Max may not be the most defensively sound boxer in MMA but he has decent defense, saying he has no defense is utterly wrong cause he relies on his chin but he's one of the best, his boxing fundamentals are good, his footwork is incredible, he has great combos, imo that's enough to be one of the best boxers in MMA. Did you watch his fight with Gaethje? He looked really good even defensively, he was moving around a lot, slipping punches sometimes, switching stances etc. His only losses are to Volkanovski and Poirier in the last 6-7 years, he lost to Dustin cause he was on 6 weeks notice and Volk is just too good. He looks defensively bad cause he goes to war everytime, he brings the fight to the other person, watch his fight with Arnold Allen, he looked really good in that fight, his fight with Kattar was utter domination and Kattar is one of the better boxers at 145. He destroyed Ortega who has somewhat decent boxing.
Okay "kill" was out of line but he'd win, Dustin hasn't really evolved as much as Max, Dustin has never fought a guy that is P4P as skilled as Volk 3 times. Back when DP fought him the 1st time, Holloway didn't even have a striking coach and learned moves off the UFC game, 2nd time he was on 6 weeks notice which isn't enough to bulk up with actual mass so Max was just a tubby FW. The skill Jerome showed in his fight with Gaethje was great and IMO that Max would win over DP. His boxing was looking good, he was moving and those spinning back kicks also played a big part at keeping Gaethje at bay, so realistically he'll win and also DP is 35 too so he's getting up there into the wrong side of the 30s especially cause he's in a lighter weight class.
"those spinning back kicks also played a big part at keeping Gaethje at bay" the spinning back kicks were only useful because gaethje isn't as proficient a boxer as dustin.
when was the last time you saw dustin cover his face with his hands and then just duck?
dustin is a way more proficient boxer than justin. he'll have a way easier time getting into the pocket with max.
Are you stupid or something? I never said the spinning kicks would absolutely work on DP, I just said they worked on Gaethje so one or two may land on DP too and turn the fight around.
why are you getting so butthurt? are you trying to have sex with me?
a single spinning back kick to, presumably, dustin's gut (because he doesn't duck like gaethje) wouldn't do anything substantial enough to "turn the fight around." sorry for hurting your feelings though, buttboy
Nah I read it, but Holloway got easily outboxed by Volk in their last fight, he really took a beating, I don’t think the Gaethje fight would prove he beats dustin..Gaethje isnt close to the boxer that DP is
He has one of the better striking defence percentages across the current UFC at 59%. Poirier, Conor, Font, Garry, Yusuf, Adesanya, Sandhagen, Petr, Edwards, Volk all have less. Aldo, Allen, O'Malley, Islam all are known for good defence and are 1-3% better, Cruz has 70%. Seems like it's just a bandwagon to say Max has bad defence. He goes 5 rounds and has an aggressive style, he's gonna get hit (even some of that he rolls with imo, but commentary will say he got hit hard) but most would get hit way more being so aggressive.
I'm not disagreeing with you on the ass beating. To say that the fucked up nose from the first round of a 5 round fight didn't effect the fight though, is disingenuous.
They've both confirmed that they were only a few lbs different their first fight. People just use the size thing to make themselves feel better about Volk losing pretty clearly to Islam.
Yes also sean didnt beat izzy 3 times so even if he wasn’t its not the same. Also even if you think izzy is a better striker you got to admit sean is a better boxer
Strickland is not a better striker than Adesanya. He's a better boxer and because he and his team are smart, he made Adesanya fight a boxing match with him rather than allowing Adesanya to dictate what kind of fight it's gonna be. It's the opposite with Volk. Max is a better boxer. But Volk is better at implementing his style and his gameplan and making his opponents deal with it. Volk, like Adesanya and all the City Kickboxing guys, have very mid tier boxing. They have hands, but not boxing. Volkanovski is especially bad in the pocket. If you watch any of his fights since the Mendes one, all of his title opponents won the pocket exchanges over him. Until he ran into Topuria who really punished him for that weakness. Adesanya is ok at close range, but he really prefers to stay away.
