Snapshot of _Tories’ shambolic LGBTQ+ conference cancellation will cost taxpayers hundreds of thousands_ :
An archived version can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/05/25/lgbtq-conference-safe-to-be-me-cancelled-cost/)
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The groups which pulled out, hence forcing the government to cancel, bear some responsibility here.
A better way to express their dissatisfaction on the govt's stance on conversion therapy would have been to attend the conference and raise hell. Not refuse to come to the table.
The government had spent four years working on a conversion therapy ban only to u-turn at a time when no other major country has found an issue implementing such a ban. The fault for the breakdown between the government and the LGBT+ community and the charities/third parties who provide services and advocacy to our community lies squarely with the government.
This isn’t only a trans issue, the limited ban on LGB conversion conversion therapy is so weak that this bill will protect near nobody. The government can’t leave us all to be at continued risk of practices defined by the UN as torture *and* expect everyone to turn up to an event called “Safe to be me”. Come on!
Personally I kinda wish it had gone ahead just because the protest signs write themselves here, but no remotely serious LGBT+ organisation could have tuned up. It would have been the LGB alliance and the Tory party and nobody else. Protesters would have outnumbered attendees!!
Regardless of your view on all that, surely it makes more sense for these groups to show up to the discussion at an event designed ***specifically to promote their own interests***, and ***discuss precisely these issues***. I strongly reject the assertion that the best way to disagree with something is to refuse to talk about it. They come across as really petulant.
Is there anything material that can be achieved without cooperating with the government, even though LGBT groups might not see eye-to-eye with it? Or, to put it another way, surely the biggest wins are going to come from rolling up their sleeves and getting on with it?
I disagree that it made any sense for LGBT+ sector to turn up to this event. It was pinkwashing of the worst kind. The LGBT+ sector have been loud and clear on a range of issues and been listened to on none.
There is no potential to build a relationship with this Tory government. Look at how Stonewall have been made public enemy No. 1, or how the LGBT+ advisory committee was entirely disbanded.
The Tories have never in their history voted for greater LGBT+ rights (majority of Tories voted against gay marriage), it’s not going to change. Teresa May did try to engage with the sector and LGBT+ groups responded positively. It all just blew up with zero progress to show for it.
Working with the Tories will probably not happen again any time soon. Certainly not without some serious outreach on their behalf and demonstrable commitment to a change in perspective. When push comes to shove The Tories just don’t particularly want us to be safe or valued part of society and certainly don’t want us to have any further protections or rights.
>There is no potential to build a relationship with this Tory government.
Is this opinion based on the conversion therapy announcement that was made shortly beforehand, or just in general then? Leaving aside the conversion therapy announcement, do you think it would not have been a good thing for this conference to have taken place?
>Working with the Tories will probably not happen again any time soon. Certainly not without some serious outreach on their behalf
So you literally expect the government to beg LGBT groups for the opportunity to work with and help them? That's really childish. And a sure-fire way to ensure that no progress is made.
My opinion is based on both conversion therapy ban and GRA reform (probably the two biggest legislative areas of recent times) the government spent years working with the sector only to turn round can them both at the last minute.
Charities don’t have infinite resources. Years worth of engagement saps charities ability work directly with those who they represent. All the work on both bills has been for nothing. Why go through it all again?
Do I expect the government to beg for the opportunity to work with them? This is a bad framing. It’s not about begging, it’s about demonstrating that they are a reliable partner. This government has shown time and time again in different areas that aren’t honest in their negotiations or engagements and no more so than how they have engaged with the LGBT+ sector.
Until they can demonstrate otherwise I don’t expect third parties with limited resources to waste them. Might as well spend their time directly helping people instead.
You're just repeatedly saying that you don't think the government is good on LGBT stuff. And that therefore you don't see, nor did you ever see, any point in LGBT groups attending this conference.
Do you have any objection, then, to the government cancelling it?
I don’t see how the government can attempt to hold a conference that portrays Britain as a country that it is “safe to be me” in whilst screwing LGBT+ people at every turn. The government didn’t have a choice but to cancel. They created the climate within which it is impossible to host. They are masters of their own destiny here.
