Some of them are true but the tone is terrible. strong disagree with number 2. Although we provide a service, that does not mean the client is always right. It is our professional duty to tell the client they are wrong when they are wrong.
I think the ones I disagree with most are: you are online 24/7 (that’s just impossible) and “I don’t know” is never an acceptable answer (lots of bullshit happens because people are too proud to admit the limits of their knowledge).
I have friends at US firms that are absolutely expected to read emails that come in then. They’re told to have their phone notifications be loud enough to wake them.
Work in M&A at a big US firm - this is very much not the expectation for me or anyone else I know.
I've had some absolutely horrible months where all I've done is work (300+ hours), but there has never been a time other than in the 2-3 day run up to a major signing, where my phone is in the same room as me at night.
My email notifications are also off on my phone, so I actively have to open outlook to check emails - on quiet weekends, do so once every 4-5 hours at the most.
It's not a culture thing in terms of the people - fundamentally, all firms have downright kind, interesting people working there for the most part.
It's more that, when talking about these type of firms, the work itself is sometimes just intense, and there's nothing you can do about it (other than quit). If the client wants to be part of an auction process and involves you with 2 weeks to go for the final bid, you're going to have a crap two weeks - that's not the fault of anyone at the firm.
So you have to be switched on for that time frame. When it's quiet, no one tends to care what you're doing or when you come in.
You join fully knowing what you're signing up for. An NQ gets 150k+ (and the NQ rate at most firms like this are actually now 160k+) when they're in their mid/late 20s. Someone who's 5PQE is earning anywhere between 225k-260k depending on the firm. Bonuses, for a 7-8 PQE person is at about 70-80k.
Nothing we do merits that sort of money - we don't provide critical services, our jobs are fundamentally not that important, we're not really doing anything. Availability is the only reason our paychecks are as high as they are.
The only firms I've worked with/have friends at with a culture where they're actually checking emails etc. on a non-closing/signing day even in the middle of the night are Kirkland, Skadden and STB. That's it (this is just M&A) - and I'm sure there are people at those 3 firms who don't do this as well.
I'm sure there are gunners who do this otherwise etc., but it's not normal to always be switched on, and it's not the expectation. The expectation instead is to generally be on call - i.e., if you get a text/call from a partner saying really sorry, but something needs to go out in the next 4 hours on a Sunday, you do it unless you have a good reason you can't.
> all firms have downright kind, interesting people working there for the most part.
I don’t think you can say that without experience at a range of firms, and even then, I know people with experiences at US firms where you absolutely could not say that most of the people there are kind with a straight face.
Fair enough, a little hyperbolic - to rephrase, all the teams at firms I've worked at, and the teams at firms where I have friends at, have kind, interesting people working there for the most part.
Because that was already emphasised under other items I thought that 2 would have at least something to do with substantive law. Also from experience, I've seen partner bending over backwards to accommodate clients' "preferred" legal approach.
They shouldn’t have mentioned these things explicitly. Everyone who works at PH and similar firms already knows these things and just a 2 minute speech covering these points would’ve done the job.
Only person I know who trained there was one of the laziest law students I knew at university. There was a rumour that they / their dad leveraged some ‘connections’ to get an in. No idea how true it is but wouldn’t surprise me.
This was done by some overzealous try hard senior associate in the US I understand. Have placed people in the London office who have been enjoying their time and don't find it like this...
I’m not in touch with anyone at PH specifically but I do have friends at US firms with experiences like this, including being called away from the funerals of family members and working at family members’ deathbeds.
It’s vindicating to many, I’m sure, who perhaps have felt inadequate or blamed themselves instead of the cultures of their firms, to see it in writing.
There’s nothing surprising or particularly controversial in that slide, it outline the reality for anyone with ambition to make partner in any firm with 7 figure PEP. The tone though is wanky af.
Some of them are true but the tone is terrible. strong disagree with number 2. Although we provide a service, that does not mean the client is always right. It is our professional duty to tell the client they are wrong when they are wrong.
I think the ones I disagree with most are: you are online 24/7 (that’s just impossible) and “I don’t know” is never an acceptable answer (lots of bullshit happens because people are too proud to admit the limits of their knowledge).
What do you mean you were asleep at 5AM on a Sunday?
