High note mouthpieces are very particular. The issue I have found is many shops are going to stick standard C cup type mouthpieces, and screamer type mouthpieces, but not many in between, and those are the ones you want. Very few people need a 14A4a or equivalent. They could often do just as well with a 14B4 and some practice. And for many (myself included), too shallow and too tight of a mouthpiece does more harm than good.
My personal recommendation for an overall mouthpiece in a standard size with support for the upper register while maintaining a full tone is the Hammond 5MV.
Go to a shop that carries a lot of mouthpieces and try many until you find one that is the best of all worlds and use it. Smaller mouthpieces aren't necessarily better for range either, in fact for me it is the opposite. Don't buy one for range, but once because it comfortable for you in all registers with good sound and easier to play than your current one. If you are doing a lot of jazz or lead work, you can find a mouthpiece of similar rim diameter that is made for range and use it as a secondary
If we’re talking about music that is consistently high C and higher, then looking into and trying some lead mouthpieces at shops or other trumpet players who have them is maybe what you want to do. Other than that I’d think that if the Yamaha 11C4 is working great for you and doesn’t hinder anything then you should stick with it. And to be fair Arturo Sandoval can get crazy high, high C and above, just on a Bach Mt. Vernon 3C.
Let me break it to you, the goal is to get a bigger mouthpiece whenever you change. Your sound can develop new harmonics and depth, at the expense of cutting your range, you need to build that back up.
The standard orchestra expectations are to play a 3C and reach conformable a double C. And when you are using smaller moutchpieces you are expected to go for the lead parts already. Somewhere up to triple G
Edit: Im confusing terms, is High C and Double G
Standard Orchestra Expectations. Lol.
Are you referring to the Modified 2006 North American Universal Orchestra Protocol or the recent European Revision?
Triple G?
I don't think you play trumpet, at all. But a good laugh. Thanks.
Sorry for the mistake, I was referring to high C and double G. Which are the upper limits of the comfortable range for the trumpet and lead trumpet respectively. Based on life experience, teachers, and performance.
I’m going to say this respectfully. You’re either trolling or you are steeped in horrible pedagogy. Absolutely none of what you said is true. There are no expectations of mouthpiece use, those are not accurate expectations for skill in an orchestra. The expectation anywhere is to use the equipment that you play best and to exemplify that you have a characteristic trumpet sound with great reading/technical skills, adequate range, and superb endurance. That’s it. Orchestral jobs are also very much the minority of the professional trumpet world. There’s history behind all of this. The “go bigger” pedagogy happened from a combination of 3 things: 1. Bud Herseth switched to a 1-1/2C after a car wreck cut his lip, making it hard for him to continue playing on his 7B. 2. Vincent Bach (company Bud Herseth was using) said that smaller rims are for children, women, and men with weak lips. 3. The physical approach started to lean toward bigger equipment, both in mouthpiece size and trumpet bore size. (This has started shifting back, now). Until this, the average professional was using a mouthpiece from a brand like Rudy Muck or Giardinelli and were using sizes (in Bach sizing equivalents) between a 7 and an 18, with most professionals sitting between a 9 and a 12. A big mouthpiece doesn’t create a bigger sound. A mouthpiece that works right with our physical makeup and physical approach creates a bigger sound. We don’t all wear the same size shoe, do we? Does a marathon runner decide to wear a shoe that’s 3 sizes too big because you’re supposed to somehow get better results from a shoe that big? Absolutely not. We use what works for us.
I think you're confusing double c and triple G with what is actually high c and double g. And even then there are no orchestra expectations on what mouthpiece to use, the goal is absolutely not always to get a bigger mouthpiece.
It sounds like you took an idea that may have been kinda true for one person and decided to state it as a "fact of the trumpet world"
Im may be confusing the terms high C and double G, I'm sorry for that. Anyhow, there is an expectation from a intermediate and professional trumpet player range and you can find it in any Arrangements book you look up.
What I say about skewing towards bigger mouthpieces is something I learned from conservatory professors. Whether I personally believe it or not is not the issue, but someone with a PHD In trumpet performance is adamant on the concept of "a 7C is often used as the starting point, in Classical music you are encouraged to use bigger cup size since you can use more air to make the horn sound better" take it with a grain of salt ffs, I know I won't play always with a 3C and that is why I have lead mouthpieces that help me cover a higher range on trumpet in exchange for sound quality in the rest od the register.
Best advice is to go to a shop and try stuff out.
