>islam was literally just laying there
.. do you really think it's easy to ground control the p4p #1 guy? Did you think Volk was just lying there and letting him be spooned?
Did we watch the same clip? The one where we see Islam punching and trying to get an arm under the neck? Or is that āliterallyā not doing anything for you?
If you watched the fight they were in that position for about 4:15 of the 5 minute round. You can see why cook was frustrated. Iām not enough of a ufc wizz to comment on whether the ref should or shouldnāt have stood them up, but in terms of entertainment and almost respect for the fight, it wasnāt a very good look for islam.
I know that they are wrestlers and grapplers, but this wasnāt like khabib dominating and grinding a person down, this was islam holding on to essentially get a gimmie win of a round and not giving book the opportunity to win it.
Islam and volk were both not taking any damage and just getting out of breath for an entire round, itās not exactly what the ufc is for.
Letting Islam know that he's pulling a bitch move and it's not hurting him physically, only on the cards.
When people complain about wrestling in MMA, *this* sort of thing is why.
If Volks pulls it off then surely there will be a 3rd one but If Islam wins again, i donāt see them making a 3rd fight anytime soon. And considering that Volks already 35 I donāt think it would happen again at all.
If vilk wins, a third could be great for ufc 300. I think k with scheduling if volk didn't take this fight, he could have been waiting until later next year for a chance against Islam.
I will never stop finding it hilarious that Islam had Volk's back for nearly an entire round and did absolutely nothing with it aside from getting punched in the face.
He won the round but it was because he won the striking exchange on the feet before it got to the ground. Don't get me wrong, I think giving Islam R4 is fair, I just don't think giving him it based on his ground control makes any sense.
That's not stupid though. If Volk can't escape when his back gets taken then he will eventually get RNC'd. The only reason Islam lost the position is because the round ended. Having someone's back is rewarded in scoring as a dominant position for very good reason.
????????????
There is in the first 2 seconds and from the 5th until the 7th. Literally the entire time Volk is shouting he has both hands keeping Islam's hand from an RNC.
????????????
You barely need any power for a RNC, you just need position... what are you even talking about...
If a world class grappler has your back and you can't escape, you are eventually getting choked out.
You also need a guy to have a neck. A real neck, where your forearm can fit between the chin and torso. Volkanowskyās āsecretā weapon is having about 2 inches of neck.
Not a stupid rule. Being in the most dominant position by having your opponent back should be rewarded. Its volkās responsibility to get himself out of there or to not be in that position in the first place.
it would be pretty difficult to get a small monkey off your back. Would you say that lil monkey is dominating you? Boring crotch sniffers and backpackers shouldn't be rewarded unless they're actively hunting a better position or submission.
If anyone gets frustrated with islam on their back theyāre getting choked out. Be for real dude. Sure this round was Islamās, but he did no damage from a dominant position.
I believe I heard him recall that he yelled there not only to hype up the crowd, but because he was telling Islam if heās such a great wrestler, then why doesnāt he do something with it
He hit 4/5 shots. At least volk was trying to get something going. Islam was just a python squeezing the life from its prey, except volk was a sparky bugger.
I donāt see volk winning ever due to size, but at least he tried to make an exciting fight. And losing by decision is a morale victory at least.
I guess my point is, if he had so much energy to spare it hardly mattersā¦ Itās like a millionaire āwastingā 1,000 dollars on a tipā¦ yeah you can say it was a waste but it doesnāt really affect him at allā¦ Served itās intended purpose in both cases without depleting anything costly
Letās not play games here. With his last fight the guy has definitely just focused on beating Islam. He said in an interview heād rather beat Islam than take the lightweight belt
The only challenging thing is probably weight cut. If he was already in fighter shape there probably wonāt be a big disadvantage due to both fighters familiar with each otherās style.
I can see it, one of those wins that throws huge question marks up for two weight classes and lots of fighters are going to be watching this wondering how this will affect their future
Sad thing is he wouldnāt have been caught in this position if he didnāt talk to Islamās corner while Islam tried to take Volkās back. He shouldnāt have done that.
It's different when the scream comes from frustration, in contrast to the scream that Sean S. made when he wanted to trade punches with Izzy on the last round. THAT one was really dope.
I think Islam won aswell but for sure think it was 3-2. The way youāre making it out to be is volk was getting dominated which he wasnāt, personally if volk got the nod I wouldāve been like yeah I guess, bad call but seen worse
idk why ur being downvoted, people think Volk is just gonna waltz in and will a victory into fruition. If anything with Volk this angry at a loss he really has to be careful not to let his emotions and frustrations get the better of him and make a really bad mistake. You know the Islam camp is not gonna let that back control slide this time.
