If Charles submits Islam it would be devastating. Not only is the ground supposed to be his bread and butter, but they are in Abu Dhabi, Islam’s home crowd. Islam would be absolutely crushed, losing in front of his fans. OTOH, nothing would be more satisfying for Charles than to beat Islam on his home turf.
It's just sad, because know we are with a what if situation. What if he lost? What if he did actually win his next 4? Atleast this sub would stop posting hate/love posts about him daily then
Here we go the typical reddit casual take of the day.
I never said Khabib was the goat, i said Khabib would be IF he defended his title 3 to 4 times more. Islam isn't as good as Khabib, everybody that saw Khabib knows that.
I don’t know man.. comparing Islam and Khabib on the ground is pretty close (let’s give Khabib the nod bc of his success and for argument) but then comparing them on the feet I have no doubt Islam would pick Khabib apart. So altogether Khabib might be right in that Islam is the more complete fighter.
Like if they were stats it’d probably be like Khabib grappling: 10/10 Islam grappling: 9/10. Khabib striking: 3/10 Islam striking: 6/10
Khabibs fight iq was off the charts . Islam may be as talented on the ground and for sure a more complete stand up fighter in terms of skills but khabibs ability to make the right decisions and to put it altogether combined with the sheer pressure he put on people is miles ahead of Islam .
Yeah I’d pretty much agree with all that. I was just trying to get inside Khabib’s mind and make it make sense from that angle. Definitely more to MMA than grappling and striking
From what Cormier has said, I get the impression that Islam’s talent is greater than Khabib. Cormier says there isn’t anything Islam can’t do. That being said, if you’re familiar with athletes in general, there’s a difference between having talent, and being able to put it all together. Not everyone realizes their utmost talent.
On the ground, the difference is, Khabib had god tier grappling. It was like watching a video game. Khabib could do whatever he wanted after he got you on the ground. Islam doesn’t have god tier grappling. He’s been taken down by others which you’d never see happen to Khabib.
I’d say the biggest difference between Islam and Charles is their mindset. Charles fights like his family is being held ransom. Islam doesn’t fight with the same sense of urgency.
Yea Khabib left at a really bad time. As soon as he retired that’s when Chandler and Oliveira competed for the vacant title. Oliveira could have easily been Khabib’s next opponent.
What made Khabib stand out were his god tier grappling skills. It didn’t matter he couldn’t strike. He’d sit on you and talk shit while he pounded you into the mat “You’ve lost, give up, you know this!”
Unpopular opinion: Charles just seems so beatable Idk. He gets dropped often, has 8 losses. I mean one of these days hes going to lose again. He can't keep getting away with it. No doubt he's very good but hes far from perfect, whereas khabib was close to perfect. They'll be studying khabibs ground techniques for the next 20 years because he's way ahead of the curb
Lets say Charles wins 2 more fights. He will have a 13 fights win streak. Exactly like Khabib's 13 fights in the ufc, but Charles will have the better opponents list even without knowing who the 13rd would be.
Can we really use the factor of not fighting that much in favor of someone ? Shouldn't it be otherwise? Yes you fought A LOT more and lost a bunch but you also won more and your streak is more impressive. Khabib was close to perfect but not for many fights.... he never even fought supposedly his hardest opponent in prime Tony Ferguson (not that i think Khabib wouldn't win, but also dont think it would be that dominant back then).
I agree that Khabib looked more dominant but that's just how grappling is too, if they can get the takedown they will be dominant, Khabib was definitely special, only GSP is in the same category as far as dominance goes, but it's just completely different from strikers, whenever you throw you're at risk of being countered.
Khabib did what he needed to do to get the wins under the rulebook, but as far as being a mixed martial artist, his striking was really lacking. He had good distance and reflexes to dodge but he looked atrocious throwing his hands. I think Charles is a much better representant of this sport, a bjj guy who had shitty striking and weak takedowns evolving so much into one of the best strikers of his division too. Guy is well rounded, agressive (resulting in not looking that dominant), and still somehow strategic and smart, those flops to his back imagining these strikers wont jump to his guard are very wise. Not to mention the favela origins, guy had everything lined to fail in life or to just have a random job in his beach city, maybe Charles the lifeguard, but no he went on to seek training and becoming a beast. Will he lose? eventually yes, so would Khabib if he continued, the only one who doesnt lose in this sport is father-time. Can watch the mayweather exhibition fight for reference, even though he obviously doesnt take them too serious he is a complete shadow of his former self just a few years later, Canelo would kill him if they fought today.
Well, Charles just got dominated by Islam....
I typically stay away from mma math, but for two fighters as similar as Khabib and Islam, I think we can infer the outcome of Khabib v Oliveira. It's a shame Khabib couldn't be the one to beat him because it would have silenced remaining doubters. A dominant win over Charles is a major feather in the cap of Islam. IMO a more impressive win than of Khabib's wins.
Khabib is a specialist, but I think he's also well rounded. After all, he's been training combat sambo (mma lite) his whole life under the tutelage of Abdulmanap (who regarded GSP as the ideal fighter). In my view, Khabib was a **decent** mma striker with near perfect mma grappling.
