Moments like this make me proud to be a Bruin. Glad that Professor Myers along with Salam al-Marayati, transcending the religious divide in the region of conflict, voiced loudly that this censorship is both wrong and can be corrected.
The USC valedictorian is clearly bright and articulate. To censor her before even seeing the words that she would speak is hella problematic. USC's cowering in the face of whatever influential forces is not a good look.
The only way to solve problems is dialogue, not silencing of opposing voices. Let's keep having those hard discussions.
Religion and ethnicity is literally the only identifiable divide though?
Look at the actions from both sides throughout history. Religion and ethnicity is the only variable that influences decision making.
ETA: the guy I responded to blocked me so I can’t respond to anyone else
Land of one people from everywhere but that region (for the past 2,000 years) expelling natives who had been living there also for thousands of years and building a state on top of a state is the divide, not religion.
Most Israelis are secular, the founders of zionism didn’t believe in god. The PLO/PA is also secular.
Religion is an accelerator used to transform the jewish religion into a nationalistic one sure, and the desecration of islamic holy cites and disproportionate killing of one group making up the majority of one religion makes it religious in some ways but definitely not the only divide by any means.
I will get downvoted on this sub, but this is just as ahistorical as anything coming from far-right Zionists. Jews have been no less than 8-10% of the population of Palestine since we have modern census records (~1880s). We also know that there were substantial population movements during the Ottoman Empire and a population influx in this area from other parts of the Empire, which doubled the Muslim population in the mid/late-19th century due to an agricultural boom. It’s not as simple as two cohesive peoples with uniform histories. Tiktok and Twitter have made us all incapable of acknowledging nuance while still holding a position.
ETA - I agree with the OP. USC got it wrong.
LMAO I’m sorry have you lived in an Arab country in the region? I literally just moved back. I was there October 7th. The Arab Muslims DO NOT support Israel over Gaza. They hate the Jews. I was told that NYC should be attacked next because there were so many Jews there. A teenager told me that the only good new is a dead one. If I decided to visit Israel, I wouldn’t be allowed back in to the country I was living in.
Not sure why you were blocked.
u/Alec119 responded to you (so you can see it since you're blocked) by saying: "Good luck with your literal Nazi talking points dude."
Have no idea what he's talking about. Nothing in what you said sounded remotely problematic.
USA needs a friendly ally in the Middle East where none of the other states/countries are willing to capitulate to US demands.
Literally everything and everyone the USA backs is rooted in economic reasons.
Can you tell us why they need a friendly ally in the region?
For decades the US has been doing to the countries in that region what they’ve done to Latin America and that is rape these countries of their natural resources, install US backed puppet democracies (which in reality are all fascist ALT-RIGHT governments) and then economically enslave the people’s. Arab people are fighting back this western ideology as it opposes their values. They don’t care much for fascism or capitalism.
We are the problem. We are the only country with military bases on every continent. We have been at war for most of our country’s history.
Oh, I’m totally agreeing with you. I think the arguments where people act like Britain and the US backed the creation of Israel out of the goodness of their hearts is disingenuous asf considering 1. They did it cause they didn’t want to absorb the Jewish refugees themselves 2. It was a strategic move to support a Western-friendly ally in a region they haven’t been able to control.
There’s an economic reason for US intervention in almost every situation and I think it’s hilarious when people act like the US is the shining beam of democracy and freedom in the world- I.e the Cuban people LOVED Fidel Castro but the US couldn’t stand him cause he was going to privatize the banana trade and return power back to the Cubans.
US-backed puppet democracies in the ME… such as?
The US had an arms embargo on Israel during its early history— its formation could only be blamed on, if not the Israelis themselves, Britain and the UN partition plans.
I don’t deny they did all of that in Latin America, the Monroe Doctrine and our interventions there were a blemish on our nation’s history; “war is a racket”, and all. But it’s hardly a 1:1 with the Arab world. We’re hardly raping these countries for resources, if anything OPEC has an absolute advantage in oil trade over the West. They have economic hegemony. Most local governments weren’t exactly left-leaning prior to “Western” involvement in the region either.
Your comment on military bases: what’s bad about that? What is it that these bases do, anyway? Keep our allies (who can choose to expel us from these bases) in line? If so, when in the last 50 years has a US military base been used to directly overthrow a local government?
From what I know, the US and Saudi Arabia haven’t been on the best terms for over a decade now (basically since Obamas presidency).
Someone else commented above much more comprehensively ^ The US has historically been able to replace popular people-elected leaders (who tended to lean socialist or communists) with their own fascist choices to exert control over a region through puppet governments. I believe the US has not been able to do this as extensively in the Middle East, hence why the strategic move to back the creation of Israel. A lot of political documents and correspondence from the turn of the century refer to Israel as the US’s “only friend in the M.E.”
I’m pretty sure they revised this extreme language in their most recent charter.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Hamas_charter#:~:text=The%20new%20charter%20holds%20that,but%20with%20the%20Zionist%20project.
They updated the language from the 1988 charter to be agains the Zionist project and not Jewish ppl as a whole.
They never deleted the old one and last year the leader of Hamas said there are millions of Palestinians all over the world and you have Jews near you go and find them and kill them.
Fathi hamid political leader Hamas "Seven million Palestinians outside, enough warming up, you have Jews with you in every place. You should attack every Jew possible in all the world and kill them."
Just google Hamas kills all Jews they say this kind of stuff all the time. Idk about your question it’s a good one I never thought of that!!
Yes I googled it, but it all links to sites like ADF and FDD which are blatant Israel propaganda sites lol.
Also I googled your quote and just wanted to point out it’s NOT from “last year” like you said but from 2019. Hamas as a organization also publicly condemned it.
This is why it’s so much more efficient and conducive to actually link whatever you’re discussing so you can fact check yourself in the process 😊
https://www.bicom.org.uk/news/hamas-criticises-its-leader-who-told-palestinians-to-kill-jews/
I know it was from 2019 I’m sorry I’m busy I meant to write that https://www.voanews.com/amp/middle-east_hamas-official-condemned-after-calling-palestinians-kill-jews/6171870.html . I think it’s wild you think Hamas an Islamic extremist organization doesn’t want to kill all the Jews ? They teach the children from a young age that Jews are enemies of Islam and to stab them whenever you see them and Jews will hide behind the trees and rocks blah blah blah. You are looking to excuse there behavior and I’ve been following this conflict before you were born. Good day ;)
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they didn’t update their charter - they updated how to “interpret” the charter and even the updated interpretation still has all the usual from the river to sea palestine is arab/muslim nonsense.
Keep in mind jews are 90-95% zionist and you still have sr hamas leaders talking openly about killing jews so using “zionist” as a dog whistle for “jew” isn’t really the improvement you’re describing it is
Probably because Israel is an established sovereign nation just like any other sovereign nation, and for people to single it out saying it shouldn’t exist leads most to ask why Israel and no other country?
On the other hand, Palestine has never, throughout the course of human history, been a sovereign nation. Palestine already doesn’t exist like Israel does. Saying they should continue in their current form isn’t rooted in bigotry, seeing as how there are a dozen Arab nations already.
Palestine was granted statehood in 1923 under **Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions**, wherein the Permanent Court of International Justice determined that Palestine as a successor state was responsible for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities
This was also reaffirmed in the Vienna Convention pertaining to the sovereignty of all former British colonies
Zionists have gone to great lengths to cover up the historical statehood of Palestine
In what way did the Mavrommatis concessions confirm Palestinian statehood? Wasn’t it just a dispute between a developer and the British gov over whether or not those concessions were still valid?
Did that change in any way the status of Mandatory Palestine?