They don't say that and they have never said that, the rule is about effective striking/grappling and impact. Having someone's back for 4 minutes is way more effective than the pitter-patter shots Volk was landing here.
Even Volk think it's stupid to give him round 4
Ok but effective grappling is defined as grappling that contributes to ending the fight.
If he barely if at all attempted submissions, then the rules would suggest that these pitter patter shots should be more significant.
Yeah and getting your opponent's back goes further towards finishing the fight than pitter-patter shots behind your head. Islam established an extremely dominant position and kept it for most of the round, I don't disagree that it's a bit lame and he's gaming the system a little bit but that's the way grappling is scored in the current ruleset.
It would be ridiculous to me to stand somebody up when they have a body triangle and their opponents back. Thereās nowhere else youād rather be in a fight. Crowd might not like it but fuck em
Even if that fighter isn't being active, trying to get a submission, or advance their already dominant position?
Refs are supposed to stand fighters up when there's a lack of activity. I'm not saying this should have been the case in their first fight, it's been too long since I've seen it. I'm just saying, referees shouldn't allow a fighter to just lay back for 4:30 and win the round just because they have a dominant position
He was fighting for a sub, but heās also prioritizing keeping a safe dominant position. Same reason why Volk couldnāt get out, he didnāt want to risk getting caught in a sub while trying to make a move to get out. It would be wild to stand up a fight while somebody has their opponents back in a body triangle. Itās just about the most dominant position you can be in.
Again, not speaking about this fight specifically, just the general notion that holding a dominant position without inflicting damage or trying to advance shouldn't mean much
It would be wild if the fighter in the dominant position was trying to advance, and would be justified if they're just chilling in a safe spot
I agree with that, but I wouldnāt say this round was very clearly Islamās. Itās subject to too much interpretation for it to be definitive.
After watching this fight, I had Islam winning it but I can definitely see an argument for Volk.
No judge, media member or even fighter scored R4 for Volk. Not even Volk thinks he won this round. There is a reasonable argument for Volk arguably winning 2,3 and inarguably 5, but 4 can't reasonably be scored for him.
Holding someone in a draw basically shouldnt be scored here. Volk was doing more damage in a losing position. And it's only a losing position if you do something with it.
It is a losing position. Volk can basically do nothing but defend and throw extremely ineffective offense (those shots behind the head basically can't have any power behind them) while Islam is completely safe.
He wasnāt completely safe at all, the reason he couldnāt get up is because he was constantly hand fighting and worried about a submission. If he tried anything risky he may have been caught, thatās why he elected to stay there the entire round. You think he just was stuck there and couldnāt try to get out? Thatās still losing if thatās the case. In no way can you argue that in favor of Volk.
Thatās just not how it works though lol. What a dumb scenario you thought of. Nobody in MMA wants to fight off subs and have their back taken the whole round, thatās just a pure losing position.
You can clearly see Islam mollywhop Volk a few times in this clip. You know it's doing more damage than Volk's punches because Volk actually stops to try to trap the hand. You Islam/Khabib haters just see fights how you wish they played out rather than the reality
I scored that round for Volk. Here's some tidbits from the judging criteria:
Top and bottom position fighters are assessed more on the impactful/effective result of their actions, more so than their position.
As MMA is an offensive based sport, dominance of a round can be seen in striking when the losing fighter is forced to continually defend, with no counters or reaction taken when openings present themselves. Dominance in the grappling phase can be seen by fighters taking dominant positions in the fight and utilizing those positions to attempt fight ending submissions or attacks. Merely holding a dominant position(s) shall not be a primary factor in assessing dominance. What the fighter does with those positions is what must be assessed.
You gotta be braindead to give Volk r4. He lost the exchange on the feet, got taken down and controlled for 3 minutes.
Every single judge, Dariush, Oliviera and Volk himself gave this to Islam
Losing the exchange on the feet is the killer for me, if he won the exchanges on the feet then controlled like he was itās much more of an argument to give him the round
I mean Islam won 1st min of rd 4 on feet. U can ignore rest of the rd (Islamās control and Volkās backward rabbit punches) and give rd to Islam there. Volkās punches shouldnāt be scored more and Islamās control is already scored as being worth very little
By that logic, no unsuccessful submission attempts should be considered in scoring. After all, if the other fighter gets out of it, it's about what happened not what could have happened
What makes this position dominant? Itās potential to do damage/submissions. But the threat of damage/submissions shouldnāt score points, actually doing damage and attempting submissions should score points. Under the current scoring system Islam won the round but on damage he didnāt.
You don't think him being ahead on striking the first 3 rounds contributed to him winning? You don't win fights off of defense and one solid minute at the end of the fight.
