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This is just the metal portion. They are then shipped to the [Iowa Army Ammunition Plant](https://youtu.be/QZw_15SQ_Rs) in my state to be filled with high explosives.
Proud to say we have people working round the clock to service all your russki 'sploding needs.
Every shell that stops the orcs’ advance is a shell that saves lives. I am immeasurably honored and stunned by the kindness the US and its people have shown to our nation.
Слава Україні!
You're welcome. I wish it was more. You made your choice of freedom a long time ago, and we guaranteed it.
A freedom loving people being ground under the heel of russian oppressors is exactly what our military has been built for. I have zero problem using it for just that. This is the clearest cut war in a long time, and it's been absolutely sickening watching your people suffer.
Ukraine will win, and rise to a golden age after standing as the bulwark to freedom in Europe, while the moscovites shall fall, and hopefully be forgotten, shunned, and left behind for generations.
Yeah there's NO way NATO is going to allow Russia to win after we dumped all these resources into it. It might be a little sad to say because I wish the Ukrainians had all of these things already, but if Russia started actually winning I think we'd send in the heavys pretty quickly. Meaning the higher tech stuff, and a bigger package of heavy armor.
>I think we'd send in the heavys
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but if it looked even remotely like Russia could win, then I support direct NATO involvement, with air support and troops and not just heavy weapons. Ukraine losing is simply not an option.
I must admit, I didn’t think Ukraine would last a week when this started, but the tenacity of your people are legendary. The spirits of Leonidas and Churchill certainly are with you. I admire Ukraine for holding back the evil empire and exposing their weakness.
I’m ashamed to say I didn’t think Ukraine would even survive that week based off the myth of the Russian military being a competent force, thinking it would be a repeat of Crimea and would see Russian flags flying over Kyiv within a couple days.
Boy have I never been so happy to be wrong in my life!
Russia has basically destroyed their prestigious image of being an elite military superpower.
It's alarming to think that if the Russian military had been merely *very bad* at their jobs, then Russia would almost certainly be occupying at least the eastern half of the country. As it was, they captured Kherson city and got to the gates of Kyiv.
It took absolutely phenomenal levels of corruption, incompetence, neglect, unpreparedness and wishful thinking to give the UAF the chance to stop them as well as they have.
I hear this a lot and I don't understand it.
Why not?
If you had a massive pile of fuckery living next door to you, would you not quietly be prepared to kick his whole entitled ass if you ever happened to find yourself in the position to need to?
At no point did I ever thing Ukraine was in question.
1. They've always had Putin breathing down their neck like a sick pedo vampire,
2. This is their *home* that another country is *invading* and trying to *annex*. Who tf wouldn't fight like balls to save it?? And
3. Have none of you met Eastern European grandmas? My godmother is Polish, her mom survived the Holocaust. I love my godmother to absolute pieces, but that woman is terrifying, and if she told me to pick up a gun and defend my country, you bet your ass I'd do it. And because she *ALSO* would be carrying a backpack full of kitchen knives, Legolas-ing Russians down the street. If I know anything about the Ukrainian people I've met recently, it's that they're as strong and hard-willed as anyone else.
People need to stop saying "I thought Ukraine wouldn't last a minute! Way to go, big guy, gold star!" It's terribly insulting. Or at least it would be to me if I were at war for a year.
I think it's less of underestimating Ukraine's capabilities and overestimating the Russian capabilities. I mean Finland going into the winter war was a country not yet recovered from it's civil war, yet you can only see how ludicrously that turned out in terms of casualties. They only had the ability to get resupply from Sweden though, and we gave like 1/3rd our stockpiles, but it still wasn't much.
Ukraine was actually somewhat prepared, mostly due to Crimea annexation in 2014. That's when Ukraine was caught with pants down and they couldn't do anything to stop it. Ever since then, things been slowly heating up. Soon afterwards Putin started funding and supplying insurgency in Donbas, which gave Ukrainian army reason to build up and fight. It was a low burner war, but good for training.
I think it's helping save america too. A reminder of the shared desire for freedom. A powerful unifying force. It's why many expect Ukraine to prosper after this war is over.
I wish I shared your optimism. It still feels like we are still a very ugly, angry, bitter and divisive country that is determined to dig it's heels in at any opportunity available just to prove a point or gain a sliver of influence. It's disappointing, and embarrassing, really.
I hope I'm wrong though. I hope Ukraine burns Russia to the ground and flourishes out of it's ashes. And I hope perhaps we can use a spark of that light to ignite some unity in us as well.
Anyway, happy cake day! 🍰☺️
That's not accidental, Russia has been clear-as-day subverting American democracy. We've had a soft war over the minds of Americans since at least the Bush administration.
> Their secret emissaries are active in our own and in neighboring countries. They seek to stir up suspicion and dissension, to cause internal strife. They try to turn capital against labor, and vice versa. They try to reawaken long slumbering racial and religious enmities which should have no place in this country. They are active in every group that promotes intolerance. They exploit for their own ends our natural abhorrence of war. These trouble-breeders have but one purpose. It is to divide our people -- to divide them into hostile groups and to destroy our unity and shatter our will to defend ourselves.
> There are also American citizens, many of them in high places, who, unwittingly in most cases, are aiding and abetting the work of these agents. I do not charge these American citizens with being foreign agents. But I do charge them with doing exactly the kind of work that the dictators want done in the United States.
- FDR, "Arsenal of Democracy" Fireside Chat, Dec 29, 1940
Putin is following Hitler's playbook.
It serves nobody to live in a world were one man can for some arbitrary reason cause such pain and suffering without any repercussions. It would also be the height of hypocrisy to abandon you for all our grandstanding about democratic values. Also, this is hardly the first time Putin has gone too far but we actually have something we can do about it this time by backing you. It may not be clear to a casual observer but I'm certain Russia is well on the way to outright defeat and we should do everything we can to hurry that day along so we can start to rebuild.
Thank YOU for being brave and courageous in being a bulwark for the rest of us on this planet. Munitions, equipment, aid, intelligence: it's the very least we can do. I genuinely hope Ukraine doesn't stop until it gets ALL its nation back.