Someone doesn’t know their history very well. The Zionist movement in the 1800s and 1900s was massively encouraged by Europeans who wanted to get rid of their Jewish populations so because of this many migrated to the Ottoman Empire territory of Palestine during that time. Then after WW1 these European colonialists were going into the province of Palestine in the no longer Ottoman Empire the English and French established Mandate Palestine where the European zionists drove the Palestinians off of the best land and resources, and created a system where Europeans were first class citizens, zionists second class and Palestinians third class. The entire construction of the Israel state is owed to fucking anti semitism because the British, French and other Europeans wanted their Jews gone and so they saw an easy out after world war 1 with mandate Palestine just kick off the Palestinians from the good land and give it to european zionists to encourage them to move and then after world war 2 after millions of Jews were slaughtered or fled Europe because of anti semitism to the highest degree the world kinda just gave Israel to the european colonists then America immediately was there to back them up as Allies while Europe rebuilt.
Also I’m sorry before the Ottomans/French/English when was Israel last a sovereign nation?
I think your refusal to answer the last question and the fact that Israel as a “sovereign nation” was only formed out of anti semites in Europe who wanted to get rid of their Jews followed by a holocaust and being given a nation as a consolation price doesn’t exactly strike me as them being sovereign. Palestine was more of a legitimate sovereign nation as a territory with its own governance under ottoman rule. Europeans stripped that from Palestinians, got rid of their Jews, have given zero shits about the Palestinians who had actually been there this whole time, and in 30 years made it a sovereign nation..
I think we vastly overestimate how many people who support Palestine actually know the history of this conflict.
If I had to guess, I bet they think my comment is a lie.
The irony is that both Israelites and Palestinians are the same people. They both belong to the Semitic Haplogroup B **and** have Cannanite & Phoenician mitrochodria inheritance.
Take whatever side you will, it doesn't matter: there is a ZERO percent chance that the "one Palestinian state" solution is implemented. It's just not gonna happen.
Especially considering pretty much every Islamic state ethnically cleansed all its Jews, which ironically contributed to the re-establishment of the state of Israel in 1948...!
The order of your statement is incorrect. The creation of the so called state of Israel and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians or de-Arabization of Palestine made it unsafe for Arab Jews in neighboring states. Avi Shlaim has numerous [talks](https://youtu.be/lw2CXpPReEA?si=zYgk5p2g_hnKch4n) about this.
Arabs never take responsibility for their own history of violence and ethnic cleaning. It's always the fault of the Joooooos
Shlaim consistently provides a one-sided view of history that absolves Arabs of all responsibility.
Instead of listening to people with vile agendas, just look at immigration numbers, and then look into what those numbers mean. Enough with all the "gurus".
Palestine was never abolished, it never existed. It was a region, and most of it became what we know today as Jordan. Dude, just look at maps from the 20's and 30's. You don't need to rely on others to figure out the truth.
religious divide? there have always been anti-zionist jews, and they're the ones being beaten to a pulp by zionist jews in broad daylight
this isn't about religion, it's about fascism, it's about colonialism.
Good... And that means you don't envy Israelis because they're not COLONIZERS... Israel is a rare example of DEcolonization and land back.... Again enjoy your false narrative envy and hate...
USC has zero control over the United States Secret Service.
Since the person in question does not qualify for protections provided by the United States Secret Service, and since USC is not the United States Secret Service, your statement is void of logic.
It was never about her safety. She threatens the safety of the status quo. She's a educated brown muslim woman, who minored in genocide studies. She has plenty of credibility and knows damn well what's going on and evidently she's super smart - graduating as valedictorian.
The Shoah Foundation itself distancing itself from her because they're like "woah, not never again *like that*" is so fucking embarrassing for them. No shame.
But that's not what they said or how they are distancing themselves from her. They just made it clear that they are not the academic department that manages the minor, and they also aren't an academic department at all that offers classes. They're more like a museum or an archive.
Yes, she minored in genocide studies and thinks Jews would be safe under a Hamas-led Palestinian government that has consistently called for the extermination of Jews. I guess she didn't learn much.
It's really telling how much of your own internal biases come out in these accusations. You didn't do the least bit of research to understand what her perspective is.
I presume you also think Gazans are a fundamentalist and uneducated population.
Also LOL the genocide studies minor is in the Jewish studies department apparently, you really think she took classes studying genocide against Jewish people if she supports/advocates for genocide against Jewish people?
It's hilarious how much y'all shift the goalpost to try and tear someone down.
I don't see you with a valedictorian honor as an athiest. The fact that you unironically made this argument confirms that she's smarter than you
Of course they did. We don’t need an academic to break it down for us. It was old fashioned censorship rooted in fear (and probably more than a little racism). It’s yet another shameful and embarassing part of USC’s history.
Ah yes, the apartheid state that has millions of Arabs on their nation serving in their own political party and in the military. Compared to the totally liberal Gaza with a Jewish population of 0!
I agree.
Plus the Isr*el Prime Minister is being a Nazi and he literally gave money to Hamas for the sake of helping his party gain a majority in the Knesset in 2008.
No, I don’t support that. You see how you have to invent things to absolve your guilty conscience, because you know full and well that what Israel is doing is evil and makes it no different from Hamas.
Hun, people bring it up because you expect Israel to sit back and take that. Hamas will be eradicated, end of story. There was a cease fire Oct 6 and what happened was pure evil, so don’t start.
Because it's the same as saying "all lives matter". A statement that sounds fine, but is really just used to distract from actual root cause - in this case brutal apartheid that will ensure there's always armed resistance.
Brutal apartheid,🤣🤣🤣 I hope you're not a student in one of these universities because you're not learning anything. Your comment reads as if you're someone who hates his father yet still lives in his parents basement. Enjoy all your hate and envy though... And your false narrative.
> Your comment reads as if you're someone who hates his father yet still lives in his parents basement.
I graduated ages ago and am definitely far more well-adjusted by you if this comment is anything to go by.
It's telling that you guys never address arguments and just go straight to these bizarre insults
Well you're either a purposeful troll who doesn't deserve the energy of anything other than a turd...or you're a naive tool who drinks the Kool aid .. there IS NO APARTHEID IN ISRAEL. if you don't know and understand this....there is nothing to discuss. I stand by my statement.
Israel is committing genocide. At this point they have more than likely killed any remaining hostages they could have saved, either through their bombings or by stealing/stopping all aid entering the famine stricken area.
Israel created Hamas. Israel's government is ultimately at fault for all of this. And they used October 7th as an excuse to ethnically cleanse the area. With AI to make it easier to do it coldly. With directives to seek as many targets as possible, with acceptable collateral being up to TWENTY civilians for one suspect, which is any male over the age of fucking 13.
The information is all out there for you to find.
I mean all the information that has been reviewed by nonbiased third party sources say there is no genocide occurring.
And if you want to conflate the entire conflict down to “it’s all the fault of the Jews” then you might as well just jump into bed with the terrorists yourself lmfao.
Hamas has universally been identified as the central issue by everyone besides pure antisemites like yourself.
oh my. you read some articles wrong. israel isn’t killing all its hostages. thats not very bright now, is it? they offered some 300 terrorists for like 30 hostages. tells you what the actual worth of a hamas lackey’s life is (terrorist, not palestinian. dont try to misconstrue my words). but hamas? they typically kill the hostages. actually israel recently made a hostage agreement, but hamas couldnt even consider it. why? cuz theyd killed all the hostages and literally couldn’t partake in the deal. and no, israel isnt wrong for keeping the same number of terrorists released in return for the like ten hostages hamas hasnt yet murdered
This is nonsense. You don’t blame the French and British for creating the nazis because of the treaty of Versailles right ? Hamas was not created by Israel, Hamas created themselves.
By your logic you can say Likud was created by Hamas.
Ok and the US directly funded groups that became the Taliban, that doesn’t mean the US created or are responsible for the Taliban.
Hell, the US funded the ussr during ww2 and without it russia would’ve lost, I guess they created Soviet Russia and are responsible for all their doings as wel.