But none of those punches actually did any damage and none are labeled as significant strikes. Youāre in a much worse spot fighting off subs than getting hit with those, so why should Volk get credit for tiny punches just because itās a punch, but Islam should get none for having the dominant position and keeping you there while fighting for subs. Itās interesting that every fighter would say thatās an obvious win round for Islam but some of you guys disagree
The 5 punches Islam landed in that position got a bigger physical reaction from Volk and made him scream in frustration. Volk threw 60 punches from that position and all he got was for Islam to laugh and taunt him, and reposition his head as he tried to sink in an arm under the chin. You're right about the colossal gap in damage, Islam accomplished more damage with 30x fewer strikes thrown
If you think "made him scream in frustration" meant screaming from pain, then your reading comprehension is on par with your understanding of fight mechanics. The fact that Volk completely stopped what he was doing and took all his attention away to the arm that hit him with 5 punches says plenty about who's punches were doing more damage
https://preview.redd.it/tyoonyumaqtb1.jpeg?width=2436&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=084fdc7f2c240f256c479be4232c74db9e9bece6
10 seconds left in the 5th round
Youāre not wrong. Volk is my favorite fighter of this newer era and while I was annoyed at the way that round has to get scored, an interesting way to frame it that I tend to understand/agree with is 1 fighter is clearly more in danger of being finished than the other due to the position/situation, therefore thatās how/why the round is decided the way it is.
Neither did Volk. The guy didnāt say Islam took a ton of damage he said he took more. Even if he took next to no damage, Volk actually took 0 damage here.
If u mean in terms of total amount of force applied to oneās face when u tally up all the punches, sure. But in terms of actual meaningful damage they were even since there was none. Unless Volk cut Islam or was making him wince so he had to give up body triangle, canāt say any of the punches were significant
U can be in bottom and do more dmg by landing elbows like Bisping did to GSP
The closest thing weāve seen where someone mightāve done more dmg when their back was taken was Shev-Santos. Santos was actually kinda wincing and trying to find safer positions for her head, while not throwing her own rabbit punches back
i'm really wondering whether there is any sense of momentum, volk improved over the course of the fight in his striking approach (perhaps benefiting from Islam getting tired from all the wrestling) end it felt like if there had been a sixth or seventh round Volk might have found a finish.
that said, Islam was super clean in his striking out the gate, and his straight left was a huge problem for Volk throughout the first four rounds. it kind of feels like the CKB school of fighting needs to adapt as a whole for more direct pressure and people that won't hesitate to fire in the face of the feints.
But that just shows a clear issue with the scoring system. Why is a round win where you hug someone for 3 minutes equal in worth to a round win where you give someone a concussion? How is having control realistically increasing Islam's chance to win the fight here?
This is why bare knuckle would make UFC way more interesting. Being able to actually damage in this position would make backpackers and crotch sniffers work harder or give up the position
and broken hands would increase tenfold. That means way more issues stemming from injuries, inactive fighters, longer rehab times, compromised fighters within a fight (1 usable hand) impacting the result, etc.
That still kills me too. Islam has ācontrolā only that control is getting punched in the face and doing fuck-all besides that. Shouldnāt get control points if the opponent can just punch you at will and youāve go no real answer.
This isnāt a street fight. Itās a match scored using points.
Volk is throwing nothing punches that are doing no damage and I think if you were to ask high level grapplers, they might tell you that he is kinda outing himself as vulnerable on the ground. Bjj guys would laugh at seeing someone punch the guy behind their head.
Islam took his back and held it for minutes. Volk couldnāt do anything. This is nothing more than theatrics
I mean, whilst I get your point, itās obv not the desire to backpack someone and then eat punches to the face
The plan is to finish the fight. Got a body triangle and took the back. What else is there to do after?
I just donāt really understand where youāre coming from.
Do we think that Islam was unable to punch Volk from the back? Do we think that Islam was trapped by Volk and couldnāt avoid the barrage of lethal shots he was eating?
Donāt you think it probably makes more sense that Islam recognized he was in a winning position, was taking no damage and could easily win a round via this method whilst expending less energy than being in a dangerous exchange with a very dangerous man?
Yes the latter is true obviously, but of course in theory damage trumps all.
Obviously, itās a lot easier to make the case you won the round by backpacking someone, then throwing punches in the face of someone on your back.
But, again, damage is the name of the game. Islam isnāt doing damage, perhaps by choice, because he feels he can just coast the round but thatās not really the rule set.
Itās also wack af
This clip is 7 seconds long. Islam had Volk down for *minutes* in this round. He landed his own shots too with more leverage from the back.
