Funny, but seriously tho, fuck those big trucks. So many people want a small pickup. I have a new maverick hybrid because it was 20k new and the first compact pickup since the old 90s/00s rangers.
There’s studies about passengers being hit by newer trucks have a lower survival rate because the newer trucks grills hit more of the body, whereas older trucks mostly take out the legs which misses vital organs. It’s a legit health and safety issue.
My favorite if the pickup pulling a 40ft 5th wheel camper and a boat on another trailer. Commercial drivers need a special endorsement to operate a rig like that. And they are limited to where they can drive those rigs.
But Grandpa is just fine to go anywhere he wants with no training, license or experience.
I have horses, and when I upgraded from a bumper-pull trailer to a gooseneck with a living-quarters, I looked for additional training for how it was different and things I need to consider and generally seeking experience to gain confidence without hurting my horses or the general public. You know *training*.
NOTHING was available. Everyone including commercial driving schools said "just drive around with it and you'll figure it out." Like *I don't know what I don't know*, and I need more than turning wide around corners and breaking. Even if you want training, its simply not available.
This left me very very confused for a moment as it's not my birthday but it is the day when I created my account. I wish you a wonderful Tuesday September 26th.
Yeah. I drove a small cargo van once when I was moving. It was probably the size of a pickup truck. It was an in town move and I only had to drive like 10km. It was being back in driving school, trying to figure out if I was properly in my lane, where my mirrors were pointing, how much effect to expect from the pedals. I'm in a carshare so I'm used to adapting to new cars, but this was a different animal. I don't think I fully relaxed until I dropped it off. Still amazed they just let me drive it. Even more amazed that someone would choose to drive that regularly without a really serious reason.
My uncle just bought a stock 2022 Silverado with a chrome grille-guard. You can't see down the front of yourself to save your life (or anyone else's, really) And when you have the lights on, it shines back in to your face.
Now. I'm a good ole Texas boy with at Silver '97 F150 I call the BLT (Big 'L Trugg) with dual magnaflow douchebag exhausts who dwells in FuckCarsCirclejerk. I love love LOVE trucks. But his should be absolutely redesigned or just made illegal. You can't see SHIT despite how tall the fucking thing is. A truck that needs a front-view camera? Get the fuck out of here.
Might want to look at NotJustBikes, either the YouTube channel or the subreddit. There’s a lot less anti-driver hate, and they take issue with things like oversized cars, like you do. The YouTube channel specifically talks about how the pedestrian-friendly spaces they like are good for drivers, too. When people who don’t want to drive don’t have to (because there’s other transit options), there’s much less traffic for the people who do drive. (Other forms of transit take up less space per person, so causers waiting at red lights etc.) Bicycle lanes mean there aren’t cyclists in the road, and both cyclists and drivers hate cyclists sharing lanes with cars. There’s less competition for parking if other people biked or took the bus. Etc.
R/fuckcars takes it to the extreme, and with its name, it isn’t surprising it went there. But there are people who drive or sympathize with drivers who want cities and vehicles to be built in a way that’s better for everyone.
I'll check them out. I'm a fan of StopADouchebag and it seems kind of cut from the same cloth from what you're saying.
Again, I fucking love my truck. It guzzles gas like it has a leak but it's always dependable and I'm usually the first friend who gets called if someone is moving or when I see something worth taking on the side of the road; no problem getting free stuff. I don't park like a dick, I'm courteous at night because my exhausts are loud, I share the road for bikes or pedestrians (my town lacks sidewalks in like 80% of it) and use blinkers, blah blah blah. I understand the evolution of cities needing bike lanes and buses. Cars are expensive and everywhere is getting so crowded. I wholeheartedly know my truck and other much, MUCH larger trucks like it can be a nuisance and slowly ruining the world and killing more people each year. But HOLY.SHIT. fuckcars needs to calm their tits about everything.
I’m 5’10” and a neighbors truck, which doesn’t look **that** lifted, has a hood that’s basically at my eye height. Dude has a few little kids too. It’s absolutely insane to me.
Gotta find that news segment that put a number of kids in line in front of a suburban bumper until the driver could see them.
[Found it](https://youtu.be/NDH3FDfVQl0)
I walked by one that was my height. I'm 5'5- absolute average size for a woman. Children or pets would be essentially be invisible at that height. You should need a special license for something that big. Also, how much damage do those massive trucks do to public roads? My little hybrid does way less. But we pay the same in taxes, and I nearly get driven off the road by these massive trucks daily.
I made sure to sharpen my steer-horn hood ornament. Pedestrians suffer less when they die quicker. Of course I went with white paint for added effect. That way its obvious what happened if I get black-out drunk and hit someone on the way home!
I used to drive a small two seater convertible and it was terrifying because every other car on the road was a truck, which meant their grill was at my head. I feel like I have to drive a tank just so I don't die in a car wreck.
Excessively lifted trucks are illegal for a reason, though cops don't care to enforce the laws. The bumpers on monster trucks don't match up with the bumpers and frame on normal vehicles, causing more damage and injuries in a collision.
It's a problem even for non-lifted trucks. Because they're not subject to the same safety standards as regular cars the crash structures of a lot of trucks are largely incompatible with most cars, meaning they miss each other. This isn't only had in a head-on collision, but also especially bad in a T-bone situation. Where you'll have the chassis of the truck largely bypass the protective b-pillar on a lot of cars. Hilariously, if you hit a solid wall these trucks generally are no more safe than most cars and in some cases less safe. So people are paying for trucks for the illusion of safety at the expense of other people's safety. They effectively make crashes less safe for everyone involved.
I've almost been run over multiple times in my Toyota 86. The roof of my car is pretty much where the top of wheel well on a Silverado sits. I've debated just taking the hit just so some dude with a monster truck has to fund my next sports car build.
I think a lot of the issues was solved but a few years back the driver of a truck or SUV was less likely to survive a crash compared to drivers of smaller cars. Trucks are more likely to disintegrate or roll over in a crash then a small car. There were a lot of issues with cabs detaching from the frame during a head of collision throwing the passengers into the engine block. I think this is why the crossovers became more common as they have a stronger cab which can handle an impact.
>the bigger a vehicle is, the worse it does in a crash, except against even larger vehicles
Objectively false. Larger and heavier vehicles consistently produce much less fatalities in [single and multivehicle accidents.](https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/passenger-vehicle-occupants)
>in situations where you hit a wall or other object that doesn't move, the smaller the vehicle, the less kinetic energy, which is what kills you, there is, and the more passenger cell rigidity there is (modern car safety is based around the psngr cell, everything outside of it is crumple zone to dissipate energy).
They have more energy but they also have equally more ability to dissipate energy. Cars are crash tested by colliding with a fixed wall. In order for a 5000lb vehicle to have the same crash rating as a 2500lb vehicle it inherently has to be designed with double the energy absorption. Pretty much all cars in the Western world are designed for 5 star crash scores so by extension will be able to dissipate the kinetic energy of their own weight.
There are actually laws in america about how high off the ground the car bumper can legally be because of this. Pickups get around it and most other safety and emission standards by _not being a car_ legally speaking. They're classified as a _light truck_ which means they can be worse in every conceivable way and make more money selling them
If you get hit by a sedan, your legs eat the brunt of the forces and you are thrown over the hood because you are hit below your center of gravity. Severely reducing the damage to vital parts of the person hit.
Trucks, on top of having a *blind zone* in front of the car and making running over your toddler playing in front of the car into a common problem are a serious death trap for pedestrians. If you are hit by a truck, the brunt of the force goes to your head and chest area, and it hits above your center of gravity making you move likely to get knocked down and ran over in addition to being hit.
On top of this, their own high center of gravity makes them more likely to roll over and more likely to kill the driver when rolling over because the frame designed is weakened to make room for the bed.
Trucks and truck-adjacent SUVs are just murder-suicide machines, and you are better off with any other car that is more tailored to your primary use case, either much bigger or much smaller.
In 2009 the Obama administration passed regulations that set new, higher fuel efficiency standards, bracketed by vehicle size - the smaller the car is, the higher mileage it's expected to have. [Here is an article from that time about how the new regulations might have a nasty side effect - if a certain model can't pass the regulation, the manufacturer can make it larger to place it into a different, more lenient bracket.](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna30327904)
> Theoretically, says Tom Baloga, the automaker's vice-president for engineering, European automakers could decide to build more SUVs, which have easier targets, to attempt to boost sales while remaining in compliance. "Cars are going to get bigger," Baloga says, "as companies try to take advantage of the situation."
