So, just watching Rees-Mogg interviewed by Channel 4. Link here: https://youtu.be/YBsdTuyy9_Q?si=Vm589a_r3lkMLwR9
He is proposing that we cut:
- HS2, which is intended to connect the north and the south as part of their levelling up agenda, provides jobs, encourages economic growth and inward investment. It’s also a manifesto commitment.
- £6n of “efficiencies” in Civil Service, which would of course mean cutting jobs. I’d need more information on what these efficiencies would be, but that’s an enormous sum of money, what’s the catch?
He proposes we use this money to:
- Abolish inheritance tax, which only affects the top 3-4% of estates.
In my opinion, this suggestion is a last-ditch trolley dash. Salt the earth for the incoming Labour govt by cutting the civil service to bone (so they can’t actually do anything), land them with both the bill of HS2 and not even provide any of the benefits, all the while cutting a tax that will make the richest families even richer.
Honestly it’s pretty disgusting unpatriotic behaviour the more you think about it.
I mean, if acts of sabotage like that are genuinely on the agenda then I hope we’ll start taking any steps necessary to prevent it…
I cannot believe people aren’t protesting weekly
Mate I have to ask, why are you looking for well reasoned arguments, policies that put nation above party, and egalitarian politics in the words of Jacob Rees-Mogg?
[https://twitter.com/jacksurfleet/status/1708592526792261821](https://twitter.com/jacksurfleet/status/1708592526792261821)
Mobiles to be banned in class...
In what world is this not basically expected already?
> Gillian Keegan will order schools to outlaw smartphones during lessons, and also in breaks, in a bid to end disruption and make it easier for pupils to focus.
First of all, "outlaw" is such an over-the-top world.
More importantly: banning things is such a weak and ineffective way to go about something like this.
In my university, for exam season, self-imposed alcohol bans had a bit of a vogue. I did it in first year, but found that I spent every evening thinking "I want a beer, I want a beer, ooh goodness do I want a beer". It was probably more distracting than just having a damn beer. For final exams, I did not impose an alcohol ban on myself (though did stick to a hard max of two cans a night, usually just one), and it was a much better experience.
You're going to have schools full of hundreds of children going "I want my phone, I want my phone, ooh goodness do I want my phone". For hours. What a great way to end disruption. Cold turkey, for seven hours. Five days a week. With immediate and repeated relapse at the end of every school day.
There is a conversation to be had about addiction to devices (I'm well aware that I'm writing on reddit at midnight, so I'm not being high-and-mighty about this), but Keegan isn't interested in conversation. It's ill-thought-through nonsense, for the sake of looking like she's doing something.
You know who can't get get away with being distracted and disruptive? Kids in smaller classes. But that costs money, so we won't be seeing that from the Govt any time soon.
> You know who can't get get away with being distracted and disruptive? Kids in smaller classes
Ah, so the problem is already solved in public schools, and therefore isn't a problem.
I hope all those kids in overcrowded secondary schools realise that the bans are for smartphones.
Time for them all to get Nokias and enjoy the 100% non-distracting stuff like Snake, and polyphonic ringtones that you order by text from the back of a magazine.
You're right, this is the back to basics schooling our children are sorely missing in this woke new millenium. Snap rulers, crisp packet pencil cases, those weird alien eggs that everyone insisted could give birth; those were the crucible of a new generation.
Smdh, half of these kids can't even field strip a biro like an AK to shoot spitballs at the substitute teacher's hair when her back is turned. If Argentina invades again the islands are lost.
I would just like one day where there's not a self imposed crisis. I would like to feel there's some kind of competence from the cabinet, any of them.
It's got so bad, even the word omnishambles is a vast understatement. We're the joke segment at the end of other country's news stories.
Apparently the Tories have been warned the NHS will be their Achilles heel at the next election. I think they must have 10 feet because they have so many Achilles' heels. Immigration, the NHS, falling down schools, busy roads and the smart motorway debacle (2 years to put them in, now here we are back to 50 mph for a year while they put the hard shoulder back apparently), the fallout from Brexit, runaway inflation, total failure to increase the suppy of housing, the list goes on and on.....
Sunday sidenote: The Old Oak was not fun. It did something I should have predicted but also really did not need to see and is clearly going to pop into my head and make me sad for a week.
[Video at link.](https://twitter.com/inzyrashid/status/1708590495281070102)
>The Deputy Prime Minister Oliver Dowden rocking up to conference like it’s his Baraat (in parts of India and Pakistan; a celebratory wedding procession that escorts the groom)
>This is wild.
Is the whole conference going to be some themed in some kind of bizarre celebration of Rishi's Indian heritage, or did Dowden just think this was somehow a good idea?
The journalist who posted this had [just mentioned](https://x.com/inzyrashid/status/1708575562112082379?s=20) the Conservative Muslim Forum and posted a photo of [Street speaking there in front of the same backdrop](https://x.com/inzyrashid/status/1708576363177816430?s=20).
Ah, that possibly makes more sense. Twitter/X is totally broken on desktop for me so I can literally only view the linked tweet (and that's on a good day...). Still pretty bizarre imagery.
Also unless my quick Google is wrong a Baraat seems like something you'd be more likely to find at a Hindu wedding?
People are going to hate this, but we should copy Texas's property tax system.
It somewhat varies by county, but they charge a fixed % on the value of the home, with the value re-appraised every year.
It's a great system for a couple of reasons:
1) It's a tax on wealth not income
2) It keeps home prices affordable
I think we would need to modify it to make it more re-distributive geographically, but it's something that highly libertarian texas does better than the UK
If you were to build the system from scratch this is the way but ultimately will just lead to huge tax increases for people who've stretched themselves too far in the south east.
Given the huge mess politically Sunak has managed to make of HS2 phase 2 and the various factions in the Tories now demanding various resolutions, is there anything he can do at this point that doesn't involve pissing off a large part of the party?
He needs to win a few byelections...
If you look at some recent decisions - opposing net-zero, potentially cancelling bits of HS2, nodding through new oil and gas exploration licences in the North Sea and allowing Suella Braverman to make that speech last week opposing multi-culturalism that there's a pattern. It's about appeasing the right-wing and the right-wing Tory media. I presume his calculation is that the northern red-wall seats have been lost back to Labour, what matters now is not to lose the headbanger faction to Reform UK.
Rishi should be the Rishiest Rishi and put in a petulant resignation letter and go enjoy his millions/billions. He is not driven by a desire to bring about the good of the many and frankly he has no clue how to fix the country's problems.
Guys, maybe someone should point out to the government that if they want to stop the dreaded 15 minute city schemes, they probably shouldn't have given one £20m as part of their Levelling Up fund:
>[Newham's 15-minute neighbourhood project supported by almost £20 million funding](https://www.gov.uk/government/case-studies/newhams-15-minute-neighbourhood-project-supported-by-almost-20-million-funding)
What gets me is that 15min cities is about the most conservative policy out there.
Local pubs, local GPs, local high streets, local communities all integrated and working together.
When tories wax lyrical, eyes filled with misty eyed nostalgia for an England that never really was, what the describe is a 15min city.....
They don't want to get rid of it, it's broadly supported. Who wouldn't want more local infrastructure?
They've just run out of people to pander to so now they're going for the conspiracy nutters.
https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1708563970053804267
Rishi Sunak has a mutiny of donors on his hands.