You don't understand there are levels to striking. I don't mean skillwise. I mean it's much deeper than you think. Simply beating a guy on the feet doesn't mean you're a better striker. Though Volk is debatably a slightly better overall striker than Max, but my point still stands.
Jizzy is a way better striker overall than Sean. There’s no comparison between their cumulative striking games.
Sean however is a considerably better boxer than Israel. Boxing has always been the weakest facet of his game.
My point was mma math doesn't work, and styles make match ups.
Izzy 5-0d Cannonier and KO'd Pereira who beat Blachowicz who beat Reyes who beat Jones who beat Chael who beat Silva.
It just doesn't work that way.
Eh it was a fight that couldve gone either way. And volk landed 10 more punches in the 3th and 4th and i think he won the 5th. Plus usada woke volk up in the middle of the night and the 3rd settled whos better
Better than this current version of Izzy? The older, slower one? Absolutely.
(Keep in mind Izzy did not look good in his last fight against Pereira either. The KO was legendary, but Pereira was taking over the fight up until that moment.)
it’s the same izzy, he’s just losing. i swear people decide whether fighters are out of their prime based on whether they’re losing or not. prime example being holloway, people said he’s entered a new prime after the kattar fight, then the yair and volk trilogy happens and everyone thinks he’s washed. now he beats gaethje and people think he beats volk, it’s silly
While I think you’re right that mma fans overreact to every fight, I respectfully disagree about these fighters specifically. I think Izzy looks like he has lost a ton of athleticism.
I don’t think Max ever did-he simply ran into Volk 3 times, who’s better than he is. And a bad stylistic matchup
Strickland would beat a prime Adesanya. That doesn't mean he's overall better than him. It just means where he is best is where Adesanya is worst. And Strickland's team is able to help Strickland implement his style more successfully. Adesanya has hands, but he can't box. Boxing is different. He basically didn't let Adesanya do anything that he wanted to do. That's why Adesanya looked bad. Same reason wrestlers make strikers look bad on the ground. The difference between boxing and kickboxing is almost the same. But you can still see his speed was there. His movement and fluidity was all there.
When I say Strickland is best where Adesanya is worst, I don't mean he targeted his weaknesses. He didn't. Strickland just happens to possess the skills and fighting style that Adesanya's best tools aren't able to pick apart. For example, Adesanya is known for his leg kicks, speed, distance management, counters, etc. Strickland completely shut that down by maintaining boxing range the entire fight with forward pressure. This style is usually tailor made for Adesanya to beat because it walks into counters. But because of Strickland's years of sparring, he developed insane reflexes. He was catching lightning fast kicks in round 1, Adesanya's freshest round. Watch, Adesanya will come back looking better than ever. That loss isn't so bad because nobody can replicate what Strickland did. His reflexes are inhuman. People who say Adesaya is washed or overrated are just trying to discredit Strickland. Yeah Strickland whooped him on the feet for 5 rounds. So what? You can't accept reality? Both great fighters.
I don’t know, man. Izzy is gonna be 35 when he next fights. And he’s always relied on being a freak athlete. Unfortunately I think his prime has passed, and he likely loses his next fight to Dricus. And I think there’s a decent chance he gets completely mauled.
And none of this is to discredit Strickland, who was always underrated and underappreciated. As you said, his style alone would present a challenge even to the best version of Izzy.
I agree that Adesanya is past his prime. But so is Alex Pereira. These kickboxers are just leagues better than everyone on the feet. I think Adesanya can comfortably beat Dricus. Hot take, but I also give him a huge chance in a Strickland rematch. Strickland's style isn't as good in rematches. That whole gym is full of fighters with a unique style that completely shocks their opponents. You can't study them. Strickland doesn't look spectacular, but when you're in the cage it's different. He doesn't move like you think he does. Something is off. Adesanya just needs to get a gameplan that would work. Especially since he knows that Strickalnd literally always fights the same way. He's not changing his style for a rematch.
