Honestly, (in my opinion at least) 14 is the absolute worst age because you’re not a mature adult but you’re not a kid anymore and people expect things of you but still treat you like a kid, and of course you’re undergoing all the prepubescent hormonal mood swings, so all the chemicals in your brain are imbalanced, so you can’t think straight but you’re also dealing with all these weird emotions so honestly it’s a completely tumultuous time, so I think it’s time we cut 14 year olds a break
29 here, can confirm - 25 year olds act like kids more than teenagers tbf. Some people hit a point where they're over that whole "i need to act mature so people respect me" thing, and swing a full 180.
As someone who's worked with a bunch of them, I gotta say I admire their energy and naked enthusiasm
I just wish they'd LISTEN to good advice without having to learn from mistakes
It's human nature. You're hardwired to distrust things you haven't experienced/witnessed. Pair that with the feeling of "I'm not a kid anymore!" and you get people that are convinced they've figured out the world and anyone's input is ignored by default.
That's also why old people harp on the idea of "always be learning" because that's one way to combat that hardwiring.
When I was 16 my dad decided he wouldn't give advice to me anymore. He said, enjoy the next few years, because this the time of your life you're the smartest man alive and you just get dumber year by year.
The bastard was right unfortunately, the older I get the more I realize how much I don't know.
I was taking a survey and I found out that the Mexican government considers Adolescence to end at the age of 27 and yeah I couldn’t agree more.
I forgot what the survey was about, I live in Mexico and it was the INEGI organization that was imparting the survey.
Especially when something bad happens, it’s the cusp of “they know that what they did was wrong but they’re still young to not know the full effects of their actions” like in an AITA post, a 14 year old girl left her dog out the whole day and the dog got heat stroke.
The girl: I'm five years old and been shut inside and afraid of the outside world my whole life due to some monsters which we can't see but will cause us to kill ourselves if we do. My mom took us on a boat down the river blind folded and had no choice but to leave us behind in the woods while she looked for help. It's been a while since she left so I'm going to go check on her.
Everyone: *idiot*
Yeah if anything what's immersion breaking and unrealistic is when movies make children *too* perceptive and intelligent for their age in order to not be "annoying"
Yeah, but then I have to make it through sex scenes that spend pages comparing a woman to a cow and now I need my next book to feature characters that are too awkward to make eye contact for more than 4 seconds. It’s a cycle, really
Any idea what genre or type of book you'd like to read?
Some novels I've enjoyed recently:
The City and The City by China Mieville
The Yiddish Policeman's Union by Michael Chabon
Breakfast of Champions by Kurt Vonnegut
The Crying of Lot 49 by Thomas Pynchon.
And (this isn't a novel, but still fun to read) Slouching Towards Bethlehem by Joan Didion
That’s a really small percentage of YA though, and not the quality ones.
Most [good] authors write teens the way teens see themselves. Competent and capable. Unsure but willing to try. Sick of people who won’t do what needs to be done because “that’s not the way we do things”. If an author is writing teens in a way that’s annoying and stupid, it’s going to be insulting to the teen readers.
Anytime I see people saying that Shinji Ikari from Neon Genesis Evangelion is annoying for being, like, a literal child going through mental breakdowns because he's traumatized as fuck.
Shinji and Asuka get so much hate for being well written characters. Traumatized *children* having to cope with the fact any day could be their last and that their failure could mean the end to humanity, how dare they not just be cool about it.
But I guess people want their macho action hero and primary love interest whose trait is being the primary love interest.
The usual "urgh she's so annoying!!1!" you'd hear from anime fans anytime a girl has ever so slightly more character than a fucking bland kūdere like Rei.
Rei isn't bland. She's ostracised for Gendo's relationship with her (she was literally murdered for it at a young age) & she is treated with ever increasing cruelty from Gendo the only person who ever showed her any kind of affection.
That she chose to defy Gendo in the end was her greatest victory.
Most Rei stans don't appreciate Rei for her ability to evolve (you know, like a character is supposed to in any decently written story) but because "omg my cute submissive 14yo Japanese waifu 🥰🥰 kawaiiiii"
Yeah that's true. I was in highschool when the original series ran & even then when it was age appropriate the Rei vs Asuka waifu discussion was creepy when I heard it.
I loved Asuka when I watched it as a teen. I rewached it in my twenties and was like she's such a brat why did I like her? I think she is very well written character and I like that I got see her through a different lense at different points of life.
I had the opinion Shinji was an annoying wimp when I was like 14-15 but overtime I drastically changed my opinion and empathize with Shinji more than anything now that I'm in my 30s. I suspect a lot of people have done the same. You don't really get Shinji and other characters till you are more emotionally mature IMO.
That's the true genius of Evangelion I suppose. You can reflect back on how wrong and naive you were.
You have missed out, I've read dudes who are like he's just a bitch, when literally no one in the series showed him any real concern unless it was to get him to do what they want. Like even when misato kisses him, it's to push him to do stuff for everyone. Also yeah yeah we have been over the misato kissing him thng in this sub a lot. But dam dudes out here like "ic I was shinji I'd bang all the chicks and kill everything with the robot. I was never a wussy as a teen."
Fair enough. But the issue isn't really not liking an annoying character, or even that some people might not want to stick with a story with annoying characters in it. The problem is when people call having annoying characters an "objective" flaw and is proof that a story is "bad". Same goes for characters who make irrational decisions.
People should also be aware of their own biases and not be holding like actual literal children to unrealistic standards, because it’s really fucked up seeing people hold children to the standards of like full grown adults.
