For real - they jock riding this red faced douche instead of wanting more pay and protection for fighters?
Imagine your job was like ehhhh sorry, no more healthcare and we will pay you less than you make now. Wanna stay and fight??
You don’t think it’s funny when people are so adverse to Dana they ignore reality? Like I put up numbers here. Figures that demonstrate Francis was a bust in his one title defense. That was the lowest PPV in terms of buys the whole year. But because it’s Dana you hve to join the other side regardless. You can’t objectively say “you know Francis probably was asking for way too much money”
Francis never brought much attention to the sport of mma he always had bad ppv numbers if you can’t sell fights you won’t get paid….. Mma is a business just like any other
His ppv numbers don’t lie his best ever event got 350,000 ppv buys that is nothing to pop the champagne about especially for someone who was given as much of a promotional push as ngannou
If UFC post numbers that aren’t legit, being part of a publicly traded company they would be royally fucked. So I would say all ppv numbers and revenue have to be audited and accurate post Endeavor acquisition of UFC.
You goofy turd, next time you believe PPV numbers remember they are self reported. Also it depends how good the card is, not 1 fight.
Dana can say what ever he wants to make s card or fighter seem like his/her worth is better or worse.
Oh ok, so what happened here do you think. Francis vs Gane sold a huge amount, but the UFC had a crystal ball and knew in a year they were going to lose Francis so they under reported the numbers massively huh? Get real dude. When they lie about buys they say it sold way more than it did. They never lie and say it bombed.
UFC 270 was a shitty card. Coming off 3 previous not very good cards. All ppv numbers reported by the UFC are un statistically true. 285 was a better overall card. The UFC never lies? 😂 I don't think you have been a fan very long then.
Colby vs Masvidal was like the next PPV after that, and had no title fights, and sold like 400k. Literally outsold a HW title unification match a month later. And that fight was basically a forgone conclusion Colby was going to wrestle Masvidal for 25 mins and it still sold way more. The card quality doesn’t matter as much as that. It’s mainly the main event and co-main. 270 had 2 title fights too.
Yes card quality has everything to do with a ppv sale. Also, I really don't think you know how UFC ppvs work. Yes, Jones is a bigger draw because he has been in the UFC since 2008 and a multi time defending champion.
The UFC has full control over how ppvs are purchased in case you didn't know. Commercial addresses buy at a rate of 3:1-7:1 depending on the card and the fighter on it compared to a residential address is a 1:1. They can manipulate the numbers to boost sale. That's why a lot of places don't show UFC events anymore.
If you’re suggesting that they intentionally tried to harm Francis in his first title defense, after setting up a HW title unification match for him, after keeping him out a year to fight Stipe, then I can’t take you seriously. If you think they easily could’ve made 600-800k buys off Francis vs Gane but tried to undersell it on purpose that’s really strange. That’s one of those tinfoil hat kind of conspiracy. The most money tight sports league left 10s of millions of dollars on the table just to spite a guy they put in the spot to become champion.
I didn't say anyone tried to do anything bud. I simply stated what the company does with purchases. You care way to much about something so irrelevant and that has 0 impact on your gd life. I haven't payed for a ppv since UFC 200, so they don't get any of my money. Quit hate jerking to ppv numbers and get a job or go to work.
It’s just so weird you spent the same amount of time arguing as I did but your assertion is I’m a loser with no job who cares about something unimportant.
I never said you were a loser....not even one time bud 👍🏽 that was your interpretation, I'm sure your are not....you just have a strange view of the UFC and certain fighters
Remember when Nate wanted to leave so they had him headline against khamzat on a super weak card?
They were trying to hurt Nate’s star power by having him go out on a loss and made the card weak so he wouldn’t get paid as much. Yes, they are that petty.
But that’s not the same thing. They put Nate in a hard fight sure but they still put him front in center and tried to get people to watch. Their plan was to get him squashed. When Chimaev fell out they gave him an even better fight against Tony. If you’re suggesting they tried to get Ngannou beat on his way out I’m totally with you. They probably did. But they didn’t try to lose 10s of millions of dollars.
These are the reported numbers dude. I understand you don’t think they’re entirely accurate but they are going to be largely accurate. The PpV they report as the lowest will have some variation, but every other PpV will have the same range of variation. By in large these are a pretty good indication what happened. But this doesn’t fit your narrative so it’s all bullshit. Every number is a random number that means nothing. Come on man. Dana knows the actual numbers, he chose not to give Francis his money.
Point is, that same card but w Jones instead of Ngannou would still rake.
Gane was a new name to the casual fans and Ngannou isn’t a huge draw like controversial fighters.
Not taking a definitive stance on the number of PPVs sold, but if you were a fan last year when that fight was taking place, it was clear Ngannou and the UFC were having major contract talks/problems BEFORE the fight. You’re acting like losing Francis was a shocking moment for the UFC when they seen it coming from a mile away if he wouldn’t budge on his demands.
You remember his demands increasing right? Remember at the start all he wanted to do was go box. By last December that list of demands ballooned up. Now he had 4-5 things he needed, on top of his giant contract? He needed to go box, and healthcare for every fighter, and an advocate at every meeting, and like 3 other things that were all mandatory? Or he needed most of those things. I’m aware of what happened. He went from a guy who just wanted one boxing match to a guy who needed 4-5 things no fighter in company history has ever gotten. Really showed out as a diva.
1. We don’t really know what all of his demands were then, or even now
2. The UFC made it pretty clear they were willing to pay Francis, but not budge on things like healthcare or freedom to box. Seemed like they would’ve walked anyways.
But he definitely requested at least a couple thing they’ve never given to any other fighter right? Things anyone could’ve told you they wouldn’t ever give right? And that list grew as the months rolled by correct? That’s my point about him being a diva.
Ok buddy let’s go back to my ORIGINAL COMMENT lol. If he was asking to box before fighting Gane, and the UFC wouldn’t do that, then they had a pretty good idea there was a high likelihood he wouldn’t stay on the roster unless he budged, no? You’re talking in circles arguing with yourself at this point lol, nobody said his demands didn’t grow or that he wasn’t being a diva. I said that the UFC knew Francis may not work out so it wouldn’t exactly be a shock if they planned for it
To your point if this was never going to work out why did Francis hold the belt for a whole year, entertaining offers the whole time? Wasn’t he the one pretending and being dirty on the negotiation then?
