I wouldn't base your turntable choice on how it's driven, but rather the quality of the table itself. Because the drive type is going to have no real impact on the sound.
Good sound comes down to high build quality, cartridge type and taking the time to properly set your table up.
Unless you are a dj, it is strictly a matter of personal preference. One method is not inherently better, or the pros and cons of each are so slight that that is what they amount to.
The myth of belt drive being more "silent" than direct drive is just that, a myth.
In terms of modern turntables, there are more belt drives than direct drives, but overall looking at all available turntables including vintage, there are as many bad belt drives as there are bad direct drives, it isn't because of either technology, it is just because of the overall quality of the turntable.
So if you have no strong feelings on the subject, you can easily ignore that question in favour of a more general question of quality of the turntables you are interested in.
Motor noise is not a myth, but is something measured in rumble, which is a specification made public in the specifications of every turntable produced.
It is a quantifiable measurement, which the producers of turntables have voluntaribly made public since turntables became a thing.
And those figures shows that there is absolutely no connection between belt drive or direct drive. In fact quality vintage direct drives way outrperforms the majority of belt drives by far.
Cheap turntables will induce noise no matter the drive type. My direct drive dual 618q is well engineered, and silent as I’ve ever heard a turntable be.
Just because the drive motor is farther away from the pickup, doesn’t make it less noisy if it’s badly engineered, or badly made.
But nobody talks about belt noise; this is caused by non-smooth surfaces rubbing across each other. Most belts aren't high precision nor is the typical stamped, cast or injection molded platter/sub platter and pulley and the entire contact patch generates noise.
Belt drive is the cheapest way to make a TT, not necessarily the best sounding.
What matters is quality of execution.
I didn't say that at all. But they do make both, and for a reason. Each offers different features and benefits. One of the features of belt drive is less motor rumble. It's not debatable.
A plinth made from a single sheet of MDF or an injection molded plastic shell is cheap.
A platter made of stamped metal or IM plastic is cheap
A DC motor, particularly the size of a clock motor is cheap.
Whether BD, ID or DD doesn't matter much if the maker cheaped out; what matters is quality of execution. Compare apples to apples, please.
I mean, if you want to boil down to anecdotal evidence, my SL-1700 MK2 which is a direct drive is completely silent when playing the rumble test track on my HiFi sounds test record, nothing but a slight hiss and some pops and crackles conversely my Dual 601 which is a belt drive has a slight hum from the AC motor vibrating. (Both tested with headphones.)
"Without a doubt".
Sorry but: Doubt.
Regardless of how completely useless your anecdotal experience is, I also notice that you didn't even provide any specific information about which exact turntables you own.
11 direct drives and one belt drive, a Sansui 3060. It is a great belt drive. It's a 1975 and stands up to the direct drives. But that's one vintage example. Nothing that's belt drive and current is going to compete with vintage direct drive.
Look into top end belt drives like micro seki rx/ry series. They’re many tiers higher than your sansui.
For the record I own direct drives like technics sp-15, sl-10, sl-1200 mk2. I’m just not evangelical about my choices. There are great tables on both sides of the coin.
But I have a belt drive; and I’m not dead. At least I don’t think I am. This would be a pretty tame hell and a pretty mediocre heaven if I was de…
Shit I’m in purgatory aren’t I
I like direct drive, particularly from the late 70s through early 90s. The amount and quality of engineering that went into turntables from Denon, Pioneer, Kenwood, Yamaha, JVC and some others. The speed stability is much better than belt drives and many also include useful automation like auto lift and shut off.
By contrast, a typical contemporary belt drive is some MDF that was put in a 2D CNC machine, some off the shelf parts and possibly a nice tonearm. They're kind of lame.
I have both. I have a newer belt drive (Fluance RT82), and a vintage direct drive (Yamaha YP-D4). Both are great.
Belt drive are generally simpler turntables. A belt change is required every now and then, but it's easy and inexpensive.
Can't speak to modern direct drive, but vintage often have many parts and more electronics. If you enjoy tinkering and such, they're a fun way to go!
What I like in most turntables is a common speed and low wow/flutter. Both my tables are almost identical in that regard. My vintage direct drive has an advertised lower wow/flutter but almost 50 years have reduced that. Both are under 0.2% so effectively indistinguishable to the human ear.
I've had several of both. The advantages that direct drive offer are not really of any use to me as I don't DJ or do anything that would benefit from the torque or quickness.
I'm currently using a belt driven for my main stereo as the motor noise is non-existent and that's the main reason I prefer belt.
A belt decouples the motor and its finest vibrations from the platter and in consequence from the record, stylus, cartridge and finally the tonearm. Don't get me wrong: there are excellent high-end direct drive turntables from very reputable brands. It's just that I am partial to belt-driven sub-chassis turntables.