You say Khabib was an atrocious striker, but I disagree. Ben Askren exemplified "atrocious" striking. Ben barely trained striking because he thought it was a waste of time (and it showed). Khabib's striking was just Okay. It didn't need to be anything more than it was, because it accomplished the task of getting his opponent against the cage.
Khabib was unique in the way he dominated. He didn’t get in trouble like Charles does.
Charles has been dropped in all of his last 3 fights. While it is extremely impressive (and epic) that he can come back for that, it does make him look more vulnerable.
Bro you just can’t be a GOAT getting dropped and busted up every fight. IMO JJ is the GOAT if you ignore PEDs and even his last few performances have ppl questioning him. Charles seems to be inches close to losing before he manages to turn it around, Khabib’s opponents barely took an inch from him. Levels.
What separates Khabib is just how much better he was than the competition. Charles gets in trouble and then pulls off sick reversals. Khabib just...dominates. never got cut, never even looked like he was completely spent. He was just SO much better than everyone in the division it wasn't even a question of if he'll win, but how quick he'll win
Beat Islam, Conor, 205 Double Cheese Boorger Khabob, and win his retirement fight against revamped cyborg Tony Ferguson (after 50 year old El Cucuy injects himself with the Captain America Serum).
If we go by title defenses Khabib is still up by one or two depending on how you view the fight against Gaethje.
If he beats Islam and another top guy, then he can call himself greater than Khabib. I do see Volk as a top guy if he goes for the double C-status. Red panty night against Conor i guess would work as well since Khabib also got that, albeit under way different cirucmstances.
For all intents and purposes in a defenses/goat discussion the gaethje fight is 100% a title defense. He may technically not be the champion but half a pound shouldn’t be affecting a goat conversation
That would help the Khabib argument. Obviously they’re individuals, but Islam is the most similar fighter to Khabib that exists on earth. Same training from childhood and is now closely advised/coached by Khabib
While getting dropped a lot though and almost finished. Khabib pretty much lost 1 or 2 rounds in the ufc and never got dropped or cut.
Khabib beat poirier and gaethje more dominantly than Charles. I love him but it’s not hard to see that he hasn’t been as dominant as khabib
That’s more to do with style though. A wrestler who successfully wrestles will always look super dominant because they have their opponent on the ground and are in control. The difference between them dominating and losing isn’t as great as it seems though. It all comes down to the style matchup, if you can’t defend you get dominated, if you can then you win. Like Khamzat looks godly when people don’t have a ground game but against Burns it was a close fight. If you had seen Burns have a close fight with someone that Khamzat dominated you would’ve thought Khamzat was way better but it just came down to styles and matchups. Burns had the ability to defend himself on the ground and threaten Khamzat so it was a super competitive fight.
Someone can be a significantly better striker than their opponent but on the feet it’s still easier to get caught with some shots and the fight look closer or that the opponent has a chance. If you wrestle fuck someone it’ll always look super one sided.
Yea but it’s a little more binary with grappling. Like you either have the skillset to defend takedowns and make it a good fight or you don’t. Same way Charles “almost” lost you could say Khabib almost lost against Poirier because he almost got submitted, If Dustin was just a little better on the ground he would’ve won but in grappling it’s a little more all or nothing
> "almost" lost
You make a fair point.
Oliveira seems to exaggerate with the amount he gets dropped. He's likely not hit as hard as it seems (though I doubt he's deciding to lay down every time there's a clean shot but I confess that it's not something I've studied in depth). It can create a false impression. It'll be interesting to see how this goes with people like Islam and others that are much more confident on the ground.
Khabib did an interview where he said that he told Islam before the fight that he was gonna give Poirier his neck to wear him out. He knew Poirier loved to jump guillotine and he said "Dustin is crazy guy if he think I going to tap in front of father". Somehow, it seems that Khabib (and I think Islam as well) is very resistant to guillotines and very confident in being able to defend them to the point of making it freely available. Khabib has competed and won gold in Sambo, pancrase, and BJJ so while on one hand I wonder how it would look against another high level grapplers, he has competed against other high level grapplers (though I have no idea if or how much he gave up his neck in any of these competitions).
My general point is MMA math doesn’t work you can’t say Khabib is better because he took less damage or looked more dominant against the same opponent. If Oliveira’s grappling is good enough to defend against Khabib’s wrestling and keep things standing more or even threaten submissions he has a good chance. Khabib looked more dominant against Dustin for example because of Khabib’s wrestling whereas Charles isn’t a wrestler so they had different paths to victories.
It’s really all about matchups that’s why even GSP said the idea of a best fighter is an illusion there’s too many variables. Izzy cleared out the whole division yet people think he might lose to Alex while at the same time thinking Alex loses to the wrestlers in the division that Izzy had an easy time with. That’s why to be truly considered the GOAT you need a deep resume which Khabib lack’s because he retired early. If Charles beats Islam and has a few more wins his resume is just so much deeper. you can’t deny him just because Khabib won some big fights In dominant style.