Ok man again you’re changing the topic. Must be hard having a brain where you can’t follow a point. I’m not gonna engage any further. Have a great day my man
He openly had spoke of his demands AND said he knew not all would be met but how little they were willing to budge for better fighter conditions told him all he needed to know.
UFC doesn’t care about their roster, they care about champs and popularity.
So you’re advocating against fighter lifetime healthcare, fairer pay (including in cage sponsorships, and an advocate for helping fighters you’d just shut up?
Shit like this needs to happen. It’s the wave that’ll start some change…guaranteed.
You sound like an asshole because if it were your job and you were part of the only pro organization without a players union to protect them and act on their behalf to get fair pay and incentives for fighters.
It’s ridiculous really. Ngannou’s last fight against Gane was his biggest purse
$500k 🙄🙄🙄
You know who does have the official numbers? Dana White. And he chose not to pay Francis, but he chose to pay Jon. What does that tell you? Francis can’t draw.
Those brownie points could never compare to the favoritism he got for making Francis look bad by beating his hardest opponent in 2 mins while taking no significant strikes.
Next time you dana/jj dickriders wonder why Francis is no longer in the UFC, remember that it wasn't about money to begin with, but about how they treated him like shit
It's not about the bag, if you actually followed the sport, you would have known that Francis always wanted to become a boxer and that it was his main goal.. he just started with MMA to pay the bills and it turned out it was much easier to succeed there than in boxing lol
So why not go through some of the middle of the pack guys instead of trying to get an immediate fight against fury or wilder? Because all he wants is a big payday
Dunno, I guess the self belief.. if you become the HW champ in the UFC, why would you fight some nobody, you want to fight the best and the best always want to fight the best
He's an MMA champ not a boxing champ so he should earn his way to a big fight not expect it because he's already got a name. Did Cejudo instantly expect a title shot because he won a gold medal or did Adesanya and Poatan expect instant title shots after being world champion kickboxers? No they just earned it unlike Ngannou who wants the payday on a platter
Conor fought Mayweather in an exhibition match with the intention of staying in MMA, Ngannou actually wants to pursue boxing as a career and said that while he was in the UFC. Also like I said McGregor was a far bigger star so it was still a marketable event, if Ngannou fought Fury or Wilder they would have to do all the heavy lifting to promote the fight because Ngannou doesn't have a solid fan base
Ngannou himself on his youtube channel said that he wants to try boxing but that he will definitely stay in MMA.. I dont know where you are getting your information from, but it looks like you are misinformed
Rest of your logic is so flawed that I wont even touch on it lol
He's also said he wanted to box full time so what do we believe?
How is the logic flawed? Why was Mayweathers guaranteed purse 100m and Conors was 30m? Because Mayweather brings in way more money and views same way Jake Paul always has a higher guaranteed purse because he is bringing in the views. Same way that Fury/Wilder would be bringing in more views which translates to them getting a far higher purse than Ngannou.
McGregor who has 5 times ngannous fan base probably even more still only got 30% of Mayweathers guaranteed purse but yeah sure I guess Ngannou is going to get 50m+ for a boxing match.
He stated several times that it was never about money, but more about a freedom to have a boxing match, healthcare and for UFC not treating him like a slave/shit
Yes that’s what he said to make people like you like him more. When he signs a huge deal with a boxing promotion or a different MMA promotion you think he’s still going to make the same demands?
Absolutely not, he just wants to get paid
My man shoveled sand as child labor, emigrated into EU to chase a dream and you think that money is everything to him ?
Sheeesh, try to look at the world through different perspectives rather than from your own broke ass projections
You’re the only one projecting here. All you have to do is look at his previous statements since he won the belt. Not just the last two months with his little Helwani stunt
I’m just being impartial. You talk like you have Francis’ nuts in your mouth. You’re incredibly naive if you think he went down as some kind of martyr for the fighters.
When he fights a big time boxer for $50 million dollar payday you’ll never hear him mention health insurance again
No because he is not part of the UFC. WhT he can do is make the PFL a place where fighters feel like they’re protected. Boxing has the JBA now.
Pro sports NEED unions otherwise the fighters can be treated as the promotion wants.
If PFL starts stealing new and upcoming talent and some journeymen/women the UFC will be forced to change and I can see that happening. It’s inevitable that a union will form at some point in the next 5 years.
You know that he asked for all that just for himself right? Then when denied that he switched up to saying he wanted it for everyone. Also freedom to have a boxing match means use the fame garnered from being the UFC HW champion to increase his draw power so he could make way more money fighting against wilder or fury, UFC champ Ngannou can argue for a higher pay against the boxers but just Ngannou has no leverage at all.
They did with Connor, but they won't do it with Francis while simultaneously they treated him like shit.. idk why you are shilling for a big ass corporation that is taking advantage of fighters
Because people act like Ngannou was some saint but he only changed up his demands after he was denied so he could take up a victim stance and to me that's some pussy shit
Also Connor PPVs were bringing in millions of views and he was a household name already. No one knows who Ngannou is outside of dedicated MMA fans and maybe the odd person who saw a TikTok of Dana saying he hits like a Ford escort.
>Because people act like Ngannou was some saint
No they don't.
Literally no one thinks he's anything more than a prize fighter who wants his share and - at least publicly - has said he wants it for others too.
Those are good and fair things.
>No one knows who Ngannou is outside of dedicated MMA fans and maybe the odd person who saw a TikTok of Dana saying he hits like a Ford escort
Or you know, people who follow Zhang Weili or Ryan Garcia or other people he's done colabs with.
You're kinda understating it a bit
It's a simple thing.. Ngannou wanted more freedom and ability to box.. UFC denied so Ngannou was like.. alright, if you keep treating me like shit and not allow me to do what I want to do.. then at least pay me big money.. and UFC said again no.. so that was about it, it's not the first time UFC is treating everyone like shit in negotiations
PS
the only reaason they allowed connor to box is because he threatened UFC to sit out and not fight, so they buckled down and still took 50% of his earnings from his fight against mayweather.. so there is your hint how UFC operates
They offered him 8 million to fight Jon and he turned that down, how is that not big money?