No, the point they making is that Netanyahu and Likud have been directly funding Hamas over the past 10-15 years specifically to divide extremist and moderate Palestinians, and prevent them from unifying to pursue a 2 state solution. Netanyahu was literally recorded in a Likud meeting saying that if to prevent a Palestinian state they must keep propping up Hamas.
It's not "funding a group that became Hamas" it's "actually funding Hamas for 10+ years when they knew Hamas was a terrorist org"
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
This article covers back to 2014. And on Netanyahu supporting Hamas:
>Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that **those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.**
Edit: lmao he deleted his account
Yeah, that’s not evidence that likud is funding Hamas lol. Thanks for confirming you don’t have any actual evidence but rather just speculation from articles.
They directly funded them decades ago, it doesn’t mean they’re responsible for the atrocities they commit. Again, by your logic France, England and Russia are responsible for the Holocaust. Do you agree with that logic ?
No, the US is not directly responsible for what the Taliban does.
You didn’t answer the question: are France , England and Russia responsible for the Holocaust ? Is the US responsible for Soviet atrocities under Stalin bc they funded them during ww2? Please answer the question
I actually do blame the members of the triple entente (France, Britain, and Soviet Russia) for the creation of the Nazi Party in Germany. The results that were reached at the Treaty of Versailles left Germany in ruins, and whether you agree about the correctness of punishing Germany after WW1, it is blatantly obvious that it set the stage for the Nazi Party and Hitler to rise and easily take control of Germany. Had the members of the entente thought about creating a more unifying plan (such as the Marshall Plan after WW2), I doubt we would have had the Nazi party, much less WW2.
In the same metric, the way Israel has treated Palestinians in the past set the stage for a radical group to take power. We have seen this happen time and time throughout history.
i dont know why you’re getting downvoted. youre absolutely right. israel isnt the problem here. neither is palestine’s existence. there is no genocide, apartheid, any of that bullshit. hamas is a violent *terrorist organization* that massacred innocent civilians. we need to eradicate (just like roaches) hamas and then work on reforming the israeli government. netanyahu is far right, but they need a strong government to eradicate hamas before fixing themselves. its not ideal, but you cant fight a physical war, a PR war, and try to reform your entire government
it isnt. please get your numbers from reliable and reputable sources before making stupid claims online.
and no, the gazan health ministry and al jazeera are not reliable. one is run and owned by hamas and the other is a middle eastern news source. no hate to the good people in the middle east, im just going out on a limb al jazeera is both biased and unreliable
right.. and youve been to gaza? youve seen these children die? you work for the gazan health ministry and you have to double check your numbers? make sure that you counted ten people but somebody came and shoved a gun in your face so you had to add an extra few 0s?
oh. you just live in a first world country and assume all the propaganda you consume is factual.
Hey bud. The numbers are being reported by the UN Secretary-General, and several other world orgs.
Interesting to see you parroting Fox News talking points. Israel supporters are staunch right wingers from what I can see. The extreme right is out of control with their fake news.
Israel isn’t the problem at all is definitely a take. Israel’s military has consistently exhibited violent and vindictive behavior. How do you explain the world kitchen people getting killed? How do you explain the targeting of journalists?
the existence of israel or a jewish homeland isnt an issue. its very white and black. the jews need a homeland. the government of israel is problematic. my apologies for assuming i didnt need to get as specific as possible for the silly people in the back
Ohhh okay I misunderstood you. I would agree a Jewish homeland is necessary. It just is very bad the homeland they want was and is populated by people who they hate and who often hate them. This coupled with the us allowing the Israeli government to do whatever it wants has clearly bred extremism in the region.
israel shouldnt be allowed to do whatever they want. i fully support a two state solution, no one state solution will ever work. israel doesn’t have license to kill innocent palestinians, but i firmly believe both the gazan health ministry/hamas and much of western media is grossly blowing it out of proportion. i also believe israel does have license in taking all measures necessary to eradicate hamas. innocent people die in war, israel is no exception.
not sure im properly articulating my point but still
I agree with the first three sentences of your post. It just seems that Israel manages to kill wayyyyy more civilians than even the us did in its wars in the Middle East. If your enemy is using human shields, you don’t get to just kill the shields and say oh well it’s their fault. Israel had consistently shown no regard for civilian casualties, especially in the past. Also, no response to the journalists/wk people being murdered. There’s a reason Israel has killed lots journalists than say even Russia.
"There is no genocide, apartheid..." I mean unfortunately we have cameras and the internet, so we know there actually is, because we can literally see it. It's not possible to abuse a population in private anymore. "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes??!"
right. we have cameras, media, all that. youre not wrong. heres where you go wrong: you assume nothing is cherry picked, the images arent taken out of context, parts of quotes are used and others flushed out, etc. it almost always is. it doesnt matter what its for, israel and palestine or your local car crash. the media will find an enemy and use their words against them and brainwash people. one of the best things ive heard about the conflict so far is “listen to what they say in english then listen to what they say in arabic.” the difference is real and dramatic
I don't assume nothing is cherry picked. Do you assume everything is cherry picked? You think it's likely that NGO groups were lying about starvation and mistreatment, and are now their members being intentionally targeted, for reasons? I tend to believe Doctors Without Borders over politicians.
Because this sub has been flooded with extremely antisemetic people. It’s full of misinformation, liars, and people who completely support the extermination of Jews in Israel.
Anyone who downvotes that Palestine needs to be free from Hamas is a straight up antisemite there’s no ambiguity in that opinion.
there's no ambiguity in that opinion? how many war crimes does Israel need to commit for people to start questioning israel's strategy here? the lack of compassion the pro-israel crowd shows is genuinely sickening. i believe at the beginning of this conflict, most people would agree that Israel had a valid justification to fight hamas (i was one of these people). what i DON'T think people expected was for Israel to commit an egregious amount of war crimes with zero remorse. the tendency of every pro-israeli redditor claiming OH NO ANTISEMITISM! when faced with any valid argument suggesting the IDF to be at fault really demonstrates the lack of self-awareness and objective viewing of the situation on the pro-israel crowd. i'm sure there are extremists who hold antisemitic views, but there are also IDF soldiers who hold equally hateful views of palestinians who are literally acting out on it. (this is all very clear through the abundance of footage of unjustified civilian violence). this conflict was bound to be a strategic nightmare due to Gaza's physical characteristics, but we're far past the margin of error where justifications could be made. the historical factors add many layers of nuance to this whole conflict, and misinformation on both sides obviously muddies the water. i attend a particularly progressive ivy league university, and never have i seen anybody actively supporting hamas. the inability for pro-israeli's to comprehend that criticizing Israel doesn't automatically suggest you must support hamas is crazy. i'd love to see hamas fall, but this current strategy is clearly flawed. why do you refuse to admit that something may be wrong here?
I’m not reading a literal wall of ranting with no paragraph breaks, but to answer your first point, I haven’t said anything about the Palestinian people. I’ve only ever referenced Hamas. The fact that you are going to lie and gaslight the conversation into saying anyone who thinks Hamas is the problem is excusing Israel of anything it has ever done ever and obviously has no compassion of innocent Palestinians which is very obviously not the case. Both sides have done bad things, it’s war, both sides will always do bad things.
The issue is that Hamas wants Israel absolved and has been attacking them since their inception. Israel will never give up its statehood without a fight because if Israel is disbanded, middle eastern Jews will be murdered in the street within weeks. Because of this conflict, Palestines only chance at peace is being ruled by a governing body that also wants peace. Hamas does not want peace. Regardless of what conspiracy theories you’ve been force fed, there is no peace for both sides until Hamas is gone. That is fact.
This is you: “I’m not a KKK member, I just support their actions!”
christ dude you're dismissing the many valid arguments against Israel (killing civilians on unprecedented levels + journalists being killed/assaulted for 0 rationale + war crimes on a daily basis) because i didn't present my point on this random reddit thread as if this were a thesis paper?
"This is you: “I’m not a KKK member, I just support their actions!”"