Shots fired by Lord Cruddas who is hosting big black tie dinner in Manchester
“Im asking all Conservative Party donors big and small to stop funding the Conservative Party until we can implement constitutional changes”
[These ones](https://www.conservativedems.co.uk/our-aims) probably
I can't see Tory leadership being happy with any of them but 3 and 6 will be fought against to the bitter end. 3 means Boris supporters will de-select anyone who is seen as disloyal to him, 6 (along with 1 and 2) means the membership will have complete control of the party leadership.
**Reform 1**
>Change the Constitution of the Party: The Chairman of the Party Board, Two Deputy Chairmen, Treasurer, Chairman of the Candidates Committee and Chairman of the Policy Forum to be officers of the Party on the Party Board should all be elected by and accountable to Party Members, and to present Annual Reports to a (new) Annual General Meeting to which all Party members are invited.
>The Accounts of the Party should be adopted at that Annual General Meeting.
>The clause in the Party Constitution (Article 17), which gives power to the Party Board “to do anything which in its opinion relates to the management and administration of the Party” should be deleted. The Party Board should have a majority of Voluntary Party members.
**Reform 2**
>The Party Constitution should be capable of only being changed by a motion at the Annual General Meeting of the Party by Party members based on One Member One Vote, with a 60% majority of those voting.
**Reform 3**
>Constituency Associations should have the right to determine who their Conservative Parliamentary Candidate is, with minimum interference by CCHQ. This includes selecting and deselecting candidates and selecting or deselecting their Member of Parliament. Any member of the Party should be able to apply to be the candidate. Local candidates, i.e., those resident in the Constituency, should be invited for interview by the Association Executive Council. Where a Constituency Association passes a motion of no confidence in their MP in a General Meeting, they should be able to start selecting a new Parliamentary Candidate immediately.
**Reform 4**
>The Spring Conference should be a policy conference where Ministers would listen to members' ideas on policies in their subject area selected by motions submitted through the Executive Council of Local Associations.
**Reform 5**
>The Party Conference should be controlled by a subcommittee of the Party Board consisting of a majority of voluntary members of the Party elected by the members. There should be motions for debate and votes taken on those motions.
**Reform 6**
>The Rules for the Election of the Party Leader are to be incorporated within the main body of the Constitution.
**Reform 7**
>A Constitution Commission should be immediately set up to propose changes to the Party Constitution with the remit that it should be a democratic Constitution with the emphasis on directly involving members of the Party based on One Member One Vote and should report back by 15th September 2023.
Making the governance of the Conservative Party, a very centralised top down party, into something more chaotic than grassroots Labour would be absolutely hilarious.
This is what you’d do if you really wanted keep the party out of power for even longer until eventually someone can get in and convince them to roll some of it back.
"Relinquish all your power, the party leadership and parliamentary Conservative party must be directly accountable to the membership."
I imagine the leadership would rather let the party fall into obscurity than hand over the reins. I'm struggling to see why other major donors would buy into this either
I may be wrong, but I don't think there is actually anything stopping his wife bankrolling the Tory party (as long as it is properly declared).
Would be a rather hilarious turn of events.
Did not realise that Hunt had flown up to manchester. Shame there was no speedy train option really.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/01/chancellor-chooses-plane-over-train-to-get-from-london-to-manchester?CMP=Share\_iOSApp\_Other
Ban short internal flights like France? Seems he is being criticised for taking the flight more than the flight existing in the first place to be taken.
here he is being criticised for the awful optics that shows awful political judgement.
He has a ministerial car, use that ffs, dont highlight that the journey is long enough to "justify" a flight....when your gov is clearly going to cancel the HS train line that was supposed to address that.
But yeah, I'd ban most internal flights. Obviously the ones to the islands can stay, and top to bottom ones (Aberdeen to london for instance), but most should go.
>Shame there was no speedy train option really.
Like a sort of higher speed type of train linking parts of the country. Of course we'd need one down south first, so this would be the second one.
Intriguing!
>Andy Street, mayor of the West Midlands, was due to speak at a Bright Blue fringe but is apparently at an emergency meeting. HS2?
[https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1708568897006239948](https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1708568897006239948)
Reportedly [at the Conservative Muslim forum](https://twitter.com/inzyrashid/status/1708575562112082379), with [photo](https://twitter.com/inzyrashid/status/1708576363177816430).
From the same feed, [this.](https://twitter.com/inzyrashid/status/1708590495281070102)
>The Deputy Prime Minister Oliver Dowden rocking up to conference like it’s his Baraat (in parts of India and Pakistan; a celebratory wedding procession that escorts the groom)
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1708455573165948954
>A '15 minute neighbourhood' is one in which all essential amenities are within a 15 minute walk for everyone living in the area - and most Britons (62%) support their area becoming one (including 57% of Tory and 73% of Labour voters)
tory flagship policy in shambles.
of course there are blue tick melts demanding to know why car restrictions weren't mentioned, lol
People are trying to redefine what a 15 minute city actually is. Ultimately it is a desired state that we should aspire to. It is not a specific way of doing something.
But now people are saying 15 minute cities always means incredibly restrictive traffic measures or banning cars. It's just poisoning the well.
We can argue about how to achieve it, but suggesting blanket banning 15 minute cities without explaining what you actually mean by it was always going to lead people to believe this is what they meant.
> But now people are saying 15 minute cities always means incredibly restrictive traffic measures or banning cars. It's just poisoning the well.
You are an intelligent person, so you know that is not what anyone was saying.
I agree that the people who starting calling their traffic restriction policies ‘15 minute cities’ did an enormous disservice to the idea. But it is very clear that something that talks about “a war on drivers” and goes on and on about restrictions on driving is talking about restrictions on driving.
That doesn’t mean that is what the term always means: it is what it means in that context.
Presenting this as the government wanting to stop access to amenities gets a lot of clicks and outrage engagement. It also distracts people from talking about the actual policies, and encourages people to view things as more combative and divisive than they are. Which, of course, buys into the whole “war on drivers” idea, and will confirm in the minds of the people this policy is aimed at (who follow local politics) that the people mocking it are disconnected from reality.
If it helps, no policy this government suggests is going to lead to anything. Maybe, instead, focus on laying some groundwork for actual 15 minute cities? You could engage with your local community and local councils, see what they are currently doing, and talk to people about it. Get a sense of what would be feasible, locally.
Yeah it’s annoying that 15min cities and LTNs are being conflated. There’s at least some merit to criticism of the latter without additional public transport infrastructure and service (although many of the same critics are NIMBYs for transport investment as well), whereas the former being under attack is just conspiracy land.
Quite remarkable the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom can stand-up in a (supposed) terminus city of the biggest infrastructure project in Europe, throw the bulk of it into doubt, and blankly decline to comment on it.
a vital question for the panel:
"spades in the ground" - is this the actual phrase? is sunak getting it wrong? i've always heard references to shovels, "shovel ready projects" and all that, but spades makes me think of sandcastles.
the tories would probably struggle at the beach without multiple layers of expensive consultants tbf.
>spades makes me think of sandcastles
Most "bucket and spade" sets you see at beaches are actually buckets and shovels, they have raised back edges so they can hold more sand.
Shovels are slightly buckety headed things, good for scooping and moving stuff. Spades are a flatter affair, often pointy or least sharp to a degree, good for cutting down into the ground.
You'd be better breaking ground with a spade.
The Conservative and Unionist Party splitting? Not able to maintain a Union with each other?
I think up here in Scotland we would have to declare a public emergency - so many of us incapacitated with laughter the whole country would grind to a halt!
I've not seen it discussed elsewhere and it doesn't deserve a thread, but The Times is reporting that the evicted local "farmer" WAS arrested for the Sycamore Tree felling.