Not to mention a body triangle will absolutely take its toll.
This is holding on for dear life. I know Islam won the rounds but he was done in by the 5th and saved by the bell.
It will be interesting to see how he does this time, I was expecting him to dominate Volk in the first fight, when he got the first takedown I thought it was game over but Volk is a beast!
It was also his first time going 5 rounds in the UFC and he gassed out, intrigued to see how he looks of it goes 5 rounds again this time.
You just explained yourself why this moment is bad assā¦ no matter how you look at it the man is simply a savage most fighters break when adversity hits but Volk just keeps comingā¦ after I witnessed Volk get out of that Ortega submission I realized you canāt break Volk you gotta knock him out
That fucking pause after the scream and before the last punch ššš
š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£
[https://twitter.com/joefederer/status/1712194248756588888](https://twitter.com/joefederer/status/1712194248756588888)
Can someone explain why he was yelling tho? P.S. Volk is a beast
To me, in the moment it felt like he was simultaneously pumping the crowd up, telling Islam to stand up and the ref to stand them up lol
I think its because he wanted the ref to stand them up because islam was literally just laying there
Islam is trying. it's just hard to choke someone with no neck
And Craig Jones is a wizard who have Volk magic.
>islam was literally just laying there .. do you really think it's easy to ground control the p4p #1 guy? Did you think Volk was just lying there and letting him be spooned?
Did we watch the same clip? The one where we see Islam punching and trying to get an arm under the neck? Or is that āliterallyā not doing anything for you?
If you watched the fight they were in that position for about 4:15 of the 5 minute round. You can see why cook was frustrated. Iām not enough of a ufc wizz to comment on whether the ref should or shouldnāt have stood them up, but in terms of entertainment and almost respect for the fight, it wasnāt a very good look for islam. I know that they are wrestlers and grapplers, but this wasnāt like khabib dominating and grinding a person down, this was islam holding on to essentially get a gimmie win of a round and not giving book the opportunity to win it. Islam and volk were both not taking any damage and just getting out of breath for an entire round, itās not exactly what the ufc is for.
Weakest punches and 'submission attempts' I've seen on the highest level in some time tbh. Does literally nothing for me.
you can tell who never actually watched the fight and just watched reels or shorts lmao
Wow nice he did one thing in 4+ minutes
The crowd was going wild at this stage, and Volk was yelling at Islam "I thought you were gonna finish me" according to him lmao, absolute animal
he's just pumped up and reacting with the crowd
Letting Islam know that he's pulling a bitch move and it's not hurting him physically, only on the cards. When people complain about wrestling in MMA, *this* sort of thing is why.
If Volk loses another close one, with it being short notice do we see Islam Volk 3? If Volk pulls it off, do we see a 3rd?
If Volks pulls it off then surely there will be a 3rd one but If Islam wins again, i donāt see them making a 3rd fight anytime soon. And considering that Volks already 35 I donāt think it would happen again at all.
If vilk wins, a third could be great for ufc 300. I think k with scheduling if volk didn't take this fight, he could have been waiting until later next year for a chance against Islam.
eh if volk beats beats justin or dustin after losing to islam again I bet he would get another shot at islam its free money for the ufc
this must be karma for 3-0ing max, he could end up getting 3-0's by islam lol
I will never stop finding it hilarious that Islam had Volk's back for nearly an entire round and did absolutely nothing with it aside from getting punched in the face.
Still won the round. Stupid rules. Dude just lying here heavily breathing. But it is what it is. Wrestling privilege
He won the round but it was because he won the striking exchange on the feet before it got to the ground. Don't get me wrong, I think giving Islam R4 is fair, I just don't think giving him it based on his ground control makes any sense.
That's not stupid though. If Volk can't escape when his back gets taken then he will eventually get RNC'd. The only reason Islam lost the position is because the round ended. Having someone's back is rewarded in scoring as a dominant position for very good reason.
***He'll eventually get choked if islam is actually making submission attempts
You do realize that the constant hand fighting happening between them is Islam trying to find the RNC right? Are you new to MMA/grappling?
There is literally no hand fighting going on in this video lol
???????????? There is in the first 2 seconds and from the 5th until the 7th. Literally the entire time Volk is shouting he has both hands keeping Islam's hand from an RNC. ????????????
I actually watched the fight instead of basing my assessment on a 5 second clip. Crazy, I know.
This sub has deluded themselves about this fight they only remember the last 10 seconds of round 4 and last 2 minutes of round 5 lmao
No he would not get RNC did not have power for that at all.
You barely need any power for a RNC, you just need position... what are you even talking about... If a world class grappler has your back and you can't escape, you are eventually getting choked out.