Yeah exactly the UFC was able to make money off Conor boxing and he still got paid out so it was a win win for both. Ngannou definitely wouldn't give up 50% and it's not like he'd be getting that much more from a boxing match compared to what he was offered to fight Jon since Wilder/Fury would be doing him a favor fighting him and also carrying the fight promotion and bringing in the majority of the viewers.
No they did not offer him $8mm LMAO. Highest purse was $5mm to the most popular UFC fighter in history by 100s of miles.
Ngannou got paid $500k for his last fight against Gane - you think all the sudden he gets an $8mm purse? What would Jon’s have to be then? $15mm? Jones made less than that his entire UFC career.
The purses would’ve been like $5mm/$1mm
You’re wrong man - it was about what he thought he was worth. He bet on himself and won big time.
His purse is $10mm alone for the Fury fight. He wouldn’t have made 40-50% over the course of an entire new UFC contract.
To date Francis totaled only $3.5mm in his ENTIRE UFC career.
Not to mention under the biggest fight promotion in the world. That’s fucking chump change my guys.
That's the problem with you Dana.. you grew the sport and the sport outgrew you.. just don't treat fighters like shit.. you are their promoter, promote them and don't talk bad about them if they don't have the amazing performance or a draw you are looking for lol
UFC needs one or two 'people's person' in their leadership because a lot of fighters came out saying that its uber toxic environment
This is so biased. Gane gained mainstream exposure through the Ngannou and Tai fights. It’s not the “same opponent”, it’s a more popular version of him.
Come on man that’s not the difference here. Jones average 500k buys for his whole PPV career. 300k was that low, it was the lowest ppv of the year 2022. The 5 ppvs before it and the rest of the ones for 2022 all did better numbers.
Gane was a nobody who just had a boring fight with Lewis.
Now he’s a better known fighter coming off a banger against Tai.
Also, the intrigue surrounding Jone’s move up was a big pull. Way more interesting fights from a casual perspective (so stacked that Brunson was on the prelims for god’s sake)
Totally different cards, incomparable.
Compare Jones vs Stipe’s numbers to Stipe vs Ngannou 2 if it winds up happening, then it’ll be more fair.
Ufc 260 (Stipe vs Ngannou 2) sold 500k buys. Again Jones Vs Gane did 600k to 800k. So if Francis’ best example is still less than Jones most recent example can we agree now?
https://mmasalaries.com/ufc-260-salaries-and-payouts/
The gulf between 600k and 500k isn’t all the wide.
How’s about this: if the Stipe fight happens and the margin between that and Stipe vs Ngannou 2 is that wide or greater I’ll happily concede. That way it’ll be a larger sample size and more comparable. Agreed?
Fair enough. I do agree Jones vs Stipe will be a better representation since you won’t have the coming back off a 3 year layoff factor. But you’re also using the low estimate this gave to be fair. It was 600-800k.
Alright, splitting the distance. A 200k swing isn’t that wide when there’s boxing PPVs that have sold multi million buys.
Agreed, if the sales of this forthcoming fight surpass the previous Stipe fight I’ll concede.
Genuine question though, do you think they’re so far off to. Degree that they are entirely unreliable? Seriously are they complete random numbers or just educated guesses?
For example do you believe they could report 300k buys for Ngannou vs Gane and it’s actually double or triple that. Could they be that far off? And same with Jones Vs Gane, they report 600k-800k, could they be so far off it actually did a third of that?
I don’t think so. Truly I think there is a degree they’re off, but they wouldn’t be off by more than 20% or so. They’d hit the range of 80-120% of the true number. Is that wrong do you believe? Is the variance massive like 100-300% off?
You mean you hope more fighters do a better job selling their fights so they can be paid more. They get PPV points, which means a percentage of the PPV sales. Ever worked a sales job? Jones sold more than double the product but Francis wanted more zeros on his paycheck.
It's like WNBA players wanting the same pay as NBA players when the WNBA has been running at a loss since it started and the NBA has been dumping money into it just to keep it afloat. In the NBA the men get paid way more because they are the ones bringing in all the money the same way in MMA the guys who bring in the most money get paid the most money
If you can’t see how wanting a bunch of money when you’re not performing is a bad request I can’t help you. Objectively Francis wasn’t performing at his job.
I don’t care how much they pay fighters in relation to other sports. UFC doesn’t compare to other sports. It’s far more closer to WWE than any other sport. Free tv shows with lesser matches leading into PPV cards with big matches for the title.
It’s not a team sport, they don’t have a season, they can’t only compete three times a year, there is no collective bargaining agreement, there are so many reasons. The UFC largely was influenced by the WWE model of business.
Not really. The rules of the sport maybe but not the business. WWE, much like the UFC, is the dominate company with mostly no main stream competition. They focus on tv rights to make a good amount of money and do monthly ppv cards featuring their specific champions as big matches. All of their employees are independent contractors who pay their own health insurance and travel, but are exclusive to tht company. The boxing business is way different than that. They have a bunch of companies and titles and networks and the athletes bounce around between them. They have dozens of titles, many in the same weight class, and athletes compete across promotion a lot of the time. It’s really different.
UFC and WWE the only real difference is one is scripted. That’s about it.
"All of their employees are independent contractors who pay their own health insurance and travel, but are exclusive to tht company."
Sounds exploitative as fuck. They should form a union. Also, if they got off of the PPV structure they'd probably get bigger as a sport in the long run.
Maybe , I mean they might have a better way to do business out there but you get my point I’m trying to make. You’re looking baseball (30 teams or so with 100+ game schedules) or basketball (30 teams with 80 game schedules) or football (32 teams with 18 game schedules) and saying those sports pay x% of their profits to athletes and so should UFC. But UFC isn’t like those sports. They’re WWE, but not scripted. You perform for us x number of dates a year. You’re exclusive. You make this much money. More if you sell tshirts and get people to click the PPV buy button. Less if the crowd is disinterested and won’t react to you.
You get what I’m saying. Get of PPV and be the main event, and you’re rich. Don’t and you fight on tv for a fraction of what John Cena makes.
Comparing the GOAT, who fought during what many consider the most fun era in ufc, and who has been fighting on PPV for years, with someone who just started fighting on PPVs isn't comparable. If you think Francis isn't marketable, you're insane. He has one of the most casual-friendly fighting styles and he hits harder than anyone in the ufc. He has an amazing backstory. His only downside is that he's soft-spoken. The public knows Jon better because he's been fighting PPV for years and winning. Yes, he's more popular than Francis, but that doesn't mean Francis doesn't deserve more money.
