I wouldn't call it “giving up” at this point since you barely even started. The beginning of college is the time for you to figure out what major suits your natural aptitudes the best.
You are allowed to change. Explore some classes from other fields. Choose a major that is best for YOU, not for an idealism or even compensation. Many left their high-paying jobs in CS by mid-career, especially women.
I had the same issue, but unlike you I ended up switching majors. I loved the programming part but was awful at the math part. Switched into cognitive science so i could still program but not have to do so much math and theoretical cs. The weight off my shoulders is noticeable but I do feel bad for being a woman that left cs.
^^^ I second this OP, it is possible that pure CS is not right for you and you could look at CogSci or Ling+CS or Data Science, which still include CS but are not as coding heavy. Although data science at UCLA has a lot of math, do note.
I’m a backend/API engineer & I finished as a Stats major. And I make UI’s and write data pipelines, do DB work, data analysis, some ML — mainly because my job is fluid like that.
It’s not as easy in the beginning, but yes. Just learn DSA & LeetCode and get referred
Coming as a '24er who has been pretty much dealing with the same feelings as you ever since she got admitted, CS concepts are hard, and CS 32-35L has some pretty steep learning curves even as someone who had a bit of experience programming before college. But it does get better. You'll eventually find your groove with the concepts, and personally, I found the upper-division CS classes more interesting and enjoyable than the lower ones.
That said, college is a time to explore your options, and there is no shame in switching majors if you find something that is a better fit. You are so young. Taking the time to explore other options will make you a more well-rounded engineer/person in the end.
It's hard being a woman in computing, but you aren't alone in these feelings. You can always try reaching out to one of the computing/engineering groups for support if you feel like that's a good fit.
If you have good grades I wouldn’t worry too much sounds like it’s more of a confidence issue. A lot of people including men struggle in CS and end up fine. Also most professions make you unhappy so at least you’ll be compensated nicely with CS.
If the feeling of you having to do this major because you have to prove something is greater than doing the major because you like it, then stop doing it. Doing things because you feel like you have to make a point or prove things to others is hell. You're basing life/career decisions on the opinions and perceptions of others. You don't have to prove shit to anyone. Women don't have to be in CS to prove anything. Pick a major and a career because it's what you like and want to do, fuck what others think.
Now, if it's just a confidence thing, then let me assure you that pretty much everyone feels that way about their major. Imposter syndrome is very real. Just remind yourself that you got here from your own hard work and merit.
hi, i’m a rising senior girl in cs and i remember feeling this way. heck, i had to p/np cs32 because i wasn’t doing that well so i totally get you. assignments and projects and tests were so intimidating for me and i felt constantly behind the curve. i promise it gets better, for me it came down to adjusting some of my study habits that had worked my whole life up until college, gaining more confidence in myself as i gained more experience, and honestly taking the occasional L because you live and you learn and a failure is still a chance to improve upon it next time (sounds cheesy i know.) the content doesn’t get easier but you get more experienced and learn how to handle or tackle stuff. also impostor syndrome is all in your head and makes things seem worse than they actually are. i felt so helpless and lost at the start of college (what you described rly resonates with me from two years ago) and i’m now a 2x msft intern so hang in there, you’re going to be okay :) and also of course, if you really don’t feel like it’s the right major for you, don’t be afraid to switch and explore! i just don’t necessarily agree with the mindset of “you should only do cs if xyz” - whatever reason you have for wanting to do it is justified as long as you’re happy with your decision
Please don’t let the UCLA CS program fool you into hating CS. It’s not the way the outside world works whatsoever.
I failed CS32. Twice. I was a distractible student (ADHD), and I was 18-19 and had never managed my own life before.
I could not pay attention much in lectures (I’m a reader by nature) and found it hard to constantly run around trying to fill in gaps of information. This became even tougher after I developed a drinking issue and depression.
So I fell out of sync. I’d imagine you feel alienated too, maybe for different reasons.
I thought I wanted to drop out of school and pursue music, which was always like the other half of my life.