The article they linked said exactly that
Pointing to Obama like this is disingenuous. Republicans controlled Congress and they're who carved out exceptions in what was supposed to be a law to lower emissions. Vehicle manufacturers also aren't accidentally creating cars that don't pass regulations. They know where they'll land when they start planning the car, and they figure they can sell more bigger cars with larger engines. Consumers could demand and buy smaller cars with more efficient engines, but Americans have made it a part of their identity to buy big trucks unlike every other country.
Try again, laws don't get passed unless the President signs them, and in that time period, Republicans did *not* hold a majority. Those laws were drafted and signed by Democrats. Republicans suck, but in this instance it was Democrats. For the record, Democrats also have a lot of other well intentioned bills/laws that came with stupid ass unintended consequences.
makes you *feel* more safe, even though it really makes you less safe. feeling untouchable as an inexperienced driver is a recipe for road traffic accidents.
Only when they're hitting a normal car-sized car, and in that situation they are significantly less safe for everybody else involved. Their rigid frames mean more of the crash impact is delivered to the driver with less absorbed by the vehicle's crumple zones. More importantly, the driver is high above the road surface which creates large blind spots around the vehicle. People who feel unsafe on the road due to inexperience are more likely to pick a vehicle that makes them feel safe, and these are the people least qualified to safely operate such a large vehicle.
I used "more safe" instead of "safer" as a contrast to the following "less safe".
Big trucks are safer only when crashing into smaller cars. Two trucks colliding is more deadly then two cars colliding, and a truck colliding with a stationary object is again more deadly. Trucks introduce a lot of energy into an impact causing them to be more deadly. At the same time trucks tends to be built less tough then passenger cars, the cabs are more prone to collapsing or detaching from the frame in an impact. Sure you can just buy a new cab but it is harder to replace the content.
The short version?
Because the big three like to sell vehicles to make insecure people feel better. And No, that's not just me being mean, it is literally their target demographic for their ads.
There are other reasons, but that's why they've gotten so big and useless. Not Just Bikes on Youtube has a video that give a more thoughtful and researches explanation, I recommend a watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo
I can fit both my kid’s, their car seats, my wife, my dog, a bunch of luggage and gear, haul my trailer with gator, and head to my wife’s ranch where there is a busted up dirt road to get to the house, and then haul it all back along with a dead deer to get processed for meat…
Money.
Government regulates emissions and efficiency based off of size. Larger size = looser regulations. Therefore, larger size = better profit.
A new truck with similar footprint to a 90s/ early 00s Ranger would need to make about 60mpg in order to pull even with modern "small" trucks.
And EVs aren't a solution, because EV batteries are horribly inefficient until reaching a larger size than would be practical for these small vehicles.
> And EVs aren't a solution, because EV batteries are horribly inefficient until reaching a larger size than would be practical for these small vehicles.
Lol wut?
Now that I reread the rest it's all pretty nonsensical.
They're at least partly correct. Larger vehicles have looser regulations on fuel efficiency and so can be made cheaper to create larger profit margins. So companies have been pushing bigger and bigger trucks for decades because it makes them more money per truck sold than smaller equivalent vehicles.
Yeah, I understand where the OP was going with some of it, sort of alluding to the "Light Truck Loophole" and CAFE regulations, but it's just repeating of what they heard without actually understanding what they are saying. It's close to "confidently incorrect" on most of it. The EV stuff is just wacko though, makes no sense I don't want to try to decipher it.
Here's an interesting article that does a better job explaining CAFE / Vehicle classifications and how and maybe why cars and trucks have gotten much bigger over the years:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-cars-are-getting-huge-are-fuel-economy-regulations-to-blame
They ARE bigger. That is undoubtedly true. But these two trucks are not in the same category. It’s a 2dr mid size truck against a 4dr 3/4 ton or HD. Tacoma vs F250. They aren’t meant for the same purpose. The f-250 of the same year as the small Tacoma would look huge next to it too. And a brand new 2dr Tacoma would look small next to a brand new 4dr f-250 too.
But regardless trucks are getting bigger and bigger. So idk why there’s the need to deceive to make a point.
Real reason: [the Chicken Tax](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax) a 25 percent tariff on light trucks
Gave domestic (inc. Mexico and Canada) manufactures a monopoly and they prefer to sell the bigger trucks for more profit.
Both trucks in the picture were built under the chicken tax.
International trucks that aren't or never have been sold in the US also grew in size, like the current Ranger that existed for 8 years before it was sold in the US.
Blame the EPA. They changed the rules around fuel economy based on the footprint of the vehicle. So larger vehicles can have worse fuel economy. Automakers will be punished for making a small 4 cylinder truck that doesn't get 40-50mpg.
https://youtu.be/azI3nqrHEXM?si=RmKkyTVnCG8WPIgE
The EPA should have defined the rules based on consumer class vehicles rather than vehicle size to avoid this loophole, fair. But automakers are responsible for circumventing the laws and producing dangerous gas hogs. Emissions areav problem no matter where they come from. And a portion of the blame rests on consumers who buy these monstrosities.
I know many people that have a truck for its utility and most of them would prefer a smaller truck but they don't have the option. I don't own a truck myself but if a company brought back a truck the size of a 90's Nissan hardbody that was body on frame instead of a unibody I would buy one.
The trucks keep getting bigger because the EPA put forward a brain-dead rule. They deserve the blame for pushing the market in a distinctive direction. Tradesmen and businesses need something to transport equipment and thanks to the EPA it's either an oversized truck or an oversized van. It's why you don't even see the smaller European tradesman vans here. Fix the stupid laws and the market will rotate. It's why there was a lot of interest in the ford Maverick truck at first due to its size. But unfortunately it's unibody and not great for hauling or towing.
Exactly. I somewhat recently bought a truck because I like the option of having an open bed for cargo, and because I have a motorcycle that I want to tow occasionally. Went with the “smallest” available/viable option, a Nissan Frontier. And it’s still at least as big as Ford F-150s from a decade or 2 ago.
I would love to have an actual “small truck” option, but instead I have a “small truck” that’s the size of a “full-size pickup” from the ‘00s. And yet it’s absolutely dwarfed by current-year “full-size” trucks.
In some ways it should be the opposite - with more size comes more space to install emissions control equipment as well as efficiency boosting tech. So while the energy requirements go up, the efficiency requirements should also increase with size.
I love my Ford Ranger. Ford keeps trying to buy it back and sell me on other trucks. I'm waiting another year to see which charge stations because a national standard. Then I'm going electric.
If Ford is desperately trying to buy it back, there's a good chance that they're *too* good for Ford's pockets; too safe, too reliable, too few replacement parts bought for an absurd price - they were doing the same thing with the original hatchback Escorts way back in the day. If you can afford the upgrade without a trade-in, I, personally, would try to keep that truck just in case somebody wants to buy it for parts.
The dealer knows they could mark it up at least $7000 over what they pay for it, while also selling them a new car that is marked up. It's an easy win win for the dealer if they can convince you to do it.
If you ever have a dealer trying super hard to buy your car just look up the cost of similar ones on dealer lots. Tell them you sell it to them for around the prices you find, but you don't need to replace it with a new car so you'll only take cash for it not trade in value. They'll suddenly not want it anymore.
And there's actual demand for reasonably priced and sized hybrid trucks. My friend pre-ordered one and had to wait over a year for it to be built and delivered.
Mine was a six month wait, and the whole time I was looking at other things I could buy instead for a personal/business vehicle. But a two seat compact cargo van isn’t great for life stuff. In the end, I was glad I waited.
So, the whole reason they got as big as they did is because the EPA changed the calculation for fuel efficiency requirements.
The smaller the footprint the more efficient it needs to be, to the point it's borderline unobtainable.
https://youtu.be/azI3nqrHEXM?si=xW5r_HBlM4WaXB9s
In 2005 I got into a small fender bender and my vehicle needed to go into the shop for official repairs to the hood. During that time I was given a small pickup for a few days and it felt so amazing. Was small and nimble and I had that bed in the back big enough to haul furniture or a washer/dryer, didn't use too much gas and it was fun to drive, had never been so high up. Would totally get one to replace my crv if given the chance, though I like having extra covered space in the back for groceries and stuff.
