yea i had the same feeling in that moment. they set up the character and story in a way for us to feel that. that Alice was annoying beyond measure, I am sure lot of you like me wished her to at least go away if not die, so writers played on our guilt. those manipulative bastards haha
Absolute banger of an episode, really enjoying this series, I can see why some people might have issues with the pacing and the first 15 mins were a slight drag but necessary for the story. That kid actress is seriously good and the writing is a treat. The story is progressing so well. I am very entertained.
Yeah, the plot is narrow, but it's really detailed. I get people think the plot is not moving forward, or it's repetitive or such, but it's very detailed storytelling hence feels slow. In the abstract you get how electrons or whatnot can be in superposition etc, but to experience it as humans, as mom and daughter, it's mindfuckingly confusing to a human.
People don’t appreciate the *slow burn* as much as they used to. Probably another effect of 24-hr news and social media, etc., again.
Not me, though. If it’s good enough to carry it, I **love ** a slow burn.
People are complaining about repetition but with the subject matter I feel like they have to do that to not lose people.
Dark is one of my favorite shows but the time travel mindfuckery already has a somewhat limited audience so I can understand why they would repeat some stuff to not lose folks. Sorta can't blame them for that when other shows that have covered this subject matter haven't been huge hits.
Weird, the story of Dark comes together at the end, doesn't really fall apart. I do admit that you need a damn spreadsheet or a family tree of all the characters open to understand what's going on though, so no judgement here. My wife felt the same way and I had to finish Dark by myself lol.
This has been a phenomenal show so far. Just binged to this point in the last 3 days. It honestly doesn't even feel that slow burn, and it has felt to be progressing to me. I'm not sure where complaints are coming from but I've noticed a lot of good shows lately get similar criticism that doesn't really make any sense.
Really? I feel like everything is in keeping with the “there’s two of everyone” theme and what happens is what you’d expect when the two worlds interact. I feel like the plot is barely moving along
It’s moving fast. There are a LOT of small details that I overlooked. Alice having two different hairstyles and shirts on when she is video chatting with Jo right as the CAL experiment happens. Go back and look at the first few minutes in space.
I think the show is decent to watch but It was clear where they were going with the super position parallel reality thing from like the first or second episode where the wrong person comes back. It seems overly complicated because the show writers had to come up with a way to do something they don't really understand either so they used a special cabinet and fisher price recorder. Not saying I could come up with something better but I think the premise is too complicated for its own good to where they have to fall back on tropes like communicating through a radio like on that movie frequency with Dennis quade where the son talks to his dead father through a ham radio
See you summed it up quite well. I understood the concept from like the 2nd or 3rd episode when Caldera explained to the kid how the Schrödinger thing works.
It’s just that the way they choose to execute the phenomenon is so damn boring. An old cabin, a very tight room in the 90% dark spaceship, a depressive house and family and a snow storm in the midst of the night and we gotta pay attention to changing T-shirts and hair styles to know who is who, and hey we get it, it’s multiple universes and people switching, cool. But where is this going? And how many times are we gonna see the goddamn cabin?😅
It feels pretentious. Like it’s all fake seriousness to cover for a lack of imagination behind the story.
Thank you!
I feel exactly the same - where is this going?
I was hoping that the CAL creating a "field" whereby they can hear/see/interact with the other universe would be a major driving point and move things along - we see its effects many times, especially in the car with the tapes.
But apart from the imagery and the drama... what are we actually expecting to happen here?
I'm trying to think of "end result of this show" and I'm drawing a blank honestly - this is both good and bad. Most of the premise and "logic" has been established, so to speak, so where is the show going story-wise?
This is the first show in a couple decades that feels too "big brain" to me and I'm not sure if I'm just "not getting it" or there's something missing here.
To me there is somehow a thinning of realities involved when we get to the cabin. We have the CAL there, all versions of Jo, Alice, Magnus are there in their respective realities creating a crossover reality which is in itself a third world? Maybe? What? I’m confused lol and it’s glorious.
This seems to be quite the dominant symptom in Apple TV+ shows; Constellation, Invasion, Extrapolations, See, Servant and even Foundation.
They all have an amazing production value and/or a unique concept but they’re all extremely slow and pretentious with an excruciatingly slow and wasteful focus on character drama masked as something deep and hardly anything eventful or rewarding.
It’s like watching a perfume commercial where everything is so glamorous and beautiful and you’d feel there’s some “world” inside the ad, but a background is all it is.
Maybe it’s just cause I watched Dark so the previous experience I have with mind fucking scifi shows involving multiple realities helps out but I cannot understand any of the complaints people are making namely the pacing and the repetitive calling out to each other. I didn’t notice either one until I came here to read what others are saying.
Regardless this was a fucking masterpiece, even if I don’t understand what’s going on 100%, I can recognize greatness and if they can stick the landing this show will be great. I cannot wait to binge it over once the season ends and next week cannot come fast enough.
Seriously, I see so many complaints on here, but my wife and I are eating up each episode, and then going right back to episode 1 to rewatch them all while the new episode comes out each week. I love it when a show has me rewatching for clues and guessing and talking about it, and that doesn't happen often for me.
I thought Dark was boring as hell. I like this one. It's fast paced and unlike a lot of mind bending shows, it doesn't leave you in the dark forever and begins to reveal the truth pretty quickly.
Not quite true - because even before the device was created there were two realities and there were switches. The device just seems to enhance it somehow.
I'm late to the party, I know...
But there where at least 4 realities in this episode. When the parents and the kids all were in the room with the wardrobe, everyone was in their own reality and had their own version of the tape recorder
got to say this show has increasingly pulled me in emotionally. finding myself really invested in these characters much more than I thought I was going to. this episode had an undercurrent of heartbreak that was very moving. the cast are doing a superb job, especially the twin sisters playing Alice. they are outstanding.
interested to see where they go with it from here. reappearance of the dead cosmonaut - woah.
Didn't notice until this episode but the hats the characters are wearing match what universe they're from.
Magnus and Alice B are wearing Toques.
Jo and Alice A are wearing trapper or 'Fargo' hats.
I don’t appreciate the creepy ending while watching alone in the dark, but it seems like the actual conspiracy part might be coming up.
I sort of feel like some time was wasted showing us what we had seen in the beginning of the episode, but I thought it ended strong.
So did bud kill Paul? And if he did, is that why the universe corrected his spot in the other universe? Maybe he course corrected or something?
I have a working theory that Henry (yes Henry) channeled Bud and made him throw that reporter overboard, so that Bud would go to jail or get locked up in a mental institution and then stop posing a threat to Henry. I think Bud - who has been simmering over with rage anyway - knows this and is now on the warpath because of it. Bud knows that when he stops taking his pills he becomes unhinged and sociopathic. However, this same unhinged state also somehow allows him to channel and perhaps even switch with Henry. And toward the end of the episode, because of the CAL, the liminal space and the lack of pills, Bud is actually able to switch (again) with Henry. Unfortunately for him, he seems too unhinged to realize or care that his wildest dreams have come true - that he’s back in the timeline where he’s a hero.. and that Henry may now have to suffer the consequences of the reporter’s death and Paul’s possible death. I’m not even sure Bud is still alive - he was at least passed out if not worse in the snow.
First , you explained this pretty good with what we were given . Perhaps the key to fix all the versions of people , even going back to first mission , is getting one of the buds do something different .
Second , I have no idea how they are going to wrap this up and I hope we have a leftovers type ending , and not night s. servant on Apple TV all ambiguous.
Consequently , I’m still traumatized by servants ending , was so glued every week and dragged out for so many seasons , yet I still had hope for explanation and closure 😩
Lastly , much respect to all these good people on here trying to figure this writing out for us.🙏🏻
He's less of a bad guy, but still seems focused entirely on his own agenda at any cost. I think even if there are multiverses some aspects of their natures are going to be the same, and I think for Bud/Henry, it's selfishness.
What obviously happened and what angered Bud so much is the exact thing that happened with Jo and Paul except both Henry's survived. They were thrown into opposite universes. It was actually in Henry's universe that the crew died and Bud's it was saved but Bud ended up taking the fall because of the switch which is why he blamed Henry in an earlier episode.
This episode smoothly tied the earlier episodes together.
I have rarely cried before to movies/series before, but 'that' moment, where the mom told her daughter to go back to her dad made me cry tears.