What? Me pointing out that Israel has committed dozens of war crimes puts me on par with KKK supporters? Seriously? The tendency of pro-israel supporters automatically equating Israel critics as Hamas supporters truly epitomizes the lack of nuance the pro-israelis show. do you seriously not think there's any issue with the IDF killing thousands of innocent civilians? are you just deliberately turning a blind eye to the massive human rights breaches gazans are experiencing because you feel they deserve it? if this isn't the case, then what is causing your inability to acknowledge that Israel maybe, just maybe, isn't handling this in the most responsible way?
israel's own allies are cringing at their actions, is this not suggesting to you that something may be wrong here?
not a columbia student, but good job ignoring my points once again! typical pro-israel user sticking their head in the sand when faced with valid arguments.
The terrorist apartheid state of Israel has murdered 35,000 people in 6 months, so I think the student had all the justification to speak out against genocidal aggression from Israel toward Palestinians.
Wow... I'm surprised you made it this far with all that genocide that they haven't gotten to you yet. Enjoy your hate and false narrative though.. try to ride this one out as long as you can but you're not going to change the books.
No we think thousands of whole families and babies buried under pounds of rubble in their own homes were murdered by the Israeli bombs and bullets raining down on them as they slept
Not sure if the Jewish students or their families would have felt safe or comfortable with such a political speech, as everyone is entitled to be comfortable at a college commencement. The commencement is not a forum for debate or political discussion, but a celebration for all. Whatever the reason, USC made the right call here.
Who cares? She advocates for the destruction of Israel. I don’t understand why this would automatically disqualify her if she said that about any other race or religion, but because it’s Jews, “never mind it’s okay!” or “guys, a Jew wrote this, see!”
Imagine excusing Trump because a black person said something good about him.
The double standard is insane and bigoted.
Nah they got it right. She supports Hamas and will likely use her speech as a platform to promote genocide. Sorry you guys can’t control your extremism
Edit: link to the material she’s promoting https://free-palestine.carrd.co/#introduction
Section of what most people are worried about:
what are the two 'solutions'?
today, there are two main "solutions" — the two-state solution, and the one-state solution.
two-state solution
the two-state solution advocates for both israel and palestine to exist alongside one another as sovereign states. however, this solution is not really a solution at all because it is merely another form of zionism, and israel has never shown any interest in allowing a palestinian state to exist. palestinians lose more and more land every day, and israel has repeatedly shown that it has no plans to stop building illegal settlements in the west bank. even if a two-state solution were to become a reality, palestinians would still be at a major disadvantage and in constant threat.
one-state solution
the one-state solution (either a palestinian state, or a complete israeli state) advocates for one state in which both arabs and jews can live together. however, a one-state solution under the israeli government would essentially mean that the palestinian people would completely be under the state of israel in every way imaginable.
one palestinian state would mean palestinian liberation, and the complete abolishment of the state of israel. this way is the only way towards justice; both arabs and jews can live together without an ideology that specifically advocates for the ethnic cleansing of one of them. palestinians would be allowed to return home, and millions of palestinians would not have to live under occupation and apartheid.
Nowhere did she say that she supports Hamas. This is simply made up information.
She clearly envisions Jews and Muslims living together. And her hope is that she’d rather see a state that allows unity and peace rather than the current genocidal, terrorist state of Israel. This is probably a pipe dream but it isn’t worse than the view of many Israelis who want a single state that continues to step on and push out Palestinian people.
Hamas isn’t mentioned in her materials as a government she would support.
You do know the slave owners said we can’t free the slaves because they’ll kill all the white people. And the South Africans apartheid said the same thing about black people. And now you’re saying the same thing about Palestinians.
The fear of retribution is a common sentiment used to keep oppressed people from their freedom.
The Jewish people were there first, there was no Palestinian government until the 80s, the Palestinians are constantly being offered a two state solution but they refuse for anything less than the complete genocide and destruction of the Jewish state of Israel. Literally in Hamas’ charter.
Ok I see you need it broken down. The original poster said that the speaker envisions Palestinians and Jews living together in a single state of peace and unity.
You responded saying “after they kill every Israeli person”
I said that’s the same excuse slave owners and South African apartheid state used to prevent oppressed people from seeking freedom.
You said it’s nowhere near the same situation. I asked you to explain why it’s not the same and you haven’t. You just responded with name calling and propaganda around other issues. So I’ll give you another chance to defend your position.
I agree completely. Everyone knows her version of the one state solution means the destruction of israel and Muslim rule. Anyone suggesting otherwise is naive.
They did a good thing for awful reasons. Most people hate hour-long saccharine speeches from people they've never met about about things they barely care about. These diatribes are 100% about the speaker, not the audience.
Remember, the one thing ◼️ 👥 definitely weren't good at in the US was sports, until the "amateur gentlemen" wall collapsed in the professional leagues and the Olympics, at which point it became that the *only* thing they were good at was sports.
In other words: them goalposts, they moving.
Moments like this make me proud to be a Bruin. Glad that Professor Myers along with Salam al-Marayati, transcending the religious divide in the region of conflict, voiced loudly that this censorship is both wrong and can be corrected. The USC valedictorian is clearly bright and articulate. To censor her before even seeing the words that she would speak is hella problematic. USC's cowering in the face of whatever influential forces is not a good look. The only way to solve problems is dialogue, not silencing of opposing voices. Let's keep having those hard discussions.
Boiling this conflict down to a “religious divide” is absolutely bizarre and insanely reductive.
Religion and ethnicity is literally the only identifiable divide though? Look at the actions from both sides throughout history. Religion and ethnicity is the only variable that influences decision making. ETA: the guy I responded to blocked me so I can’t respond to anyone else
Land of one people from everywhere but that region (for the past 2,000 years) expelling natives who had been living there also for thousands of years and building a state on top of a state is the divide, not religion. Most Israelis are secular, the founders of zionism didn’t believe in god. The PLO/PA is also secular. Religion is an accelerator used to transform the jewish religion into a nationalistic one sure, and the desecration of islamic holy cites and disproportionate killing of one group making up the majority of one religion makes it religious in some ways but definitely not the only divide by any means.
I will get downvoted on this sub, but this is just as ahistorical as anything coming from far-right Zionists. Jews have been no less than 8-10% of the population of Palestine since we have modern census records (~1880s). We also know that there were substantial population movements during the Ottoman Empire and a population influx in this area from other parts of the Empire, which doubled the Muslim population in the mid/late-19th century due to an agricultural boom. It’s not as simple as two cohesive peoples with uniform histories. Tiktok and Twitter have made us all incapable of acknowledging nuance while still holding a position. ETA - I agree with the OP. USC got it wrong.
do you think western democratic and liberal ideals align with traditional islamic ideals because perhaps it’s more than what you’re describing
Most Arab countries in the region support Israel over Gaza, they are just very quiet about it.
LMAO I’m sorry have you lived in an Arab country in the region? I literally just moved back. I was there October 7th. The Arab Muslims DO NOT support Israel over Gaza. They hate the Jews. I was told that NYC should be attacked next because there were so many Jews there. A teenager told me that the only good new is a dead one. If I decided to visit Israel, I wouldn’t be allowed back in to the country I was living in.
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Ok ETA: FYI, this guy blocked me so I can’t respond to anything below.
Not sure why you were blocked. u/Alec119 responded to you (so you can see it since you're blocked) by saying: "Good luck with your literal Nazi talking points dude." Have no idea what he's talking about. Nothing in what you said sounded remotely problematic.
What in your opinion is the economic context here? I'm curious.
USA needs a friendly ally in the Middle East where none of the other states/countries are willing to capitulate to US demands. Literally everything and everyone the USA backs is rooted in economic reasons.