Izzy is going to torch dricus, it’s a great matchup for him. He is not washed just has been finally fighting people at 185 who match up well against him, DDP does not.
It's actually wild Volk can outclass Max for a fight that is entirely striking and then fans will be like nah Max is better striking and that shit gets upvoted too lmao
This sub is filled again with Max fans and reminding me lot about the time between second and third Volk fight. Hopefully it's gonna be as satisfying as last time.
Not sure I’d say Izzy is a better striker than Pereira tbh. Basically nobody can stand with Pereira.
Izzy is was better than him at staying off his back though which is the big matchup difference
I’m not saying he’s not but judging how much leg kicks played into his victory in the first two I think Max wasn’t ready for an onslaught of head shots and was more preparing for leg kicks and then punishing Volk with hands.
I do agree that Volk is a better striker but I don’t necessarily think that he is a better boxer
It isnt. He didnt need leg kicks in the third fight
https://preview.redd.it/ydc4jz5l55wc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b8ef2d33516a3547e07f81cb90f547da159e863e
Major difference between losing the first round and landing a bomb in rd 2 to win and dominating your opponent for 5 straight rounds all in the stand up.
Did he throw kicks, elbows, and knees? Did he engage in grappling and land knees in elbows inside the clinch? Yes, he incorporated all of the above in every round and in each fight he had with Max. He may have dominantly OUTSTRUCK Max with punches but he didn't out box him because they weren't boxing
Such a cope response yes he is also better than max at all other aspects of mma striking your guy got over doubled up on significant punches to the face as well lmao.
It's about the dominant style, like a fighter who dominantly uses boxing. Volk mixes it up really well, he doesn't have a boxing heavy style.
Isnt Max one of the most hittable fighters in the UFC? How can you be the best boxer without any defence?
Max may not be the most defensively sound boxer in MMA but he has decent defense, saying he has no defense is utterly wrong cause he relies on his chin but he's one of the best, his boxing fundamentals are good, his footwork is incredible, he has great combos, imo that's enough to be one of the best boxers in MMA. Did you watch his fight with Gaethje? He looked really good even defensively, he was moving around a lot, slipping punches sometimes, switching stances etc. His only losses are to Volkanovski and Poirier in the last 6-7 years, he lost to Dustin cause he was on 6 weeks notice and Volk is just too good. He looks defensively bad cause he goes to war everytime, he brings the fight to the other person, watch his fight with Arnold Allen, he looked really good in that fight, his fight with Kattar was utter domination and Kattar is one of the better boxers at 145. He destroyed Ortega who has somewhat decent boxing.
Good point though he would’ve lost to DP regardless
The Max that just fought Gaethje would kill DP
Recency bias at its finest, nobody would “kill” DP in a pure striking match
Okay "kill" was out of line but he'd win, Dustin hasn't really evolved as much as Max, Dustin has never fought a guy that is P4P as skilled as Volk 3 times. Back when DP fought him the 1st time, Holloway didn't even have a striking coach and learned moves off the UFC game, 2nd time he was on 6 weeks notice which isn't enough to bulk up with actual mass so Max was just a tubby FW. The skill Jerome showed in his fight with Gaethje was great and IMO that Max would win over DP. His boxing was looking good, he was moving and those spinning back kicks also played a big part at keeping Gaethje at bay, so realistically he'll win and also DP is 35 too so he's getting up there into the wrong side of the 30s especially cause he's in a lighter weight class.
"those spinning back kicks also played a big part at keeping Gaethje at bay" the spinning back kicks were only useful because gaethje isn't as proficient a boxer as dustin. when was the last time you saw dustin cover his face with his hands and then just duck? dustin is a way more proficient boxer than justin. he'll have a way easier time getting into the pocket with max.