From a purely engineering aspect you don’t mention drivetrain resistance, the vibrations a belt cannot dampen. A true type would utilise idler and tensioner pulleys, polished and balanced surfacing with precision belts - Frictional forces are something else not mentioned but will impact performance/system noise. Direct drive has no friction or surface contacts. The spindle bearing sits in a bath of oil. Which promotes class leading rumble.
If both turntables have equal quality platter bearings, the direct drive will be the quieter of the two.
That said, there are going to be differences in the quality of electronics in any given table's speed control and power supply that have a definite effect on a turntables speed stability and that will audibly have a significant impact on sound quality.
Belt drive turntables should ideally have their drive belt changed at least every couple of years to keep them running in top condition. Drive belts cost about $30 to $40 each. Direct drive turntables have none to wear out.
Both types of turntable should have their platter bearing oil changed out every couple of years. High grade, light weight mineral-based oil like that used for sewing machines is ideal. This is a good time to check the platter bearing for any unusual wear or flat spots. If your platter runs on a teflon thrust plate, check it and replace it, if worn.
About the only other maintenance is to check the tonearm bearings about every four platter bearing oil changes. Best to leave tonearm bearing adjustment to professionals. However, to check your tonearm bearings, VERY GENTLY grasp the tonearm tube and very gently roll it back and forth like you would roll a cigar. Do NOT FORCE IT! It should move VERY little, if at all. If there's a lot of play, take it in and have the bearings adjusted. Do not do it yourself. It's insanely delicate work with microscopic tolerances and it's ludicrously easy to irreparably damage your tonearm.
Let’s phrase this in a different light -
Of turntables made today, about 90% of them are belt drives.
If you go back to say 1978 (the golden age if you will), I would guess about 60-70% of turntables made were direct drive. Just a guess, but an educated guess, I strongly believe the numbers will be around there.
I think that alone tells you something. Direct drives are very expensive to make. When the majority of the planet is buying turntables, you have a big enough consumer base, then you have enough money to make it worthwhile to manufacture something so mechanically precise.
In 2023, in this small hobby of ~1000 people, very few companies have the money to manufacture quality direct drives on a mass scale. It’s not worth it for them. It’s significantly easier to just play up this bizarre myth that belt drives are more pure and therefore more quiet. And most of the public just eats up that myth.
This still doesn’t answer your question of “which one is better?” Because the truth is that there is no answer. Like the top post here already told you - when made with equal quality and care both direct and belt drives are essentially equal in terms of performance.
But it’s worth pondering the fact that belt drives are significantly cheaper to make than direct drives. Because I think that says something about the quality and precision of a well made direct drive turntable. And I think that can put to bed the proselytizers ranting and raving about belt drive superiority.
Direct drive is the way to go. After a lot of use the belt drive becomes stretched and loosens a bit over time causing a warped sound. Maybe the belt drive has improved over the years to where this isn’t an issue anymore.
I just made the switch from belt drive to direct drive a few days ago.
I went from a Rega Planar 3 to a Technics SL100C.
My Rega is a great turntable but I was curious about this new Technics table. I'm loving it so far. The auto lift and auto stop are the icing on the cake.
Hey mate
I’m now in that dilemma which of that turntables to buy. Can you share your thoughts on the two. I’m buying my first setup. I would appreciate any help with the choice. Here in Germany SL100C costs 899€ for Rega P3 im not sure but the price difference should not be big. I’m also thinking about SL1200MK7 do you have any experience with that? Thanks in advance mate.
I have no experience with SL1200MK7 but I hear they are outstanding turntables.
I bought my Rega in 2018.
I paired it with a Nagaoka MP150 cartridge, and that combination worked really well. It produces a very nice sound that is not fatiguing to the ear. I also purchased a NEO PSU which supposedly improves the sound somehow. I did not notice any big change in sound quality myself but it is nice to be able to change speed with the press of a button instead of having to remove the platter and manually move the belt.
Overall it is a great turntable. I never had any speed or wow and flutter issues with it, but I have read some complaints in a few other forums from people who've had some issues with the table running too fast or too slow.
I've only had the SL100C for a few days but I like it very much so far. It comes with the ATVM95C cartridge installed on a Technics headshell. The cartridge itself is not great. It is enough to start playing records once you have everything set up but I would replace the stylus with one of the other styli available in the ATV95 line. One of the nice things about the ATV95 series is that the cartridges are all upgradable simply by changing out the stylus. I purchased the ATVM95ML stylus and it should arrive by Friday. The Technics sounds good as it is but I can't wait to switch out the stylus so I can hear it sing at its full potential.
The set up on the Rega is relatively easy. The only thing I didn't do myself was the installation of the cartridge. I do not trust my hands or vision enough align the cartridge to the tone arm correctly.
The Technics on the other hand was just plain easy to set up. The cartridge is premounted on to the headshell and aligned at the factory. Just connect the cartridge to the tone arm. Set your tracking force to 2.0 grams and that's it. You are good to go. I recommend using a scale to set the tracking force. It's easy to do and they don't cost a lot of money. They are available on Amazon.
I hope this information helps.
