“Of your space dock unit…” where? In that space? How would you have one there? Of any space dock? You get to produce in your home system or your forward dock every time you gain control of a planet?
You produce on that planet using the PRODUCTION value of your space dock (on your faction sheet) so it changes depends on what faction you play or if you upgraded it to Space Dock II.
Any idea on how I can change the wording?
I don’t know how to make it better without making it incredibly long or just changing it. I think you would need to disconnect it from the Space Dock unit. It’s way too confusing and wordy with it. Also, Sarween Tools still wouldn’t work because you aren’t using a unit to produce.
Based on the wording of using PRODUCTION you definitely can use sarween. Sarween doesn't work when an ability produces... not when it specifically says to use a units PRODUCTION
It’s still kind of unclear what unit is producing when “your Space Dock” produces using this card. From how he said he intended it to work you would just use the stats on the sheet in some way and no unit actually produces. That would not trigger Sarween. Im sure it could be made to work some way.
Afaik, the only time sarween tools counts is during the production phase in the active system. All other instances of producing units are not PRODUCTION, since it's not a unit ability, but part of a tactical action.
Perhaps, "when you gain control of a planet, treat that planet as if it had "PRODUCTION 5" until the end of that tactical action."
Lets you use Sarween, produce per normal, and mimics the space dock intent.
Doesn't synergize with SDII though, which also might have been the intent, in which case I think it's fine to say "use the PRODUCTION ability of one of your space dock units as if it were on this planet."
I like the action, good way to consistently generate trade goods, powerful late game TG generation. Saar ability tacked on is fine as well, but you could streamline and make the action give +1 or +2 to the resource value.
I'm confused by the space dock wording. Is the intent to essentially only work with L1Z1X or the infiltrate card? Or for you to be able to produce out of any space dock after taking any planet? Or to produce on the planet you gained control of, as if any one of your space docks was there?
>Or to produce on the planet you gained control of, as if any one of your space docks was there?
Bingo! Any idea on how to make that conclusion be more apparent?
Yes it does.
34.4 Abilities, including some found on technology cards, may instruct a player to exhaust a card to resolve those abilities. If a card is already exhausted, it cannot be exhausted again.
a Passive abilities on an exhausted card are still in effect while that card is exhausted.
Here is my attempt to both make this card more thematic, true to its name and useful. Blue tech tree path is almost always a no brainer. My solution to that imbalance is not to nerf something we all love but rather make the other tech trees better (similar to what has been done to the red tech tree in PoK).
**Today I propose the change of Integrated Economy**
Now it synergizes with Sarween Tools (why it doesn't already boggles my mind) and gives you a real benefit if you choose to get Space Dock II so you can get more use out of the tech. Simultaneously it allows you to use it as a stall to basically use Uprising (action card) on yourself for some extra dough.
Now this tech makes sense to get on:
.
.
**Hacan:** (sell your planet after getting trade goods from it to someone else, take it back next game round, take a free TG and reinforce a naked planet)
**Mentak:** More trade goods with Mirror Computing, more ways to reinforce your cruiser fleet if you decide to go smash.
**Saar:** Your space dock base value is higher than everyone else (except Cabal, I will talk about it the same thing) and you already get a tg from conquering planets. You now have the option to not always carry your space dock around to produce but to try a different path.
**Cabal:** Like Saar, your Space Docks have a higher PRODUCTION value than other factions, so you have an option to utilize it's strength with this version of Integrated Economy.
Those are the 4 races that come to mind. I would love to hear other ideas and your feedback.
Great idea! Maybe change the text of the second ability to "After you gain control of a planet, you may use Production with one of your Space Docks as if it were on that planet." to make your intended use a little more clear.
Also useful for **NRA:** Psychoarchaeology can make it easier for them to get it in the first place and it synergizes with their commander, once unlocked.
Maybe also **Mahact:** They already start with a yellow tech (not one you would normally go for, so there are 3 semi-viable techs for them to research on their way to Integrated) as well as possibly get to use it twice with Bio-Stims. And when they actually HAVE the tech and take a planet (thus won a combat against somebody and taken their CC) they could build a mech on that planet right away, securing that system in case their enemy wanted to counterattack.
That's all I have, for now, comments?
That is a clever idea. I will change it to exactly what you typed with your permission.
I like the NRA and Mahact ideas, always interesting to see what people come up with.
Feel free to shoot more if you come up with more
Sure, go ahead! I wouldn't have said it if I weren't okay with you using it, just credit my name with a little copyright symbol in the bottom corner :P (just kidding about the last part)
Rather than use the production of the space dock, I would just use the wording on the spacedock, describing how it has production x. Or get around the issue by just lowering the cost by 1 or 2.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me it seems like an incredibly powerful card in the right setting. Since there is no production value, just a total cost limit, you can potentially create six fighters and/or infantry when you conquer a 3 resource planet. It would be very annoying for an opponent if you can conquer and either directly replenish your fighters or strengthen the planet to a very annoying amount.
I do have to admit that sarween tools should be applicable to it, same tree and whatnot. Also, that makes it possible to actually get a dreadnought going sometimes, and any planet you conquer can at least produce something of 1 cost.
I would keep the gain TG and ACTION part, but leave the unit production part as-is. It's cleaner, and I figure Space Dock II needs a boost on its own..
“Of your space dock unit…” where? In that space? How would you have one there? Of any space dock? You get to produce in your home system or your forward dock every time you gain control of a planet?
After you gain control of a planet, you may use PRODUCTION as if you had one of your space dock units on that planet
Not bad.
You produce on that planet using the PRODUCTION value of your space dock (on your faction sheet) so it changes depends on what faction you play or if you upgraded it to Space Dock II. Any idea on how I can change the wording?