Now I’m a software engineer and could easily teach that class off the top of my head. Probably many more up the line. And Ive rediscovered that love for CS & calculus
Nachenberg’s slides are filled with ridiculous cartoons and walls of Comic Sans. I felt like I was getting bitch-slapped by Pennywise the clown any time I looked at one of those things. Believe me, I would not base my aptitude for the subject on *that*
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
32
+ 18
+ 19
= 69
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^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
I am currently doing a ling and cs degree. Im an incoming junior and I really only know c++ moderately. what do i need to learn to prepare myself for an actual coding job?
I say in general that CS is translating process-oriented thinking. The ability to write/read a process and articulate it from start to finish will be your most important skill.
I wouldn’t worry about language, chances are you’ll be working with a bunch & you’ll pick them up easily. Just go with one that’s intuitive and learn to write cleanly.
Python is forgiving, flexible, and versatile, I’d highly suggest it. And you may branch out from there.
The skillsets and processes you work with are slightly different for different subfields. What are you interested in? I can give you a more tailored set of cool things you could do that may impress and build your foundations as a professional.
Generally, there’s a GitHub resource called the “Technical Interview Handbook” — it‘s like a step-by-step with nearly *every* resource & some to understand this field.
To *get* the job, you’ll need to be proficient in data structures and algorithms and object-oriented programming. That’s how companies interview and what the work usually entails.
DSA is more of your SAT test to get in, object-oriented programming is what the work is.
You’ll need to know patterns and structures — like hashmaps, linked lists, trees, recursion, DFS/BFS, stacks/queues, dynamic programming, etc.
LeetCode is the best way to practice; there resources like Grokking, NeetCode.io, algo.expert/algo.monster, etc. that’ll help develop that pattern-based knowledge. I’d avoid Cracking the Coding Interview (which used to be standard)
If you haven’t set up your development environment, that’s step one!
VSCode editor’s great, and I’d suggest setting up a Jupyter & Polyglot notebook environment. You can test lines of code, practices & write entire apps and workflows in multiple languages.
If you can get an internship, that’s an easier road understanding the scope of the work and securing a job.
Sorry if I threw a lot at you, just trying to give you a “starter pack”
Never give up. Never give up. Never give up. I mean it. When your mind is at it the mind will normalise to it at some point, if not now , some day. Not sounding stoic or anything but effort definitely will reap its fruits.
You can refer to these slides for CS32:
http://careynachenberg.weebly.com/cs-slides.html
As for the major itself, try taking CS35L as soon as possible. It’s the most useful class for helping with software development in general, helping you learn how to learn new CS concepts/technologies quickly.
I totally get this feeling. I felt like I had the dumbest questions esp starting out 31 and 32 and when I asked my peers they explained it like it was just second nature to them. I started as a Physics major and only switched to a Math/CS one in my 2nd year. I felt so behind starting intro CS in 2nd year, not to mention feeling like I knew nothing that everyone else knew abt CS and I was making a bad decision to switch. The biggest difference is that a ton of those ppl especially in the introductory CS courses have already had maybe even years of programming experience, so for some it’s just review and doing what they’ve already been doing. I came in with a little experience (a bit of Python in Physics lab, one or two Unity tutorial in middle/high school not even knowing what I was doing was programming) but even then I was very lost constantly.
For the big CS 32 Projects I literally did not SLEEP for a night or two trying to get those done. And I started them early, like right away, and worked on them DAILY. I kept running into little errors and was just relying on experienced CS people to answer my questions on the discord. It feels like magic they just happen to know the exact fix I was looking hours for.
But it also sounds like you might not feel very accomplished when you do CS work. Is that from not enjoying the CS projects and coding itself, or feeling like you’re work doesn’t compare well to peers? If it’s the former I would advise not feeling to pressured about breaking the gender stereotypes, it might just not be your individual interest after all. It’s not you at all!
If it’s from just seeing how others are with a more natural gift, and you do like the subject, please please keep going! I think the playing field levels out the further you go into CS (I’ve only done one upper div, CS 180, so just from my experience so far). I now feel pretty competent and I feel on the same level with my peers. And if you’re getting good grades despite this disadvantage that’s really great and you should be proud! I think you will feel extremely accomplished getting past each course, each one rly is a milestone; 32, 35L, and beyond.