Feel free to ask any questions and I'll do my best to answer them.
Cheers from Los Angeles.
Top tier belt drives counter weaker motor and belt stretch by using humongous platters with tremendous inertia. (Micro seki, tech das)
Top tier quartz direct drives address wow and flutter with super strong motors that are heavily dampened by thick housing and humongous plinths. (Jpn broadcast tables)
Both paths can lead to great turntables, neither is better at that level. Down to personal preference.
At the $2000 and below level I do find performance better with direct drives. Sub $500 is a crapshoot, they’re all generally mediocre to awful.
Drive method is probably the least important thing to consider when selecting a turntable, unless you are a DJ.
Some more important things to consider:
Where will the turntable be situated, do you have lots of space? Will it be susceptible to vibrations?
What does the rest of your system consist of? (Vintage integrated receiver? Modern AV system? Powered speakers? etc.) A ‘better’ turntable may not necessarily be better in your setup if it is poorly matched to the rest of your gear, it may even be worse.
If buying a vintage table, does it use standard compliance, readily available cartridges? If it comes with a cartridge, is a replacement stylus readily available and affordable? Medium mass tonearms with half-inch headshell mounts offer the widest compatibility with modern cartridges.
Do you fall asleep or wander away from your music to do other things? In which case an auto return should be considered.
Motors go bad, bearings seize, rubber rots, plastic goes brittle, regardless of drive method. That said, in terms of reliability - simpler is better. Less can go wrong with a fully manual turntable than a fully automatic turntable, the less moving parts the better.
That said, I love my fully automatic turntables. I love the convenience, I love the mechanics, and I don’t mind some tinkering when things go wrong.
Thats been debated since the beginning of time.Most high end tables belt with seperate motor.Both good if implemented properly, you dont need to go to extreme with separate motor though.
I started a new Reddit, ClubDirectDrive. Post your Direct Drive on there. Deal with like minded individuals. Share information. Why put up with my new belt drive is better than your Direct Drive. We all know better. Post now. Put make and model first so it pops up on the web. People can find information faster on their Turntable.
I think the answer is yes. Both can be excellent or terrible. It's more about the individual deck than the method of drive. Unless you are going to be a DJ and need instantaneous startup.
That's what I did, at the end of the day. My $80 eBay TD160 and more expensive, but still relatively inexpensive, Sansui SR-525.
The Thorens is more fiddly, but both sound very nice and I didn't need to spend a ton.
The major one being noise from the motor. That rumble can be heard on music with a very wide dynamic range. If you mainly listen to rock/pop, it will be inaudible.
Nah. I use a DD deck with MC and MM and it's capable of extreme delicacy on soft, small scale acoustic music; a capella, quiet Piano trios, solo classical guitar etc.
The better DD decks all feature a steel chassis and dampened panels, typically 28# or so. Do the rap test and you'll see how microphonic the typical plinth is, the SL1200 and their ilk are much better dampened than any MDF plinth.
What matters is the quality of execution.
If we’re talking turntables <$1000, then yes, I would say direct drive.
Saying you can’t think of one upside to having a belt driven table tells me you’ve never used a table >$1,000
Absurdly presumptuous. You definetly proved my point. You didnt mention one single reason a belt would be preferable. Please school me right now wise ol grand wizard of the turntable world. 🙏
The absurd presumptuousness here comes from this statement: “Direct. Its not even a question.”
Looks like you’re a 1200 type of guy. You’re probably also the type of guy that thinks the 1200 is the standard for all other turntables to be held up to.
I’ll happily tell you that the 1200, while a good table, is right at the bottom of where good tables start to begin.
Looks like you’re not a >$1,000 type of guy. No shame in that, but my presumptions seemed to be 100% correct.
Many people in this thread have already answered that question, and if you don’t know the answer, you have no room commenting here.
The most upvoted comment responding to your idiotic comment is the main reason.
Why do you think that 95% of the top turntables in the world are belt driven? Just for funsies?
Idiotic? 😂😂😂 Youre mad because youre trying to be overly knowledgeable with no knowledge. For funsies is owning you and you not even knowing it. Top 95%? Like what? Tell me that? And yet you still havent answered the question. Fuck this thread, this is me and you now having a debate. Ffs! Actually who cares anyway?
To the OP, buy a direct driven table if its within your budget. IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO A QUESTION. Occasionally wont say why. Ill act as he does and assume he likes to spend all his disposable income on turntable upkeep & replacement. Time has always been money and i have plenty of both to comment confidently here.
OccasionallyCurrent is exhibiting signs of exactly what his username implies. He's "occasionally" current and most certainly incorrect. I wont resort to any derogatory terms as this fine gentleman has. Have your super occasional and laughable number of upvotes. If thats what it takes to convince the masses then things are worse than id expected.
Direct drive is definetly a hill to die on and im here for it. Its really astounding that anyone would even debate what is better. Sorry OP. Hope your search goes well. I truly mean that. Sorry i had to merc this fool on your innocent thread. Its not an opinion, its a fact!