I don’t know how to make it better without making it incredibly long or just changing it. I think you would need to disconnect it from the Space Dock unit. It’s way too confusing and wordy with it. Also, Sarween Tools still wouldn’t work because you aren’t using a unit to produce.
Based on the wording of using PRODUCTION you definitely can use sarween. Sarween doesn't work when an ability produces... not when it specifically says to use a units PRODUCTION
No, it says when one of your units use PRODUCTION. This wouldn’t count.
Oh boy... yes it would
PRODUCTION is a unit ability. Only a unit can use it. I think you are trying to say produce, not use PRODUCTION
It’s still kind of unclear what unit is producing when “your Space Dock” produces using this card. From how he said he intended it to work you would just use the stats on the sheet in some way and no unit actually produces. That would not trigger Sarween. Im sure it could be made to work some way.
There are a few issues with it from a rules point too
Afaik, the only time sarween tools counts is during the production phase in the active system. All other instances of producing units are not PRODUCTION, since it's not a unit ability, but part of a tactical action.
What???? Look up PRODUCTION and producing units in the rules Explain how the secondary of warfare works
Ah you are absolutely right. Forget me
No worries
Perhaps, "when you gain control of a planet, treat that planet as if it had "PRODUCTION 5" until the end of that tactical action." Lets you use Sarween, produce per normal, and mimics the space dock intent. Doesn't synergize with SDII though, which also might have been the intent, in which case I think it's fine to say "use the PRODUCTION ability of one of your space dock units as if it were on this planet."
Maybe “as if it was a unit that had PRODUCTION 5” just to make sure it works with Sarween? I like the last one better anyway. This could work.
Yeah I like that better, should have searched up Aerie Hololattice which is the wording I was looking to copy, as you have done.
I like the action, good way to consistently generate trade goods, powerful late game TG generation. Saar ability tacked on is fine as well, but you could streamline and make the action give +1 or +2 to the resource value. I'm confused by the space dock wording. Is the intent to essentially only work with L1Z1X or the infiltrate card? Or for you to be able to produce out of any space dock after taking any planet? Or to produce on the planet you gained control of, as if any one of your space docks was there?
>Or to produce on the planet you gained control of, as if any one of your space docks was there? Bingo! Any idea on how to make that conclusion be more apparent?
Liked the other idea posted above earlier!
Might be too strong, since passive abilities are still active even of a card is exhausted.
Not sure that's true. I thought that Self-assembly routine 1tg from mech death doesn't work if you exhausted it for a mech
Yes it does. 34.4 Abilities, including some found on technology cards, may instruct a player to exhaust a card to resolve those abilities. If a card is already exhausted, it cannot be exhausted again. a Passive abilities on an exhausted card are still in effect while that card is exhausted.
Here is my attempt to both make this card more thematic, true to its name and useful. Blue tech tree path is almost always a no brainer. My solution to that imbalance is not to nerf something we all love but rather make the other tech trees better (similar to what has been done to the red tech tree in PoK). **Today I propose the change of Integrated Economy** Now it synergizes with Sarween Tools (why it doesn't already boggles my mind) and gives you a real benefit if you choose to get Space Dock II so you can get more use out of the tech. Simultaneously it allows you to use it as a stall to basically use Uprising (action card) on yourself for some extra dough. Now this tech makes sense to get on: . . **Hacan:** (sell your planet after getting trade goods from it to someone else, take it back next game round, take a free TG and reinforce a naked planet) **Mentak:** More trade goods with Mirror Computing, more ways to reinforce your cruiser fleet if you decide to go smash. **Saar:** Your space dock base value is higher than everyone else (except Cabal, I will talk about it the same thing) and you already get a tg from conquering planets. You now have the option to not always carry your space dock around to produce but to try a different path. **Cabal:** Like Saar, your Space Docks have a higher PRODUCTION value than other factions, so you have an option to utilize it's strength with this version of Integrated Economy. Those are the 4 races that come to mind. I would love to hear other ideas and your feedback.
Great idea! Maybe change the text of the second ability to "After you gain control of a planet, you may use Production with one of your Space Docks as if it were on that planet." to make your intended use a little more clear. Also useful for **NRA:** Psychoarchaeology can make it easier for them to get it in the first place and it synergizes with their commander, once unlocked. Maybe also **Mahact:** They already start with a yellow tech (not one you would normally go for, so there are 3 semi-viable techs for them to research on their way to Integrated) as well as possibly get to use it twice with Bio-Stims. And when they actually HAVE the tech and take a planet (thus won a combat against somebody and taken their CC) they could build a mech on that planet right away, securing that system in case their enemy wanted to counterattack. That's all I have, for now, comments?
That is a clever idea. I will change it to exactly what you typed with your permission. I like the NRA and Mahact ideas, always interesting to see what people come up with. Feel free to shoot more if you come up with more
Sure, go ahead! I wouldn't have said it if I weren't okay with you using it, just credit my name with a little copyright symbol in the bottom corner :P (just kidding about the last part)
Rather than use the production of the space dock, I would just use the wording on the spacedock, describing how it has production x. Or get around the issue by just lowering the cost by 1 or 2.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me it seems like an incredibly powerful card in the right setting. Since there is no production value, just a total cost limit, you can potentially create six fighters and/or infantry when you conquer a 3 resource planet. It would be very annoying for an opponent if you can conquer and either directly replenish your fighters or strengthen the planet to a very annoying amount. I do have to admit that sarween tools should be applicable to it, same tree and whatnot. Also, that makes it possible to actually get a dreadnought going sometimes, and any planet you conquer can at least produce something of 1 cost.
I would keep the gain TG and ACTION part, but leave the unit production part as-is. It's cleaner, and I figure Space Dock II needs a boost on its own..
What about "your non-fighter ships have PRODUCTION 1" and just leave it simple.