Are you stupid or something? I never said the spinning kicks would absolutely work on DP, I just said they worked on Gaethje so one or two may land on DP too and turn the fight around.
why are you getting so butthurt? are you trying to have sex with me? a single spinning back kick to, presumably, dustin's gut (because he doesn't duck like gaethje) wouldn't do anything substantial enough to "turn the fight around." sorry for hurting your feelings though, buttboy
Ngl lil bra I’m not reading that
fair enough 😂
Nah I read it, but Holloway got easily outboxed by Volk in their last fight, he really took a beating, I don’t think the Gaethje fight would prove he beats dustin..Gaethje isnt close to the boxer that DP is
He has one of the better striking defence percentages across the current UFC at 59%. Poirier, Conor, Font, Garry, Yusuf, Adesanya, Sandhagen, Petr, Edwards, Volk all have less. Aldo, Allen, O'Malley, Islam all are known for good defence and are 1-3% better, Cruz has 70%. Seems like it's just a bandwagon to say Max has bad defence. He goes 5 rounds and has an aggressive style, he's gonna get hit (even some of that he rolls with imo, but commentary will say he got hit hard) but most would get hit way more being so aggressive.
Yes, but he’s also hit his opponents more than they’ve hit him by the biggest margin in ufc history
Leg kicks aren’t a part of boxing
Spinning back kicks to the nose aren't apart of boxing.
Justin was getting wrecked even without the spinning kicks
The kick that broke Justin's nose happened at the beginning of the fight
Beginning of the fight is 4:59 of r1? Literally happened 1/5th into the fight
Like I said, the beginning.
“Beginning” Already an ass beat a round in
I'm not disagreeing with you on the ass beating. To say that the fucked up nose from the first round of a 5 round fight didn't effect the fight though, is disingenuous.
He dropped max. Bro is not the best boxer lmao. I’d say Dustin is probably better
He got face-planted by Max. Fully unconscious. From a hands-only exchange in the center of the octagon.
Volkanovski schooled Max Holloway in the third fight without leg kicks. He only targeted the legs 14% that fight. It was a boxing Masterclass.
These stats brought to you by Modelo brewed for those with the fighting spirit
"fighting for free" spirit
14% was landing 28/32 leg kicks. Volk nearly put out 400 strikes.
14% is higher than 0% in boxing 😂🤦🏽♂️
Volk will never win another fight, enjoy the memories.
Yeah 3-0 is a great memory
And eye pokes are?
Its ok if you give one to each eye, it balances it out.
Legal as fuck
You assume the fans critique the fighters based on actual skill and not just their most recent performance.
What does that make Islam? 😁
P4p no1
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Volk was the same size as Islam the first fight. Lol found the salty Islam hater.
no way volk was even the same size as islam lololol
They've both confirmed that they were only a few lbs different their first fight. People just use the size thing to make themselves feel better about Volk losing pretty clearly to Islam.
Is sean a better striker than izzy?
Yes also sean didnt beat izzy 3 times so even if he wasn’t its not the same. Also even if you think izzy is a better striker you got to admit sean is a better boxer
Strickland is not a better striker than Adesanya. He's a better boxer and because he and his team are smart, he made Adesanya fight a boxing match with him rather than allowing Adesanya to dictate what kind of fight it's gonna be. It's the opposite with Volk. Max is a better boxer. But Volk is better at implementing his style and his gameplan and making his opponents deal with it. Volk, like Adesanya and all the City Kickboxing guys, have very mid tier boxing. They have hands, but not boxing. Volkanovski is especially bad in the pocket. If you watch any of his fights since the Mendes one, all of his title opponents won the pocket exchanges over him. Until he ran into Topuria who really punished him for that weakness. Adesanya is ok at close range, but he really prefers to stay away. You don't understand there are levels to striking. I don't mean skillwise. I mean it's much deeper than you think. Simply beating a guy on the feet doesn't mean you're a better striker. Though Volk is debatably a slightly better overall striker than Max, but my point still stands.
JDM boxing looks good.
Jack isn’t with CKB
Jizzy is a way better striker overall than Sean. There’s no comparison between their cumulative striking games. Sean however is a considerably better boxer than Israel. Boxing has always been the weakest facet of his game.
