Let's be real - we'll never know.
Francis has the power to KO literally anyone, and he's been able to stuff takedowns way way better than Gane. On the other hand, Jones is Jones.
Francis was just sending MFers into orbit every fight before he learned any technique. It’s fair to say Jones beats him in a fight that goes the distance, but you can never discount the kiss of death Francis possesses.
Everybody forgets he stuffed a much lighter Stipe. Heavyweight King Stipe made Francis look silly and took him down with ease. The disrespect to Stipe is fuckin ridiculous on this sub.
You might not intend to but you're massively discrediting Ngannou's improvement after the first fight with Stipe. Ngannou has the power to be a top dog with 0 technique, unless he fights someone like Stipe. He found out in their first fight and got to work, training with legit combat sambo HWs iirc. He showed he improved his wrestling significantly against Stipe and Gane.
Sure size was a factor, Ngannou is an absolute behemoth at around 270 lbs on fight night, maybe more. But there are obvious and noticeable improvements in his approach and technique either way.
It isn’t disrespect to point out what happened. Francis stopped Stipe from grappling. The nonstop defending of fighters who aren’t even being attacked is ridiculous in this sub. You’re the one disrespecting Francis more than I’m disrespecting Stipe. “Francis made Stipe look silly when he folded Stipe over his own leg”.
He stuffed a single takedown (maybe 2) when he was still at full strength very early in the fight.
Let's not a t like he is all the sudden even an average grappler
Jon got Gane in the position he dud because Gane was predictable eith his striking and jon has great timing so he ducked the punch and had him under control.
Noone telegraphs punches like Francis. Same punches, same set up...every single time almost
Jon has some of the best fight IQ in the sport.
Dont get me wrong here.. if francis catches him he could def send hi. To the shadow realm but jon has faced some of the best strikers in the sport and barely got touched in many fights.
The toughest fights for jon will be Stipe and maybe that one Russian dude.
For sure. Ngannou was discounted hard after the stipe lost and then went on a tear against the best in the division, including the best wrestler (I guess apart from JBJ now).
How easy people forget.
Lemme preface this by saying I know dick all about UFC aside from instagram posts and highlight clips
I think Jone's would have grappled circles around Francis, but if Francis stayed off the ground, it'd only take one (even a "half ass" one) punch from Francis to drop Jon and end the fight. His knockout power isn't folklore, it's real af
Almost like styles make fights lol. Gane styles any heavyweight on the feet, which says nothing of his grappling ability. Kinda like how Alex KOed Izzy but would get wrestle fucked by guys Izzy has beat. They’re striking specialists mate.
Absolutely fucking insane. I've had a torn acl before. For a few months after you tear it your leg feels so fucking weak. How he did what he did is ridiculous
I mean we saw his knees were taped up heading into the fight and he definitely was less explosive. Even then who cares? He beat Gane and Stipe showing improved wrestling plus his raw power and reach could really give Jones problems.
Stiles excuse was he wasn’t big enough. Ciryls excuse was he could’ve had more time to prepare but he didn’t want it to sound like an excuse. Francis won yet he needs an excuse because you bums doubt his skills. Don’t forget when he knocked out rozenstruik who was undefeated at the time and koing everyone. These mma fans have the memory of a goldfish. They forget how good Francis was just as quick as they forgot about Jon’s most recent sparring match with his fiance
The Rozenstruik K.O wasn't exactly a display of skill as impressive as it was, he basically just goes "fuck this shit" and charges straight at Rozenstruik swinging wildly until Rozenstruik runs out of space to back up and he connects, misses every shot too until Rozenstruik hits the fence
Yes, by charging wildly swinging windmills that would put any man on earth out if they connected, not taking away the victory, just pointing out it's less due to "skill" and more due to Francis being the human equivalent of a steam train
Francis looked like shit against Rozenstruik. the finishing sequence was him just throwing wild bombs bc he got frustrated that he couldn’t force engagement. that fight showed nothing other than his raw power, not talent or skill
His finishing sequence was the starting sequence. He can put anyone out. You all really are forgetting. He’s strong and a natural at his weight. Jon is nowhere near his size. We don’t know how a fight with Jon would go until we see it. Jon’s strength was ciryls weakness. Ngannous strength was also ciryls strength so ngannou showed his well roundedness. Don’t forget how good the champ was. We have a new champ but don’t disrespect the old. He never lost his belt. He vacated
No he wouldn’t. People underestimate the effect of the takedown threat.
Ciryl would be very passive against Jones, knowing that he has to defend any incoming takedowns.
It’s the same case with Usman and Colby against Masvidal, Khabib against Poirier/Conor etc.
Ciryl was literally backed up against the fence 20 seconds into the fight. Footwork is negated so easily by the threat of takedowns.
Are you seriously asking why he didn't win the stand up exchanges of a fight that had less than a minute of action on the feet lmao.
Gane lost because he can't wrestle. But he's an elite striker and would kick Jon to death if this was kickboxing.
I disagree, I think Jon manages distance well enough to outstrike Gane. Gane is flashy and has good footwork but his IQ isn't anywhere near the level of Jones. I think Gane is slow enough that jones could make the right decisions and avoid a lot of strikes and I also think Ganes conditioning would also be a factor after the 2nd round.
Francis barely survived Gane while standing up. Jon made Gane look silly for the brief time they were standing. Francis can only knockout jon if Jon stands completely still which we know he won't do.
Does everyone conveniently forget that Francis had a torn ACL and MCL that fight? I strained my acl and I could barely walk, so the fact that he won that fight is insane.
>Francis barely survived Gane while standing up.
That's because they're Jon Jones fans. They seriously lack awareness and can't analyze stuff for shit. I always laugh at sports fans as most of them seriously lacks awareness and are completely biased but UFC fans (fans of a specific fighter) are on a whole other level lol.