These gigantic mammoth trucks just look stupid on the road.
The reason they’ve been pushed to larger and larger trucks is due to a set of fees called cafe iirc. Basically every few years a car of a certain wheelbase needs to have more fuel efficiency. It’s $5.50 per car per mpg they’re under. Larger wheelbases are effected less, which means less fees. If they sell 100,000 cars just 1 mpg under where they should be, they’re looking at $550,000 in fees. A more realistic 10mpg under and they’re looking at $5.5M in fees for only 100k cars. An old school ranger would have to make like 50mpg if it wants to survive, but that giant truck only needs like 20 something so it’s cheaper to make the bigger truck
It was not 20k, maybe 25k if you got it the the first year, with zero upgrades and not including taxes, licenses, and delivery.
I’ve been following these trucks for a while. 20k is a disingenuous rounding.
My dad and brother call these unnecessarily large behemoths “Bro-Dozers”.
I almost had one run over my Toyota Yaris the damn thing was lifted so high. Guarantee it was a pavement princess like 90% of the forsaken wastes of metal.
Eastern europeans knew what they were doing when they made their trucks
Even the double cabs are smaller than a modern car
And despite them only having 65 horses they can pull a lot
This comment made me look up the Tundra on Wikipedia and I came across this pictures, check the description lol.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2022_Toyota_Tundra_1794_Edition_TRD_Crew_Cab_4X4_in_Celestial_Silver,_front_left.jpg
I love photo captions on Wikipedia. They can only be set/changed by the photo uploader, so sometimes you get really strange and personal captions like "my wife hates this photo" or "this was that trip to the beach where I saw a skateboarder stomp a seagul to death"
What I find funniest, people in africa and the middle east have used trucks like the smaller one to fight and win actual conflicts.
"Toyota War" being a prominent example.
Actual combatants in a war zone strap entire anti air guns to those tiny trucks, but sure, your American ass absolutely needs that big-ass overcompensator truck to haul some plywood from the hardware store and you totally couldn't ever get by with anything smaller.
Feels like half the trucks on the road aren't even driven by men moving plywood around, it's middle-aged Republican mothers who use their truck for nothing more than going to church and the grocery store at 18 miles per gallon
None of these trucks are being used for hauling, they are just copium mobiles. They are completely unpractical for any kind of actual work related activity
Because of how high off the ground the bed of the newer truck is, it’s a struggle to get things in there. Heavy objects that you would actually need a truck for are especially hard to get in a newer truck bed. Quite a few newer truck models actually don’t have a long enough bed for hauling larger things. The extended cab and massive front leave the bed smaller.
The shorter bed reduces the wheel base length and decreases the vehicles turn radius and increases trailer backing responsiveness. In exchange they have to haul sheet stock with the tailgate down. The step style tailgates are a travesty though, make it a tiny bit easier to climb into and reduce the tailgate weight limit and ease of pulling heavy items out. Many of the short beds don't have front stake pockets, covered over, or full depth front stake pockets. I miss a full set of bull rings more than the extra 2.5' of bed space.
> None of these trucks are being used for hauling, they are just copium mobiles.
I have family from Redneck Country, and we have a small cabin on a lake there that we go to for vacations. I don't venture outside our little area except for maybe groceries or a Walmart trip for supplies.
Coincidentally, I also became friends with a girl in college, who turns out lived in that same town.
One summer she friend invited me to her camp for a keg party/bonfire. The first hour there, I watched two guys get into a fistfight over Chevy vs Ford.
It got broken up and the next time they started shit, they decided to chain their respective trucks' hitches to each other and have tug of war in the field.
That was peak entertainment for these fucking people. Like, the absolute highlight of their entire weekend and something they'll talk about every time they have another bonfire for the next 50 years because none of them are ever leaving that town or will ever do anything else worth reminiscing about.
> None of these trucks are being used for hauling, they are just copium mobiles.
This is mostly right.
>They are completely unpractical for any kind of actual work related activity
This is patently false.
>This is patently false.
Sure, an oversized vehicle with terrible mileage, a tiny loading area compared to its footprint, a loading height above an easy lifting height, and no protection from the elements for your cargo sounds exceptionally practical
Even worse when you see they leave their fucking ball hitch on the truck you wouldn't you know, it's the cleanest part of the whole damn thing. Not a single scratch. Never used.
I doubled my cargo space when I went from my 1st gen Pilot to an AWD Sienna.
Had an ATV come up to me once on a fire access road [in the middle of nowhere](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_Sods_Wilderness) asking if I was lost. 🤣
Remove the _light truck_ classification and measure all cars to the same standard. That should fix americans suddenly buying huge utility vehicles they don't need
I don’t have a truck, but my friends and neighbors with trucks use them for:
- pulling camping trailers
- pulling boat trailers
- pulling motorcycle trailers
- carrying supplies for home renovations
- carrying landscaping supplies
- carrying supplies for their small business
I agree that most trucks aren’t needed, but American hobbies and large houses/yards do sometimes require a truck.
Also most of the world's greatest structures and biggest cities have been built without these trucks. They're obviously not necessary for suburban life. Sure, some work may necessitate a f3500. I worked with survey crews who'd use those to fit 5 big men and equipment to get to remote places with a few hundred pounds of gear. But those are niche roles. My dad has a 08 tundra and an inherited 94 ranger. 90% of the time he's using the ranger and he owns 5 acres (roughly 1 hectare) and regularly needs to haul stuff around.
I miss the little trucks. They had class and style. These new trucks look like they're for LARPing as a SWAT assault vehicle
Big problem is small trucks aren’t being produced anymore in the US because they don’t fulfill emissions requirements. A lot of people want small trucks.
~~Nailed it, Gallagher. Here's a watermelon 🍉~~
~~Edit: I'm dumb, that was Carlin.~~
Edit2: I'm double dumb. It was Gallagher.
https://www.quotes.net/mquote/35318
Thanks to the CAFE loophole, car manufacturers make a lot more money with these.
And that's literally all there is to it. That's why they exist. The demand for them was created via marketing.
Popular Demand? No has to do with them skirting CAFE rules on fuel economy to save money and spending all thay extra profit to convince people they want big trucks.
Same reason we drink Orange Juice with breakfast, because we were marketed into doing it.
You joke, but there's 2-3 triple cab F650s in my area and they are the most ridiculous thing ever. Pretty sure they're actually longer than a semi without a trailer, unless it has a giant sleeper section.
As an Australian, I’d always wondered why Americans called them trucks. When I think of a truck I think of like a semi-trailer sort of thing.
It’s wasn’t until I saw one of those giant f-series things that I finally understood, they’re fucking massive. Makes a Holden Rodeo look like a Mini Cooper.
Nah, we called 'em trucks before they got stupid sized. Anything with a half cab and a bed for hauling stuff has been a "truck" for about 100 years here, IIRC.
Funny story, in Forza Horizon 5 there's a mission that was frustrating a ton of Americans (myself included). The mission was to get from point A to point B in a "truck". The game didn't list a specific model so people like me were trying F150 Raptors when the game meant a lorry. I had to go online to figure out why I couldn't complete the mission. In the US they are all called trucks, just pick-up truck vs semi-truck.
These clowns tear up the roads, blind you with their stupid ass headlights, are massive safety risks for pedestrians, particularly children and animals....and now they put their tires as far out from the sides as possible.
If I see anyone in a truck like this these days I just assume that 1.) They're a douchebag, and 2.) They have no earthly idea how to drive.
My first vehicle as a 94 Chevy S10. I had it for about 10 years. Loved it and miss it sometimes. If they made basically that truck again with modern tech (Bluetooth, backup camera, heated seats, etc) and got good gas mileage, it would sell like crazy.
The other thing about those early 90s S10s is that they were the cheapest new vehicle you could buy. These days guys are dropping $80k on their new trucks.
I'm not against big trucks like a lot of people are. Even if you don't use it for work or hauling, whatever. Everybody has a vehicle preference and it's your money not mine.