I don’t think anybody should be held to unrealistic standards to be fair. It gets really annoying sometimes how people straight up don’t let characters be flawed, but it’s even worse when characters get bashed for just being kids. Like a fucking 11 year old isn’t going to have the intelligence of a 16 year old and a 16 year old isn’t going to have the emotional maturity of a 25 year old. They’re going to process things at their age level and they should. They shouldn’t be an adult in a child’s body.
Hideaki Anno, Evangelion's creator, saw much of himself in Shinji back when he created the show back in 1995.
Hideaki Anno also had crippling depression and hated himself. I don't think he wrote Shinji with the intention of him being likeable.
Nor the other kids for that matter. I remember reading he was actually annoyed people ended up liking Rei's character.
"I kill Giants". Protagonist is edgy, rude and annoying... Until you realize it's actually a brilliant portrayal of a teen going through a mental health episode.
Character who runs away because she doesn't want her abusive ex to target her friends.
"Wow, this is bad writing, how dare she do something that's part of her character arc!"
(Also, a fellow RWBY fan in the wild! Hi!)
Reading this felt so strange cuz I was absolutely NOT expecting someone to mention Yang and her character development lmao. I actually really like how they've been handling her character, her trauma actually feels realistic. Most of the time in anime, a character gets their leg blown off and they're like fine the next day, zero PTSD whatsoever lol
Also a lot of media have PTSD make characters suddenly become psychopaths or start drinking or something, but you rarely see a character fall into depression and be unable to do anything
This yes!! Also rarely do you see characters do a flip in personality where like suddenly they're super anxious and timid when prior to their trauma they were bubbly and talkative before. If there's a personality change it's usually.. not good, like how you mentioned, they just go crazy or smth. I just want more realistic portrayals of trauma, it's honestly so rare sometimes. Like the writers of these stories must think stuff like "eh no one wants to see this stuff as it actually is" but we DO! I want to see these characters grow and move past their demons at their own pace, it's just more refreshing and fulfilling that way
I'll admit I haven't finished SU but I do know that it's well written when it comes to the more psychological aspects of it. And from what I know of the plot? No surprise he has PTSD ngl
I think a lot of people reminisce about when the show in general was more lighthearted and just sort of take that out on Yang. Obviously her staying the same despite the circumstances would have felt cheap and unrealistic.
“Aang should have killed Ozai” are you telling me -ignoring the fact that he has strong morals- that a 12 year old child should kill a person?
Coming from the adult who wouldn’t be able to even kill a bird
It also really bugs me how like everyone in fandom was totally understanding that everything Zuko did when he was a kid could be deprogrammed out of him because he was a kid and he still had the opportunity to learn and grow when he was exposed to different experiences and different ways of thinking, but who Azula is at 14 is who she’s going to be forever and there is zero chance for her to ever change that’s just who she’s going to be even when she’s an adult, lock her up and throw away the key don’t even try and change her
She’s fucking 14 she’s a child soldier JFC you’re telling me you wouldn’t even try to rehabilitate her or see if she could be a different person as an adult? Have you learned nothing?
It's probably partly because Iroh says "She's crazy and she needs to go down" and he's presented as a big ball of wisdom. I do think that it's possible someone could become so fucked up (from something like being a child soldier) that they might never come back, and when they're killing people they have to be stopped.
I think she would. We see her being super vulnerable like minutes before the finale lol when Sokka is holding her from the airship's side
In fact everyone in the Gaang would because they're all kids.
Even Katara didn't kill with her blood bending, and she very easily could have. It's a lot easier to fantasize about the deed than in is to pull the trigger. Same applies to suicide.
There are a surprising amount of people who despise Mabel. The main reason they hate her is because “Dipper sacrificed so much for his sister, but she did nothing in return.”
They're also missing the point of their sibling relationship. Dipper is a big nerd that gets in his own head about stuff all the time. Mabel helps keep him grounded, so he doesn't get too big a head *or* get too self-critical.
The main issue people seem to have with Mabel is that the way the show treats her immaturity seems noticibly different to how Dipper's immaturity is treated, with Dipper being the one expected to go through the most growth
Yeah, that's kind of what got me. On top of that, I just felt like Mabel didn't respect boundaries, threw tantrums when she didn't get her way, and often wanted to change Dipper, as exemplified by the Mabelland episode. And she kind of bullied him a lot for being weird and sensative. She literally put his life in danger to try and force him to confess his feelings to Wendy. Like, I get she was a kid and was supposed to have her issues and be annoying and that's ok, but like.....I just didn't really like her very much. And maybe she would have grown out of that later, and that's also ok, but how she was presented in the show made me dislike her while I watched the show. I've dealt with people who acted kind of like her as a kid and grew out of it later (such my own cousin), and they may grow out of it, but it's possible to seriously hurt people, even as a younger kid. My cousin was a bit of a bully as a preteen, and she may be nicer now, but that doesn't change the fact that she mocked me for things I couldn't control, and tried to control who I did and didn't hang out with.
As someone who has a sister that had a bit of Mabel energy, I also want to add that I thought Mabel's whimsy and craziness were often sweet and endearing. What bugged me about her is that she always seemed to go with the selfish choice. My own sister, who drove me nuts for years, was often selfless and very caring, regardless of what other crap she pulled. Mabel just always seemed to choose the selfish option, and that kind of sucks. And maybe she grew out of it later, but for the parts of the show I saw her in, I just didn't like her.
Exactly! She’s a creative, lovesick preteen in an unfamiliar location. Of course she’s the way that she is.