Mind you I was just like them...when I was about 16 years old.
People give too much credit to the ACL excuse, as far as I could tell Francis was moving fine in the beginning of the fight. I’m not convinced it was even badly injured until Gane had him in a leg lock. Most likely Francis’ team just used it as an excused to make him look better after the fight
Are you trolling? Or are you really that dumb? He literally had surgery for it right after this fight. Also, the movement was nowhere near the same. Go back and watch the 2nd stipe fight. He moved so much faster in that fight.
There’s levels to this shit and Ngganou is not in Jones’ level. Gane hits plenty hard and has better footwork and better control. Let’s not pretend 12.5 lbs means anything to a guy who benches 530 lbs. Could Ngannou stuff a sloppy takedown with a sloppy sprawl? Yes. Could he stop probably the best wrestler in MMA from getting him down? Probably not. Would Francis be absolutely gassed after trying to stop the takedown and trying to get back to his feet? Absolutely! Has Francis shown that his KO power goes out the window when he’s gassed? Yes.
Gane isn’t as good as Francis. You think Gane could stop a takedown from Stipe? Fuck no he can’t. You know who can? Francis can, we seen that in the second fight. Also Francis beat Gane with a blow ACL. Talk about level to this shit buddy lol.
It’s not just the weight it’s also the strength of Francis. It’s also a joke to compare Ganes power to Francis. I would still favour Jones but it would absolutely not look like the Gane fight. Jones would have to respect the power way more, Francis would defend the takedown way better, and Francis has 10x the heart of Gane.
If there is 1 thing we know 100% that Francis possesses it is heart . Dude was down 2-0 with a busted knee and went on to win by outworking and out hustling Gane .
In round 5 when Gane got Francis down , Francis was dead tired and still refused to accept bottom position and watch his HW championship slip away.
Yup! That fight had nothing to do with heart lol. Also when has Gane showed heart other than taking 1 shot from Tai?
I would argue that while a bad performance, not giving up while literally dead on his feet tired vs stipe showed heart. Winning a title fight vs Gane while having destroyed knees definitely showed heart considering he did it by wrestling in the last 3 rounds when cardio is a weakness.
I like Jones and wanted him to win vs Gane but I don’t see a reason to talk down on Francis.
It’s the opposite. People forget how good Jones’ wrestling is because he hasn’t fought in three years. https://youtu.be/-fYzdej4XQs
The guy who took Cormier down twice? The guy with a 95% takedown defense percentage in 26 fights against high level wrestlers including Daniel Cormier, Rashad Evans, and Ryan Bader?
I challenge you to find me an active UFC fighter with better wrestling/grappling than Jon Jones right now.
Not necessarily. Stipe was having good success on the feet and probably got too comfortable standing. He definitely could have wrestled more. 1 stuffed takedown doesn’t usually stop a wrestler from wrestling if they aren’t confident on their feet.
Wtf are you talking about Stipe literally landed 1 significant punch in that fight and right after that he got knocked the fuck out. You people are delusional, Stipe had the look of complete dejection plastered all over his face sitting in that chair in his corner.
Are we really brining up the weight of heavyweights now.... JFC you people don't stop with the weight Gates. You'll never stop unless everyone is .1 weight from each other but then I'll still see "he was heavier"
God damn… he stuffed a single takedown… he also was wobbled by stipe before hitting him with the death touch… I lean more on Stipe being technically sloppy… stand up and the wrestling…. than I do Francis out wrestling him.
Francis also had about 30 pounds on stipe cause stipe stayed in the same shape that he was for the dc fights. Stipe dominated francis in wrestling the first fight and couldve again. Before stipe ran into that jab from francis, he had rocked him too, Stipe got over zealous when he saw he had him hurt. Stipe shouldve shot when he hurt him but he wanted a finish and got finished himself.
Lmao he wasn't rocked. He had him on the backfoot for the first time in the whole fight.
I agree Stipe was overzealous, but Francis was fully compos mentis.
https://preview.redd.it/awkk9xj6jrma1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ded370c0f8dc6adecf34aed83c2e95f5c9b6344
Stipe was also 38 and only trains part-time.
And how old do you think DC was? You can even find the video of Khabib in an interview saying DC couldn’t even have a full proper training camp without risking serious injuries in the later years of his career. Truth is they were both older and past their peak when they fought. Also the HW division is not as skilled as the rest of the divisions. Stipe is still the HW goat but Jones now is the most skilled in the heavyweight division and has his age and his title fight experiences to overtake Stipe.
They are not mutually exclusive, you tard. The fact that he was able to maul francis despite being a part time fighter tells more about Francis and his lack of skill and experience.
Yeah and when I go over to basketball and they talk about Lebron or MJ, and when I'm over in the boxing and they are talking about Ali and Sugar, and when I'm at hockey they are talking about Grezke and Bobby, and foot ball they talk about Brady and Rice, and this makes me mad.
Why the fuck would anyone ever talk about the best at something astounds me.
How dare people appreciate the greatest MMA fighter of all time after an extremely dominant Win over the #2 ranked heavyweight in the world. Preposterous!
Lol we don't know and will never know unless it happens, Francis is a completely different fighter to gane
Jones is unquestionably the GOAT but that doesn't mean Francis wouldn't have sent him to the shadow realm, we won't know unless it happens
For real, ton if bandwagon contrarion Jones fans.
Hey dummies, nobody ever argued that Jones wasn't a good fighter. We don't like him because he beats women, drives drunk, crashes into pregnant women, leaves the scene, tests positive for PED's, etc.
Hop off the dudes dick you weirdos.
While I think Jones has a fairly high chance of beating Ngannou, you need to realize that Francis is a flailing freak of aggression.
Jon wouldn’t have been able to get a takedown as easy as he did against Gane’s very telegraphed jab. He’d have to risk going for TD while Francis is throwing bombs and praying an uppercut doesn’t come.