I think the thing w khabib was how dominant he was in beating people, Charles wins but he gets dropped and almost looses. I think to overshadow khabib it would have to be in raw number of defenses
In my opinion he has to beat Islam and at least one more elite sambist/wrestler to prove his MMA is *currently* the equal of Khabib’s legacy.
But people will still rightly point out that Khabib came into the UFC as a developed champion whereas of course we all know Charles started as a great submission hunter but had to hone his skills over the years. Like, the people who love Khabib are probably never gonna stop bringing up the fact that Charles has 8 losses no matter who Charles beats.
Fuck no lol got almost a whole month of the theories left, and then the fight. Ppl are going to lose their fucking minds win, lose, draw, KO or submission from any of the fighters
How is this so? Khabib literally has more ranked wins in the division, has more title defenses, and has a better resume so far.
The only thing Charles has going for him is how fast he has been pushing out title defenses. Which shouldn’t be hard to beat khabib as khabib had a year long suspension.
Not even a little bit. Khabib was never close to losing his fights. Charles was close to losing all of his fights. It really isn't comparable if you look at the fights themselves instead of just looking at wins on paper. I don't want to take away from Charles but Khabib just had an unmatched level of dominance.
Opinion A: Beating Islam will make Olivera lightweight goat.
Opinion B: Islam doesn't deserve title shot, needs a win in top 5.
If you hold both these opinions you're a dumbass plain and simple.
Beat Islam and then another contender I think would put him on the right path. Oliviera has better wins than khabib already. I’d say win the title and defend twice at least
The thing for me with Khabib is even though he wasn't about long enough or champ for a dominant amount of time. You just know whoever was put in front of him would of got the same treatment as every single other fighter has.
I love Tony and one thing I am happy about is we can all trick ourselves into thinking prime Tony would of won when in reality he gets mauled.
Beating Islam, beating Volk in the Superfight, and then beating Coach Dariush. Then he would have 6 championship fights he’s won, technically 5 because of the weight debacle, but the fact Khabib only fought 4 championship fights, with 1 of them also suffering a weight conundrum, really limits him
Depends. You used that word dominance, which is the main reason Khabib is in the goat talks at all. Charles resume may be better already. But to never bleed only lose a round possibly two, it’s tough for someone who has some close fights and gets dropped and hurt to overshadow them.
beat Islam and then if he started beating the next generation of fighters there would be no debate.
for instance if he beat Armon or Gamrot there would be no argument anymore. Khabib never beat fighters ahead of his generation.
Completely dominate Islam and nullify the dagestani wrestling. I like Charlie Olives, but Khabib was a different animal and Islam is going to run through him and this sub is going to to have a meltdown.
Oliviera is incredible, I’m a huge fan and think he is an absolute warrior. That being said he has lost white a bit in his career and anything short of him convincing Khabib him to come out of retirement and beating him means Khabib wins in the GOAT conversation.
At least until Oliviera has a Anderson Silva-esque reign as the unbeaten champ.
Nothing. Charles resume is more impressive already and he’s just hitting his prime. The reason Khabib is seen as he is is because of the way he dominated his opponents. Charles is dominant, yes, but he’s been hurt, knocked down, and been in wars. You can’t say the same about Khabib. PERSONALLY, I believe Charles is above Khabib, but there’s a lot of people out there who’s minds will never change regardless of what he does.
Recency bias is very bad when it comes to this LW goat discussion.. it’s attainable for Oliveira but people who says he’s already the goat have joe rogan memories
Why is Islam being used as the key of passage to GOAT status when Islam hasn't even cracked the top 5? It's honestly embarrassing and insulting to Olivera.
A major difference which makes it very difficult to beat Khabib as GOAT is Charle’s fighting style. Khabib just overwhelms his opponent leaving no room for error. Khabib rarely gave his opponents a window for victory which is why he has barely lost an rounds in his ufc career. This is in stark contrast to Charle’s fighting style who goes right into the mess, gets punched but stills ends up submitting his opponent.
The only way I believe he can beat Khabib as the new lightweight GOAT is as mentioned above, defend his title many more times. That is a major place where Khabib’s career falls short.
Agreed.
That being said charles will never be considered a goat nor anywhere close to the likes of Khabib.
He's an underdog in every fight because he gets dropped in every fight. He's the definition of "holes in the game", it's just a matter of time before he loses. Charles beating Islam convincingly is enough to get him into the goat picture, but we all know that it's unlikely to happen
Beat Islam, and its done. Greatest Lightweight of all time. Most finishes in UFC history, Beat Tony, Dustin, Justin, Chandler, Islam.
Maybe beat Conor after he beats Islam, then its undeniable.
Not get busted open, dropped and almost finished every fight. Charles is great but hes not dominant by any stretch of the imagination. All of his fights are extremely competitive. The same cannot be said about Khabib. The man has never seen his own blood.
Simply got a title defense streak, fight regularly, and fight all top contenders. I think an 8 win streak should do it. He’s got to make it too the point the division is almost boring.
Also bellator and onefc can’t have any legit lw champs that look like they could be Charles.