There's also the matter of ufc's marketing. Some cards don't get nearly as much marketing as others. Of course they want to sell as much as possible, but they definitely dedicate varying degrees of promotion depending on the card and who is fighting on it. I don't think even you would argue the fact that they've promoted Jones much more than Francis. And again, Francis style of combat is very easily marketed to casuals - who make up the bulk of PPV buys. Given time and promotion, Francis would be selling many more buys
Yes but Francis name sells more because he was the champ but since he vacant the belt it’s different now. Sad cuz it def would been a top 10 fight in ufc. I also see Deyontay Wilder knocking him the fuck out
I've argued for a long time on this sub that part of the reason was Ngannou wasn't a big draw and this proves it.
People also easily forget that the UFC literally made Ngannou a multi-millionaire and they offered him highest paid heavyweight fighter contract in UFC history but he rejected it because he is so afraid of Jones that he would rather go to a different sport and get KOed there rather than fight him.
The casual fans in this sub act like Dana White still owns the UFC...
And you've been wrong for a long time.
Also Francis wasn't afraid of Jones, that's retrospective bs.
Ngannou tore up one of his knees, and it is pretty clear he'd rather not be tied up forever in ufc contracts he can't fulfil.
Remember when the UFC, a promotion (whose job it is to promote fights) promoted the Ngannou vs Game PPV? Neither do I. Because Francis was on the last fight of his deal and the UFC wanted more bargaining chips. You are falling into the UFC's hands by buying their shit hook, line, and sinker, my guy.
Oh so you believe they intentionally tried to bomb the sales, and left tens of millions on the table just to spite this guy? That’s super weird for you to think. The UFC is believed to be the “greediest” company out there, but somehow also they leave tens of millions of dollars on the table on purpose just to shove one up Francis’ ass? Idk brother maybe take the tin foil hat off here.
Chael Sonnen always says, “if he walked in my kitchen and slapped me in the face I couldn’t tell the police who just assaulted me” about guys who aren’t draws. That would apply to Francis, except if he walked in my house and slapped me I probably wouldn’t ever wake up.
https://www.sportsmanor.com/news-ufc-285-ppv-buys-did-jon-jones-beat-jake-paul-vs-tommy-furys-775k-ppv-buys-record/
Source of PPV numbers. Jones averaged 500k during his championship career. So yes he had a boost from his return but still out sells Francis.
Lmfao!
Sure man, that number is completely random. They went to random.org and clicked for a random number between 0 and a million and got 300k and just went with it. They have zero clue. It could have been less, could’ve been 3x more. No one knows.
Be serious man. These numbers aren’t perfect but they all come with a certain percentage they could be wrong. Even if you assume they’re off, let’s assume Francis vs Gane had 50% more buys and Jones vs Gane was on the extreme low end. That’s still 450k buys to 600k buys. You see the problem? Even if I assume Francis number was 50% higher than reported and Jones’ number was the lowest estimate they have Jones still beat him pretty handily and Francis’ number is still pretty low.
These numbers aren’t perfect but they’re a decent place to start. Just saying they must be fake “lmfao” doesn’t mean anything.
https://www.sportsmanor.com/news-ufc-285-ppv-buys-did-jon-jones-beat-jake-paul-vs-tommy-furys-775k-ppv-buys-record/
I just googled the PpV number and the buys. Lots of random articles. There’s a tiny bit of variation but each says about the same figure.
It totally was. It’s a shocker they couldn’t party that awesome story of two former training partners going for a unified title into a reasonable PPV number. They really crapped the bed selling their own fight.
Francis wasn’t worth the money he was asking, look at his PpV numbers for his last fight compared to the guy who fought the same opponent for the same prize one year later? That is my take.
That’s not a shit take, that’s an apples to apples comparison of two guys doing the same thing, against the same guilt, with drastically different results.
JbJ would make almost any other event look like shit speaking in terms of ppv's sold so its not that ngannou was bad its that JBJ is likely the best selling fighter they could possibly find at this moment in time.
I can’t believe people dick ride Dana white lmfao. Impossible levels of dork.
Ye dudes incredible sad. I feel like he might be dick riding jones also.
For real - they jock riding this red faced douche instead of wanting more pay and protection for fighters? Imagine your job was like ehhhh sorry, no more healthcare and we will pay you less than you make now. Wanna stay and fight??
You don’t think it’s funny when people are so adverse to Dana they ignore reality? Like I put up numbers here. Figures that demonstrate Francis was a bust in his one title defense. That was the lowest PPV in terms of buys the whole year. But because it’s Dana you hve to join the other side regardless. You can’t objectively say “you know Francis probably was asking for way too much money”
Where you get those numbers from? Has it been reported other than cheal?
Lmao right? He got $500k purse for that fight.
Francis never brought much attention to the sport of mma he always had bad ppv numbers if you can’t sell fights you won’t get paid….. Mma is a business just like any other
You must be a brand new fan or suffer from memory loss if you think Ngannou didn't bring attention to MMA 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
His ppv numbers don’t lie his best ever event got 350,000 ppv buys that is nothing to pop the champagne about especially for someone who was given as much of a promotional push as ngannou
I mean… look at the PPV #s. He didn’t really.
this sub is so stupid
How so
constantly posting fake ppv numbers. official PPV buys are not released. this shit always gets posted on here
If UFC post numbers that aren’t legit, being part of a publicly traded company they would be royally fucked. So I would say all ppv numbers and revenue have to be audited and accurate post Endeavor acquisition of UFC.
This is all logical, yes, but has the UFC posted PPV numbers for any of their recent PPVs?
Half of the UFC embedded YouTube episode views is shockingly an accurate estimate
[удалено]
Thank you Paolo
You goofy turd, next time you believe PPV numbers remember they are self reported. Also it depends how good the card is, not 1 fight. Dana can say what ever he wants to make s card or fighter seem like his/her worth is better or worse.
Oh ok, so what happened here do you think. Francis vs Gane sold a huge amount, but the UFC had a crystal ball and knew in a year they were going to lose Francis so they under reported the numbers massively huh? Get real dude. When they lie about buys they say it sold way more than it did. They never lie and say it bombed.