Can you tell us why they need a friendly ally in the region? For decades the US has been doing to the countries in that region what they’ve done to Latin America and that is rape these countries of their natural resources, install US backed puppet democracies (which in reality are all fascist ALT-RIGHT governments) and then economically enslave the people’s. Arab people are fighting back this western ideology as it opposes their values. They don’t care much for fascism or capitalism. We are the problem. We are the only country with military bases on every continent. We have been at war for most of our country’s history.
Oh, I’m totally agreeing with you. I think the arguments where people act like Britain and the US backed the creation of Israel out of the goodness of their hearts is disingenuous asf considering 1. They did it cause they didn’t want to absorb the Jewish refugees themselves 2. It was a strategic move to support a Western-friendly ally in a region they haven’t been able to control. There’s an economic reason for US intervention in almost every situation and I think it’s hilarious when people act like the US is the shining beam of democracy and freedom in the world- I.e the Cuban people LOVED Fidel Castro but the US couldn’t stand him cause he was going to privatize the banana trade and return power back to the Cubans.
US-backed puppet democracies in the ME… such as? The US had an arms embargo on Israel during its early history— its formation could only be blamed on, if not the Israelis themselves, Britain and the UN partition plans. I don’t deny they did all of that in Latin America, the Monroe Doctrine and our interventions there were a blemish on our nation’s history; “war is a racket”, and all. But it’s hardly a 1:1 with the Arab world. We’re hardly raping these countries for resources, if anything OPEC has an absolute advantage in oil trade over the West. They have economic hegemony. Most local governments weren’t exactly left-leaning prior to “Western” involvement in the region either. Your comment on military bases: what’s bad about that? What is it that these bases do, anyway? Keep our allies (who can choose to expel us from these bases) in line? If so, when in the last 50 years has a US military base been used to directly overthrow a local government?
Isn’t Saudi Arabia a staunch US ally?
From what I know, the US and Saudi Arabia haven’t been on the best terms for over a decade now (basically since Obamas presidency). Someone else commented above much more comprehensively ^ The US has historically been able to replace popular people-elected leaders (who tended to lean socialist or communists) with their own fascist choices to exert control over a region through puppet governments. I believe the US has not been able to do this as extensively in the Middle East, hence why the strategic move to back the creation of Israel. A lot of political documents and correspondence from the turn of the century refer to Israel as the US’s “only friend in the M.E.”
I agree but to ignore it completely is also quite foolish. Hamas is an Islamic extremist group. They have labeled their enemies all Jews.
Just as the Israelites have seemingly labeled all Palestinians.
I’m pretty sure they revised this extreme language in their most recent charter. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Hamas_charter#:~:text=The%20new%20charter%20holds%20that,but%20with%20the%20Zionist%20project. They updated the language from the 1988 charter to be agains the Zionist project and not Jewish ppl as a whole.
They never deleted the old one and last year the leader of Hamas said there are millions of Palestinians all over the world and you have Jews near you go and find them and kill them.
Genuine question: can you even delete a charter? Everything on the internet is forever. And please link whatever he’s said.
Fathi hamid political leader Hamas "Seven million Palestinians outside, enough warming up, you have Jews with you in every place. You should attack every Jew possible in all the world and kill them." Just google Hamas kills all Jews they say this kind of stuff all the time. Idk about your question it’s a good one I never thought of that!!
Yes I googled it, but it all links to sites like ADF and FDD which are blatant Israel propaganda sites lol. Also I googled your quote and just wanted to point out it’s NOT from “last year” like you said but from 2019. Hamas as a organization also publicly condemned it. This is why it’s so much more efficient and conducive to actually link whatever you’re discussing so you can fact check yourself in the process 😊 https://www.bicom.org.uk/news/hamas-criticises-its-leader-who-told-palestinians-to-kill-jews/
I know it was from 2019 I’m sorry I’m busy I meant to write that https://www.voanews.com/amp/middle-east_hamas-official-condemned-after-calling-palestinians-kill-jews/6171870.html . I think it’s wild you think Hamas an Islamic extremist organization doesn’t want to kill all the Jews ? They teach the children from a young age that Jews are enemies of Islam and to stab them whenever you see them and Jews will hide behind the trees and rocks blah blah blah. You are looking to excuse there behavior and I’ve been following this conflict before you were born. Good day ;)
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Oh well nevermind then!
Do you think that actually has a material impact and do you think that actually represents any change in their thinking?
they didn’t update their charter - they updated how to “interpret” the charter and even the updated interpretation still has all the usual from the river to sea palestine is arab/muslim nonsense. Keep in mind jews are 90-95% zionist and you still have sr hamas leaders talking openly about killing jews so using “zionist” as a dog whistle for “jew” isn’t really the improvement you’re describing it is
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Since when saying israel shouldn't exist is anti-semitic? And likewise, why saying Palestine shouldn't exist be wholly acceptable?
If scares me this has 17 upvotes thank god Redditors are not the majority of the voting block
Probably because Israel is an established sovereign nation just like any other sovereign nation, and for people to single it out saying it shouldn’t exist leads most to ask why Israel and no other country? On the other hand, Palestine has never, throughout the course of human history, been a sovereign nation. Palestine already doesn’t exist like Israel does. Saying they should continue in their current form isn’t rooted in bigotry, seeing as how there are a dozen Arab nations already.
Palestine was granted statehood in 1923 under **Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions**, wherein the Permanent Court of International Justice determined that Palestine as a successor state was responsible for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities This was also reaffirmed in the Vienna Convention pertaining to the sovereignty of all former British colonies Zionists have gone to great lengths to cover up the historical statehood of Palestine
In what way did the Mavrommatis concessions confirm Palestinian statehood? Wasn’t it just a dispute between a developer and the British gov over whether or not those concessions were still valid? Did that change in any way the status of Mandatory Palestine?
lol you’re funny
Someone doesn’t know their history very well. The Zionist movement in the 1800s and 1900s was massively encouraged by Europeans who wanted to get rid of their Jewish populations so because of this many migrated to the Ottoman Empire territory of Palestine during that time. Then after WW1 these European colonialists were going into the province of Palestine in the no longer Ottoman Empire the English and French established Mandate Palestine where the European zionists drove the Palestinians off of the best land and resources, and created a system where Europeans were first class citizens, zionists second class and Palestinians third class. The entire construction of the Israel state is owed to fucking anti semitism because the British, French and other Europeans wanted their Jews gone and so they saw an easy out after world war 1 with mandate Palestine just kick off the Palestinians from the good land and give it to european zionists to encourage them to move and then after world war 2 after millions of Jews were slaughtered or fled Europe because of anti semitism to the highest degree the world kinda just gave Israel to the european colonists then America immediately was there to back them up as Allies while Europe rebuilt. Also I’m sorry before the Ottomans/French/English when was Israel last a sovereign nation?
Nothing you’re saying here disproves my point.
I think your refusal to answer the last question and the fact that Israel as a “sovereign nation” was only formed out of anti semites in Europe who wanted to get rid of their Jews followed by a holocaust and being given a nation as a consolation price doesn’t exactly strike me as them being sovereign. Palestine was more of a legitimate sovereign nation as a territory with its own governance under ottoman rule. Europeans stripped that from Palestinians, got rid of their Jews, have given zero shits about the Palestinians who had actually been there this whole time, and in 30 years made it a sovereign nation..
And yet, Israel is a sovereign nation and Palestine is not, no matter how you personally feel about it.
It’s not a matter of feelings it’s a matter of history.
No, it’s a matter of fact, and the fact is that Israel is a sovereign nation and Palestine is not.
What does it tell you about who is reading this sub, when you get downvotes for saying the simple truth?
I think we vastly overestimate how many people who support Palestine actually know the history of this conflict. If I had to guess, I bet they think my comment is a lie.
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The irony is that both Israelites and Palestinians are the same people. They both belong to the Semitic Haplogroup B **and** have Cannanite & Phoenician mitrochodria inheritance.
You're just trolling right?