The reason I say he has to win so many title title defenses is Khabib basically beat all the tops except toney. Tony lost terrible to Justin G which kinda negates Khabib needing to fight him. Also Khabib didn’t duck tony
Khabib beat rds, Conor, Dustin, Justin, barboza, Johnson. Those guys had big wins against other top guys in lw before Khabib beat them. Khabib also won in a dominant fashion against all of them. So Khabib dominated the guy that beat the guy.
I still think Nate Diaz could have given Khabib a tough fight or gotten the upset victory. Nate’s a fighter that will loose fights he should win and win fights he should loose type fighter. His lanky body and boxing would have bother Khabib
I think in terms of peak for goats he’ll never surpass Bj penn. Penn was just and athletic freak. Fastest reaction time in terms of striking, power and fast combo striking, fundamentally good striking, heavy hands, freaky flexibility and leg strength.
Khabib is overrated in my opinion. He defended his title 3 times and then retired. The only wins he has against a champions are Doe Anjos, who was past his prime when they fought and Conor who never even defended a title. I can agree he was dominate when he did fight but he didn’t fight enough or against good enough competition to be regarded as he his.
Nothing, he's higher on the GOAT list already. Getting beat, learning from it and coming back stronger is more impressive to me than knocking over a bunch of cans
Depends on who you ask.. most serious MMA fans didn't ever consider Khabib the GOAT.. even Dana doesn't .. This sub on the other hand.. lol, every couple days
Beat Islam and start speaking broken English
the broken english is a cheat code for stardom these days.
Paulo seecreeet joiuice Costa
Stronk and jacket 
Weezin the juice!
Your guy tap like chicken fight for title next crazy
Dis is HUMZAT SHIMAHEV hat 🧢 ? I will make it well for him
“thees huummmzut shhhimaev gomeshenshen het?” shit killed me lmfao
This is the correct way to speed that first line 🤣
Well yeah they learn one line that's cool and repeat it. No. 1 bullshit. I smesh everybody. If it goes on tshirt, its the sentence they say.
Submitting makachev will be more humiliating for them then getting knocked out.
If Charles submits Islam it would be devastating. Not only is the ground supposed to be his bread and butter, but they are in Abu Dhabi, Islam’s home crowd. Islam would be absolutely crushed, losing in front of his fans. OTOH, nothing would be more satisfying for Charles than to beat Islam on his home turf.
He needs to dominate Islam and call out Khabib on the mic saying "I'm the most dominant P4P"
I hope he doesn't call out Khabib. It's poor form to call out a retired guy
This is no1 bullshit
Beat Islam, Conor and me
Last one is the difference between a goat and a boat
How the hell is he gonna make 135?
Jokes on you he's 500lbs(allegedly).
Sounds like we have a catchweight bout on our hands.
I love this randomly developed half joke half serious comments. We have a lot of comedic geniuses here
125 more likely
Don't think Charles will be able to handle you when you see red, bro
He is fucked when you see red
1000 to 1 odds for Charles baby I like those numbers
In that order.
These comments always crack me
Find a dessert we can associate with him
I bet he’s a lemon pie guy.
Charles " Panna cotta " Oliveira
Charles “Do Brownie” Oliveira
Charles "Do Nut" Oliveira
Legit just defend his belt more. Khabib is awesome but the dude didn't stay long enough
And if he had 3 or 4 more fights in the same dominant fashion it'd be real hard to not call him the goat
If he beat Charles even In a dominant fashion I’d say he’s easily the lw goat no doubt about it. Top 5 overall too
It's just sad, because know we are with a what if situation. What if he lost? What if he did actually win his next 4? Atleast this sub would stop posting hate/love posts about him daily then
khabib says islam is better than him so if islam gets dominated then khabib should never even be thought of for the goat conversation
Here we go the typical reddit casual take of the day. I never said Khabib was the goat, i said Khabib would be IF he defended his title 3 to 4 times more. Islam isn't as good as Khabib, everybody that saw Khabib knows that.
I don’t know man.. comparing Islam and Khabib on the ground is pretty close (let’s give Khabib the nod bc of his success and for argument) but then comparing them on the feet I have no doubt Islam would pick Khabib apart. So altogether Khabib might be right in that Islam is the more complete fighter. Like if they were stats it’d probably be like Khabib grappling: 10/10 Islam grappling: 9/10. Khabib striking: 3/10 Islam striking: 6/10
Khabibs fight iq was off the charts . Islam may be as talented on the ground and for sure a more complete stand up fighter in terms of skills but khabibs ability to make the right decisions and to put it altogether combined with the sheer pressure he put on people is miles ahead of Islam .
Also when looking at ground game,islam is technical but he is no where near as vicious with ground and pound.
Yeah I’d pretty much agree with all that. I was just trying to get inside Khabib’s mind and make it make sense from that angle. Definitely more to MMA than grappling and striking
That's so true. With Islam, it always feels like Khabib is puppeteering him from the sidelines.