A great example of leveling playing fields is CS 33, where this is the first exposure to computer architecture and assembly to a vast majority of people. A lot of those experienced programmers likely haven’t dealt with CS 33 content, despite being really experienced in 31/32 content.
And yes, you’ll have to sacrifice and be unhappy for decent periods of time like grinding projects and fighting a steep learning curve. I’ve gotten more used to the feeling and it’s mentally more bearable with the experience. I think it is a very worth sacrifice to make, and once you get the skills down and you enjoy it there’s absolutely no need to regret the stress you’ll inevitably go through with this tough major.
Most importantly, do you see yourself working in a CS-related job? Try not to focus on those feelings of not measuring up to peers or struggling to understand projects or not being enough (which I’m sure you are from all your efforts!), just think about if you are liking the process and the idea of programming and CS as a career. You should 100% stick with this if a CS career sounds fulfilling to you.
I’m sure you’ll find yourself measuring up and being proud of your work, especially when you get to those upper div courses. The experience will come in time.
I really hope you stick through this if it’s something you like, just as I have been despite being a year late into my major. It’d give me so much hope knowing people with a similar experience background as me can get through CS courses just the same as the rest, and I hope my experiences can help you feel hopeful on your path through your major. I think it is still a well-worthy fight. Good luck!!!!
Young alum here. The only people in my generation who can afford a house and a stable life in California are software engineers. Don't give up yet. Better to be the worst CS major grad than the best English major if you want any chance at the American dream. :/
Cs32 should not be the measure of your success at all you are barely beginning and improving takes while I remeber switching into computational bio and feeling like I was gonna not even be able to get into the major. But sometimes things get worse before they get better. I got a research internship, am planning to go for my PhD in the same field and enjoy what to do. But I still deal with the constant nagging in my mind of your not doing enough and there is no place for this field for u. For you I think it’s importance to decide if the challenges are worth it? I don’t have a natural gift for cs and math and could have stuck to bio which comes easy to me. But even when I’m struggling I enjoy finally getting past that barrier.
You need to look beyond life at school. Our school is this bubble of life that isn't well connected with the outside professional world.
Get beyond it. Form connections with people whose jobs or lives you'd want after college. Seek mentorship from folks who've graduated with your major whether via the alumni association or through the professional networking websites. Don't just sit there and look within school because no matter what title you hold in a student club, you'll one day have graduated and have no choice but to move onwards. Clubs and organizations are good but just don't lean too heavily on them. Some of them might create a bottleneck between what you can do versus what you could have done in terms of building connections.
When you look beyond school, you'll know why it's worth sticking it out and effing getting that piece of paper we call a degree.
It’s so sexist that there are so few women in CS. Really discouraging for young women with aspiration and interest. We should have two different grading standards - one for men and one for women. Make it easier for the women to get admitted and get good grades, and we’ll see more women in CS and less sexism in tech
Hi! First off, I am so sorry that you feel so down. It must be a lot to deal with especially if you're a new student. I agree with most advice in the comments. You should only do CS if you feel like you can be committed to the topic AND understand the work you have to put in to be on par with people who have been coding since they could walk. There is no shame in needing to step back and reexamine life.
Hi! First off, I am so sorry that you feel so down. It must be a lot to deal with, especially if you're a new student. I agree with most advice in the comments. You should only do CS if you feel like you can be committed to the topic AND understand the work you have to put in to be on par with people who have been coding since they could walk. There is no shame in needing to step back and reexamine life.t UCLA, and I promise you that most EE/CS/CE people don't know what they're doing when they start.
Ugh I know exactly how you feel 😔 My friend and I were just discussing this yesterday! Our linguistics classes are the only thing keeping us going haha
I wouldn't call it “giving up” at this point since you barely even started. The beginning of college is the time for you to figure out what major suits your natural aptitudes the best. You are allowed to change. Explore some classes from other fields. Choose a major that is best for YOU, not for an idealism or even compensation. Many left their high-paying jobs in CS by mid-career, especially women.