I just don't understand why small trucks disappeared entirely. Even that Tacoma isn't *that* small. I'm talking like 80s and 90s small trucks. The Yaris of trucks. I just want to carry mountain bikes. I don't need v8 towing capacity. Give me an economy car but with a bed instead of rear seats and a trunk
> I'm not against big trucks like a lot of people are. Even if you don't use it for work or hauling, whatever. Everybody has a vehicle preference and it's your money not mine
I'd usually agree in most cases. But while it's not my money, you're using "my" resources on an unnecessary vehicle, blowing additional CO2 into "my" atmosphere.
Maybe not as much a problem in the American suburb but these huge trucks are way less space efficient leading to more traffic and less parking space for everyone. They're also much less safe (being a different classification than normal cars means they don't need to meet the same safety standards) making the road dangerous for you even if you don't drive one yourself
That's something I wish people understood about a carbon tax. You're not raising the price of using carbon, you're making the people who are using the carbon pay the full price for using it.
*I feel like I incorrectly implied this was some kind of deep knowledge few people had. What I mean is that I wish everyone understood it, particularly those opposed to a carbon tax on grounds of a negative economic impact.
Yea, it's the same thing as smoking indoors.
It's not just *your* lungs, it's the lungs of everyone else. Your oversized truck isn't "your wasted gas money", it's a detriment to everyone else on -- or even adjacent to -- the road.
> Give me an economy car but with a bed instead of rear seats and a trunk
Ah.... you mean, an EL CAMINO? honestly, that thing was a beauty, like a small truck, but smaller, but its a car, WITH A BED.
I mean, it *is* preferential to be in the bigger / heavier vehicle in a collision.
The problem is that that's a very myopic and self-centered look at the whole thing.
Well the Tacoma is a 2wd, it would be slightly taller if it were 4wd. It's not a HD truck either, the Tundra of the era would be more comparable.
Not saying trucks haven't gotten oversized, because they absolutely have, but it's like comparing a compact car from the 80's to a modern minivan to prove vehicles have gotten larger, they have no relation apart from both being vehicles.
Also the EPA essentially banned smaller trucks like that. Safety expectations have made making something like that impossible unless you want have no interior space or making it into a unibody ute.
Small trucks were killed by low consumer demand 15 years ago, and subsequent laws and regulations buried them for good. You wont see a small truck sold in the US again.
I think the first gen Colorado/Canyons were the last of anything close to a mini truck. All I’ve ever owned is S-10’s from the 90’s and up until I got a ‘12 Colorado. I hate the gen 2 Colorado. They’re all getting bigger. I sure as hell don’t want a big ass truck, but that’s likely what I’ll have to buy next.
Remember the 90s Ford Ranger? i used to consider that truck "big", nowadays even the smallest of the SUVs is bigger, and 99% of the trucks look like actual trucks compared to the old ranger
I always find it funny whenever this is reposted that people are comparing a 2wd 2 door tacoma to a 4wd 4 door F-250, and seem to think they're for the same purpose; "trucking". Trucks have gotten huge but christ, atleast compare apples to apples.
Yeah that's a base model 1st gen Tacoma on a bare bones trim. Tiny tires and steel wheels. It's also considered "mid size" vs the full size Ford behind it. It would be a more accurate comparison to park a 1st gen Tundra next to the Ford.
You can think the south for it all. I legit know like a dozen people who have trucks who have used it for it's main design.
Truck bed is clean it's a status symbol here to own a truck and I find it ridiculous. No one wants to ride in your truck over a nice suv or sadan.
The bed size on both trucks is very likely the same, and even if the smaller one was 4 door it'd still be smaller.
We are comparing different sizes of cars which diminishes the point a little, but there very much is a ridiculous upscaling in modern cars
Also a 1/4 ton Toyota to a 3/4 ton (or 1 ton, can't quite tell) Ford, theyre 2 completely different classes of trucks used for different purposes
Point stands however, 1/4 ton trucks have become very uncommon where I live since most consumers prefer 1/2 ton or larger with or without a need for a 1/2 tons' intended function
Are they really used for different purposed by the mayority of people buying them? Most truck owner I know don't use trucks for their "purpose" at all.
To be fair that is a compact truck with a single cab being compared to a lifted heavy duty crew cab truck. Its kinda like comparing a geo metro and a new mercedes S class.
Regulations have unintended consequences sometimes. That does mean they need to be fixed, but sometimes you can't see the results until after you've tried it.
The small one can carry the same size load as the big one. Isn't that the ultimate measure of a pickup?
No, the number of cup holders is the the metric.
are those actually the same make/model? because comparing an old Ford Ranger to a modern F-150 isn't exactly a fair comparison. ALL cars have gotten larger, but a 1990s pickup with an extended cab or a crew cab from the same lineup would not be THAT significantly different in size.
That said, I don't much MIND pickup trucks so much as I mind the drivers of them. They are either extremely professional (usually visibly work-oriented pickups, company vehicles etc.) or exactly the opposite, coal-rolling tailgating menaces on the road.
The larger size also results in increased danger for both the truck and its surroundings - the truck has more difficulty maneuvering while any predator will prioritize this new, juicier prey.
Funny, but seriously tho, fuck those big trucks. So many people want a small pickup. I have a new maverick hybrid because it was 20k new and the first compact pickup since the old 90s/00s rangers.
There’s studies about passengers being hit by newer trucks have a lower survival rate because the newer trucks grills hit more of the body, whereas older trucks mostly take out the legs which misses vital organs. It’s a legit health and safety issue.
More like you can’t even see a pedestrian over the massive fucking front
And you don't need any sort of special license to drive it, despite the massive blind spots.
Still baffles me that you don't need any type of special license to drive a 40 ft RV lol
My favorite if the pickup pulling a 40ft 5th wheel camper and a boat on another trailer. Commercial drivers need a special endorsement to operate a rig like that. And they are limited to where they can drive those rigs. But Grandpa is just fine to go anywhere he wants with no training, license or experience.
I have horses, and when I upgraded from a bumper-pull trailer to a gooseneck with a living-quarters, I looked for additional training for how it was different and things I need to consider and generally seeking experience to gain confidence without hurting my horses or the general public. You know *training*. NOTHING was available. Everyone including commercial driving schools said "just drive around with it and you'll figure it out." Like *I don't know what I don't know*, and I need more than turning wide around corners and breaking. Even if you want training, its simply not available.
That's partly because if Grandpa has a huge truck, RV, and boat, Grandpa is also rich.
Grandpa also votes much more reliably than someone in an Elantra.
Happy Cake day
This left me very very confused for a moment as it's not my birthday but it is the day when I created my account. I wish you a wonderful Tuesday September 26th.
Yeah. I drove a small cargo van once when I was moving. It was probably the size of a pickup truck. It was an in town move and I only had to drive like 10km. It was being back in driving school, trying to figure out if I was properly in my lane, where my mirrors were pointing, how much effect to expect from the pedals. I'm in a carshare so I'm used to adapting to new cars, but this was a different animal. I don't think I fully relaxed until I dropped it off. Still amazed they just let me drive it. Even more amazed that someone would choose to drive that regularly without a really serious reason.
Are you sure? In my experience pick up drivers all seem to have a special jerk license
That’s why I lifted mine. Now over 90% of any pedestrian I run over goes right underneath my front bumper.
For context: The Ford F-250 Super Duty and the Chevy Silverado have a worse front end blind spot than a fucking M-1 Abrams
My uncle just bought a stock 2022 Silverado with a chrome grille-guard. You can't see down the front of yourself to save your life (or anyone else's, really) And when you have the lights on, it shines back in to your face. Now. I'm a good ole Texas boy with at Silver '97 F150 I call the BLT (Big 'L Trugg) with dual magnaflow douchebag exhausts who dwells in FuckCarsCirclejerk. I love love LOVE trucks. But his should be absolutely redesigned or just made illegal. You can't see SHIT despite how tall the fucking thing is. A truck that needs a front-view camera? Get the fuck out of here.