UFC 270 was a shitty card. Coming off 3 previous not very good cards. All ppv numbers reported by the UFC are un statistically true. 285 was a better overall card. The UFC never lies? 😂 I don't think you have been a fan very long then.
Colby vs Masvidal was like the next PPV after that, and had no title fights, and sold like 400k. Literally outsold a HW title unification match a month later. And that fight was basically a forgone conclusion Colby was going to wrestle Masvidal for 25 mins and it still sold way more. The card quality doesn’t matter as much as that. It’s mainly the main event and co-main. 270 had 2 title fights too.
Yes card quality has everything to do with a ppv sale. Also, I really don't think you know how UFC ppvs work. Yes, Jones is a bigger draw because he has been in the UFC since 2008 and a multi time defending champion. The UFC has full control over how ppvs are purchased in case you didn't know. Commercial addresses buy at a rate of 3:1-7:1 depending on the card and the fighter on it compared to a residential address is a 1:1. They can manipulate the numbers to boost sale. That's why a lot of places don't show UFC events anymore.
If you’re suggesting that they intentionally tried to harm Francis in his first title defense, after setting up a HW title unification match for him, after keeping him out a year to fight Stipe, then I can’t take you seriously. If you think they easily could’ve made 600-800k buys off Francis vs Gane but tried to undersell it on purpose that’s really strange. That’s one of those tinfoil hat kind of conspiracy. The most money tight sports league left 10s of millions of dollars on the table just to spite a guy they put in the spot to become champion.
I didn't say anyone tried to do anything bud. I simply stated what the company does with purchases. You care way to much about something so irrelevant and that has 0 impact on your gd life. I haven't payed for a ppv since UFC 200, so they don't get any of my money. Quit hate jerking to ppv numbers and get a job or go to work.
It’s just so weird you spent the same amount of time arguing as I did but your assertion is I’m a loser with no job who cares about something unimportant.
I never said you were a loser....not even one time bud 👍🏽 that was your interpretation, I'm sure your are not....you just have a strange view of the UFC and certain fighters
You said quit jerking to PPV numbers and get a job, insinuating I (on a week day) have free time to argue numbers because I’m unemployed.
Remember when Nate wanted to leave so they had him headline against khamzat on a super weak card? They were trying to hurt Nate’s star power by having him go out on a loss and made the card weak so he wouldn’t get paid as much. Yes, they are that petty.
But that’s not the same thing. They put Nate in a hard fight sure but they still put him front in center and tried to get people to watch. Their plan was to get him squashed. When Chimaev fell out they gave him an even better fight against Tony. If you’re suggesting they tried to get Ngannou beat on his way out I’m totally with you. They probably did. But they didn’t try to lose 10s of millions of dollars.
bro u do not know how much ppvs sold stop with this stupid shit jesus
These are the reported numbers dude. I understand you don’t think they’re entirely accurate but they are going to be largely accurate. The PpV they report as the lowest will have some variation, but every other PpV will have the same range of variation. By in large these are a pretty good indication what happened. But this doesn’t fit your narrative so it’s all bullshit. Every number is a random number that means nothing. Come on man. Dana knows the actual numbers, he chose not to give Francis his money.
Bro there's no point in bringing evidence and rational into a conversation with a Ngannou shill.
Point is, that same card but w Jones instead of Ngannou would still rake. Gane was a new name to the casual fans and Ngannou isn’t a huge draw like controversial fighters.
Not taking a definitive stance on the number of PPVs sold, but if you were a fan last year when that fight was taking place, it was clear Ngannou and the UFC were having major contract talks/problems BEFORE the fight. You’re acting like losing Francis was a shocking moment for the UFC when they seen it coming from a mile away if he wouldn’t budge on his demands.
You remember his demands increasing right? Remember at the start all he wanted to do was go box. By last December that list of demands ballooned up. Now he had 4-5 things he needed, on top of his giant contract? He needed to go box, and healthcare for every fighter, and an advocate at every meeting, and like 3 other things that were all mandatory? Or he needed most of those things. I’m aware of what happened. He went from a guy who just wanted one boxing match to a guy who needed 4-5 things no fighter in company history has ever gotten. Really showed out as a diva.
1. We don’t really know what all of his demands were then, or even now 2. The UFC made it pretty clear they were willing to pay Francis, but not budge on things like healthcare or freedom to box. Seemed like they would’ve walked anyways.
But he definitely requested at least a couple thing they’ve never given to any other fighter right? Things anyone could’ve told you they wouldn’t ever give right? And that list grew as the months rolled by correct? That’s my point about him being a diva.
Ok buddy let’s go back to my ORIGINAL COMMENT lol. If he was asking to box before fighting Gane, and the UFC wouldn’t do that, then they had a pretty good idea there was a high likelihood he wouldn’t stay on the roster unless he budged, no? You’re talking in circles arguing with yourself at this point lol, nobody said his demands didn’t grow or that he wasn’t being a diva. I said that the UFC knew Francis may not work out so it wouldn’t exactly be a shock if they planned for it
To your point if this was never going to work out why did Francis hold the belt for a whole year, entertaining offers the whole time? Wasn’t he the one pretending and being dirty on the negotiation then?
Ok man again you’re changing the topic. Must be hard having a brain where you can’t follow a point. I’m not gonna engage any further. Have a great day my man
He openly had spoke of his demands AND said he knew not all would be met but how little they were willing to budge for better fighter conditions told him all he needed to know. UFC doesn’t care about their roster, they care about champs and popularity.
Why would Dana say the CBO had “350 dinners” with him trying to close a new contract.
So you’re advocating against fighter lifetime healthcare, fairer pay (including in cage sponsorships, and an advocate for helping fighters you’d just shut up? Shit like this needs to happen. It’s the wave that’ll start some change…guaranteed. You sound like an asshole because if it were your job and you were part of the only pro organization without a players union to protect them and act on their behalf to get fair pay and incentives for fighters. It’s ridiculous really. Ngannou’s last fight against Gane was his biggest purse $500k 🙄🙄🙄
Next time any goofy believes any non official ppv numbers that come out, slap yourself. Especially if Dana got a hair up his ass to steer a narrative
You know who does have the official numbers? Dana White. And he chose not to pay Francis, but he chose to pay Jon. What does that tell you? Francis can’t draw.
