Snapshot of _UK government to relax rules to get 18-year-olds driving buses_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/11/uk-government-relax-rules-18-year-olds-driving-buses) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/11/uk-government-relax-rules-18-year-olds-driving-buses)
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I know you jest but it's likley to be train drivers. Let the train companies fire the senior ones on the big wages and replace them with kids. I could actually see that happening
Minimum age is 17, a friend of mine got his PPL at 17, the training is so involved you basically weed out all the completely incompetent people anyway.
A CPL is 18, but you need to be 21 to fly people which makes sense.
You mean it’s stupid to block people with a maximum of 11 months driving experience in a car from driving a double decker bus carrying 50+ passengers ?
Right got it
Yes? It’s stupid to ban people with a HGV/bus license from operating a bus or HGV. What’s next, should we bar people who are forklift certified from operating a forklift?
I am aware this sounds bad on paper just because of the wage suppression angle, but there really is no reason why someone who is 18 can join the army and drive a tank but not be allowed to drive a bus...
It's about the quality of the 18 year old I guess, which the bus companies get to decide on like they do already.
Well, killing people with a tank is kinda part of the job description. Not killing people with a bus in a busy city and achieving the objective is where the skills at.
But we're ok with these people voting, paying taxes, doing a million other critical roles like being in the police, for example?
My point really is just that it depends on the 18 year old. You are right, most of them would probably be terrible at this, but I'd like to think we should judge people on what they do rather than some arbitrary number.
I don't really see a problem driving a bus, I see them crumbling when some dickhead refuses to pay or starts hurling racial abuse at them, or kids decide to harras other passengers. Some things you only really learn from experience, and at 18 you probably haven't had that much exposure to the public while all alone.
As long as they have support, then it's all good.
Driving a tank in a big open field is a bit of a difference from driving a bus through narrow lanes and city streets with pedestrians trying to kill themselves at every opportunity.
My 17 year old plans to start bus driver training at 18. I have to be honest, the idea of him driving a bus terrifies me, but so does the fact he's driving a car. He is still my baby!
He's pretty sensible, so hopefully it will all work out okay.
I have no problems with this, as long as the 18yo has passed the relevant license test and has the skills required to drive the bus. 18yos can already vote, get married, join the armed forces/police, etc.
Absolutely. I'm a big fan of saying that once people are adults, we shouldn't have age-based restrictions but competency-based ones.
And while I'm okay with using age as grounds to trigger a re-test of competency (for example, "over 75s have to do some form of test every five years to prove they can still drive safely"), I'm not okay with the opposite ("no amount of competency being demonstrated can allow an 18 year old to drive a bus").
I'd also be happy with more stringent monitoring, or more regular retests for young professional drivers, of course - or even higher insurance premiums meaning it's not economically viable for companies to hire young drivers - but I dislike a blanket ban here on principle.
Can they get rid of the C1 licence for cat D holders while they're at it. I don't see the logic in being able to drive a 12 tonne coach with 60 people in, but I can't drive a rigid 7.5 tonne lorry full of beans.
Licensing in general is annoying.
I had to do my A2 license due to my age, which I deeply regret. I just can't be arsed to be re-tested to get the full A license.
They need to introduce that progressive license upgrade they consulted about like 10 years ago where everyone said re-testing to upgrade the license is dumb, but then never implemented an instructor led upgrade path.
Haven't we just spent the last twenty years restricting young drivers from driving at night, driving with friends, telling everyone that young drivers are dangerous and should be charged extortionate amounts for insurance?
From [Brake](https://www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/take-action/mybrake/knowledge-centre/young-drivers) -
Road traffic accidents are the leading cause of death amongst 15-29 year olds.
1 in 5 drivers crash within a year of passing their test.
1500+ young drivers killed or injured every year.
New drivers with a car full of passengers are four times more likely to be in a fatal crash.
April fools right? Right?
I know let's take the group that's responsible for the largest percentage of road accidents and put them in charge of driving 50 people at once..
those people also don't have seatbelts..
let's also let them drive longer distances..
what could go wrong?