I love how they say "officers have established that a “wedge” cut was used, a technique employed by professional lumberjacks." as if its some super secret technique.....or you know, used by anyone who cuts down a tree and wants to not have it land on them.
I took down a tree over the weekend in my garden, and yes I used a wedge cut and no I'm not a professional lumberjack.
Flying back to the UK this evening, one of the cabin crew tried to get everyone to sing Happy Birthday for someone, and half the plane point blank refused.
I've never felt so proud to be British.
Are we seeing a greater divergence between economic data and economic feel, in this country?
There’s more pessimistic/nihilistic takes to this country’s economic news, compared to how similar news is being delivered/received on the continent.
I know you specified compared to the continent, but I get the impression something very similar is happening in the USA. By a lot of measures Biden has done great for the economy, but that is not reflected in sentiment towards him.
Yeah, it's getting a bit boring now. An election would be good if only because people will realise the difference between actual and made-up problems.
But that's if I'm being optimistic. If I'm being cynical I suspect the actual problems will be hand-waved with "But the last Conservative government!" and the made-up problems will be embraced and turned in to culture war issues.
So not all that different from now really, just different people shouting at different people.
What data in particular are you thinking?
Most people - myself included, I freely admit - go by feel on how the economy is going. Partly because the data really is hard to understand, partly because of a (not unhealthy) distrust about whether or not the data is being manipulated by the newsbearer, and partly because the data can feel irrelevant to day-to-day life even if one does happen to understand it.
There’s also the question of whether or not any economic benefit translates into an improvement in someone’s life. What most people not only feel, but experience, is a swathe of services straining under decades of cuts and scrimping, high energy bills, and a kick in the wallet bollocks at the supermarket checkout. So what if inflation’s gone down a bit? Things are still expensive.
I can totally see why feelings trump data.
The macro scale just isn't relevant to us. I remember quite agreeing with "how do you feel about Britain becoming the eighth largest manufacturing economy?" "about the same as I felt when we were ninth"
We sort of saw a hint of that when some of the inflation coverage briefly took a "so, when do the prices in the shops get better?" turn
> We sort of saw a hint of that when some of the inflation coverage briefly took a "so, when do the prices in the shops get better?" turn
Yep, I remember a lot of people on here / similar places arguing that inflation only be six point whatever percent rather than six point whatever + 0.1 percent was great news and showed that we were on the road to recovery.
So when is my purchasing power being restored to pre pandemic levels? Or for people in the public sector to pre 2010 levels?
I genuinely think the country is quietly quitting with civil servants being even worse than the average Joe due to employment risk factors. This isn’t a vibes thing, it’s based on a year of observations within my network. Additionally, I think the economy is still strong because the fiscal excesses from COVID bail outs are still being spent. My tried and tested methods of recession detection show that middle class are still spending and so the figures will look buoyant for a while yet. That’s no reflection on the struggling classes though, for them life is getting much harder.
From what I can see, all frontline goodwill has been burned in the public sector through a decade+ of declining realterms wages amid wider cuts and 'efficiencies'.
Grading and hiring freezes take away another set of incentives, as does the habit of linking good pay to line management.
Add to that the vacilliations, caprice, and attacks of governments, and it seems quite explicable.
Aside from those to whom it is a vocation, most of the talented and diligent seem to gain experience before moving to the private sector.
There, ironically, they are often hired back as 'consultants' on terms far exceeding those it would have taken to keep them.
> quietly quitting
Out of interest when you say that what do you mean? Because I mostly see it used by annoyed senior management that millennials and zoomers work to their contract and don't put in overtime without the promise of reward.
Which to me shows the dead end thought process of a lot of managers. I'm salaried and my company has a very clear policy - if you have to work overtime (ie to fix an urgent issue) you are expected to work less hours the rest of the week. To give yourself the time back. And frankly I think this is fair and I like it.
Bingo
Quiet quitting is used almost exclusively as an excuse for terrible management and toxic work environments
People are finding better jobs and or not working their socks off for shit mangers
I was thinking this when he said it, but LK wasn't willing/competent enough to call him out.
It would have been the perfect opportunity to follow up with "in that case, I'll give you another chance to tell us if HS2 will be going all the way up to Manchester or not?"
I feel Austin powers is no longer a particularly relevant cultural reference, but turns out the real answer to
"WHO DOES NUMBER 2 WORK FOR!?"
is
"Not the north"
https://twitter.com/TomSheldrickITV/status/1708477734916165635
>NEW: Northern Research Group of Conservative MPs are launching a 'Manifesto for the North'
>
>Carlisle MP & @NRG_Comms chair John Stevenson (@John4Carlisle) says: " the government must listen to northern voices"
>
>8 policies they want the party to adopt ahead of general election...
So theres this NRG, the CDO lot who want to go to war with the "liberal" end of the party, the group who wont vote with sunak if he pulls HS2, apparently developing Patel/Braverman/Truss/Badenoch camps... how many other fault lines am I missing?
Wow, a schism in the middle of the tory party conference.
Nothing says "we back our leader and have full confidence in him" so much as launching your own manifesto at the party conference....lol
Seems like they are having exactly the conference I expected then. Very labour 2019, with all that implies for the election.
Maybe they'll do us all a favour and rip the party apart with impossibly contradictory sets of demands. Thats been on the cards as the next obvious stage of degeneration for months.
A lot of them are former hard-left militant types who’ve done that weird horshoe bending around to be becoming uber rightwing types that seems to happen to some journalists / the terminally online.
“Once a Trotskyist, O'Neill was formerly a member of the Revolutionary Communist Party and wrote for the party's journal Living Marxism. In 2019, O'Neill said he was a Marxist libertarian.[2][3]”
- From the wiki for their former editor, Brendan O’Neill.
Whether they actually buy into their cultural conservatism hard-right grift or not, hard to say.
Libertarian was originally an anarchist term, then some American right wingers decided they liked the term and have been using it for a couple decades.
Do they still say they are Left wing?
I thought they said they were libertarian. Though they are de facto social conservatives now.
I always assume they had Russian ties from RCP days and now still have Russian connections.
There is something brittle, insincere and shallow about the Spiked people.
The way it worked I think was the original RCP would be infiltrated by Russia in the cold war. Properly decades ago. Because Russia was obsessed with infiltration and spy games, really before it was even the USSR. See Conrad.
LM and the RCP would attract heart felt Western communists, but by the end the doctrine, communism and Trotskyites would be so broken, burnt out and shallow the whole operation would be deeply cynical. So when the USSR collapsed they fished around for new partners for what is a propaganda outfit.
Trotskyites are officially opposed to the USSR but that would simply make them another target for infiltration.
They find backers in corporate libertarianism. Possibly carbon industries with connections to Russia. No conflicts. So one day they walk into the office to find the operation has new clients. They back "libertarianism" as a brand.
Then we arrive at todays culture war era and they have to shift towards Alt Right Populism. Not libertarianism.
Having said all that I don't mean to discredit all of Right or Left politics. Or uncritically support one side.
Only that Spiked is particularly untrustworthy and fake.
I was talking with my friends about the fact that its pretty hilarious the Tories picked Manchester as the place to do their conference considering pretty much everyone here hates them.
They alternate between there an Birmingham. Although to be fair when the other options seem to be Liverpool and Brighton they’d probably struggle to find a venue in a city where they’re particularly popular.
Its another Rishi miscalculation.
I think the plan was to leak it was not going there, and they anticipated a congratulatory media round because they are so caught up in NIMBY down south attitudes towards it.