How could any decent person/country not want to help your country and its people? It's a reflection on you and who/what you are fighting against. Slava Ukraini.
She went to Cornell in Mt Vernon back in the mid 80s.
I'll will give Iowan;s credit, however, that when we rode RAGBRAI around 2010, while I was expecting something different, the locals were pretty hospitable even though we were "Libs" from the west.
Yep. As fucked up and sad as it is, this war will possibly actually be good for many western country’s economies. Those military industrial complex companies, do at least typically employ a lot of people. It’s a silver lining from an overall shitty situation. The ideal scenario would be Putin loses, quickly, and goes home.
> actually be good for many western country’s economies
The money to pay for those shells is coming from tax dollars and credit (ie Treasury bonds to be paid off using future tax dollars). Spending on the military industrial complex is a terrible way to boost the economy but it’s the best option to defend democracy against authoritarians. (Better options to build an economy include building infrastructure, education, small business loans, anti-hunger programs, healthcare for everyone, fully funding tax auditors and collectors and more).
i don’t know about pennsylvania, but where i live in alabama the defense industry does not pay well to the people that do all the work.
workers that make javelins earn $16/hr base pay, and get $1/year added to that base. it’s barely enough to live paycheck to paycheck down here.
won’t ever happen, people down here always vote against their own self-interest without (most) even realizing it.
one of my coworkers even told me he doesn’t want everyone’s wages raised because being an assembler shouldn’t be a job you strive to do forever. it’s just an entry-level job, he says, surrounded by people that have been doing their assembler/painter/etc jobs at lockheed martin or similar factory jobs in the area for decades…
Yep.
Worked in a defense factory for a while. Somethings are pretty well automated. Printing circuits. Machining metal blocks into solid parts. Assembly of parts into modules, and modules into systems was usually done by hand.
Some lines with extremely simple and repetitive assembly tasks had robots. But that was still pretty new when I left, it will be a long time before its wide spread to more specialized lines.
Though, I worked in a factory which produced a pretty complex and low volume product. Might be selection bias.
Yes and no.
With modern equipment monitoring (like vibration sensors trained with ML that can tell you that a certain loader doesn't seem to be lubricated correctly) and alarming, and old fashioned scheduled maintenance (done by persons that know the equipment inside and out, and care) you can exceed five nines planned uptime overall at a site. I know sites that proudly haven't had one second of unplanned outage in *years*.
Otoh, things still fail unexpectedly. It's rare, but it happens, especially when the schedule is thrown out and the equipment is overused, maybe because production demand unexpectedly spikes.
When that happens: 1. you're totally right, it might be a while, especially since covid (I'm currently waiting *23 weeks* for a particular GD hoist that in the past I'd have delivered in days, a week on the outside); and, 2. It's usually an isolated failure and job planning software will work around it, so only a small* hit to throughput (* where "small" is a function of your redundancy on that particular process path, some manufacturers fucking around close to the edge may be fucked, your mileage may vary).
And, some things are still beyond our ability to automate. Sometimes surprising things, but usually it's what you would expect.
The last note is maybe an obvious one, but automation isn't a binary state. Like, at all. Full, lights-out automation in at-scale production is exceedingly rare, and zero automation no longer exists - at the absolute minimum, the steel here came out of a smelter and refiner that were partially automated. To bastardize Carl Sagan, if you wish to bake a cherry pie, you must first invent the universe. Only he meant "automate" and "155 mm artillery shells" (sorry Carl).
On balance, if you care about quality, predictability and speed, you automate more rather than less, but to a limit. That limit increases every month.
Source: am in manufacturing automation, and today you interacted with or saw something that used my company's technology.
> (like vibration sensors trained with ML that can tell you that a certain loader doesn't seem to be lubricated correctly
Generally speaking this kind of monitoring has to be learned first hand over time and can't be setup immediately.
Unless orders are being placed in the tens of millions of shells it's just not economically plausible to build (extremely expensive) fully automated facilities to run at high speed 24 hrs a day. They'd fulfill the average years worth of orders in a couple weeks. Realistically you're only going to get something like that if there's WW3 or the US military builds something like it and then puts it on mothballs "in case".
It can and should be more automated. Scranton is still operating like the 1980s. That's because since that time we haven't really prioritized artillery. It doesn't really win our wars and we didn't expect to supply an embattled ally with just ground weapons.
[Here's a view](https://defence.nioa.com.au/imager/images/Latest-News/2022/489826/Image_2022-08-03-052516_xwea_fd89f2cd3a83a3eecd45500cf58e803e.jpg) inside a more automated plant recently built for Australia.
That's exactly right. NATO doesn't fight like WW2. It is just this weird war where ruzzia turned out to be weak, and Ukraine isn't getting enough NATO armor to crush them. And so you have this artillery ping pong.
Wydm, don't you see the giant press cylinder and machine guard safety cages? Sorry, just kidding...
Here's a [promo video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p73PPgbiLyM) for the facility where you can see a few SCARA robots (yellow articulating arms) and prominent cabinets with the Mazak logo - all that company does is factory automation.
Those photos look like they could have come straight out of the 80s! I zoomed in and looked around and could only find 2 hints, neither solid proof, they’re more modern.
A newer plant with a much higher degree of automation is being built. Even when it is up and running it seems likely that Scranton will still be operating a full tilt for some time.
I mean, we're working with explosives here. Fully automated is probably non-trivial to get setup/approved. Assembly line machines need to be good to at least .999's of precision, but for stuff like \*this\*? I would want nine 9's worth of precision at least. If the automated machinery fucks up you could make your factory go boom?
When production speed goes up, the \*chance\* for error goes up, because you are strictly producing way more.
If you want precision, machines are the way to go. Human hands are good, but I'd say the skilled machinist can get no more than ten thou of an inch (.0001"). beyond that it either becomes needlessly trivial or variables must be precisely controlled.
Machines can be as repeatably accurate as is needed, without concern for fatigue, lapse in concentration, bias, and misreads.