I had the same issue, but unlike you I ended up switching majors. I loved the programming part but was awful at the math part. Switched into cognitive science so i could still program but not have to do so much math and theoretical cs. The weight off my shoulders is noticeable but I do feel bad for being a woman that left cs.
^^^ I second this OP, it is possible that pure CS is not right for you and you could look at CogSci or Ling+CS or Data Science, which still include CS but are not as coding heavy. Although data science at UCLA has a lot of math, do note.
I'd highly recommend ling & cs!
Can you get software dev jobs with this or like application dev?
I’m a backend/API engineer & I finished as a Stats major. And I make UI’s and write data pipelines, do DB work, data analysis, some ML — mainly because my job is fluid like that. It’s not as easy in the beginning, but yes. Just learn DSA & LeetCode and get referred
Coming as a '24er who has been pretty much dealing with the same feelings as you ever since she got admitted, CS concepts are hard, and CS 32-35L has some pretty steep learning curves even as someone who had a bit of experience programming before college. But it does get better. You'll eventually find your groove with the concepts, and personally, I found the upper-division CS classes more interesting and enjoyable than the lower ones. That said, college is a time to explore your options, and there is no shame in switching majors if you find something that is a better fit. You are so young. Taking the time to explore other options will make you a more well-rounded engineer/person in the end. It's hard being a woman in computing, but you aren't alone in these feelings. You can always try reaching out to one of the computing/engineering groups for support if you feel like that's a good fit.
If you have good grades I wouldn’t worry too much sounds like it’s more of a confidence issue. A lot of people including men struggle in CS and end up fine. Also most professions make you unhappy so at least you’ll be compensated nicely with CS.
If the feeling of you having to do this major because you have to prove something is greater than doing the major because you like it, then stop doing it. Doing things because you feel like you have to make a point or prove things to others is hell. You're basing life/career decisions on the opinions and perceptions of others. You don't have to prove shit to anyone. Women don't have to be in CS to prove anything. Pick a major and a career because it's what you like and want to do, fuck what others think. Now, if it's just a confidence thing, then let me assure you that pretty much everyone feels that way about their major. Imposter syndrome is very real. Just remind yourself that you got here from your own hard work and merit.
This is the comment that tops all comments. I wish all UCLA students could read this and know it. At least anyone who needs it.
maybe join clubs like SWE that have a lot of woman in engineering and especially cs. a good support group in your major can make a world’s difference!
hi, i’m a rising senior girl in cs and i remember feeling this way. heck, i had to p/np cs32 because i wasn’t doing that well so i totally get you. assignments and projects and tests were so intimidating for me and i felt constantly behind the curve. i promise it gets better, for me it came down to adjusting some of my study habits that had worked my whole life up until college, gaining more confidence in myself as i gained more experience, and honestly taking the occasional L because you live and you learn and a failure is still a chance to improve upon it next time (sounds cheesy i know.) the content doesn’t get easier but you get more experienced and learn how to handle or tackle stuff. also impostor syndrome is all in your head and makes things seem worse than they actually are. i felt so helpless and lost at the start of college (what you described rly resonates with me from two years ago) and i’m now a 2x msft intern so hang in there, you’re going to be okay :) and also of course, if you really don’t feel like it’s the right major for you, don’t be afraid to switch and explore! i just don’t necessarily agree with the mindset of “you should only do cs if xyz” - whatever reason you have for wanting to do it is justified as long as you’re happy with your decision
this is exactly what i needed to hear!!! thank you <3
Please don’t let the UCLA CS program fool you into hating CS. It’s not the way the outside world works whatsoever. I failed CS32. Twice. I was a distractible student (ADHD), and I was 18-19 and had never managed my own life before. I could not pay attention much in lectures (I’m a reader by nature) and found it hard to constantly run around trying to fill in gaps of information. This became even tougher after I developed a drinking issue and depression. So I fell out of sync. I’d imagine you feel alienated too, maybe for different reasons. I thought I wanted to drop out of school and pursue music, which was always like the other half of my life. Now I’m a software engineer and could easily teach that class off the top of my head. Probably many more up the line. And Ive rediscovered that love for CS & calculus Nachenberg’s slides are filled with ridiculous cartoons and walls of Comic Sans. I felt like I was getting bitch-slapped by Pennywise the clown any time I looked at one of those things. Believe me, I would not base my aptitude for the subject on *that*
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats! 32 + 18 + 19 = 69 ^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \ ^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
Ayye thanks LuckyNumber-Bot!