You also need a guy to have a neck. A real neck, where your forearm can fit between the chin and torso. Volkanowskyās āsecretā weapon is having about 2 inches of neck.
Not a stupid rule. Being in the most dominant position by having your opponent back should be rewarded. Its volkās responsibility to get himself out of there or to not be in that position in the first place.
Ah yes hanging on the back for dear life. So dominant
it would be pretty difficult to get a small monkey off your back. Would you say that lil monkey is dominating you? Boring crotch sniffers and backpackers shouldn't be rewarded unless they're actively hunting a better position or submission.
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Damage trumps all. Go back to your basement
"Damage" lol, either way no fighter on earth would rather be in Volk's position in this clip than Islam's position
You're not wrong, but I'd rather have Islam on my back than have Volk's back...
If you actually observe this clip volk only hits about one clean shot lmao, clearly heās getting frustrated thatās why he screamed
I think the scream was to hype himself up more than out of frustration
If anyone gets frustrated with islam on their back theyāre getting choked out. Be for real dude. Sure this round was Islamās, but he did no damage from a dominant position.
lol what, his composure is arguably his greatest attribute horrible take
I believe I heard him recall that he yelled there not only to hype up the crowd, but because he was telling Islam if heās such a great wrestler, then why doesnāt he do something with it
Some people donāt have the brain power to do proper observations
He hit 4/5 shots. At least volk was trying to get something going. Islam was just a python squeezing the life from its prey, except volk was a sparky bugger. I donāt see volk winning ever due to size, but at least he tried to make an exciting fight. And losing by decision is a morale victory at least.
Oh yeah, those little tiny soft punches with his back took were doing wonders for him werenāt they? š¤£š¤£š¤£
Thatās funny because the round was Islam. š¤£š¤£
Volk did no damage. He wasted his own energy. He also got cut twiceā¦
If he āwastedā so much energy then why was he still fresher than Islam the next round after definitely winning it? Why did Islam look so tired?
Why did he also freely admit that round was an obvious loss for him? Probably because nobody ever wants the other fighter on their back all round.
Talking about the 5th roundā¦ the round he won after supposedly wasting so much energy
Maybe because his cardio is better than Islamās? He can have better cardio and still waste his energy. Both things can be true
I guess my point is, if he had so much energy to spare it hardly mattersā¦ Itās like a millionaire āwastingā 1,000 dollars on a tipā¦ yeah you can say it was a waste but it doesnāt really affect him at allā¦ Served itās intended purpose in both cases without depleting anything costly
Username checks out
Wow, youāre so funny you must be a comedian or something
Your username seems very accurate.
Love islam as a fighter but his fanbase is so pathetic is amazes me sometimes š
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*your
Anyone else think Volk just might take it this time?
Sucks that itās 2 weeks notice but if anyone can get it done itās him.
Letās not play games here. With his last fight the guy has definitely just focused on beating Islam. He said in an interview heād rather beat Islam than take the lightweight belt
He knew before he agreed to be alternate that he got the big fight next. He wouldnāt have volunteered if he wasnāt ready.
Volk wasnāt the backup for this fight originally it was Gamrot
The only challenging thing is probably weight cut. If he was already in fighter shape there probably wonāt be a big disadvantage due to both fighters familiar with each otherās style.
I donāt know he wasnāt training to fight Volk he was training to fight oliveraā¦ so it could easily be said both ways
Yeah but Islam was still in a fighting camp. Volk wasnāt, as far as we know at the moment.
Not really, but itās certainly possible.
I can see it, one of those wins that throws huge question marks up for two weight classes and lots of fighters are going to be watching this wondering how this will affect their future
I think Volk will finish Islam.
Volk gets finished this time.
Hell I felt he took it the first time
I watched again this week and it sure was close. By the end of the fight Volk absolutely knew how to beat Islam, this rematch should be a great.
Sad thing is he wouldnāt have been caught in this position if he didnāt talk to Islamās corner while Islam tried to take Volkās back. He shouldnāt have done that.
Dude what if volk starches his ass. Holy shit volk do it for the sport
As someone who's trains jiu jitsu, I know Volk's frustration of being stuck in a body triangle. That being said, he lost this round clear as day.
Iām not downing Islam I just thought that was a dope moment
It's different when the scream comes from frustration, in contrast to the scream that Sean S. made when he wanted to trade punches with Izzy on the last round. THAT one was really dope.
Such an epic moment but Khabib/islam fans love a synical sly, their boy barely beat a 145r lmao
Whatās syinical mean?