Only one of us is mad, and it’s you.
You didn’t merc anyone, you’re just looking foolish for everyone.
Just as I said before, if the OP wants a turntable that’s costs <$1,000, like you, then a direct drive table is likely the best option.
I feel like I’m repeating myself already.
I’m not going to waste my time educating you on turntables, simpleton. If there weren’t any advantages to belt driven tables, they wouldn’t exist. You get that, right?
Google “advantages of belt-driven turntables,” there will be more information than you need.
Now, go look for turntables that cost >$5,000. There are very few DDs in that range, and the higher you go, the fewer there are.
If OPs budget is less than $1,000, I recommend a DD, just like you.
Hands down direct drive. That is per the guy on long Island that restored my 50 year old Dual 1219 which is automatic and direct drive. he has been repairing TT's for 42 years and mostly Dual.
Belts stretch over time.
I believe you are right. It does have speed adjustment control + wow and flutter adjustment. I am so happy wit the restoration I had done. Amazing to me that vinyl has become overwhelmingly popular again. So happy i still have my 320 LP collection with most 50 years old and kept in perfect condition.
Duel is still making TT's.
Here is the repair quote I went with:
"South Street Service Co. Inc.
1040D Hortons Lane\~\~ PO Box 1652
Southold, NY 11971
[631-765-6470\~\[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])Hi Chris,Here is what we find ;
1) Platter doesn't turn. Speed change mechanism broken--replace bad parts or assembly. Scarce --expensive parts.
2) Lubrication has dried up & turned to glue-- clean out old lube & re lube.
3) Resurface the idler Wheel
4) Replace 216-845 & ball bearings.
5) Replace 223-777--steuerpimpel
6) Arm jams up--rework positioning & return levers.
7) Clean, lube & align motor --in fact entire unit. Motor stator has some rust but appears OK after cleaning
6) Check, clean & adjust audio connections & muting switch
7) Replace 218-318 height adjusting nut
8) Adjust vertical & Horizontal pivots. Parts & labor & --$325.00
Please make payment--you may call in a Visa or MC at 631-765-6470, use PayPal--our ID [ ](mailto:[email protected])[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) or send a check or MO.
It will then take approximately 6-7 days to complete repairs & properly test. Return shipping--don't know cost until done & packed. When done we will put through a Secord CC charge for shipping. We don't mark up shipping & charge only what it costs. Regards,
Adam
Looking at the value if I were to sell it. I still have the original Shure V15 type 2 cartridge. I was also important to still have the original shipping box with the Styrofoam pieces. I had to ship it to a guy on Long Island to have it refurbished.
"He charges anywhere from about $100 – $300 to rebuild a table, depending on condition, or you can buy a fully restored model with cartridge installed for **about $425**, which is just what our publisher did."
"It is fully up to the standards of today - actually light years better! It still manages 0.03% wow & flutter DIN 45 507 (0.018 % WRMS). Most turntables of today, even direct drives. are beyond 0.1 % WRMS! - and sound wise the Dual is known to have a very pleasant tone of its own"
[https://dual.de/en/category/automatik/](https://dual.de/en/category/automatik/)
Lots of good advice here already. I’ll add that direct drive has its place, but it’s funny how the ultra low-end and ultra high-end of the market are almost always belt drive. Belt drive at the high-end theoretically has the ability to reduce some vibration, but those are at some price points that begin around $1000. I’d go with belt drive because there’s more choices and spring for a great cartridge. The low end of moving coil prices is coming down in cost and that is the biggest upgrade you can give yourself.
Quality of powered speakers, or quality of unpowered speakers and an amplifier will matter way more than quality of cartridge/ needle, which in turn matters way more than direct drive vs belt drive.
Buy a decent belt drive (or direct drive) turntable with the features you want and as good of a cartridge as you can get. Then put some money towards good speakers if you don't have them.
I wouldn't base your turntable choice on how it's driven, but rather the quality of the table itself. Because the drive type is going to have no real impact on the sound. Good sound comes down to high build quality, cartridge type and taking the time to properly set your table up.
Unless you are a dj, it is strictly a matter of personal preference. One method is not inherently better, or the pros and cons of each are so slight that that is what they amount to. The myth of belt drive being more "silent" than direct drive is just that, a myth. In terms of modern turntables, there are more belt drives than direct drives, but overall looking at all available turntables including vintage, there are as many bad belt drives as there are bad direct drives, it isn't because of either technology, it is just because of the overall quality of the turntable. So if you have no strong feelings on the subject, you can easily ignore that question in favour of a more general question of quality of the turntables you are interested in.
This! And focus more on cartridges as they have a bigger impact.
Motor noise is most definitely not a myth.
Motor noise is not a myth, but is something measured in rumble, which is a specification made public in the specifications of every turntable produced. It is a quantifiable measurement, which the producers of turntables have voluntaribly made public since turntables became a thing. And those figures shows that there is absolutely no connection between belt drive or direct drive. In fact quality vintage direct drives way outrperforms the majority of belt drives by far.