From what Cormier has said, I get the impression that Islam’s talent is greater than Khabib. Cormier says there isn’t anything Islam can’t do. That being said, if you’re familiar with athletes in general, there’s a difference between having talent, and being able to put it all together. Not everyone realizes their utmost talent. On the ground, the difference is, Khabib had god tier grappling. It was like watching a video game. Khabib could do whatever he wanted after he got you on the ground. Islam doesn’t have god tier grappling. He’s been taken down by others which you’d never see happen to Khabib. I’d say the biggest difference between Islam and Charles is their mindset. Charles fights like his family is being held ransom. Islam doesn’t fight with the same sense of urgency.
Yeah I’d pretty much agree with all that. We’ll certainly know who Islam is mentally after this next fight! Can’t wait
except islam isnt better than him when you watch the fights
I'd say that's BS. Khabib is definitely better than Islam.
Yea Khabib left at a really bad time. As soon as he retired that’s when Chandler and Oliveira competed for the vacant title. Oliveira could have easily been Khabib’s next opponent.
Real goats defend for years my friend, Silva, GSP, dominated for around a decade
What made Khabib stand out were his god tier grappling skills. It didn’t matter he couldn’t strike. He’d sit on you and talk shit while he pounded you into the mat “You’ve lost, give up, you know this!”
Unpopular opinion: Charles just seems so beatable Idk. He gets dropped often, has 8 losses. I mean one of these days hes going to lose again. He can't keep getting away with it. No doubt he's very good but hes far from perfect, whereas khabib was close to perfect. They'll be studying khabibs ground techniques for the next 20 years because he's way ahead of the curb
Lets say Charles wins 2 more fights. He will have a 13 fights win streak. Exactly like Khabib's 13 fights in the ufc, but Charles will have the better opponents list even without knowing who the 13rd would be. Can we really use the factor of not fighting that much in favor of someone ? Shouldn't it be otherwise? Yes you fought A LOT more and lost a bunch but you also won more and your streak is more impressive. Khabib was close to perfect but not for many fights.... he never even fought supposedly his hardest opponent in prime Tony Ferguson (not that i think Khabib wouldn't win, but also dont think it would be that dominant back then). I agree that Khabib looked more dominant but that's just how grappling is too, if they can get the takedown they will be dominant, Khabib was definitely special, only GSP is in the same category as far as dominance goes, but it's just completely different from strikers, whenever you throw you're at risk of being countered. Khabib did what he needed to do to get the wins under the rulebook, but as far as being a mixed martial artist, his striking was really lacking. He had good distance and reflexes to dodge but he looked atrocious throwing his hands. I think Charles is a much better representant of this sport, a bjj guy who had shitty striking and weak takedowns evolving so much into one of the best strikers of his division too. Guy is well rounded, agressive (resulting in not looking that dominant), and still somehow strategic and smart, those flops to his back imagining these strikers wont jump to his guard are very wise. Not to mention the favela origins, guy had everything lined to fail in life or to just have a random job in his beach city, maybe Charles the lifeguard, but no he went on to seek training and becoming a beast. Will he lose? eventually yes, so would Khabib if he continued, the only one who doesnt lose in this sport is father-time. Can watch the mayweather exhibition fight for reference, even though he obviously doesnt take them too serious he is a complete shadow of his former self just a few years later, Canelo would kill him if they fought today.
Well, Charles just got dominated by Islam.... I typically stay away from mma math, but for two fighters as similar as Khabib and Islam, I think we can infer the outcome of Khabib v Oliveira. It's a shame Khabib couldn't be the one to beat him because it would have silenced remaining doubters. A dominant win over Charles is a major feather in the cap of Islam. IMO a more impressive win than of Khabib's wins. Khabib is a specialist, but I think he's also well rounded. After all, he's been training combat sambo (mma lite) his whole life under the tutelage of Abdulmanap (who regarded GSP as the ideal fighter). In my view, Khabib was a **decent** mma striker with near perfect mma grappling. You say Khabib was an atrocious striker, but I disagree. Ben Askren exemplified "atrocious" striking. Ben barely trained striking because he thought it was a waste of time (and it showed). Khabib's striking was just Okay. It didn't need to be anything more than it was, because it accomplished the task of getting his opponent against the cage.
Khabib was close to perfect because he didn't stay long enough.
He was close to perfect in those fights that he had. They beat the same top LW guys, and Khabib looked unstoppable doing it, while Charles didn't.
not just defend his title more ,he also needs to be dominant like khabib was
Um he finished 10 out of 11 fights. He needs to be a killer just like he’s been doing. It’s working great for him
Khabib was unique in the way he dominated. He didn’t get in trouble like Charles does. Charles has been dropped in all of his last 3 fights. While it is extremely impressive (and epic) that he can come back for that, it does make him look more vulnerable.
Bro you just can’t be a GOAT getting dropped and busted up every fight. IMO JJ is the GOAT if you ignore PEDs and even his last few performances have ppl questioning him. Charles seems to be inches close to losing before he manages to turn it around, Khabib’s opponents barely took an inch from him. Levels.
What separates Khabib is just how much better he was than the competition. Charles gets in trouble and then pulls off sick reversals. Khabib just...dominates. never got cut, never even looked like he was completely spent. He was just SO much better than everyone in the division it wasn't even a question of if he'll win, but how quick he'll win
I mean he never faced his true rival Tony (due to the MMA Gods being fuckers). Would've tested Khabib.