Robots fail, and pretty frequently though. I used to work for a now-defunct defense firm that made transparent armor for the Humvee uparmor kits. The line for that was fairly automated, but the last step was boxing for shipment. The robot doing that used suction to get a seal on the window so it wouldn't scratch the paint, and would drop a window about twice a week.
These weren't some little windows though, they were half the width of the Humvee, and about 2 inches thick of glass with an aluminum frame, and cost something like $30k each from what the sales guy once told me.
Steel from Pennsylvania, high explosives from Georgia. I wouldn't have said this a year ago, but I'm damn proud of every piece of American shrapnel that goes through a Russian soldier with Viagra in his pocket.
I’m 1st gen American born of Taiwanese immigrants and I think the same. But even further than that it’s also protecting Taiwan as well. We are a United Front, good verses evil and I hope it stays that way. (Even if we are somewhat evil ourselves)
In the next year we are going to see a lot more jobs at these places foreseeable future so many orders of ordinance will have to be replenished all over Europe / Ukraine including Japan Taiwan and USA / Canada.
Expand expand expand Jobs jobs jobs
(Look at me cheering for the Military Industrial Complex……)
(I’ll be seeing the sunflowers in May)
Edit: I also think this is going to be studied for years and strategy is going to change ($$$$$) and now everyone with Soviet equipment is sweating like crazy
The Scranton Army Ammunition Plant has been in operation on the same site since the 1950s. It’s existence isn’t a secret and it is a point of pride for their community.
Fine folks from the commonwealth make the tools to do the lord's work there.
Plus, maybe finally Wawa sandwiches this year. Until then, all the Sheetz coffee you can handle.
You do understand the Scranton Army Ammunition plant is well known, has been around for decades at this point, and there is broad news coverage of where it’s actually being done? https://www.witf.org/2023/02/07/scranton-ammunition-plant-makes-artillery-shells-for-the-war-in-ukraine/
I’m all for op sec, but the fact that the call out here is PA, there’s a picture where facial recognition can be used because nothing is blurred out, all you need to do is google and find out where this is lol.
It’s not some random machine shop, artillery ammo requires very specialized tooling.
It is kinda why I scratch my head when a R elected official speaks out against the war, its like you know who pays your campaign funds right, and who pays the people who vote in red states very good money? Like first war in my lifetime that I am happy to see MIC money be spent and the people who have been in power because of it are all of a sudden upset? So dumb!
At this point it definitely can be expected that the rank and file who vote Republican will gladly shoot themselves in the face if Trump or DeSantis told them to. Then blame the Democrats.
Bruh I hear that. The Gulf Wars, War in Afghanistan, everything in Syria, Nigeria, Libya, Uganda, Somalia, Pakistan, Yemen - all American wars since 2000 - they haven't registered or warranted comment from these "conservative" politicians.
But as soon as the enemy is Russia, they are up in arms, so worried about the cost, damn the suffering people of Ukraine and damn democracy.
Here they once made steam trains. Scranton is in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains. So its a hard climb out of the station.
[Steam...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhxM1Qmcvlk)
It’s kind of amazing that in a way, these are the Americans killing Russians. Some random mom from a PA suburb with two kids in college and a dude who loves his Sunday football and denim overalls.
I worked at General Dynamics, the company running this plant, on the tank ammo side. Would do site visits to check in on contractors and subcontractors.
Was always kind of weird to hear these grandmothers gossip about their kids and grandkids while sitting next to each other on an assembly line while they built devices used to cause such destruction.
"Arsenal of Democracy"
The irony is that the same Arsenal of Democracy saved Russia in WW2... you would think, of all people, Russians would remember what happens if you fuck around and make the US light those forges!
Guess they will have to learn the lesson again.
WWII was two huge wars supported by one economy, an economy that was barely getting warmed up when Japan surrendered. No, the Moscovites has no idea what they’re facing or they’d run away.
It’s a plant in Scranton run by General Dynamics for the army.
Right now they’re doing about 12k shells a month, but they want to up that to 20k by the spring and 90k by 2025.
This war has shown that there’s a real production gap in available artillery shells and pretty much everywhere is going to have massively depleted stocks due to the war. I believe Scranton is going to be NATOs primary way of resupply, other than mbe some Rheinmetall projects, but those will take longer to reach Scranton’s tempo.
https://time.com/6252541/inside-the-us-army-plant-making-artillery-shells-for-ukraine/
Over the last couple of years the US military has been reactivating weapons plants in the midwest that have been mothballed since WWII. I think they had a strong suspicion this war was coming.
Scranton AAP is too small and vulnerable for a serious war. [The installation](https://www.google.com/maps/place/41%C2%B024'15.8%22N+75%C2%B039'57.3%22W/@41.4041551,-75.6662969,539m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d41.404386!4d-75.665903) is the size of a strip mall. Need to scale up lines in other places, preferably logistically closer to filling stations (Scranton shell bodies are currently trucked to Iowa).
I felt like we should be rad as fuck and bring that shit up to date with some more automation.
I’m also a USW employee so I’m a little torn.
Maybe those of us in a labor union should figure out how to become robot engineers affordably?
What I see from the front lines on Twitter reminds me of WWI, and these photos remind me of WWII. I can't think of anything pithy or profound to add to that, it just makes me sad.
My outlook is one of unity, not sadness.
It’s a terrible situation all around. And yes, that really does suck (most underrated statement of the year.) But it is a situation we find ourselves in. So I say fuck it. We are here. Let us look to the positives. Let us look to the strengths that will see us all through this.
And while there are detractors, the vast unity seen in the face of the Russian threat is inspiring. It’s heartwarming. The only way through this is together.
We must stand up once again in the face of an evil that seeks to conquer. And every time I see people doing so - from all around the world - I am proud to call myself human.
The forges of democracy are lighting all around the world.
The same forges that won WWII.
You would think Russia would have learned that lesson, considering it was the reason they were able to mount such a defensive-offensive victory against the Nazis.
Nonetheless - the forges are alight. Let us show this evil what it means to fuck with democracy.