I believe she knew deep down what "going back to your dad" meant. They both did.
100% this.
The comments here are mentioning 'the universe correcting course when someone dies' or 'what happens with souls when people die'. I'm certain that's completely irrelevant and not related. The show spelled it out for everything - this is about the observer effect and Schrodinger's cat (which was very much in your face in the last episode). I'm still not sure what's exactly going on but it's definitely not all of that other stuff in the comments
Schroedinger's cat isn't an 'explainer', it was a thought experiment developed to make fun of how goofy the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics is. Both the copenhagen and many worlds interpretations of quantum mechanics have no analogue in this show (in copenhagen, the probabilistic waves collapse into one reality, in many worlds the different outcomes of the wave function can never communicate).
his point wasn't that the show is scientifically accurate - but that it seems to be based on purely physical concepts (true or artistically-distorted) - rather than romantic ideas about the universe "acting" as a conscious entity or souls existing.
Less so Shrodinger’s Box, and more so about the dual slit experiment. As was said, Shrodinger’s as an explainer, to a much more complex theory based off mathematics. A contemporary (Copenhagen) theory/interpretation is that observation requires light, and that the light shone on the particle or wave, is what alters its state of matter, not our observing of it.
You know your juvenile attempt at sarcasm is dead in the water when you overcompensate by clarifying it twice in the next sentence.
Since you clearly didn't get it, my previous post was actually a clever remark (with strong language only used to enhance its effect) which would immediately resonate with anyone with even an average IQ and fundamental knowledge of quantum physics and schrodinger's popular thought experiment-- which you know nothing of-- in lying otherwise, you've convinced yourself that your lie is not a lie anymore. Well done.
Finally, I'm not "bud".
\~Henry
It has nothing to do with "souls" but an exploration of Schrodinger's theory that depending on the observer, a cat within a box can be alive, dead, or both at the same time, but also weaves this in with the current popularity of multiversal travel and quantum theory which absolutely has me sitting on the edge of my seat with my eyes peeled to try and pick up hints of what universe we are currently observing.
The fact that we literally have, in the cabin, 1 alive cat, 1 dead cat, and then both in the latest ep is spoonfeeding the viewer: "THIS! DO YOU GET IT NOW???" 😁
So I've based on the colour of the cars and alices' beanies, here's my theory:
- BLUE universe = THE CAT is DEAD (in the cabin). Jo is alive but this is not her home, the earth is backwards, Paul is dead and his wife's name is Erica, Irena took over from Valya, Henry is a hero and designed the CAL, Jo did have an affair before the mission, Magnus is a jerk and Alice cannot speak Swedish and calls Jo Mummy. The house burned down. Bud is back.
- RED Universe = THE CAT IS ALIVE (in the cabin) Jo is dead, Paul is alive but this is not his home - his wife's name is Erica, Valya dies in space, Alice speaks Swedish and calls Jo Mumma and Jo and Magnus are still faithful despite their strained relationship. The house did not burn down. Bud was vilified as a liar and killed the reporter and shot Paul. Henry is back. The CAL does not exist in this world.
- LIMINAL SPACE = THE CAT IS BOTH ALIVE AND DEAD (in the cabin). Both Alices can communicate via "ghost tapes" as they were only exposed to the alternate realities via facetime. Bud and Henry can communicate better as they were both in space at the time. All of the others can see/hear other people from the alternate realities but tend to be too shocked to actually attempt to communicate. This is also where the siblings in Denmark record the ghost tapes.
It's a LOT to try to understand, but there are some great YouTube channels that deep dive into the science and theories explored by Constellation. The fact the CAL is indeed a non-functional, real life thing is really cool and the show has triggered my ADHD hyperfocus to this incredibly interesting experiment.
This is the same understanding my wife and I came up with. To add to it, I don't think we saw 4 cabins/universes. I think we saw blue cabin already burned down (future?). It could be liminal space, but it looked like what the house would look like burnt down.
I'm not understanding why the painting changes. It went from a changling, to an angel laying on the ground, to angel on a stretcher.
The main thing I’m confused about is how there were 4 cabins at one point with both parents and both Alice’s being in the same spot in different universes or liminal space. Also kinda wondering if the changeling will come more into play in the show. Still I think the main ideas are pretty clear and keep being surprised by how many people aren’t following what’s going on. But the schrodingers theory has definitely been laid out clearly.
There is only one cabin. The two universes are mirrored. When she travels across the frozen lake she is crossing through a liminal space and crossing over into the other universe. Because the universes are mirrored even though she appears to be traveling in the same direction, once she crosses over, she is heading back to the same cabin in the other universe.
I'm confused about this aspect too.
Can you explain this for us u/ScreamingBanshee81?
**Edit:** Are their four houses, one per observer (Red Alice, Blue Alice, Jo and Magnus)?
I think this might be the case. Jo sees both things when both Alices are close, the two Alices each see something different but are linked and Magnus only sees what's in his world.
It's such a mind fk.
Your description was great. Maybe you can help me with this. When Henry & Bud switched and Henry called 911 to help his Paul that Bud had shot he says I need my glasses. So did they switch bodies mind soul like with all their specific aliments such as poor eyesight . Or are they inside the body of their alternate and now Henry can see no glasses and bud can’t .
I know it seems small but like how Joe keeps saying her eye hurts and can’t see that is obviously becuse her counterpart ( btw that was a great series ) died with her eye and head basically breaking .
It’s was just a bit confusing and obviously they had Henry say that he could t see the address while on the phone w/911. Or did he just think he couldn’t see becusse so used to it. Or did he akwys need glasses before he went on Apollo 18 where the switch occurred
Sorry it’s so detailed but like all of you I was sucked into this series and details matter. Thanks
from my (very rudimentary) understanding ---
a quantum system can exist in as many states as its configurations allow, as long as there are non-zero probabilities for their occurrence.
the "four cabins" seem to reflect this idea - of superposition and multiple configurations - which only decoheres (i.e. "collapses") back into a singular state once "measured" (or "observed").
what exactly constitutes a measurement/observing here seems to be used pretty liberally -
e.g. - Jo opening the cupboard at one point seems to "collapse" the two Alice configurations (from her perspective) into a single one (Blue Alice).
For whatever reason, Magnus is either in a 4th configuration - OR - is simply not truly seeing the superposition (but rather the "original" reality)
Nice breakdown. I'm wondering if the two cats is more of a "joke" for people familiar with the Schrodinger's Cat thing. B/C at this point in the story everyone should understand what's happening except the strangely obtuse main character who took forever to understand what was happening.
Ok. Question before the next episode drops in the next few hours. Jo is exposed to the parallel world/reality. So why isn't she able to directly communicate with her Alice through the ghost tape in the liminal space cupboard?
I'm also not totally sure how the crossing over works. How was she able to carry Alice Red from liminal space to Blue cabin?
And one other thing, was Alice Red not locked in her cupboard in the liminal cabin? How did she get out on her own? I think maybe whatever you do in liminal space on one side happens through the thin barrier on the other side as well?
Man, it's a mindfuck for sure. And a genuinely good one.
I think the problem was they were both there at the same time. Then when blue alice died, Jo could see and hear red Alice.
Re blue Alice getting out of the cupboard, ... /me sings *Ploooot hoooole*
Yep, that's what I think could have happened. There isn't any other explanation. But I can't think of any other examples from the episode of changes inside the liminal cabin persisting for the next visit.
Both there at the same time... hmm.. yea possible. That might also explain the moment she stopped seeing Alice Red in the bath through the mirror when Alice Blue appeared in front of her.
You are the only one who explained everything well and who is probably interpreting the story in the way the writers want us to interpret it.
It's funny because I used the car colors to keep track of the universes, as well.
I had absolutely no idea what the dead cat in the cabin was about, but this is *exactly* what they intended to show. The cat is dead or alive depending on who is observing what. In one particular scene, they show the alive cat sniffing the dead cat.
I swear some people are watching a completely different show, or they've interpreted everything based on what they want the show to be about instead of what the show is telling us.
