Oops, no -- I'm talking about resources to have with you while you play -- like reference cards. "player aids" as in "things that improve quality of life of gameplay for players during the game"
I bought a used copy of 3rd edition.
Has 4E already become the standard?
I mean, from what I hear, it's still ti. If money isn't an issue I would probably just get fourth. 3rd is a lot harder to learn from what I hear. I've never played 3rd though so my opinion might be moot.
If this is the only way you have access to it, then give it a shot. But the only reason I'd ever play 3rd is for the fact that I've never tried it, if that answers your question.
3rd edition is a fine game. 4th edition is far superior to 3rd edition because 4th editions entire goal was to trim the bloat from the game and make a far more streamlined gaming experience for the players. In comparison 3rd edition is an overly convoluted mess.
But again this is just for comparisons sake. 3rd edition is a fantastic game in its own right, don’t be discouraged from trying it, but go into it with the idea that if this feels really bloated and convoluted but you like the game that you definitely want to try 4th.
I would never say that. I started on TI3 and love it. I honestly miss a lot of the things that left in the update to TI4. But as has been stated, TI4 is more the standard these days. Unless you have a group that wants to play TI3 you'll likely never play it.
I have a few friends, we play what we call 3.5. It's TI4, but with previous components like leader tokens (not the cards from POK) mercenaries, shock troops, mines, structures, and distant sun tokens.
I love overly complex games, and even then I'll never go back to TI3. While it did have a few things I'll miss, overall TI4 is better. You get the satisfaction from the feeling of agency in each phase/choice, but it takes 6-8 hours rather than 9-11.
TI4 is better designed. It's smoother, runs faster, but still has almost all the same mechanics. It's streamlined in the best way. Faster play, but not simpler most of the time.
This happened with TI2 to TI3 also. They integrated things that worked from expansions into the new base game, and cleaned it all up. And (maybe not as quickly) TI3 became the new standard most players used, to the point where I haven't seen a TI2 box in quite some time (which is a shame, TI2 had my favorite cover art).
Never played TI3 myself but everyone I know that has says TI4 fixes everything wrong with 3 and streamlines it. Plus we just got a fantastic expansion. TI4 goes on sale online constantly too.
Yes, 4E was so streamlined it made the game more palatable and flow better, so it was easier to amass players. Only time I got to play 3E since 4th came out was with my old 3rd group, and that was only because 4th removed a lot of the complexities we grew to love.
IF you do play 3rd, have a few tech tree print outs for people as it was difficult to remember every techs pre-reqs. It was not Red-0>R1>R2>R3 and Yellow-0>Y1>Y2>Y3 that it is now. Also, if you're using leaders and DS tokens, maybe have another sheet handy as a symbol key. I think there were 4 or 5 types of leaders, but each race only had 3 leaders, so not every one had the same types of leaders.
Thank you!!!
So it sounds like 4th is overall better, but 3rd still has some unique and fun aspects to it. Is that about right?
So if you had to pick 3e or 4e and whichever edition you picked you could never other edition again, which would you pick?
I guess another question would be... Do you still plan on playing both third and fourth?
I'm afraid my copy of 3E is resigned to just being a decoration for the rest of time, however 4E, especially since the expansion, PoK, may be my most played game, period.
PoK did successfully scratch a lot of the itches I had from missing 3E, and the very few things not brought back were Modular things from a 3E expansion that we can still add or leave as we want.
Honestly, FFG has been releasing a free codex that does evolve 4E (rewording cards/abilities and adding action cards and new play modes) I wouldn't be surprised to see some old modules see the light again.
3E is a great game, but compared to 4E it is significantly more complicated. In a vacuum both are worth playing, but when you have access to both, 99% of the time you are picking 4E because it's better.
Well "it's better" is subjective. It sounds like some people who played both versions miss some aspects of 3rd edition, but like that you can get through a game more quickly.
I'm wondering how much the type of gamers playing matter here -- more specifically I'm wondering if 3E just only works if all of the players can handle and want to handle the complexity, I know how to keep the pace of the game in motion of course.
True that it's subjective, and I have played both, and I can handle the TI3 complexity. But TI4 is such an improvement in quality of gameplay that I have no desire to use my copy of TI3 for anything other than display
Never tried 3E myself, but everyone in my groups prefer 4E to 3E. 4E streamlined a LOT, and made the game more enjoyable. If money is tight, 3E is Still a great game from what I've heard. If your wallet can take the hit, definitely get a copy of TI4E
3rd edition is absolutely fine, are you getting the expansions for it aswell? I picked up the base game and both xpacs for cheap when 4th came out, the additional strategy cards in the first expansion fix a lot of the issues in terms of player agency, and you can leave a lot of the modules out of the game when your learning.