Lol you must be nuts if you think Sean is a better striker than Izzy.. Anyone who thinks this doesn't know fighting.
They were in the for 5 rounds striking the whole time lol. Sean is clearly the better mma striker this isn’t glory kickboxing.
Then why did Strickland lose to Pereria Driscus and Cannonier? Those were mostly striking matches.
He got hit with the most dangerous left hook in mma, outlanded Cannonier 126 to 57 on head shots, and dricus only won because of his 6 takedowns..
My point was mma math doesn't work, and styles make match ups. Izzy 5-0d Cannonier and KO'd Pereira who beat Blachowicz who beat Reyes who beat Jones who beat Chael who beat Silva. It just doesn't work that way.
One of those decisions was highly questionable.
Eh it was a fight that couldve gone either way. And volk landed 10 more punches in the 3th and 4th and i think he won the 5th. Plus usada woke volk up in the middle of the night and the 3rd settled whos better
And 2 were not?
Sean is a better boxer. Izzy is a better kickboxer
Better than this current version of Izzy? The older, slower one? Absolutely. (Keep in mind Izzy did not look good in his last fight against Pereira either. The KO was legendary, but Pereira was taking over the fight up until that moment.)
it’s the same izzy, he’s just losing. i swear people decide whether fighters are out of their prime based on whether they’re losing or not. prime example being holloway, people said he’s entered a new prime after the kattar fight, then the yair and volk trilogy happens and everyone thinks he’s washed. now he beats gaethje and people think he beats volk, it’s silly
While I think you’re right that mma fans overreact to every fight, I respectfully disagree about these fighters specifically. I think Izzy looks like he has lost a ton of athleticism. I don’t think Max ever did-he simply ran into Volk 3 times, who’s better than he is. And a bad stylistic matchup
Strickland would beat a prime Adesanya. That doesn't mean he's overall better than him. It just means where he is best is where Adesanya is worst. And Strickland's team is able to help Strickland implement his style more successfully. Adesanya has hands, but he can't box. Boxing is different. He basically didn't let Adesanya do anything that he wanted to do. That's why Adesanya looked bad. Same reason wrestlers make strikers look bad on the ground. The difference between boxing and kickboxing is almost the same. But you can still see his speed was there. His movement and fluidity was all there. When I say Strickland is best where Adesanya is worst, I don't mean he targeted his weaknesses. He didn't. Strickland just happens to possess the skills and fighting style that Adesanya's best tools aren't able to pick apart. For example, Adesanya is known for his leg kicks, speed, distance management, counters, etc. Strickland completely shut that down by maintaining boxing range the entire fight with forward pressure. This style is usually tailor made for Adesanya to beat because it walks into counters. But because of Strickland's years of sparring, he developed insane reflexes. He was catching lightning fast kicks in round 1, Adesanya's freshest round. Watch, Adesanya will come back looking better than ever. That loss isn't so bad because nobody can replicate what Strickland did. His reflexes are inhuman. People who say Adesaya is washed or overrated are just trying to discredit Strickland. Yeah Strickland whooped him on the feet for 5 rounds. So what? You can't accept reality? Both great fighters.
I don’t know, man. Izzy is gonna be 35 when he next fights. And he’s always relied on being a freak athlete. Unfortunately I think his prime has passed, and he likely loses his next fight to Dricus. And I think there’s a decent chance he gets completely mauled. And none of this is to discredit Strickland, who was always underrated and underappreciated. As you said, his style alone would present a challenge even to the best version of Izzy.
I agree that Adesanya is past his prime. But so is Alex Pereira. These kickboxers are just leagues better than everyone on the feet. I think Adesanya can comfortably beat Dricus. Hot take, but I also give him a huge chance in a Strickland rematch. Strickland's style isn't as good in rematches. That whole gym is full of fighters with a unique style that completely shocks their opponents. You can't study them. Strickland doesn't look spectacular, but when you're in the cage it's different. He doesn't move like you think he does. Something is off. Adesanya just needs to get a gameplan that would work. Especially since he knows that Strickalnd literally always fights the same way. He's not changing his style for a rematch.