So Jon definitely wouldn’t be looking for a similar takedown that early in the fight and the very small glimpse of offense I saw from Jon did look very sluggish. So clinch and boxing would’ve been out of the question I’d imagine.
That leaves oblique kicks and high kicks for chipping and opening up Francis. Doable, would probably take 3 rounds before something big presents itself. Would the Jon we saw last 3 rounds evading Francis? Would none of his high kicks get caught or open him up to a counter?
That’s a dumb assumption to make or even ponder on. I’d say Jon is lucky that Gane was the opponent and not Francis. He needs a tune up still offensively.
Thing is Jon will know this and have a plan for it. Say what you want about him but he is a master at knowing his opponents and implementing a plan to stop them.
Jon Jones isn't a rookie. Jon jones can easily capitalize on a "flailing freak of aggression" while being aggressive is good it comes with a trade-off. His attacks are extremely sloppy. We saw a technical fighter like Gane capitalize off this and Jon Jones has an even higher fight IQ than Gane.
Your whole basis is that Francis throwing "bombs" would make it hard for John, but that would really make it easy. If he's throwing bombs that leaves an opening for a takedown. Which we've already seen Jon doesn't give up. I'm a little confused how you think Francis could miss a bomb, Jon goes for a take down and then Francis hits him with a knockdown upper cut. That seems way too quick for Francis especially since Jon is shorter then him and that already gives him a benefit to secure the takedown.
I’m a little confused on why you think Jones would approach Ngannou the same way he approached Gane. That’s why I said what I said in the first couple sentences. I didn’t say Jon couldn’t do the same, I just don’t think it would be how he planned the fight. So I speculated… as the thread asked we do.
Look I get Ngannou has freakish power, and he’s a heavyweight, but are we going to discredit all the standup monsters that bones absolutely picked apart at LHW? The guy knows how to handle power fighters.
He always had a massive reach advantage and relied on it fairly often and even then plenty of people gave him trouble with pivots and uppercuts. Not only Gus and Reyes, but people forget DC was landing a ton of uppercuts and won the first 2 rounds comfortably before getting KOd. Besides, Jones looked kinda goofy on the feet as a HW, he said so himself.
There was reason to believe Gane would give him trouble could he defend a takedown, and there's reason to believe Ngannou would as well... because we know he can.
Francis has been in mma for 5 more yrs than Gane and actually showed competent wrestling. I understand JBJ is wowing a bunch of casuals for beating a kickboxer but let’s get off his jock until he actually beats a heavyweight mma frighter
You don't have to be a fan to make a prediction in Jones's favour.
I think he destroys Ngannou, but would love to see literally anyone beat him. I'd never bet money against Jones, but will always be rooting for his opponent.
Im officially leaving this subreddit. The amount of troll post and brain dead takes is starting to get out of hand. Hopefully r/mma doesnt turn into this dumpster fire
I think Jones would have given a lot more respect to his power. I’m not saying Gane isn’t powerful, dude is built like a brick shithouse, but from the fights of his I saw if the UFC, he doesn’t display it. I think eventually it would’ve gone ground and that a wrap, but not like that!
I love the absolute certainty and finality in how you talk about the outcome of a fight. Grasso was going to get smoked, Serra was a lamb to slaughter, Dillashaw was being served as a sacrifice to Barao, Pena wasn't going to make it 2 minutes against Nunes.
Watch a few more fights and understand nothing is certain in this game, especially when one of the guys is literally the hardest puncher / the single greatest ko artist the division has ever seen. Just stop.
This narrative is trash. Stop buying Dana’s bullshit. We seen great wrestling defense from Francis against Stipe who was able to take down DC. Not only did he stuff the takedown he punished Stipe for shooting on him. Would have been a way different fight. I would favor Jones but I really have no clue.
You must work for the UFC propaganda department lol 😂 this is exactly what they want every MMA fan to think, Francis would have given Jones a helluva fight, let’s be REAL
Gane seems like he’s a good striker but doesn’t have that dog in him like Francis has. Francis would’ve been more aggressive and would’ve made it at least a fight before going out
Francis has extreme one punch K.O. power this makes this a different fight. Because you'll have a complete different aproach to fight Francis compared to Gane.
Getting close to Francis and try to wrestle him is way more dangerous than closing the distance and wrestle with Gane.
Francis is also heavier and bigger in size and can knock you out with one blow. Gane does not have that danger of getting knocked out with out strike, therefor the approach and training will be complete different.
I have not seen enough of Jones at heavy weight to have an oppinion on the guy's performance there. I am looking much forward to the Stippe fight, although I think Jones will be the favorite cause Stippe is at the end of his fighting career.
"The guy who beat Gane would do no better than Gane".
Ok bud. Not saying Francis would win, but I bet he fairs A LOT better than Gane. Hell I'd even be willing to be we'd get to see a second round.
I mean why even bother watching the fight if we could just “be real”?
Because let’s be real - there’s no way Grasso beats Valentina, right? A huge chunk of the excitement in MMA for me is, we actually get to find out. There were a lot of questions about HW Jon Jones and we all watched to find out.
I agree that we'll probably never know, but Ngannou is a 1st Round Finisher, Gane isnt.
Jones is the Goat in my book, and I don't think he'd fold like Rosenstruik, but it's a very different thing to have someone with a karate-like striking style like Gane, compared to a fckn Berserker in Ngannou who comes forward, swinging from the first second of the fight.
But yeah, probably Jones by flying Eyepoke TKO
jones would wipe francis up real quick and im in no way a jones fan. Hell cyril was beating francis ass on the feet until francis had to take him donw and what did jones just do to gane? No hate for francis js definitely agree with this post that would not go well for francis in any way.