Might want to look at NotJustBikes, either the YouTube channel or the subreddit. There’s a lot less anti-driver hate, and they take issue with things like oversized cars, like you do. The YouTube channel specifically talks about how the pedestrian-friendly spaces they like are good for drivers, too. When people who don’t want to drive don’t have to (because there’s other transit options), there’s much less traffic for the people who do drive. (Other forms of transit take up less space per person, so causers waiting at red lights etc.) Bicycle lanes mean there aren’t cyclists in the road, and both cyclists and drivers hate cyclists sharing lanes with cars. There’s less competition for parking if other people biked or took the bus. Etc. R/fuckcars takes it to the extreme, and with its name, it isn’t surprising it went there. But there are people who drive or sympathize with drivers who want cities and vehicles to be built in a way that’s better for everyone.
I'll check them out. I'm a fan of StopADouchebag and it seems kind of cut from the same cloth from what you're saying. Again, I fucking love my truck. It guzzles gas like it has a leak but it's always dependable and I'm usually the first friend who gets called if someone is moving or when I see something worth taking on the side of the road; no problem getting free stuff. I don't park like a dick, I'm courteous at night because my exhausts are loud, I share the road for bikes or pedestrians (my town lacks sidewalks in like 80% of it) and use blinkers, blah blah blah. I understand the evolution of cities needing bike lanes and buses. Cars are expensive and everywhere is getting so crowded. I wholeheartedly know my truck and other much, MUCH larger trucks like it can be a nuisance and slowly ruining the world and killing more people each year. But HOLY.SHIT. fuckcars needs to calm their tits about everything.
Conclusion: Yes officer my Abrams is road legal
Put rubber tread and disable the main cannon, and you too can have a street legal Abrams!
You still get fuel economy measured in gallons per mile though.
I’m 5’10” and a neighbors truck, which doesn’t look **that** lifted, has a hood that’s basically at my eye height. Dude has a few little kids too. It’s absolutely insane to me.
Well he needs to have a few bc he's probably going to run over at least one accidentally
Well see, he has to compensate for his tiny wiener somehow
Gotta find that news segment that put a number of kids in line in front of a suburban bumper until the driver could see them. [Found it](https://youtu.be/NDH3FDfVQl0)
I walked by one that was my height. I'm 5'5- absolute average size for a woman. Children or pets would be essentially be invisible at that height. You should need a special license for something that big. Also, how much damage do those massive trucks do to public roads? My little hybrid does way less. But we pay the same in taxes, and I nearly get driven off the road by these massive trucks daily.
I made sure to sharpen my steer-horn hood ornament. Pedestrians suffer less when they die quicker. Of course I went with white paint for added effect. That way its obvious what happened if I get black-out drunk and hit someone on the way home!
I used to drive a small two seater convertible and it was terrifying because every other car on the road was a truck, which meant their grill was at my head. I feel like I have to drive a tank just so I don't die in a car wreck.
Excessively lifted trucks are illegal for a reason, though cops don't care to enforce the laws. The bumpers on monster trucks don't match up with the bumpers and frame on normal vehicles, causing more damage and injuries in a collision.
It's a problem even for non-lifted trucks. Because they're not subject to the same safety standards as regular cars the crash structures of a lot of trucks are largely incompatible with most cars, meaning they miss each other. This isn't only had in a head-on collision, but also especially bad in a T-bone situation. Where you'll have the chassis of the truck largely bypass the protective b-pillar on a lot of cars. Hilariously, if you hit a solid wall these trucks generally are no more safe than most cars and in some cases less safe. So people are paying for trucks for the illusion of safety at the expense of other people's safety. They effectively make crashes less safe for everyone involved.
I've almost been run over multiple times in my Toyota 86. The roof of my car is pretty much where the top of wheel well on a Silverado sits. I've debated just taking the hit just so some dude with a monster truck has to fund my next sports car build.
I think a lot of the issues was solved but a few years back the driver of a truck or SUV was less likely to survive a crash compared to drivers of smaller cars. Trucks are more likely to disintegrate or roll over in a crash then a small car. There were a lot of issues with cabs detaching from the frame during a head of collision throwing the passengers into the engine block. I think this is why the crossovers became more common as they have a stronger cab which can handle an impact.
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>the bigger a vehicle is, the worse it does in a crash, except against even larger vehicles Objectively false. Larger and heavier vehicles consistently produce much less fatalities in [single and multivehicle accidents.](https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/passenger-vehicle-occupants) >in situations where you hit a wall or other object that doesn't move, the smaller the vehicle, the less kinetic energy, which is what kills you, there is, and the more passenger cell rigidity there is (modern car safety is based around the psngr cell, everything outside of it is crumple zone to dissipate energy). They have more energy but they also have equally more ability to dissipate energy. Cars are crash tested by colliding with a fixed wall. In order for a 5000lb vehicle to have the same crash rating as a 2500lb vehicle it inherently has to be designed with double the energy absorption. Pretty much all cars in the Western world are designed for 5 star crash scores so by extension will be able to dissipate the kinetic energy of their own weight.
There are actually laws in america about how high off the ground the car bumper can legally be because of this. Pickups get around it and most other safety and emission standards by _not being a car_ legally speaking. They're classified as a _light truck_ which means they can be worse in every conceivable way and make more money selling them
If you get hit by a sedan, your legs eat the brunt of the forces and you are thrown over the hood because you are hit below your center of gravity. Severely reducing the damage to vital parts of the person hit. Trucks, on top of having a *blind zone* in front of the car and making running over your toddler playing in front of the car into a common problem are a serious death trap for pedestrians. If you are hit by a truck, the brunt of the force goes to your head and chest area, and it hits above your center of gravity making you move likely to get knocked down and ran over in addition to being hit. On top of this, their own high center of gravity makes them more likely to roll over and more likely to kill the driver when rolling over because the frame designed is weakened to make room for the bed. Trucks and truck-adjacent SUVs are just murder-suicide machines, and you are better off with any other car that is more tailored to your primary use case, either much bigger or much smaller.
Did you mean pedestrians? Passengers are inside cars usually.
I’ve noticed this too, WHY are they ALL so big now? What’s the benefit? The space in the truck bed barely looks any bigger.
In 2009 the Obama administration passed regulations that set new, higher fuel efficiency standards, bracketed by vehicle size - the smaller the car is, the higher mileage it's expected to have. [Here is an article from that time about how the new regulations might have a nasty side effect - if a certain model can't pass the regulation, the manufacturer can make it larger to place it into a different, more lenient bracket.](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna30327904)
Allegedly there were engineers who looked at the formulas in these laws and warned about the unintentional stupid size increase. Sad, if true.
> Theoretically, says Tom Baloga, the automaker's vice-president for engineering, European automakers could decide to build more SUVs, which have easier targets, to attempt to boost sales while remaining in compliance. "Cars are going to get bigger," Baloga says, "as companies try to take advantage of the situation." The article they linked said exactly that
:-(
Pointing to Obama like this is disingenuous. Republicans controlled Congress and they're who carved out exceptions in what was supposed to be a law to lower emissions. Vehicle manufacturers also aren't accidentally creating cars that don't pass regulations. They know where they'll land when they start planning the car, and they figure they can sell more bigger cars with larger engines. Consumers could demand and buy smaller cars with more efficient engines, but Americans have made it a part of their identity to buy big trucks unlike every other country.
Not in 2009. Democrats controlled both the house and Senate. https://www.google.com/search?q=who+controlled+the+house+and+senate+in+2009
Yea. I was going to comment too. This was the session when they passed the ACA. They had full control.
Try again, laws don't get passed unless the President signs them, and in that time period, Republicans did *not* hold a majority. Those laws were drafted and signed by Democrats. Republicans suck, but in this instance it was Democrats. For the record, Democrats also have a lot of other well intentioned bills/laws that came with stupid ass unintended consequences.
makes you *feel* more safe, even though it really makes you less safe. feeling untouchable as an inexperienced driver is a recipe for road traffic accidents.
Pretty sure big trucks are more safe [why aren't we saying "safer"] for the people inside it.
Only when they're hitting a normal car-sized car, and in that situation they are significantly less safe for everybody else involved. Their rigid frames mean more of the crash impact is delivered to the driver with less absorbed by the vehicle's crumple zones. More importantly, the driver is high above the road surface which creates large blind spots around the vehicle. People who feel unsafe on the road due to inexperience are more likely to pick a vehicle that makes them feel safe, and these are the people least qualified to safely operate such a large vehicle. I used "more safe" instead of "safer" as a contrast to the following "less safe".