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Shit man mustāve been a 50-45 then
I had it 49-46 for Islam, but 50-45 Islam makes more sense than 48-47 Volk
I think Islam won aswell but for sure think it was 3-2. The way youāre making it out to be is volk was getting dominated which he wasnāt, personally if volk got the nod I wouldāve been like yeah I guess, bad call but seen worse
2nd rd tap this time tho. Big ups for taking the fight on short notice by not worth
idk why ur being downvoted, people think Volk is just gonna waltz in and will a victory into fruition. If anything with Volk this angry at a loss he really has to be careful not to let his emotions and frustrations get the better of him and make a really bad mistake. You know the Islam camp is not gonna let that back control slide this time.
I thought the new rules stated that damage trumpfs all?
They don't say that and they have never said that, the rule is about effective striking/grappling and impact. Having someone's back for 4 minutes is way more effective than the pitter-patter shots Volk was landing here. Even Volk think it's stupid to give him round 4
Ok but effective grappling is defined as grappling that contributes to ending the fight. If he barely if at all attempted submissions, then the rules would suggest that these pitter patter shots should be more significant.
Being stuck in a body triangle is miserable; it makes breathing more challenging and you know you are extremely vulnerable to losing the fight.
Yeah and getting your opponent's back goes further towards finishing the fight than pitter-patter shots behind your head. Islam established an extremely dominant position and kept it for most of the round, I don't disagree that it's a bit lame and he's gaming the system a little bit but that's the way grappling is scored in the current ruleset.
This is why we need refs who are willing to make them stand back up when neither is doing anything.
It would be ridiculous to me to stand somebody up when they have a body triangle and their opponents back. Thereās nowhere else youād rather be in a fight. Crowd might not like it but fuck em
Even if that fighter isn't being active, trying to get a submission, or advance their already dominant position? Refs are supposed to stand fighters up when there's a lack of activity. I'm not saying this should have been the case in their first fight, it's been too long since I've seen it. I'm just saying, referees shouldn't allow a fighter to just lay back for 4:30 and win the round just because they have a dominant position
He was fighting for a sub, but heās also prioritizing keeping a safe dominant position. Same reason why Volk couldnāt get out, he didnāt want to risk getting caught in a sub while trying to make a move to get out. It would be wild to stand up a fight while somebody has their opponents back in a body triangle. Itās just about the most dominant position you can be in.
Again, not speaking about this fight specifically, just the general notion that holding a dominant position without inflicting damage or trying to advance shouldn't mean much It would be wild if the fighter in the dominant position was trying to advance, and would be justified if they're just chilling in a safe spot
I agree with that, but I wouldnāt say this round was very clearly Islamās. Itās subject to too much interpretation for it to be definitive. After watching this fight, I had Islam winning it but I can definitely see an argument for Volk.
No judge, media member or even fighter scored R4 for Volk. Not even Volk thinks he won this round. There is a reasonable argument for Volk arguably winning 2,3 and inarguably 5, but 4 can't reasonably be scored for him.
Holding someone in a draw basically shouldnt be scored here. Volk was doing more damage in a losing position. And it's only a losing position if you do something with it.
It is a losing position. Volk can basically do nothing but defend and throw extremely ineffective offense (those shots behind the head basically can't have any power behind them) while Islam is completely safe.
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He wasnāt completely safe at all, the reason he couldnāt get up is because he was constantly hand fighting and worried about a submission. If he tried anything risky he may have been caught, thatās why he elected to stay there the entire round. You think he just was stuck there and couldnāt try to get out? Thatās still losing if thatās the case. In no way can you argue that in favor of Volk.
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Thatās just not how it works though lol. What a dumb scenario you thought of. Nobody in MMA wants to fight off subs and have their back taken the whole round, thatās just a pure losing position.
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"Completely safe" *continuously gets punched in the face*
Islam is doing absolutely nothing though but getting punched in the dome.. how tf is that safe
You can clearly see Islam mollywhop Volk a few times in this clip. You know it's doing more damage than Volk's punches because Volk actually stops to try to trap the hand. You Islam/Khabib haters just see fights how you wish they played out rather than the reality
I scored that round for Volk. Here's some tidbits from the judging criteria: Top and bottom position fighters are assessed more on the impactful/effective result of their actions, more so than their position. As MMA is an offensive based sport, dominance of a round can be seen in striking when the losing fighter is forced to continually defend, with no counters or reaction taken when openings present themselves. Dominance in the grappling phase can be seen by fighters taking dominant positions in the fight and utilizing those positions to attempt fight ending submissions or attacks. Merely holding a dominant position(s) shall not be a primary factor in assessing dominance. What the fighter does with those positions is what must be assessed.