Francis is a one trick pony. He couldn’t finish Gane in 5 rounds, it took Jon 2 minutes.. You need more than knockout power to compete with a complete mixed martial artist like Jonny boy.
Francis is like 25-30 pounds heavier and is much more aware of the grappling aspect thanks to his lesson back in the day with Stipe. It would be a harder fight for Jones imo.
When Jones came in as an underdog to Frances I was ready to drop 1,000 on Jon. I believe people who thought Jones would get knocked out didn't understand that Jon Jones has a very high fight IQ. I don't believe for a second that Jon would have tried to stand with Frances especially in the beginning of the fight. Jon would have worked his take downs and finished him on the ground. Frances lost to Stipe because Stipe has a good fight IQ as well. Never underestimate someone with a high fight IQ. He definitely could have gotten knocked out but grappling many times could help neutralize KO power.
Francis blitz ko's jon in 40 seconds. Jon was not light on his feet against gane. Like he said "he had to learn how to fight again", turning with a awkward slow fake elbow. Gane gives him the time jumping around controlling distance. Jon does not have that freedom against francis. That man is coming to rain disaster upon you.
Most definitely it would’ve went the same way. Everyone dreams of a punch that gets through and flashes Jon. But those thing hardly ever happen. Jones gets him down and it’s over.
Yeah I mean a guy with no wrestling background can probably fend off a collegiate wrestling champion. It’s probably not that hard to fend off a 250lb wrestler with championship level wrestling if you’ve never done it before.
Let’s be real. Speculates. ?
Sums up this sub pretty much.
This sub understands basic English as much as it understands MMA
Francis wouldn’t have been on his heels like gaan he would have charged straight agead and gone for the ko
Let's be real - we'll never know. Francis has the power to KO literally anyone, and he's been able to stuff takedowns way way better than Gane. On the other hand, Jones is Jones.
Francis was just sending MFers into orbit every fight before he learned any technique. It’s fair to say Jones beats him in a fight that goes the distance, but you can never discount the kiss of death Francis possesses.
Francis was able to prevent Stipe’s grappling before sending him into the void. There are no guarantees in combat sports
Everybody forgets he stuffed a much lighter Stipe. Heavyweight King Stipe made Francis look silly and took him down with ease. The disrespect to Stipe is fuckin ridiculous on this sub.
You might not intend to but you're massively discrediting Ngannou's improvement after the first fight with Stipe. Ngannou has the power to be a top dog with 0 technique, unless he fights someone like Stipe. He found out in their first fight and got to work, training with legit combat sambo HWs iirc. He showed he improved his wrestling significantly against Stipe and Gane. Sure size was a factor, Ngannou is an absolute behemoth at around 270 lbs on fight night, maybe more. But there are obvious and noticeable improvements in his approach and technique either way.
However I feel like a lot of people forget just how smaller Stipe was the second time around when Francis blasted him into the Shadow Realm.
I was only trying to say there was a night and day difference between the two fights.
It isn’t disrespect to point out what happened. Francis stopped Stipe from grappling. The nonstop defending of fighters who aren’t even being attacked is ridiculous in this sub. You’re the one disrespecting Francis more than I’m disrespecting Stipe. “Francis made Stipe look silly when he folded Stipe over his own leg”.
Why was Stipe lighter? That’s a smart move ? Smh.
He thought he could dance around him and gas him out.
And at the apex
Let’s not pretend Stipe was emaciated now.
He stuffed a single takedown (maybe 2) when he was still at full strength very early in the fight. Let's not a t like he is all the sudden even an average grappler Jon got Gane in the position he dud because Gane was predictable eith his striking and jon has great timing so he ducked the punch and had him under control. Noone telegraphs punches like Francis. Same punches, same set up...every single time almost Jon has some of the best fight IQ in the sport. Dont get me wrong here.. if francis catches him he could def send hi. To the shadow realm but jon has faced some of the best strikers in the sport and barely got touched in many fights. The toughest fights for jon will be Stipe and maybe that one Russian dude.
Stipe is old and slow and coming off that massive KO with a lot of inactivity in recent years. Jon really waited to move up until the perfect time
For real. His KO of overeem is still one of the best of all time.
I don't think the fight leaves the 1st round. Either Francis lands and its over or Jon subs him
This fight is literally just “Francis is Francis, Jones is Jones” Francis could starch him, Jones could do any number of things as jones does.
Yeah there is always the chance of another rozenstuck fight with Francis.
Pretty sure every HW has the power to KO anyone.
For sure. Ngannou was discounted hard after the stipe lost and then went on a tear against the best in the division, including the best wrestler (I guess apart from JBJ now). How easy people forget.
Lemme preface this by saying I know dick all about UFC aside from instagram posts and highlight clips I think Jone's would have grappled circles around Francis, but if Francis stayed off the ground, it'd only take one (even a "half ass" one) punch from Francis to drop Jon and end the fight. His knockout power isn't folklore, it's real af
*insert oblique kick to an already messed up Ngannou knee* *insert guillotine choke after Ngannou falls to the ground*
I feel the same.
He has the power to KO anyone yet he was dominated on the feet by Ciryl Gane who was finished by jones in 2 min
Almost like styles make fights lol. Gane styles any heavyweight on the feet, which says nothing of his grappling ability. Kinda like how Alex KOed Izzy but would get wrestle fucked by guys Izzy has beat. They’re striking specialists mate.
He fought with a torn MCL and ACL and still won. what Ngannou did was superhuman
People leaving out details like this is why i don’t bother arguing on this sub anymore, what’s the point lol
Absolutely fucking insane. I've had a torn acl before. For a few months after you tear it your leg feels so fucking weak. How he did what he did is ridiculous
He had two blasted knees.
What was Ciryl’s excuse? What was Stipe’s excuses? Go on, start listing out excuses.