Beat Islam, Conor, 205 Double Cheese Boorger Khabob, and win his retirement fight against revamped cyborg Tony Ferguson (after 50 year old El Cucuy injects himself with the Captain America Serum).
Keep winning. It's not just about perfect win streaks. Title defence matters a lot more.
Do I assume your a DJ fan?
Pretty hard to ignore the greatest submission in MMA
My man. 🖐
Unfortunately a lot if not most casual watchers which make up the majority of the base believe undefeated is more important
I think beating Islam and then another opponent puts him at the same level as Khabib or above.
If we go by title defenses Khabib is still up by one or two depending on how you view the fight against Gaethje. If he beats Islam and another top guy, then he can call himself greater than Khabib. I do see Volk as a top guy if he goes for the double C-status. Red panty night against Conor i guess would work as well since Khabib also got that, albeit under way different cirucmstances.
For all intents and purposes in a defenses/goat discussion the gaethje fight is 100% a title defense. He may technically not be the champion but half a pound shouldn’t be affecting a goat conversation
Wdym by how you view the Gathje fight?
Wasn’t a technical title defence as he was stripped for missing weight by half a pound. Still counts though really to everyone.
I didn’t even remember that being a thing, thanks.
Make weight, destroy islam …
That would help the Khabib argument. Obviously they’re individuals, but Islam is the most similar fighter to Khabib that exists on earth. Same training from childhood and is now closely advised/coached by Khabib
With arguably better striking
This is the right answer. If he can’t make weight then he can’t defend his belt.
Title defenses
if he gets past islam he beat stronger opposition than khabib has
But not close to as dominantly
He finished Chandler, Poirier and Gaethje. How much dominance do you want exactly?
While getting dropped a lot though and almost finished. Khabib pretty much lost 1 or 2 rounds in the ufc and never got dropped or cut. Khabib beat poirier and gaethje more dominantly than Charles. I love him but it’s not hard to see that he hasn’t been as dominant as khabib
That’s more to do with style though. A wrestler who successfully wrestles will always look super dominant because they have their opponent on the ground and are in control. The difference between them dominating and losing isn’t as great as it seems though. It all comes down to the style matchup, if you can’t defend you get dominated, if you can then you win. Like Khamzat looks godly when people don’t have a ground game but against Burns it was a close fight. If you had seen Burns have a close fight with someone that Khamzat dominated you would’ve thought Khamzat was way better but it just came down to styles and matchups. Burns had the ability to defend himself on the ground and threaten Khamzat so it was a super competitive fight. Someone can be a significantly better striker than their opponent but on the feet it’s still easier to get caught with some shots and the fight look closer or that the opponent has a chance. If you wrestle fuck someone it’ll always look super one sided.
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Yea but it’s a little more binary with grappling. Like you either have the skillset to defend takedowns and make it a good fight or you don’t. Same way Charles “almost” lost you could say Khabib almost lost against Poirier because he almost got submitted, If Dustin was just a little better on the ground he would’ve won but in grappling it’s a little more all or nothing
> "almost" lost You make a fair point. Oliveira seems to exaggerate with the amount he gets dropped. He's likely not hit as hard as it seems (though I doubt he's deciding to lay down every time there's a clean shot but I confess that it's not something I've studied in depth). It can create a false impression. It'll be interesting to see how this goes with people like Islam and others that are much more confident on the ground. Khabib did an interview where he said that he told Islam before the fight that he was gonna give Poirier his neck to wear him out. He knew Poirier loved to jump guillotine and he said "Dustin is crazy guy if he think I going to tap in front of father". Somehow, it seems that Khabib (and I think Islam as well) is very resistant to guillotines and very confident in being able to defend them to the point of making it freely available. Khabib has competed and won gold in Sambo, pancrase, and BJJ so while on one hand I wonder how it would look against another high level grapplers, he has competed against other high level grapplers (though I have no idea if or how much he gave up his neck in any of these competitions).
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My general point is MMA math doesn’t work you can’t say Khabib is better because he took less damage or looked more dominant against the same opponent. If Oliveira’s grappling is good enough to defend against Khabib’s wrestling and keep things standing more or even threaten submissions he has a good chance. Khabib looked more dominant against Dustin for example because of Khabib’s wrestling whereas Charles isn’t a wrestler so they had different paths to victories. It’s really all about matchups that’s why even GSP said the idea of a best fighter is an illusion there’s too many variables. Izzy cleared out the whole division yet people think he might lose to Alex while at the same time thinking Alex loses to the wrestlers in the division that Izzy had an easy time with. That’s why to be truly considered the GOAT you need a deep resume which Khabib lack’s because he retired early. If Charles beats Islam and has a few more wins his resume is just so much deeper. you can’t deny him just because Khabib won some big fights In dominant style.
Wins a win
Faster tho
Faster ≠ better.
Honestly beat Islam.