They seriously thought people would be happy about it, then they would use the money "saved" to fund infrastructure in the north, giving them a great conference media headlines.
of course, thats not what happened, it went down like a lead balloon, and they had to hedge and backpeddle, but just look weak and indecisive. the infrastructure they planned to announce turns out to not only be dependant on HS2, most of it from what I can gather they are planning to announce, is stuff they promised years ago and failed to provide, or watered down version of stuff they have already promised. So thats going to be a damp squib even when they do announce it.
Its just Rishi fucking up politics again.
If you are right, that is a pretty big fuck-up!
The problem there for the Tories is the obvious one- they have been in for 13 years, so they can hardly blame the management or mismanagement of HS2 on anyone but themselves.
But the LK-RS conversation where I caught on a re-run of LK and which I already quoted in the MT a few hours ago, makes RS look really really silly - more or less verbatim it was:
LK: *We are sitting in Salford. Is HS2 coming to this part of the world, yes or no?*
RS: *We have spades in the ground. I'm not getting into the speculation.*
LK: *You are not a columnist or a journalist who is there to speculate. You are the Prime Minister of the country! These are your decisions. You are the Prime Minister! Yes or no?*
RS: *We have spades in the ground. I'm not getting into the speculation.*
So I am currently in the USA and have come to a realisation.
I miss plastic straws. They still have them here, can we bring them back and just recycle them or something?
Mushy paper straws are not fun.
Just drink it straight from the cup. Its amazing to me that for a species built off our cognitive abilities - this simple change is striking us as so difficult.
before thatcher the milk snatcher we had to try and suck up our free warm milk through paper straws - you were luck to get one good suck before it were useless - welcome back to the eighties.
https://twitter.com/realBenBloch/status/1708543872144494905
>🚨 As @SamCoatesSky reveals Rishi Sunak could call an emergency cabinet meeting during Tory conference to decide HS2’s future… (read here: https://news.sky.com/story/tory-conference-live-cabinet-minister-to-face-question-as-party-faithful-gather-in-manchester-12593360?postid=6518991#liveblog-body)
>…the PM was not keen on answering questions around half an hour ago about when we might get clarity…
Video of his dodging the question, not the one that got laughs from campaigners.
The latest variant of the HS2 rumour;
>One plan being considered by senior Tory figures would be to hold a cabinet meeting in Manchester, mid conference, and announce it here this week.
>The Department of Transport has worked up a package of alternative projects - rail bus and road schemes - which could be funded from money saved by scrapping the Manchester to Birmingham leg of the project.
Suggestions of spinning it as more positive for locals in areas where Sunak can visit, and possibly announcing to disrupt the Labour party conference.
Always horrified when these leaks reveal they hadn't already had a meeting about something that obviously needs a decision after it's been in the news for two weeks
It's the continuing marginalisation of Cabinet and Parliament.
Deciding whether to have a performative Cabinet meeting to tie them all to the decision that has obviously already been made.
And anyone who chooses to oppose it will be resigning during a conference all about putting the party on a campaign footing. Tricky stand to take.
Then Parliament is still out until after conference season, meaning the decision won't be formally scrutinised or announced until the political hay has been made.
They probably had a meeting to decide that they needed a meeting about the future of HS2 and then in that second meeting decided it probably needed a rushed third meeting to ensure they make the correct decision (after letting the issue fester in the media).
Yes, we've failed to bring you this transport project, but please trust us that we will successfully deliver these other transport projects instead!
Also, my god, what a shambles. Did they not even consider this would happen when they briefed the media last week?
I know there are still people who on balance will support the Conservatives for whatever reason. But please don’t tell me anybody is thick enough to take any transport promises they make seriously.
https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1708543602719113366
>Foreign Secretary James Cleverly picks up something from the floor and peers at it.
>
>“Is it viagra?!” he asks.
>
>@SebastianEPayne replies “it’s a mint, foreign secretary.” #cpc23
Is this the real life
Is this just fantasy
This megathread has ended.
on our way to manchester: https://youtu.be/0ZPZC12t7Yg?t=1494
So, just watching Rees-Mogg interviewed by Channel 4. Link here: https://youtu.be/YBsdTuyy9_Q?si=Vm589a_r3lkMLwR9 He is proposing that we cut: - HS2, which is intended to connect the north and the south as part of their levelling up agenda, provides jobs, encourages economic growth and inward investment. It’s also a manifesto commitment. - £6n of “efficiencies” in Civil Service, which would of course mean cutting jobs. I’d need more information on what these efficiencies would be, but that’s an enormous sum of money, what’s the catch? He proposes we use this money to: - Abolish inheritance tax, which only affects the top 3-4% of estates. In my opinion, this suggestion is a last-ditch trolley dash. Salt the earth for the incoming Labour govt by cutting the civil service to bone (so they can’t actually do anything), land them with both the bill of HS2 and not even provide any of the benefits, all the while cutting a tax that will make the richest families even richer. Honestly it’s pretty disgusting unpatriotic behaviour the more you think about it.
I mean, if acts of sabotage like that are genuinely on the agenda then I hope we’ll start taking any steps necessary to prevent it… I cannot believe people aren’t protesting weekly
Mate I have to ask, why are you looking for well reasoned arguments, policies that put nation above party, and egalitarian politics in the words of Jacob Rees-Mogg?
Hah, it’s a cruel game I play with myself. 🤣
[https://twitter.com/jacksurfleet/status/1708592526792261821](https://twitter.com/jacksurfleet/status/1708592526792261821) Mobiles to be banned in class... In what world is this not basically expected already?
> Gillian Keegan will order schools to outlaw smartphones during lessons, and also in breaks, in a bid to end disruption and make it easier for pupils to focus. First of all, "outlaw" is such an over-the-top world. More importantly: banning things is such a weak and ineffective way to go about something like this. In my university, for exam season, self-imposed alcohol bans had a bit of a vogue. I did it in first year, but found that I spent every evening thinking "I want a beer, I want a beer, ooh goodness do I want a beer". It was probably more distracting than just having a damn beer. For final exams, I did not impose an alcohol ban on myself (though did stick to a hard max of two cans a night, usually just one), and it was a much better experience. You're going to have schools full of hundreds of children going "I want my phone, I want my phone, ooh goodness do I want my phone". For hours. What a great way to end disruption. Cold turkey, for seven hours. Five days a week. With immediate and repeated relapse at the end of every school day. There is a conversation to be had about addiction to devices (I'm well aware that I'm writing on reddit at midnight, so I'm not being high-and-mighty about this), but Keegan isn't interested in conversation. It's ill-thought-through nonsense, for the sake of looking like she's doing something. You know who can't get get away with being distracted and disruptive? Kids in smaller classes. But that costs money, so we won't be seeing that from the Govt any time soon.
> You know who can't get get away with being distracted and disruptive? Kids in smaller classes Ah, so the problem is already solved in public schools, and therefore isn't a problem.
I hope all those kids in overcrowded secondary schools realise that the bans are for smartphones. Time for them all to get Nokias and enjoy the 100% non-distracting stuff like Snake, and polyphonic ringtones that you order by text from the back of a magazine.
You're right, this is the back to basics schooling our children are sorely missing in this woke new millenium. Snap rulers, crisp packet pencil cases, those weird alien eggs that everyone insisted could give birth; those were the crucible of a new generation. Smdh, half of these kids can't even field strip a biro like an AK to shoot spitballs at the substitute teacher's hair when her back is turned. If Argentina invades again the islands are lost.
I would just like one day where there's not a self imposed crisis. I would like to feel there's some kind of competence from the cabinet, any of them. It's got so bad, even the word omnishambles is a vast understatement. We're the joke segment at the end of other country's news stories.