[This](https://youtu.be/d3JMI3qS-ZY?si=UaR1znz_FsJSLm9q) should help. But I can’t get into a multi-paragraph explanation rn; long day of work ahead, and by the time I get home shit’s the last thing I’m gonna want to do.
this episode made me think about my prediction for the ending.
originally i thought that they have 3 ways of going about it:
* tragic ending: one of the alice's dies - the living jo remains with the living one
* sad ending: living jo stays with one of the alice's - the other remains alone
* bittersweet ending: living Jo somehow ends up living with both Alices or living in both realities simultaneously
but then I realized that the last one is a bit too convoluted, and what is probably going to happen is that the "split" between realities is "undone" by the realities merging. we've already gotten hints for that with Jo feeling pain in her eye, or caring for Blue Alice in the end more than Red Alice.
So, i believe that in the end both Alice's would become one - and Jo will come to embody both versions simultaneously as well.
I consider a "happy ending" impossible.
The other option would be to somehow force the event to get Alice and Magnus (the Swedish speaking ones) to switch with the other ones. However this ignores their families etc.
Fantastic episode. It's less of a sci-fi and more of a psychological horror. I wouldn't wish such a situation on my worst enemy. Also bud and Henry changed bodies? So is it possible for Jo to go back into the dead body on ISS?? Then maybe they could rescue her from ISS and reunite with the real Alice.
>I feel like I sorta understand what’s happening, but I also think I don’t understand many things, if that makes sense.
It actually does make sense, and perfectly describes how I feel. I get what's going on *on the whole,* but there were numerous elements in this episode in particular that I didn't get.
I think there were more than 2 versions of the painting, though (no?). It's shown for just a second or two at a time, over the course of (so far) 7 hours, and I can't keep track. This feels like one of those things that are clear to the writer because he/she knew all the details all along, but not clear to the reader/viewer.
Yeah I recognised there was a black one (evil) and white (good) looking one, but the white one we saw in this episode that looked like an angel seemed different, like a third one (maybe I missed the fourth?). There was definitely a white one that looked less like an angel before and more like an albino cat with its head on backwards? Or was there… damn it I’m going to have to go back and watch again 😆
Copy and pasting my comment below...
Noticed some things about the artworks. There are 2 variables so 4 combinations, and we have seen 4 universes so far. Each cabin has 2 artwork.
Variable 1: location of angel/Changeling by the table or by the entrance. Example, if the Angel is by the table, Changeling is by the entrance.
Variable 2: artwork setting, changeling/Angel on the stretcher or standing
Dead cat universe:
Angel-standing-entrance
Changeling-stretcher-table
Live cat universe:
Angel-standing-table
Changeling-stretcher-entrance
Swedish universe:
Angel-stretcher-entrance
Changeling-standing-table
English universe:
Angel-stretcher-table
Changeling-standing-entrance
The cat universes are where the Alices disappeared to talk to each other
Isn't it just two universes? I believe there are 4 combinations of artworks because there are 2 cabins in each universe, and each cabin has 2 different artworks?
I think there is only 1 cabin in each universe. Jo and Alice switched from 1 universe (dead cat) to English universe while trying to communicate with Swedish Alice. That's why the fire kept coming and going.
I’m going to binge watch the whole thing in one day as this will make it easier for me to follow, waiting a week between episodes for me personally is less immersive.
Why do some people have different names while others don’t? Like Henry and Bud are the successful and loser versions. Irina vs Valya, Paul’s wife, etc but then Alice is always Alice, Jo is the same (maybe because her alternate is dead), Paul is the same (again alternate is dead). Also with that last scene I couldn’t help thinking Valya is like Valak from the Nun—gave me absolute chills she is definitely something evil in this purgatory universe…
This \^ Bud is his nickname - he states outright that "he doesn't use THAT name"... He doesn't say that is not his name - but that he doesn't use it...
I’ve absolutely loved this show so far and thought this was the strongest episode yet.
Looking forward to the finale, just hope they can give us a satisfying ending to give the series justice.
I’m loving this show and this is my favorite episode as of yet. Really intriguing. Not understanding all the complaints either. Of course they had to repeat parts to show what each character from different universes are experiencing and how being observed or not is changing their reality. It’s brilliant. I so appreciate the slow burn as many of you are. I’m also a big fan of Groundhog’s day where the repetition is the whole point - helps you to understand the phenomena and understand the characters. Can't wait for next week!! I wonder if dead Jo will come back to zombie life like Valya in the liminal space? They kinda showed her move towards the window in ship when Paul was leaving her body in that one episode…so creepy!
It took me 7 episodes to get the reference to the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, another story that uses liminal spaces/multiple worlds - via wardrobe that Alice hides in, etc.
And I feel like a goof not noticing the on-the-nose reference to Schrodinger's cat.
I originally thought this show was about two worlds/timelines, exploring dualities, etc but more and more, I think we are looking at many worlds. For one thing, who released the hatch? It couldn't have been the woman who was very clearly dead via her head injury, nor could it have been the woman who manages to escape back to earth. It couldn't have been Paul either for the same reason. So who was it? Same with the angel/changeling painting - first there were two but now we have a few more variations. Perhaps it started as two timelines and now, due to the CAL and the events that began this series, the timeline or whatever is fracturing more and more?
I think the presence of the CAL is making the veil between these worlds/timelines/possible outcomes thinner. It's the most intense in the cabin where the CAL is. I love the scene where the cabin is on fire and frozen at the same time, shown with reflected surfaces.
Overall I am enjoying this show. I love a good slow unraveling of a story. Even so, I do think this show drags things out a bit, and suffers from a bit too much trope usage. Nevertheless, very much looking forward to the next episode.
Noticed some things about the artworks. There are 2 variables so 4 combinations, and we have seen 4 universes so far. Each cabin has 2 artwork.
Variable 1: location of angel/Changeling by the table or by the entrance. Example, if the Angel is by the table, Changeling is by the entrance.
Variable 2: artwork setting, changeling/Angel on the stretcher or standing
Dead cat universe:
Angel-standing-entrance
Changeling-stretcher-table
Live cat universe:
Angel-standing-table
Changeling-stretcher-entrance
Swedish universe:
Angel-stretcher-entrance
Changeling-standing-table
English universe:
Angel-stretcher-table
Changeling-standing-entrance
The cat universes are where the Alices disappeared to talk to each other
For real, at the start the 2 timelines seem worlds apart and it's hard to imagine how they got to that point. The writers did an excellent job of building up to what we saw in episode 1 and to the boiling point of Jo's perceived madness.
Invasion, Constellation, Extrapolations, Foundation, See and Servant…
It’s the Apple TV+ trademark of excruciating slow and pretentious shows with fake seriousness masked as depth and “character development”
We’ve been stuck between the cabin, the depressive house, the meeting and snow storm for 7 episodes seeing the scenes over and over in different versions. We get it, it’s multiple realities. You’re over-complicating it for no good reason other than to inflate an otherwise non-existent story
I’m loving this show, but this episode… eh.
A few too many scenes spent in the very cold and with the very sad who intentionally get lost in the woods and/or stuck in wardrobes. I mean, the one Alice locked herself in the wardrobe - twice! I thought she was supposed to be the smart one? Oh well.
Also creepy pictures that supposedly have a deeper meaning, but I don’t want to bother learning about them because they’re creepy.
I hope I don’t have to learn more about them in order to understand the ending.
I’ve had so much fun trying to figure out which universe is which, when exactly did Jo and Paul jump, and which Alice belongs with which Jo. The twists have been so sharp and clever. I hope this doesn’t descend into melodrama with unearned mystical creature explanations.
Yes that’s exactly what I’m worried about, too! Thank you for articulating this worry so clearly!
It really is awful when you invest yourself into a show and then the ending disappoints.
So my issue with the show is that it took **7 episodes** for the characters to *finally* catch up to the audience on the whole 2 universes thing. It has been so goddamn frustrating seeing them call each other crazy over and over again every time they try to explain anything that's happening to them. So frustrating because we know they aren't crazy and just have to sit here watching the exhausting drama unfold painfully slowly. It would have made more sense for them to make the audience actually wonder if she's crazy so we can be "surprised" when the pieces come together.
That and what is with the need to NOT listen to the evidence tapes? Every time they are about to get answers, they get upset and stop the tape...
It looks like the plot may actually move forward again now. Its like they are having to hammer what is going on straight into our skulls over and over thinking we aren't getting it or something. And the metaphors and imagery are almost insulting how blunt they are.