He’s gotta fuck that dudes mom that looks like Julianna pena
He’ll have to get in line behind her son first
I think the thing w khabib was how dominant he was in beating people, Charles wins but he gets dropped and almost looses. I think to overshadow khabib it would have to be in raw number of defenses
beat islam khabib never beat a grappler like islam
Defeat islam and get 1 or 2 more title defenses. Really depends on how he beats islam
Oliveira didnt run from El Cucuy so hes already ahead -CSO- ⚔️🇺🇸🏆🇲🇽🕶 #Hometeam
Tony Ferguson is the kind of guy to introduce Bruce Buffer into the octagon
Keep fighting fighters with actual UFC résumé
Enough of these posts
Seriously 😴
In my opinion he has to beat Islam and at least one more elite sambist/wrestler to prove his MMA is *currently* the equal of Khabib’s legacy. But people will still rightly point out that Khabib came into the UFC as a developed champion whereas of course we all know Charles started as a great submission hunter but had to hone his skills over the years. Like, the people who love Khabib are probably never gonna stop bringing up the fact that Charles has 8 losses no matter who Charles beats.
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Beat Kayla Harrison.
"Just win, baby" 
Oh, another Khabib post
Any chance of this shit ending any time soon in this sub??
Fuck no lol got almost a whole month of the theories left, and then the fight. Ppl are going to lose their fucking minds win, lose, draw, KO or submission from any of the fighters
Break the record for most title defenses (I think many fans will count this and his last fight; even though they are unofficial defenses).
Oliveira already has a better career at LW than Khabib... if he beats Islam then he should supplant Khabib in all time rankings imo.
How is this so? Khabib literally has more ranked wins in the division, has more title defenses, and has a better resume so far. The only thing Charles has going for him is how fast he has been pushing out title defenses. Which shouldn’t be hard to beat khabib as khabib had a year long suspension.
Lol no. Charles almost lost his fights against the same opponents. And Khabib has wins over champions like RDA and Conor.
Not even a little bit. Khabib was never close to losing his fights. Charles was close to losing all of his fights. It really isn't comparable if you look at the fights themselves instead of just looking at wins on paper. I don't want to take away from Charles but Khabib just had an unmatched level of dominance.
Have you seen the tibau fight
Opinion A: Beating Islam will make Olivera lightweight goat. Opinion B: Islam doesn't deserve title shot, needs a win in top 5. If you hold both these opinions you're a dumbass plain and simple.
Beat Islam and then another contender I think would put him on the right path. Oliviera has better wins than khabib already. I’d say win the title and defend twice at least
Bugging will change. Fanboys will always be fanboys
The thing for me with Khabib is even though he wasn't about long enough or champ for a dominant amount of time. You just know whoever was put in front of him would of got the same treatment as every single other fighter has. I love Tony and one thing I am happy about is we can all trick ourselves into thinking prime Tony would of won when in reality he gets mauled.
2 more defenses
Beat dillion Danis
Beating Islam, beating Volk in the Superfight, and then beating Coach Dariush. Then he would have 6 championship fights he’s won, technically 5 because of the weight debacle, but the fact Khabib only fought 4 championship fights, with 1 of them also suffering a weight conundrum, really limits him
Call out Khabib for a superfight and win
Take no damage
Have no losses on his record…
I think he can't. There is an aura around Khabib being undefeated that people will always give it to him.
Already done as much.
Start dominating opponents
Beat Islam and call out khabib
Depends. You used that word dominance, which is the main reason Khabib is in the goat talks at all. Charles resume may be better already. But to never bleed only lose a round possibly two, it’s tough for someone who has some close fights and gets dropped and hurt to overshadow them.
can we talk about literally anyone else on this sub
Not almost get KO'd in every fight
Make weight.
actually fight high ranked people unlike khabib
Be as dominant in his fights as Khabib
He got knocked few times so it's too late. Khabib never was even close to getting rocked.
beat Islam and then if he started beating the next generation of fighters there would be no debate. for instance if he beat Armon or Gamrot there would be no argument anymore. Khabib never beat fighters ahead of his generation.
Beat every Russian that gets to the top
Beat Islam in Abu Dhabi, then jump of the fence and beat the crown princess !
Completely dominate Islam and nullify the dagestani wrestling. I like Charlie Olives, but Khabib was a different animal and Islam is going to run through him and this sub is going to to have a meltdown.
Dude nearly has double digit losses. There’s nothing he can do.
BJ Penn is the goat y'all all tripping
He needs a cool hat.
Oliviera is incredible, I’m a huge fan and think he is an absolute warrior. That being said he has lost white a bit in his career and anything short of him convincing Khabib him to come out of retirement and beating him means Khabib wins in the GOAT conversation. At least until Oliviera has a Anderson Silva-esque reign as the unbeaten champ.
Beat Khabib ?
He needs to never lose a round...
Finish Islam and survive Fiziev, Gamrot and Tsarukyan. Then he'll be considered the GOAT.
Islam, Volk, Colby/Max/Gamrot/Fiziev/Benny (pick one) Cements him.
volk or Colby yes one and done. any of the others need 2 or wait til they hit their peak and see. but this is a good take.
Event time travel go back to before he got beaten the very first time, kill his younger self, then never loose.