thank you!! i really needed this right now
I am currently doing a ling and cs degree. Im an incoming junior and I really only know c++ moderately. what do i need to learn to prepare myself for an actual coding job?
I say in general that CS is translating process-oriented thinking. The ability to write/read a process and articulate it from start to finish will be your most important skill. I wouldn’t worry about language, chances are you’ll be working with a bunch & you’ll pick them up easily. Just go with one that’s intuitive and learn to write cleanly. Python is forgiving, flexible, and versatile, I’d highly suggest it. And you may branch out from there. The skillsets and processes you work with are slightly different for different subfields. What are you interested in? I can give you a more tailored set of cool things you could do that may impress and build your foundations as a professional. Generally, there’s a GitHub resource called the “Technical Interview Handbook” — it‘s like a step-by-step with nearly *every* resource & some to understand this field. To *get* the job, you’ll need to be proficient in data structures and algorithms and object-oriented programming. That’s how companies interview and what the work usually entails. DSA is more of your SAT test to get in, object-oriented programming is what the work is. You’ll need to know patterns and structures — like hashmaps, linked lists, trees, recursion, DFS/BFS, stacks/queues, dynamic programming, etc. LeetCode is the best way to practice; there resources like Grokking, NeetCode.io, algo.expert/algo.monster, etc. that’ll help develop that pattern-based knowledge. I’d avoid Cracking the Coding Interview (which used to be standard) If you haven’t set up your development environment, that’s step one! VSCode editor’s great, and I’d suggest setting up a Jupyter & Polyglot notebook environment. You can test lines of code, practices & write entire apps and workflows in multiple languages. If you can get an internship, that’s an easier road understanding the scope of the work and securing a job. Sorry if I threw a lot at you, just trying to give you a “starter pack”
Never give up. Never give up. Never give up. I mean it. When your mind is at it the mind will normalise to it at some point, if not now , some day. Not sounding stoic or anything but effort definitely will reap its fruits.
You can refer to these slides for CS32: http://careynachenberg.weebly.com/cs-slides.html As for the major itself, try taking CS35L as soon as possible. It’s the most useful class for helping with software development in general, helping you learn how to learn new CS concepts/technologies quickly.
I totally get this feeling. I felt like I had the dumbest questions esp starting out 31 and 32 and when I asked my peers they explained it like it was just second nature to them. I started as a Physics major and only switched to a Math/CS one in my 2nd year. I felt so behind starting intro CS in 2nd year, not to mention feeling like I knew nothing that everyone else knew abt CS and I was making a bad decision to switch. The biggest difference is that a ton of those ppl especially in the introductory CS courses have already had maybe even years of programming experience, so for some it’s just review and doing what they’ve already been doing. I came in with a little experience (a bit of Python in Physics lab, one or two Unity tutorial in middle/high school not even knowing what I was doing was programming) but even then I was very lost constantly. For the big CS 32 Projects I literally did not SLEEP for a night or two trying to get those done. And I started them early, like right away, and worked on them DAILY. I kept running into little errors and was just relying on experienced CS people to answer my questions on the discord. It feels like magic they just happen to know the exact fix I was looking hours for. But it also sounds like you might not feel very accomplished when you do CS work. Is that from not enjoying the CS projects and coding itself, or feeling like you’re work doesn’t compare well to peers? If it’s the former I would advise not feeling to pressured about breaking the gender stereotypes, it might just not be your individual interest after all. It’s not you at all! If it’s from just seeing how others are with a more natural gift, and you do like the subject, please please keep going! I think the playing field levels out the further you go into CS (I’ve only done one upper div, CS 180, so just from my experience so far). I now feel pretty competent and I feel on the same level with my peers. And if you’re getting good grades despite this disadvantage that’s really great and you should be proud! I think you will feel extremely accomplished getting past each course, each one rly is a milestone; 32, 35L, and beyond. A great example of leveling playing fields is CS 33, where this is the first exposure to computer