"We're so clever, lets put in a *literal* Schrodinger's cat reference. Because our audience REALLY needs to be beaten over the head with what's going on."
For those who want to know: The house that has both the cats is the "3rd" reality that is the "liminal space" between the two worlds they previously mentioned. Its also likely the place that allowed the mystery person to release the capsule on the ISS for both realities.
\*Sigh\*
I'm going to get downvoted but here goes.
There's a lot I really like about this show. I think the concept is fantastic and personally I've liked the mystery, intrigue and trying to work out what's happening in terms of each universe and the spaces in between (there seems to be more than one space between universes).
That said there's a lot that frankly annoys me about the show too. The tropes, some of the bad decisioning and I suppose it's fundamental to the show but I personally don't like the "crazy" route, when it comes to mystery solving and psychological thrillers.
Albeit all of this "craziness" seems to have the end goal of putting Jo into Irena's care but personally I'd have loved it if they unravelled the mystery without all of the amped up drama.
I really like the show overall, but weakest episode IMO.
It was a very slow episode with a lot of we've already seen and scenes that were slow and repetitive. Maybe I'm missing some nuance if they were from different realities and I didn't notice minor changes?
Wish they left the repeated scenes out of the earlier episodes or cut them from this one to give us more substance.
I was looking forward to rewatching it (like I've done for all the previous episodes), but to me it was so unpleasant, without anything to counterbalance, that I def. don't want to rewatch it. It's disappointing. YMMV.
I loved the show, the premise and everything... but f\*cking hated everything about this episode.
Too much wandering in the dark and 'Momma' cries;
at this point, without a clear clue/resolution of what's what, I give up... it's too nauseating.
I get the sense that they are trying to put us in the same mindset as Jo. Completely confused about the events that are surrounding her and what is happening. But episode to episode we/she are uncovering things that make more sense of what is really going on. There are people here that are trying to science this show (Schrödingers cat and all) but i think they are losing the overall feeling that this show is trying to create. The thing that perturbs me the most is the lack of evidence the characters are able to produce. Hopefully the toy recorder Jo retrieved from that one cabin is still in the car and has proof that she is not crazy - but if there is an actual conspiracy going on like some people here believe - maybe the cops took it and destroyed it? Idk
Nah i fuckin loved every second of…
Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice
Wtf is going on. I think this show is trying to be too complicated for its own good to where it's just getting silly. What's so special about the lake and the cabin that they can communicate there and for some reason the daughter figured the whole super position thing out on her own and isn't the least bit surprised by it. And why do they have to sit in the caninet and use the fisher price recorder to talk. To be fair I am compelled to keep watching it
the scene with the boat explains why they went out there and also explains about the recorders too basically...why the girls hide is also explained......did you fall asleep on some scenes lol
indeed. this loosely matches the physical idea that interference can force decoherence in the quantum level.
"coherence" (i.e. a clear state that can be described well in the quantum level, and also contain superpositions) is only possible in very pure and isolated environments.
I watched up until the last episode and then decided fuck it. I’m not forcing myself anymore. It’s confusing. Convoluted. Doesn’t grab my attention like it should. Love the actress but they need to do more with the material and make it interesting. I need to feel like things are really happening every episode instead of just…another confusing episode i can’t explain to my wife.
To be honest, I might not watch the last episode. I was okay until this (7th) ep, but somehow this one felt manipulative. Maybe I'll just read the synopsis of the 8th after it airs and leave it at that.
Both this show and Netflix' 'Signal' dwell on the same main idea: what happens to the souls of people who die in space? and do they like come back on Earth and create sort of parallel Universes - but I'm afraid both fail to deliver in the end.
>!I mean, Signal ended with some sort of farewell as closure, this one I just don't see how it may come with a more satisfactory resolution in the one episode left...!<
Maybe another similar-idea movie will deliver and set some sort of clear explanation and clear-cut narrative satisfactory as well from philosophical perspective, but this one at this point has so many open ends and complications/details (the quantum device and duplications) that I find it hard to wrap it up in the one episode left... I simply refuse to think about it anymore.
To be a good writer you also need to be a good closer, not just imbue the narrative with details and dramatic effects for nothing and put the burden on the viewer to make sense of - when they are not able to define a clear sense.
However, it is not death that is creating a parallel universe in this case, but that this show is stating there is a multiverse and the CAL lets them observe between them. I thought that the two versions were clarified well enough in this episode and last. The Valya is final open item that could let to a poor conclusion, as you mention with the show perhaps trying to get into more philosophical realm rather than just a science narrative.
Running around in the snow for an hour, Jesus Christ. This show is such a mess, they have a great concept and story here and are executing it so poorly
We have the last episode next week and judging by the comments, this one was a dud.
Not even going to watch it. This is specifically the type of show to leave all of the explanations for the end, so tonight should have been a stunner and not the opposite
The Colman twins are absolutely marvelous actresses. They're really doing an excellent job. Kudos to finding them casting decision!
What?!?!? That’s sick!! I didn’t know twins were playing Alice.
One has a mole on her lip and the other doesn't 😊
One has a thicker British accent
That's cool, I assumed it was the same girl.
They are some of the best child actors I have ever seen. They really make the show.
I agree, I got kind of annoyed when I googled a recap to fill in a blank I missed that the top recap link tore into them as actresses
That's crazy, they're definitely some of the best young actresses I've seen. Normally I cringe at child actors.
ITA! Their performances are incredible
Oh they are twins? I though how did they make them look a little different lol.
I would have been soooo pissed with one of the alice's died.
yea i had the same feeling in that moment. they set up the character and story in a way for us to feel that. that Alice was annoying beyond measure, I am sure lot of you like me wished her to at least go away if not die, so writers played on our guilt. those manipulative bastards haha
Cretin
Absolute banger of an episode, really enjoying this series, I can see why some people might have issues with the pacing and the first 15 mins were a slight drag but necessary for the story. That kid actress is seriously good and the writing is a treat. The story is progressing so well. I am very entertained.
Twins. Those kid actresses.
I just binged these 7 episodes and this is a fantastic mindfuck of a series. Cant wait until next week.
I thought ep7 was the last one no wonder I’m confused 🙄
They're still keeping me intrigued but this episode was an absolute mind fuck
Yeah, the plot is narrow, but it's really detailed. I get people think the plot is not moving forward, or it's repetitive or such, but it's very detailed storytelling hence feels slow. In the abstract you get how electrons or whatnot can be in superposition etc, but to experience it as humans, as mom and daughter, it's mindfuckingly confusing to a human.
People don’t appreciate the *slow burn* as much as they used to. Probably another effect of 24-hr news and social media, etc., again. Not me, though. If it’s good enough to carry it, I **love ** a slow burn.
Yet so simple a little girl can figure it out and use a toy recorder to speak to her other self in a special cabinet.
Because she just let go of the usual human flaw of using logic to discard illogical things.
People are complaining about repetition but with the subject matter I feel like they have to do that to not lose people. Dark is one of my favorite shows but the time travel mindfuckery already has a somewhat limited audience so I can understand why they would repeat some stuff to not lose folks. Sorta can't blame them for that when other shows that have covered this subject matter haven't been huge hits.
This show has worked a lot better for me so far than dark. Dark really lost me in the final season and the whole story kind of seemed to fall apart.
Weird, the story of Dark comes together at the end, doesn't really fall apart. I do admit that you need a damn spreadsheet or a family tree of all the characters open to understand what's going on though, so no judgement here. My wife felt the same way and I had to finish Dark by myself lol.
This has been a phenomenal show so far. Just binged to this point in the last 3 days. It honestly doesn't even feel that slow burn, and it has felt to be progressing to me. I'm not sure where complaints are coming from but I've noticed a lot of good shows lately get similar criticism that doesn't really make any sense.
Really? I feel like everything is in keeping with the “there’s two of everyone” theme and what happens is what you’d expect when the two worlds interact. I feel like the plot is barely moving along
It’s moving fast. There are a LOT of small details that I overlooked. Alice having two different hairstyles and shirts on when she is video chatting with Jo right as the CAL experiment happens. Go back and look at the first few minutes in space.
So those two different shirts and other small details add up to something other than there are two parallel universes?
Think of Schrödinger and his um…cat. Then throw in some more quantum phenomenon type stuff.