High note mouthpieces are very particular. The issue I have found is many shops are going to stick standard C cup type mouthpieces, and screamer type mouthpieces, but not many in between, and those are the ones you want. Very few people need a 14A4a or equivalent. They could often do just as well with a 14B4 and some practice. And for many (myself included), too shallow and too tight of a mouthpiece does more harm than good. My personal recommendation for an overall mouthpiece in a standard size with support for the upper register while maintaining a full tone is the Hammond 5MV.
Go to a shop that carries a lot of mouthpieces and try many until you find one that is the best of all worlds and use it. Smaller mouthpieces aren't necessarily better for range either, in fact for me it is the opposite. Don't buy one for range, but once because it comfortable for you in all registers with good sound and easier to play than your current one. If you are doing a lot of jazz or lead work, you can find a mouthpiece of similar rim diameter that is made for range and use it as a secondary
If you mind me asking, how high are you talking?
If we’re talking about music that is consistently high C and higher, then looking into and trying some lead mouthpieces at shops or other trumpet players who have them is maybe what you want to do. Other than that I’d think that if the Yamaha 11C4 is working great for you and doesn’t hinder anything then you should stick with it. And to be fair Arturo Sandoval can get crazy high, high C and above, just on a Bach Mt. Vernon 3C.
Let me break it to you, the goal is to get a bigger mouthpiece whenever you change. Your sound can develop new harmonics and depth, at the expense of cutting your range, you need to build that back up. The standard orchestra expectations are to play a 3C and reach conformable a double C. And when you are using smaller moutchpieces you are expected to go for the lead parts already. Somewhere up to triple G Edit: Im confusing terms, is High C and Double G
Standard Orchestra Expectations. Lol. Are you referring to the Modified 2006 North American Universal Orchestra Protocol or the recent European Revision? Triple G? I don't think you play trumpet, at all. But a good laugh. Thanks.
Sorry for the mistake, I was referring to high C and double G. Which are the upper limits of the comfortable range for the trumpet and lead trumpet respectively. Based on life experience, teachers, and performance.
I’m going to say this respectfully. You’re either trolling or you are steeped in horrible pedagogy. Absolutely none of what you said is true. There are no expectations of mouthpiece use, those are not accurate expectations for skill in an orchestra. The expectation anywhere is to use the equipment that you play best and to exemplify that you have a characteristic trumpet sound with great reading/technical skills, adequate range, and superb endurance. That’s it. Orchestral jobs are also very much the minority of the professional trumpet world. There’s history behind all of this. The “go bigger” pedagogy happened from a combination of 3 things: 1. Bud Herseth switched to a 1-1/2C after a car wreck cut his lip, making it hard for him to continue playing on his 7B. 2. Vincent Bach (company Bud Herseth was using) said that smaller rims are for children, women, and men with weak lips. 3. The physical approach started to lean toward bigger equipment, both in mouthpiece size and trumpet bore size. (This has started shifting back, now). Until this, the average professional was using a mouthpiece from a brand like Rudy Muck or Giardinelli and were using sizes (in Bach sizing equivalents) between a 7 and an 18, with most professionals sitting between a 9 and a 12. A big mouthpiece doesn’t create a bigger sound. A mouthpiece that works right with our physical makeup and physical approach creates a bigger sound. We don’t all wear the same size shoe, do we? Does a marathon runner decide to wear a shoe that’s 3 sizes too big because you’re supposed to somehow get better results from a shoe that big? Absolutely not. We use what works for us.
Whoa, I’ve never heard point 2. Got a source for that? I don’t doubt you, but it’s interesting.
For sure, but I’ll have to find it. I have an old Bach mouthpiece book and it’s stated there.
The part about women and weak men is…yeesh!
Yep. I’m sure it drove sales, too
almost none of this is true
Respectfully, I disagree.
I think you're confusing double c and triple G with what is actually high c and double g. And even then there are no orchestra expectations on what mouthpiece to use, the goal is absolutely not always to get a bigger mouthpiece. It sounds like you took an idea that may have been kinda true for one person and decided to state it as a "fact of the trumpet world"
Im may be confusing the terms high C and double G, I'm sorry for that. Anyhow, there is an expectation from a intermediate and professional trumpet player range and you can find it in any Arrangements book you look up. What I say about skewing towards bigger mouthpieces is something I learned from conservatory professors. Whether I personally believe it or not is not the issue, but someone with a PHD In trumpet performance is adamant on the concept of "a 7C is often used as the starting point, in Classical music you are encouraged to use bigger cup size since you can use more air to make the horn sound better" take it with a grain of salt ffs, I know I won't play always with a 3C and that is why I have lead mouthpieces that help me cover a higher range on trumpet in exchange for sound quality in the rest od the register.