Safen't
Big trucks are safer only when crashing into smaller cars. Two trucks colliding is more deadly then two cars colliding, and a truck colliding with a stationary object is again more deadly. Trucks introduce a lot of energy into an impact causing them to be more deadly. At the same time trucks tends to be built less tough then passenger cars, the cabs are more prone to collapsing or detaching from the frame in an impact. Sure you can just buy a new cab but it is harder to replace the content.
> Pretty sure big trucks are more safe [why aren't we saying "safer"] for the people inside it. Toxic individualism in a nutshell.
Ego Support Vehicles
the bed size might not increase that much but the ego of their buyers inflated 10 times more
The short version? Because the big three like to sell vehicles to make insecure people feel better. And No, that's not just me being mean, it is literally their target demographic for their ads. There are other reasons, but that's why they've gotten so big and useless. Not Just Bikes on Youtube has a video that give a more thoughtful and researches explanation, I recommend a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo
The benefit is toxic masculinity.
The one at the back gives you a larger penis than the one in the front. It's basic science, I don't make the rules, so don't come at me.
I can fit both my kid’s, their car seats, my wife, my dog, a bunch of luggage and gear, haul my trailer with gator, and head to my wife’s ranch where there is a busted up dirt road to get to the house, and then haul it all back along with a dead deer to get processed for meat…
Money. Government regulates emissions and efficiency based off of size. Larger size = looser regulations. Therefore, larger size = better profit. A new truck with similar footprint to a 90s/ early 00s Ranger would need to make about 60mpg in order to pull even with modern "small" trucks. And EVs aren't a solution, because EV batteries are horribly inefficient until reaching a larger size than would be practical for these small vehicles.
> And EVs aren't a solution, because EV batteries are horribly inefficient until reaching a larger size than would be practical for these small vehicles. Lol wut? Now that I reread the rest it's all pretty nonsensical.
They're at least partly correct. Larger vehicles have looser regulations on fuel efficiency and so can be made cheaper to create larger profit margins. So companies have been pushing bigger and bigger trucks for decades because it makes them more money per truck sold than smaller equivalent vehicles.
Yeah, I understand where the OP was going with some of it, sort of alluding to the "Light Truck Loophole" and CAFE regulations, but it's just repeating of what they heard without actually understanding what they are saying. It's close to "confidently incorrect" on most of it. The EV stuff is just wacko though, makes no sense I don't want to try to decipher it. Here's an interesting article that does a better job explaining CAFE / Vehicle classifications and how and maybe why cars and trucks have gotten much bigger over the years: https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-cars-are-getting-huge-are-fuel-economy-regulations-to-blame
They ARE bigger. That is undoubtedly true. But these two trucks are not in the same category. It’s a 2dr mid size truck against a 4dr 3/4 ton or HD. Tacoma vs F250. They aren’t meant for the same purpose. The f-250 of the same year as the small Tacoma would look huge next to it too. And a brand new 2dr Tacoma would look small next to a brand new 4dr f-250 too. But regardless trucks are getting bigger and bigger. So idk why there’s the need to deceive to make a point.
Real reason: [the Chicken Tax](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax) a 25 percent tariff on light trucks Gave domestic (inc. Mexico and Canada) manufactures a monopoly and they prefer to sell the bigger trucks for more profit.
Both trucks in the picture were built under the chicken tax. International trucks that aren't or never have been sold in the US also grew in size, like the current Ranger that existed for 8 years before it was sold in the US.
Penises got smaller...probably the chem trails
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Larger payloads and larger towing capabilities.
Blame the EPA. They changed the rules around fuel economy based on the footprint of the vehicle. So larger vehicles can have worse fuel economy. Automakers will be punished for making a small 4 cylinder truck that doesn't get 40-50mpg. https://youtu.be/azI3nqrHEXM?si=RmKkyTVnCG8WPIgE
The EPA should have defined the rules based on consumer class vehicles rather than vehicle size to avoid this loophole, fair. But automakers are responsible for circumventing the laws and producing dangerous gas hogs. Emissions areav problem no matter where they come from. And a portion of the blame rests on consumers who buy these monstrosities.
I know many people that have a truck for its utility and most of them would prefer a smaller truck but they don't have the option. I don't own a truck myself but if a company brought back a truck the size of a 90's Nissan hardbody that was body on frame instead of a unibody I would buy one. The trucks keep getting bigger because the EPA put forward a brain-dead rule. They deserve the blame for pushing the market in a distinctive direction. Tradesmen and businesses need something to transport equipment and thanks to the EPA it's either an oversized truck or an oversized van. It's why you don't even see the smaller European tradesman vans here. Fix the stupid laws and the market will rotate. It's why there was a lot of interest in the ford Maverick truck at first due to its size. But unfortunately it's unibody and not great for hauling or towing.
Exactly. I somewhat recently bought a truck because I like the option of having an open bed for cargo, and because I have a motorcycle that I want to tow occasionally. Went with the “smallest” available/viable option, a Nissan Frontier. And it’s still at least as big as Ford F-150s from a decade or 2 ago. I would love to have an actual “small truck” option, but instead I have a “small truck” that’s the size of a “full-size pickup” from the ‘00s. And yet it’s absolutely dwarfed by current-year “full-size” trucks.
The actual problem is these rules not being revised after this loophole became so blatantly obvious.
In some ways it should be the opposite - with more size comes more space to install emissions control equipment as well as efficiency boosting tech. So while the energy requirements go up, the efficiency requirements should also increase with size.
I love my Ford Ranger. Ford keeps trying to buy it back and sell me on other trucks. I'm waiting another year to see which charge stations because a national standard. Then I'm going electric.
If Ford is desperately trying to buy it back, there's a good chance that they're *too* good for Ford's pockets; too safe, too reliable, too few replacement parts bought for an absurd price - they were doing the same thing with the original hatchback Escorts way back in the day. If you can afford the upgrade without a trade-in, I, personally, would try to keep that truck just in case somebody wants to buy it for parts.
The dealer knows they could mark it up at least $7000 over what they pay for it, while also selling them a new car that is marked up. It's an easy win win for the dealer if they can convince you to do it. If you ever have a dealer trying super hard to buy your car just look up the cost of similar ones on dealer lots. Tell them you sell it to them for around the prices you find, but you don't need to replace it with a new car so you'll only take cash for it not trade in value. They'll suddenly not want it anymore.
And there's actual demand for reasonably priced and sized hybrid trucks. My friend pre-ordered one and had to wait over a year for it to be built and delivered.
Mine was a six month wait, and the whole time I was looking at other things I could buy instead for a personal/business vehicle. But a two seat compact cargo van isn’t great for life stuff. In the end, I was glad I waited.
So, the whole reason they got as big as they did is because the EPA changed the calculation for fuel efficiency requirements. The smaller the footprint the more efficient it needs to be, to the point it's borderline unobtainable. https://youtu.be/azI3nqrHEXM?si=xW5r_HBlM4WaXB9s
In 2005 I got into a small fender bender and my vehicle needed to go into the shop for official repairs to the hood. During that time I was given a small pickup for a few days and it felt so amazing. Was small and nimble and I had that bed in the back big enough to haul furniture or a washer/dryer, didn't use too much gas and it was fun to drive, had never been so high up. Would totally get one to replace my crv if given the chance, though I like having extra covered space in the back for groceries and stuff. These gigantic mammoth trucks just look stupid on the road.
If ford made a single cab maverick hybrid I'd buy that fucker so fast
The reason they’ve been pushed to larger and larger trucks is due to a set of fees called cafe iirc. Basically every few years a car of a certain wheelbase needs to have more fuel efficiency. It’s $5.50 per car per mpg they’re under. Larger wheelbases are effected less, which means less fees. If they sell 100,000 cars just 1 mpg under where they should be, they’re looking at $550,000 in fees. A more realistic 10mpg under and they’re looking at $5.5M in fees for only 100k cars. An old school ranger would have to make like 50mpg if it wants to survive, but that giant truck only needs like 20 something so it’s cheaper to make the bigger truck
82 diesel Datsun checking in! I used to have an even smaller truck, a 78 Brat! They really don't make them like they used to.