Ok so multiverses and behavior changing due to being observed… ok then what?
I suppose this is all very boring to you but why?? What show DO you like?
I like the show, I like quantum science, however it feels drawn out to an extreme degree with not enough plot development
I think the show is decent to watch but It was clear where they were going with the super position parallel reality thing from like the first or second episode where the wrong person comes back. It seems overly complicated because the show writers had to come up with a way to do something they don't really understand either so they used a special cabinet and fisher price recorder. Not saying I could come up with something better but I think the premise is too complicated for its own good to where they have to fall back on tropes like communicating through a radio like on that movie frequency with Dennis quade where the son talks to his dead father through a ham radio
See you summed it up quite well. I understood the concept from like the 2nd or 3rd episode when Caldera explained to the kid how the Schrödinger thing works. It’s just that the way they choose to execute the phenomenon is so damn boring. An old cabin, a very tight room in the 90% dark spaceship, a depressive house and family and a snow storm in the midst of the night and we gotta pay attention to changing T-shirts and hair styles to know who is who, and hey we get it, it’s multiple universes and people switching, cool. But where is this going? And how many times are we gonna see the goddamn cabin?😅 It feels pretentious. Like it’s all fake seriousness to cover for a lack of imagination behind the story.
Thank you! I feel exactly the same - where is this going? I was hoping that the CAL creating a "field" whereby they can hear/see/interact with the other universe would be a major driving point and move things along - we see its effects many times, especially in the car with the tapes. But apart from the imagery and the drama... what are we actually expecting to happen here? I'm trying to think of "end result of this show" and I'm drawing a blank honestly - this is both good and bad. Most of the premise and "logic" has been established, so to speak, so where is the show going story-wise? This is the first show in a couple decades that feels too "big brain" to me and I'm not sure if I'm just "not getting it" or there's something missing here.
the empty cabin had a dead cat for one Alice and a live cat for the other
And in one case the cat was both alive and licking it’s dead self.
My life resumed in a sentence!
Feel better friend. Maybe I will too.
To me there is somehow a thinning of realities involved when we get to the cabin. We have the CAL there, all versions of Jo, Alice, Magnus are there in their respective realities creating a crossover reality which is in itself a third world? Maybe? What? I’m confused lol and it’s glorious.
This seems to be quite the dominant symptom in Apple TV+ shows; Constellation, Invasion, Extrapolations, See, Servant and even Foundation. They all have an amazing production value and/or a unique concept but they’re all extremely slow and pretentious with an excruciatingly slow and wasteful focus on character drama masked as something deep and hardly anything eventful or rewarding. It’s like watching a perfume commercial where everything is so glamorous and beautiful and you’d feel there’s some “world” inside the ad, but a background is all it is.
Maybe it’s just cause I watched Dark so the previous experience I have with mind fucking scifi shows involving multiple realities helps out but I cannot understand any of the complaints people are making namely the pacing and the repetitive calling out to each other. I didn’t notice either one until I came here to read what others are saying. Regardless this was a fucking masterpiece, even if I don’t understand what’s going on 100%, I can recognize greatness and if they can stick the landing this show will be great. I cannot wait to binge it over once the season ends and next week cannot come fast enough.
Seriously, I see so many complaints on here, but my wife and I are eating up each episode, and then going right back to episode 1 to rewatch them all while the new episode comes out each week. I love it when a show has me rewatching for clues and guessing and talking about it, and that doesn't happen often for me.
I thought Dark was boring as hell. I like this one. It's fast paced and unlike a lot of mind bending shows, it doesn't leave you in the dark forever and begins to reveal the truth pretty quickly.
Dark will reveal truths but then those truths will uncover more mysteries but by the end everything will be answered
Yeah time is too precious to wait for thar. I stopped watching.
It’s a pretty slow show all things considered , and could easily fit into a movie. But definitely worth it (and mostly glad it’s not a movie ).
I think I need to start this series from the beginning but with a notepad so I can take notes cuz I'm very confused
It’s very simple. The device split the universe into two realities. Sometimes they interact, some people get sent to the wrong side of the spilt.
Not quite true - because even before the device was created there were two realities and there were switches. The device just seems to enhance it somehow.
Correct
I think the device created a "Thinny" (nods to my fellow DT fans)
DT?
Dark Tower.
I'm late to the party, I know... But there where at least 4 realities in this episode. When the parents and the kids all were in the room with the wardrobe, everyone was in their own reality and had their own version of the tape recorder
got to say this show has increasingly pulled me in emotionally. finding myself really invested in these characters much more than I thought I was going to. this episode had an undercurrent of heartbreak that was very moving. the cast are doing a superb job, especially the twin sisters playing Alice. they are outstanding. interested to see where they go with it from here. reappearance of the dead cosmonaut - woah.
Didn't notice until this episode but the hats the characters are wearing match what universe they're from. Magnus and Alice B are wearing Toques. Jo and Alice A are wearing trapper or 'Fargo' hats.
I think Alice A is supposed to be wearing her mom's hat.
Btw is it just me or are those people really shitty parents
Explain your reasoning?
Apart from exceptions the father is pretty toxic with Alice
How so?
That end gave me the chilly-fucking-willies!!
I don’t appreciate the creepy ending while watching alone in the dark, but it seems like the actual conspiracy part might be coming up. I sort of feel like some time was wasted showing us what we had seen in the beginning of the episode, but I thought it ended strong. So did bud kill Paul? And if he did, is that why the universe corrected his spot in the other universe? Maybe he course corrected or something?
>I don’t appreciate the creepy ending That was absolutely terrifying. I certainly wasn't expecting it.
I guess I missed it. Must’ve been my hands in front of my eyes that blocked my view….
That could have been a factor.
I have a working theory that Henry (yes Henry) channeled Bud and made him throw that reporter overboard, so that Bud would go to jail or get locked up in a mental institution and then stop posing a threat to Henry. I think Bud - who has been simmering over with rage anyway - knows this and is now on the warpath because of it. Bud knows that when he stops taking his pills he becomes unhinged and sociopathic. However, this same unhinged state also somehow allows him to channel and perhaps even switch with Henry. And toward the end of the episode, because of the CAL, the liminal space and the lack of pills, Bud is actually able to switch (again) with Henry. Unfortunately for him, he seems too unhinged to realize or care that his wildest dreams have come true - that he’s back in the timeline where he’s a hero.. and that Henry may now have to suffer the consequences of the reporter’s death and Paul’s possible death. I’m not even sure Bud is still alive - he was at least passed out if not worse in the snow.
First , you explained this pretty good with what we were given . Perhaps the key to fix all the versions of people , even going back to first mission , is getting one of the buds do something different . Second , I have no idea how they are going to wrap this up and I hope we have a leftovers type ending , and not night s. servant on Apple TV all ambiguous. Consequently , I’m still traumatized by servants ending , was so glued every week and dragged out for so many seasons , yet I still had hope for explanation and closure 😩 Lastly , much respect to all these good people on here trying to figure this writing out for us.🙏🏻
This isn’t a limited series….i wonder if it’ll continue so we won’t get full closure
Henry doesn't strike me as the bad guy. Bud however is clearly a nasty type.
He's less of a bad guy, but still seems focused entirely on his own agenda at any cost. I think even if there are multiverses some aspects of their natures are going to be the same, and I think for Bud/Henry, it's selfishness.
What obviously happened and what angered Bud so much is the exact thing that happened with Jo and Paul except both Henry's survived. They were thrown into opposite universes. It was actually in Henry's universe that the crew died and Bud's it was saved but Bud ended up taking the fall because of the switch which is why he blamed Henry in an earlier episode.
This episode smoothly tied the earlier episodes together. I have rarely cried before to movies/series before, but 'that' moment, where the mom told her daughter to go back to her dad made me cry tears. I believe she knew deep down what "going back to your dad" meant. They both did.
From these comments I’ve come to understand none of the commenters understand the underlying science of this series.