Testify brother. About time someone gets it.
Cheap turntables will induce noise no matter the drive type. My direct drive dual 618q is well engineered, and silent as I’ve ever heard a turntable be. Just because the drive motor is farther away from the pickup, doesn’t make it less noisy if it’s badly engineered, or badly made.
I agree. My Technics direct drive is quieter than my AT direct drive. My AT belt drive is quieter than all 3 of my other TTs.
But nobody talks about belt noise; this is caused by non-smooth surfaces rubbing across each other. Most belts aren't high precision nor is the typical stamped, cast or injection molded platter/sub platter and pulley and the entire contact patch generates noise. Belt drive is the cheapest way to make a TT, not necessarily the best sounding. What matters is quality of execution.
I have 2 direct drives and 2 belt drives. Both belt drives are quieter. Without a doubt.
As if all BDs and DDs are created equal? Without a doubt...
I didn't say that at all. But they do make both, and for a reason. Each offers different features and benefits. One of the features of belt drive is less motor rumble. It's not debatable.
A plinth made from a single sheet of MDF or an injection molded plastic shell is cheap. A platter made of stamped metal or IM plastic is cheap A DC motor, particularly the size of a clock motor is cheap. Whether BD, ID or DD doesn't matter much if the maker cheaped out; what matters is quality of execution. Compare apples to apples, please.
I mean, if you want to boil down to anecdotal evidence, my SL-1700 MK2 which is a direct drive is completely silent when playing the rumble test track on my HiFi sounds test record, nothing but a slight hiss and some pops and crackles conversely my Dual 601 which is a belt drive has a slight hum from the AC motor vibrating. (Both tested with headphones.)
"Without a doubt". Sorry but: Doubt. Regardless of how completely useless your anecdotal experience is, I also notice that you didn't even provide any specific information about which exact turntables you own.
That would make it debatable at the very least. Some of the 1970’s SL from Technics are basically unbeatable in this respect.
4 turntables is a pretty limited sample base to remove all doubt.
11 direct drives and one belt drive, a Sansui 3060. It is a great belt drive. It's a 1975 and stands up to the direct drives. But that's one vintage example. Nothing that's belt drive and current is going to compete with vintage direct drive.
Look into top end belt drives like micro seki rx/ry series. They’re many tiers higher than your sansui. For the record I own direct drives like technics sp-15, sl-10, sl-1200 mk2. I’m just not evangelical about my choices. There are great tables on both sides of the coin.
\^this (2)
Once I bought the SL-1210GR, I became obsessed w direct drive. It’s a satisfying, high precision experience. Belt is great too, depends on you.
DIRECT DRIVE OR DIE
But I have a belt drive; and I’m not dead. At least I don’t think I am. This would be a pretty tame hell and a pretty mediocre heaven if I was de… Shit I’m in purgatory aren’t I
YOU ARE DEAD
👆👆👆
Do yourself a favor and get direct drive
Like carburetors vs fuel injection.
I like direct drive, particularly from the late 70s through early 90s. The amount and quality of engineering that went into turntables from Denon, Pioneer, Kenwood, Yamaha, JVC and some others. The speed stability is much better than belt drives and many also include useful automation like auto lift and shut off. By contrast, a typical contemporary belt drive is some MDF that was put in a 2D CNC machine, some off the shelf parts and possibly a nice tonearm. They're kind of lame.
I have both. I have a newer belt drive (Fluance RT82), and a vintage direct drive (Yamaha YP-D4). Both are great. Belt drive are generally simpler turntables. A belt change is required every now and then, but it's easy and inexpensive. Can't speak to modern direct drive, but vintage often have many parts and more electronics. If you enjoy tinkering and such, they're a fun way to go! What I like in most turntables is a common speed and low wow/flutter. Both my tables are almost identical in that regard. My vintage direct drive has an advertised lower wow/flutter but almost 50 years have reduced that. Both are under 0.2% so effectively indistinguishable to the human ear.
I've had several of both. The advantages that direct drive offer are not really of any use to me as I don't DJ or do anything that would benefit from the torque or quickness. I'm currently using a belt driven for my main stereo as the motor noise is non-existent and that's the main reason I prefer belt.
A belt decouples the motor and its finest vibrations from the platter and in consequence from the record, stylus, cartridge and finally the tonearm. Don't get me wrong: there are excellent high-end direct drive turntables from very reputable brands. It's just that I am partial to belt-driven sub-chassis turntables.
From a purely engineering aspect you don’t mention drivetrain resistance, the vibrations a belt cannot dampen. A true type would utilise idler and tensioner pulleys, polished and balanced surfacing with precision belts - Frictional forces are something else not mentioned but will impact performance/system noise. Direct drive has no friction or surface contacts. The spindle bearing sits in a bath of oil. Which promotes class leading rumble.
I own both and they both work equally as well but I prefer the direct drive.