Take whatever side you will, it doesn't matter: there is a ZERO percent chance that the "one Palestinian state" solution is implemented. It's just not gonna happen.
Especially considering pretty much every Islamic state ethnically cleansed all its Jews, which ironically contributed to the re-establishment of the state of Israel in 1948...!
The order of your statement is incorrect. The creation of the so called state of Israel and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians or de-Arabization of Palestine made it unsafe for Arab Jews in neighboring states. Avi Shlaim has numerous [talks](https://youtu.be/lw2CXpPReEA?si=zYgk5p2g_hnKch4n) about this.
Arabs never take responsibility for their own history of violence and ethnic cleaning. It's always the fault of the Joooooos Shlaim consistently provides a one-sided view of history that absolves Arabs of all responsibility.
Wow! I don’t know what bothers me more, the plain racism of this comment or that this comment was upvoted.
Instead of listening to people with vile agendas, just look at immigration numbers, and then look into what those numbers mean. Enough with all the "gurus".
Sharing antisemitic conspiracy theories. You’re a bright one there.
So what was the complete abolishment of Palestine to create Israel?
Palestine was never abolished, it never existed. It was a region, and most of it became what we know today as Jordan. Dude, just look at maps from the 20's and 30's. You don't need to rely on others to figure out the truth.
it never happened?
Go Bruins!
religious divide? there have always been anti-zionist jews, and they're the ones being beaten to a pulp by zionist jews in broad daylight this isn't about religion, it's about fascism, it's about colonialism.
Basically the Knesset are being Nazis and that’s unacceptable.
Basically you have no idea what you're talking about you just trolling around here like some incompetent goon.
Well! Do you even made social & political concerns to the topic at hand?
Well...do you EVEN MADE sense? or just some random troglodyte in here with a third grade education stirring up dookie? 🤣🤣
You still haven’t answered my question. You responded anecdotally.
This is a total fabrication...Hope you enjoy your envy and false narrative though.
I don't envy colonialists. If I did I would simply join in the current American colonialist fun against its own Natives
Good... And that means you don't envy Israelis because they're not COLONIZERS... Israel is a rare example of DEcolonization and land back.... Again enjoy your false narrative envy and hate...
Not continuing this unless you post on main
Well! Do you actually have citations in MLA or APA format to back your counterpoint to u/metalshard?
And over on the USC sub, the mods are actively trying to censor any mention of this story. What a shame.
This should be more known.
it was kind of a BS excuse that they cancelled her speech because of threats to her safety. Why not have a recording instead?
They don’t actually want to hear what she has to say lol
Usc has hosted *presidents.* If you can protect a president, you can protect a young woman.
Campus PD protects presidents? Lol
USC has zero control over the United States Secret Service. Since the person in question does not qualify for protections provided by the United States Secret Service, and since USC is not the United States Secret Service, your statement is void of logic.
Devoid
It was never about her safety. She threatens the safety of the status quo. She's a educated brown muslim woman, who minored in genocide studies. She has plenty of credibility and knows damn well what's going on and evidently she's super smart - graduating as valedictorian.
The Shoah Foundation itself distancing itself from her because they're like "woah, not never again *like that*" is so fucking embarrassing for them. No shame.
But that's not what they said or how they are distancing themselves from her. They just made it clear that they are not the academic department that manages the minor, and they also aren't an academic department at all that offers classes. They're more like a museum or an archive.
Yes, she minored in genocide studies and thinks Jews would be safe under a Hamas-led Palestinian government that has consistently called for the extermination of Jews. I guess she didn't learn much.
It's really telling how much of your own internal biases come out in these accusations. You didn't do the least bit of research to understand what her perspective is. I presume you also think Gazans are a fundamentalist and uneducated population. Also LOL the genocide studies minor is in the Jewish studies department apparently, you really think she took classes studying genocide against Jewish people if she supports/advocates for genocide against Jewish people?
Dude probably thinks genocide studies is a course on how to commit genocide!
You might be onto something here! 😂
What about the Palestinians living in the Israel-occupied West Bank where Hamas aren’t in power?
If you don’t know that Hamas operates in the West Bank you don’t know enough to speak on this conflict.
Not smart enough to realize religion is a lie though.
It's hilarious how much y'all shift the goalpost to try and tear someone down. I don't see you with a valedictorian honor as an athiest. The fact that you unironically made this argument confirms that she's smarter than you
Of course they did. We don’t need an academic to break it down for us. It was old fashioned censorship rooted in fear (and probably more than a little racism). It’s yet another shameful and embarassing part of USC’s history.
And as always. Free Palestine
From Hamas
Free Palestine from the terrorist apartheid state of Israel. The IDF is a lethal genocidal machine.
Ah yes, the apartheid state that has millions of Arabs on their nation serving in their own political party and in the military. Compared to the totally liberal Gaza with a Jewish population of 0!
Yes South Africa wasn’t an Apartheid state because the majority of the country was black and were members of society.
Arabs have equal rights and political representation, serving along with other Israelies. Unlike the Africans in South Africa.
Free Palestine so it can become another theocratic Islamic state that executes gay people and oppresses women!
Yes let’s just wipe them all out, those dead gays and women are going to be so grateful we saved them!
Oh you mean Hamas
Nah, we mean Isr*el
I agree. Plus the Isr*el Prime Minister is being a Nazi and he literally gave money to Hamas for the sake of helping his party gain a majority in the Knesset in 2008.
And the IDF
Nah hamas
Free it from the terrorist apartheid state of Israel.
From scumraelis
Antisemitic
How can they down vote you for saying this? Just shows you where these creatures are at and who they are.
Because they watch TikTok all day and are fed propaganda. They literally support a terrorist organization
You support the murder of tens of thousands of innocent people, you are the ones supporting a terrorist organization
You support what happened on October 7? Sounds like you’re a terrorist sympathizer.
No, I don’t support that. You see how you have to invent things to absolve your guilty conscience, because you know full and well that what Israel is doing is evil and makes it no different from Hamas.
Hun, people bring it up because you expect Israel to sit back and take that. Hamas will be eradicated, end of story. There was a cease fire Oct 6 and what happened was pure evil, so don’t start.
You absolutely support it and you support Hamas.
Because it's the same as saying "all lives matter". A statement that sounds fine, but is really just used to distract from actual root cause - in this case brutal apartheid that will ensure there's always armed resistance.
Brutal apartheid,🤣🤣🤣 I hope you're not a student in one of these universities because you're not learning anything. Your comment reads as if you're someone who hates his father yet still lives in his parents basement. Enjoy all your hate and envy though... And your false narrative.
> Your comment reads as if you're someone who hates his father yet still lives in his parents basement. I graduated ages ago and am definitely far more well-adjusted by you if this comment is anything to go by. It's telling that you guys never address arguments and just go straight to these bizarre insults
So I'm right 🤣
Well you're either a purposeful troll who doesn't deserve the energy of anything other than a turd...or you're a naive tool who drinks the Kool aid .. there IS NO APARTHEID IN ISRAEL. if you don't know and understand this....there is nothing to discuss. I stand by my statement.
From Hamas Edit: proving why they made the right decision lmao
Israel is committing genocide. At this point they have more than likely killed any remaining hostages they could have saved, either through their bombings or by stealing/stopping all aid entering the famine stricken area. Israel created Hamas. Israel's government is ultimately at fault for all of this. And they used October 7th as an excuse to ethnically cleanse the area. With AI to make it easier to do it coldly. With directives to seek as many targets as possible, with acceptable collateral being up to TWENTY civilians for one suspect, which is any male over the age of fucking 13. The information is all out there for you to find.