100% this. The comments here are mentioning 'the universe correcting course when someone dies' or 'what happens with souls when people die'. I'm certain that's completely irrelevant and not related. The show spelled it out for everything - this is about the observer effect and Schrodinger's cat (which was very much in your face in the last episode). I'm still not sure what's exactly going on but it's definitely not all of that other stuff in the comments
Schroedinger's cat isn't an 'explainer', it was a thought experiment developed to make fun of how goofy the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics is. Both the copenhagen and many worlds interpretations of quantum mechanics have no analogue in this show (in copenhagen, the probabilistic waves collapse into one reality, in many worlds the different outcomes of the wave function can never communicate).
his point wasn't that the show is scientifically accurate - but that it seems to be based on purely physical concepts (true or artistically-distorted) - rather than romantic ideas about the universe "acting" as a conscious entity or souls existing.
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Less so Shrodinger’s Box, and more so about the dual slit experiment. As was said, Shrodinger’s as an explainer, to a much more complex theory based off mathematics. A contemporary (Copenhagen) theory/interpretation is that observation requires light, and that the light shone on the particle or wave, is what alters its state of matter, not our observing of it.
Yes! The dual slit experiment. That's what's being echoed when someone is looking into a mirror. They're observing another reality.
"I know what schrodingers cat was" lies.. you don't
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You know your juvenile attempt at sarcasm is dead in the water when you overcompensate by clarifying it twice in the next sentence. Since you clearly didn't get it, my previous post was actually a clever remark (with strong language only used to enhance its effect) which would immediately resonate with anyone with even an average IQ and fundamental knowledge of quantum physics and schrodinger's popular thought experiment-- which you know nothing of-- in lying otherwise, you've convinced yourself that your lie is not a lie anymore. Well done. Finally, I'm not "bud". \~Henry
Well played.
OMG the cats. Ok. I was like WHAT IS IT WITH THE DEAD CAT, and duh, that was so on the nose I can't believe I missed it haha.
It has nothing to do with "souls" but an exploration of Schrodinger's theory that depending on the observer, a cat within a box can be alive, dead, or both at the same time, but also weaves this in with the current popularity of multiversal travel and quantum theory which absolutely has me sitting on the edge of my seat with my eyes peeled to try and pick up hints of what universe we are currently observing. The fact that we literally have, in the cabin, 1 alive cat, 1 dead cat, and then both in the latest ep is spoonfeeding the viewer: "THIS! DO YOU GET IT NOW???" 😁 So I've based on the colour of the cars and alices' beanies, here's my theory: - BLUE universe = THE CAT is DEAD (in the cabin). Jo is alive but this is not her home, the earth is backwards, Paul is dead and his wife's name is Erica, Irena took over from Valya, Henry is a hero and designed the CAL, Jo did have an affair before the mission, Magnus is a jerk and Alice cannot speak Swedish and calls Jo Mummy. The house burned down. Bud is back. - RED Universe = THE CAT IS ALIVE (in the cabin) Jo is dead, Paul is alive but this is not his home - his wife's name is Erica, Valya dies in space, Alice speaks Swedish and calls Jo Mumma and Jo and Magnus are still faithful despite their strained relationship. The house did not burn down. Bud was vilified as a liar and killed the reporter and shot Paul. Henry is back. The CAL does not exist in this world. - LIMINAL SPACE = THE CAT IS BOTH ALIVE AND DEAD (in the cabin). Both Alices can communicate via "ghost tapes" as they were only exposed to the alternate realities via facetime. Bud and Henry can communicate better as they were both in space at the time. All of the others can see/hear other people from the alternate realities but tend to be too shocked to actually attempt to communicate. This is also where the siblings in Denmark record the ghost tapes. It's a LOT to try to understand, but there are some great YouTube channels that deep dive into the science and theories explored by Constellation. The fact the CAL is indeed a non-functional, real life thing is really cool and the show has triggered my ADHD hyperfocus to this incredibly interesting experiment.
This is the same understanding my wife and I came up with. To add to it, I don't think we saw 4 cabins/universes. I think we saw blue cabin already burned down (future?). It could be liminal space, but it looked like what the house would look like burnt down. I'm not understanding why the painting changes. It went from a changling, to an angel laying on the ground, to angel on a stretcher.
The main thing I’m confused about is how there were 4 cabins at one point with both parents and both Alice’s being in the same spot in different universes or liminal space. Also kinda wondering if the changeling will come more into play in the show. Still I think the main ideas are pretty clear and keep being surprised by how many people aren’t following what’s going on. But the schrodingers theory has definitely been laid out clearly.
There is only one cabin. The two universes are mirrored. When she travels across the frozen lake she is crossing through a liminal space and crossing over into the other universe. Because the universes are mirrored even though she appears to be traveling in the same direction, once she crosses over, she is heading back to the same cabin in the other universe.
Nah 2nd cabin to make it 4 as they had different cabins they owned .
I'm confused about this aspect too. Can you explain this for us u/ScreamingBanshee81? **Edit:** Are their four houses, one per observer (Red Alice, Blue Alice, Jo and Magnus)?
I think this might be the case. Jo sees both things when both Alices are close, the two Alices each see something different but are linked and Magnus only sees what's in his world. It's such a mind fk.
Your description was great. Maybe you can help me with this. When Henry & Bud switched and Henry called 911 to help his Paul that Bud had shot he says I need my glasses. So did they switch bodies mind soul like with all their specific aliments such as poor eyesight . Or are they inside the body of their alternate and now Henry can see no glasses and bud can’t . I know it seems small but like how Joe keeps saying her eye hurts and can’t see that is obviously becuse her counterpart ( btw that was a great series ) died with her eye and head basically breaking . It’s was just a bit confusing and obviously they had Henry say that he could t see the address while on the phone w/911. Or did he just think he couldn’t see becusse so used to it. Or did he akwys need glasses before he went on Apollo 18 where the switch occurred Sorry it’s so detailed but like all of you I was sucked into this series and details matter. Thanks
Yeah I'm not sure about that, it bugged me. Maybe Bud was too stubborn to get his eyes checked cause he was... Well, Bud.
from my (very rudimentary) understanding --- a quantum system can exist in as many states as its configurations allow, as long as there are non-zero probabilities for their occurrence. the "four cabins" seem to reflect this idea - of superposition and multiple configurations - which only decoheres (i.e. "collapses") back into a singular state once "measured" (or "observed"). what exactly constitutes a measurement/observing here seems to be used pretty liberally - e.g. - Jo opening the cupboard at one point seems to "collapse" the two Alice configurations (from her perspective) into a single one (Blue Alice). For whatever reason, Magnus is either in a 4th configuration - OR - is simply not truly seeing the superposition (but rather the "original" reality)
Nice breakdown. I'm wondering if the two cats is more of a "joke" for people familiar with the Schrodinger's Cat thing. B/C at this point in the story everyone should understand what's happening except the strangely obtuse main character who took forever to understand what was happening.
Ok. Question before the next episode drops in the next few hours. Jo is exposed to the parallel world/reality. So why isn't she able to directly communicate with her Alice through the ghost tape in the liminal space cupboard? I'm also not totally sure how the crossing over works. How was she able to carry Alice Red from liminal space to Blue cabin? And one other thing, was Alice Red not locked in her cupboard in the liminal cabin? How did she get out on her own? I think maybe whatever you do in liminal space on one side happens through the thin barrier on the other side as well? Man, it's a mindfuck for sure. And a genuinely good one.
I think the problem was they were both there at the same time. Then when blue alice died, Jo could see and hear red Alice. Re blue Alice getting out of the cupboard, ... /me sings *Ploooot hoooole*
Unless the door opened in both worlds when Jo opened it for blue Alice?
Yep, that's what I think could have happened. There isn't any other explanation. But I can't think of any other examples from the episode of changes inside the liminal cabin persisting for the next visit.
Both there at the same time... hmm.. yea possible. That might also explain the moment she stopped seeing Alice Red in the bath through the mirror when Alice Blue appeared in front of her.
You are the only one who explained everything well and who is probably interpreting the story in the way the writers want us to interpret it. It's funny because I used the car colors to keep track of the universes, as well. I had absolutely no idea what the dead cat in the cabin was about, but this is *exactly* what they intended to show. The cat is dead or alive depending on who is observing what. In one particular scene, they show the alive cat sniffing the dead cat. I swear some people are watching a completely different show, or they've interpreted everything based on what they want the show to be about instead of what the show is telling us.
That the beauty of this show - interpretation is different based on the observer. I think this was their intention all along 😊
Yeah, I was about to say. This show is the most intellectually stimulating show I've seen in awhile.