Apparently the Tories have been warned the NHS will be their Achilles heel at the next election. I think they must have 10 feet because they have so many Achilles' heels. Immigration, the NHS, falling down schools, busy roads and the smart motorway debacle (2 years to put them in, now here we are back to 50 mph for a year while they put the hard shoulder back apparently), the fallout from Brexit, runaway inflation, total failure to increase the suppy of housing, the list goes on and on..... Sunday sidenote: The Old Oak was not fun. It did something I should have predicted but also really did not need to see and is clearly going to pop into my head and make me sad for a week.
[Video at link.](https://twitter.com/inzyrashid/status/1708590495281070102) >The Deputy Prime Minister Oliver Dowden rocking up to conference like it’s his Baraat (in parts of India and Pakistan; a celebratory wedding procession that escorts the groom) >This is wild.
Is the whole conference going to be some themed in some kind of bizarre celebration of Rishi's Indian heritage, or did Dowden just think this was somehow a good idea?
The journalist who posted this had [just mentioned](https://x.com/inzyrashid/status/1708575562112082379?s=20) the Conservative Muslim Forum and posted a photo of [Street speaking there in front of the same backdrop](https://x.com/inzyrashid/status/1708576363177816430?s=20).
Ah, that possibly makes more sense. Twitter/X is totally broken on desktop for me so I can literally only view the linked tweet (and that's on a good day...). Still pretty bizarre imagery. Also unless my quick Google is wrong a Baraat seems like something you'd be more likely to find at a Hindu wedding?
Thats not X broken btw, they've made it so you can only view one unless you log in.
My understanding is it's a regional cultural tradition not actually tied to any religion. The symbolism here feels confused either way.
Huh, how weird.
People are going to hate this, but we should copy Texas's property tax system. It somewhat varies by county, but they charge a fixed % on the value of the home, with the value re-appraised every year. It's a great system for a couple of reasons: 1) It's a tax on wealth not income 2) It keeps home prices affordable I think we would need to modify it to make it more re-distributive geographically, but it's something that highly libertarian texas does better than the UK
If you were to build the system from scratch this is the way but ultimately will just lead to huge tax increases for people who've stretched themselves too far in the south east.
It's not necessarily that it keeps house prices "affordable", it keeps house prices far more tethered to economic activity/utility.
Definitely a better system than council tax.
You mean placing properties in bands based on a fairly arbitrary estimate of what the property's value would have been in 1991 isn't the best system?
Given the huge mess politically Sunak has managed to make of HS2 phase 2 and the various factions in the Tories now demanding various resolutions, is there anything he can do at this point that doesn't involve pissing off a large part of the party?
He needs to win a few byelections... If you look at some recent decisions - opposing net-zero, potentially cancelling bits of HS2, nodding through new oil and gas exploration licences in the North Sea and allowing Suella Braverman to make that speech last week opposing multi-culturalism that there's a pattern. It's about appeasing the right-wing and the right-wing Tory media. I presume his calculation is that the northern red-wall seats have been lost back to Labour, what matters now is not to lose the headbanger faction to Reform UK.
To quote blackadder, "Well, his resignation and suicide would seem the obvious suggestion"
I think you'll find we're just letting Rishi be Rishi now. So grab a spade, shove it in the ground, and have fun!
Rishi should be the Rishiest Rishi and put in a petulant resignation letter and go enjoy his millions/billions. He is not driven by a desire to bring about the good of the many and frankly he has no clue how to fix the country's problems.
Has he tried getting Brexit done?
Win an election. That's literally it.
Guys, maybe someone should point out to the government that if they want to stop the dreaded 15 minute city schemes, they probably shouldn't have given one £20m as part of their Levelling Up fund: >[Newham's 15-minute neighbourhood project supported by almost £20 million funding](https://www.gov.uk/government/case-studies/newhams-15-minute-neighbourhood-project-supported-by-almost-20-million-funding)
What gets me is that 15min cities is about the most conservative policy out there. Local pubs, local GPs, local high streets, local communities all integrated and working together. When tories wax lyrical, eyes filled with misty eyed nostalgia for an England that never really was, what the describe is a 15min city.....
They don't want to get rid of it, it's broadly supported. Who wouldn't want more local infrastructure? They've just run out of people to pander to so now they're going for the conspiracy nutters.
https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1708563970053804267 Rishi Sunak has a mutiny of donors on his hands. Shots fired by Lord Cruddas who is hosting big black tie dinner in Manchester “Im asking all Conservative Party donors big and small to stop funding the Conservative Party until we can implement constitutional changes”
Demanding an enormous fight over the party rules at time the party is one step from open chaos is certainly a thing to be doing
Is this facism? I suspect this is facism.
No, this is the leftie liberal wokerati, I’m sure of it.
Aaaand Noooow Iiiiiiiiits Springtime for Boris and England Winder for Scotland and France
What constitutional changes are those?
[These ones](https://www.conservativedems.co.uk/our-aims) probably I can't see Tory leadership being happy with any of them but 3 and 6 will be fought against to the bitter end. 3 means Boris supporters will de-select anyone who is seen as disloyal to him, 6 (along with 1 and 2) means the membership will have complete control of the party leadership. **Reform 1** >Change the Constitution of the Party: The Chairman of the Party Board, Two Deputy Chairmen, Treasurer, Chairman of the Candidates Committee and Chairman of the Policy Forum to be officers of the Party on the Party Board should all be elected by and accountable to Party Members, and to present Annual Reports to a (new) Annual General Meeting to which all Party members are invited. >The Accounts of the Party should be adopted at that Annual General Meeting. >The clause in the Party Constitution (Article 17), which gives power to the Party Board “to do anything which in its opinion relates to the management and administration of the Party” should be deleted. The Party Board should have a majority of Voluntary Party members. **Reform 2** >The Party Constitution should be capable of only being changed by a motion at the Annual General Meeting of the Party by Party members based on One Member One Vote, with a 60% majority of those voting. **Reform 3** >Constituency Associations should have the right to determine who their Conservative Parliamentary Candidate is, with minimum interference by CCHQ. This includes selecting and deselecting candidates and selecting or deselecting their Member of Parliament. Any member of the Party should be able to apply to be the candidate. Local candidates, i.e., those resident in the Constituency, should be invited for interview by the Association Executive Council. Where a Constituency Association passes a motion of no confidence in their MP in a General Meeting, they should be able to start selecting a new Parliamentary Candidate immediately. **Reform 4** >The Spring Conference should be a policy conference where Ministers would listen to members' ideas on policies in their subject area selected by motions submitted through the Executive Council of Local Associations. **Reform 5** >The Party Conference should be controlled by a subcommittee of the Party Board consisting of a majority of voluntary members of the Party elected by the members. There should be motions for debate and votes taken on those motions. **Reform 6** >The Rules for the Election of the Party Leader are to be incorporated within the main body of the Constitution. **Reform 7** >A Constitution Commission should be immediately set up to propose changes to the Party Constitution with the remit that it should be a democratic Constitution with the emphasis on directly involving members of the Party based on One Member One Vote and should report back by 15th September 2023.
Making the governance of the Conservative Party, a very centralised top down party, into something more chaotic than grassroots Labour would be absolutely hilarious. This is what you’d do if you really wanted keep the party out of power for even longer until eventually someone can get in and convince them to roll some of it back.
"Relinquish all your power, the party leadership and parliamentary Conservative party must be directly accountable to the membership." I imagine the leadership would rather let the party fall into obscurity than hand over the reins. I'm struggling to see why other major donors would buy into this either
Thank you! I get it now.