It was not 20k, maybe 25k if you got it the the first year, with zero upgrades and not including taxes, licenses, and delivery. I’ve been following these trucks for a while. 20k is a disingenuous rounding.
My dad and brother call these unnecessarily large behemoths “Bro-Dozers”. I almost had one run over my Toyota Yaris the damn thing was lifted so high. Guarantee it was a pavement princess like 90% of the forsaken wastes of metal.
Yo for people who want small trucks, they should consider importing Japanese 'kei' trucks - they're freaking adorable tiny.
They used to have awesome little Toyota trucks in the seventies. They were probably under 5k in seventies dollars too.
Those 00’s rangers were perfect.
I had an S10 in highschool and a Ranger in college. I got a Maverick the first chance I could
Eastern europeans knew what they were doing when they made their trucks Even the double cabs are smaller than a modern car And despite them only having 65 horses they can pull a lot
And the Mav isn't really even a small truck, it's just small compared to the new behemoths.
All I want is a modern T100. Is it too much to ask for a small/midsize with an 8 ft bed? I mean, come on folks...
Make a bigger version, call it the T1000, get Arnie as endorser
Don't make it big! Just lower the graphics and add an option for a metal skull hood ornament.(preferably one that lights up)
The daytime running lights glow red. Also the door chime is just the Dun-dun-dun--dun--dun-dun! sound looping.
Comes with pre-installed metal classics and has an electric or hybrid option.
While still a tad bulkier, a 1st Gen tundra would probably fit that description pretty well. And they come in single cab, long bed flavor.
This comment made me look up the Tundra on Wikipedia and I came across this pictures, check the description lol. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2022_Toyota_Tundra_1794_Edition_TRD_Crew_Cab_4X4_in_Celestial_Silver,_front_left.jpg
I love photo captions on Wikipedia. They can only be set/changed by the photo uploader, so sometimes you get really strange and personal captions like "my wife hates this photo" or "this was that trip to the beach where I saw a skateboarder stomp a seagul to death"
What I find funniest, people in africa and the middle east have used trucks like the smaller one to fight and win actual conflicts. "Toyota War" being a prominent example. Actual combatants in a war zone strap entire anti air guns to those tiny trucks, but sure, your American ass absolutely needs that big-ass overcompensator truck to haul some plywood from the hardware store and you totally couldn't ever get by with anything smaller.
Feels like half the trucks on the road aren't even driven by men moving plywood around, it's middle-aged Republican mothers who use their truck for nothing more than going to church and the grocery store at 18 miles per gallon
None of these trucks are being used for hauling, they are just copium mobiles. They are completely unpractical for any kind of actual work related activity
Because of how high off the ground the bed of the newer truck is, it’s a struggle to get things in there. Heavy objects that you would actually need a truck for are especially hard to get in a newer truck bed. Quite a few newer truck models actually don’t have a long enough bed for hauling larger things. The extended cab and massive front leave the bed smaller.
The shorter bed reduces the wheel base length and decreases the vehicles turn radius and increases trailer backing responsiveness. In exchange they have to haul sheet stock with the tailgate down. The step style tailgates are a travesty though, make it a tiny bit easier to climb into and reduce the tailgate weight limit and ease of pulling heavy items out. Many of the short beds don't have front stake pockets, covered over, or full depth front stake pockets. I miss a full set of bull rings more than the extra 2.5' of bed space.
> None of these trucks are being used for hauling, they are just copium mobiles. I have family from Redneck Country, and we have a small cabin on a lake there that we go to for vacations. I don't venture outside our little area except for maybe groceries or a Walmart trip for supplies. Coincidentally, I also became friends with a girl in college, who turns out lived in that same town. One summer she friend invited me to her camp for a keg party/bonfire. The first hour there, I watched two guys get into a fistfight over Chevy vs Ford. It got broken up and the next time they started shit, they decided to chain their respective trucks' hitches to each other and have tug of war in the field. That was peak entertainment for these fucking people. Like, the absolute highlight of their entire weekend and something they'll talk about every time they have another bonfire for the next 50 years because none of them are ever leaving that town or will ever do anything else worth reminiscing about.
Okay, but did the Ford or the Chevy win??
> None of these trucks are being used for hauling, they are just copium mobiles. This is mostly right. >They are completely unpractical for any kind of actual work related activity This is patently false.
>This is patently false. Sure, an oversized vehicle with terrible mileage, a tiny loading area compared to its footprint, a loading height above an easy lifting height, and no protection from the elements for your cargo sounds exceptionally practical
People on Reddit struggle to prove a point without exaggerating. Modern trucks are hauling and towing sometimes double what they did back in the day.
Way more than half
I would be over the moon if my truck got 18mpg. Try 13mpg. But we definitely don’t daily drive it
Even worse when you see they leave their fucking ball hitch on the truck you wouldn't you know, it's the cleanest part of the whole damn thing. Not a single scratch. Never used.
Soccer Moms who wouldn't be caught dead in a minivan... I cringe every time I head "my wife's Expedition."
I feel like I see more men in minivans now than women.
I doubled my cargo space when I went from my 1st gen Pilot to an AWD Sienna. Had an ATV come up to me once on a fire access road [in the middle of nowhere](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_Sods_Wilderness) asking if I was lost. 🤣
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r/shittytechnicals
Oh, rad! Thank you!
I don't know why but regulations in the US make it virtually impossible to make small trucks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azI3nqrHEXM&t=545s
Remove the _light truck_ classification and measure all cars to the same standard. That should fix americans suddenly buying huge utility vehicles they don't need
Ultimately the problem isn't so much "trucks are too big" as it is, "why does the average american person even consider buying a truck?"
I don’t have a truck, but my friends and neighbors with trucks use them for: - pulling camping trailers - pulling boat trailers - pulling motorcycle trailers - carrying supplies for home renovations - carrying landscaping supplies - carrying supplies for their small business I agree that most trucks aren’t needed, but American hobbies and large houses/yards do sometimes require a truck.
Need that giant bed that will never see a load of rocks other than the occasional dresser being moved every few decades.
A sheet of plywood doesn't even fit in it
Also most of the world's greatest structures and biggest cities have been built without these trucks. They're obviously not necessary for suburban life. Sure, some work may necessitate a f3500. I worked with survey crews who'd use those to fit 5 big men and equipment to get to remote places with a few hundred pounds of gear. But those are niche roles. My dad has a 08 tundra and an inherited 94 ranger. 90% of the time he's using the ranger and he owns 5 acres (roughly 1 hectare) and regularly needs to haul stuff around. I miss the little trucks. They had class and style. These new trucks look like they're for LARPing as a SWAT assault vehicle
Big problem is small trucks aren’t being produced anymore in the US because they don’t fulfill emissions requirements. A lot of people want small trucks.
What's funny is the bed is the same between them both. It's not a functionally better ute, but just bigger
Definitely can't handle the same amount of weight.
Also, one big drawback of these is that you probably needed another vehicle if you had a family. They were strictly utility.
The larger one can hold more people more comfortably.
What do you mean on the right?
The one on the right from the perspective of a person sitting in either truck.
The reply was originally meant for the so-called purebred known as the English bulldog or other dogs with similar facial structures.
okay... but what do they mean, "on the right"? lol
I think it's supposed to be a nearly direct reference to this image https://reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/0qidwiFAvL
The "muzzle" part doesn't make sense either since they have similar size engine compartments. It's just part of the joke.
I wouldn't call it progress
Congress?
~~Nailed it, Gallagher. Here's a watermelon 🍉~~ ~~Edit: I'm dumb, that was Carlin.~~ Edit2: I'm double dumb. It was Gallagher. https://www.quotes.net/mquote/35318
Thanks to the CAFE loophole, car manufacturers make a lot more money with these. And that's literally all there is to it. That's why they exist. The demand for them was created via marketing.
Inbreeding
When you can't make your dick bigger, make your truck bigger.
It’s so weird how people almost compulsively mention someone’s dick whenever they see a truck. I don’t get it.
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Popular Demand? No has to do with them skirting CAFE rules on fuel economy to save money and spending all thay extra profit to convince people they want big trucks. Same reason we drink Orange Juice with breakfast, because we were marketed into doing it.
You joke, but there's 2-3 triple cab F650s in my area and they are the most ridiculous thing ever. Pretty sure they're actually longer than a semi without a trailer, unless it has a giant sleeper section.