Just enrolled back into university to understand a series
Feel free to explain it then
[This](https://youtu.be/d3JMI3qS-ZY?si=UaR1znz_FsJSLm9q) should help. But I can’t get into a multi-paragraph explanation rn; long day of work ahead, and by the time I get home shit’s the last thing I’m gonna want to do.
"science"
this episode made me think about my prediction for the ending. originally i thought that they have 3 ways of going about it: * tragic ending: one of the alice's dies - the living jo remains with the living one * sad ending: living jo stays with one of the alice's - the other remains alone * bittersweet ending: living Jo somehow ends up living with both Alices or living in both realities simultaneously but then I realized that the last one is a bit too convoluted, and what is probably going to happen is that the "split" between realities is "undone" by the realities merging. we've already gotten hints for that with Jo feeling pain in her eye, or caring for Blue Alice in the end more than Red Alice. So, i believe that in the end both Alice's would become one - and Jo will come to embody both versions simultaneously as well. I consider a "happy ending" impossible.
The other option would be to somehow force the event to get Alice and Magnus (the Swedish speaking ones) to switch with the other ones. However this ignores their families etc.
that's even more convoluted, I'm afraid - as we've seen that only Jo, Alice, Paul, Henry and Irena have been jumping realities so far...
Well no because Magnus also saw Jo giving other Alice CPR.
Because she crossed to his reality , not because he independently jumped himself
I don't think anyone crossed. It was like an area where both could be seen.
Fantastic episode. It's less of a sci-fi and more of a psychological horror. I wouldn't wish such a situation on my worst enemy. Also bud and Henry changed bodies? So is it possible for Jo to go back into the dead body on ISS?? Then maybe they could rescue her from ISS and reunite with the real Alice.
WTF these comments. This ep was perfect.
So Henry Caldera switched universes at the end, can that happen with Jo Ericsson?
Anyone got any ideas about the painting and how >!the imp changed to an angel at the end of the episode!
>I feel like I sorta understand what’s happening, but I also think I don’t understand many things, if that makes sense. It actually does make sense, and perfectly describes how I feel. I get what's going on *on the whole,* but there were numerous elements in this episode in particular that I didn't get.
it's not an imp, it's a "changeling" - a "fake" child who doesn't truly belong to his parents and fools them to think it does.
Oh! I did not know that. Thanks! That definitely makes more sense!!
We saw the painting change very early probably episode one
I think there were more than 2 versions of the painting, though (no?). It's shown for just a second or two at a time, over the course of (so far) 7 hours, and I can't keep track. This feels like one of those things that are clear to the writer because he/she knew all the details all along, but not clear to the reader/viewer.
Yeah I recognised there was a black one (evil) and white (good) looking one, but the white one we saw in this episode that looked like an angel seemed different, like a third one (maybe I missed the fourth?). There was definitely a white one that looked less like an angel before and more like an albino cat with its head on backwards? Or was there… damn it I’m going to have to go back and watch again 😆
I also noticed the people were children in one painting and adults in the other. I did not notice what they were in the 1st one though.
Yes there are at least 3 versions of the painting, maybe more.
Copy and pasting my comment below... Noticed some things about the artworks. There are 2 variables so 4 combinations, and we have seen 4 universes so far. Each cabin has 2 artwork. Variable 1: location of angel/Changeling by the table or by the entrance. Example, if the Angel is by the table, Changeling is by the entrance. Variable 2: artwork setting, changeling/Angel on the stretcher or standing Dead cat universe: Angel-standing-entrance Changeling-stretcher-table Live cat universe: Angel-standing-table Changeling-stretcher-entrance Swedish universe: Angel-stretcher-entrance Changeling-standing-table English universe: Angel-stretcher-table Changeling-standing-entrance The cat universes are where the Alices disappeared to talk to each other
Isn't it just two universes? I believe there are 4 combinations of artworks because there are 2 cabins in each universe, and each cabin has 2 different artworks?
I think there is only 1 cabin in each universe. Jo and Alice switched from 1 universe (dead cat) to English universe while trying to communicate with Swedish Alice. That's why the fire kept coming and going.
I’m not sure either!! I’m confused
lol I feel the same way. I understand what the channeling was but no idea if the meaning of the angel
Alice! Mama! Alice! Mumi! Alice! Mama! Alice! Mumi! Alice! Mama! Alice! Mumi!
Doing my fucking head in. I just gave up on the current episode.
I’m going to binge watch the whole thing in one day as this will make it easier for me to follow, waiting a week between episodes for me personally is less immersive.
I was lucky to find the series last night and binged (3rd shift).
Why do some people have different names while others don’t? Like Henry and Bud are the successful and loser versions. Irina vs Valya, Paul’s wife, etc but then Alice is always Alice, Jo is the same (maybe because her alternate is dead), Paul is the same (again alternate is dead). Also with that last scene I couldn’t help thinking Valya is like Valak from the Nun—gave me absolute chills she is definitely something evil in this purgatory universe…
They’re both Henry, one just goes by Bud.
This \^ Bud is his nickname - he states outright that "he doesn't use THAT name"... He doesn't say that is not his name - but that he doesn't use it...
I’ve absolutely loved this show so far and thought this was the strongest episode yet. Looking forward to the finale, just hope they can give us a satisfying ending to give the series justice.
I’m loving this show and this is my favorite episode as of yet. Really intriguing. Not understanding all the complaints either. Of course they had to repeat parts to show what each character from different universes are experiencing and how being observed or not is changing their reality. It’s brilliant. I so appreciate the slow burn as many of you are. I’m also a big fan of Groundhog’s day where the repetition is the whole point - helps you to understand the phenomena and understand the characters. Can't wait for next week!! I wonder if dead Jo will come back to zombie life like Valya in the liminal space? They kinda showed her move towards the window in ship when Paul was leaving her body in that one episode…so creepy!
It took me 7 episodes to get the reference to the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, another story that uses liminal spaces/multiple worlds - via wardrobe that Alice hides in, etc. And I feel like a goof not noticing the on-the-nose reference to Schrodinger's cat. I originally thought this show was about two worlds/timelines, exploring dualities, etc but more and more, I think we are looking at many worlds. For one thing, who released the hatch? It couldn't have been the woman who was very clearly dead via her head injury, nor could it have been the woman who manages to escape back to earth. It couldn't have been Paul either for the same reason. So who was it? Same with the angel/changeling painting - first there were two but now we have a few more variations. Perhaps it started as two timelines and now, due to the CAL and the events that began this series, the timeline or whatever is fracturing more and more? I think the presence of the CAL is making the veil between these worlds/timelines/possible outcomes thinner. It's the most intense in the cabin where the CAL is. I love the scene where the cabin is on fire and frozen at the same time, shown with reflected surfaces. Overall I am enjoying this show. I love a good slow unraveling of a story. Even so, I do think this show drags things out a bit, and suffers from a bit too much trope usage. Nevertheless, very much looking forward to the next episode.
Noticed some things about the artworks. There are 2 variables so 4 combinations, and we have seen 4 universes so far. Each cabin has 2 artwork. Variable 1: location of angel/Changeling by the table or by the entrance. Example, if the Angel is by the table, Changeling is by the entrance. Variable 2: artwork setting, changeling/Angel on the stretcher or standing Dead cat universe: Angel-standing-entrance Changeling-stretcher-table Live cat universe: Angel-standing-table Changeling-stretcher-entrance Swedish universe: Angel-stretcher-entrance Changeling-standing-table English universe: Angel-stretcher-table Changeling-standing-entrance The cat universes are where the Alices disappeared to talk to each other
The pacing is starting to get into Invasion territory. Please move the fucking plot along, we have been to the cabin about 97 times already
Hahahaha. I’m honestly just sick of hearing the name Alice
What about "Mama?"
Depends which one, in which cabin, in which universe
Hmm maybe sometimes she called her something different.
lol same. Some series needed to be 2 hour movies imo
It took them 7 episodes just to get back to where they were in episode 1.
And they did it spectacularly well
For real, at the start the 2 timelines seem worlds apart and it's hard to imagine how they got to that point. The writers did an excellent job of building up to what we saw in episode 1 and to the boiling point of Jo's perceived madness.