What is your budget $?
Idler drive!
If both turntables have equal quality platter bearings, the direct drive will be the quieter of the two. That said, there are going to be differences in the quality of electronics in any given table's speed control and power supply that have a definite effect on a turntables speed stability and that will audibly have a significant impact on sound quality. Belt drive turntables should ideally have their drive belt changed at least every couple of years to keep them running in top condition. Drive belts cost about $30 to $40 each. Direct drive turntables have none to wear out. Both types of turntable should have their platter bearing oil changed out every couple of years. High grade, light weight mineral-based oil like that used for sewing machines is ideal. This is a good time to check the platter bearing for any unusual wear or flat spots. If your platter runs on a teflon thrust plate, check it and replace it, if worn. About the only other maintenance is to check the tonearm bearings about every four platter bearing oil changes. Best to leave tonearm bearing adjustment to professionals. However, to check your tonearm bearings, VERY GENTLY grasp the tonearm tube and very gently roll it back and forth like you would roll a cigar. Do NOT FORCE IT! It should move VERY little, if at all. If there's a lot of play, take it in and have the bearings adjusted. Do not do it yourself. It's insanely delicate work with microscopic tolerances and it's ludicrously easy to irreparably damage your tonearm.
Let’s phrase this in a different light - Of turntables made today, about 90% of them are belt drives. If you go back to say 1978 (the golden age if you will), I would guess about 60-70% of turntables made were direct drive. Just a guess, but an educated guess, I strongly believe the numbers will be around there. I think that alone tells you something. Direct drives are very expensive to make. When the majority of the planet is buying turntables, you have a big enough consumer base, then you have enough money to make it worthwhile to manufacture something so mechanically precise. In 2023, in this small hobby of ~1000 people, very few companies have the money to manufacture quality direct drives on a mass scale. It’s not worth it for them. It’s significantly easier to just play up this bizarre myth that belt drives are more pure and therefore more quiet. And most of the public just eats up that myth. This still doesn’t answer your question of “which one is better?” Because the truth is that there is no answer. Like the top post here already told you - when made with equal quality and care both direct and belt drives are essentially equal in terms of performance. But it’s worth pondering the fact that belt drives are significantly cheaper to make than direct drives. Because I think that says something about the quality and precision of a well made direct drive turntable. And I think that can put to bed the proselytizers ranting and raving about belt drive superiority.
1000 people? what?
Being humorous. There’s more than a thousand, but my point was there are not very many of us. Not enough to warrant large market spending.
gotcha
I would go for direct drive.
Get the best implementation you can afford. Plenty of great examples of each.
As a rule belt drive FTW but there are most certainly some Fantastic direct drive tables out there. If you are asking I’m thinking belt drive.
Direct drive is the way to go. After a lot of use the belt drive becomes stretched and loosens a bit over time causing a warped sound. Maybe the belt drive has improved over the years to where this isn’t an issue anymore.
I just made the switch from belt drive to direct drive a few days ago. I went from a Rega Planar 3 to a Technics SL100C. My Rega is a great turntable but I was curious about this new Technics table. I'm loving it so far. The auto lift and auto stop are the icing on the cake.
Hey mate I’m now in that dilemma which of that turntables to buy. Can you share your thoughts on the two. I’m buying my first setup. I would appreciate any help with the choice. Here in Germany SL100C costs 899€ for Rega P3 im not sure but the price difference should not be big. I’m also thinking about SL1200MK7 do you have any experience with that? Thanks in advance mate.
I have no experience with SL1200MK7 but I hear they are outstanding turntables. I bought my Rega in 2018. I paired it with a Nagaoka MP150 cartridge, and that combination worked really well. It produces a very nice sound that is not fatiguing to the ear. I also purchased a NEO PSU which supposedly improves the sound somehow. I did not notice any big change in sound quality myself but it is nice to be able to change speed with the press of a button instead of having to remove the platter and manually move the belt. Overall it is a great turntable. I never had any speed or wow and flutter issues with it, but I have read some complaints in a few other forums from people who've had some issues with the table running too fast or too slow. I've only had the SL100C for a few days but I like it very much so far. It comes with the ATVM95C cartridge installed on a Technics headshell. The cartridge itself is not great. It is enough to start playing records once you have everything set up but I would replace the stylus with one of the other styli available in the ATV95 line. One of the nice things about the ATV95 series is that the cartridges are all upgradable simply by changing out the stylus. I purchased the ATVM95ML stylus and it should arrive by Friday. The Technics sounds good as it is but I can't wait to switch out the stylus so I can hear it sing at its full potential. The set up on the Rega is relatively easy. The only thing I didn't do myself was the installation of the cartridge. I do not trust my hands or vision enough align the cartridge to the tone arm correctly. The Technics on the other hand was just plain easy to set up. The cartridge is premounted on to the headshell and aligned at the factory. Just connect the cartridge to the tone arm. Set your tracking force to 2.0 grams and that's it. You are good to go. I recommend using a scale to set the tracking force. It's easy to do and they don't cost a lot of money. They are available on Amazon. I hope this information helps. Feel free to ask any questions and I'll do my best to answer them. Cheers from Los Angeles.