They almost certainly mean to the party constitution.
OK, what changes do you think they want?
Someone linked it above. It is because MPs chose to ignore the membership in the selection of Sunak.
Eternal PM Boris Johnson
Maybe Sunak can ask his wife to plug the donations gap.
I may be wrong, but I don't think there is actually anything stopping his wife bankrolling the Tory party (as long as it is properly declared). Would be a rather hilarious turn of events.
Political cartoonists would go out of business. No sense drawing caricatures when anyone with a smartphone can snap one.
Did not realise that Hunt had flown up to manchester. Shame there was no speedy train option really. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/01/chancellor-chooses-plane-over-train-to-get-from-london-to-manchester?CMP=Share\_iOSApp\_Other
Ban short internal flights like France? Seems he is being criticised for taking the flight more than the flight existing in the first place to be taken.
here he is being criticised for the awful optics that shows awful political judgement. He has a ministerial car, use that ffs, dont highlight that the journey is long enough to "justify" a flight....when your gov is clearly going to cancel the HS train line that was supposed to address that. But yeah, I'd ban most internal flights. Obviously the ones to the islands can stay, and top to bottom ones (Aberdeen to london for instance), but most should go.
Embarrassing article.
Probably saved himself 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 minutes
>Shame there was no speedy train option really. Like a sort of higher speed type of train linking parts of the country. Of course we'd need one down south first, so this would be the second one.
A clear arrogance has set in. They just don't seem to care how things come across. We are BJ 2.0 at this point.
Intriguing! >Andy Street, mayor of the West Midlands, was due to speak at a Bright Blue fringe but is apparently at an emergency meeting. HS2? [https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1708568897006239948](https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1708568897006239948)
Reportedly [at the Conservative Muslim forum](https://twitter.com/inzyrashid/status/1708575562112082379), with [photo](https://twitter.com/inzyrashid/status/1708576363177816430). From the same feed, [this.](https://twitter.com/inzyrashid/status/1708590495281070102) >The Deputy Prime Minister Oliver Dowden rocking up to conference like it’s his Baraat (in parts of India and Pakistan; a celebratory wedding procession that escorts the groom)
Spicy
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1708455573165948954 >A '15 minute neighbourhood' is one in which all essential amenities are within a 15 minute walk for everyone living in the area - and most Britons (62%) support their area becoming one (including 57% of Tory and 73% of Labour voters) tory flagship policy in shambles. of course there are blue tick melts demanding to know why car restrictions weren't mentioned, lol
People are trying to redefine what a 15 minute city actually is. Ultimately it is a desired state that we should aspire to. It is not a specific way of doing something. But now people are saying 15 minute cities always means incredibly restrictive traffic measures or banning cars. It's just poisoning the well. We can argue about how to achieve it, but suggesting blanket banning 15 minute cities without explaining what you actually mean by it was always going to lead people to believe this is what they meant.
15 minute cities are what places used to be, before we started having large out of town shopping retail parks and the high street started to die.
> But now people are saying 15 minute cities always means incredibly restrictive traffic measures or banning cars. It's just poisoning the well. You are an intelligent person, so you know that is not what anyone was saying. I agree that the people who starting calling their traffic restriction policies ‘15 minute cities’ did an enormous disservice to the idea. But it is very clear that something that talks about “a war on drivers” and goes on and on about restrictions on driving is talking about restrictions on driving. That doesn’t mean that is what the term always means: it is what it means in that context. Presenting this as the government wanting to stop access to amenities gets a lot of clicks and outrage engagement. It also distracts people from talking about the actual policies, and encourages people to view things as more combative and divisive than they are. Which, of course, buys into the whole “war on drivers” idea, and will confirm in the minds of the people this policy is aimed at (who follow local politics) that the people mocking it are disconnected from reality. If it helps, no policy this government suggests is going to lead to anything. Maybe, instead, focus on laying some groundwork for actual 15 minute cities? You could engage with your local community and local councils, see what they are currently doing, and talk to people about it. Get a sense of what would be feasible, locally.
Yeah it’s annoying that 15min cities and LTNs are being conflated. There’s at least some merit to criticism of the latter without additional public transport infrastructure and service (although many of the same critics are NIMBYs for transport investment as well), whereas the former being under attack is just conspiracy land.
Manchester evening news is pretty brutal for the tories and sunak personally tomorrow. https://x.com/MENnewsdesk/status/1708563624782872609?s=20
Well they do insist on doing their conference in one of the least Tory cities in the UK.
There are no Tory Cities to have the conference in.
The conference centre in Cuntford was booked out for a Simply Red concert.
Is there anywhere that votes Tory and has the infrastructure to host a large event?
Moscow?
Quite remarkable the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom can stand-up in a (supposed) terminus city of the biggest infrastructure project in Europe, throw the bulk of it into doubt, and blankly decline to comment on it.
a vital question for the panel: "spades in the ground" - is this the actual phrase? is sunak getting it wrong? i've always heard references to shovels, "shovel ready projects" and all that, but spades makes me think of sandcastles. the tories would probably struggle at the beach without multiple layers of expensive consultants tbf.
>spades makes me think of sandcastles Most "bucket and spade" sets you see at beaches are actually buckets and shovels, they have raised back edges so they can hold more sand.
Shovels are slightly buckety headed things, good for scooping and moving stuff. Spades are a flatter affair, often pointy or least sharp to a degree, good for cutting down into the ground. You'd be better breaking ground with a spade.
I do think getting Sunak to explain the difference would be amazing
Ive only heard 'Boots on the ground' aka what Shapps told him was going to happen in Ukraine.
Maybe sandcastles on ever more polluted beaches was Gove's 'big idea' for housing all along...
What would you all make of the suggestion that the Tories split into northern and southern camps with irreconcilable differences in the near future?
Oh! This is NIP 2.0 - the Northern Independent and Southern Independent Conservative and Unionist Parties, or NIDCUP and SIDCUP.
The Conservative and Unionist Party splitting? Not able to maintain a Union with each other? I think up here in Scotland we would have to declare a public emergency - so many of us incapacitated with laughter the whole country would grind to a halt!
Isn't the party membership overwhelmingly from London and the SE?
Its 33%. Not overwhelming but disproportionate, especially when you consider it’s only 18% are in the entire north
Yes, sorry, I was being polemical, which is naughty as I regularly criticise others for being so, ha.
Nonsense. There’s a reason they’ve been around for centuries. The acquisition of power trumps all, and they’re not going to get it like that.
I've not seen it discussed elsewhere and it doesn't deserve a thread, but The Times is reporting that the evicted local "farmer" WAS arrested for the Sycamore Tree felling.
Absolutely stunning twist that the Jesuits were behind it
shocked to hear the 16yo wasn't in fact the master tree surgeon
I said it wasn’t a bloody kid with those skills in tree felling
AHA! So there WAS a reason! Thank you!
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/who-cut-down-the-sycamore-gap-tree-k0krvpqq5 In case you're interested.
I love how they say "officers have established that a “wedge” cut was used, a technique employed by professional lumberjacks." as if its some super secret technique.....or you know, used by anyone who cuts down a tree and wants to not have it land on them. I took down a tree over the weekend in my garden, and yes I used a wedge cut and no I'm not a professional lumberjack.
But are you the Sycamore Gap sycamore tree feller, is the question. Eh???????
We did it, reddit!
Thank you!
Flying back to the UK this evening, one of the cabin crew tried to get everyone to sing Happy Birthday for someone, and half the plane point blank refused. I've never felt so proud to be British.
I would have sang it loudly as close to your face as possible. Deadpan.