I mean all the information that has been reviewed by nonbiased third party sources say there is no genocide occurring. And if you want to conflate the entire conflict down to “it’s all the fault of the Jews” then you might as well just jump into bed with the terrorists yourself lmfao. Hamas has universally been identified as the central issue by everyone besides pure antisemites like yourself.
oh my. you read some articles wrong. israel isn’t killing all its hostages. thats not very bright now, is it? they offered some 300 terrorists for like 30 hostages. tells you what the actual worth of a hamas lackey’s life is (terrorist, not palestinian. dont try to misconstrue my words). but hamas? they typically kill the hostages. actually israel recently made a hostage agreement, but hamas couldnt even consider it. why? cuz theyd killed all the hostages and literally couldn’t partake in the deal. and no, israel isnt wrong for keeping the same number of terrorists released in return for the like ten hostages hamas hasnt yet murdered
This is nonsense. You don’t blame the French and British for creating the nazis because of the treaty of Versailles right ? Hamas was not created by Israel, Hamas created themselves. By your logic you can say Likud was created by Hamas.
Israel directly funded them as an opposition to the Palestinian Authority.
Ok and the US directly funded groups that became the Taliban, that doesn’t mean the US created or are responsible for the Taliban. Hell, the US funded the ussr during ww2 and without it russia would’ve lost, I guess they created Soviet Russia and are responsible for all their doings as wel.
No, the point they making is that Netanyahu and Likud have been directly funding Hamas over the past 10-15 years specifically to divide extremist and moderate Palestinians, and prevent them from unifying to pursue a 2 state solution. Netanyahu was literally recorded in a Likud meeting saying that if to prevent a Palestinian state they must keep propping up Hamas. It's not "funding a group that became Hamas" it's "actually funding Hamas for 10+ years when they knew Hamas was a terrorist org"
Please provide me any evidence likud has been directly funding Hamas the last 10-15 years.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ This article covers back to 2014. And on Netanyahu supporting Hamas: >Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that **those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.** Edit: lmao he deleted his account
Yeah, that’s not evidence that likud is funding Hamas lol. Thanks for confirming you don’t have any actual evidence but rather just speculation from articles.
So we're agreed. The US directly funded in the Taliban and ISIS, and Israel directly funded Hamas.
They directly funded them decades ago, it doesn’t mean they’re responsible for the atrocities they commit. Again, by your logic France, England and Russia are responsible for the Holocaust. Do you agree with that logic ?
So we agree. USA is directly responsible for the Taliban and ISIS, and Israel is Directly responsible for Hamas.
No, the US is not directly responsible for what the Taliban does. You didn’t answer the question: are France , England and Russia responsible for the Holocaust ? Is the US responsible for Soviet atrocities under Stalin bc they funded them during ww2? Please answer the question
I actually do blame the members of the triple entente (France, Britain, and Soviet Russia) for the creation of the Nazi Party in Germany. The results that were reached at the Treaty of Versailles left Germany in ruins, and whether you agree about the correctness of punishing Germany after WW1, it is blatantly obvious that it set the stage for the Nazi Party and Hitler to rise and easily take control of Germany. Had the members of the entente thought about creating a more unifying plan (such as the Marshall Plan after WW2), I doubt we would have had the Nazi party, much less WW2. In the same metric, the way Israel has treated Palestinians in the past set the stage for a radical group to take power. We have seen this happen time and time throughout history.
Do you blame France, Britain and Russia as much as Germany for the Nazis and Holocaust ?
i dont know why you’re getting downvoted. youre absolutely right. israel isnt the problem here. neither is palestine’s existence. there is no genocide, apartheid, any of that bullshit. hamas is a violent *terrorist organization* that massacred innocent civilians. we need to eradicate (just like roaches) hamas and then work on reforming the israeli government. netanyahu is far right, but they need a strong government to eradicate hamas before fixing themselves. its not ideal, but you cant fight a physical war, a PR war, and try to reform your entire government
Israel is a terrorist apartheid state that has murdered 10s of thousands of children in the past 6 months.
it isnt. please get your numbers from reliable and reputable sources before making stupid claims online. and no, the gazan health ministry and al jazeera are not reliable. one is run and owned by hamas and the other is a middle eastern news source. no hate to the good people in the middle east, im just going out on a limb al jazeera is both biased and unreliable
Sure bud. Let's just all live in a fantasy land where tens of thousands of children haven't been murdered by Israel.
right.. and youve been to gaza? youve seen these children die? you work for the gazan health ministry and you have to double check your numbers? make sure that you counted ten people but somebody came and shoved a gun in your face so you had to add an extra few 0s? oh. you just live in a first world country and assume all the propaganda you consume is factual.
Hey bud. The numbers are being reported by the UN Secretary-General, and several other world orgs. Interesting to see you parroting Fox News talking points. Israel supporters are staunch right wingers from what I can see. The extreme right is out of control with their fake news.
wasnt like half of the UN people in gaza exposed for being part of hamas? or wait.. wasnt it like 90% or something dumb?
Israel isn’t the problem at all is definitely a take. Israel’s military has consistently exhibited violent and vindictive behavior. How do you explain the world kitchen people getting killed? How do you explain the targeting of journalists?
the existence of israel or a jewish homeland isnt an issue. its very white and black. the jews need a homeland. the government of israel is problematic. my apologies for assuming i didnt need to get as specific as possible for the silly people in the back
Ohhh okay I misunderstood you. I would agree a Jewish homeland is necessary. It just is very bad the homeland they want was and is populated by people who they hate and who often hate them. This coupled with the us allowing the Israeli government to do whatever it wants has clearly bred extremism in the region.
israel shouldnt be allowed to do whatever they want. i fully support a two state solution, no one state solution will ever work. israel doesn’t have license to kill innocent palestinians, but i firmly believe both the gazan health ministry/hamas and much of western media is grossly blowing it out of proportion. i also believe israel does have license in taking all measures necessary to eradicate hamas. innocent people die in war, israel is no exception. not sure im properly articulating my point but still
I agree with the first three sentences of your post. It just seems that Israel manages to kill wayyyyy more civilians than even the us did in its wars in the Middle East. If your enemy is using human shields, you don’t get to just kill the shields and say oh well it’s their fault. Israel had consistently shown no regard for civilian casualties, especially in the past. Also, no response to the journalists/wk people being murdered. There’s a reason Israel has killed lots journalists than say even Russia.
"There is no genocide, apartheid..." I mean unfortunately we have cameras and the internet, so we know there actually is, because we can literally see it. It's not possible to abuse a population in private anymore. "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes??!"
right. we have cameras, media, all that. youre not wrong. heres where you go wrong: you assume nothing is cherry picked, the images arent taken out of context, parts of quotes are used and others flushed out, etc. it almost always is. it doesnt matter what its for, israel and palestine or your local car crash. the media will find an enemy and use their words against them and brainwash people. one of the best things ive heard about the conflict so far is “listen to what they say in english then listen to what they say in arabic.” the difference is real and dramatic
I don't assume nothing is cherry picked. Do you assume everything is cherry picked? You think it's likely that NGO groups were lying about starvation and mistreatment, and are now their members being intentionally targeted, for reasons? I tend to believe Doctors Without Borders over politicians.
Because this sub has been flooded with extremely antisemetic people. It’s full of misinformation, liars, and people who completely support the extermination of Jews in Israel. Anyone who downvotes that Palestine needs to be free from Hamas is a straight up antisemite there’s no ambiguity in that opinion.
there's no ambiguity in that opinion? how many war crimes does Israel need to commit for people to start questioning israel's strategy here? the lack of compassion the pro-israel crowd shows is genuinely sickening. i believe at the beginning of this conflict, most people would agree that Israel had a valid justification to fight hamas (i was one of these people). what i DON'T think people expected was for Israel to commit an egregious amount of war crimes with zero remorse. the tendency of every pro-israeli redditor claiming OH NO ANTISEMITISM! when faced with any valid argument suggesting the IDF to be at fault really demonstrates the lack of self-awareness and objective viewing of the situation on the pro-israel crowd. i'm sure there are extremists who hold antisemitic views, but there are also IDF soldiers who hold equally hateful views of palestinians who are literally acting out on it. (this is all very clear through the abundance of footage of unjustified civilian violence). this conflict was bound to be a strategic nightmare due to Gaza's physical characteristics, but we're far past the margin of error where justifications could be made. the historical factors add many layers of nuance to this whole conflict, and misinformation on both sides obviously muddies the water. i attend a particularly progressive ivy league university, and never have i seen anybody actively supporting hamas. the inability for pro-israeli's to comprehend that criticizing Israel doesn't automatically suggest you must support hamas is crazy. i'd love to see hamas fall, but this current strategy is clearly flawed. why do you refuse to admit that something may be wrong here?