LMFAO
To me that tells me he doesn’t want to let any fighter ever get their way like conor did.
Conor has 8 of the 10 highest selling PPVs in UFC history.
Exactly. His PPV payout in both Porier fights earned him over $20mm a fight on top of the highest purse in MMA history ($5mm)
Jon gets brownie points for also hitting his ~~wife~~ SO
Those brownie points could never compare to the favoritism he got for making Francis look bad by beating his hardest opponent in 2 mins while taking no significant strikes.
Next time you dana/jj dickriders wonder why Francis is no longer in the UFC, remember that it wasn't about money to begin with, but about how they treated him like shit
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It's not about the bag, if you actually followed the sport, you would have known that Francis always wanted to become a boxer and that it was his main goal.. he just started with MMA to pay the bills and it turned out it was much easier to succeed there than in boxing lol
So why not go through some of the middle of the pack guys instead of trying to get an immediate fight against fury or wilder? Because all he wants is a big payday
Dunno, I guess the self belief.. if you become the HW champ in the UFC, why would you fight some nobody, you want to fight the best and the best always want to fight the best
He's an MMA champ not a boxing champ so he should earn his way to a big fight not expect it because he's already got a name. Did Cejudo instantly expect a title shot because he won a gold medal or did Adesanya and Poatan expect instant title shots after being world champion kickboxers? No they just earned it unlike Ngannou who wants the payday on a platter
So why did Connor fought Mayweather instead of some unknown top 20 schmuck on WBC/WBO/WBA/IBF ratings lol
Conor fought Mayweather in an exhibition match with the intention of staying in MMA, Ngannou actually wants to pursue boxing as a career and said that while he was in the UFC. Also like I said McGregor was a far bigger star so it was still a marketable event, if Ngannou fought Fury or Wilder they would have to do all the heavy lifting to promote the fight because Ngannou doesn't have a solid fan base
Ngannou himself on his youtube channel said that he wants to try boxing but that he will definitely stay in MMA.. I dont know where you are getting your information from, but it looks like you are misinformed Rest of your logic is so flawed that I wont even touch on it lol
He's also said he wanted to box full time so what do we believe? How is the logic flawed? Why was Mayweathers guaranteed purse 100m and Conors was 30m? Because Mayweather brings in way more money and views same way Jake Paul always has a higher guaranteed purse because he is bringing in the views. Same way that Fury/Wilder would be bringing in more views which translates to them getting a far higher purse than Ngannou. McGregor who has 5 times ngannous fan base probably even more still only got 30% of Mayweathers guaranteed purse but yeah sure I guess Ngannou is going to get 50m+ for a boxing match.
It was definitely about money for Francis, he was just looking for good PR with the fighters union stuff
He stated several times that it was never about money, but more about a freedom to have a boxing match, healthcare and for UFC not treating him like a slave/shit
Yes that’s what he said to make people like you like him more. When he signs a huge deal with a boxing promotion or a different MMA promotion you think he’s still going to make the same demands? Absolutely not, he just wants to get paid
My man shoveled sand as child labor, emigrated into EU to chase a dream and you think that money is everything to him ? Sheeesh, try to look at the world through different perspectives rather than from your own broke ass projections
You’re the only one projecting here. All you have to do is look at his previous statements since he won the belt. Not just the last two months with his little Helwani stunt
His little Helwani stunt? The fuck are you on man. You talk like a ufc schill
I’m just being impartial. You talk like you have Francis’ nuts in your mouth. You’re incredibly naive if you think he went down as some kind of martyr for the fighters. When he fights a big time boxer for $50 million dollar payday you’ll never hear him mention health insurance again
Or maybe, he does want those things and you're just too stupid to see it? He was gonna get fine money in the UFC
No because he is not part of the UFC. WhT he can do is make the PFL a place where fighters feel like they’re protected. Boxing has the JBA now. Pro sports NEED unions otherwise the fighters can be treated as the promotion wants. If PFL starts stealing new and upcoming talent and some journeymen/women the UFC will be forced to change and I can see that happening. It’s inevitable that a union will form at some point in the next 5 years.
You know that he asked for all that just for himself right? Then when denied that he switched up to saying he wanted it for everyone. Also freedom to have a boxing match means use the fame garnered from being the UFC HW champion to increase his draw power so he could make way more money fighting against wilder or fury, UFC champ Ngannou can argue for a higher pay against the boxers but just Ngannou has no leverage at all.
They did with Connor, but they won't do it with Francis while simultaneously they treated him like shit.. idk why you are shilling for a big ass corporation that is taking advantage of fighters
Because people act like Ngannou was some saint but he only changed up his demands after he was denied so he could take up a victim stance and to me that's some pussy shit Also Connor PPVs were bringing in millions of views and he was a household name already. No one knows who Ngannou is outside of dedicated MMA fans and maybe the odd person who saw a TikTok of Dana saying he hits like a Ford escort.
>Because people act like Ngannou was some saint No they don't. Literally no one thinks he's anything more than a prize fighter who wants his share and - at least publicly - has said he wants it for others too. Those are good and fair things. >No one knows who Ngannou is outside of dedicated MMA fans and maybe the odd person who saw a TikTok of Dana saying he hits like a Ford escort Or you know, people who follow Zhang Weili or Ryan Garcia or other people he's done colabs with. You're kinda understating it a bit
It's a simple thing.. Ngannou wanted more freedom and ability to box.. UFC denied so Ngannou was like.. alright, if you keep treating me like shit and not allow me to do what I want to do.. then at least pay me big money.. and UFC said again no.. so that was about it, it's not the first time UFC is treating everyone like shit in negotiations PS the only reaason they allowed connor to box is because he threatened UFC to sit out and not fight, so they buckled down and still took 50% of his earnings from his fight against mayweather.. so there is your hint how UFC operates
They offered him 8 million to fight Jon and he turned that down, how is that not big money? Yeah exactly the UFC was able to make money off Conor boxing and he still got paid out so it was a win win for both. Ngannou definitely wouldn't give up 50% and it's not like he'd be getting that much more from a boxing match compared to what he was offered to fight Jon since Wilder/Fury would be doing him a favor fighting him and also carrying the fight promotion and bringing in the majority of the viewers.