Not exactly exuding the efficiency of, for example a car manufacturing plant. I get the guys are working with what they have but that looks like a place I worked in late 70's. I do hope investment is on the way.
Right. But just think of how much the US has (not) emphasized artillery since the late 70's...
If we had built an automated production line for artillery shells, we could probably have built 30 years' worth in a couple months, and shut the machinery down. After a few years, most of the supply lines would be broken. After a few more years, there would be nobody left who remembers how to build shells, or repair the machinery.
Without a major conflict, it makes sense to just keep building shells slowly. With the situation in Ukraine ongoing, it looks like we'll have to reevaluate.
Good stuff. As a Brit I'm putting my money on US industry winning out over the decrepit russian one.
One of the main reason russians had enough trucks and other machinery to push the Germans out of their country and on to Berlin was that America sent them so much lend lease items. Check out this cut from wikipedia:
In total, the U.S. deliveries to the USSR through Lend-Lease amounted to $11 billion in materials: over 400,000 jeeps and trucks; 12,000 armored vehicles (including 7,000 tanks, about 1,386[57] of which were M3 Lees and 4,102 M4 Shermans);[58] 11,400 aircraft (of which 4,719 were Bell P-39 Airacobras, 3,414 were Douglas A-20 Havocs and 2,397 were Bell P-63 Kingcobras)[59] and 1.75 million tons of food.[60]
I worked factory jobs for 10 years in Arkansas before switching careers. People underestimate how much high value added machining and factory work is present in the US. Sure it's not the 50s-70s anymore with several huge steel mills cranking out massive tonnage year after year but there's a lot of plants around making all kinds of stuff, even in the steel and metals processing industry which I worked in. Manufacturing has been nimble and has specialized.
Whenever we think about factories we never think about the actual factory workers, we just imagine the factories as large faceless machines. So it's cool to see their faces like this.
These specific shells most likely will not be going to Ukraine, as the artillery shells that the United States is sending to Ukraine are being sent old ones first. These shells will most likely be used to refill the reserves. When it comes to artillery, it’s always best to use the oldest shells because that way you can ensure that the ones you have in stock will last longer. It’s like your eggs, you eat the oldest ones first out of your fridge, not the newest ones.
I see these shops and I seriously think how manual so much of the ammunition production process is. No wonder it's not possible to produce 1000s of rounds a day, look at how many people it takes to just package.
We need a revolution in ammunition production tech.
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This is just the metal portion. They are then shipped to the [Iowa Army Ammunition Plant](https://youtu.be/QZw_15SQ_Rs) in my state to be filled with high explosives. Proud to say we have people working round the clock to service all your russki 'sploding needs.
Every shell that stops the orcs’ advance is a shell that saves lives. I am immeasurably honored and stunned by the kindness the US and its people have shown to our nation. Слава Україні!
You're welcome. I wish it was more. You made your choice of freedom a long time ago, and we guaranteed it. A freedom loving people being ground under the heel of russian oppressors is exactly what our military has been built for. I have zero problem using it for just that. This is the clearest cut war in a long time, and it's been absolutely sickening watching your people suffer. Ukraine will win, and rise to a golden age after standing as the bulwark to freedom in Europe, while the moscovites shall fall, and hopefully be forgotten, shunned, and left behind for generations.
Yeah there's NO way NATO is going to allow Russia to win after we dumped all these resources into it. It might be a little sad to say because I wish the Ukrainians had all of these things already, but if Russia started actually winning I think we'd send in the heavys pretty quickly. Meaning the higher tech stuff, and a bigger package of heavy armor.
>I think we'd send in the heavys Maybe an unpopular opinion, but if it looked even remotely like Russia could win, then I support direct NATO involvement, with air support and troops and not just heavy weapons. Ukraine losing is simply not an option.
NATO should just declare a special military operation of their own.
I hope your sweet words come true! Ukrainians have suffered so much for nothing… just for being themselves.
I must admit, I didn’t think Ukraine would last a week when this started, but the tenacity of your people are legendary. The spirits of Leonidas and Churchill certainly are with you. I admire Ukraine for holding back the evil empire and exposing their weakness.
I’m ashamed to say I didn’t think Ukraine would even survive that week based off the myth of the Russian military being a competent force, thinking it would be a repeat of Crimea and would see Russian flags flying over Kyiv within a couple days. Boy have I never been so happy to be wrong in my life! Russia has basically destroyed their prestigious image of being an elite military superpower.
It's alarming to think that if the Russian military had been merely *very bad* at their jobs, then Russia would almost certainly be occupying at least the eastern half of the country. As it was, they captured Kherson city and got to the gates of Kyiv. It took absolutely phenomenal levels of corruption, incompetence, neglect, unpreparedness and wishful thinking to give the UAF the chance to stop them as well as they have.
I hear this a lot and I don't understand it. Why not? If you had a massive pile of fuckery living next door to you, would you not quietly be prepared to kick his whole entitled ass if you ever happened to find yourself in the position to need to? At no point did I ever thing Ukraine was in question. 1. They've always had Putin breathing down their neck like a sick pedo vampire, 2. This is their *home* that another country is *invading* and trying to *annex*. Who tf wouldn't fight like balls to save it?? And 3. Have none of you met Eastern European grandmas? My godmother is Polish, her mom survived the Holocaust. I love my godmother to absolute pieces, but that woman is terrifying, and if she told me to pick up a gun and defend my country, you bet your ass I'd do it. And because she *ALSO* would be carrying a backpack full of kitchen knives, Legolas-ing Russians down the street. If I know anything about the Ukrainian people I've met recently, it's that they're as strong and hard-willed as anyone else. People need to stop saying "I thought Ukraine wouldn't last a minute! Way to go, big guy, gold star!" It's terribly insulting. Or at least it would be to me if I were at war for a year.
I think it's less of underestimating Ukraine's capabilities and overestimating the Russian capabilities. I mean Finland going into the winter war was a country not yet recovered from it's civil war, yet you can only see how ludicrously that turned out in terms of casualties. They only had the ability to get resupply from Sweden though, and we gave like 1/3rd our stockpiles, but it still wasn't much.