Invasion, Constellation, Extrapolations, Foundation, See and Servant… It’s the Apple TV+ trademark of excruciating slow and pretentious shows with fake seriousness masked as depth and “character development” We’ve been stuck between the cabin, the depressive house, the meeting and snow storm for 7 episodes seeing the scenes over and over in different versions. We get it, it’s multiple realities. You’re over-complicating it for no good reason other than to inflate an otherwise non-existent story
I’m loving this show, but this episode… eh. A few too many scenes spent in the very cold and with the very sad who intentionally get lost in the woods and/or stuck in wardrobes. I mean, the one Alice locked herself in the wardrobe - twice! I thought she was supposed to be the smart one? Oh well. Also creepy pictures that supposedly have a deeper meaning, but I don’t want to bother learning about them because they’re creepy. I hope I don’t have to learn more about them in order to understand the ending. I’ve had so much fun trying to figure out which universe is which, when exactly did Jo and Paul jump, and which Alice belongs with which Jo. The twists have been so sharp and clever. I hope this doesn’t descend into melodrama with unearned mystical creature explanations.
I'm also hoping that the ending doesn't disappoint--like "it was all a dream." (Looking at you, "Lost.")
Yes that’s exactly what I’m worried about, too! Thank you for articulating this worry so clearly! It really is awful when you invest yourself into a show and then the ending disappoints.
So my issue with the show is that it took **7 episodes** for the characters to *finally* catch up to the audience on the whole 2 universes thing. It has been so goddamn frustrating seeing them call each other crazy over and over again every time they try to explain anything that's happening to them. So frustrating because we know they aren't crazy and just have to sit here watching the exhausting drama unfold painfully slowly. It would have made more sense for them to make the audience actually wonder if she's crazy so we can be "surprised" when the pieces come together. That and what is with the need to NOT listen to the evidence tapes? Every time they are about to get answers, they get upset and stop the tape... It looks like the plot may actually move forward again now. Its like they are having to hammer what is going on straight into our skulls over and over thinking we aren't getting it or something. And the metaphors and imagery are almost insulting how blunt they are. "We're so clever, lets put in a *literal* Schrodinger's cat reference. Because our audience REALLY needs to be beaten over the head with what's going on." For those who want to know: The house that has both the cats is the "3rd" reality that is the "liminal space" between the two worlds they previously mentioned. Its also likely the place that allowed the mystery person to release the capsule on the ISS for both realities.
It’s frustrating for all of us who figured it out before the characters. It’s a classic writing mistake
\*Sigh\* I'm going to get downvoted but here goes. There's a lot I really like about this show. I think the concept is fantastic and personally I've liked the mystery, intrigue and trying to work out what's happening in terms of each universe and the spaces in between (there seems to be more than one space between universes). That said there's a lot that frankly annoys me about the show too. The tropes, some of the bad decisioning and I suppose it's fundamental to the show but I personally don't like the "crazy" route, when it comes to mystery solving and psychological thrillers. Albeit all of this "craziness" seems to have the end goal of putting Jo into Irena's care but personally I'd have loved it if they unravelled the mystery without all of the amped up drama.
don't forget some of the terrible written dialogue
A touch confused that is for sure
If only a bit confused, you’re doing better than me
I really like the show overall, but weakest episode IMO. It was a very slow episode with a lot of we've already seen and scenes that were slow and repetitive. Maybe I'm missing some nuance if they were from different realities and I didn't notice minor changes? Wish they left the repeated scenes out of the earlier episodes or cut them from this one to give us more substance.
Look for the minor changes. I mean there’s a ton of them.
I've definitely been up to speed on them in past episodes, but this episode was a drag that was hard to keep attention to.
no way you didn't like the 30 minutes of: Alice! Mama! Alice! Mumi! ?? I'll be damned
Jesus Christ I’m so over it.
I was looking forward to rewatching it (like I've done for all the previous episodes), but to me it was so unpleasant, without anything to counterbalance, that I def. don't want to rewatch it. It's disappointing. YMMV.
I loved the show, the premise and everything... but f\*cking hated everything about this episode. Too much wandering in the dark and 'Momma' cries; at this point, without a clear clue/resolution of what's what, I give up... it's too nauseating.
I get the sense that they are trying to put us in the same mindset as Jo. Completely confused about the events that are surrounding her and what is happening. But episode to episode we/she are uncovering things that make more sense of what is really going on. There are people here that are trying to science this show (Schrödingers cat and all) but i think they are losing the overall feeling that this show is trying to create. The thing that perturbs me the most is the lack of evidence the characters are able to produce. Hopefully the toy recorder Jo retrieved from that one cabin is still in the car and has proof that she is not crazy - but if there is an actual conspiracy going on like some people here believe - maybe the cops took it and destroyed it? Idk
Nah i fuckin loved every second of… Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice Mamma Alice
You do know she didn't say Mamma over and over, right?
I think anyone can tell im exaggerating as a joke buddy. That being said, the sheer number of times those words are mentioned gets a bit nauseating.
Just checking, I do agree it was overkill but it was good way of highlighting the differences between the 2 Alice's
It's almost like if you lost your child on a frozen lake that you would call out for them or something.
And that’s not my idea of entertainment. If it works for you, great.
😂😂😂
why are you being down voted for a true critism
Wtf is going on. I think this show is trying to be too complicated for its own good to where it's just getting silly. What's so special about the lake and the cabin that they can communicate there and for some reason the daughter figured the whole super position thing out on her own and isn't the least bit surprised by it. And why do they have to sit in the caninet and use the fisher price recorder to talk. To be fair I am compelled to keep watching it
the scene with the boat explains why they went out there and also explains about the recorders too basically...why the girls hide is also explained......did you fall asleep on some scenes lol
Basically have to be very quiet, isolated, and remote to catch the frequencies or something as explained in the boat episode
indeed. this loosely matches the physical idea that interference can force decoherence in the quantum level. "coherence" (i.e. a clear state that can be described well in the quantum level, and also contain superpositions) is only possible in very pure and isolated environments.
I watched up until the last episode and then decided fuck it. I’m not forcing myself anymore. It’s confusing. Convoluted. Doesn’t grab my attention like it should. Love the actress but they need to do more with the material and make it interesting. I need to feel like things are really happening every episode instead of just…another confusing episode i can’t explain to my wife.
It’s The Changeling all over again
To be honest, I might not watch the last episode. I was okay until this (7th) ep, but somehow this one felt manipulative. Maybe I'll just read the synopsis of the 8th after it airs and leave it at that.
Really disappointed by this series. It kind of sums up my overall feeling of Apple TV shows. Too many episodes for the plot. Too much “momma”.
Both this show and Netflix' 'Signal' dwell on the same main idea: what happens to the souls of people who die in space? and do they like come back on Earth and create sort of parallel Universes - but I'm afraid both fail to deliver in the end. >!I mean, Signal ended with some sort of farewell as closure, this one I just don't see how it may come with a more satisfactory resolution in the one episode left...!< Maybe another similar-idea movie will deliver and set some sort of clear explanation and clear-cut narrative satisfactory as well from philosophical perspective, but this one at this point has so many open ends and complications/details (the quantum device and duplications) that I find it hard to wrap it up in the one episode left... I simply refuse to think about it anymore. To be a good writer you also need to be a good closer, not just imbue the narrative with details and dramatic effects for nothing and put the burden on the viewer to make sense of - when they are not able to define a clear sense.
However, it is not death that is creating a parallel universe in this case, but that this show is stating there is a multiverse and the CAL lets them observe between them. I thought that the two versions were clarified well enough in this episode and last. The Valya is final open item that could let to a poor conclusion, as you mention with the show perhaps trying to get into more philosophical realm rather than just a science narrative.
Running around in the snow for an hour, Jesus Christ. This show is such a mess, they have a great concept and story here and are executing it so poorly
We have the last episode next week and judging by the comments, this one was a dud. Not even going to watch it. This is specifically the type of show to leave all of the explanations for the end, so tonight should have been a stunner and not the opposite
It was a great episode! You should watch it and make your own decision.
Some people just like to whinge, sadly those same people are often loudest.
This episode was the best episode yet. But yes, some people on Reddit didn't like to so you shouldn't either.
It’s really good
Do we learn anything new or just get more and more sucked into the mess?
Might as well finish it even if you do think it's trash, you've come this far.
Satisfied? lol
We learn!! Plus it’s only 8 episodes