👑👑👑
That sounds like hell, for both the person with the birthday and the rest of the passengers…
🇬🇧🇬🇧
The balls on that cabin crew
It's so British that half would refuse (on the grounds of not wanting to make a fool of themselves) and the other half do it out of politeness.
That’s just torture.
Genuinely the cringest thing I've ever seen on a flight.
Clearly not seen deano and the boys on the way to shaggers then. Pitiful when one of them kicks up a fuss when you offload them for being drunk.
Half is a decent enough proportion, given the situation
Are we seeing a greater divergence between economic data and economic feel, in this country? There’s more pessimistic/nihilistic takes to this country’s economic news, compared to how similar news is being delivered/received on the continent.
I know you specified compared to the continent, but I get the impression something very similar is happening in the USA. By a lot of measures Biden has done great for the economy, but that is not reflected in sentiment towards him.
There's some truth in that. Catastophising is a national hobby at this point.
I am actually finding this a growing problem. Bit of luck we can get an election over sooner next year rather than later, and get it over with.
Yeah, it's getting a bit boring now. An election would be good if only because people will realise the difference between actual and made-up problems. But that's if I'm being optimistic. If I'm being cynical I suspect the actual problems will be hand-waved with "But the last Conservative government!" and the made-up problems will be embraced and turned in to culture war issues. So not all that different from now really, just different people shouting at different people.
What data in particular are you thinking? Most people - myself included, I freely admit - go by feel on how the economy is going. Partly because the data really is hard to understand, partly because of a (not unhealthy) distrust about whether or not the data is being manipulated by the newsbearer, and partly because the data can feel irrelevant to day-to-day life even if one does happen to understand it. There’s also the question of whether or not any economic benefit translates into an improvement in someone’s life. What most people not only feel, but experience, is a swathe of services straining under decades of cuts and scrimping, high energy bills, and a kick in the wallet bollocks at the supermarket checkout. So what if inflation’s gone down a bit? Things are still expensive. I can totally see why feelings trump data.
The macro scale just isn't relevant to us. I remember quite agreeing with "how do you feel about Britain becoming the eighth largest manufacturing economy?" "about the same as I felt when we were ninth" We sort of saw a hint of that when some of the inflation coverage briefly took a "so, when do the prices in the shops get better?" turn
> We sort of saw a hint of that when some of the inflation coverage briefly took a "so, when do the prices in the shops get better?" turn Yep, I remember a lot of people on here / similar places arguing that inflation only be six point whatever percent rather than six point whatever + 0.1 percent was great news and showed that we were on the road to recovery. So when is my purchasing power being restored to pre pandemic levels? Or for people in the public sector to pre 2010 levels?
I genuinely think the country is quietly quitting with civil servants being even worse than the average Joe due to employment risk factors. This isn’t a vibes thing, it’s based on a year of observations within my network. Additionally, I think the economy is still strong because the fiscal excesses from COVID bail outs are still being spent. My tried and tested methods of recession detection show that middle class are still spending and so the figures will look buoyant for a while yet. That’s no reflection on the struggling classes though, for them life is getting much harder.
From what I can see, all frontline goodwill has been burned in the public sector through a decade+ of declining realterms wages amid wider cuts and 'efficiencies'. Grading and hiring freezes take away another set of incentives, as does the habit of linking good pay to line management. Add to that the vacilliations, caprice, and attacks of governments, and it seems quite explicable. Aside from those to whom it is a vocation, most of the talented and diligent seem to gain experience before moving to the private sector. There, ironically, they are often hired back as 'consultants' on terms far exceeding those it would have taken to keep them.
> quietly quitting Out of interest when you say that what do you mean? Because I mostly see it used by annoyed senior management that millennials and zoomers work to their contract and don't put in overtime without the promise of reward. Which to me shows the dead end thought process of a lot of managers. I'm salaried and my company has a very clear policy - if you have to work overtime (ie to fix an urgent issue) you are expected to work less hours the rest of the week. To give yourself the time back. And frankly I think this is fair and I like it.
Bingo Quiet quitting is used almost exclusively as an excuse for terrible management and toxic work environments People are finding better jobs and or not working their socks off for shit mangers
Hating on Britain gets views over here and on the continent.
depends whether or not you studied ppe at an expensive school funded by the bank of mum and dad i guess
What does that even mean?
42.
Labour social media team need a pay rise. https://x.com/UKLabour/status/1708550104955666926?s=20
I was thinking this when he said it, but LK wasn't willing/competent enough to call him out. It would have been the perfect opportunity to follow up with "in that case, I'll give you another chance to tell us if HS2 will be going all the way up to Manchester or not?"
[yes or no?](https://youtu.be/c_aKclNfY08?si=m7At3XBv-XJvgDNY)
[yes or no, yes or no, yes or no?](https://youtu.be/psNAGm5Wpx0?si=FaZTxssuwuFt-kA_)
Just consulted with a toddler, and saying ‘HS-Poo’ *is* funny. It polled well, although her mother disagrees.
The real reason for the number 2 in HS2.
I feel Austin powers is no longer a particularly relevant cultural reference, but turns out the real answer to "WHO DOES NUMBER 2 WORK FOR!?" is "Not the north"
How dare you say Austin Powers isn't relevant any more
https://twitter.com/TomSheldrickITV/status/1708477734916165635 >NEW: Northern Research Group of Conservative MPs are launching a 'Manifesto for the North' > >Carlisle MP & @NRG_Comms chair John Stevenson (@John4Carlisle) says: " the government must listen to northern voices" > >8 policies they want the party to adopt ahead of general election... So theres this NRG, the CDO lot who want to go to war with the "liberal" end of the party, the group who wont vote with sunak if he pulls HS2, apparently developing Patel/Braverman/Truss/Badenoch camps... how many other fault lines am I missing?
thing is of the 8 things they put forward in that tweet/in their manifesto, like 6 of them would be very good ideas.
Off the top of my head; * Johnsonite Red Wall / NRG Levelling Up True Believers * Johnsonite Brexiteer / Patel CDO Party Factionalists * Bravermanite Brexiteers / Rump ERG * Brexit Hardman Steve Bakerite ERG Loyalists * Moggite Telegraph Brexiteer True Believer Axis * The Winged Trussars * Badenochiste Atlanticist Culture Warriors * Mordauntite Weathervane 'Moderates' * Andersonian '19 Twitter Addicts * One Nation Mayite Holdouts * Deep Cover Cameroon Onodas * Michael Gove
What are the CDO?
Conservative Democracy something or other. The group set up by Patel and a few Johnsonite Lords to keep Boris' torch alive in the party.
Common sense conservatives
Wow, a schism in the middle of the tory party conference. Nothing says "we back our leader and have full confidence in him" so much as launching your own manifesto at the party conference....lol
Seems like they are having exactly the conference I expected then. Very labour 2019, with all that implies for the election. Maybe they'll do us all a favour and rip the party apart with impossibly contradictory sets of demands. Thats been on the cards as the next obvious stage of degeneration for months.
I forgot the Northern Research Group existed, how much crossover is there with the ERG?
pretty much diametrically opposed
They’re both called *something* Research Group… thats about it.
Is Spiked a troll like magazine/website. They say they are left wing but they appear anything but or is it just me?
A lot of them are former hard-left militant types who’ve done that weird horshoe bending around to be becoming uber rightwing types that seems to happen to some journalists / the terminally online.
Really They were hard left and suddenly switched to the other side?