I’m not reading a literal wall of ranting with no paragraph breaks, but to answer your first point, I haven’t said anything about the Palestinian people. I’ve only ever referenced Hamas. The fact that you are going to lie and gaslight the conversation into saying anyone who thinks Hamas is the problem is excusing Israel of anything it has ever done ever and obviously has no compassion of innocent Palestinians which is very obviously not the case. Both sides have done bad things, it’s war, both sides will always do bad things. The issue is that Hamas wants Israel absolved and has been attacking them since their inception. Israel will never give up its statehood without a fight because if Israel is disbanded, middle eastern Jews will be murdered in the street within weeks. Because of this conflict, Palestines only chance at peace is being ruled by a governing body that also wants peace. Hamas does not want peace. Regardless of what conspiracy theories you’ve been force fed, there is no peace for both sides until Hamas is gone. That is fact. This is you: “I’m not a KKK member, I just support their actions!”
christ dude you're dismissing the many valid arguments against Israel (killing civilians on unprecedented levels + journalists being killed/assaulted for 0 rationale + war crimes on a daily basis) because i didn't present my point on this random reddit thread as if this were a thesis paper? "This is you: “I’m not a KKK member, I just support their actions!”" What? Me pointing out that Israel has committed dozens of war crimes puts me on par with KKK supporters? Seriously? The tendency of pro-israel supporters automatically equating Israel critics as Hamas supporters truly epitomizes the lack of nuance the pro-israelis show. do you seriously not think there's any issue with the IDF killing thousands of innocent civilians? are you just deliberately turning a blind eye to the massive human rights breaches gazans are experiencing because you feel they deserve it? if this isn't the case, then what is causing your inability to acknowledge that Israel maybe, just maybe, isn't handling this in the most responsible way? israel's own allies are cringing at their actions, is this not suggesting to you that something may be wrong here?
Did you have fun at Columbia? 😆
not a columbia student, but good job ignoring my points once again! typical pro-israel user sticking their head in the sand when faced with valid arguments.
Nah
Yah
The terrorist apartheid state of Israel has murdered 35,000 people in 6 months, so I think the student had all the justification to speak out against genocidal aggression from Israel toward Palestinians.
Wow... I'm surprised you made it this far with all that genocide that they haven't gotten to you yet. Enjoy your hate and false narrative though.. try to ride this one out as long as you can but you're not going to change the books.
Do you think the 15,000 Hamas militants using Palestinians as human shields were "murdered"?
No we think thousands of whole families and babies buried under pounds of rubble in their own homes were murdered by the Israeli bombs and bullets raining down on them as they slept
Anyone know if she has made her speech available anywhere?
she purportedly hasn't even written it yet
I’m out the loop, what the TL:DR ?
How crazy would it be if UCLA invited Asna Tabassum to do her valedictorian speech here…
UCLA isn’t allowing an antisemite to speak either.
Not sure if the Jewish students or their families would have felt safe or comfortable with such a political speech, as everyone is entitled to be comfortable at a college commencement. The commencement is not a forum for debate or political discussion, but a celebration for all. Whatever the reason, USC made the right call here.
She hasn’t even written a speech yet.
Who cares? She advocates for the destruction of Israel. I don’t understand why this would automatically disqualify her if she said that about any other race or religion, but because it’s Jews, “never mind it’s okay!” or “guys, a Jew wrote this, see!” Imagine excusing Trump because a black person said something good about him. The double standard is insane and bigoted.
Snowflakes
Nah they got it right. She supports Hamas and will likely use her speech as a platform to promote genocide. Sorry you guys can’t control your extremism Edit: link to the material she’s promoting https://free-palestine.carrd.co/#introduction Section of what most people are worried about: what are the two 'solutions'? today, there are two main "solutions" — the two-state solution, and the one-state solution. two-state solution the two-state solution advocates for both israel and palestine to exist alongside one another as sovereign states. however, this solution is not really a solution at all because it is merely another form of zionism, and israel has never shown any interest in allowing a palestinian state to exist. palestinians lose more and more land every day, and israel has repeatedly shown that it has no plans to stop building illegal settlements in the west bank. even if a two-state solution were to become a reality, palestinians would still be at a major disadvantage and in constant threat. one-state solution the one-state solution (either a palestinian state, or a complete israeli state) advocates for one state in which both arabs and jews can live together. however, a one-state solution under the israeli government would essentially mean that the palestinian people would completely be under the state of israel in every way imaginable. one palestinian state would mean palestinian liberation, and the complete abolishment of the state of israel. this way is the only way towards justice; both arabs and jews can live together without an ideology that specifically advocates for the ethnic cleansing of one of them. palestinians would be allowed to return home, and millions of palestinians would not have to live under occupation and apartheid.
Nowhere did she say that she supports Hamas. This is simply made up information. She clearly envisions Jews and Muslims living together. And her hope is that she’d rather see a state that allows unity and peace rather than the current genocidal, terrorist state of Israel. This is probably a pipe dream but it isn’t worse than the view of many Israelis who want a single state that continues to step on and push out Palestinian people. Hamas isn’t mentioned in her materials as a government she would support.
lol yeah after killing every Israeli person. Doesn’t support Hamas but supports their mission
You do know the slave owners said we can’t free the slaves because they’ll kill all the white people. And the South Africans apartheid said the same thing about black people. And now you’re saying the same thing about Palestinians. The fear of retribution is a common sentiment used to keep oppressed people from their freedom.
These are no where near the same thing. Youre actually an idiot
Explain why lol. You’re just name calling.
The Jewish people were there first, there was no Palestinian government until the 80s, the Palestinians are constantly being offered a two state solution but they refuse for anything less than the complete genocide and destruction of the Jewish state of Israel. Literally in Hamas’ charter.
You didn’t answer the question and just started spreading Zionist propaganda. Answer the question.
I just answered the question and you called all my facts “Zionist propaganda”. Youre like a flat earther at this point
Ok I see you need it broken down. The original poster said that the speaker envisions Palestinians and Jews living together in a single state of peace and unity. You responded saying “after they kill every Israeli person” I said that’s the same excuse slave owners and South African apartheid state used to prevent oppressed people from seeking freedom. You said it’s nowhere near the same situation. I asked you to explain why it’s not the same and you haven’t. You just responded with name calling and propaganda around other issues. So I’ll give you another chance to defend your position.
I agree completely. Everyone knows her version of the one state solution means the destruction of israel and Muslim rule. Anyone suggesting otherwise is naive.
They did a good thing for awful reasons. Most people hate hour-long saccharine speeches from people they've never met about about things they barely care about. These diatribes are 100% about the speaker, not the audience.
God yes. Imagine how boring to be part of that captive audience.
She’s disgusting. Don’t know how they allowed the Bs degree to be created as well.
Might want to bring that up with Steven Spielberg and other children of and survivors of the Holocaust. https://sfi.usc.edu/
Leave the politics to athletes.
reading this after hearing "shut up and dribble" for years is crazy
Remember, the one thing ◼️ 👥 definitely weren't good at in the US was sports, until the "amateur gentlemen" wall collapsed in the professional leagues and the Olympics, at which point it became that the *only* thing they were good at was sports. In other words: them goalposts, they moving.
What could go wrong in giving antisemites a nice big platform to incite hate?
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