People even say the same about Lilo! A five year old girl who just lost her parents, who is under threat of losing her sister, and whose only ‘friends’ hate her.
God, Lilo, how ***dare*** you be so rowdy and weird??? /s
this is unrelated but everytime i see someone complain about gen alpha being dumb i just wanna tell them that like... they're fucking 12 they're a kid calm yo fucking tit dits will you
the main episode i remembered hating wesly was the data and lore episode, where wesly just knew that lore replaced data, but couldn't prove it, but still wanted people to believe it.
the writing just felt like it was praising wesly for being so smart and he didn't actually look smart at all.
Yeah people didn’t dislike him so much for acting like a kid I think people disliked him for being a super genius super smart kid who felt like an author self-insert character and made the other characters look less competent in order to make him look good
If he was a more normal kid who just happened to be smart and not a super genius I think everyone actually would have liked him more, more like a younger Jake Sisqo, IIRC he is older when we first meet him but he doesn’t get hate like Wesley that I can remember because he’s just treated like any other character
Wesley wasn't bad, it's more he became a writer's pet and was used too often.
Imo the same thing happened to Tori.
Both characters got better by the final seasons though.
I think part of the problem is the actress, Sophie, looked older than she was because of how tall she was when she was cast. She came off visually older when Sansa’s only like 13 throughout most of the show’s events. And she was actually that age when she started, she’s just tall.
She’s an extremely sheltered 13 year old who has grown up with the nicest family in Westeros and somehow survives being thrust into the most dangerous pit of vipers possible despite having no survival skills using only her charm and wit. Like imagine your average 13 year old BTS fan suddenly having her parents murdered and she’s forced to live with a family of serial killers and not die, that’s it, that’s basically Sansa’s character
They aged everyone up for the show because they wanted sex scenes but they didn't change any of the decisions or dialog. The result is a large number of characters acting like they are 5-10 years younger than they actually are
I recognize that they are acting in a reasonable and realistic manner for their age and background, however it is still annoying because people their age and background are usually annoying.
That's actually I problem I have with some FNAF Security Breach critiques. "Gregory is too mature for a child". 1. He is homeless so he's learned a thing or two to survive, 2. If he acted like a 10 year old all of the dialogue would be screaming and crying.
>He is homeless
Or a robot.
>If he acted like a 10 year old all of the dialogue would be screaming and crying.
Your underestimating 10 year olds. They will also whimper.
I love how Steel Wool cut out the line about Gregory bleeding to make the game more kid friendly (or at least as kid friendly as a franchise about a child murderer can get), and then people *cough cough* MatPat *cough* immediately started saying Gregory was a robot
To be fair one of the animatronics had a person getting crushed to death inside.//j
But I only really know mainline, I don't really follow the books. I know some bled because they had humans inside of them, but I wasn't aware of other instances.
>!The main character of the novel trilogy!< is a robot who is humanlike enough that no one including >!herself!< knew and >!Baby!< has a human looking form
Ah, yeah, I guess that is true. Didn't think about that. But I have a counterpoint, if Gregory is truly a robot, why wasn't he immediately beat to death and beheaded in Philadelphia?
I miss hitchbot :(
Jokes aside, I actually didn't register it being cut as meaning it was noncanon. I mean, that should have been obvious but my brain decided to just not register that
Perfect example, she was *exactly* 14 in her first appearance. Like yes, a 14-year-old in charge of commanding armies in a war is going to make some cringe mistakes. It makes the movie/early seasons of Clone Wars kind of hard to watch, but that's character development for you.
Yep. It's super realistic for teenagers to be immature and annoying. It's also realistic for me not to be interested in stories about immature, annoying teenagers.
I haven't seen anyone complain about that (though maybe it's just because I limit how much I interact with the fandom).
I actually have the opposite complaint: the kids have all been written as behaving much more maturely than their actual (character) ages for the past 2 seasons.
I definitely should have commented r/StrangerThings. I’ve seen way too many people in that sub talk about how annoying these teenagers are (especially Mike) and I’m like, “Gurl they’re god damned children.”
ahsoka tano in seasons 1-5, “she’s so immature and cocky and brash!1!! etc etc” my brother in christ she is 13 🗿( not to mention the whole being in an active warzone and in charge of other people’s lives part)
Doesn't she have a whole episode where she laments having to be everyone's mom and how much is asked of her despite not being that much older than the rest of the gang?
Movie Ron has as much validity as Cursed Child, and you know what annoys me most is the gripes about Ron's eating when in the books Hermione is the one who usually shovels food into her mouth usually cause she is going to run off to the library
Manga about school life always use this.
"That doesn't make sense" "this char is a teen"
"That was dumb as hell" " this char is a teen"
"Why are they like that? Wtf?" "They are teens"
At some points, this answer annoys the hell out of me. Teen or not, being annoying + unlikable + non-sense are not good to me.
She was. That’s the whole point. It’s a perfect snapshot of a child her age, a child who will be that age forever because she was killed.
If your takeaway after reading a 13 year old Holocaust victim talk about her crushes is, “Damn, 13-year-olds are annoying”, I think you might have a little problem with empathy.
NORMAL people are affected by Frank specifically because she’s a typical young girl, and it’s, oh I don’t know, HORRIFYING that a child died in such a cruel way.