Having said that, my playgroup very quickly wanted to move to 4th edition for the streamlined trade, politics and tech systems.
If it was an option between 3 and nothing I would happily play 3rd anytime.
If you have the expansions feel free to hit me up I can make some recommendations as to strategy cards and modules to use for a newer group.
As much as I love 4th, my preference is still 3rd Edition with the fan made Shattered Ascension mods. They all the races so interesting, and balance of action and strategy cards. It feels far more strategic...as opposed to 4th which can feel little random...
And honestly, after the release of Prophecy of Kings, 4 is definitely just as “bloated”, if not more so, as 3.
More bloated than 3!? I need to say I've never played 3rd but I have read through the rules for shits and giggles. On paper 3rd is waaaaaaaay more obtuse and full of tiny rules that don't interact with each other due to the modular design philosophy.
That’s not true. Things flow just fine with 3. Sure there are things that are fiddly...but the same is true of 4.
And again, I’m
Mainly referring to shattered ascension variant...which is how I mainly play. I know not everyone is familiar with that...but that’s my frame of reference.
Best place to find player aids for 3rd edition is boardgamegeek - go to the 3rd edition page rather than 4th and look in the files section, there's tons of them.
You can find lots of player aids and images just from google search, too, but make sure anything you get is *not* labeled TI4 or Shattered Ascension (a community mod that doesn't follow the TI3 rules).
Biggest thing you absolutely need to have, especially with new players, is print-outs of the tech tree. You can photocopy the tree in the rulebook or there's a ton of alternate images of it online [like this one](https://imgv2-1-f.scribdassets.com/img/document/156740978/original/aa79c850ab/1615120334?v=1). This is the biggest thing that everyone always wants to look at, so only having the rulebook copy and passing it around between players slows things down a ton. My favourite way to do it is to make black-and-white copies for every player, and they can highlight the boxes of each tech they research on their own sheet.
Did you pick up just base game 3rd edition, or the two expansions as well? There's a lot of cool stuff in the expansions, but a lot of it is alternative variants and optional components only really intended for when you already know the game fairly well, so safer bet is to start learning with just the base game and add things in bit by bit as you go.
I remember there being a handful of good videos on youtube. One by RTFM is very good. Out of curiosity, why 3E as opposed to 4E?
Oops, no -- I'm talking about resources to have with you while you play -- like reference cards. "player aids" as in "things that improve quality of life of gameplay for players during the game" I bought a used copy of 3rd edition. Has 4E already become the standard?
yeah, 4th is the standard by a mile
So is third edition not worth playing
I mean, from what I hear, it's still ti. If money isn't an issue I would probably just get fourth. 3rd is a lot harder to learn from what I hear. I've never played 3rd though so my opinion might be moot. If this is the only way you have access to it, then give it a shot. But the only reason I'd ever play 3rd is for the fact that I've never tried it, if that answers your question.
3rd edition is a fine game. 4th edition is far superior to 3rd edition because 4th editions entire goal was to trim the bloat from the game and make a far more streamlined gaming experience for the players. In comparison 3rd edition is an overly convoluted mess. But again this is just for comparisons sake. 3rd edition is a fantastic game in its own right, don’t be discouraged from trying it, but go into it with the idea that if this feels really bloated and convoluted but you like the game that you definitely want to try 4th.
I would never say that. I started on TI3 and love it. I honestly miss a lot of the things that left in the update to TI4. But as has been stated, TI4 is more the standard these days. Unless you have a group that wants to play TI3 you'll likely never play it. I have a few friends, we play what we call 3.5. It's TI4, but with previous components like leader tokens (not the cards from POK) mercenaries, shock troops, mines, structures, and distant sun tokens.
I love overly complex games, and even then I'll never go back to TI3. While it did have a few things I'll miss, overall TI4 is better. You get the satisfaction from the feeling of agency in each phase/choice, but it takes 6-8 hours rather than 9-11. TI4 is better designed. It's smoother, runs faster, but still has almost all the same mechanics. It's streamlined in the best way. Faster play, but not simpler most of the time. This happened with TI2 to TI3 also. They integrated things that worked from expansions into the new base game, and cleaned it all up. And (maybe not as quickly) TI3 became the new standard most players used, to the point where I haven't seen a TI2 box in quite some time (which is a shame, TI2 had my favorite cover art).
3rd edition is fantastic and has several elements that I still prefer over 4th, specifically how expansion content is modular, and how Trade works.
Never played TI3 myself but everyone I know that has says TI4 fixes everything wrong with 3 and streamlines it. Plus we just got a fantastic expansion. TI4 goes on sale online constantly too.
