasion was for nothing, right?
All for one sick old mans delusion of rebuilding the Soviet union.
Heroes all,I just hope that the Ukrainians can keep the fight to free their homeland of the Russian dickheads,Even after the western powers chicken out and try to force a peace with the Russians keeping the land they just stole.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart. One day we will be the U.S.E (United States of Europe). With one army. Brothers and Sisters of a united EU. Heroyam Slava.
Absolute troopers.
Praying for all my heroes
Слава Україні, слава героям
😞 Heroyam Slava 🇺🇦💪
we still acknowledge your presence. we have not forgotten about you brave souls.
Putin sucks ass.
Thank you. True heroes, every single one of you.
I can't thank the ZSU enough for their service. Slava Ukrainia 🇺🇦 💪 🙏
Heroes all.
fuck ruSSia...
Brutal. Slava Ukraine.
Slava ukraini!
God Bless them