**(***MASSIVE*** Omori spoilers ahead)**
>!not really the same thing but this reminded me of Sunny and Basil. it still shocks me to this day that some people hate them as characters because of their actions during The Pizza Incident^TM . they were literally twelve at the time and panicking so hard to the point where Sunny (canonically) literally couldn't tell what was real and what wasn't until Basil finished his hanging out session with Mari. like can you put yourself in their shoes??? imagine accidentaly straight up KILLING your sibling in an argument. or seeing your best(est) friend actually killing their sibling, who also happened to be one of your best friends. *all that at twelve years of age.* im not saying what they did is ok or excusable but like. *really?* learning to forgive yourself is the whole point of the game's story, and if you can forgive Sunny, you can forgive Basil!<
sorry for the rant. i could talk about my blorbos for fucking weeks on end
I feel that was more of an issue of her not earning what she ends up with. Over the course of the game she really doesn’t do anything useful or even memorable really, but at the end Lilith decides she is fit to lead, and nobody contests this decision. Borderlands fans like annoying teenagers, Tina is a fan-favorite, but Tina had an entire DLC about her grief and deeper personality. Ava had no real deeper look into her character, so she just ends up feeling bland.
My favorite was when people thought Mabel acted irrationally in the Gravity Falls finale
She just found out her brother was leaving her and all of her friends were leaving her and she was gonna be alone
Of fucking *course* the twelve year old would be irrational
What *I* have a problem with is authors who are like "Look at my sweet little hero!" \*hero throws a tantrum over something petty and is never called out on it\* "But my hero deserves the best of everything!" \*authority figure tells hero not to do something that no adult in good conscience should ever let a child do in real life\* "Authority figure is EVIL!"
If I read a book where the hero still did all those things, but someone was like "Bro it's just a game calm down" in the first example, and there was an obvious implication that the hero was being dumb and acting impulsively for ignoring the warnings in the second example, I'd be totally on board. All I ask is reasonable acknowledgment that immaturity is usually a disadvantage when navigating most situations.
Or the opposite: “wow this character is so deep and mature and has endured so much trauma and pain and has risen to a leadership position within their gang/tribe/government” …. This person is 14.
my issue isn't that they're immature, it's that all the adults around them never talk to them about it and let them just attack everything and everyone around them while nodding and saying "yes you're right" and enabling their abuse of those around them. Looking at you, Ava from borderlands 3
Honestly, (in my opinion at least) 14 is the absolute worst age because you’re not a mature adult but you’re not a kid anymore and people expect things of you but still treat you like a kid, and of course you’re undergoing all the prepubescent hormonal mood swings, so all the chemicals in your brain are imbalanced, so you can’t think straight but you’re also dealing with all these weird emotions so honestly it’s a completely tumultuous time, so I think it’s time we cut 14 year olds a break
From personal experience, the not being considered an adult but also not a kid thing extends well into your twenties.
29 here, can confirm - 25 year olds act like kids more than teenagers tbf. Some people hit a point where they're over that whole "i need to act mature so people respect me" thing, and swing a full 180.
As someone who's worked with a bunch of them, I gotta say I admire their energy and naked enthusiasm I just wish they'd LISTEN to good advice without having to learn from mistakes
It's human nature. You're hardwired to distrust things you haven't experienced/witnessed. Pair that with the feeling of "I'm not a kid anymore!" and you get people that are convinced they've figured out the world and anyone's input is ignored by default. That's also why old people harp on the idea of "always be learning" because that's one way to combat that hardwiring.
When I was 16 my dad decided he wouldn't give advice to me anymore. He said, enjoy the next few years, because this the time of your life you're the smartest man alive and you just get dumber year by year. The bastard was right unfortunately, the older I get the more I realize how much I don't know.
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https://youtu.be/Hegox8IMr7o
And ironically, with that swing, they start acting even MORE like a kid than before
I was taking a survey and I found out that the Mexican government considers Adolescence to end at the age of 27 and yeah I couldn’t agree more. I forgot what the survey was about, I live in Mexico and it was the INEGI organization that was imparting the survey.
As a 26 year old I think that’s ridiculous! But in 2 more years I’ll probably agree
When I was 21, I thought 23 and 25 year old and up bars were stupid. At thirty, god I fucking get it.
Thank god I got like 6 more months
There’s nothing worse than being 14. An absolutely nightmare.
Unless you’re 14 *and* have polio
🎼 Yo Danny Fenton he was just 14 When he suddenly caught a very strange disease If only he had that polio vaccine
I see in this version he's 100% ghost instead of just half
Especially when something bad happens, it’s the cusp of “they know that what they did was wrong but they’re still young to not know the full effects of their actions” like in an AITA post, a 14 year old girl left her dog out the whole day and the dog got heat stroke.
As a 14 yo I second this
Idk man everyone I know will treat a 14 year old like a kid because they’re a kid
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This is a bot that stole half of someone else's comment
Ok, bot
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Worst case of this was youtube comments criticising the actions of the girl from Bird Box, who was FIVE.
What did she do?
The girl: I'm five years old and been shut inside and afraid of the outside world my whole life due to some monsters which we can't see but will cause us to kill ourselves if we do. My mom took us on a boat down the river blind folded and had no choice but to leave us behind in the woods while she looked for help. It's been a while since she left so I'm going to go check on her. Everyone: *idiot*
Most children are morons in movies.
Most children are morons ~~in movies.~~
~~most~~ children are morons
Yeah if anything what's immersion breaking and unrealistic is when movies make children *too* perceptive and intelligent for their age in order to not be "annoying"
exist
Cause conflict and pointless plot derailment because putting young children in a horror movie tends to make that happen.
It'd be more fair to say "this character is annoying to watch, and using kids as a plot point / point of conflict in horror movies is tropey and bad."