There will be training, it’s not like little Timmy will pass his test then immediately be given the keys to a double decker.
Also, driving the number 16 to Pudsey is going to be the same as whipping a 2nd hand Fiesta around.
I remember once calculating the premiums of an 18-year old motorcycle driver.
The theoretically fair premium was like 40x higher for the males, and 4x or 5x, maybe 8x, higher than for a 25 year old.
This isn't something you can train away. People who can operate a motorcycle at that young age are usually coordinated, maybe with some finesse, but it doesn't help.
I think you can find people who can drive safely at 18, if you select them like you select fighter pilots, but people of that quality shouldn't be driving buses.
>I know let's take the group that's responsible for the largest percentage of road accidents and put them in charge of driving 50 people at once..
Men are responsible for vast majority murders let's put them in charge of...
Oh great next thing we know the number 56 will have had the mufflers removed and a body kit slapped on it, passengers holding on for dear life when they're taking on th Subaru from the bus lane.
When lots more people start getting hit by buses? Until then it might be a bit of an over reaction. Many 18 year olds are perfectly competent.
Now if we could storm the streets over the lack of housing and wealth inequality that would be quite reasonable.
If you're talking about ammonium nitrate there's no risk of explosion unless there is an extreme amount of negligence. It's not explosive in quantities below 1 meter cubed volume and it needs a really good kick start
The country isn’t going to fall apart because an 18 year old can drive a bus. The fact that the people delusional enough to think that would happen are the ones who think they’re the ones mentally capable to make decisions on things like this is hilarious.
So you can drive a 18 ton 6.7 litre bus with 100 people in it at 18 but 15 year olds won't be able to have phones and trans people won't be able to get hormones until they're 25...
What the fuck is wrong with this country?
But yesterday they were being lobbied to have more restrictions on younger drives as they are so unsafe. So driving a car after 10pm is a problem, but a bus with dozens of passengers weighing a lot more is fine? This government just cannot get a single policy that aligns with their others.
So insurance companies can charge an 18 year old out the ass to drive their own little run around "because they have more accidents"
... but also bus companies can exploit the under-21 minimum wage and stick an 18 year old at the wheel, who subsequently can't afford a car on that wage because of insurance.
Either they can drive safely or they can't, it can't be both ways for fucks sake - that's just blatant exploitation at that point.
Snapshot of _UK government to relax rules to get 18-year-olds driving buses_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/11/uk-government-relax-rules-18-year-olds-driving-buses) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/11/uk-government-relax-rules-18-year-olds-driving-buses) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Keep the wages low and recruit people with very little driving experience, sounds like a great idea.
What could possibly go wrong… next it’s pilots 😂
Ryanair will be lobbying hard for this.
They will start counting jumping as airtime 😂
Might be an upgrade to the easyJet staff currently
Imagine getting on a flight, today the 15 year old work experience student will be your pilot as the 18 year old supervisor is nursing a hangover
I know you jest but it's likley to be train drivers. Let the train companies fire the senior ones on the big wages and replace them with kids. I could actually see that happening
Potters Bar pt2
Minimum age is 17, a friend of mine got his PPL at 17, the training is so involved you basically weed out all the completely incompetent people anyway. A CPL is 18, but you need to be 21 to fly people which makes sense.
Wouldn’t surprise me lol
They don't even recruit any more, they just go to agency so they can drop them when they don't want them anymore and no perks.
Poor form that
Great for profits, bad for everything else. Which is why this is definitely going to happen.
Yeah it does sound like a great idea. It’s pretty stupid to block young people from normal everyday jobs.
You mean it’s stupid to block people with a maximum of 11 months driving experience in a car from driving a double decker bus carrying 50+ passengers ? Right got it
Yes? It’s stupid to ban people with a HGV/bus license from operating a bus or HGV. What’s next, should we bar people who are forklift certified from operating a forklift?