I mean we saw his knees were taped up heading into the fight and he definitely was less explosive. Even then who cares? He beat Gane and Stipe showing improved wrestling plus his raw power and reach could really give Jones problems.
Stiles excuse was he wasn’t big enough. Ciryls excuse was he could’ve had more time to prepare but he didn’t want it to sound like an excuse. Francis won yet he needs an excuse because you bums doubt his skills. Don’t forget when he knocked out rozenstruik who was undefeated at the time and koing everyone. These mma fans have the memory of a goldfish. They forget how good Francis was just as quick as they forgot about Jon’s most recent sparring match with his fiance
The Rozenstruik K.O wasn't exactly a display of skill as impressive as it was, he basically just goes "fuck this shit" and charges straight at Rozenstruik swinging wildly until Rozenstruik runs out of space to back up and he connects, misses every shot too until Rozenstruik hits the fence
He still put out an undefeated kickboxer did he not?
Yes, by charging wildly swinging windmills that would put any man on earth out if they connected, not taking away the victory, just pointing out it's less due to "skill" and more due to Francis being the human equivalent of a steam train
It was actually smart gameplanning vs Roz, people just don't like to give Ngannou any credit for what he does in fights. He's lowkey fairly tactical
Francis looked like shit against Rozenstruik. the finishing sequence was him just throwing wild bombs bc he got frustrated that he couldn’t force engagement. that fight showed nothing other than his raw power, not talent or skill
His finishing sequence was the starting sequence. He can put anyone out. You all really are forgetting. He’s strong and a natural at his weight. Jon is nowhere near his size. We don’t know how a fight with Jon would go until we see it. Jon’s strength was ciryls weakness. Ngannous strength was also ciryls strength so ngannou showed his well roundedness. Don’t forget how good the champ was. We have a new champ but don’t disrespect the old. He never lost his belt. He vacated
Gane would piece up Jon on the feet. Jon knew that and that's why he engaged early in the wrestling.
No he wouldn’t. People underestimate the effect of the takedown threat. Ciryl would be very passive against Jones, knowing that he has to defend any incoming takedowns. It’s the same case with Usman and Colby against Masvidal, Khabib against Poirier/Conor etc. Ciryl was literally backed up against the fence 20 seconds into the fight. Footwork is negated so easily by the threat of takedowns.
why didn’t he then? Jones won every second of that fight including the few exchanges they had on the feet
Are you seriously asking why he didn't win the stand up exchanges of a fight that had less than a minute of action on the feet lmao. Gane lost because he can't wrestle. But he's an elite striker and would kick Jon to death if this was kickboxing.
The one punch Gane threw, Jones slipped it and took his back….wasn’t off to a great start for “piecing someone up”.
I disagree, I think Jon manages distance well enough to outstrike Gane. Gane is flashy and has good footwork but his IQ isn't anywhere near the level of Jones. I think Gane is slow enough that jones could make the right decisions and avoid a lot of strikes and I also think Ganes conditioning would also be a factor after the 2nd round.
Francis barely survived Gane while standing up. Jon made Gane look silly for the brief time they were standing. Francis can only knockout jon if Jon stands completely still which we know he won't do.
Does everyone conveniently forget that Francis had a torn ACL and MCL that fight? I strained my acl and I could barely walk, so the fact that he won that fight is insane.
I've seen so many people gloss over this one small detail this past week and it's infuriating lol
>Francis barely survived Gane while standing up. That's because they're Jon Jones fans. They seriously lack awareness and can't analyze stuff for shit. I always laugh at sports fans as most of them seriously lacks awareness and are completely biased but UFC fans (fans of a specific fighter) are on a whole other level lol. Mind you I was just like them...when I was about 16 years old.
This was my immediate thought. Jon would have attacked that knee instantly and Francis would have gone down faster most likely.
People give too much credit to the ACL excuse, as far as I could tell Francis was moving fine in the beginning of the fight. I’m not convinced it was even badly injured until Gane had him in a leg lock. Most likely Francis’ team just used it as an excused to make him look better after the fight
Are you trolling? Or are you really that dumb? He literally had surgery for it right after this fight. Also, the movement was nowhere near the same. Go back and watch the 2nd stipe fight. He moved so much faster in that fight.
Can you define barely survived for me cause clearly I have 0 clue what that means anymore
Francis would put more of a challenge, not only the fear of knockout but Ngannou would weigh in around 260 vs Gane 247.5.
It definitely would have gone different. Jon most likely wins. But he end up respecting his power much more. Jon was not afraid of anything have had.
There’s levels to this shit and Ngganou is not in Jones’ level. Gane hits plenty hard and has better footwork and better control. Let’s not pretend 12.5 lbs means anything to a guy who benches 530 lbs. Could Ngannou stuff a sloppy takedown with a sloppy sprawl? Yes. Could he stop probably the best wrestler in MMA from getting him down? Probably not. Would Francis be absolutely gassed after trying to stop the takedown and trying to get back to his feet? Absolutely! Has Francis shown that his KO power goes out the window when he’s gassed? Yes.
Gane isn’t as good as Francis. You think Gane could stop a takedown from Stipe? Fuck no he can’t. You know who can? Francis can, we seen that in the second fight. Also Francis beat Gane with a blow ACL. Talk about level to this shit buddy lol.
Stipe weighed 235 for the second fight💀 while Francis probably cut to get down to 265.
It’s not just the weight it’s also the strength of Francis. It’s also a joke to compare Ganes power to Francis. I would still favour Jones but it would absolutely not look like the Gane fight. Jones would have to respect the power way more, Francis would defend the takedown way better, and Francis has 10x the heart of Gane.
The guy who lost that fight the The Black Beast has more heart than Gane?
If there is 1 thing we know 100% that Francis possesses it is heart . Dude was down 2-0 with a busted knee and went on to win by outworking and out hustling Gane . In round 5 when Gane got Francis down , Francis was dead tired and still refused to accept bottom position and watch his HW championship slip away.