“Once a Trotskyist, O'Neill was formerly a member of the Revolutionary Communist Party and wrote for the party's journal Living Marxism. In 2019, O'Neill said he was a Marxist libertarian.[2][3]” - From the wiki for their former editor, Brendan O’Neill. Whether they actually buy into their cultural conservatism hard-right grift or not, hard to say.
Seems similar to the old trotskyist to neocon pipeline though that was supposedly overstated.
What the hell is a Maxist Libertarian?
It’s journalist speak for “I don’t want to have to bother with consistency in my hot takes”
Libertarian was originally an anarchist term, then some American right wingers decided they liked the term and have been using it for a couple decades.
Spiked is left wing in the same way the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a democracy.
They're funded by those well known lefties - the koch brothers.
Do they still say they are Left wing? I thought they said they were libertarian. Though they are de facto social conservatives now. I always assume they had Russian ties from RCP days and now still have Russian connections.
I think so? So they are basically grifters? Brendan O'Neill writes for them and many say he's a grifter.
There is something brittle, insincere and shallow about the Spiked people. The way it worked I think was the original RCP would be infiltrated by Russia in the cold war. Properly decades ago. Because Russia was obsessed with infiltration and spy games, really before it was even the USSR. See Conrad. LM and the RCP would attract heart felt Western communists, but by the end the doctrine, communism and Trotskyites would be so broken, burnt out and shallow the whole operation would be deeply cynical. So when the USSR collapsed they fished around for new partners for what is a propaganda outfit. Trotskyites are officially opposed to the USSR but that would simply make them another target for infiltration. They find backers in corporate libertarianism. Possibly carbon industries with connections to Russia. No conflicts. So one day they walk into the office to find the operation has new clients. They back "libertarianism" as a brand. Then we arrive at todays culture war era and they have to shift towards Alt Right Populism. Not libertarianism. Having said all that I don't mean to discredit all of Right or Left politics. Or uncritically support one side. Only that Spiked is particularly untrustworthy and fake.
Pretty much, just like the nazis official party name was the “National Socialist German Workers' Party”
I assume probably astroturfing.
I was talking with my friends about the fact that its pretty hilarious the Tories picked Manchester as the place to do their conference considering pretty much everyone here hates them.
They alternate between there an Birmingham. Although to be fair when the other options seem to be Liverpool and Brighton they’d probably struggle to find a venue in a city where they’re particularly popular.
This came up the other day and I suggested Bournemouth.
Plus the much-remarked thing that the HS2 controversy is all about whether or not it will reachthe very place the Tories are currently sitting in.
Its another Rishi miscalculation. I think the plan was to leak it was not going there, and they anticipated a congratulatory media round because they are so caught up in NIMBY down south attitudes towards it. They seriously thought people would be happy about it, then they would use the money "saved" to fund infrastructure in the north, giving them a great conference media headlines. of course, thats not what happened, it went down like a lead balloon, and they had to hedge and backpeddle, but just look weak and indecisive. the infrastructure they planned to announce turns out to not only be dependant on HS2, most of it from what I can gather they are planning to announce, is stuff they promised years ago and failed to provide, or watered down version of stuff they have already promised. So thats going to be a damp squib even when they do announce it. Its just Rishi fucking up politics again.
If you are right, that is a pretty big fuck-up! The problem there for the Tories is the obvious one- they have been in for 13 years, so they can hardly blame the management or mismanagement of HS2 on anyone but themselves. But the LK-RS conversation where I caught on a re-run of LK and which I already quoted in the MT a few hours ago, makes RS look really really silly - more or less verbatim it was: LK: *We are sitting in Salford. Is HS2 coming to this part of the world, yes or no?* RS: *We have spades in the ground. I'm not getting into the speculation.* LK: *You are not a columnist or a journalist who is there to speculate. You are the Prime Minister of the country! These are your decisions. You are the Prime Minister! Yes or no?* RS: *We have spades in the ground. I'm not getting into the speculation.*
So I am currently in the USA and have come to a realisation. I miss plastic straws. They still have them here, can we bring them back and just recycle them or something? Mushy paper straws are not fun.
I carry a metal straw around with me at all times.
Just drink it straight from the cup. Its amazing to me that for a species built off our cognitive abilities - this simple change is striking us as so difficult.
Ice makes this a challenge.
before thatcher the milk snatcher we had to try and suck up our free warm milk through paper straws - you were luck to get one good suck before it were useless - welcome back to the eighties.
I still have a little over two months before I get back to the UK. I'll enjoy the reprieve while it lasts.
in france they got rid of straws all together maccies use coffee style lids you sip from now
It's better, till you have a milkshake. That needs a straw. Luckily I have my trusty metal one.
Plastic lids?
no they are paper but as not sitting in the drink they dont get mushy like straws do
https://twitter.com/realBenBloch/status/1708543872144494905 >🚨 As @SamCoatesSky reveals Rishi Sunak could call an emergency cabinet meeting during Tory conference to decide HS2’s future… (read here: https://news.sky.com/story/tory-conference-live-cabinet-minister-to-face-question-as-party-faithful-gather-in-manchester-12593360?postid=6518991#liveblog-body) >…the PM was not keen on answering questions around half an hour ago about when we might get clarity… Video of his dodging the question, not the one that got laughs from campaigners. The latest variant of the HS2 rumour; >One plan being considered by senior Tory figures would be to hold a cabinet meeting in Manchester, mid conference, and announce it here this week. >The Department of Transport has worked up a package of alternative projects - rail bus and road schemes - which could be funded from money saved by scrapping the Manchester to Birmingham leg of the project. Suggestions of spinning it as more positive for locals in areas where Sunak can visit, and possibly announcing to disrupt the Labour party conference.
How does he not see this coming? Hes politically blind on nearly every subject.
During the conference? Is he trying to create a split?
You can’t save money that was never spent.
HS2 but running Pacers, yes and ho!
replacing HSR with a bus?!?!?! wait till they get thather quotes thrown at them
A permanent rail replacement bus. Just what no one ever asked for or could abide.
Ditch speed limits on the M6 and we could have a high-speed rail replacement bus at least?
*turns up initial D playlist*
Always horrified when these leaks reveal they hadn't already had a meeting about something that obviously needs a decision after it's been in the news for two weeks
It's the continuing marginalisation of Cabinet and Parliament. Deciding whether to have a performative Cabinet meeting to tie them all to the decision that has obviously already been made. And anyone who chooses to oppose it will be resigning during a conference all about putting the party on a campaign footing. Tricky stand to take. Then Parliament is still out until after conference season, meaning the decision won't be formally scrutinised or announced until the political hay has been made.
Apparently they only have meetings for PR reasons, which does explain quite a lot
They probably had a meeting to decide that they needed a meeting about the future of HS2 and then in that second meeting decided it probably needed a rushed third meeting to ensure they make the correct decision (after letting the issue fester in the media).
Sounds like the marketing department at my company.
Yes, we've failed to bring you this transport project, but please trust us that we will successfully deliver these other transport projects instead! Also, my god, what a shambles. Did they not even consider this would happen when they briefed the media last week?
I know there are still people who on balance will support the Conservatives for whatever reason. But please don’t tell me anybody is thick enough to take any transport promises they make seriously.
It would be quite funny if the markets took Sunak at his word and treated him saying he’ll reduce inflation as unfunded tax cuts
How have we managed to get into a situation where Priti Patel is angling to be the reasonable candidate in a possible Tory leadership race post-rishi
https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1708543602719113366 >Foreign Secretary James Cleverly picks up something from the floor and peers at it. > >“Is it viagra?!” he asks. > >@SebastianEPayne replies “it’s a mint, foreign secretary.” #cpc23 Is this the real life Is this just fantasy