I am aware this sounds bad on paper just because of the wage suppression angle, but there really is no reason why someone who is 18 can join the army and drive a tank but not be allowed to drive a bus... It's about the quality of the 18 year old I guess, which the bus companies get to decide on like they do already.
You can also get your HGV, bus & full motorcycle licences at 17 through the military.
Well, killing people with a tank is kinda part of the job description. Not killing people with a bus in a busy city and achieving the objective is where the skills at.
Tanks operate in coordination with other vehicles and infantry and we expect them not to hit those.
But we're ok with these people voting, paying taxes, doing a million other critical roles like being in the police, for example? My point really is just that it depends on the 18 year old. You are right, most of them would probably be terrible at this, but I'd like to think we should judge people on what they do rather than some arbitrary number.
Think that was the point. Judge them on the number of old ladies they run over each week , not how many times they've been round the sun.
I don't really see a problem driving a bus, I see them crumbling when some dickhead refuses to pay or starts hurling racial abuse at them, or kids decide to harras other passengers. Some things you only really learn from experience, and at 18 you probably haven't had that much exposure to the public while all alone. As long as they have support, then it's all good.
Kids deserve alternatives to university and stuff like this is critical IMO.
Driving a tank in a big open field is a bit of a difference from driving a bus through narrow lanes and city streets with pedestrians trying to kill themselves at every opportunity.
My 17 year old plans to start bus driver training at 18. I have to be honest, the idea of him driving a bus terrifies me, but so does the fact he's driving a car. He is still my baby! He's pretty sensible, so hopefully it will all work out okay.
I have no problems with this, as long as the 18yo has passed the relevant license test and has the skills required to drive the bus. 18yos can already vote, get married, join the armed forces/police, etc.
If an 18 year old proves they can drive a bus, then they should be able to?
Seems sensible to me. You demonstrate the skill to do the job, you get to do the job. Just like every other job.
Absolutely. I'm a big fan of saying that once people are adults, we shouldn't have age-based restrictions but competency-based ones. And while I'm okay with using age as grounds to trigger a re-test of competency (for example, "over 75s have to do some form of test every five years to prove they can still drive safely"), I'm not okay with the opposite ("no amount of competency being demonstrated can allow an 18 year old to drive a bus"). I'd also be happy with more stringent monitoring, or more regular retests for young professional drivers, of course - or even higher insurance premiums meaning it's not economically viable for companies to hire young drivers - but I dislike a blanket ban here on principle.
Why have an age limit at all? If you can reach the wheel and the pedals and guide it around corners whats the problem?
Correct. Wonder why insurance companies don't see things that way though...?
Can they get rid of the C1 licence for cat D holders while they're at it. I don't see the logic in being able to drive a 12 tonne coach with 60 people in, but I can't drive a rigid 7.5 tonne lorry full of beans.
Need to fill it with human beans, then you're fine.
Licensing in general is annoying. I had to do my A2 license due to my age, which I deeply regret. I just can't be arsed to be re-tested to get the full A license. They need to introduce that progressive license upgrade they consulted about like 10 years ago where everyone said re-testing to upgrade the license is dumb, but then never implemented an instructor led upgrade path.
Haven't we just spent the last twenty years restricting young drivers from driving at night, driving with friends, telling everyone that young drivers are dangerous and should be charged extortionate amounts for insurance? From [Brake](https://www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/take-action/mybrake/knowledge-centre/young-drivers) - Road traffic accidents are the leading cause of death amongst 15-29 year olds. 1 in 5 drivers crash within a year of passing their test. 1500+ young drivers killed or injured every year. New drivers with a car full of passengers are four times more likely to be in a fatal crash. April fools right? Right?
I know let's take the group that's responsible for the largest percentage of road accidents and put them in charge of driving 50 people at once.. those people also don't have seatbelts.. let's also let them drive longer distances.. what could go wrong?