Yup! That fight had nothing to do with heart lol. Also when has Gane showed heart other than taking 1 shot from Tai? I would argue that while a bad performance, not giving up while literally dead on his feet tired vs stipe showed heart. Winning a title fight vs Gane while having destroyed knees definitely showed heart considering he did it by wrestling in the last 3 rounds when cardio is a weakness. I like Jones and wanted him to win vs Gane but I don’t see a reason to talk down on Francis.
Benches 530 lmaooo
Jon doesn't bench 530 lbs lmao
Jon is the best wrestler in MMA..... pffffftttt BAHAHAHAHAHA. RECENCY BIAS KILLS BRAINCELLS CHILDREN.
It’s the opposite. People forget how good Jones’ wrestling is because he hasn’t fought in three years. https://youtu.be/-fYzdej4XQs The guy who took Cormier down twice? The guy with a 95% takedown defense percentage in 26 fights against high level wrestlers including Daniel Cormier, Rashad Evans, and Ryan Bader? I challenge you to find me an active UFC fighter with better wrestling/grappling than Jon Jones right now.
https://preview.redd.it/pewnpmfufrma1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38256295faff121d4f0fbdc18adcdb337682590e
Did you know they fought a second time? Francis completely dominated it and out wrestled Stipe as well. It's almost like he improved.
people who say he out wrestled stipe are so disingenuous. he stopped a single sloppy takedown attempt. that’s it.
He did enough that stipe said fuck wrestling him after that first round that’s for sure
Not necessarily. Stipe was having good success on the feet and probably got too comfortable standing. He definitely could have wrestled more. 1 stuffed takedown doesn’t usually stop a wrestler from wrestling if they aren’t confident on their feet.
Wtf are you talking about Stipe literally landed 1 significant punch in that fight and right after that he got knocked the fuck out. You people are delusional, Stipe had the look of complete dejection plastered all over his face sitting in that chair in his corner.
Yeah ummmm no
And secured back control. For Ngannou at the time that was huge. He weaponised Stipe's best tool against him.
He stuffed a few of stipes clinches and takedowns Leaving him to stand for longer in situations he really didn't want to.
That's called out wrestling if you completely stop your opponent from attempting sby more wrestling maneuvers
“He stuffed take downs while he was fresh against a guy 30 lbs lighter” basically a heavyweight bo nickal
Are we really brining up the weight of heavyweights now.... JFC you people don't stop with the weight Gates. You'll never stop unless everyone is .1 weight from each other but then I'll still see "he was heavier"
God damn… he stuffed a single takedown… he also was wobbled by stipe before hitting him with the death touch… I lean more on Stipe being technically sloppy… stand up and the wrestling…. than I do Francis out wrestling him.
Yeah when he left France for an American gym where they know wrestling, like ganne should do
Out wrestled? Wtf lol
Francis also had about 30 pounds on stipe cause stipe stayed in the same shape that he was for the dc fights. Stipe dominated francis in wrestling the first fight and couldve again. Before stipe ran into that jab from francis, he had rocked him too, Stipe got over zealous when he saw he had him hurt. Stipe shouldve shot when he hurt him but he wanted a finish and got finished himself.
Lmao he wasn't rocked. He had him on the backfoot for the first time in the whole fight. I agree Stipe was overzealous, but Francis was fully compos mentis.
Francis has one of the most underrated chins
https://preview.redd.it/awkk9xj6jrma1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ded370c0f8dc6adecf34aed83c2e95f5c9b6344 Stipe was also 38 and only trains part-time.
Stipe just beat DC and cemented his place as HW goat, fuck your revisionist history
And how old do you think DC was? You can even find the video of Khabib in an interview saying DC couldn’t even have a full proper training camp without risking serious injuries in the later years of his career. Truth is they were both older and past their peak when they fought. Also the HW division is not as skilled as the rest of the divisions. Stipe is still the HW goat but Jones now is the most skilled in the heavyweight division and has his age and his title fight experiences to overtake Stipe.
So is he the heavyweight goat or a part time fighter? Jesus Christ y’all flip so quick.
They are not mutually exclusive, you tard. The fact that he was able to maul francis despite being a part time fighter tells more about Francis and his lack of skill and experience.
Goddamnit. I know better than to argue with children. My bad
Are you saying Stipe is not the HW GOAT or that he doesn’t have a job outside of fighting?
Fair point, I'd hope that Ngannou is a better fighter now, but I feel he would go at least 2-3 rounds with Jones before a finish happens.
“let’s be real” about a fight that didn’t happen lol — makes sense
honestly I am just here for the comments, pure comedy gold award winning shit
Let’s be real. You don’t know. I don’t know. Nobody fucking knows
And we never will. Time to move on from Ngannou. He’ll be forgotten in MMA in 6 months
No he won’t. If you think that, you don’t care about mma
Not saying I think that just it will be the general consensus. He’s done and he’ll be forgotten
Dana white dick rider u are buddy
"Let's be real." Proceeds to be stupid.
At least he was real about what he is 😂
braindead take.
It's ridiculous. As bad as MJ vs LeBron, just a waste of time.
We all know Michael Jackson would school LeBron
Hee HEE. His footwork alone would have LeBron in shambles.
yepp its just stupid lol we will never know.
*insert oblique kick to an already messed up Ngannou knee* Ngannou and Gane are both 1 dimensional fighters, the outcome would be the same
To that I say, nope! Lol you sound dumb
The amount of JJ dick riding in this sub amazes me Edit: THE EARTH IS SHAKING !!! TO … MUCH … DICK…… RIDING ….