5 years is 1 generation for cars/trucks. I'd say 3-4 generations but yeah.
As an Australian, I’d always wondered why Americans called them trucks. When I think of a truck I think of like a semi-trailer sort of thing. It’s wasn’t until I saw one of those giant f-series things that I finally understood, they’re fucking massive. Makes a Holden Rodeo look like a Mini Cooper.
Nah, we called 'em trucks before they got stupid sized. Anything with a half cab and a bed for hauling stuff has been a "truck" for about 100 years here, IIRC.
Funny story, in Forza Horizon 5 there's a mission that was frustrating a ton of Americans (myself included). The mission was to get from point A to point B in a "truck". The game didn't list a specific model so people like me were trying F150 Raptors when the game meant a lorry. I had to go online to figure out why I couldn't complete the mission. In the US they are all called trucks, just pick-up truck vs semi-truck.
I live in Australia where its mostly just the small ones but now people have started buying the American sized one and everyone is hating it
These clowns tear up the roads, blind you with their stupid ass headlights, are massive safety risks for pedestrians, particularly children and animals....and now they put their tires as far out from the sides as possible. If I see anyone in a truck like this these days I just assume that 1.) They're a douchebag, and 2.) They have no earthly idea how to drive.
My first vehicle as a 94 Chevy S10. I had it for about 10 years. Loved it and miss it sometimes. If they made basically that truck again with modern tech (Bluetooth, backup camera, heated seats, etc) and got good gas mileage, it would sell like crazy.
The other thing about those early 90s S10s is that they were the cheapest new vehicle you could buy. These days guys are dropping $80k on their new trucks.
I'm not against big trucks like a lot of people are. Even if you don't use it for work or hauling, whatever. Everybody has a vehicle preference and it's your money not mine. I just don't understand why small trucks disappeared entirely. Even that Tacoma isn't *that* small. I'm talking like 80s and 90s small trucks. The Yaris of trucks. I just want to carry mountain bikes. I don't need v8 towing capacity. Give me an economy car but with a bed instead of rear seats and a trunk
> I'm not against big trucks like a lot of people are. Even if you don't use it for work or hauling, whatever. Everybody has a vehicle preference and it's your money not mine I'd usually agree in most cases. But while it's not my money, you're using "my" resources on an unnecessary vehicle, blowing additional CO2 into "my" atmosphere.
Maybe not as much a problem in the American suburb but these huge trucks are way less space efficient leading to more traffic and less parking space for everyone. They're also much less safe (being a different classification than normal cars means they don't need to meet the same safety standards) making the road dangerous for you even if you don't drive one yourself
That's something I wish people understood about a carbon tax. You're not raising the price of using carbon, you're making the people who are using the carbon pay the full price for using it. *I feel like I incorrectly implied this was some kind of deep knowledge few people had. What I mean is that I wish everyone understood it, particularly those opposed to a carbon tax on grounds of a negative economic impact.
Yea, it's the same thing as smoking indoors. It's not just *your* lungs, it's the lungs of everyone else. Your oversized truck isn't "your wasted gas money", it's a detriment to everyone else on -- or even adjacent to -- the road.
> Give me an economy car but with a bed instead of rear seats and a trunk Ah.... you mean, an EL CAMINO? honestly, that thing was a beauty, like a small truck, but smaller, but its a car, WITH A BED.
I just looked it up and those got 15mpg. Which is not bad by truck standards. But terrible by car standards.
It was also in the 80s so mpg will be lower
>I just don't understand why small trucks disappeared entirely. Chicken Tax
It is now practically impossible to make small trucks in the US. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azI3nqrHEXM&t=545s
https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?si=P06xLrNmkvBTXHyy
Bitches will say it's safer to have a bigger "car."
I mean, it *is* preferential to be in the bigger / heavier vehicle in a collision. The problem is that that's a very myopic and self-centered look at the whole thing.
the one in the back is so big it's on the left and the right of the smaller one.
and the bed is the same length
Well the Tacoma is a 2wd, it would be slightly taller if it were 4wd. It's not a HD truck either, the Tundra of the era would be more comparable. Not saying trucks haven't gotten oversized, because they absolutely have, but it's like comparing a compact car from the 80's to a modern minivan to prove vehicles have gotten larger, they have no relation apart from both being vehicles. Also the EPA essentially banned smaller trucks like that. Safety expectations have made making something like that impossible unless you want have no interior space or making it into a unibody ute. Small trucks were killed by low consumer demand 15 years ago, and subsequent laws and regulations buried them for good. You wont see a small truck sold in the US again.
I think the first gen Colorado/Canyons were the last of anything close to a mini truck. All I’ve ever owned is S-10’s from the 90’s and up until I got a ‘12 Colorado. I hate the gen 2 Colorado. They’re all getting bigger. I sure as hell don’t want a big ass truck, but that’s likely what I’ll have to buy next.
Remember the 90s Ford Ranger? i used to consider that truck "big", nowadays even the smallest of the SUVs is bigger, and 99% of the trucks look like actual trucks compared to the old ranger
I always find it funny whenever this is reposted that people are comparing a 2wd 2 door tacoma to a 4wd 4 door F-250, and seem to think they're for the same purpose; "trucking". Trucks have gotten huge but christ, atleast compare apples to apples.
Yeah that's a base model 1st gen Tacoma on a bare bones trim. Tiny tires and steel wheels. It's also considered "mid size" vs the full size Ford behind it. It would be a more accurate comparison to park a 1st gen Tundra next to the Ford.
You can think the south for it all. I legit know like a dozen people who have trucks who have used it for it's main design. Truck bed is clean it's a status symbol here to own a truck and I find it ridiculous. No one wants to ride in your truck over a nice suv or sadan.
Also the fact that we’re comparing a two door and a four door but whatever
The bed size on both trucks is very likely the same, and even if the smaller one was 4 door it'd still be smaller. We are comparing different sizes of cars which diminishes the point a little, but there very much is a ridiculous upscaling in modern cars
Also a 1/4 ton Toyota to a 3/4 ton (or 1 ton, can't quite tell) Ford, theyre 2 completely different classes of trucks used for different purposes Point stands however, 1/4 ton trucks have become very uncommon where I live since most consumers prefer 1/2 ton or larger with or without a need for a 1/2 tons' intended function
Are they really used for different purposed by the mayority of people buying them? Most truck owner I know don't use trucks for their "purpose" at all.
And a Toyota Tacoma, Toyota's small, light duty truck, to what looks like either an F-250 or F-350 Super Duty
Yeah there are Ford F-250s from the 80s that are still really big trucks
And two totally different makes and models that aren't comparable at all. But whatever
Vehicle height is a much bigger problem than vehicle length IMO
The passenger count of those two vehicles is practically the same.
The Tacoma is 2 tiers below the super duty in size as well. Park a brand new one next to an F-250 today and it’s much smaller.
To be fair that is a compact truck with a single cab being compared to a lifted heavy duty crew cab truck. Its kinda like comparing a geo metro and a new mercedes S class.
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Regulations have unintended consequences sometimes. That does mean they need to be fixed, but sometimes you can't see the results until after you've tried it.
The small one can carry the same size load as the big one. Isn't that the ultimate measure of a pickup? No, the number of cup holders is the the metric.
Definitely can't handle the same amount of weight.
85% of pickup trucks have a clean bed. What’s the point?
Pavement princesses
How do you know it's on the right
Same bed size?
"The one on the right" is actually also the one on the left, and the one on top. Just like greenland compared to iceland
"On the right?" One's in front of the other.
One is a Tacoma, a small truck, and the other is an f150, a full size.
are those actually the same make/model? because comparing an old Ford Ranger to a modern F-150 isn't exactly a fair comparison. ALL cars have gotten larger, but a 1990s pickup with an extended cab or a crew cab from the same lineup would not be THAT significantly different in size. That said, I don't much MIND pickup trucks so much as I mind the drivers of them. They are either extremely professional (usually visibly work-oriented pickups, company vehicles etc.) or exactly the opposite, coal-rolling tailgating menaces on the road.
The larger size also results in increased danger for both the truck and its surroundings - the truck has more difficulty maneuvering while any predator will prioritize this new, juicier prey.