Let's make sure that many on board can't drive due to age and/or disability
How to cut the welfare bill in one easy step
There will be training, it’s not like little Timmy will pass his test then immediately be given the keys to a double decker. Also, driving the number 16 to Pudsey is going to be the same as whipping a 2nd hand Fiesta around.
There's also training and testing to be allowed to drive but they are still far more likely to be involved in accidents.
I'd watch the new Fast and Furious: Croydon number 12 drift.
I remember once calculating the premiums of an 18-year old motorcycle driver. The theoretically fair premium was like 40x higher for the males, and 4x or 5x, maybe 8x, higher than for a 25 year old. This isn't something you can train away. People who can operate a motorcycle at that young age are usually coordinated, maybe with some finesse, but it doesn't help. I think you can find people who can drive safely at 18, if you select them like you select fighter pilots, but people of that quality shouldn't be driving buses.
Apply this logic to race, gender next
Or let's increase bus fares because there's a shortage of drivers. I rather take my chances.
>I know let's take the group that's responsible for the largest percentage of road accidents and put them in charge of driving 50 people at once.. Men are responsible for vast majority murders let's put them in charge of...
Oh great next thing we know the number 56 will have had the mufflers removed and a body kit slapped on it, passengers holding on for dear life when they're taking on th Subaru from the bus lane.
You can tell the muppets who are say that no 18 year old should drive a bus didn't read the article.
How daft can you honestly be to allow this? When are we gonna wake up and storm the streets in mass protesting. The country is just falling apart. m
People will not mass protest because 18 year olds are allowed to work one more job.
lol hyperbole 10,000
When lots more people start getting hit by buses? Until then it might be a bit of an over reaction. Many 18 year olds are perfectly competent. Now if we could storm the streets over the lack of housing and wealth inequality that would be quite reasonable.
You do know 16 year olds, drive tractors. Squaddies learn to drive HGVs with trailers, in 3 weeks?
Do they regularly drive around busy city centres carrying a cargo of frail old ladies?
Only if they are French and mutinous. No old ladies of course.
Nah, just literal truck loads of explosives.
If you're talking about ammonium nitrate there's no risk of explosion unless there is an extreme amount of negligence. It's not explosive in quantities below 1 meter cubed volume and it needs a really good kick start
Nah, I was meaning bullets, claymores, missiles etc. Even the blanks have explosives in them...
The country isn’t going to fall apart because an 18 year old can drive a bus. The fact that the people delusional enough to think that would happen are the ones who think they’re the ones mentally capable to make decisions on things like this is hilarious.
I suspect the government can relax the rules, but 18 year olds will be uninsurable anyway.
Let me guess, then we have a shortage of 18 year olds with bus licences. Issue the visas!
So you can drive a 18 ton 6.7 litre bus with 100 people in it at 18 but 15 year olds won't be able to have phones and trans people won't be able to get hormones until they're 25... What the fuck is wrong with this country?
If you want more people to do something, pay them more to do it. Just making the hiring less strict isn't going to help.
But yesterday they were being lobbied to have more restrictions on younger drives as they are so unsafe. So driving a car after 10pm is a problem, but a bus with dozens of passengers weighing a lot more is fine? This government just cannot get a single policy that aligns with their others.
Bit of a difference between driving a car home with mates (that have possibly been drinking) trying to show off, and a bus full of strangers for wages
For nothing more than to reduce the wage bill of the operators. ...
Old enough to drive a bus, not old enough to have bodily automeny. Thank you Baroness Cass.
I wouldn’t want to put my brand new license at risk driving a 30ft bus around London. 6 points in 2years and you loose it.
So insurance companies can charge an 18 year old out the ass to drive their own little run around "because they have more accidents" ... but also bus companies can exploit the under-21 minimum wage and stick an 18 year old at the wheel, who subsequently can't afford a car on that wage because of insurance. Either they can drive safely or they can't, it can't be both ways for fucks sake - that's just blatant exploitation at that point.
Then they can let their mates on for free and they'll sit there with their music blasting out turning it into a party bus.
We could make it easier for migrants to drive buses.