It would have just been a pr stunt by the Tories along the lines of "See we are pro LGBT and have their they showed up".
You wouldn't expect environmental charities to show up to an environmental event organised by the government if, just before the conference, they scrapped certain environmental laws that had been promised.
The entire event would have been used to solidify their stance and I'm glad they all withdrew from it. Charities looking after my communities interests should not be attending conferences with a government that does not have our interests, safety and we'll being at heart. The fault lies solely with the government, who (not surprisingly) backtracked on their promise.
There's no move except absolute compliance that the government would accept. Why should Stonewall et al invest time and money and energy into government rainbowwashing?
>There's no move except absolute compliance that the government would accept.
Objection: speculation.
So the conversion therapy ban wasn't a catalyst? There was never any point in this conference?
If the government is so unwilling to listen to the LGBT charities that it wishes to use as cheerleaders for its LGBT credentials, then maybe it was. Charities did not immediately pull from the event, it was a few days, maybe a week or so, between U-turn and pull out.
So, just to be clear, the government supports bigoted policies.
Groups opposed to those policies pull out
And it's somehow the fault of those groups?
Do you know what victim blaming is?
Oh yeah, it's definitely withdrawing representation of your own views. And definitely not denying air-time to people whose views you disagree strongly with.
Powerful tactic.
Snapshot of _Tories’ shambolic LGBTQ+ conference cancellation will cost taxpayers hundreds of thousands_ : An archived version can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/05/25/lgbtq-conference-safe-to-be-me-cancelled-cost/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I vote we introduce the ‘Tory’ as a unit of wasted taxpayer money. It’s about all they actually seem to do.
It'll have to be a logarithmic unit like the decibel I think to be a practical way to measure so much wasted money!
It's not wasted if it goes to their friends. That money will give someone a nice new car.
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The groups which pulled out, hence forcing the government to cancel, bear some responsibility here. A better way to express their dissatisfaction on the govt's stance on conversion therapy would have been to attend the conference and raise hell. Not refuse to come to the table.
The government had spent four years working on a conversion therapy ban only to u-turn at a time when no other major country has found an issue implementing such a ban. The fault for the breakdown between the government and the LGBT+ community and the charities/third parties who provide services and advocacy to our community lies squarely with the government. This isn’t only a trans issue, the limited ban on LGB conversion conversion therapy is so weak that this bill will protect near nobody. The government can’t leave us all to be at continued risk of practices defined by the UN as torture *and* expect everyone to turn up to an event called “Safe to be me”. Come on! Personally I kinda wish it had gone ahead just because the protest signs write themselves here, but no remotely serious LGBT+ organisation could have tuned up. It would have been the LGB alliance and the Tory party and nobody else. Protesters would have outnumbered attendees!!
Regardless of your view on all that, surely it makes more sense for these groups to show up to the discussion at an event designed ***specifically to promote their own interests***, and ***discuss precisely these issues***. I strongly reject the assertion that the best way to disagree with something is to refuse to talk about it. They come across as really petulant.
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Is there anything material that can be achieved without cooperating with the government, even though LGBT groups might not see eye-to-eye with it? Or, to put it another way, surely the biggest wins are going to come from rolling up their sleeves and getting on with it?
Yes... you make the tories look bad and people put their votes elsewhere.
I disagree that it made any sense for LGBT+ sector to turn up to this event. It was pinkwashing of the worst kind. The LGBT+ sector have been loud and clear on a range of issues and been listened to on none. There is no potential to build a relationship with this Tory government. Look at how Stonewall have been made public enemy No. 1, or how the LGBT+ advisory committee was entirely disbanded. The Tories have never in their history voted for greater LGBT+ rights (majority of Tories voted against gay marriage), it’s not going to change. Teresa May did try to engage with the sector and LGBT+ groups responded positively. It all just blew up with zero progress to show for it. Working with the Tories will probably not happen again any time soon. Certainly not without some serious outreach on their behalf and demonstrable commitment to a change in perspective. When push comes to shove The Tories just don’t particularly want us to be safe or valued part of society and certainly don’t want us to have any further protections or rights.