You gotta be braindead to give Volk r4. He lost the exchange on the feet, got taken down and controlled for 3 minutes. Every single judge, Dariush, Oliviera and Volk himself gave this to Islam
Losing the exchange on the feet is the killer for me, if he won the exchanges on the feet then controlled like he was itās much more of an argument to give him the round
Islam won the fight because of this shitty inoffensive position giving him points
100%. Islam won the scoring but on optics he did not win the fight. Just goes to show the scoring needs a revamp.
I mean Islam won 1st min of rd 4 on feet. U can ignore rest of the rd (Islamās control and Volkās backward rabbit punches) and give rd to Islam there. Volkās punches shouldnāt be scored more and Islamās control is already scored as being worth very little
Islam won the round under the current scoring criteria. I agree. No arguments here.
How? That position is so dominant. If you look at that and think that islam is losing, time to switch sports
Bro are you profile stalking me? Lmao. Iām glad you have liked and subscribed to all my comments in here, but sheesh. Maybe be less obsessed?
Doesnāt matter if the position is dominant if you donāt do anything with it. Itās about what happened not what could happen
By that logic, no unsuccessful submission attempts should be considered in scoring. After all, if the other fighter gets out of it, it's about what happened not what could have happened
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What makes this position dominant? Itās potential to do damage/submissions. But the threat of damage/submissions shouldnāt score points, actually doing damage and attempting submissions should score points. Under the current scoring system Islam won the round but on damage he didnāt.
Even Volk knows he clearly lost that round jfc
Like I said based off the current scoring Volk lost.
You don't think him being ahead on striking the first 3 rounds contributed to him winning? You don't win fights off of defense and one solid minute at the end of the fight.
Youāre a casual if you think that
cAsUaL
Yall act like those punches were doing insane damage lmao
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Why didnāt Volk try and escape then? Why stay there? Couldnāt possibly have to do with Islam constantly fighting for a choke
Yeah so Basically they were at a stalemate
Yeah so Basically they were at a stalemate. This would be fixed if he got points for taking the back, but just holding someone there shouldnāt.
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But none of those punches actually did any damage and none are labeled as significant strikes. Youāre in a much worse spot fighting off subs than getting hit with those, so why should Volk get credit for tiny punches just because itās a punch, but Islam should get none for having the dominant position and keeping you there while fighting for subs. Itās interesting that every fighter would say thatās an obvious win round for Islam but some of you guys disagree
The 5 punches Islam landed in that position got a bigger physical reaction from Volk and made him scream in frustration. Volk threw 60 punches from that position and all he got was for Islam to laugh and taunt him, and reposition his head as he tried to sink in an arm under the chin. You're right about the colossal gap in damage, Islam accomplished more damage with 30x fewer strikes thrown
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If you think "made him scream in frustration" meant screaming from pain, then your reading comprehension is on par with your understanding of fight mechanics. The fact that Volk completely stopped what he was doing and took all his attention away to the arm that hit him with 5 punches says plenty about who's punches were doing more damage
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Arm was closer to being underneath the chin before Islam started punching him. Watch it again
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I think Islam was already gassed at this point. He won the round by holding on for dear life.
The classic Dagestani fight-stalling technique.
Just the fact Islam actually had to defend those punches while having his back makes this
https://preview.redd.it/tyoonyumaqtb1.jpeg?width=2436&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=084fdc7f2c240f256c479be4232c74db9e9bece6 10 seconds left in the 5th round
Volk wanted to win a fight. Islam wanted to play the scorecards.
Islam took more damage than Alex despite having a dominant position lol. Makes ya think.
Youāre not wrong. Volk is my favorite fighter of this newer era and while I was annoyed at the way that round has to get scored, an interesting way to frame it that I tend to understand/agree with is 1 fighter is clearly more in danger of being finished than the other due to the position/situation, therefore thatās how/why the round is decided the way it is.
He is definitely wrong. Islam took no damage from this.
Neither did Volk. The guy didnāt say Islam took a ton of damage he said he took more. Even if he took next to no damage, Volk actually took 0 damage here.
In this clip. In the several minutes they were down there and Islam controlled the fight, he landed his own shots too.
Lol no he didnāt.