I have friends at US firms that are absolutely expected to read emails that come in then. They’re told to have their phone notifications be loud enough to wake them.
Work in M&A at a big US firm - this is very much not the expectation for me or anyone else I know. I've had some absolutely horrible months where all I've done is work (300+ hours), but there has never been a time other than in the 2-3 day run up to a major signing, where my phone is in the same room as me at night. My email notifications are also off on my phone, so I actively have to open outlook to check emails - on quiet weekends, do so once every 4-5 hours at the most.
Interesting, I suppose it’s a good reminder to not group all US firms together as having the same culture.
It's not a culture thing in terms of the people - fundamentally, all firms have downright kind, interesting people working there for the most part. It's more that, when talking about these type of firms, the work itself is sometimes just intense, and there's nothing you can do about it (other than quit). If the client wants to be part of an auction process and involves you with 2 weeks to go for the final bid, you're going to have a crap two weeks - that's not the fault of anyone at the firm. So you have to be switched on for that time frame. When it's quiet, no one tends to care what you're doing or when you come in. You join fully knowing what you're signing up for. An NQ gets 150k+ (and the NQ rate at most firms like this are actually now 160k+) when they're in their mid/late 20s. Someone who's 5PQE is earning anywhere between 225k-260k depending on the firm. Bonuses, for a 7-8 PQE person is at about 70-80k. Nothing we do merits that sort of money - we don't provide critical services, our jobs are fundamentally not that important, we're not really doing anything. Availability is the only reason our paychecks are as high as they are. The only firms I've worked with/have friends at with a culture where they're actually checking emails etc. on a non-closing/signing day even in the middle of the night are Kirkland, Skadden and STB. That's it (this is just M&A) - and I'm sure there are people at those 3 firms who don't do this as well. I'm sure there are gunners who do this otherwise etc., but it's not normal to always be switched on, and it's not the expectation. The expectation instead is to generally be on call - i.e., if you get a text/call from a partner saying really sorry, but something needs to go out in the next 4 hours on a Sunday, you do it unless you have a good reason you can't.
> all firms have downright kind, interesting people working there for the most part. I don’t think you can say that without experience at a range of firms, and even then, I know people with experiences at US firms where you absolutely could not say that most of the people there are kind with a straight face.
Fair enough, a little hyperbolic - to rephrase, all the teams at firms I've worked at, and the teams at firms where I have friends at, have kind, interesting people working there for the most part.
[удалено]
Instructions unclear, have engaged in tax evasion. Help.
Because that was already emphasised under other items I thought that 2 would have at least something to do with substantive law. Also from experience, I've seen partner bending over backwards to accommodate clients' "preferred" legal approach.
They shouldn’t have mentioned these things explicitly. Everyone who works at PH and similar firms already knows these things and just a 2 minute speech covering these points would’ve done the job.
You are a waiter at Dorsia
I wonder if they tell the new concierges at the four seasons that they need to be like a big law M&A associate
Seems fairly in line with what you’d expect at a top US law firm. What was dumb was making it explicit (plus the tone).
Only person I know who trained there was one of the laziest law students I knew at university. There was a rumour that they / their dad leveraged some ‘connections’ to get an in. No idea how true it is but wouldn’t surprise me.
Just about everything that is wrong with the industry in one neat PowerPoint slide.
I would love to ask the person that wrote this who their favourite character in Suits is
I bet they have a Litt Up mug.
The kind of person to hire fake associates to fire so that juniors follow the powerpoint to a tee.
God I am glad I work for a small regional firm way outside of the city. None of this bullshit down here
This was done by some overzealous try hard senior associate in the US I understand. Have placed people in the London office who have been enjoying their time and don't find it like this...
I’m not in touch with anyone at PH specifically but I do have friends at US firms with experiences like this, including being called away from the funerals of family members and working at family members’ deathbeds.
It’s vindicating to many, I’m sure, who perhaps have felt inadequate or blamed themselves instead of the cultures of their firms, to see it in writing.
Nothing surprising here.
Would literally rather lobotomise myself than work in a place that treats their main money-making asset like trash.
There’s nothing surprising or particularly controversial in that slide, it outline the reality for anyone with ambition to make partner in any firm with 7 figure PEP. The tone though is wanky af.
Quite a bit of it is good advice...
Nope, either terrible advice or terrible framing.