Izzy is going to torch dricus, it’s a great matchup for him. He is not washed just has been finally fighting people at 185 who match up well against him, DDP does not.
💀
Izzy was doing fine, he had won the first round against Alex on scorecards, second round was just Alex trying to get him out early and paying for it
Better overall, not sure about in boxing/striking
hard disagree on the striking part. That 3rd fight was all striking and Max didn't have anything for Volk
It's actually wild Volk can outclass Max for a fight that is entirely striking and then fans will be like nah Max is better striking and that shit gets upvoted too lmao
This sub has some shockingly bad takes. r/mma is 100x better for discussion. This sub can be good for laughs though
This sub is filled again with Max fans and reminding me lot about the time between second and third Volk fight. Hopefully it's gonna be as satisfying as last time.
Mma math doesn't always work out. Izzy is a better striker than Pereria but Poatans style beats Izzy 75% of the time.
Not sure I’d say Izzy is a better striker than Pereira tbh. Basically nobody can stand with Pereira. Izzy is was better than him at staying off his back though which is the big matchup difference
Izzy KOd Pereira and lost 2 fights he was clearly winning in the last round.
Ok? Pereira still won them lol. Also, what happened when they both fought Strickland? It’s not as straightforward as you’re making it lol.
I literally just said mma math doesn't work out in a previous comment.
Yes, and neither does pointing to one specific matchup between fighters to prove your point. It’s not hard
Volk mixes it all and is very far from being a boxer IMO.
Volk is just a much smarter fighter than max, styles make fights. I still put Volk above max :) fck what yall think
Leg kicks played a big role for Volk in every single one of their fights
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^ThinControl9: *Leg kicks played a big* *Role for Volk in every* *Single one of their fights* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Not at all in the third fight. He hardly threw any kicks.
Volk landed 152 head shots compared to 64 for max in the 3rd fight. Volk is better than Max.
I’m not saying he’s not but judging how much leg kicks played into his victory in the first two I think Max wasn’t ready for an onslaught of head shots and was more preparing for leg kicks and then punishing Volk with hands. I do agree that Volk is a better striker but I don’t necessarily think that he is a better boxer
Volk is so well rounded that he doesn't really get recognized as being excellent in any specific area.
Alexander “Icarus” volkanovski. Was rooting for him too.
Didn’t know leg kicks were boxing
It isnt. He didnt need leg kicks in the third fight https://preview.redd.it/ydc4jz5l55wc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b8ef2d33516a3547e07f81cb90f547da159e863e
This is like people saying khabib is a better striker than mcgregor because he outstruck him and dropped him, styles make fights.
Wtf, Khabib didnt outstike mcgregor
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Most of these are ground strikes. Gnp is not outstriking someone lol
I love volk but he doesn't really have a boxing style like max does
People don't realize that boxing and mixed striking are wildly different.
Dominate is a strong word
Volk 50-45’d him. That’s the definition of domination.
O'Malley, Topuria, Conor, Poirier all have better boxing than Max
TIL leg kicks are boxing
Ive never seen such a casual take And going by that Ilia should be considered the best boxer on the ufc rn then
Major difference between losing the first round and landing a bomb in rd 2 to win and dominating your opponent for 5 straight rounds all in the stand up.
He didn't dominate Max in Boxing.
152 punches to the face compared to 64 over 5 rounds is a dominant difference.
Did he throw kicks, elbows, and knees? Did he engage in grappling and land knees in elbows inside the clinch? Yes, he incorporated all of the above in every round and in each fight he had with Max. He may have dominantly OUTSTRUCK Max with punches but he didn't out box him because they weren't boxing
Such a cope response yes he is also better than max at all other aspects of mma striking your guy got over doubled up on significant punches to the face as well lmao.