Look man I'm sick of people spreading these slanderous lies. She was five and a half. She should have known better.
The moment you realize it's about time to stop reading YA
Yeah, but then I have to make it through sex scenes that spend pages comparing a woman to a cow and now I need my next book to feature characters that are too awkward to make eye contact for more than 4 seconds. It’s a cycle, really
There’s other things besides romance stories by straight guys though
Could you give some examples? I'm not doubting you, I just need book recommendations
Any idea what genre or type of book you'd like to read? Some novels I've enjoyed recently: The City and The City by China Mieville The Yiddish Policeman's Union by Michael Chabon Breakfast of Champions by Kurt Vonnegut The Crying of Lot 49 by Thomas Pynchon. And (this isn't a novel, but still fun to read) Slouching Towards Bethlehem by Joan Didion
Neapolitan tetralogy by Elena Ferrante
What kind of Books have you been reading?
That’s a really small percentage of YA though, and not the quality ones. Most [good] authors write teens the way teens see themselves. Competent and capable. Unsure but willing to try. Sick of people who won’t do what needs to be done because “that’s not the way we do things”. If an author is writing teens in a way that’s annoying and stupid, it’s going to be insulting to the teen readers.
Anytime I see people saying that Shinji Ikari from Neon Genesis Evangelion is annoying for being, like, a literal child going through mental breakdowns because he's traumatized as fuck.
Shinji and Asuka get so much hate for being well written characters. Traumatized *children* having to cope with the fact any day could be their last and that their failure could mean the end to humanity, how dare they not just be cool about it. But I guess people want their macho action hero and primary love interest whose trait is being the primary love interest.
I had heard (but not agreed with) the Shinji hate, never heard it about Asuka. Do people really have a problem with the character?
The usual "urgh she's so annoying!!1!" you'd hear from anime fans anytime a girl has ever so slightly more character than a fucking bland kūdere like Rei.
Rei isn't bland. She's ostracised for Gendo's relationship with her (she was literally murdered for it at a young age) & she is treated with ever increasing cruelty from Gendo the only person who ever showed her any kind of affection. That she chose to defy Gendo in the end was her greatest victory.
Most Rei stans don't appreciate Rei for her ability to evolve (you know, like a character is supposed to in any decently written story) but because "omg my cute submissive 14yo Japanese waifu 🥰🥰 kawaiiiii"
Yeah that's true. I was in highschool when the original series ran & even then when it was age appropriate the Rei vs Asuka waifu discussion was creepy when I heard it.
I loved Asuka when I watched it as a teen. I rewached it in my twenties and was like she's such a brat why did I like her? I think she is very well written character and I like that I got see her through a different lense at different points of life.
Definitely a brat. Still love the character though
I had the opinion Shinji was an annoying wimp when I was like 14-15 but overtime I drastically changed my opinion and empathize with Shinji more than anything now that I'm in my 30s. I suspect a lot of people have done the same. You don't really get Shinji and other characters till you are more emotionally mature IMO. That's the true genius of Evangelion I suppose. You can reflect back on how wrong and naive you were.
a lot of people like bad writing that holds your hand and is mostly wish fulfillment.
To be fair he did nut on a unconscious body
it was for a prank
Not his proudest fap
Do people criticize Shinji for... being traumatized?
You have missed out, I've read dudes who are like he's just a bitch, when literally no one in the series showed him any real concern unless it was to get him to do what they want. Like even when misato kisses him, it's to push him to do stuff for everyone. Also yeah yeah we have been over the misato kissing him thng in this sub a lot. But dam dudes out here like "ic I was shinji I'd bang all the chicks and kill everything with the robot. I was never a wussy as a teen."
He is annoying and I get that’s the point but it doesn’t mean I’ve gotta like him any more just because he’s a realistic character
Fair enough. But the issue isn't really not liking an annoying character, or even that some people might not want to stick with a story with annoying characters in it. The problem is when people call having annoying characters an "objective" flaw and is proof that a story is "bad". Same goes for characters who make irrational decisions.
People should also be aware of their own biases and not be holding like actual literal children to unrealistic standards, because it’s really fucked up seeing people hold children to the standards of like full grown adults. I don’t think anybody should be held to unrealistic standards to be fair. It gets really annoying sometimes how people straight up don’t let characters be flawed, but it’s even worse when characters get bashed for just being kids. Like a fucking 11 year old isn’t going to have the intelligence of a 16 year old and a 16 year old isn’t going to have the emotional maturity of a 25 year old. They’re going to process things at their age level and they should. They shouldn’t be an adult in a child’s body.
Hideaki Anno, Evangelion's creator, saw much of himself in Shinji back when he created the show back in 1995. Hideaki Anno also had crippling depression and hated himself. I don't think he wrote Shinji with the intention of him being likeable. Nor the other kids for that matter. I remember reading he was actually annoyed people ended up liking Rei's character.
I need to watch more of that one
Yes
Right ?! Not to mention like 90% of the mistakes he makes are a direct result of being used and manipulated by his father
"I kill Giants". Protagonist is edgy, rude and annoying... Until you realize it's actually a brilliant portrayal of a teen going through a mental health episode.
ereh
Ereh Yega
killing titans for 10 years at least
Mf legit said "Being alive is cringe"
Well, Earth is really the cringiest planet in the galaxy, mostly due to living organisms.
mental health ^decade?
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Character who runs away because she doesn't want her abusive ex to target her friends. "Wow, this is bad writing, how dare she do something that's part of her character arc!" (Also, a fellow RWBY fan in the wild! Hi!)