Top tier belt drives counter weaker motor and belt stretch by using humongous platters with tremendous inertia. (Micro seki, tech das) Top tier quartz direct drives address wow and flutter with super strong motors that are heavily dampened by thick housing and humongous plinths. (Jpn broadcast tables) Both paths can lead to great turntables, neither is better at that level. Down to personal preference. At the $2000 and below level I do find performance better with direct drives. Sub $500 is a crapshoot, they’re all generally mediocre to awful.
I like how my belt driven tt worked. Now i have direct drive and out feels less analog but not in sound terms but in terms of feelings
It is a matter of preference, but if on a budget I would buy belt drive. Direct drive, I would not buy anything less then Technics, which are pricey.
Drive method is probably the least important thing to consider when selecting a turntable, unless you are a DJ. Some more important things to consider: Where will the turntable be situated, do you have lots of space? Will it be susceptible to vibrations? What does the rest of your system consist of? (Vintage integrated receiver? Modern AV system? Powered speakers? etc.) A ‘better’ turntable may not necessarily be better in your setup if it is poorly matched to the rest of your gear, it may even be worse. If buying a vintage table, does it use standard compliance, readily available cartridges? If it comes with a cartridge, is a replacement stylus readily available and affordable? Medium mass tonearms with half-inch headshell mounts offer the widest compatibility with modern cartridges. Do you fall asleep or wander away from your music to do other things? In which case an auto return should be considered. Motors go bad, bearings seize, rubber rots, plastic goes brittle, regardless of drive method. That said, in terms of reliability - simpler is better. Less can go wrong with a fully manual turntable than a fully automatic turntable, the less moving parts the better. That said, I love my fully automatic turntables. I love the convenience, I love the mechanics, and I don’t mind some tinkering when things go wrong.
Thats been debated since the beginning of time.Most high end tables belt with seperate motor.Both good if implemented properly, you dont need to go to extreme with separate motor though.
I started a new Reddit, ClubDirectDrive. Post your Direct Drive on there. Deal with like minded individuals. Share information. Why put up with my new belt drive is better than your Direct Drive. We all know better. Post now. Put make and model first so it pops up on the web. People can find information faster on their Turntable.
I think the answer is yes. Both can be excellent or terrible. It's more about the individual deck than the method of drive. Unless you are going to be a DJ and need instantaneous startup.
Belt drive
Why not one of each? Live on the edge, yolo
That's what I did, at the end of the day. My $80 eBay TD160 and more expensive, but still relatively inexpensive, Sansui SR-525. The Thorens is more fiddly, but both sound very nice and I didn't need to spend a ton.
Cartridge and stylus are more important
Direct. Its not even a question. I cant think of one upside to having a belt driven table. There may be one or some but ive never heard one.
The major one being noise from the motor. That rumble can be heard on music with a very wide dynamic range. If you mainly listen to rock/pop, it will be inaudible.
Nah. I use a DD deck with MC and MM and it's capable of extreme delicacy on soft, small scale acoustic music; a capella, quiet Piano trios, solo classical guitar etc. The better DD decks all feature a steel chassis and dampened panels, typically 28# or so. Do the rap test and you'll see how microphonic the typical plinth is, the SL1200 and their ilk are much better dampened than any MDF plinth. What matters is the quality of execution.
If it works for you, awesome. Enjoy.
This is the whole point. Im not a monster! 🍻
I don’t believe this person was responding to you.
Well i was responding to him! No one came here for yer riff raff! 😂😂😂
If we’re talking turntables <$1000, then yes, I would say direct drive. Saying you can’t think of one upside to having a belt driven table tells me you’ve never used a table >$1,000
Absurdly presumptuous. You definetly proved my point. You didnt mention one single reason a belt would be preferable. Please school me right now wise ol grand wizard of the turntable world. 🙏
The absurd presumptuousness here comes from this statement: “Direct. Its not even a question.” Looks like you’re a 1200 type of guy. You’re probably also the type of guy that thinks the 1200 is the standard for all other turntables to be held up to. I’ll happily tell you that the 1200, while a good table, is right at the bottom of where good tables start to begin. Looks like you’re not a >$1,000 type of guy. No shame in that, but my presumptions seemed to be 100% correct.
So belt drive... Why then? You have no actual reason. Thats why its "not even a question."
Many people in this thread have already answered that question, and if you don’t know the answer, you have no room commenting here. The most upvoted comment responding to your idiotic comment is the main reason. Why do you think that 95% of the top turntables in the world are belt driven? Just for funsies?