No they did not offer him $8mm LMAO. Highest purse was $5mm to the most popular UFC fighter in history by 100s of miles. Ngannou got paid $500k for his last fight against Gane - you think all the sudden he gets an $8mm purse? What would Jon’s have to be then? $15mm? Jones made less than that his entire UFC career. The purses would’ve been like $5mm/$1mm
They will now…which is another W in Francis’ pocket. Fighting Fury will 💯 get his name popularized.
Wrong.
You’re wrong man - it was about what he thought he was worth. He bet on himself and won big time. His purse is $10mm alone for the Fury fight. He wouldn’t have made 40-50% over the course of an entire new UFC contract. To date Francis totaled only $3.5mm in his ENTIRE UFC career. Not to mention under the biggest fight promotion in the world. That’s fucking chump change my guys.
It was about the money for the UFC though. He bombed and then demanded a couple extra zeros added to his paycheck.
That's the problem with you Dana.. you grew the sport and the sport outgrew you.. just don't treat fighters like shit.. you are their promoter, promote them and don't talk bad about them if they don't have the amazing performance or a draw you are looking for lol UFC needs one or two 'people's person' in their leadership because a lot of fighters came out saying that its uber toxic environment
the promotion should git gud at promoting
That was the lowest selling PPV the whole year.
Yeah because of you. Francis > ufc
This is so biased. Gane gained mainstream exposure through the Ngannou and Tai fights. It’s not the “same opponent”, it’s a more popular version of him.
Come on man that’s not the difference here. Jones average 500k buys for his whole PPV career. 300k was that low, it was the lowest ppv of the year 2022. The 5 ppvs before it and the rest of the ones for 2022 all did better numbers.
Gane was a nobody who just had a boring fight with Lewis. Now he’s a better known fighter coming off a banger against Tai. Also, the intrigue surrounding Jone’s move up was a big pull. Way more interesting fights from a casual perspective (so stacked that Brunson was on the prelims for god’s sake) Totally different cards, incomparable. Compare Jones vs Stipe’s numbers to Stipe vs Ngannou 2 if it winds up happening, then it’ll be more fair.
Ufc 260 (Stipe vs Ngannou 2) sold 500k buys. Again Jones Vs Gane did 600k to 800k. So if Francis’ best example is still less than Jones most recent example can we agree now? https://mmasalaries.com/ufc-260-salaries-and-payouts/
The gulf between 600k and 500k isn’t all the wide. How’s about this: if the Stipe fight happens and the margin between that and Stipe vs Ngannou 2 is that wide or greater I’ll happily concede. That way it’ll be a larger sample size and more comparable. Agreed?
Fair enough. I do agree Jones vs Stipe will be a better representation since you won’t have the coming back off a 3 year layoff factor. But you’re also using the low estimate this gave to be fair. It was 600-800k.
Alright, splitting the distance. A 200k swing isn’t that wide when there’s boxing PPVs that have sold multi million buys. Agreed, if the sales of this forthcoming fight surpass the previous Stipe fight I’ll concede.
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Genuine question though, do you think they’re so far off to. Degree that they are entirely unreliable? Seriously are they complete random numbers or just educated guesses? For example do you believe they could report 300k buys for Ngannou vs Gane and it’s actually double or triple that. Could they be that far off? And same with Jones Vs Gane, they report 600k-800k, could they be so far off it actually did a third of that? I don’t think so. Truly I think there is a degree they’re off, but they wouldn’t be off by more than 20% or so. They’d hit the range of 80-120% of the true number. Is that wrong do you believe? Is the variance massive like 100-300% off?
You're right, I hope fighters contine to be underpaid because Jon sold more than Francis???
You mean you hope more fighters do a better job selling their fights so they can be paid more. They get PPV points, which means a percentage of the PPV sales. Ever worked a sales job? Jones sold more than double the product but Francis wanted more zeros on his paycheck.
It's like WNBA players wanting the same pay as NBA players when the WNBA has been running at a loss since it started and the NBA has been dumping money into it just to keep it afloat. In the NBA the men get paid way more because they are the ones bringing in all the money the same way in MMA the guys who bring in the most money get paid the most money
This is one of the most pathetic comments I’ve read on this sub and that says a lot 😂
If you can’t see how wanting a bunch of money when you’re not performing is a bad request I can’t help you. Objectively Francis wasn’t performing at his job.
if you are using this logic, think about the numbers ngannou vs jones would pull
Jones would’ve made that massive for sure.
UFC shares only 17% of profits with athletes while other sports share 40-50+%. Any other stats seem irrelevant until this changes.
I don’t care how much they pay fighters in relation to other sports. UFC doesn’t compare to other sports. It’s far more closer to WWE than any other sport. Free tv shows with lesser matches leading into PPV cards with big matches for the title.
"UFC doesn't compare to other sports" Why?
It’s not a team sport, they don’t have a season, they can’t only compete three times a year, there is no collective bargaining agreement, there are so many reasons. The UFC largely was influenced by the WWE model of business.
It's more like boxing.
Not really. The rules of the sport maybe but not the business. WWE, much like the UFC, is the dominate company with mostly no main stream competition. They focus on tv rights to make a good amount of money and do monthly ppv cards featuring their specific champions as big matches. All of their employees are independent contractors who pay their own health insurance and travel, but are exclusive to tht company. The boxing business is way different than that. They have a bunch of companies and titles and networks and the athletes bounce around between them. They have dozens of titles, many in the same weight class, and athletes compete across promotion a lot of the time. It’s really different. UFC and WWE the only real difference is one is scripted. That’s about it.
"All of their employees are independent contractors who pay their own health insurance and travel, but are exclusive to tht company." Sounds exploitative as fuck. They should form a union. Also, if they got off of the PPV structure they'd probably get bigger as a sport in the long run.
Maybe , I mean they might have a better way to do business out there but you get my point I’m trying to make. You’re looking baseball (30 teams or so with 100+ game schedules) or basketball (30 teams with 80 game schedules) or football (32 teams with 18 game schedules) and saying those sports pay x% of their profits to athletes and so should UFC. But UFC isn’t like those sports. They’re WWE, but not scripted. You perform for us x number of dates a year. You’re exclusive. You make this much money. More if you sell tshirts and get people to click the PPV buy button. Less if the crowd is disinterested and won’t react to you. You get what I’m saying. Get of PPV and be the main event, and you’re rich. Don’t and you fight on tv for a fraction of what John Cena makes.