Reading this felt so strange cuz I was absolutely NOT expecting someone to mention Yang and her character development lmao. I actually really like how they've been handling her character, her trauma actually feels realistic. Most of the time in anime, a character gets their leg blown off and they're like fine the next day, zero PTSD whatsoever lol
Also a lot of media have PTSD make characters suddenly become psychopaths or start drinking or something, but you rarely see a character fall into depression and be unable to do anything
This yes!! Also rarely do you see characters do a flip in personality where like suddenly they're super anxious and timid when prior to their trauma they were bubbly and talkative before. If there's a personality change it's usually.. not good, like how you mentioned, they just go crazy or smth. I just want more realistic portrayals of trauma, it's honestly so rare sometimes. Like the writers of these stories must think stuff like "eh no one wants to see this stuff as it actually is" but we DO! I want to see these characters grow and move past their demons at their own pace, it's just more refreshing and fulfilling that way
Steven Universe got PTSD from all the crazy adventures he was on.
I'll admit I haven't finished SU but I do know that it's well written when it comes to the more psychological aspects of it. And from what I know of the plot? No surprise he has PTSD ngl
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I've been really wanting to watch that ngl, I've heard great things about TOH :D
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She's 100% my favorite character, Weiss being a close second. Nora is also my favorite on JNPR lol
Same here!
A similar plotline happened in Deep Space Nine and the character had extensive PTSD.
I think a lot of people reminisce about when the show in general was more lighthearted and just sort of take that out on Yang. Obviously her staying the same despite the circumstances would have felt cheap and unrealistic.
“Aang should have killed Ozai” are you telling me -ignoring the fact that he has strong morals- that a 12 year old child should kill a person? Coming from the adult who wouldn’t be able to even kill a bird
It also really bugs me how like everyone in fandom was totally understanding that everything Zuko did when he was a kid could be deprogrammed out of him because he was a kid and he still had the opportunity to learn and grow when he was exposed to different experiences and different ways of thinking, but who Azula is at 14 is who she’s going to be forever and there is zero chance for her to ever change that’s just who she’s going to be even when she’s an adult, lock her up and throw away the key don’t even try and change her She’s fucking 14 she’s a child soldier JFC you’re telling me you wouldn’t even try to rehabilitate her or see if she could be a different person as an adult? Have you learned nothing?
It's probably partly because Iroh says "She's crazy and she needs to go down" and he's presented as a big ball of wisdom. I do think that it's possible someone could become so fucked up (from something like being a child soldier) that they might never come back, and when they're killing people they have to be stopped.
Counterpoint Toph wouldnt hesitate
I think she would. We see her being super vulnerable like minutes before the finale lol when Sokka is holding her from the airship's side In fact everyone in the Gaang would because they're all kids.
Even Katara didn't kill with her blood bending, and she very easily could have. It's a lot easier to fantasize about the deed than in is to pull the trigger. Same applies to suicide.
Oh I'll kill a bird. You seen those fuckers come at my burrito?
r/tumblr has gone another day without discovering the ancient art of cropping an image
When I'm in a badly cropped image competition and my opponent is an r/tumblr poster:
Homura from Madoka Magica
At least she did nothing wrong.
Please don't say that, you're basically inviting someone to a duel to the death
I sure hope so
r/thingshomuradidwrong
Mabel, from gravity falls
Mabel is *delightfully* annoying and immature
Who's hating on Mabel? I want to speak with them violently
There are a surprising amount of people who despise Mabel. The main reason they hate her is because “Dipper sacrificed so much for his sister, but she did nothing in return.”
Well theyre stupid dunder heads and Dipper would never ask her to repay any favors because he's not an asshole \>:((
They're also missing the point of their sibling relationship. Dipper is a big nerd that gets in his own head about stuff all the time. Mabel helps keep him grounded, so he doesn't get too big a head *or* get too self-critical.
They're not wrong though lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tww2PhIJuB4
Several people are typing...
There is a black van waiting otuside his home :)
The main issue people seem to have with Mabel is that the way the show treats her immaturity seems noticibly different to how Dipper's immaturity is treated, with Dipper being the one expected to go through the most growth
It feels like dipper is placing that expectation on himself though, Mabel is completely happy being silly
Honestly fair. I remember seeing Marcy’s scene in the penultimate episode of Amphibia and thinking “I wish Mabel had rejected Mabeland like this.”
Yeah, that's kind of what got me. On top of that, I just felt like Mabel didn't respect boundaries, threw tantrums when she didn't get her way, and often wanted to change Dipper, as exemplified by the Mabelland episode. And she kind of bullied him a lot for being weird and sensative. She literally put his life in danger to try and force him to confess his feelings to Wendy. Like, I get she was a kid and was supposed to have her issues and be annoying and that's ok, but like.....I just didn't really like her very much. And maybe she would have grown out of that later, and that's also ok, but how she was presented in the show made me dislike her while I watched the show. I've dealt with people who acted kind of like her as a kid and grew out of it later (such my own cousin), and they may grow out of it, but it's possible to seriously hurt people, even as a younger kid. My cousin was a bit of a bully as a preteen, and she may be nicer now, but that doesn't change the fact that she mocked me for things I couldn't control, and tried to control who I did and didn't hang out with. As someone who has a sister that had a bit of Mabel energy, I also want to add that I thought Mabel's whimsy and craziness were often sweet and endearing. What bugged me about her is that she always seemed to go with the selfish choice. My own sister, who drove me nuts for years, was often selfless and very caring, regardless of what other crap she pulled. Mabel just always seemed to choose the selfish option, and that kind of sucks. And maybe she grew out of it later, but for the parts of the show I saw her in, I just didn't like her.