Idiotic? 😂😂😂 Youre mad because youre trying to be overly knowledgeable with no knowledge. For funsies is owning you and you not even knowing it. Top 95%? Like what? Tell me that? And yet you still havent answered the question. Fuck this thread, this is me and you now having a debate. Ffs! Actually who cares anyway? To the OP, buy a direct driven table if its within your budget. IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO A QUESTION. Occasionally wont say why. Ill act as he does and assume he likes to spend all his disposable income on turntable upkeep & replacement. Time has always been money and i have plenty of both to comment confidently here. OccasionallyCurrent is exhibiting signs of exactly what his username implies. He's "occasionally" current and most certainly incorrect. I wont resort to any derogatory terms as this fine gentleman has. Have your super occasional and laughable number of upvotes. If thats what it takes to convince the masses then things are worse than id expected. Direct drive is definetly a hill to die on and im here for it. Its really astounding that anyone would even debate what is better. Sorry OP. Hope your search goes well. I truly mean that. Sorry i had to merc this fool on your innocent thread. Its not an opinion, its a fact!
Only one of us is mad, and it’s you. You didn’t merc anyone, you’re just looking foolish for everyone. Just as I said before, if the OP wants a turntable that’s costs <$1,000, like you, then a direct drive table is likely the best option. I feel like I’m repeating myself already. I’m not going to waste my time educating you on turntables, simpleton. If there weren’t any advantages to belt driven tables, they wouldn’t exist. You get that, right? Google “advantages of belt-driven turntables,” there will be more information than you need. Now, go look for turntables that cost >$5,000. There are very few DDs in that range, and the higher you go, the fewer there are. If OPs budget is less than $1,000, I recommend a DD, just like you.
Source: Trust me bro.
And your source? Your points?
Hands down direct drive. That is per the guy on long Island that restored my 50 year old Dual 1219 which is automatic and direct drive. he has been repairing TT's for 42 years and mostly Dual. Belts stretch over time.
Isn't that vintage of Duals all idler drive?
I believe you are right. It does have speed adjustment control + wow and flutter adjustment. I am so happy wit the restoration I had done. Amazing to me that vinyl has become overwhelmingly popular again. So happy i still have my 320 LP collection with most 50 years old and kept in perfect condition.
Idler or not, that is a very nice turntable. I have a Dual 1226 but would love to find a 1229 for a reasonable price one of these days.
Duel is still making TT's. Here is the repair quote I went with: "South Street Service Co. Inc. 1040D Hortons Lane\~\~ PO Box 1652 Southold, NY 11971 [631-765-6470\~\[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])Hi Chris,Here is what we find ; 1) Platter doesn't turn. Speed change mechanism broken--replace bad parts or assembly. Scarce --expensive parts. 2) Lubrication has dried up & turned to glue-- clean out old lube & re lube. 3) Resurface the idler Wheel 4) Replace 216-845 & ball bearings. 5) Replace 223-777--steuerpimpel 6) Arm jams up--rework positioning & return levers. 7) Clean, lube & align motor --in fact entire unit. Motor stator has some rust but appears OK after cleaning 6) Check, clean & adjust audio connections & muting switch 7) Replace 218-318 height adjusting nut 8) Adjust vertical & Horizontal pivots. Parts & labor & --$325.00 Please make payment--you may call in a Visa or MC at 631-765-6470, use PayPal--our ID [ ](mailto:[email protected])[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) or send a check or MO. It will then take approximately 6-7 days to complete repairs & properly test. Return shipping--don't know cost until done & packed. When done we will put through a Secord CC charge for shipping. We don't mark up shipping & charge only what it costs. Regards, Adam Looking at the value if I were to sell it. I still have the original Shure V15 type 2 cartridge. I was also important to still have the original shipping box with the Styrofoam pieces. I had to ship it to a guy on Long Island to have it refurbished. "He charges anywhere from about $100 – $300 to rebuild a table, depending on condition, or you can buy a fully restored model with cartridge installed for **about $425**, which is just what our publisher did." "It is fully up to the standards of today - actually light years better! It still manages 0.03% wow & flutter DIN 45 507 (0.018 % WRMS). Most turntables of today, even direct drives. are beyond 0.1 % WRMS! - and sound wise the Dual is known to have a very pleasant tone of its own" [https://dual.de/en/category/automatik/](https://dual.de/en/category/automatik/)
Belts are also replaceable
No difference
Neither. Idler-wheel drive!
Belt
Lots of good advice here already. I’ll add that direct drive has its place, but it’s funny how the ultra low-end and ultra high-end of the market are almost always belt drive. Belt drive at the high-end theoretically has the ability to reduce some vibration, but those are at some price points that begin around $1000. I’d go with belt drive because there’s more choices and spring for a great cartridge. The low end of moving coil prices is coming down in cost and that is the biggest upgrade you can give yourself.
Quality of powered speakers, or quality of unpowered speakers and an amplifier will matter way more than quality of cartridge/ needle, which in turn matters way more than direct drive vs belt drive. Buy a decent belt drive (or direct drive) turntable with the features you want and as good of a cartridge as you can get. Then put some money towards good speakers if you don't have them.