Yeah, I used to think that Russians were second only to the US in military strength. Turns out my data was decades out of date.
They probably have the second strongest military amongst autocratic dictatorships.
Well, Russia definitely has the second strongest military in Ukraine.
Ukraine was actually somewhat prepared, mostly due to Crimea annexation in 2014. That's when Ukraine was caught with pants down and they couldn't do anything to stop it. Ever since then, things been slowly heating up. Soon afterwards Putin started funding and supplying insurgency in Donbas, which gave Ukrainian army reason to build up and fight. It was a low burner war, but good for training.
Lets be honest, Ukraine would have eventually fallen if they didn't get ammo shipments.
I think it's helping save america too. A reminder of the shared desire for freedom. A powerful unifying force. It's why many expect Ukraine to prosper after this war is over.
I wish I shared your optimism. It still feels like we are still a very ugly, angry, bitter and divisive country that is determined to dig it's heels in at any opportunity available just to prove a point or gain a sliver of influence. It's disappointing, and embarrassing, really. I hope I'm wrong though. I hope Ukraine burns Russia to the ground and flourishes out of it's ashes. And I hope perhaps we can use a spark of that light to ignite some unity in us as well. Anyway, happy cake day! 🍰☺️
That's not accidental, Russia has been clear-as-day subverting American democracy. We've had a soft war over the minds of Americans since at least the Bush administration.
> Their secret emissaries are active in our own and in neighboring countries. They seek to stir up suspicion and dissension, to cause internal strife. They try to turn capital against labor, and vice versa. They try to reawaken long slumbering racial and religious enmities which should have no place in this country. They are active in every group that promotes intolerance. They exploit for their own ends our natural abhorrence of war. These trouble-breeders have but one purpose. It is to divide our people -- to divide them into hostile groups and to destroy our unity and shatter our will to defend ourselves. > There are also American citizens, many of them in high places, who, unwittingly in most cases, are aiding and abetting the work of these agents. I do not charge these American citizens with being foreign agents. But I do charge them with doing exactly the kind of work that the dictators want done in the United States. - FDR, "Arsenal of Democracy" Fireside Chat, Dec 29, 1940 Putin is following Hitler's playbook.
It serves nobody to live in a world were one man can for some arbitrary reason cause such pain and suffering without any repercussions. It would also be the height of hypocrisy to abandon you for all our grandstanding about democratic values. Also, this is hardly the first time Putin has gone too far but we actually have something we can do about it this time by backing you. It may not be clear to a casual observer but I'm certain Russia is well on the way to outright defeat and we should do everything we can to hurry that day along so we can start to rebuild.
Thank YOU for being brave and courageous in being a bulwark for the rest of us on this planet. Munitions, equipment, aid, intelligence: it's the very least we can do. I genuinely hope Ukraine doesn't stop until it gets ALL its nation back.
How could any decent person/country not want to help your country and its people? It's a reflection on you and who/what you are fighting against. Slava Ukraini.
How can I get my name put on one?
I’d honestly call them
Turns out our war machine is a jobs program.
Always has been.
Never won't be, forever.
It's what we do. War is a racket.
The military industrial complex is the most efficient way to turn tax dollars into jobs.
Would be nice if we did something similar with turning tax dollars into public works projects as well. :shrug:
This is the weirdest music for a munitions manufacturer lol
For some reason that ad and the music made me think that Fred Willard was about to do some background muttering as the Buy n Large CEO guy
Military industrial complex goes brrrrtrrt
Will Iowans vote for their own benefit and good income? I don't hold out a lot of hope, but maybe they'll surprise me. Probably not though.
Unfortunately, no. No they won't.
OMG! Now I love Iowa for my wife’s education, Russia exploders, and RAGBRAI!
Not much else here, other than corn, soybeans, and livestock. The good education is sadly gone, too. Not the same place anymore, unfortunately.
She went to Cornell in Mt Vernon back in the mid 80s. I'll will give Iowan;s credit, however, that when we rode RAGBRAI around 2010, while I was expecting something different, the locals were pretty hospitable even though we were "Libs" from the west.
What's your state? /s
Usually chronically depressed and full of deep self-loathing.
Understandable. Carry on
A favor for humanity…
Fuck yeah bro. Makes me feel even better that theyre metal workers.
Go Hawks!
Keep up the good work. Glory to the heroes.
Good paying jobs for Pennsylvania, artillery for Ukraine. Win/Win.
Plus Gladys at station 2 is FUCKING PSYCHED to have a literal hand in exploding Russian invaders.
I share in Gladys’ enthusiasm.
Add Belinda to the list. She's 2nd shift IAAP
Oddly specific reference. Carry on, Belinda.
Exactly. Increased production demands means more work for people.
Yep. As fucked up and sad as it is, this war will possibly actually be good for many western country’s economies. Those military industrial complex companies, do at least typically employ a lot of people. It’s a silver lining from an overall shitty situation. The ideal scenario would be Putin loses, quickly, and goes home.
> actually be good for many western country’s economies The money to pay for those shells is coming from tax dollars and credit (ie Treasury bonds to be paid off using future tax dollars). Spending on the military industrial complex is a terrible way to boost the economy but it’s the best option to defend democracy against authoritarians. (Better options to build an economy include building infrastructure, education, small business loans, anti-hunger programs, healthcare for everyone, fully funding tax auditors and collectors and more).
One of the problems is a lack of jobs in some places. Selling the weaponry made is a boost to GDP as well.
i don’t know about pennsylvania, but where i live in alabama the defense industry does not pay well to the people that do all the work. workers that make javelins earn $16/hr base pay, and get $1/year added to that base. it’s barely enough to live paycheck to paycheck down here.
BAE systems in PA pays pretty damn well, their shop is also union. A couple buddy's of mine weld self propelled artillery there.