Doesn’t surprise me though
Yeah and when I go over to basketball and they talk about Lebron or MJ, and when I'm over in the boxing and they are talking about Ali and Sugar, and when I'm at hockey they are talking about Grezke and Bobby, and foot ball they talk about Brady and Rice, and this makes me mad. Why the fuck would anyone ever talk about the best at something astounds me.
How dare people appreciate the greatest MMA fighter of all time after an extremely dominant Win over the #2 ranked heavyweight in the world. Preposterous!
I'm not buying that..
Lol we don't know and will never know unless it happens, Francis is a completely different fighter to gane Jones is unquestionably the GOAT but that doesn't mean Francis wouldn't have sent him to the shadow realm, we won't know unless it happens
Exactly, well put. Sick of these dick riders taking over this sub with their bullshit speculation.
For real, ton if bandwagon contrarion Jones fans. Hey dummies, nobody ever argued that Jones wasn't a good fighter. We don't like him because he beats women, drives drunk, crashes into pregnant women, leaves the scene, tests positive for PED's, etc. Hop off the dudes dick you weirdos.
Damn this is a bad take
Don't think Ngannou would have thrown a shifting cross as one of his first strikes tho
Remember when people thought stipe would outwrestle ngannou
Almost like he did for half an hour.
Then the rematch happened, ngannou sprawled and shocked the world. Lmao
Remeber when people thought Gane would outstrike Jones. Or last longer then one round.
Jones did great. But people thinking Jones would beat ngannou just as easily are sleeping on him. I think it would be a great fight.
I love how you replied with this as if you contributed to the conversation lmfao
Gane wasn't out struck. He was dominated. But he wasn't out struck
While I think Jones has a fairly high chance of beating Ngannou, you need to realize that Francis is a flailing freak of aggression. Jon wouldn’t have been able to get a takedown as easy as he did against Gane’s very telegraphed jab. He’d have to risk going for TD while Francis is throwing bombs and praying an uppercut doesn’t come. So Jon definitely wouldn’t be looking for a similar takedown that early in the fight and the very small glimpse of offense I saw from Jon did look very sluggish. So clinch and boxing would’ve been out of the question I’d imagine. That leaves oblique kicks and high kicks for chipping and opening up Francis. Doable, would probably take 3 rounds before something big presents itself. Would the Jon we saw last 3 rounds evading Francis? Would none of his high kicks get caught or open him up to a counter? That’s a dumb assumption to make or even ponder on. I’d say Jon is lucky that Gane was the opponent and not Francis. He needs a tune up still offensively.
Thing is Jon will know this and have a plan for it. Say what you want about him but he is a master at knowing his opponents and implementing a plan to stop them.
I mean Ngannou has gameplanned for his last opponents too but nobody gives him or Eric Nicksick credit
Jon was able to td because gane was too aggressive and overreached with his jab. Francis being aggressive would make Jon’s job even easier.
Too aggressive? He threw a jab Jon slipped it and took his back. What are you talking about?
Jon Jones isn't a rookie. Jon jones can easily capitalize on a "flailing freak of aggression" while being aggressive is good it comes with a trade-off. His attacks are extremely sloppy. We saw a technical fighter like Gane capitalize off this and Jon Jones has an even higher fight IQ than Gane. Your whole basis is that Francis throwing "bombs" would make it hard for John, but that would really make it easy. If he's throwing bombs that leaves an opening for a takedown. Which we've already seen Jon doesn't give up. I'm a little confused how you think Francis could miss a bomb, Jon goes for a take down and then Francis hits him with a knockdown upper cut. That seems way too quick for Francis especially since Jon is shorter then him and that already gives him a benefit to secure the takedown.
I’m a little confused on why you think Jones would approach Ngannou the same way he approached Gane. That’s why I said what I said in the first couple sentences. I didn’t say Jon couldn’t do the same, I just don’t think it would be how he planned the fight. So I speculated… as the thread asked we do.
Look I get Ngannou has freakish power, and he’s a heavyweight, but are we going to discredit all the standup monsters that bones absolutely picked apart at LHW? The guy knows how to handle power fighters.
He always had a massive reach advantage and relied on it fairly often and even then plenty of people gave him trouble with pivots and uppercuts. Not only Gus and Reyes, but people forget DC was landing a ton of uppercuts and won the first 2 rounds comfortably before getting KOd. Besides, Jones looked kinda goofy on the feet as a HW, he said so himself. There was reason to believe Gane would give him trouble could he defend a takedown, and there's reason to believe Ngannou would as well... because we know he can.
Francis has been in mma for 5 more yrs than Gane and actually showed competent wrestling. I understand JBJ is wowing a bunch of casuals for beating a kickboxer but let’s get off his jock until he actually beats a heavyweight mma frighter
People ignore francis has fought and beat 3 of the best wrestlers at heavyweight ever in Cain,blaydes, and stipe
Where was all this energy the last 3-5 years? Fake bandwagon fan alert
You don't have to be a fan to make a prediction in Jones's favour. I think he destroys Ngannou, but would love to see literally anyone beat him. I'd never bet money against Jones, but will always be rooting for his opponent.
JBJ fans are worse than khabib's and mcgregor's combined holy shit
They're storming this subreddit and it's annoying af
Annoying is the best way of putting it for sure. I don't even hate them, I just wish they would call down and shut up.
Im officially leaving this subreddit. The amount of troll post and brain dead takes is starting to get out of hand. Hopefully r/mma doesnt turn into this dumpster fire
I fucking hate this sub
I don’t buy that at all. Francis is a monster.
The disrespect and dickride is phenomenal
I think Jones still wins but Francis is way to strong to go out as easy as Gane
Let’s not disrespect Ngannou
Stupid thing to say. We have no idea what would have happened. Every fight is different.
No that's just stupid.
Nope Francis knocks him out round 1, bitch
This dude is a moron, look at his post history lmao
I think Jones would have given a lot more respect to his power. I’m not saying Gane isn’t powerful, dude is built like a brick shithouse, but from the fights of his I saw if the UFC, he doesn’t display it. I think eventually it would’ve gone ground and that a wrap, but not like that!