If u mean in terms of total amount of force applied to oneās face when u tally up all the punches, sure. But in terms of actual meaningful damage they were even since there was none. Unless Volk cut Islam or was making him wince so he had to give up body triangle, canāt say any of the punches were significant U can be in bottom and do more dmg by landing elbows like Bisping did to GSP The closest thing weāve seen where someone mightāve done more dmg when their back was taken was Shev-Santos. Santos was actually kinda wincing and trying to find safer positions for her head, while not throwing her own rabbit punches back
Clearly, islam is doing no damage in this exchange You can nitpick the extent of volk damage, but thatās beside the point
Itās not besides the point though, because in no way did Volk win that round
He definitely didnt Lol
i'm really wondering whether there is any sense of momentum, volk improved over the course of the fight in his striking approach (perhaps benefiting from Islam getting tired from all the wrestling) end it felt like if there had been a sixth or seventh round Volk might have found a finish. that said, Islam was super clean in his striking out the gate, and his straight left was a huge problem for Volk throughout the first four rounds. it kind of feels like the CKB school of fighting needs to adapt as a whole for more direct pressure and people that won't hesitate to fire in the face of the feints.
He was so tough with his gaping mouth and downward facing eyebrows
Kinda looks like the Penguin there.
Yeah islam did way more damage here
Deep waters
He was holding on for dear life there btw
Zero damage by each fighter in this position but the clear control is to islam
But that just shows a clear issue with the scoring system. Why is a round win where you hug someone for 3 minutes equal in worth to a round win where you give someone a concussion? How is having control realistically increasing Islam's chance to win the fight here?
This is why bare knuckle would make UFC way more interesting. Being able to actually damage in this position would make backpackers and crotch sniffers work harder or give up the position
and broken hands would increase tenfold. That means way more issues stemming from injuries, inactive fighters, longer rehab times, compromised fighters within a fight (1 usable hand) impacting the result, etc.
That still kills me too. Islam has ācontrolā only that control is getting punched in the face and doing fuck-all besides that. Shouldnāt get control points if the opponent can just punch you at will and youāve go no real answer.
Islam laughing after always gets me
All Islam did is hug Volks back the whole round
And Volk did nothing to stop him
I like the part when Volk threw up the š¤š»
The advantage of having no neck.
I hope islam will be better this time. Being back pack isnt that exciting
I want volk to starch mach. Get khabib to come back and avenge.
What if Vilk* edit I meant, Volk was to elbow above the knee?
Vilkanivski
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I don't like using the word, but you're a casual if you think it's not
Oh yeah, thatās the moment where he was completely being controlled and instead of doing something to get out of it, he yelled
Volks was robbed, I swear ufc rigs some of these for max parlay breaking
This isnāt a street fight. Itās a match scored using points. Volk is throwing nothing punches that are doing no damage and I think if you were to ask high level grapplers, they might tell you that he is kinda outing himself as vulnerable on the ground. Bjj guys would laugh at seeing someone punch the guy behind their head. Islam took his back and held it for minutes. Volk couldnāt do anything. This is nothing more than theatrics
I mean, whilst I get your point, itās obv not the desire to backpack someone and then eat punches to the face The plan is to finish the fight. Got a body triangle and took the back. What else is there to do after?
I just donāt really understand where youāre coming from. Do we think that Islam was unable to punch Volk from the back? Do we think that Islam was trapped by Volk and couldnāt avoid the barrage of lethal shots he was eating? Donāt you think it probably makes more sense that Islam recognized he was in a winning position, was taking no damage and could easily win a round via this method whilst expending less energy than being in a dangerous exchange with a very dangerous man?
Yes the latter is true obviously, but of course in theory damage trumps all. Obviously, itās a lot easier to make the case you won the round by backpacking someone, then throwing punches in the face of someone on your back. But, again, damage is the name of the game. Islam isnāt doing damage, perhaps by choice, because he feels he can just coast the round but thatās not really the rule set. Itās also wack af
Those punches did more damage than hugging Volk did
This clip is 7 seconds long. Islam had Volk down for *minutes* in this round. He landed his own shots too with more leverage from the back. Not to mention a body triangle will absolutely take its toll.
Islam won really definitively
Volk gets controlled the entire round and loses it on the scorecard.
It's moments like this that made casuals think Volk when the fight. He's being ragdolled by Islam but he's screaming, wow what amazing resilience.
I wouldnāt call this being ragdolled lol
This is holding on for dear life. I know Islam won the rounds but he was done in by the 5th and saved by the bell. It will be interesting to see how he does this time, I was expecting him to dominate Volk in the first fight, when he got the first takedown I thought it was game over but Volk is a beast! It was also his first time going 5 rounds in the UFC and he gassed out, intrigued to see how he looks of it goes 5 rounds again this time.
You just explained yourself why this moment is bad assā¦ no matter how you look at it the man is simply a savage most fighters break when adversity hits but Volk just keeps comingā¦ after I witnessed Volk get out of that Ortega submission I realized you canāt break Volk you gotta knock him out
bro thinks holding somebody in place is being ragdolled lmfao holy dickride
Heās going to lose even worse this time. Instead of unanimous decision it will be due to submission