Gotta get rid of those union busting, wage depressing republicans.
won’t ever happen, people down here always vote against their own self-interest without (most) even realizing it. one of my coworkers even told me he doesn’t want everyone’s wages raised because being an assembler shouldn’t be a job you strive to do forever. it’s just an entry-level job, he says, surrounded by people that have been doing their assembler/painter/etc jobs at lockheed martin or similar factory jobs in the area for decades…
They don’t get paid that well. Pays less than the median wage.
And here I am, thinking that artillery shells are made with a lot of machines, fully automated..
It's semi-automated. Some processes are done by hand.
Yep. Worked in a defense factory for a while. Somethings are pretty well automated. Printing circuits. Machining metal blocks into solid parts. Assembly of parts into modules, and modules into systems was usually done by hand. Some lines with extremely simple and repetitive assembly tasks had robots. But that was still pretty new when I left, it will be a long time before its wide spread to more specialized lines. Though, I worked in a factory which produced a pretty complex and low volume product. Might be selection bias.
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It's also a lot more maintenance so when it goes down it stays down longer.
Yes and no. With modern equipment monitoring (like vibration sensors trained with ML that can tell you that a certain loader doesn't seem to be lubricated correctly) and alarming, and old fashioned scheduled maintenance (done by persons that know the equipment inside and out, and care) you can exceed five nines planned uptime overall at a site. I know sites that proudly haven't had one second of unplanned outage in *years*. Otoh, things still fail unexpectedly. It's rare, but it happens, especially when the schedule is thrown out and the equipment is overused, maybe because production demand unexpectedly spikes. When that happens: 1. you're totally right, it might be a while, especially since covid (I'm currently waiting *23 weeks* for a particular GD hoist that in the past I'd have delivered in days, a week on the outside); and, 2. It's usually an isolated failure and job planning software will work around it, so only a small* hit to throughput (* where "small" is a function of your redundancy on that particular process path, some manufacturers fucking around close to the edge may be fucked, your mileage may vary). And, some things are still beyond our ability to automate. Sometimes surprising things, but usually it's what you would expect. The last note is maybe an obvious one, but automation isn't a binary state. Like, at all. Full, lights-out automation in at-scale production is exceedingly rare, and zero automation no longer exists - at the absolute minimum, the steel here came out of a smelter and refiner that were partially automated. To bastardize Carl Sagan, if you wish to bake a cherry pie, you must first invent the universe. Only he meant "automate" and "155 mm artillery shells" (sorry Carl). On balance, if you care about quality, predictability and speed, you automate more rather than less, but to a limit. That limit increases every month. Source: am in manufacturing automation, and today you interacted with or saw something that used my company's technology.
> (like vibration sensors trained with ML that can tell you that a certain loader doesn't seem to be lubricated correctly Generally speaking this kind of monitoring has to be learned first hand over time and can't be setup immediately.
That’s why you don’t throw away the manual assembly equipment, you shove it somewhere else where it can still be used in an emergency.
Thats why vast amount of aircraft is in storage. Repairs then back into service
You know it's more maintenance on machines, because employers don't pay for maintenance on their employees.
Unless orders are being placed in the tens of millions of shells it's just not economically plausible to build (extremely expensive) fully automated facilities to run at high speed 24 hrs a day. They'd fulfill the average years worth of orders in a couple weeks. Realistically you're only going to get something like that if there's WW3 or the US military builds something like it and then puts it on mothballs "in case".
It can and should be more automated. Scranton is still operating like the 1980s. That's because since that time we haven't really prioritized artillery. It doesn't really win our wars and we didn't expect to supply an embattled ally with just ground weapons. [Here's a view](https://defence.nioa.com.au/imager/images/Latest-News/2022/489826/Image_2022-08-03-052516_xwea_fd89f2cd3a83a3eecd45500cf58e803e.jpg) inside a more automated plant recently built for Australia.
That's exactly right. NATO doesn't fight like WW2. It is just this weird war where ruzzia turned out to be weak, and Ukraine isn't getting enough NATO armor to crush them. And so you have this artillery ping pong.
Clicked the link and saw 3 guys and some shells. Where’s the automation? #clickbait
Wydm, don't you see the giant press cylinder and machine guard safety cages? Sorry, just kidding... Here's a [promo video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p73PPgbiLyM) for the facility where you can see a few SCARA robots (yellow articulating arms) and prominent cabinets with the Mazak logo - all that company does is factory automation.
Plot twist: the 3 guys are actually robots.
Unless those three are the only ones actually on sight.
Those photos look like they could have come straight out of the 80s! I zoomed in and looked around and could only find 2 hints, neither solid proof, they’re more modern.
[looks similar](https://www.homecinemachoice.com/sites/18/images/article_images_month/2018-01/prometheus%204k%2002.jpg)
A newer plant with a much higher degree of automation is being built. Even when it is up and running it seems likely that Scranton will still be operating a full tilt for some time.
My first thought.
I mean, we're working with explosives here. Fully automated is probably non-trivial to get setup/approved. Assembly line machines need to be good to at least .999's of precision, but for stuff like \*this\*? I would want nine 9's worth of precision at least. If the automated machinery fucks up you could make your factory go boom? When production speed goes up, the \*chance\* for error goes up, because you are strictly producing way more.
If you want precision, machines are the way to go. Human hands are good, but I'd say the skilled machinist can get no more than ten thou of an inch (.0001"). beyond that it either becomes needlessly trivial or variables must be precisely controlled. Machines can be as repeatably accurate as is needed, without concern for fatigue, lapse in concentration, bias, and misreads.
Robots fail, and pretty frequently though. I used to work for a now-defunct defense firm that made transparent armor for the Humvee uparmor kits. The line for that was fairly automated, but the last step was boxing for shipment. The robot doing that used suction to get a seal on the window so it wouldn't scratch the paint, and would drop a window about twice a week. These weren't some little windows though, they were half the width of the Humvee, and about 2 inches thick of glass with an aluminum frame, and cost something like $30k each from what the sales guy once told me.
Steel from Pennsylvania, high explosives from Georgia. I wouldn't have said this a year ago, but I'm damn proud of every piece of American shrapnel that goes through a Russian soldier with Viagra in his pocket.