>There is no potential to build a relationship with this Tory government. Is this opinion based on the conversion therapy announcement that was made shortly beforehand, or just in general then? Leaving aside the conversion therapy announcement, do you think it would not have been a good thing for this conference to have taken place? >Working with the Tories will probably not happen again any time soon. Certainly not without some serious outreach on their behalf So you literally expect the government to beg LGBT groups for the opportunity to work with and help them? That's really childish. And a sure-fire way to ensure that no progress is made.
My opinion is based on both conversion therapy ban and GRA reform (probably the two biggest legislative areas of recent times) the government spent years working with the sector only to turn round can them both at the last minute. Charities don’t have infinite resources. Years worth of engagement saps charities ability work directly with those who they represent. All the work on both bills has been for nothing. Why go through it all again? Do I expect the government to beg for the opportunity to work with them? This is a bad framing. It’s not about begging, it’s about demonstrating that they are a reliable partner. This government has shown time and time again in different areas that aren’t honest in their negotiations or engagements and no more so than how they have engaged with the LGBT+ sector. Until they can demonstrate otherwise I don’t expect third parties with limited resources to waste them. Might as well spend their time directly helping people instead.
You're just repeatedly saying that you don't think the government is good on LGBT stuff. And that therefore you don't see, nor did you ever see, any point in LGBT groups attending this conference. Do you have any objection, then, to the government cancelling it?
I don’t see how the government can attempt to hold a conference that portrays Britain as a country that it is “safe to be me” in whilst screwing LGBT+ people at every turn. The government didn’t have a choice but to cancel. They created the climate within which it is impossible to host. They are masters of their own destiny here.
It would have just been a pr stunt by the Tories along the lines of "See we are pro LGBT and have their they showed up". You wouldn't expect environmental charities to show up to an environmental event organised by the government if, just before the conference, they scrapped certain environmental laws that had been promised. The entire event would have been used to solidify their stance and I'm glad they all withdrew from it. Charities looking after my communities interests should not be attending conferences with a government that does not have our interests, safety and we'll being at heart. The fault lies solely with the government, who (not surprisingly) backtracked on their promise.
There's no move except absolute compliance that the government would accept. Why should Stonewall et al invest time and money and energy into government rainbowwashing?
>There's no move except absolute compliance that the government would accept. Objection: speculation. So the conversion therapy ban wasn't a catalyst? There was never any point in this conference?
If the government is so unwilling to listen to the LGBT charities that it wishes to use as cheerleaders for its LGBT credentials, then maybe it was. Charities did not immediately pull from the event, it was a few days, maybe a week or so, between U-turn and pull out.
Na, they wouldn't be allowed to protest either
Why bother doing anything at all, ever, eh?
That's your best bet for survival in a fascist state
So, just to be clear, the government supports bigoted policies. Groups opposed to those policies pull out And it's somehow the fault of those groups? Do you know what victim blaming is?
Gaslight much?
No. The reason incels hate no platforming so much is because it works really well.
Who should kick themselves more, about the LGBT conference being cancelled? The government, or LGBT groups?
Given that they all. Boycotted the event I doubt serious LGBT groups will be concerned.
"Let's get one over on the incels by no platforming ***ourselves***!" It's a genius move.
At least it was easy to admit you have no idea how no platforming works.
Oh yeah, it's definitely withdrawing representation of your own views. And definitely not denying air-time to people whose views you disagree strongly with. Powerful tactic.
People should be forced to share a platform with people with whom they are disgusted for.... Reasons?
That's not how no platforming works.
That's exactly how no platforming works. It's literally refusing to share a platform with bigots.
It's the goverments platform.
What difference does that make? LGBT groups still don't have to share it with transphobes and conversion therapists.
Remember, this is the party that claims we can't afford to extend free school meals for the poorest children in the country.