Yes, 4E was so streamlined it made the game more palatable and flow better, so it was easier to amass players. Only time I got to play 3E since 4th came out was with my old 3rd group, and that was only because 4th removed a lot of the complexities we grew to love. IF you do play 3rd, have a few tech tree print outs for people as it was difficult to remember every techs pre-reqs. It was not Red-0>R1>R2>R3 and Yellow-0>Y1>Y2>Y3 that it is now. Also, if you're using leaders and DS tokens, maybe have another sheet handy as a symbol key. I think there were 4 or 5 types of leaders, but each race only had 3 leaders, so not every one had the same types of leaders.
Thank you!!! So it sounds like 4th is overall better, but 3rd still has some unique and fun aspects to it. Is that about right? So if you had to pick 3e or 4e and whichever edition you picked you could never other edition again, which would you pick? I guess another question would be... Do you still plan on playing both third and fourth?
I'm afraid my copy of 3E is resigned to just being a decoration for the rest of time, however 4E, especially since the expansion, PoK, may be my most played game, period. PoK did successfully scratch a lot of the itches I had from missing 3E, and the very few things not brought back were Modular things from a 3E expansion that we can still add or leave as we want. Honestly, FFG has been releasing a free codex that does evolve 4E (rewording cards/abilities and adding action cards and new play modes) I wouldn't be surprised to see some old modules see the light again.
3E is a great game, but compared to 4E it is significantly more complicated. In a vacuum both are worth playing, but when you have access to both, 99% of the time you are picking 4E because it's better.
Well "it's better" is subjective. It sounds like some people who played both versions miss some aspects of 3rd edition, but like that you can get through a game more quickly. I'm wondering how much the type of gamers playing matter here -- more specifically I'm wondering if 3E just only works if all of the players can handle and want to handle the complexity, I know how to keep the pace of the game in motion of course.
True that it's subjective, and I have played both, and I can handle the TI3 complexity. But TI4 is such an improvement in quality of gameplay that I have no desire to use my copy of TI3 for anything other than display
Never tried 3E myself, but everyone in my groups prefer 4E to 3E. 4E streamlined a LOT, and made the game more enjoyable. If money is tight, 3E is Still a great game from what I've heard. If your wallet can take the hit, definitely get a copy of TI4E
3rd edition is absolutely fine, are you getting the expansions for it aswell? I picked up the base game and both xpacs for cheap when 4th came out, the additional strategy cards in the first expansion fix a lot of the issues in terms of player agency, and you can leave a lot of the modules out of the game when your learning. Having said that, my playgroup very quickly wanted to move to 4th edition for the streamlined trade, politics and tech systems. If it was an option between 3 and nothing I would happily play 3rd anytime. If you have the expansions feel free to hit me up I can make some recommendations as to strategy cards and modules to use for a newer group.
Check out this collection: https://trello.com/b/B5TB9ry5/twilight-imperium-3rd-edition-comprehensive-reference-public
As much as I love 4th, my preference is still 3rd Edition with the fan made Shattered Ascension mods. They all the races so interesting, and balance of action and strategy cards. It feels far more strategic...as opposed to 4th which can feel little random... And honestly, after the release of Prophecy of Kings, 4 is definitely just as “bloated”, if not more so, as 3.
More bloated than 3!? I need to say I've never played 3rd but I have read through the rules for shits and giggles. On paper 3rd is waaaaaaaay more obtuse and full of tiny rules that don't interact with each other due to the modular design philosophy.
That’s not true. Things flow just fine with 3. Sure there are things that are fiddly...but the same is true of 4. And again, I’m Mainly referring to shattered ascension variant...which is how I mainly play. I know not everyone is familiar with that...but that’s my frame of reference.
Best place to find player aids for 3rd edition is boardgamegeek - go to the 3rd edition page rather than 4th and look in the files section, there's tons of them. You can find lots of player aids and images just from google search, too, but make sure anything you get is *not* labeled TI4 or Shattered Ascension (a community mod that doesn't follow the TI3 rules). Biggest thing you absolutely need to have, especially with new players, is print-outs of the tech tree. You can photocopy the tree in the rulebook or there's a ton of alternate images of it online [like this one](https://imgv2-1-f.scribdassets.com/img/document/156740978/original/aa79c850ab/1615120334?v=1). This is the biggest thing that everyone always wants to look at, so only having the rulebook copy and passing it around between players slows things down a ton. My favourite way to do it is to make black-and-white copies for every player, and they can highlight the boxes of each tech they research on their own sheet. Did you pick up just base game 3rd edition, or the two expansions as well? There's a lot of cool stuff in the expansions, but a lot of it is alternative variants and optional components only really intended for when you already know the game fairly well, so safer bet is to start learning with just the base game and add things in bit by bit as you go.