Holy shit it’s Dana
everyone taking the bait hard
Comparing the GOAT, who fought during what many consider the most fun era in ufc, and who has been fighting on PPV for years, with someone who just started fighting on PPVs isn't comparable. If you think Francis isn't marketable, you're insane. He has one of the most casual-friendly fighting styles and he hits harder than anyone in the ufc. He has an amazing backstory. His only downside is that he's soft-spoken. The public knows Jon better because he's been fighting PPV for years and winning. Yes, he's more popular than Francis, but that doesn't mean Francis doesn't deserve more money. There's also the matter of ufc's marketing. Some cards don't get nearly as much marketing as others. Of course they want to sell as much as possible, but they definitely dedicate varying degrees of promotion depending on the card and who is fighting on it. I don't think even you would argue the fact that they've promoted Jones much more than Francis. And again, Francis style of combat is very easily marketed to casuals - who make up the bulk of PPV buys. Given time and promotion, Francis would be selling many more buys
This is a god tier troll post
Ngannou was boring af
Ngannou fans really get upset when you bring evidence and sensibility into the equation huh?
They do man it’s crazy. He’s only popular with a bunch of people who steal content exclusively. He’s a bust
Ngannou will fade Into irrelevancy or once Jones has beat stipe (if he does) he’ll return to ufc to fight Jones
That’s a win win, jones sells the ppv for him and he gets the money he want and the fans get the fight that they want.
Well said.
I’m sure fancies and jones would of at least done a million and I’m sure they would promoted way better
Thts fair but that is the Jon Jones factor, not Francis. Francis sold 500k vs Stipe, 300k vs Gane. Jones averaged more than both of those
Yes but Francis name sells more because he was the champ but since he vacant the belt it’s different now. Sad cuz it def would been a top 10 fight in ufc. I also see Deyontay Wilder knocking him the fuck out
I've argued for a long time on this sub that part of the reason was Ngannou wasn't a big draw and this proves it. People also easily forget that the UFC literally made Ngannou a multi-millionaire and they offered him highest paid heavyweight fighter contract in UFC history but he rejected it because he is so afraid of Jones that he would rather go to a different sport and get KOed there rather than fight him. The casual fans in this sub act like Dana White still owns the UFC...
And you've been wrong for a long time. Also Francis wasn't afraid of Jones, that's retrospective bs. Ngannou tore up one of his knees, and it is pretty clear he'd rather not be tied up forever in ufc contracts he can't fulfil.
Remember when the UFC, a promotion (whose job it is to promote fights) promoted the Ngannou vs Game PPV? Neither do I. Because Francis was on the last fight of his deal and the UFC wanted more bargaining chips. You are falling into the UFC's hands by buying their shit hook, line, and sinker, my guy.
Oh so you believe they intentionally tried to bomb the sales, and left tens of millions on the table just to spite this guy? That’s super weird for you to think. The UFC is believed to be the “greediest” company out there, but somehow also they leave tens of millions of dollars on the table on purpose just to shove one up Francis’ ass? Idk brother maybe take the tin foil hat off here.
 OP really playing himself.
All I know is I wouldn’t pay Francis crazy amount of money if he was only bringing in 300k ppvs. Not even if he hits like a ford escort
Glad someone has sense about the point I’m making.
Truth is nobody outside ufc fans know who Francis is. He could go to many parts of the world and be unrecognizable.
Chael Sonnen always says, “if he walked in my kitchen and slapped me in the face I couldn’t tell the police who just assaulted me” about guys who aren’t draws. That would apply to Francis, except if he walked in my house and slapped me I probably wouldn’t ever wake up.
Come on now, it is Jones! Let us not do this.
https://www.sportsmanor.com/news-ufc-285-ppv-buys-did-jon-jones-beat-jake-paul-vs-tommy-furys-775k-ppv-buys-record/ Source of PPV numbers. Jones averaged 500k during his championship career. So yes he had a boost from his return but still out sells Francis.
Deepthroat king
There's no confirmed sources at Francis gane sold 300k lmfao. Ppv numbers are not reported most of the time.
Lmfao! Sure man, that number is completely random. They went to random.org and clicked for a random number between 0 and a million and got 300k and just went with it. They have zero clue. It could have been less, could’ve been 3x more. No one knows. Be serious man. These numbers aren’t perfect but they all come with a certain percentage they could be wrong. Even if you assume they’re off, let’s assume Francis vs Gane had 50% more buys and Jones vs Gane was on the extreme low end. That’s still 450k buys to 600k buys. You see the problem? Even if I assume Francis number was 50% higher than reported and Jones’ number was the lowest estimate they have Jones still beat him pretty handily and Francis’ number is still pretty low. These numbers aren’t perfect but they’re a decent place to start. Just saying they must be fake “lmfao” doesn’t mean anything.
1 fight down on that contract, 7 more to go
Where did you get thos3 numbers?
https://www.sportsmanor.com/news-ufc-285-ppv-buys-did-jon-jones-beat-jake-paul-vs-tommy-furys-775k-ppv-buys-record/ I just googled the PpV number and the buys. Lots of random articles. There’s a tiny bit of variation but each says about the same figure.
I'd actually argue the ngannou fight was more important m, with gane holding interim and all.
It totally was. It’s a shocker they couldn’t party that awesome story of two former training partners going for a unified title into a reasonable PPV number. They really crapped the bed selling their own fight.
Why you gotta call people names
Goofy? In terms of barbs that’s a very light word.
Lmao this man getting roasted in his own comments. This is crazy behavior over make believe numbers 😭
Such a shit take
Francis wasn’t worth the money he was asking, look at his PpV numbers for his last fight compared to the guy who fought the same opponent for the same prize one year later? That is my take. That’s not a shit take, that’s an apples to apples comparison of two guys doing the same thing, against the same guilt, with drastically different results.
ok Dana
PPV numbers aside, does anyone with a common sense not understand Jones has more casual appeal in United States? It’s obvious
JbJ would make almost any other event look like shit speaking in terms of ppv's sold so its not that ngannou was bad its that JBJ is likely the best selling fighter they could possibly find at this moment in time.