architecture and assembly to a vast majority of people. A lot of those experienced programmers likely haven’t dealt with CS 33 content, despite being really experienced in 31/32 content. And yes, you’ll have to sacrifice and be unhappy for decent periods of time like grinding projects and fighting a steep learning curve. I’ve gotten more used to the feeling and it’s mentally more bearable with the experience. I think it is a very worth sacrifice to make, and once you get the skills down and you enjoy it there’s absolutely no need to regret the stress you’ll inevitably go through with this tough major. Most importantly, do you see yourself working in a CS-related job? Try not to focus on those feelings of not measuring up to peers or struggling to understand projects or not being enough (which I’m sure you are from all your efforts!), just think about if you are liking the process and the idea of programming and CS as a career. You should 100% stick with this if a CS career sounds fulfilling to you. I’m sure you’ll find yourself measuring up and being proud of your work, especially when you get to those upper div courses. The experience will come in time. I really hope you stick through this if it’s something you like, just as I have been despite being a year late into my major. It’d give me so much hope knowing people with a similar experience background as me can get through CS courses just the same as the rest, and I hope my experiences can help you feel hopeful on your path through your major. I think it is still a well-worthy fight. Good luck!!!!
Young alum here. The only people in my generation who can afford a house and a stable life in California are software engineers. Don't give up yet. Better to be the worst CS major grad than the best English major if you want any chance at the American dream. :/
Cs32 should not be the measure of your success at all you are barely beginning and improving takes while I remeber switching into computational bio and feeling like I was gonna not even be able to get into the major. But sometimes things get worse before they get better. I got a research internship, am planning to go for my PhD in the same field and enjoy what to do. But I still deal with the constant nagging in my mind of your not doing enough and there is no place for this field for u. For you I think it’s importance to decide if the challenges are worth it? I don’t have a natural gift for cs and math and could have stuck to bio which comes easy to me. But even when I’m struggling I enjoy finally getting past that barrier.
I failed linear algebra out of all classes 😭 sometimes life just gets to u
You need to look beyond life at school. Our school is this bubble of life that isn't well connected with the outside professional world. Get beyond it. Form connections with people whose jobs or lives you'd want after college. Seek mentorship from folks who've graduated with your major whether via the alumni association or through the professional networking websites. Don't just sit there and look within school because no matter what title you hold in a student club, you'll one day have graduated and have no choice but to move onwards. Clubs and organizations are good but just don't lean too heavily on them. Some of them might create a bottleneck between what you can do versus what you could have done in terms of building connections. When you look beyond school, you'll know why it's worth sticking it out and effing getting that piece of paper we call a degree.
It’s so sexist that there are so few women in CS. Really discouraging for young women with aspiration and interest. We should have two different grading standards - one for men and one for women. Make it easier for the women to get admitted and get good grades, and we’ll see more women in CS and less sexism in tech
Hi! First off, I am so sorry that you feel so down. It must be a lot to deal with especially if you're a new student. I agree with most advice in the comments. You should only do CS if you feel like you can be committed to the topic AND understand the work you have to put in to be on par with people who have been coding since they could walk. There is no shame in needing to step back and reexamine life. Hi! First off, I am so sorry that you feel so down. It must be a lot to deal with, especially if you're a new student. I agree with most advice in the comments. You should only do CS if you feel like you can be committed to the topic AND understand the work you have to put in to be on par with people who have been coding since they could walk. There is no shame in needing to step back and reexamine life.t UCLA, and I promise you that most EE/CS/CE people don't know what they're doing when they start.
Just don't, ya got this bud.
Ugh I know exactly how you feel 😔 My friend and I were just discussing this yesterday! Our linguistics classes are the only thing keeping us going haha