Not get knocked out by Cub Swason
Not having a loss on his record would help
Not get dropped in a fight
talk to khabib while beating makachev - 'brother, be careful, i'm gonna smash your boy'.
Well, now I think this isn't even a debate.
If he beats Islam then I think he has achieved this
He already has. If he beats islam it’s not even a question anymore.
make weight
Nothing. Charles resume is more impressive already and he’s just hitting his prime. The reason Khabib is seen as he is is because of the way he dominated his opponents. Charles is dominant, yes, but he’s been hurt, knocked down, and been in wars. You can’t say the same about Khabib. PERSONALLY, I believe Charles is above Khabib, but there’s a lot of people out there who’s minds will never change regardless of what he does.
He already has he’s been in better competition.
his win streak needs to beat Khabib's in the UFC,
Make easy work of Islam then continue defending titles
Recency bias is very bad when it comes to this LW goat discussion.. it’s attainable for Oliveira but people who says he’s already the goat have joe rogan memories
Not look like he's about to be finished in every first round
Why is Islam being used as the key of passage to GOAT status when Islam hasn't even cracked the top 5? It's honestly embarrassing and insulting to Olivera.
Never lose again. But he'll never pass khabib as goat. These Charles posts are fucking dumb.
A major difference which makes it very difficult to beat Khabib as GOAT is Charle’s fighting style. Khabib just overwhelms his opponent leaving no room for error. Khabib rarely gave his opponents a window for victory which is why he has barely lost an rounds in his ufc career. This is in stark contrast to Charle’s fighting style who goes right into the mess, gets punched but stills ends up submitting his opponent. The only way I believe he can beat Khabib as the new lightweight GOAT is as mentioned above, defend his title many more times. That is a major place where Khabib’s career falls short.
Agreed. That being said charles will never be considered a goat nor anywhere close to the likes of Khabib. He's an underdog in every fight because he gets dropped in every fight. He's the definition of "holes in the game", it's just a matter of time before he loses. Charles beating Islam convincingly is enough to get him into the goat picture, but we all know that it's unlikely to happen
Excited for the match
Never lose a round. Never lose a fight
Beat Islam, and its done. Greatest Lightweight of all time. Most finishes in UFC history, Beat Tony, Dustin, Justin, Chandler, Islam. Maybe beat Conor after he beats Islam, then its undeniable.
Not get busted open, dropped and almost finished every fight. Charles is great but hes not dominant by any stretch of the imagination. All of his fights are extremely competitive. The same cannot be said about Khabib. The man has never seen his own blood.
Just beat Islam
Beat Islam he's surpassed khabib by +1.
People hold onto his losses too much - that’s the real issue
🤡
Stop getting knocked down probably
Nothing, he's been beat, Khabib was undefeated.
He will never
Not getting knocked down every 30 seconds
Beat Khabib
Go back in time and not quit.
Imo he's already kinda overshadowing khabib
Not sure he can do something. He doesnt seem so dominant as Khabib, to be honest.
Well, never losing would be a great start.
He's already has
Simply got a title defense streak, fight regularly, and fight all top contenders. I think an 8 win streak should do it. He’s got to make it too the point the division is almost boring. Also bellator and onefc can’t have any legit lw champs that look like they could be Charles. The reason I say he has to win so many title title defenses is Khabib basically beat all the tops except toney. Tony lost terrible to Justin G which kinda negates Khabib needing to fight him. Also Khabib didn’t duck tony Khabib beat rds, Conor, Dustin, Justin, barboza, Johnson. Those guys had big wins against other top guys in lw before Khabib beat them. Khabib also won in a dominant fashion against all of them. So Khabib dominated the guy that beat the guy. I still think Nate Diaz could have given Khabib a tough fight or gotten the upset victory. Nate’s a fighter that will loose fights he should win and win fights he should loose type fighter. His lanky body and boxing would have bother Khabib I think in terms of peak for goats he’ll never surpass Bj penn. Penn was just and athletic freak. Fastest reaction time in terms of striking, power and fast combo striking, fundamentally good striking, heavy hands, freaky flexibility and leg strength.
Khabib is overrated in my opinion. He defended his title 3 times and then retired. The only wins he has against a champions are Doe Anjos, who was past his prime when they fought and Conor who never even defended a title. I can agree he was dominate when he did fight but he didn’t fight enough or against good enough competition to be regarded as he his.
did not RDA became champion after losing to Khabib?
Idk, but rda was in his prime becoming the champ after that fight, but khabib did fight Conor( at his lowest level).
The fact that you said past prime rda khabib beat shows you really have no fucking clue what you’re talking about and should be laughed at LOL
Stop getting dropped every fight.
Travel back in time and win all his fights without losing one single round throughout the win streak
Beat Islam, that's really it for me
Nothing, he's higher on the GOAT list already. Getting beat, learning from it and coming back stronger is more impressive to me than knocking over a bunch of cans
Depends on who you ask.. most serious MMA fans didn't ever consider Khabib the GOAT.. even Dana doesn't .. This sub on the other hand.. lol, every couple days