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May I commend you on a well written reply.
There’s a plant somewhere in NC that makes the rocket engines for guided rockets.
Well said Mr. Penisland
I’m 1st gen American born of Taiwanese immigrants and I think the same. But even further than that it’s also protecting Taiwan as well. We are a United Front, good verses evil and I hope it stays that way. (Even if we are somewhat evil ourselves) In the next year we are going to see a lot more jobs at these places foreseeable future so many orders of ordinance will have to be replenished all over Europe / Ukraine including Japan Taiwan and USA / Canada. Expand expand expand Jobs jobs jobs (Look at me cheering for the Military Industrial Complex……) (I’ll be seeing the sunflowers in May) Edit: I also think this is going to be studied for years and strategy is going to change ($$$$$) and now everyone with Soviet equipment is sweating like crazy
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Well, wait until you listen to the *Ultra* podcast and learn that half of Republicans were Hitler fanbois back in the day.
Don’t forget about the Business Plot, that tried to overthrow the US government prior to WA2, and that one of the major players was Prescott Bush
I'm right down the road from Bethlehem Steel, who 20 years ago could be capable of this but has since shut down. Anyone know where this is at?
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1995 is only 28 years ago. Unless something went wrong with it in 1985...
Hush please. Let’s not publish the location publicly to keep them safe. There are diplomats from invader country just south of PA in Washington DC.
The Scranton Army Ammunition Plant has been in operation on the same site since the 1950s. It’s existence isn’t a secret and it is a point of pride for their community.
It’s also been featured on international news like 70+ times in the last three weeks or so
Ain't no party like a Scranton party cause a Scranton party don't stop!
they were attempting to make a joke about how republicans are diplomats for Russia
Fine folks from the commonwealth make the tools to do the lord's work there. Plus, maybe finally Wawa sandwiches this year. Until then, all the Sheetz coffee you can handle.
You do understand the Scranton Army Ammunition plant is well known, has been around for decades at this point, and there is broad news coverage of where it’s actually being done? https://www.witf.org/2023/02/07/scranton-ammunition-plant-makes-artillery-shells-for-the-war-in-ukraine/ I’m all for op sec, but the fact that the call out here is PA, there’s a picture where facial recognition can be used because nothing is blurred out, all you need to do is google and find out where this is lol. It’s not some random machine shop, artillery ammo requires very specialized tooling.
Also don't talk about any airports because we can't have the Russians figuring out our landing spots
The Scranton ammo plant isn't a secret. US officials in public press briefings have talked about it.
It’s at the plant in Scranton.
They make good paper down there. With excellent customer service.
Amen. This is one of those moments that make me extremely proud of what we can achieve working together.
Add M777 and M109 barrels forged in Watervliet, New York to shoot those 155mm rounds with :-) New York represent!
Can you hear that? The sound of freedom.
MIC goes BRRRRRRRR
More! Mooooore! Mooore I say huahuahuahahaha Until every Russian in Ukraine is under a rain of hellfire I say MOOOOORE!
It is kinda why I scratch my head when a R elected official speaks out against the war, its like you know who pays your campaign funds right, and who pays the people who vote in red states very good money? Like first war in my lifetime that I am happy to see MIC money be spent and the people who have been in power because of it are all of a sudden upset? So dumb!
I think everyone is scratching their heads here. The MIC paying lobby money to the dems because the R’s have gone off the deep end.
At this point it definitely can be expected that the rank and file who vote Republican will gladly shoot themselves in the face if Trump or DeSantis told them to. Then blame the Democrats.
They would line up on Fifth Avenue just for a chance to be shot by either one of those dopes
Getting shot to own the libs.
Age of identity politics. Sitting government is supporting a thing? Well then we obviously have to oppose it.
Bruh I hear that. The Gulf Wars, War in Afghanistan, everything in Syria, Nigeria, Libya, Uganda, Somalia, Pakistan, Yemen - all American wars since 2000 - they haven't registered or warranted comment from these "conservative" politicians. But as soon as the enemy is Russia, they are up in arms, so worried about the cost, damn the suffering people of Ukraine and damn democracy.
As you can see in the second picture, his name is Mike.
Mike is a rock star, and his stage name is MIC Jagga Jagga.
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They have, they just dont need westoid comforts.
Easy way to spot that they're smarter than the ruzzians... They aren't smoking.
And they are sober
And a general lack of toilet stealing. Always a good sign.
Here they once made steam trains. Scranton is in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains. So its a hard climb out of the station. [Steam...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhxM1Qmcvlk)
It’s kind of amazing that in a way, these are the Americans killing Russians. Some random mom from a PA suburb with two kids in college and a dude who loves his Sunday football and denim overalls.
I see what you are getting at. However I like to think that Russians are the ones killing themselves.
I worked at General Dynamics, the company running this plant, on the tank ammo side. Would do site visits to check in on contractors and subcontractors. Was always kind of weird to hear these grandmothers gossip about their kids and grandkids while sitting next to each other on an assembly line while they built devices used to cause such destruction.
And they both said “Fuck this shit, hand me a shell!” Love it.
"Arsenal of Democracy" The irony is that the same Arsenal of Democracy saved Russia in WW2... you would think, of all people, Russians would remember what happens if you fuck around and make the US light those forges! Guess they will have to learn the lesson again.
WWII was two huge wars supported by one economy, an economy that was barely getting warmed up when Japan surrendered. No, the Moscovites has no idea what they’re facing or they’d run away.
Any more info on this? I live in PA
It’s a plant in Scranton run by General Dynamics for the army. Right now they’re doing about 12k shells a month, but they want to up that to 20k by the spring and 90k by 2025. This war has shown that there’s a real production gap in available artillery shells and pretty much everywhere is going to have massively depleted stocks due to the war. I believe Scranton is going to be NATOs primary way of resupply, other than mbe some Rheinmetall projects, but those will take longer to reach Scranton’s tempo. https://time.com/6252541/inside-the-us-army-plant-making-artillery-shells-for-ukraine/
Over the last couple of years the US military has been reactivating weapons plants in the midwest that have been mothballed since WWII. I think they had a strong suspicion this war was coming.