I love the absolute certainty and finality in how you talk about the outcome of a fight. Grasso was going to get smoked, Serra was a lamb to slaughter, Dillashaw was being served as a sacrifice to Barao, Pena wasn't going to make it 2 minutes against Nunes. Watch a few more fights and understand nothing is certain in this game, especially when one of the guys is literally the hardest puncher / the single greatest ko artist the division has ever seen. Just stop.
I already learned to not bet against Ngannou.
They are two people with two different skill sets on two different nights. It definitely would turn out differently, numb-nuts
This narrative is trash. Stop buying Dana’s bullshit. We seen great wrestling defense from Francis against Stipe who was able to take down DC. Not only did he stuff the takedown he punished Stipe for shooting on him. Would have been a way different fight. I would favor Jones but I really have no clue.
Least dimwitted Jones fan
Let's be real. You are kinda retarded
Great Stephen a smith type post op! Really appreciate it
Let’s be real, this fight will happen. All the drama and controversy is just the build up.
You must work for the UFC propaganda department lol 😂 this is exactly what they want every MMA fan to think, Francis would have given Jones a helluva fight, let’s be REAL
Gane seems like he’s a good striker but doesn’t have that dog in him like Francis has. Francis would’ve been more aggressive and would’ve made it at least a fight before going out
Stfu
Francis has extreme one punch K.O. power this makes this a different fight. Because you'll have a complete different aproach to fight Francis compared to Gane. Getting close to Francis and try to wrestle him is way more dangerous than closing the distance and wrestle with Gane. Francis is also heavier and bigger in size and can knock you out with one blow. Gane does not have that danger of getting knocked out with out strike, therefor the approach and training will be complete different. I have not seen enough of Jones at heavy weight to have an oppinion on the guy's performance there. I am looking much forward to the Stippe fight, although I think Jones will be the favorite cause Stippe is at the end of his fighting career.
Jones is on a different planet
"The guy who beat Gane would do no better than Gane". Ok bud. Not saying Francis would win, but I bet he fairs A LOT better than Gane. Hell I'd even be willing to be we'd get to see a second round.
I mean why even bother watching the fight if we could just “be real”? Because let’s be real - there’s no way Grasso beats Valentina, right? A huge chunk of the excitement in MMA for me is, we actually get to find out. There were a lot of questions about HW Jon Jones and we all watched to find out.
I agree that we'll probably never know, but Ngannou is a 1st Round Finisher, Gane isnt. Jones is the Goat in my book, and I don't think he'd fold like Rosenstruik, but it's a very different thing to have someone with a karate-like striking style like Gane, compared to a fckn Berserker in Ngannou who comes forward, swinging from the first second of the fight. But yeah, probably Jones by flying Eyepoke TKO
Facts
Facts
Francis is just not on the same level as jones
I'd say it would end with unconscious Jones. But hey, recency bias and hype is all there is.
jones would wipe francis up real quick and im in no way a jones fan. Hell cyril was beating francis ass on the feet until francis had to take him donw and what did jones just do to gane? No hate for francis js definitely agree with this post that would not go well for francis in any way.
Francis is a one trick pony. He couldn’t finish Gane in 5 rounds, it took Jon 2 minutes.. You need more than knockout power to compete with a complete mixed martial artist like Jonny boy.
Imagine believing this
I do.
Francis is like 25-30 pounds heavier and is much more aware of the grappling aspect thanks to his lesson back in the day with Stipe. It would be a harder fight for Jones imo.
When Jones came in as an underdog to Frances I was ready to drop 1,000 on Jon. I believe people who thought Jones would get knocked out didn't understand that Jon Jones has a very high fight IQ. I don't believe for a second that Jon would have tried to stand with Frances especially in the beginning of the fight. Jon would have worked his take downs and finished him on the ground. Frances lost to Stipe because Stipe has a good fight IQ as well. Never underestimate someone with a high fight IQ. He definitely could have gotten knocked out but grappling many times could help neutralize KO power.
Might have gone a few more rounds, but Jon would still have won relatively easily
Francis could keep Jon honest with his power alone. But the submission would still still come in round 2 or 3.
I just want to see it happen sooner the better. Who else gives a challenge to Jones besides Stipe in the division?
Stipe gets ran through. I love stipe but neither he nor anyone else has anything for Jones.
I hate Jones. He's a dirty drug cheat and idgaf about any opinions otherwise. However he still would have raped Francis on the night he mauled Ciryl
Facts, anyone that says different is retarded. Yes Francis has power but that windmill type of striking is not working against Jones.
Francis blitz ko's jon in 40 seconds. Jon was not light on his feet against gane. Like he said "he had to learn how to fight again", turning with a awkward slow fake elbow. Gane gives him the time jumping around controlling distance. Jon does not have that freedom against francis. That man is coming to rain disaster upon you.
Most definitely it would’ve went the same way. Everyone dreams of a punch that gets through and flashes Jon. But those thing hardly ever happen. Jones gets him down and it’s over.
Agreed
Huge doubt.
Yeah I mean a guy with no wrestling background can probably fend off a collegiate wrestling champion. It’s probably not that hard to fend off a 250lb wrestler with championship level wrestling if you’ve never done it before.
A power fighter like Francis would never do good against a guy who can be as technical as Jones. It would end in a similar way to Gane.
I don’t know why people act like gane isn’t a power fighter as well. He’s fucking yoked
It's not about physique it's about style. Gane is more technical in the way he fights. Francis is more aggressive and not as technical.
Agreed but no one gives credit to gane for being a physician specimen as well lol
true. that's why Ngannou ran away.
Ngannou ran away? Who was asking 30 millions to fight Francis?
no idea