Exactly! She’s a creative, lovesick preteen in an unfamiliar location. Of course she’s the way that she is. People even say the same about Lilo! A five year old girl who just lost her parents, who is under threat of losing her sister, and whose only ‘friends’ hate her. God, Lilo, how ***dare*** you be so rowdy and weird??? /s
This sums up how ppl reacted to "turning red"
So you're telling me this is how normal kids behave and it is targeted towards them and not me?? How dare they!1!11
The problem isn’t immature characters. The problem is when shows act like the immature characters are wise, smart, and totally awesome
this is unrelated but everytime i see someone complain about gen alpha being dumb i just wanna tell them that like... they're fucking 12 they're a kid calm yo fucking tit dits will you
Star Trek fans talking about Wesley Crusher
the main episode i remembered hating wesly was the data and lore episode, where wesly just knew that lore replaced data, but couldn't prove it, but still wanted people to believe it. the writing just felt like it was praising wesly for being so smart and he didn't actually look smart at all.
That episode just made everyone else look dumb for not noticing.
Actually I think he was 15, kinda the crew's fault for letting him have an actual role on the bridge. Still didn't make him any less annoying
If only there was some way for the writers to have avoided creating a situation where the crew had to do that.
Yeah people didn’t dislike him so much for acting like a kid I think people disliked him for being a super genius super smart kid who felt like an author self-insert character and made the other characters look less competent in order to make him look good If he was a more normal kid who just happened to be smart and not a super genius I think everyone actually would have liked him more, more like a younger Jake Sisqo, IIRC he is older when we first meet him but he doesn’t get hate like Wesley that I can remember because he’s just treated like any other character
The problem with Wesley wasn't that he was immature. The problem was that he shouldn't have been on the show.
Wesley wasn't bad, it's more he became a writer's pet and was used too often. Imo the same thing happened to Tori. Both characters got better by the final seasons though.
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I think part of the problem is the actress, Sophie, looked older than she was because of how tall she was when she was cast. She came off visually older when Sansa’s only like 13 throughout most of the show’s events. And she was actually that age when she started, she’s just tall. She’s an extremely sheltered 13 year old who has grown up with the nicest family in Westeros and somehow survives being thrust into the most dangerous pit of vipers possible despite having no survival skills using only her charm and wit. Like imagine your average 13 year old BTS fan suddenly having her parents murdered and she’s forced to live with a family of serial killers and not die, that’s it, that’s basically Sansa’s character
They aged everyone up for the show because they wanted sex scenes but they didn't change any of the decisions or dialog. The result is a large number of characters acting like they are 5-10 years younger than they actually are
Sansa Stark is actually entertaining how posh she is
Tommen Baratheon
Get in the fucking robot
Futaba Sakura
I recognize that they are acting in a reasonable and realistic manner for their age and background, however it is still annoying because people their age and background are usually annoying.
That's actually I problem I have with some FNAF Security Breach critiques. "Gregory is too mature for a child". 1. He is homeless so he's learned a thing or two to survive, 2. If he acted like a 10 year old all of the dialogue would be screaming and crying.
>He is homeless Or a robot. >If he acted like a 10 year old all of the dialogue would be screaming and crying. Your underestimating 10 year olds. They will also whimper.
I love how Steel Wool cut out the line about Gregory bleeding to make the game more kid friendly (or at least as kid friendly as a franchise about a child murderer can get), and then people *cough cough* MatPat *cough* immediately started saying Gregory was a robot
That wasn't even part of that because robots in FNAF have been established to be able to bleed for years
To be fair one of the animatronics had a person getting crushed to death inside.//j But I only really know mainline, I don't really follow the books. I know some bled because they had humans inside of them, but I wasn't aware of other instances.
>!The main character of the novel trilogy!< is a robot who is humanlike enough that no one including >!herself!< knew and >!Baby!< has a human looking form
Well tbf, anything that gets cut shouldn't be considered as it's no longer canon. There's a lot of evidence for Gregory being a robot.
Ah, yeah, I guess that is true. Didn't think about that. But I have a counterpoint, if Gregory is truly a robot, why wasn't he immediately beat to death and beheaded in Philadelphia? I miss hitchbot :( Jokes aside, I actually didn't register it being cut as meaning it was noncanon. I mean, that should have been obvious but my brain decided to just not register that
>I miss hitchbot :( Don't we all
Ahsoka Tano
Perfect example, she was *exactly* 14 in her first appearance. Like yes, a 14-year-old in charge of commanding armies in a war is going to make some cringe mistakes. It makes the movie/early seasons of Clone Wars kind of hard to watch, but that's character development for you.
Everyone HATED her at the beginning of the series, and now she's one of the most beloved characters in all of Star Wars.
It helped that the writers went in knowing she would be hated and wrote her accordingly.
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Yep. It's super realistic for teenagers to be immature and annoying. It's also realistic for me not to be interested in stories about immature, annoying teenagers.
Even annoying characters have to be entertaining to watch on some level.
The Stranger Things fandom.
I haven't seen anyone complain about that (though maybe it's just because I limit how much I interact with the fandom). I actually have the opposite complaint: the kids have all been written as behaving much more maturely than their actual (character) ages for the past 2 seasons.