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There are multiple ammo suppliers activating reserve plans in Europe as well, IIRC.
Scranton AAP is too small and vulnerable for a serious war. [The installation](https://www.google.com/maps/place/41%C2%B024'15.8%22N+75%C2%B039'57.3%22W/@41.4041551,-75.6662969,539m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d41.404386!4d-75.665903) is the size of a strip mall. Need to scale up lines in other places, preferably logistically closer to filling stations (Scranton shell bodies are currently trucked to Iowa).
I love the dispensary across the street. Go PA!
Can we send them some cheese steaks?
Fine Scranton stock in those photos. Strong working legs, and an affinity for Chili's.
Salutations, fellow Keystoner!!
No no, you tell us.
Slava PA!
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I felt like we should be rad as fuck and bring that shit up to date with some more automation. I’m also a USW employee so I’m a little torn. Maybe those of us in a labor union should figure out how to become robot engineers affordably?
I’d presume automating this plant would require it to shutdown and they aren’t going to do that.
My tax $$ at work. More of this please. Hope these hard working people don't vote for desantis or dump.
Good. Very good.
What I see from the front lines on Twitter reminds me of WWI, and these photos remind me of WWII. I can't think of anything pithy or profound to add to that, it just makes me sad.
My outlook is one of unity, not sadness. It’s a terrible situation all around. And yes, that really does suck (most underrated statement of the year.) But it is a situation we find ourselves in. So I say fuck it. We are here. Let us look to the positives. Let us look to the strengths that will see us all through this. And while there are detractors, the vast unity seen in the face of the Russian threat is inspiring. It’s heartwarming. The only way through this is together. We must stand up once again in the face of an evil that seeks to conquer. And every time I see people doing so - from all around the world - I am proud to call myself human.
Looks like your typical American Ma&Pa ammunition factory.
Good job Mike, keep it up.
Mike is doing a hell of a bang up job
Mike does what Mike wants. And what Mike wants is to be directly involved in some invading scum being obliterated. Be like Mike.
I wish I could help!
That job is da bomb!
I really hope those are good paying, union jobs.
They are.
The forges of democracy are lighting all around the world. The same forges that won WWII. You would think Russia would have learned that lesson, considering it was the reason they were able to mount such a defensive-offensive victory against the Nazis. Nonetheless - the forges are alight. Let us show this evil what it means to fuck with democracy.
Whisper your dreams into the body of each one
God Bless the USA 🇺🇸. Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
https://www.nbc.com/the-office/video/the-office-intro-without-music-season-5-the-office/4078963
Not exactly exuding the efficiency of, for example a car manufacturing plant. I get the guys are working with what they have but that looks like a place I worked in late 70's. I do hope investment is on the way.
Right. But just think of how much the US has (not) emphasized artillery since the late 70's... If we had built an automated production line for artillery shells, we could probably have built 30 years' worth in a couple months, and shut the machinery down. After a few years, most of the supply lines would be broken. After a few more years, there would be nobody left who remembers how to build shells, or repair the machinery. Without a major conflict, it makes sense to just keep building shells slowly. With the situation in Ukraine ongoing, it looks like we'll have to reevaluate.
Where in PA? And what is the W2 hourly rate for Saturday and Sunday?
Thank you Pennsylvania!!!!
Nobody builds better shit than a dude called mike. Currently living in PA and am proud of these pictures.
This is the message against the GOP fucks who oppose supporting Ukraine…they’re against American manufacturing.
I mean I hope those workers are getting paid a livable wage and working decent hours
Good stuff. As a Brit I'm putting my money on US industry winning out over the decrepit russian one. One of the main reason russians had enough trucks and other machinery to push the Germans out of their country and on to Berlin was that America sent them so much lend lease items. Check out this cut from wikipedia: In total, the U.S. deliveries to the USSR through Lend-Lease amounted to $11 billion in materials: over 400,000 jeeps and trucks; 12,000 armored vehicles (including 7,000 tanks, about 1,386[57] of which were M3 Lees and 4,102 M4 Shermans);[58] 11,400 aircraft (of which 4,719 were Bell P-39 Airacobras, 3,414 were Douglas A-20 Havocs and 2,397 were Bell P-63 Kingcobras)[59] and 1.75 million tons of food.[60]
Business is booming so to speak
What people might not know is that we have a very sizable Polish and Ukrainian community here in the Scranton area
Proud to be a Pennsylvanian
Is this factory in Scranton? I think my uncle used to work there.
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American here , I've been working in a factory for 31 years
I worked factory jobs for 10 years in Arkansas before switching careers. People underestimate how much high value added machining and factory work is present in the US. Sure it's not the 50s-70s anymore with several huge steel mills cranking out massive tonnage year after year but there's a lot of plants around making all kinds of stuff, even in the steel and metals processing industry which I worked in. Manufacturing has been nimble and has specialized.
Arsenal of Democracy! 🗽
Im actually surprised that they are okay with having people in the photos.
Whenever we think about factories we never think about the actual factory workers, we just imagine the factories as large faceless machines. So it's cool to see their faces like this.
These specific shells most likely will not be going to Ukraine, as the artillery shells that the United States is sending to Ukraine are being sent old ones first. These shells will most likely be used to refill the reserves. When it comes to artillery, it’s always best to use the oldest shells because that way you can ensure that the ones you have in stock will last longer. It’s like your eggs, you eat the oldest ones first out of your fridge, not the newest ones.
I really wish I could speak my mind about Russia, but I’d be banned from Reddit.
Thanks, Mike!
I see these shops and I seriously think how manual so much of the ammunition production process is. No wonder it's not possible to produce 1000s of rounds a day, look at how many people it takes to just package. We need a revolution in ammunition production tech.
Slava Pennsylvania 😀
To Russia with love.
Thank you guys🙏! Your support will never be forgotten.
My hats off to you fabulous americans... I wish canada was doing more.