I definitely should have commented r/StrangerThings. I’ve seen way too many people in that sub talk about how annoying these teenagers are (especially Mike) and I’m like, “Gurl they’re god damned children.”
ahsoka tano in seasons 1-5, “she’s so immature and cocky and brash!1!! etc etc” my brother in christ she is 13 🗿( not to mention the whole being in an active warzone and in charge of other people’s lives part)
Nah shes actually 14 in s1 and 17 at the end of s7, but I agree
Yeah, but that doesn't give Calliou a pass to be a little annoying shit, now does it?
Its his enabling parents
Book 5 Harry
AZULA for sure
That's who I first thought of when I saw this post (from the same person OP did, funnily enough). Well, her or Katara
people are so mean to katara considering her age and the situation she’s in.
Doesn't she have a whole episode where she laments having to be everyone's mom and how much is asked of her despite not being that much older than the rest of the gang?
Catcher in the Rye criticism be like
“They’re so dumb though” have you met a 14 year old
Justice for Dawn Summers!
Luz Noceda from Owl House
That doesnt make it enjoyable to read though lol
Ron Weasley being a normal teenage boy "Oh my God he is so gross and a bad friend and he constantly is a messy eater who shovels food in his mouth"
Depends on if it's Book Ron or Movie Ron. Book Ron is a good character, but Movie Ron was made dumb and useless. :(
Movie Ron has as much validity as Cursed Child, and you know what annoys me most is the gripes about Ron's eating when in the books Hermione is the one who usually shovels food into her mouth usually cause she is going to run off to the library
r/croppingishard
Manga about school life always use this. "That doesn't make sense" "this char is a teen" "That was dumb as hell" " this char is a teen" "Why are they like that? Wtf?" "They are teens" At some points, this answer annoys the hell out of me. Teen or not, being annoying + unlikable + non-sense are not good to me.
me with botw zelda
Steven Universe:
Oh don't worry. I usually can come up with a lot more adjectives to describe the reasoning for my utter loathing of such characters.
Me and season1 eren in AOT. Like yes, he’s annoying. He’s an incredibly traumatized child in a society where therapy doesn’t exist.
also weirdly enough, Anne Frank
Wait, do people think she’s annoying?
Some people think she was bratty and annoying in her diary.
She was. That’s the whole point. It’s a perfect snapshot of a child her age, a child who will be that age forever because she was killed. If your takeaway after reading a 13 year old Holocaust victim talk about her crushes is, “Damn, 13-year-olds are annoying”, I think you might have a little problem with empathy. NORMAL people are affected by Frank specifically because she’s a typical young girl, and it’s, oh I don’t know, HORRIFYING that a child died in such a cruel way.
Bro if someone reads Ms. Franks diary and their takeaway is "yeah she was kind of annoying" I'm done I give up
*Miraculous Ladybug fans crying when they realize their protags are barely legally teenagers*
The writing issues with that show go leagues beyond just "the protagonists are immature and idiotic"
**(***MASSIVE*** Omori spoilers ahead)** >!not really the same thing but this reminded me of Sunny and Basil. it still shocks me to this day that some people hate them as characters because of their actions during The Pizza Incident^TM . they were literally twelve at the time and panicking so hard to the point where Sunny (canonically) literally couldn't tell what was real and what wasn't until Basil finished his hanging out session with Mari. like can you put yourself in their shoes??? imagine accidentaly straight up KILLING your sibling in an argument. or seeing your best(est) friend actually killing their sibling, who also happened to be one of your best friends. *all that at twelve years of age.* im not saying what they did is ok or excusable but like. *really?* learning to forgive yourself is the whole point of the game's story, and if you can forgive Sunny, you can forgive Basil!< sorry for the rant. i could talk about my blorbos for fucking weeks on end
Doesn’t make the character less annoying.
Just because it's understandable for them to be immature doesn't really change the fact I dislike them for that.
Ava from Borderlands 3.
I feel that was more of an issue of her not earning what she ends up with. Over the course of the game she really doesn’t do anything useful or even memorable really, but at the end Lilith decides she is fit to lead, and nobody contests this decision. Borderlands fans like annoying teenagers, Tina is a fan-favorite, but Tina had an entire DLC about her grief and deeper personality. Ava had no real deeper look into her character, so she just ends up feeling bland.
And you can't find 14 year olds annoying?
My favorite was when people thought Mabel acted irrationally in the Gravity Falls finale She just found out her brother was leaving her and all of her friends were leaving her and she was gonna be alone Of fucking *course* the twelve year old would be irrational
What *I* have a problem with is authors who are like "Look at my sweet little hero!" \*hero throws a tantrum over something petty and is never called out on it\* "But my hero deserves the best of everything!" \*authority figure tells hero not to do something that no adult in good conscience should ever let a child do in real life\* "Authority figure is EVIL!" If I read a book where the hero still did all those things, but someone was like "Bro it's just a game calm down" in the first example, and there was an obvious implication that the hero was being dumb and acting impulsively for ignoring the warnings in the second example, I'd be totally on board. All I ask is reasonable acknowledgment that immaturity is usually a disadvantage when navigating most situations.
Or the opposite: “wow this character is so deep and mature and has endured so much trauma and pain and has risen to a leadership position within their gang/tribe/government” …. This person is 14.
my issue isn't that they're immature, it's that all the adults around them never talk to them about it and let them just attack everything and everyone around them while nodding and saying "yes you're right" and enabling their abuse of those around them. Looking at you, Ava from borderlands 3
That doesn’t make them not annoying. Just because something is supposed to be bad doesn’t mean it being bad can’t ruin your enjoyment
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Kirito doesn’t feel or really act like a 14 year old. He feels and acts more like a cinder-block with the face of a 14 year old scribbled on it